Scarcity may be the number one "Great Filter" in achieving a spacefaring civilization. We're already stretching the capacity of our tech to acquire the materials we use now, as Fraser said. Once we've run out on earth, what materials will we use to build the sprawling space infrastructure required to to obtain commercial-grade, fully-refined materials from space? It needs early adoption to have a chance to work most likely...
By the way, during hibernation, bears and lots of other big animals don't sleep for winter months. They just move very slowly. This is a much more realistic goal for the state of traveling astronauts. The biggest animal frozen solid and revived, to my knowledge, was a hamster.
Bears don't hibernate, they just go into a deep sleep. I had those during my teen years 😂 The biggest animal that regularly freezes solid and survives is the Arctic Gound Squirrel. They're 39 cm long, so like an average rabbit. And they survive being frozen, just about solid (you could actually break off an ear or limb) at -2.9 C. I think it's called a topour, where the animal is effectively dead. Now that's hibernating 😅. Life is amazing!
Is there fissile material on Mars? I would imagine that a compact molten salt reactor might be a viable option if Thorium or Uranium can be locally sourced.
Not only is there fissile metals on Mars, but there is evidence of two large thermonuclear explosions on Mars in the past, cantered in Mare Acidalium and Utopia Planum, thought to have been caused by a massive "natural nuclear reactor". Salt reactors are incredibly difficult to maintain, due to the corrosivity of the salt. You'd be way better off just using the heat from a radioactive source via the Seebeck effect like RTGs do, much simpler. The problem would be refining the ore down to the useful material - it would take a massive amount of energy to do that in the first place.
A Stirling engine powered by a couple of pellets of 238Pu. Radiators outside to form the cold side. The main reason they aren't used on probes is because they have moving parts that will need maintenance. A manned base by definition has people there. People can do maintenance. Grease moving parts. Perform repairs if necessary.
Look up pebble bead reactors (PBRs) They can be constructed to the size and shape of a standard shipping container. Test reactors running today commonly output 100 to 200 Megawatts. Perfect for the Moon and Mars.
Hibernating seems like a good idea but what about muscle atrophy? If someone is in a coma for several months they don’t just jump out of bed and start walking around.
It's certain that the dinosaurs didn't evolve space-faring technology after several hundered million years' domination of Earth. At least they didn't learn about that asteroid that ended their rule, and lives. Therefore, with a sample size of two, I predict Earth won't see another space-faring species.
...and how about a non-habitable outpost on phobos - just a robot-station? relais for communication, close-up observation, weather-forecast... and all without the need of propulsion to keep you in orbit?
How, without refineries, foundries, and extensive mining, could you extract usable elements from an asteroid? I fear we'll never get to space mining because nobody will start it until the materials are prohibitively expensive-but there will not be nearly enough resources to create the space infrastructure that's required. People who look to the future don't often seem to take scarcity into account... If we're already needing high tech to get our materials now, could we ever get enough resources to undertake a colossal megaproject?
About 1/1000th of Earth's gravity. Which is one of the best features of Phobos. You don't need a lot of fuel to get to or from Phobos. You can use Mars's atmosphere to get to Phobos and it's much easier to clime out of Mars's gravity well when you leave Phobos than the surface of Mars. Better still a rotating habitat built inside Phobos would function very similar to if it was built in open space, but with radiation and meteor protection.
4:42 I think that might be a bit pessimistic Fraser. Apart from the fossil fuels, everything we’ve mined is now sitting somewhere on the surface of the Earth - our post-apocalypse descendants will just need to dig down a few metres into old scrapyards and landfills to find a treasure trove of refined raw materials.
Maybe the total of people who ever been to space divided by the number of people that have lived since the early 60's... Being zero the Roman Empire and one, a fully space-bound civilization, we're at 0,00000005 in this scale.
You just said "leave our solar system for other star systems". I LOVE YOU. Thank you for saying that right! Everyone else talks about leaving for "other solar systems" and can not understand that there is only ONE Solar System. The one with the star Sol. Our sun.
@@j.b.onesnap So tell me, what do you think about visiting the other Earths of the Solar system? Do they teach you that in the France you live in? Be off to your Centaurian System with you. Or your Sirian System. Or your Betelgeusian System.
I just saw Dr. Zubrin give a talk at the Denver Astronomical Society. Obviously, he has put a lot of thought into how to get to, and get back, from Mars. While I applaud his forward thinking, I believe his vision of pioneers moving to Mars and establishing communities in which they raise families etc. is not realistic. Exploring Mars for science is one thing, but why would anyone (who's thought a bit about it) decide to leave sunny warm earth to live on Mars? You point out correctly that there are no economic reasons for doing so. I think Antarctica is a good surrogate to use when thinking about Mars exploration and/or settlement. Yes, humans are living at a few science stations, but only for the science. Any prospective Mars pioneer must ask and have a good answer for the question: Why don't I just move to Antarctica?" And as far as terraforming Mars, I think the Ted Talk given by Dr. Carolyn Porco in 2020 explaining why "there is no Planet B," is very pertinent.
Several years ago, I wrote an amateurish story about some Mars colonists who decide to leave. So they build a base on Phobos as a "Leaving Mars Staging Area", and turn Deimos into a "Build As You Go" interplanetary ship. Therefore I was pleased to hear Phobos get some love today.😊
I am a bit confused. We can use a MRI machine type magnetic field to protect any ship in space or even put at Mars Lagrange point 1 for planetary shield. A MRI is always ON and uses each day: An MRI machine in on mode can consume 177-321 kWh per day. The ISS producers/consumes each day: The International Space Station (ISS) uses around 2,400 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity per day. This is based on an average of 84-120 kilowatts of power used per hour. The Earth's magnetic field strength varies from 25,000 to 65,000 nanoteslas (nT), or 0.25 to 0.65 gauss Jupiter's magnetic field is about 20 times stronger than Earth's, with a strength of around 417 microTesla (μT) at its equator. This is equivalent to 4.170 gauss (G). Saturn's magnetic field is slightly weaker than Earth's, with the following strengths at different locations. Equator: The magnetic field strength at Saturn's equator is about 0.21 gauss (21 μT). Uranus's magnetic field is strong, with a minimum and maximum surface strength of approximately 0.1 and 1.1 gauss, respectively. The magnetic field of Uranus is strong, with a dipole moment of 0.23 gauss R(3)(U). The magnetic field is well represented by that of a dipole offset from the center of the planet by 0.3 R(U). Neptune's magnetic field is strong and complex, with a maximum strength of nearly 10,000 nanoteslas. The magnetic field of Neptune is 27 times stronger than Earth's. *All of these are less than the current 14T we can easily produce in a large SUV sized MRI machine. The ship shield and or planetary / moon shield could be powered by Solar Panels the way the ISS is powered. It could also be powered by Nuclear Decay and in future SNR (Small Nuclear Reactors). They are currently size of a bus and in future... we humans tend to shrink technology over time. But even if as large as a bus aka a Yank Space Shuttle Cargo sized module on the ISS. Launch it, plug in, turn on. Our current technology level has made MRI scanners at 14T. This is more than sufficient to protect a planet or moon - even a moon in orbit of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or interstellar space. In another decade/generation, we will be able to make MRI magnetic fields with a Tesla range that could pull the Iron out of Human or other fauna blood. Using a magnetic shield would make the ship not require the need for the water storage tanks to be in the external walls... and the human poop in tanks in the external walls.
Yes, you are very confused. You actually think that field strength and size is not intertwined? This is like saying that because you can produce enough focussed heat with a blow torch to melt a small chunk of iron, that same blow torch is therefore all you need to melt all the iron in a whole planet - just point it at the ground and that energy will somehow spread out to interact with the whole planet at the same temperature as right at the nozzle 😄 Obviously you need more power and a larger magnet to produce a larger field, it's not just about the strength of the field. The field produced by an MRI machine is only that strength AT THAT SIZE. Think about it: To produce the Earth's field, such that it extends past the surface of the planet, it takes an entire planet's core of molten metal spinning around. That's how large the device has to be to produce THAT strength of field with THAT size.
So Fraser I had an idea that incorporates a couple recent ideas. Since most smaller asteroids seem to be a rocky, gravelly loose consistency what about drilling, pile driving, however is efficient... Into the middle of a smeller asteroid with a pipe, push through a deflated module as you withdraw the pipe. Then start inflating the habitat module in the center. Since the binding force of the body is fairly weak it should take minimal pressure to inflate the habitat body within the mass of material. This speeds the process, keeps future inhabitants shielded from radiation, and takes far less energy than trying to spin up an asteroid to create a ring inside a mesh like was proposed previously. Obviously the inflatable would need to be extremely abrasion resistant to survive the inflation process but once that was done it would be pretty well shielded. It doesn't create the gravity feeling that a spin up ring of asteroid would but it would be a step towards methods of operating a station of sorts in an asteroid
Fraser, is there any way to get a warning on my phone and computer about an incoming coronal mass ejection? How long between its detection and arrival?
Thanks for the video Fraser. For the hibernation question, i think humans would lose a considerable amount of muscle if they were in hibernation. We need to be exercising while in micro-gravity, by the time they got there, they could lose a lot of muscle mass and bone density, and once they come back, the gravity of earth would feel significantly heavier. I mean, they often work out for hours a day with resistance training on the ISS.
Working out for hours a day is not how you maximize strength and bone mass, so they either need to look at the literature on resistance exercise or you might not be updated on what they're doing.
The Phobos question is also why is it better than a station like the ISS? Three immediate things occur to me: -You don‘t have to spend any resources keeping it in orbit - You don‘t have to worry about tidal forces - go underground for radiation Protection
In Red Mars, when the Ares arrives at Mars they setup an outpost on Phobos. I always wondered why used it as a logistics base in that book. Although it is used for a very different purpos later in the book.
Just an addition: We wouldn't need to build a planet-wide magnetosphere - It would only be necessary to generate enough of a magnetic field to encompass the settlement. As other settlements arise, they'd also build their own settlement-wide magnetic field, until eventually, one day, the planet would be covered by settlements and one large, planet-wide magnetic field (unless it turned out to be more effective/ more efficient to maintain many smaller magnetic fields).
The problem with boring into Phobos is assuming that it is as dense as earth under 1G: not likely so in space under zero G and its own minute gravity; hence likely >1 meters on material needed, i.e. not turning out as planned, as usual.
Question, slowing to land on Phobos....landing on Mars you can bleed off energy/speed by using atmospheric braking. Could you swing around Mars, plow through the atmosphere, and then land on Phobos. Looks like any way to bleed off that speed without using fuel would be a huge plus.
We currently talk about going to Mars in a "one craft does all" in Starship. I know cost is an issue but wouldn't it be better to use more specialized crafts to go back and forth from surface to Low Terrestrial Orbit and use a Cycler or some variant for the long travel time between planets, as discussed by Buzz Aldrin's Cycler proposal? Another thought I have is things of use from a resource in abundance on Mars. Like Percolates. It is so abundant and something we would have to remove to make Martian soil useful, but is there anything useful to produce from the abundance of percolates?
I think Phobos is a fantastic place to research quantum tunneling into another dimension while researching potential new energy sources. It's a flawless plan, and absolutely nothing could go wrong.
Hi Fraser, I just watched one of your older vids (Can There Be Life On Planets Around Red Dwarf Stars? I really liked the way you gave us the facts straight off without any fluff. Any chance of some more like that?
Deimos has the advantage of even less delta vee and a higher perspective, can keep a place on the surface in view longer. One could run a telepresence exploration program and retrieve samples from all over and check them out in a lab there.
Yes...Arguably Phobos is best destination in the solar system for an initial colonization effort. It has all the resources you'd need to build a rotating habitat inside the moon. Phobos's gravity is so low it would be similar to building in open space yet inside the moon you would have all the radiation and meteor protection you could want. The moon's resources could provide a basis for the colony's economy. Also you can also use Mars's atmosphere to slowdown when going to Phobos making the delta-v to get there a lot friendlier than anywhere else so near the sun. Leaving Phobos delta-V is way lower than Earth, Luna, or Mars.
@@bhatkat Aside from being smaller Deimos's metallicity isn't as rich as Phobos. Meaning there are fewer resources natively available. Also Deimos's orbital velocity is about 1km/s slower than Phobos. So when arriving from outside the Mars system it would take less delt-v to get to Phobos than Deimos. Which is the more important measure than delta-v needed to get from Mars to it's moons.
One downside which come to mind regarding Phobos instead of Mars is that the gravity is so weak, and Mars' gravity whould be more beneficial for humans, especially after sever month travelling folrom Earth in zero G.
Hibernation also means that the body's cellular repair mechanisms stop. During hibernation, radiation damage will accumulate and on revival the body would be confronted with all the damage at once. Unless radiation exposure can be reduced to levels even below that on the surface of Earth, hibernation is not going to be viable.
The reason that I probably asked the question about the hibernation and radiation there was a study done and it was found animals that were either in hibernation or torpor had a huge reduction of the effect that radiation had on their body
Frasier's discussion of how to cope with radiation on long-term voyages made me think of Omuamua as a possible 'alien spacecraft' from another system... " burrow into an asteroid" ... "you'd be insulated from radiation" ... "You could use the resources of the asteroid while on your voyage". How would we on Earth detect an alien presence within an asteroid that had been commandeered to be an interstellar craft?
as Starship is still under developement, the numbers change on a monthly basis, but at the moment the estimation is 100-150 t to LEO fully reusable and 300 t to LEO expendable - the actual number is rather growing than falling over time, while Elons earlier predictions were always optimistic to a ridiculous degree. In regards to volume: The fairing has 9 m diameter and somewhere from 15-30 m height.
It would obviously depend what material you used and how you build it. If you can build an inflatable habitat, or one that otherwise folds out, it can be larger than the fairing allows.
@@PinataOblongata @AndreasPeters-r3e I picure a giant structural steel shell, 15-21m diameter or irregularly shaped, built to just survive launch empty and Starships bring the equipment to populate it.
Also don't forget! Phobos would make a great location for a Magnetic Particle Accelerator helping to bring positive ions to Mars surface/helping terraform & building an atmosphere + radiation shielding.
You missed one of the major advantages for a base on Pobos, remote control of robotic missions on Mars would have no appreciable lag when compared to controlling from Earth. There is also the factor that it is far easier to return people and materials from Phobos than from Mars, and you cannot contaminate Mars from Phobos.
Getting back from Mars is even easier than that if you combine making fuel on Mars with an Aldrin cycler. You have all the shielding on the cycler so all you need is to make enough fuel to launch from mars and catch up to the cycler, dock with it and then the crew move into the cycler and live there till you're almost back at Earth, they get back into what was the ascent vehicle and go back down to Earth. I saw an interview, I think maybe on here, where they said that the aldrin cycler doesn't help because you still have to launch all the shielding and life support for a trip to Mars anyway, which is wrong. You only need enough shielding and life support on the launch vessel to get you to the cycler. You build the cycler with all the shielding and life support, maybe even some food crops to reduce your requirement to bring food with you.
You are going to need a space station in orbit around Mars or, better, a base on Phobos, if anything to be able to postpone the landing if, by the time you arrive, there is a planetary dust storm for example. At least you are going to be able to wait at your orbital base / station and decide to land or not, etc.
2:35 Yes, humanity has used much of the easily acquired natural resources. However, it could take millions or even tens of millions of years for the next intelligent species to evolve on Earth. That's plenty of time for Earth to geologically replenish most of what humanity has taken. Also, the universe will likely help replenish many metals. In fifty thousand years, there will be few, if any, signs that we were ever here. 3:09 space crabs
2 astranuts EVA touch helmits. would they be able to hear eachother? like 2 cups on string, or talking through heavy door, like putting wrench on ear and endgin block to hear skipping valves
Yes. But not very well. Here's the source of the problem: it's more advantageous to carry pure oxygen rather than your usual mix, 20% O2, 78% N2 because what we really care is the partial pressure of oxygen. No or very little N2 means less gas to filter. Also, less pressure means a less stiffer EV suit. And the problem is the sound doesn't carry very well at lower gas pressure.
@@milutzuk it is not about being very well. we will probbly need to know for emercency procedures. ensuring we know the last effords we can take. yeah we could just learn sigh launge but we can also use this "not well" technique and use it as a base to find new technology. perhaps a special rod can be used imbedded in the helmit that would be ideal for this so we can have it built in by default helping anyone in a situation where coms are out it is sunny and you would like to communicate something.
@@ThunderAxe52-i5m I see. Well, I'm doing electronics for 40 years and programming for 35 years. Today almost every module in my home automation system (Home Assistant) is made by me. So...there are a lot of ways to exchange sound, video, biological parameters, and suit telemetry between two suits in proximity which can give more information than helmets direct contact or only the voice. Besides, if some system is critical, then make it simple, hardened, and redundant. The only situation I can think of that can completely kill a simple, but sturdy basic communication electronics (let's say a low-power AM transceiver) and probably is not avoidable (one can avoid a solar flare) is an EMP, but then there are more concerns than not being able to communicate. Every suit would stop working, the vehicle you are using to move around (in space, on the Moon or Mars) would be dead. Now, if you raise the problem that a certain critical system doesn't have redundancy with another technology, I would do the same. But then, so the engineers who are designing the suit.
Phobos is the Gateway (like the Moons Gateway) to Mars. Lots of complaints about the Moons Gateway so if you don't like it, you wont like Phobos. I am OK with it either way and I am sure both will eventually have a base. The protection of us from radiation can be with sleeping quarters and then suits instead of the whole ship. Another idea is the shuttle ship (built or asteroid) that continuously flys to Mars and back and we just dock with it, Once it is in orbit, little fuel is needed to maintain the orbit (it does not ever land). Note that hibernation can be mixed in here too. dock with the shuttle, sleep in a shielded chamber...etc. AI humanoids may be reliable enough by then to be the Captain/Pilot/Doctor to administer sleeping aids.
It might be possible in the future to boost Phobos so that it does not fall into Mars. The fuel to boost Phobos might actually be on Phobos already in the form of water or other volatiles.
Fraser, the problem I see right off the bat is that the astronauts, after having been without decent gravity for months already, will land, instead of the 38% gravity of Mars, on Phobos, which probably has somewhere near zero gravity.
The main problem I see with turning people into popsicles is I don't wanna be imprisoned for a hundred years only to wake up and have an urge to crochet. . . Makes me think of another movie : "Are you human?" "negative, I am a meat popsicle" . . . Name those movies.
For low cost Mars logistics is the Mars Cycler. We will need several UP Cyclers and serveral DOWN Cyclers. Ps Also, we will need a coms network covering the Moon and relay coms satalite and coms satalites around Mars. This will enable wideband coms between Earth, Moon and Mars.
It was aimed at M13 a globular cluster 25.000 lightyears away. The reason was that it is a large collection of stars that was available in the sky when the message was sent.
Rather than just one pit stop at phobos, if i have to decide, would plan to make a space base orbiting around venus. So first travel to our space station around earth, take some breath.. move to space station orboting venus take another breath Then use earth gravity assist to fly to mars much faster than directly flying to mars using all fuels. In between stopping on phobos will help for returning back to earth, to use gravity assist of mars.
@frasercain Ok, here it is. Why are all planets we see round-ish but solar systems and galaxies flat-ish? Why don't we see flat planets or round galaxies? Is it because of their movement, the materials they are made of, or perhaps the amount of mass has something to do with their shape?
Would a gravitationally lensed gravitational wave signal be distorted and smeared and duplicated with delays, in the way that light signals are? Have we detected any like that?
Hey Frasier, I’ve read that 99.8% of the mass contained within the solar system is locked up in the sun. Is that a typical percentage for a star system? Does it depend on the type or size of star? Or is there no typical percentage?
With the telescope events, could there be one on the moon? Like maybe when there's a half or less moon and focus on the terminator and see the shape of the craters and then on the limb and see the craters on the limb? Maybe even look at Apollo landing sites (I know we can't see anything from Earth, but just knowing THAT spot right there is where people were. Edit. Just realised that if the moon was a toenail and the times worked out, Dr. Becky might come on and then could look as some other things too?
Presumably scientists have looked into small scale magnetic blisters to protect groups of astronauts on the surface? It just seems that the focus is always on these massive large scale magnetospheres, enclosing the entire moon.
@FraserCain, I suggest you and your viewers look up Isaac Arthur, a futurist on YT. He has covered a lot of this already, including that we don't need some massive structure on a planet to make a magnetosphere. You just put up some bots in the L1 Lagrange point that use solar power to make magnetic fields that overlap, while also having structures that can filter and focus solar energy to Mars, making the sun look brighter. We have the tech to do this right now.
Some O'Neill cylinders would go great inside Phobos! There could be two O'Neill cylinders built within Phobos that would collectively have 64 square kilometers of habitable land, comparable to a county or small country! Depending on the population density, these Phobos ONeill cylinders could house several million people each. The first research station on Phobos could be a small rotating habitat.
I thought the O'Neil cylinders were supposed to rotate to create artificial gravity? WHAAA?! have rotating cylinders in a hollowed out Phobos ? ..... naaah that doesn't make sense :)
Another way to protect yourself against radiation is to get really really good at curing cancer and everything cancer-adjacent. In other words, bio-engineering.
If you were spacefaring & capable of forming stone with machine precision, add antigravity, and you have an armada of spacecraft without having to refine special alloys... i.e. Oumuamua or the Baltic anomaly.
I never understand how the human body can survive without Earth like gravity. As we've taken for granted the "artificial gravity" on all sci-fi movies and Star Trek of course. So, for me, until artificial gravity has been created, we can't go far for long surely?
Re MOXIE process - we really need to push here on Earth for development of the artificial hydrocarbons productions. Essentially we can use sunny places like Sahara desert to collect solar energy and use it to desalinate water and subsequently combine it with CO2 (imported from power stations) to manufacture methane
Von Braun in his Collier's Weekly piece thought we would do hibernation
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Since Phobos orbits above Mars at 3,700 miles plus or minus while our Moon is around 1/4 million miles it certainly makes sense to turn that small moon into a giant space station and transfer station.. Excavating deep inside would offer secure and shielded sheltered living space for thousands of workers and be just a short hop to the Martian surface.. The lack of gravity would be an issue for long term stays but as I have said many times in the past, direct missions from Earh to Mars and back are stupid and extremely challenging.. It is in a locked orbit and rotates once every 7.5 hours which matches its spin.. What would be the reverse G forces in a tunnel under the surface that follows this rotation knowing that it has a rough circumference of 21 miles added to the gravitational pull of Mars?? Would this generate enough rotational momentum gravity for human bodies not to deteriorate?? I have no idea how to do that math for even a guess of the G force..
Hibernation? Humans don't and i think it would hurt the human body. Radiation.. Doesn't water help? Have layers of it as shielding? But maybe you'd need too much?...
All these conspiracies regarding moon and the van Allen belt lot of conflicting information on how much you would be exposed to, love your channel thanks for responding!
Gidday from Australia, Fraser. A question for you on extraterrestrials. I look at probabilities. On the one hand we have beings that can co-exist with us...from incredible distances away...that just so happen to cope with our environment. On MY other hand...we may well have co-existing hominin cousins that achieved High Science well before the last Ice Age and THAT is who are buzzing around out there. Saying that, some may well "be" extraterrestrials as tens of thousands of years in microgravity affected their evolution. Ancient texts, mythologies, and architecture attest to this consideration. But...there is something more salient about this. As plausible as I think it is...why the silence about it? Why is this rarely discussed? Are they in control of what we do?
Phobos has microgravity not a million miles unlike the ISS. Escape velocity is about 11mph IIRC, within a sprint... It's a potentially interesting place but best considered a space station, certainly not a 'base'.
For a space elevator, on mars you could (in theory) build one from steel. Due to the smaller gravity, you don´t need SciFi material science to pull it off. That doesn´t mean it´s feasible right now.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Thanks!
Space base on Phobos? They'd be DOOMed!
As long as you avoid the portal to Hell, it'll be fine.
Ha Ha , took me a second.
Yeah, beat me to it
Would be awesome flying there tho... needs a statue to Doomguy
They're doom anyway unless they can get it to spin and create 1 G.
It's a good idea to bring some double-barreled shotguns.
Phobos Base™: BFG 10,000 not included
Scarcity may be the number one "Great Filter" in achieving a spacefaring civilization. We're already stretching the capacity of our tech to acquire the materials we use now, as Fraser said. Once we've run out on earth, what materials will we use to build the sprawling space infrastructure required to to obtain commercial-grade, fully-refined materials from space?
It needs early adoption to have a chance to work most likely...
By the way, during hibernation, bears and lots of other big animals don't sleep for winter months. They just move very slowly. This is a much more realistic goal for the state of traveling astronauts. The biggest animal frozen solid and revived, to my knowledge, was a hamster.
Bears don't hibernate, they just go into a deep sleep. I had those during my teen years 😂 The biggest animal that regularly freezes solid and survives is the Arctic Gound Squirrel. They're 39 cm long, so like an average rabbit. And they survive being frozen, just about solid (you could actually break off an ear or limb) at -2.9 C. I think it's called a topour, where the animal is effectively dead. Now that's hibernating 😅. Life is amazing!
Radiation doesn't stop just because you take a nap.
@@robbob1866 nope. Torpor is shorter form of hibernation. Hibernating animals go through torpor several times during the hibernation period.
Is there fissile material on Mars? I would imagine that a compact molten salt reactor might be a viable option if Thorium or Uranium can be locally sourced.
Not only is there fissile metals on Mars, but there is evidence of two large thermonuclear explosions on Mars in the past, cantered in Mare Acidalium and Utopia Planum, thought to have been caused by a massive "natural nuclear reactor".
Salt reactors are incredibly difficult to maintain, due to the corrosivity of the salt. You'd be way better off just using the heat from a radioactive source via the Seebeck effect like RTGs do, much simpler. The problem would be refining the ore down to the useful material - it would take a massive amount of energy to do that in the first place.
A Stirling engine powered by a couple of pellets of 238Pu. Radiators outside to form the cold side. The main reason they aren't used on probes is because they have moving parts that will need maintenance. A manned base by definition has people there. People can do maintenance. Grease moving parts. Perform repairs if necessary.
Look up pebble bead reactors (PBRs) They can be constructed to the size and shape of a standard shipping container. Test reactors running today commonly output 100 to 200 Megawatts. Perfect for the Moon and Mars.
Hibernating seems like a good idea but what about muscle atrophy? If someone is in a coma for several months they don’t just jump out of bed and start walking around.
@@chrisfleming701 Impossible to do that without gravity and came out alive
You'd still be taking radiation damage as you sleep. Radiation doesn't stop just because you take a nap, no matter how deep the sleep.
@@abrahamroloff8671 No but you can be placed in a heavily shielded place without getting claustrophobia.
I think that if we manage to achieve hibernation, getting out of it as a trained athlete would be piece of cake.
@@milutzuk Electrostimulation can be applied during hibernation, as long as enough nutrients and oxygen is supplied to the muscles.
It's certain that the dinosaurs didn't evolve space-faring technology after several hundered million years' domination of Earth. At least they didn't learn about that asteroid that ended their rule, and lives. Therefore, with a sample size of two, I predict Earth won't see another space-faring species.
The Hadrasaur did! They just didn't tell the others about the asteroid. They went to the Delta quadrant and met Cmd. Jakota in the 24th century!
@@vincewilson1
Damn straight!!
Eyes open, Vince!
...and how about a non-habitable outpost on phobos - just a robot-station? relais for communication, close-up observation, weather-forecast... and all without the need of propulsion to keep you in orbit?
How, without refineries, foundries, and extensive mining, could you extract usable elements from an asteroid?
I fear we'll never get to space mining because nobody will start it until the materials are prohibitively expensive-but there will not be nearly enough resources to create the space infrastructure that's required. People who look to the future don't often seem to take scarcity into account... If we're already needing high tech to get our materials now, could we ever get enough resources to undertake a colossal megaproject?
If I ever travel to Mars, I'm definitely getting a custom sticker printed up for my luggage that labels it as "The Case for Mars".
I think that one falls into the dad joke bin.
@vincewilson1 Perfect.
FANTASTIC hearing livestream time changes! Love, a grateful Australian.
What is the gravity on Phobos
For all intents and purposes, something between none and fa
Enough but don't jump on phobos otherwise you will be out from the gravity of phobos.
About 1/1000th of Earth's gravity. Which is one of the best features of Phobos. You don't need a lot of fuel to get to or from Phobos. You can use Mars's atmosphere to get to Phobos and it's much easier to clime out of Mars's gravity well when you leave Phobos than the surface of Mars. Better still a rotating habitat built inside Phobos would function very similar to if it was built in open space, but with radiation and meteor protection.
4:42 I think that might be a bit pessimistic Fraser. Apart from the fossil fuels, everything we’ve mined is now sitting somewhere on the surface of the Earth - our post-apocalypse descendants will just need to dig down a few metres into old scrapyards and landfills to find a treasure trove of refined raw materials.
Could we bury inside a rubble pile like asteroid Ryugu for radiation protection and easy access to volatiles for propulsion ?
That's a really interesting idea, the dwarf planet around there would be a great spot as well Sirius excuse me if I misspelled it.
I’m still struggling to get my head around this travelling to mars and back again.
What is the metric for "spacefaring"? When can we see our civilization as such?
Maybe the total of people who ever been to space divided by the number of people that have lived since the early 60's...
Being zero the Roman Empire and one, a fully space-bound civilization, we're at 0,00000005 in this scale.
When we have people permanently living and working in space. The ISS doesn't count. Can't be government funded. They gotta be making a profit.
You just said "leave our solar system for other star systems". I LOVE YOU. Thank you for saying that right!
Everyone else talks about leaving for "other solar systems" and can not understand that there is only ONE Solar System. The one with the star Sol. Our sun.
I know it drives me crazy.....
WoW, that’s your take? Semantics drives you.
@@j.b.onesnap So tell me, what do you think about visiting the other Earths of the Solar system? Do they teach you that in the France you live in? Be off to your Centaurian System with you. Or your Sirian System. Or your Betelgeusian System.
Crows will just pick up where we leave off. They are damn smart tool users.
Octopus and cuddlefish .....they are right there too
@@JohnPowell6 maggots too!
I just saw Dr. Zubrin give a talk at the Denver Astronomical Society. Obviously, he has put a lot of thought into how to get to, and get back, from Mars. While I applaud his forward thinking, I believe his vision of pioneers moving to Mars and establishing communities in which they raise families etc. is not realistic. Exploring Mars for science is one thing, but why would anyone (who's thought a bit about it) decide to leave sunny warm earth to live on Mars? You point out correctly that there are no economic reasons for doing so. I think Antarctica is a good surrogate to use when thinking about Mars exploration and/or settlement. Yes, humans are living at a few science stations, but only for the science. Any prospective Mars pioneer must ask and have a good answer for the question: Why don't I just move to Antarctica?" And as far as terraforming Mars, I think the Ted Talk given by Dr. Carolyn Porco in 2020 explaining why "there is no Planet B," is very pertinent.
Always. Fascinating Fraser Cain!
Several years ago, I wrote an amateurish story about some Mars colonists who decide to leave. So they build a base on Phobos as a "Leaving Mars Staging Area", and turn Deimos into a "Build As You Go" interplanetary ship.
Therefore I was pleased to hear Phobos get some love today.😊
if the crew sleeps all way long, several months long, how will they prevent muscle atropy? Thanks a lot.
I imagine nano technology could provide an answer....
I am a bit confused. We can use a MRI machine type magnetic field to protect any ship in space or even put at Mars Lagrange point 1 for planetary shield.
A MRI is always ON and uses each day: An MRI machine in on mode can consume 177-321 kWh per day.
The ISS producers/consumes each day: The International Space Station (ISS) uses around 2,400 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity per day. This is based on an average of 84-120 kilowatts of power used per hour.
The Earth's magnetic field strength varies from 25,000 to 65,000 nanoteslas (nT), or 0.25 to 0.65 gauss
Jupiter's magnetic field is about 20 times stronger than Earth's, with a strength of around 417 microTesla (μT) at its equator. This is equivalent to 4.170 gauss (G).
Saturn's magnetic field is slightly weaker than Earth's, with the following strengths at different locations.
Equator: The magnetic field strength at Saturn's equator is about 0.21 gauss (21 μT).
Uranus's magnetic field is strong, with a minimum and maximum surface strength of approximately 0.1 and 1.1 gauss, respectively.
The magnetic field of Uranus is strong, with a dipole moment of 0.23 gauss R(3)(U). The magnetic field is well represented by that of a dipole offset from the center of the planet by 0.3 R(U).
Neptune's magnetic field is strong and complex, with a maximum strength of nearly 10,000 nanoteslas.
The magnetic field of Neptune is 27 times stronger than Earth's.
*All of these are less than the current 14T we can easily produce in a large SUV sized MRI machine.
The ship shield and or planetary / moon shield could be powered by Solar Panels the way the ISS is powered. It could also be powered by Nuclear Decay and in future SNR (Small Nuclear Reactors). They are currently size of a bus and in future... we humans tend to shrink technology over time. But even if as large as a bus aka a Yank Space Shuttle Cargo sized module on the ISS. Launch it, plug in, turn on.
Our current technology level has made MRI scanners at 14T. This is more than sufficient to protect a planet or moon - even a moon in orbit of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, or interstellar space. In another decade/generation, we will be able to make MRI magnetic fields with a Tesla range that could pull the Iron out of Human or other fauna blood.
Using a magnetic shield would make the ship not require the need for the water storage tanks to be in the external walls... and the human poop in tanks in the external walls.
Yes, you are very confused. You actually think that field strength and size is not intertwined? This is like saying that because you can produce enough focussed heat with a blow torch to melt a small chunk of iron, that same blow torch is therefore all you need to melt all the iron in a whole planet - just point it at the ground and that energy will somehow spread out to interact with the whole planet at the same temperature as right at the nozzle 😄 Obviously you need more power and a larger magnet to produce a larger field, it's not just about the strength of the field. The field produced by an MRI machine is only that strength AT THAT SIZE.
Think about it: To produce the Earth's field, such that it extends past the surface of the planet, it takes an entire planet's core of molten metal spinning around. That's how large the device has to be to produce THAT strength of field with THAT size.
@@PinataOblongataWell said.
So Fraser I had an idea that incorporates a couple recent ideas. Since most smaller asteroids seem to be a rocky, gravelly loose consistency what about drilling, pile driving, however is efficient... Into the middle of a smeller asteroid with a pipe, push through a deflated module as you withdraw the pipe. Then start inflating the habitat module in the center. Since the binding force of the body is fairly weak it should take minimal pressure to inflate the habitat body within the mass of material. This speeds the process, keeps future inhabitants shielded from radiation, and takes far less energy than trying to spin up an asteroid to create a ring inside a mesh like was proposed previously. Obviously the inflatable would need to be extremely abrasion resistant to survive the inflation process but once that was done it would be pretty well shielded. It doesn't create the gravity feeling that a spin up ring of asteroid would but it would be a step towards methods of operating a station of sorts in an asteroid
Fraser, is there any way to get a warning on my phone and computer about an incoming coronal mass ejection? How long between its detection and arrival?
Thanks for the video Fraser.
For the hibernation question, i think humans would lose a considerable amount of muscle if they were in hibernation. We need to be exercising while in micro-gravity, by the time they got there, they could lose a lot of muscle mass and bone density, and once they come back, the gravity of earth would feel significantly heavier. I mean, they often work out for hours a day with resistance training on the ISS.
Working out for hours a day is not how you maximize strength and bone mass, so they either need to look at the literature on resistance exercise or you might not be updated on what they're doing.
The Phobos question is also why is it better than a station like the ISS?
Three immediate things occur to me:
-You don‘t have to spend any resources keeping it in orbit
- You don‘t have to worry about tidal forces
- go underground for radiation Protection
In Red Mars, when the Ares arrives at Mars they setup an outpost on Phobos. I always wondered why used it as a logistics base in that book. Although it is used for a very different purpos later in the book.
Just an addition:
We wouldn't need to build a planet-wide magnetosphere - It would only be necessary to generate enough of a magnetic field to encompass the settlement. As other settlements arise, they'd also build their own settlement-wide magnetic field, until eventually, one day, the planet would be covered by settlements and one large, planet-wide magnetic field (unless it turned out to be more effective/ more efficient to maintain many smaller magnetic fields).
The problem with boring into Phobos is assuming that it is as dense as earth under 1G: not likely so in space under zero G and its own minute gravity; hence likely >1 meters on material needed, i.e. not turning out as planned, as usual.
Question, slowing to land on Phobos....landing on Mars you can bleed off energy/speed by using atmospheric braking. Could you swing around Mars, plow through the atmosphere, and then land on Phobos. Looks like any way to bleed off that speed without using fuel would be a huge plus.
We currently talk about going to Mars in a "one craft does all" in Starship. I know cost is an issue but wouldn't it be better to use more specialized crafts to go back and forth from surface to Low Terrestrial Orbit and use a Cycler or some variant for the long travel time between planets, as discussed by Buzz Aldrin's Cycler proposal? Another thought I have is things of use from a resource in abundance on Mars. Like Percolates. It is so abundant and something we would have to remove to make Martian soil useful, but is there anything useful to produce from the abundance of percolates?
I think Phobos is a fantastic place to research quantum tunneling into another dimension while researching potential new energy sources. It's a flawless plan, and absolutely nothing could go wrong.
Hi Fraser, I just watched one of your older vids (Can There Be Life On Planets Around Red Dwarf Stars? I really liked the way you gave us the facts straight off without any fluff. Any chance of some more like that?
Phobos is a natural Lunar Gateway Station for Mars🚀🚀
Deimos has the advantage of even less delta vee and a higher perspective, can keep a place on the surface in view longer. One could run a telepresence exploration program and retrieve samples from all over and check them out in a lab there.
@@bhatkat Ok, ok, you've won this argument🎖😊
Yes...Arguably Phobos is best destination in the solar system for an initial colonization effort. It has all the resources you'd need to build a rotating habitat inside the moon. Phobos's gravity is so low it would be similar to building in open space yet inside the moon you would have all the radiation and meteor protection you could want. The moon's resources could provide a basis for the colony's economy. Also you can also use Mars's atmosphere to slowdown when going to Phobos making the delta-v to get there a lot friendlier than anywhere else so near the sun. Leaving Phobos delta-V is way lower than Earth, Luna, or Mars.
@@bhatkat Aside from being smaller Deimos's metallicity isn't as rich as Phobos. Meaning there are fewer resources natively available. Also Deimos's orbital velocity is about 1km/s slower than Phobos. So when arriving from outside the Mars system it would take less delt-v to get to Phobos than Deimos. Which is the more important measure than delta-v needed to get from Mars to it's moons.
One downside which come to mind regarding Phobos instead of Mars is that the gravity is so weak, and Mars' gravity whould be more beneficial for humans, especially after sever month travelling folrom Earth in zero G.
thanks for a great show Fraser!
Thanks for watching.
Hibernation also means that the body's cellular repair mechanisms stop. During hibernation, radiation damage will accumulate and on revival the body would be confronted with all the damage at once. Unless radiation exposure can be reduced to levels even below that on the surface of Earth, hibernation is not going to be viable.
The reason that I probably asked the question about the hibernation and radiation there was a study done and it was found animals that were either in hibernation or torpor had a huge reduction of the effect that radiation had on their body
Frasier's discussion of how to cope with radiation on long-term voyages made me think of Omuamua as a possible 'alien spacecraft' from another system... " burrow into an asteroid" ... "you'd be insulated from radiation" ... "You could use the resources of the asteroid while on your voyage". How would we on Earth detect an alien presence within an asteroid that had been commandeered to be an interstellar craft?
What's the largest volume one time use spaceship or space station that can be launched on top of a Starship Booster?
as Starship is still under developement, the numbers change on a monthly basis, but at the moment the estimation is 100-150 t to LEO fully reusable and 300 t to LEO expendable - the actual number is rather growing than falling over time, while Elons earlier predictions were always optimistic to a ridiculous degree.
In regards to volume: The fairing has 9 m diameter and somewhere from 15-30 m height.
It would obviously depend what material you used and how you build it. If you can build an inflatable habitat, or one that otherwise folds out, it can be larger than the fairing allows.
@@PinataOblongata @AndreasPeters-r3e I picure a giant structural steel shell, 15-21m diameter or irregularly shaped, built to just survive launch empty and Starships bring the equipment to populate it.
DOOM IT IS!
Also don't forget! Phobos would make a great location for a Magnetic Particle Accelerator helping to bring positive ions to Mars surface/helping terraform & building an atmosphere + radiation shielding.
You missed one of the major advantages for a base on Pobos, remote control of robotic missions on Mars would have no appreciable lag when compared to controlling from Earth.
There is also the factor that it is far easier to return people and materials from Phobos than from Mars, and you cannot contaminate Mars from Phobos.
Would be good place to hide the Proto-Molecule too..🤔
That was Phoebe, not Phobos. Different place that sounds a bit similar. It is one of the largest asteroids in the belt.
@AndreasPeters-r3e haha yes you're right 👍
Sure, well now everyone knows... way to go.
Phoebe is a moon of Saturn.
Getting back from Mars is even easier than that if you combine making fuel on Mars with an Aldrin cycler. You have all the shielding on the cycler so all you need is to make enough fuel to launch from mars and catch up to the cycler, dock with it and then the crew move into the cycler and live there till you're almost back at Earth, they get back into what was the ascent vehicle and go back down to Earth.
I saw an interview, I think maybe on here, where they said that the aldrin cycler doesn't help because you still have to launch all the shielding and life support for a trip to Mars anyway, which is wrong. You only need enough shielding and life support on the launch vessel to get you to the cycler. You build the cycler with all the shielding and life support, maybe even some food crops to reduce your requirement to bring food with you.
You are going to need a space station in orbit around Mars or, better, a base on Phobos, if anything to be able to postpone the landing if, by the time you arrive, there is a planetary dust storm for example. At least you are going to be able to wait at your orbital base / station and decide to land or not, etc.
2:35 Yes, humanity has used much of the easily acquired natural resources.
However, it could take millions or even tens of millions of years for the next intelligent species to evolve on Earth. That's plenty of time for Earth to geologically replenish most of what humanity has taken. Also, the universe will likely help replenish many metals. In fifty thousand years, there will be few, if any, signs that we were ever here.
3:09 space crabs
2 astranuts EVA touch helmits. would they be able to hear eachother?
like 2 cups on string, or talking through heavy door, like putting wrench on ear and endgin block to hear skipping valves
Yes. But not very well. Here's the source of the problem: it's more advantageous to carry pure oxygen rather than your usual mix, 20% O2, 78% N2 because what we really care is the partial pressure of oxygen. No or very little N2 means less gas to filter. Also, less pressure means a less stiffer EV suit. And the problem is the sound doesn't carry very well at lower gas pressure.
@@milutzuk it is not about being very well. we will probbly need to know for emercency procedures. ensuring we know the last effords we can take. yeah we could just learn sigh launge but we can also use this "not well" technique and use it as a base to find new technology. perhaps a special rod can be used imbedded in the helmit that would be ideal for this so we can have it built in by default helping anyone in a situation where coms are out it is sunny and you would like to communicate something.
@@ThunderAxe52-i5m I see. Well, I'm doing electronics for 40 years and programming for 35 years. Today almost every module in my home automation system (Home Assistant) is made by me. So...there are a lot of ways to exchange sound, video, biological parameters, and suit telemetry between two suits in proximity which can give more information than helmets direct contact or only the voice. Besides, if some system is critical, then make it simple, hardened, and redundant. The only situation I can think of that can completely kill a simple, but sturdy basic communication electronics (let's say a low-power AM transceiver) and probably is not avoidable (one can avoid a solar flare) is an EMP, but then there are more concerns than not being able to communicate. Every suit would stop working, the vehicle you are using to move around (in space, on the Moon or Mars) would be dead. Now, if you raise the problem that a certain critical system doesn't have redundancy with another technology, I would do the same. But then, so the engineers who are designing the suit.
Phobos is the Gateway (like the Moons Gateway) to Mars. Lots of complaints about the Moons Gateway so if you don't like it, you wont like Phobos. I am OK with it either way and I am sure both will eventually have a base.
The protection of us from radiation can be with sleeping quarters and then suits instead of the whole ship. Another idea is the shuttle ship (built or asteroid) that continuously flys to Mars and back and we just dock with it, Once it is in orbit, little fuel is needed to maintain the orbit (it does not ever land). Note that hibernation can be mixed in here too. dock with the shuttle, sleep in a shielded chamber...etc. AI humanoids may be reliable enough by then to be the Captain/Pilot/Doctor to administer sleeping aids.
It might be possible in the future to boost Phobos so that it does not fall into Mars. The fuel to boost Phobos might actually be on Phobos already in the form of water or other volatiles.
A space base on Phobos ? It will be probably run by the UAC. I wonder if the starship can bring enough ammunitions.
The ammo will be in crates all over the place.
Fraser, the problem I see right off the bat is that the astronauts, after having been without decent gravity for months already, will land, instead of the 38% gravity of Mars, on Phobos, which probably has somewhere near zero gravity.
The issue with Phobos vs Mars is gravity as it relates to bone density loss, muscle atrophy, etc.
The main problem I see with turning people into popsicles is I don't wanna be imprisoned for a hundred years only to wake up and have an urge to crochet. . .
Makes me think of another movie :
"Are you human?"
"negative, I am a meat popsicle" . . .
Name those movies.
I don’t think hibernation is viable. Perhaps that’s because I haven’t seen the science behind it. Intergenerational ships I can wrap my head around.
For low cost Mars logistics is the Mars Cycler. We will need several UP Cyclers and serveral DOWN Cyclers.
Ps
Also, we will need a coms network covering the Moon and relay coms satalite and coms satalites around Mars.
This will enable wideband coms between Earth, Moon and Mars.
Hey Fraser, can you do an interview with an expert in high pressure physics? I want to learn all about metallic hydrogen.
Ooh, interesting, I'll see what I can find.
Noticed how difficult it is to operate drones on Mars? Light lag is a beast. But if the operator is in orbit that problem is almost nil.
Yup, great point. You can control a lot of tech from orbit.
I would love to hear the reason why the Arecibo message was sent to where it was?
It was aimed at M13 a globular cluster 25.000 lightyears away. The reason was that it is a large collection of stars that was available in the sky when the message was sent.
Martian space elevator in the future… change its orbit and tether materials will come in time. Exciting thought!
Can we use small nuclear reactors to power moon bases
18:50 Fun fact: the microwave was born from criostasis experiments. They used a modified aircraft radar to thaw the hamsters they had frozen before.
Rather than just one pit stop at phobos, if i have to decide, would plan to make a space base orbiting around venus. So first travel to our space station around earth, take some breath.. move to space station orboting venus take another breath Then use earth gravity assist to fly to mars much faster than directly flying to mars using all fuels. In between stopping on phobos will help for returning back to earth, to use gravity assist of mars.
How can I ask a question and get your answer?
You just did it.
@frasercain Ok, here it is. Why are all planets we see round-ish but solar systems and galaxies flat-ish? Why don't we see flat planets or round galaxies? Is it because of their movement, the materials they are made of, or perhaps the amount of mass has something to do with their shape?
Ask chat gpt, it won't tell you how bad your question is....
A base on Phobos & Deimos makes a lot more sense as a first step than onto Mars.
Would a gravitationally lensed gravitational wave signal be distorted and smeared and duplicated with delays, in the way that light signals are? Have we detected any like that?
In another 6 years things will change drastically.
Hey Frasier, I’ve read that 99.8% of the mass contained within the solar system is locked up in the sun. Is that a typical percentage for a star system? Does it depend on the type or size of star? Or is there no typical percentage?
We don't know yet. We haven't weighed enough star systems yet. Only detected a few exoplanets
wouldnt there be a significant problem with hibernation when it comes to muscle and bone atrophy?
Space base on Phobos sounds great and probably would be, but let's build a space habitat first
Life has already evolved on Earth to very advanced stages at least 3 times prior to our current civilization.
I don't see dolphins flying spaceships anytime soon but definitely would be hilarious to see
With the telescope events, could there be one on the moon? Like maybe when there's a half or less moon and focus on the terminator and see the shape of the craters and then on the limb and see the craters on the limb? Maybe even look at Apollo landing sites (I know we can't see anything from Earth, but just knowing THAT spot right there is where people were.
Edit. Just realised that if the moon was a toenail and the times worked out, Dr. Becky might come on and then could look as some other things too?
The octopus replace man? They may find the wheel easy to master, but fire will be a bit of challenge for them.
Presumably scientists have looked into small scale magnetic blisters to protect groups of astronauts on the surface?
It just seems that the focus is always on these massive large scale magnetospheres, enclosing the entire moon.
@FraserCain, I suggest you and your viewers look up Isaac Arthur, a futurist on YT. He has covered a lot of this already, including that we don't need some massive structure on a planet to make a magnetosphere. You just put up some bots in the L1 Lagrange point that use solar power to make magnetic fields that overlap, while also having structures that can filter and focus solar energy to Mars, making the sun look brighter. We have the tech to do this right now.
Some O'Neill cylinders would go great inside Phobos! There could be two O'Neill cylinders built within Phobos that would collectively have 64 square kilometers of habitable land, comparable to a county or small country! Depending on the population density, these Phobos ONeill cylinders could house several million people each. The first research station on Phobos could be a small rotating habitat.
I thought the O'Neil cylinders were supposed to rotate to create artificial gravity? WHAAA?! have rotating cylinders in a hollowed out Phobos ? ..... naaah that doesn't make sense :)
Another way to protect yourself against radiation is to get really really good at curing cancer and everything cancer-adjacent. In other words, bio-engineering.
If you were spacefaring & capable of forming stone with machine precision, add antigravity, and you have an armada of spacecraft without having to refine special alloys... i.e. Oumuamua or the Baltic anomaly.
Oh, just add antigravity? Cool, simple. 😂
@@PinataOblongata If you're expecting an elaboration into engineering specifics, Your expectations deserve disappointment.
I never understand how the human body can survive without Earth like gravity. As we've taken for granted the "artificial gravity" on all sci-fi movies and Star Trek of course. So, for me, until artificial gravity has been created, we can't go far for long surely?
Re MOXIE process - we really need to push here on Earth for development of the artificial hydrocarbons productions. Essentially we can use sunny places like Sahara desert to collect solar energy and use it to desalinate water and subsequently combine it with CO2 (imported from power stations) to manufacture methane
Is NASA going to fly Viper to the moon with instruments
18:40 Red Dwarf stasis chamber?
With the exception of energy, all of the resources are still here
Von Braun in his Collier's Weekly piece thought we would do hibernation
Since Phobos orbits above Mars at 3,700 miles plus or minus while our Moon is around 1/4 million miles it certainly makes sense to turn that small moon into a giant space station and transfer station.. Excavating deep inside would offer secure and shielded sheltered living space for thousands of workers and be just a short hop to the Martian surface.. The lack of gravity would be an issue for long term stays but as I have said many times in the past, direct missions from Earh to Mars and back are stupid and extremely challenging.. It is in a locked orbit and rotates once every 7.5 hours which matches its spin.. What would be the reverse G forces in a tunnel under the surface that follows this rotation knowing that it has a rough circumference of 21 miles added to the gravitational pull of Mars?? Would this generate enough rotational momentum gravity for human bodies not to deteriorate?? I have no idea how to do that math for even a guess of the G force..
Hibernation? Humans don't and i think it would hurt the human body.
Radiation.. Doesn't water help? Have layers of it as shielding? But maybe you'd need too much?...
Like I said, you need a meter of water.
Top of my head I think 1 meter of water would be sufficient protection against most radiation. I think I picked that up in an interview by JMG.
I read in a book years ago that a group of scientists think if Humans went extinct it would be rats that rise up in our place.
14:59 “People are just big samples, right?” - Fraser Cain
hey fraser did the astronauts who went to the moon have a spaceship with 1 meter thick walls?
Nope, but they only spent a week in space, not 18 months to Mars and back.
All these conspiracies regarding moon and the van Allen belt lot of conflicting information on how much you would be exposed to, love your channel thanks for responding!
Can moons have rings?.....A question for the next episode maybe.
Gidday from Australia, Fraser. A question for you on extraterrestrials. I look at probabilities. On the one hand we have beings that can co-exist with us...from incredible distances away...that just so happen to cope with our environment. On MY other hand...we may well have co-existing hominin cousins that achieved High Science well before the last Ice Age and THAT is who are buzzing around out there. Saying that, some may well "be" extraterrestrials as tens of thousands of years in microgravity affected their evolution. Ancient texts, mythologies, and architecture attest to this consideration. But...there is something more salient about this. As plausible as I think it is...why the silence about it? Why is this rarely discussed? Are they in control of what we do?
Phobos base sounds like something that would get like 20cm closer to mars every time you used it
Phobos has microgravity not a million miles unlike the ISS. Escape velocity is about 11mph IIRC, within a sprint... It's a potentially interesting place but best considered a space station, certainly not a 'base'.
Hibernation? I sleep one night and I'm a wreck in the morning. You're going to need a lot of coffee.
Isnt the gravity on Phobos so low that walking is impossible? And if you run and jump you actually launch yourself into orbit?
Fraser talks to me more than my own family
Ask them more questions about space?
If this phobos place are suitable for establishing a space station, what about a space elevator down to mars? Wouldn't that be possible also?
no lol
Phobos’ orbit is fairly eccentric so when it is at its closest it’s about 280km closer than when it is at its furthest.
Yes, people have proposed building space tethers from Phobos down into the atmosphere of Mars. But that's quite a megaproject.
For a space elevator, on mars you could (in theory) build one from steel. Due to the smaller gravity, you don´t need SciFi material science to pull it off. That doesn´t mean it´s feasible right now.
@frasercain - when Elon Musk have his colony on Mars up and running I build the space tether on phobos to make things easier for everyone