What Olympic Gold Medalist Served on USS New Jersey?
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- Опубликовано: 20 окт 2024
- In this episode we're talking about what one particular sailor did while he was on board the battleship.
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The views and opinions expressed in this video are those of the content creator only and may not reflect the views and opinions of the Battleship New Jersey Museum & Memorial, the Home Port Alliance for the USS New Jersey, Inc., its staff, crew, or others. The research presented herein represents the most up-to-date scholarship available to us at the time of filming, but our understanding of the past is constantly evolving. This video is made for entertainment purposes only.
Admiral Lee, Olympic gold medal sharpshooter, who believed and put into practice the idea that battleship guns are simply bigger rifles, and should be just as accurate. Which IJN Kurishima learned the hard way.
They also learned the hard way why target fixation is a bad thing. There is no way a battleship should be allowed to mug you.
@@PeteOtton It should be noted that Japanese radar (those ships that had it) was at least a full generation behind Allied shipboard sets. The Japanese still depended on optical range finding where the USN had radar range finding in several ships, particularly the new battlewagons, cruisers and destroyers with it being retrofitted into ships as they came in for repair or refit at Pearl or the U.S. mainland. Night fighting for the Japanese and Allied ships without radar often meant either aiming for enemy muzzle flashes or turning on one's ship's searchlights.
@@robertf3479 Another issue, which Lee had to contend with was what if ships got out of position. He had had this problem at 2nd Savo when South Dakota went starboard of the sinking destroyers and the Washington lost track of her. Lee held firing on the Kirashima until he was certain that she wasn't. So Dak. Probably was just as well that So Dak lost power, if she had returned Kirashima's fire for more than a shot or two Lee might have fired on the wrong ship, or not fired at all.
I saw the video title, and immediately thought it referred to Admiral Willis “Ching” Lee. I did not realize he served on Battleship New Jersey.
As for my Olympic sport, it could’ve been pistol marksmanship. While in the navy I was trained by a marine sniper on how to shoot firearms, which helped get me the Expert Pistol Marksman Medal with a perfect score using the Beretta M9. I was only 1 of 4 out of 24 participants to get expert and the only non military policeman (MP) of the 4.
Drach’s video on Lee is fantastic!
I suspect all Drach fans knew that its about Adm Lee, when we read the title. Too bad there's no 16" naval gun event, in the Olympics. Want to see the back stop for that venue !
Lee was a highly practical man and had a strong respect for marksmanship in any form. He fully embraced radar directed gunnery and has his ships' gun crews drill well. I think one theory I subscribe to on why he declined to force a surface battle is this: Although he could, even though he was a Battleship man to the core, he recognized that a carrier strike would be the more effective weapon in that engagement.
you & dracinifel as a tag team....unbeatable 🤜👍🤛
Yes they are great team. Now if we could get them to play a game of Battleship on the Battleship.
@@deanieedwards8117 I think Drach has talked about playing World of Warships, and I bet the Battleship New Jersey could get a press account with the New Jersey. They could play some WoWs in a division of New Jersey on the New Jersey...
@@01taran To be fair, I wouldn't recommend starting playing WoWs to anyone at the moment. Even for experienced players it is difficult to grasp what is happening in random matches, and sheer impossible for starters to learn anything. At best, PvP matches are 'random stuff happens' and hope the poor player section on your team is
A) smart enough to not get themselves killed instantly
B) In trying to avoid A), run to a position where they cannot fire or be fired upon. Atleast by being in game they would remain a deterrent for the reds. Else they are just 'slaughter part II' and think they do 'good' because they where able to pick of 1 or 2 ships in the red team scramble for the remaining XP in 'slaughter part II' before the match timer runs out.
As result, gameplay has become very static and campy, and the main strategy remains to life until the poor sods on the red team have been given enough time to get themselves killed, while hopefully also successfully countering the better players. Any tactics that resemble 'playing' are sheer impossible without divisions, regardless of how good of a player you are. Single decent players will spend their time breaking their back trying to delay a total collapse, usually in ships not suitable for that task whatsoever.
I heartily recommend the Naval Institute Press biography "Battleship Commander," Lee's biography. Admiral Lee had a significant impact on long range battleship gunnery Navy wide through his research and revision of gunnery tables while at the Navy Department after (I believe) a tour as Gunnery Officer aboard (I believe) USS Pennsylvania. Every ship he served in benefited from his fascination with firearms from childhood.
We second that recommendation, here's a video we did with the author about that book: ruclips.net/user/liveSF3sd2g5-rY?feature=share
That was a wonderful episode Ryan. Thank you
Expert in everything from the.45 pistol all the way up to the 16 inch 50 caliber battleship gun. Definitely want the 16 in gun in the next Olympics.
Iowa is convieniently located for the next Olympiad!
@@richardtibbetts I guess it would have to be like pommel horse in gymnastics where everyone uses the same equipment instead of tennis where you can bring your own. Really not feasible for 30-40 countries to each bring their own battle ship. 35km at a moving target
Admiral Lee was told by the Navy he bad eye sight but was an olympic gold medalist 😂
In all fairness - I believe he was more a coach than a genuine shooter... but, if the medals speak for themselves - he was one hell of a coach.
@@Joseph55220 The medals were for his actually shooting. The navy also liked to keep him close to the eastern seaboard for the summer competitions. There was one competition he won rifle shooting in the morning, in the afternoon he won pistol even though he wasn't entered in it. Being his office mate did come with the hazard of having Lee shooting behind you. He also tried to keep the rat populations on his early commands down with various shooting or automatic shooting traps as well as his own pistol work.
The navy eventually got the message and eventually stopped questioning his eyesight.
@@PeteOtton That was Camp Perry he won, still the only person to win both. And part way through the pistol competition, it malfunctioned and injured his dominant hand, so he finished with his off hand.
Lee won both a rifle and pistol National shooting contest against hundreds of other shooters. The same day.
Yes Ching Lee! Awesome!
Great and Informative video
Keep up the good work you’re doing!
Awesome!
The captain of the US Rugby team(bronze medal) is an active duty Army officer and West Point grafuate.
Cool. What is his name?
@studinthemaking it's the women's team. Not sure what her name is.
Ryan I know Drachinifel and The Fat Electrician have both done videos about Adm Lee.
ching lee, of course! *thanks drach.*
Thought Lee immediately, but was unsure if Lee actually 'served' on USS New Jersey, although I guess New Jersey was his flagship during 1944.
I didn't know there was an Olympic competition for sixteen-inch naval rifle marksmanship.
Won by USS Washington.
@@dannyhonn973 silver for Massachusetts disabling Jean Bart. Only silver because she was moored at the time
They were very hard to travel with!
What about warspite and scharnhorst?
"Stand aside, I'm coming through. This is Ching Lee."
Admiral Lee!
I wonder if Admiral Lee’s thinking would have been different if he had had some time to work with all of these ships and their crews and get them into shape for full on surface gunnery engagement operations.
Imagine if his last time with a sea command prior to the war he had had enough fuel and ordinance to do that.
Ryan touched on the principle reason ADM Lee declined the opportunity to engage in a night surface engagement with his battleships during the Philippines campaign ... his battleline hadn't been exercised in night actions, particularly in combat maneuvers in close formation with minimal or no lighting. He had no desire to see ships disabled or even sunk through collision with each other. At some point his Flagship, Washington and battleship USS Indiana had been disabled and forced to withdraw for repairs after Indiana had run headlong into Washington's stern in broad daylight, knocking both out of the war for four to six months.
There was another U.S. flag rank officer who was an Olympic athlete and who achieved a certain level of fame during the Second World War - General George S. Patton. In the 1912 Olympic Games he placed fifth in the Modern Pentathlon. Some people believe he would have won a medal but for a scoring fluke. He placed highly in the running, swimming, equestrian, and fencing events; not the best in any of them but quite high in all of them. His downfall was the pistol event, in which he placed well back in the pack. His target was missing one hole, significantly dropping what would otherwise have been a very good pistol score. Patton never believed that he had completely missed the target with one shot and thought instead that one of his later shots had gone through the same hole as an earlier round. But of course, how could you ever prove that? The judges had no choice but to score the shot as a dead miss. But if Patton was right and the shot had gone through the same hole as an earlier one, and if it had been scored correctly, he would have had enough points for an Olympic medal in Modern Pentathlon.
Wonder what he’ll say about Ching Lee
Ah yes Admiral hang on I am building a dope card for each 16 inch gun Lee
A lot of the shooting competitors in the Olympics still come from at least an initial military background.
Like the Turkish shooter who went viral as a meme recently, he is a long service NCO and I believe a former firearms instructor.
For the mannequins representing Admiral Halsey and his chief of staff, please pin some rank on their collars. I'm not saying ribbons or wings, and I know there were no SWO pins then, but at least their rank. It just doesn't look right without them.
So Wise , Thank You .
I'm so pleased about international orders. Ordered my teak clock today!
Ryan, Like Admiral Lee, I am near sighted. I have earned Expert rating with the M-16 rifle by both USAF and US Army standards.
In the MI Army National Guard, I earned a 1st and 3rd in state wide .177 air rifle and a 2nd in .177 air pistol. When I earned the 1st in air rifle, when I received the results from the rest of the states, I was shocked to learn I was FIRST compared to all others in the Army National Guard in the nation. I ranked 4th when the Air National Guard was added. It was 3 bandsman from California that did better. I joke they cheated and must have used rifled flutes!
I also won the 1979 Grissom AFB, IN base Monopoly Championship.
I think at 70, my Olympic shooting days are well past prime. Well, maybe Monopoly?
While I don't particularly shoot 100%, I always hit the target with my myopia (nearsighted, like you), exotropia, and amblyopia lol. Served on RAMAGE, whose namesake also failed the eye exam like Ching Lee.
However, when I need to make a point in a discussion, I always hit the mark with a bullseye lol.
@@海伯庵 When it comes to discussions, I try to be Sergeant Friday of Dragnet and just the facts. It seems today facts just don't matter.
RIP USS Washington, it greatly saddens me she was scrapped and the namesake of my birth/home state wasn't saved as a museum ship. I would have loved to visit her growing up.
Why did I KNOW this was going to be about "Ching" Lee? The Fat Electrician did a pretty good video about him.
If there is an Olympic sport relating to how fast you can use a t.v. remote control, I'm your man!
Pfft, when I was a kid, I WAS the remote... ;)
@jeffbangle4710 : I was the remote also for a while, but apparently, I made a better antenna and was told to stand in awkward positions for what seemed like forever while dad yelled at the T.V. like the Philadelphia Eagles defensive line could hear him!
Drach and Ryan battling for a metal on talking about battleships - now there's a thought! Anyone else we should throw in? Someone has to take the bronze.
Many of the equestrian events featured Calvary men riding.
Lee knew the danger of the Japanese Long Lance torpedoes.
You also have to remember the IJN Long Lance torpedo, and what it did to US ships. Only takes 1 to ruin your day, and cause mass confusion
8:27 I had always heard this story attached to the Battle of Leyte Gulf, when Lee turned down an offer to engage Kurita’s Center Force as they retreated from their fight with Taffy 3. Did this also happen at Philippine Sea?
Maybe you are conflating the story of the battle for The Philippine Sea? At that battle he declined venturing into the Japanese fleet in the dark, turning over the offensive to Mitchner and his flyboys. At San Bernedino He and Mitchner tried to get Halsey to leave Lee behind with the battleships with an escort to guard the straight. Halsey should have been left ashore instead of putting him in charge of the fleet to give Spruance time to plan for the invasion of Okinawa.
@@PeteOtton I know Drach has said in a few videos it was Leyte Gulf, so either it happened twice or history has a whole has conflated it
@@sirboomsalot4902 At Philippine Sea, Lee declined to go west to meet the Japanese in a night engagement because he was worried about meeting the Japanese at night and with battleships he was a bit leery of their gunnery when the pilots could do the job the next morning.
At Leyte Gulf (San Bernedino Straight) He wanted to stay behind with the battleships and a screen force of cruisers and destroyers to protect the northern approach to Leyte. If he had stayed TF38.2 might have delayed departing to refuel for 12-24 hours to cover them and provide recon of Kurita's Center Force and possibly a raid at or just before dawn with Lee finishing them off. Halsey screwed the pooch by haring after the carriers with the entire fleet. Halsey was too chaotic a leader and behind the times on the strength and might of the USN compared to the IJN.
great video
What the name of the USMC enlisted marine that won a medal boxing in the Olympics in the 1960’s?
Do you know which Olympics? 1960, 1964 or 1968?
@@WALTERBROADDUS64 or 68
@@studinthemaking I had to look it up. Arthur Redden. US Marine and light heavyweight was on the Olympic boxing team for 1968. Previously played football and track for Arkansas AM&N. From Wilmington, DE. Lost to Georgi Stankov. On the same Team As George Foreman who won Gold as a Heavyweight.
@@studinthemaking oh wait a minute, maybe you're thinking of Charlie Brown? BRONZE medal in 1964. FEATHERWIEGHT. was a Marine. And did not go pro.... Same team as Joe Frazier that year.
good one
Many years ago, I was on my college's varsity pistol team. Based on how well I did versus our best shooter, I'd probably do best in Men's 25m Rapid Fire Pistol or Men's 10m air pistol.
Admiral Lee gang lets mf goooo
Willis Lee was a prophet
Yes, he was trying to get as many AA guns and radar aboard ships before the war included the US.
Is there any documentation of Lee and Nimitz pistol shooting together at Pearl or Guam?
Can we get a summary of New Jerseys role in security for the 88 games in Seoul
Why Lee preffered the Nort Carolinas? What made them better for flag operations than Iowas or South Dakotas in his opinion? And Spruance Choose Indianapolis beacause he Grew Up in that city or is just a coincidence?
Well with USS Washington in particular, it was her crew. The gunnery officer's were a bunch of math nerds that turned Washington into 9 16" 45 cal sniper rifles. Most of those Jr officers would have been right at home in the Trench at Mission Control during the Gemini and Apollo programs.
Cool
Which not What, sorry to be pedantic 😉 love the Vlogs!!
Can that wall clock be made operational?
I am no expert and seek further confirmation. However, I have heard Willis Lee was not congenitally myopic, but was incorrigible as a youngster and played excessivesly with explosives. I have read that his coke-bottle glasses were aquired as part of his recovery from attempting to recover/disarm an explosive he had set that was tardy. Those glasses were how he excelled in marksmanship in his revovery from his injuries, and his mastery of the cavity magnetron set him apart from the other flag officers that hadn't needed visual assistance. Lee could see with Radar, to an extent that surpassed his age cohorts. It was often said he practically trained his young, inexperienced crews in Radar operation. I have no certain knowledge of this and await conformation. All I have is an old painting my father had that turns out to be of that date and time, when Washington opened up from the blackness onto Kurishima. I know my father was at the helm that night, but also know know he could not possibly see a thing that night, and would have to have been behind a blast shield when 6, 16 inch guns were fired. Lee would have to have been in the space behind him, guiding the vessel and the gunnery, in the pitch black, with the newest Radar.
Ryan would tie for gold with Drach and Dr Alexander Clarke.
Did those battleships have time to conduct drills/practice before the proposed nighttime engagement?
If multi-day long-distance hiking or backpacking was an Olympic sport, I could win a medal.
I’m pretty sure I could medal in 12oz curls
Cheers
Why would an admiral shift his flag from a battleship to a cruiser, unless like the midway battle his ship is being sunk?
Personal preference, mission requirements, ship availability. Many reasons for it.
Spruance preferred a cruiser so that he wouldn't take an important ship out of position if he needed to be in a different part of the fleet.
The flagship is usually about command and control rather than fighting. You also have to have room for your staff and necessary Communications.
@@WALTERBROADDUS exactly my point. Battleships were generally larger with more communication gear than say a cruiser or something. Most even had accommodations for flag staff. Why would you change your flag to a smaller less equipped ship when a battleship was available?
@@robertschultz6922 those capabilities also make it a Target? So you may not wish to be on the biggest bullseye?🎯
I think I'd qualify to be a member of the US Olympic brick-building team
It most definitely wasn't a man beating on a woman
Coming to USS New Jersey September 11
I'd medal well, if couch potato was an Olympic sport.
"Stand aside, we are coming through. This is 'Ching' Lee."
Heard about this wonderful guy from a video about Ching Lee on "The Fat Electrician". :)
The way it's looking a person has to be trans to win in the Olympics
1st, 1 August 2024
The Navy brass was never going to admit this to any below flag-level - but they had zero intention of getting into a major surface battle capital ship to capital ship. The IJN had bigger guns and, whenever they were West of our fleet, they had the jet-stream - which meant the Japanese always out-ranged us in surface-to-surface action. Plus, after Midway, we knew that, as long as we could protect our carriers - we had absolute air-superiority and therefore dramatically outranged the Japanese in terms of air-to-surface action. But, the other thing that people forget about, in the first two years of the war - we did to the Japanese what the Germans had done to us in the Atlantic, except on an even grander scale. In the Indian ocean, the Philippine sea, and even the Persian Gulf - we bottomed soooo much tonnage - often by using the EXACT same tactics the u-boats had employed to such great effect against us. And, by the summer of '43, the biggest problem the Japanese had was: that had no oil. And we knew it. As long as we could drag the war out - the Japanese would lose their ability to conduct naval and aerial operations while we were churning out planes and warships at unprecedented rates. So, as interesting as it would have been to see the results of fleet on fleet engagement - it was obviously safer and smarter to just troll the IJN by keeping our fleet just ever so slightly out of striking distance.
And unlike us - where we were cranking out thousands of Liberties and long-range destroyers to escort them - the Japanese had virtually no ability to protect their logistical-chain in the open ocean and their ships were often 30k+ DWT. German wolfpacks - even if they found the opportunity to engage in favorable conditions - would run out of torpedoes before they could make a significant enough dent in our supply-chain to cause dramatic interruption to the war-effort. One US submarine, on the other hand, could take up station and put a third of a million tons on the ocean-floor before she had to return to port.
The Japanese merchant-fleet were big, slow, predictable, and torpedo-magnets.
Um... The Jet Stream sits about 30,000 feet up. I don't think it had much to do with WWII surface engagements.
The Japanese merchant-fleet were also almost exclusively ww1-era and were generally coal-fired buckets with very little interior compartmentalization, shoddy, rivetted construction, they poured dark-black smoke all day and night, and made more noise than an AC/DC concert.
Despite the deficiencies of the mark 19 torpedo( think that's the right one ).
Not watched the video yet but I’m guessing it’s Lee from the Washington
Yep , I was right
Tubing an Olympic sport ?
Speaking of Camden, New Jersey.... did they ever serve Campbell's Soup?🥫
Not sure who would win the Silver and Bronze but you'd get the Gold . Now I wanna go dig more about Admiral Lee's shooting records .