Edgar Giffenig did a really good study of this about 5 years ago. He also, considered how high off the ground the player got. The catch it at the peak myth was busted. Glad to see you presenting this concept today.
If you have the fps for these videos you can get a better estimate on distance dropped. It is just 16 x time^2. Time is just frames divided by fps. For example a typical drop time for me is 0.35s. 16 x 0.35 x 0.35 = 1.96 ft = 23.5”. You can also use this method to estimate the height of the toss. The same formula applies from release to apex. Depending on posture, the release is about 6” less than the player’s height. For the toss noted that was 16 x 0.57 x 0.57 = 5.2 ft. Add 6’ and subtract 6” and we get a toss height of 10.7 ft. That results in an old guy contact height of about 8.7 ft. BTW, if the toss goes out of frame the apex is always midway in between where the same part of the ball went out of frame and came back into frame. I use an old program called Technique that gives me the times without having to do a frame count. I guess I messed up my editing because I lost my Alcaraz, Garcia and Medvedev examples. Bottom line is that Medvedev and Garcia had very high tosses and Alcaraz has a moderately high toss. All of them, especially Alcaraz who is tilted considerably at contact have lower contact heights than the usual estimates. I’d like to get raw footage of Federer so that I could see if his contact height is really as high as people tend to estimate.
Interesting analysis. With my students I find that if they focus on toss height, they tend to time their serve rhythm to the toss as opposed to timing their toss and toss height to their serve rhythm and swing speed. My general rule of thumb is to have them initiate their leg drive when their toss reaches the apex. If they feel rushed, I have them toss a little higher, but if I see a significant pause in their serve rhythm I have them lower their toss. Thoughts? As always, I appreciate your insight and instruction.
Hi Victor, Thanks for your excellent contribution to the video. Your rule of thumb provides a very good point of reference for players and coaches...thank you! Best, John
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Edgar Giffenig did a really good study of this about 5 years ago. He also, considered how high off the ground the player got.
The catch it at the peak myth was busted.
Glad to see you presenting this concept today.
Thanks for your feedback and contribution to the video! Best, John
If you have the fps for these videos you can get a better estimate on distance dropped. It is just 16 x time^2. Time is just frames divided by fps. For example a typical drop time for me is 0.35s. 16 x 0.35 x 0.35 = 1.96 ft = 23.5”. You can also use this method to estimate the height of the toss. The same formula applies from release to apex. Depending on posture, the release is about 6” less than the player’s height. For the toss noted that was 16 x 0.57 x 0.57 = 5.2 ft. Add 6’ and subtract 6” and we get a toss height of 10.7 ft. That results in an old guy contact height of about 8.7 ft. BTW, if the toss goes out of frame the apex is always midway in between where the same part of the ball went out of frame and came back into frame. I use an old program called Technique that gives me the times without having to do a frame count. I guess I messed up my editing because I lost my Alcaraz, Garcia and Medvedev examples. Bottom line is that Medvedev and Garcia had very high tosses and Alcaraz has a moderately high toss. All of them, especially Alcaraz who is tilted considerably at contact have lower contact heights than the usual estimates. I’d like to get raw footage of Federer so that I could see if his contact height is really as high as people tend to estimate.
Hi Mike, Thanks for your contribution to the video with these details...much appreciate the formula and example of Carlos Alcaraz. Best, John
Interesting analysis. With my students I find that if they focus on toss height, they tend to time their serve rhythm to the toss as opposed to timing their toss and toss height to their serve rhythm and swing speed. My general rule of thumb is to have them initiate their leg drive when their toss reaches the apex. If they feel rushed, I have them toss a little higher, but if I see a significant pause in their serve rhythm I have them lower their toss. Thoughts? As always, I appreciate your insight and instruction.
Hi Victor, Thanks for your excellent contribution to the video. Your rule of thumb provides a very good point of reference for players and coaches...thank you! Best, John
Thanks for the video really like the serve from Rune, really simple.
I totally agree! Best, John
Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
I feel like this could have been a 2 minute video. I'm not sure why you needed so many examples of the same thing?
To drive the point! A bigger sample of players confirms the point of the video.
😂 @PerformancePlusTennis I thought the sample size was very valuable. 🎯
Nicks serve is not unique. Casper hits the ball on the rise.
Casper does make contact at the Apex as well, so that makes two out of 100… Isn’t that unique?