I think they tried to inject a moral angle into the situation without properly thinking it through and they wrote themselves into a corner. It's like um whatever that episode about killing the Moon was called, but that was worse cause it was actually suppose to be about the moral issue. Actually Doctor Who has this very odd idea of morality. The Beast Below sets up the vote on making the space wale the base of the ship but it frames it as something so horrible that you'd rather forget about it. Ignoring the context that not doing it would have meant every human died and arguably it isn't even moral wrong. It just means human have to become parasites to survive.
@@thhunter This is s character trait of the Doctor for decades. And it has been deconstructed by "leftist" writers for nearly as long. I guess the issue of the right is that they rarely can even grasp the concept of self criticism or have to cut short of any self reflection whose outcome could be different than self praise. Also compare to Davros roasting the 10th Doctor for not using actual weapons, but instead turning his companions into weapons - sometimes even into suicide attackers.
@@moloids You clearly haven't watched any classic who. Outside of Chibnall stories, it's barely a thing in nuWho either. ruclips.net/video/lzmnPs64K74/видео.html
What do you think about the Doctor's solution of trapping the spiders in a room and waiting until they die of suffocation or starvation? It seems like shooting them would be much more humane in this situation. Also what about the spiders that weren't in the hotel that were never dealt with. Also the toxic waste is still there so couldn't another mutation happen again? The ending left so much unresolved and unquestioned and I don't like that.
I felt it was a bit unresolved. You still have the source of the mutation. There was loads of spiders, possibly more in the city. It was like they went with the, kill the main vampire or werewolf and it stops the course on all the victims. Kill the mommy and they all fall. When it came back from commercial I thought I’d missed something.
@@eddiezanryder It's made clear that the only mutant spider that left the hotel went to Yaz's neighbor because she works at the research lab and came into contact with the mutant spider's pheromones. All the other weird spider activity around the city were from normal spiders reacting to the presence of the mutant spiders.
While the fake-Trump was annoying and distracting, I found more issue with the ending. I understand the anti-weapons message, but how is it less cruel to lock the spiders in a small room and wait for them to slowly die? (I think that was the plan...) The Doctor seemed to be more comfortable watching the huge one die slowly of suffocation rather than put it out of its misery. I think it would’ve been more impactful if she’d had a moment of “I’m so so sorry” and had to put the poor creature down, rather than fake-trump running in and shooting it.
The thing I'm going with regarding the Doctor's actions is that it was the better of two evils. They've done this before in Who. They couldn't let the spiders go or live so they had to die. This way no-one directly killed any of the spiders, aside from the businessman and it was as natural as possible under the circumstances. Was it a nice way to go? No. Would it have been better to shoot them? Maybe. That's the only way I can see with the Doctor's thinking.
lwaves yeah I think you’ve got a point, I’m just not sure they really made a big enough issue of it? There was no discussion of the best outcome and it feels a little forced towards “well at least the Doctor and companions have no blood on their hands” I just feel like it comes across a little hypocritical, and I didn’t like that they basically just glossed over it
The Toxic waste = giant spiders bit is probably a head nod to the Pertwee classic story 'The Green Death' where a company is pumping toxic waste down a closed coal mine. I was a bit frustrated (in a way) that they didn't reference that story or 'Planet of the Spiders' where giant spiders actually killed the Doctor... You think she might remember that.
As TheLoneKnight says, the Doctor does remember it and she referenced it. Makes me wonder if it was the same company doing the same thing. Different name maybe but possibly the same company.
@@hotdog1214 It was in the lab scene, where she talks about how, if a strand of spider silk were as thick as a pencil, it would be strong enough to stop a plane. Graham said: I'd like to see that, and she said: "I did, once."
100% agree with your review. That character was beyond a distraction and this episode is going to age so badly that they might as well have had fidget spinners as the monsters.
Big evil corporate guy have been villains long before Trump. Even in Dr who, look at voyage of the damned. Yeah the references might be outdated at some point but it's gonna be a while till people forget who Trump or Ed Sheeran is
@Sebastian G I'm very on board with evil corporate villains. Van Statten in Dalek is a prime example of how a character like that should be done. It's different in this case however as Nathaniel said it's about style and context. Van Statten and the head from Voyage of the Damned wouldn't run for office because they would already own it. The episode will age badly because if it feels like a political cheap shot now its impact is only going to diminish over time. In the light of other issues such as the ones Nathaniel raised last week I feel like if that man is going to be brought up he should be tackled head on with something a lot more heavyweight. At the moment there are trolls strawmanning this point to have a go at the entire series which is annoying because it appears to be building up really well with a more character driven focus.
I am LOVING Whittaker but this episode just kind of...stopped at a certain point. Did anyone else get the feeling that this was planned to be a two-parter like in a normal series? But it was waved by so many good lines: "Nadia, you've made an awesome human." "Very plural." "You can't be president if you fired Yaz's mum." With Whittaker, the show is just so fun to watch!
Yes, it's odd that the Doctor suddenly seemed to lose interest in the situation, and decided to go with things unfinished. Sheffield still had a spider problem and a hotel sitting on a pile of toxic waste; the hotel owner was free to continue his career as before.
Only bit I disliked was the fact that they felt the need to mention Trump for NO REASON. They did this last episode with Obama too, they keep bringing up real world US politics despite Britain being heavily fictionalized usually.
It didn’t make any explicit anti-Trump statements though? Just said that this fictional rival of him doesn’t like him. That’s not at all partisan, the character yeah but it’s an old archetype anyway so.
Yup, that niggled me too. The character would have worked just as well, if not better, as an unscrupulous businessman without name-dropping Trump. Classic Who often used to make political points, but they did so in an allegorical way, without making overt references to living people.
I think the quality is hugely improved when you're sitting next to someone whose afraid of spiders. Not only are they thoroughly terrified, but you're thoroughly entertained. And besides, I'd sit through any episode just to see that amazing time vortex.
Like you I loved the way the TARDIS was hurtling through the time vortex, only to emerge at a point where we saw hundreds/thousands/millions of other vortexes to go down. Apart from the opening titles it's finally a visualisation of what I always imagined in my head.
Whittaker is still probably the least defined Doctor for this many episodes. By this point Eccleston had been revealed to be the last of the Time Lords and was dealing with that. Tennant had his "no second chances" moment Smith had a montage of his goofiness. Capaldi had set up his entire arc with "am I a good man?". Sure, Whittaker had the screwdriver scene and that was cool but there's no character tied to that just yet. She's a great actress, she just needs something to work with.
There was the moment in The Ghost Monument where the rags told her she was "afraid of herself and her ability to lead" and I think we are seeing some of that, she always seems to hold back on outwardly leading like she's scared of it
@@alfiethomas5632 You know, I hope this is a deliberate arc, because I've been wanting Thirteen to have those moments of taking charge. We had that in the first episode, but since then there have been some strange moments for The Doctor, like that moment of panic in The Ghost Monument when she thought they were stuck on Desolation, or when she absolutely failed to call out Robertson for shooting the spider where past Doctors would have thoroughly ruined him somehow. She even hesitates asking her new companions to stay with her. So I'm really hoping this is a planned arc that she will grow out of, because I otherwise really like this Doctor.
@@Stray7 You might even say she's a bit cowardly, which means it will have to be some kind of progression arc or she wouldn't keeping to the promise of her name
I thought they were going to do something with the Timeless child like they mentioned in episode 2 but they haven't mentioned it and so I can't see a story arc or anything building. I mean they might have an underlying one you never realised was a story arc until the end like in series 4 when the planets were going missing
Same here. Just kill the OBVIOUS direct threat and be over with it. Atleast 3 deaths due to the spiders. =Yes killing them would be 100% justified and the right thing to do.
On the topic of the use of the Sonic Screwdriver, Jodie's exaggerated gestures when using it made me realise how much I miss the way the Classic Doctors wielded their screwdrivers. They way they hold them almost like tuning forks is pretty charming, and in my opinion far more receptive than the Modern Doctors pointing their screwdrivers at things like they're magic wands... which they've sorta become.
Bad Guys So Far: Episode 1 - Actually kills someone, but has to cheat in order to hunt down and kill a harmless human. Overall generic badguy threat level. Episode 2 - Rich Guy setting up a death race on a planet where Sniper Robots struggle to hit a fat guy and floating dish clothes whisper sweet nothings in your ear. Episode 3 - Space Nazi who can't kill anyone and changes bus schedules!!!! NOOOO!!! Episode 4 - Spiders that suffocate themselves and are easily tricked into walking into a box. Anyone else starting to feel a little....underwhelmed?
For sure, the villains of these 4 episodes have all been either one dimensional, nonsensical (in regard to their motives/backstory), non threatening or used for some form of moral posturing, or a combination of at least 3 of these. I'm just hoping that one future villain only has ONE of those flaws (which is an incredibly low bar to set), but my expectations are just *that* low atm.
I feel like any episode of DW could be summed up to sound that way. Most of them have elements of absurdity, convenient coincidence, or aborted threats.
@@serrasedai yeah i agree, you could even take some amazing episodes of Doctor Who and make them sound underwhelming. Heaven Sent - The Doctor gets trapped in a castle and has to punch his way through a wall Midnight - a train breaks down, people get paranoid and blame the doctor Empty Child - A bomb falls on a kid and turns him into a zombie but it's actually a space ambulance that heals him Vincent and The Doctor - The Doctor, Amy and an artist have to kill an invisible alien You can sum up any DW story and make it sound underwhelming. I agree that 1,2, 4 of the new season have all been naff but Rosa was more than a space nazi trying to change bus schedules.
Dan B Rosa was a good historical episode in the way that it is a history lesson. The villain was underwhelming though and for me I don’t watch Dr who to see history (I’d watch a documentary) like I like when history is intermixed in the plot but not when it literally is just a history lesson if that makes any sense lol. To each is own though.
needed to be a two parter. i know Chibnall seems to be against those. but if you look back. they are the better episodes. of mordern who. it gives you more time with the characters.
Koba I don’t see why. I think this episode used its time wisely, and I don’t see what it could’ve done with a whole other 45 minutes that wouldn’t just be padding.
+Koba Whilst a double episode does give you more time with the characters and plot, I don't think this episode warranted more time. There was enough to fill what they had and any more time would have been stretching it too much in my opinion. Also, Chibbers isn't against two-parters, he just isn't doing any this season.
strongly disagree. 2 parters are almost always terrible. aliens of london + world war 3, daleks in manhattan + evolution of the daleks, time of angels + flesh and stone, the rebel flesh + the almost people, the zygon invasion + the zygon inversion... and then there's 2 parters that start well, and then the 2nd episode is utter garbage like heaven sent + hell bent, and world enough and time + the doctor falls. 2-part episodes are almost always a problem in some way or another. and the less said about 'the pyramid at the end of the world' + 'the lie of the land' the better.
BlasterMaster I haven’t watched this episode, but chibnall’s writing does seem to have a lot of “what was the point” to it. I love the tone, but yes, there does seem to be more emphasis on the exterior, than on the actual plot.
I was kinda hoping the doctor would have whispered to Robertson’s secretary “don’t you think he looks tried?” Or something just to give him some kind of punishment
Yeah, I'm feeling the same way about it now. It's okay to make a point when facing down a big bad but not everytime and especially not when it's a door!
Looking back, Matt flourished the sonic a lot as well, but he made it look *good*. Key differences being that his movements are much more swift, and he didn't do the same flourish every time.
@@eirei0789 and he didn't do it all the time. Sometimes he'd use it like any other old tool. A good example would be when River asked him to do some frequency thing with the sonic, I think it was the start of episode 3 or 4 of season 6.
I think its ok every once in a while; Ten and Eleven sometimes brandished it like they were going to 'assemble a cabinet' at their enemies but doing it every time just makes it really noticeable and makes me laugh out loud (which I'm sure is not the desired reaction). Its not even the pointing per se but rather the big circular arm movement. I began noticing she did it maybe 4 or 5 times in Ghost Monument but didn't see it in Rosa so thought she might have broken the habit, but alas no. I’ve come to the conclusion that the power cell she nabbed from the Stenza pod was not a power source but in fact some gizmo that stores kinetic energy so she has to wind it up before she can use it. :O)
Loving Jodi but Chris Chibnal has yet to win me over. At first it was the fact that he had two episodes where he didn't kill anyone making the Threat much less obvious. But now I realise there is a far weirder Chibnal trope that slightly reduces the great episodes otherwise. He's building fantastic threats and great concepts but then just takes 5 minutes to beat the big bad of the week. Perfect example is the Spiders being scary af but beating them with music and a gun. Nah
Linda Balck yeah he doesn’t know how to wrap up his episodes. His style also just doesn’t fit the show and it can be seen in his older episodes before he took over. They really should have gotten someone else 🤷♀️
I'm really sad because I love Jodie's Doctor, she's taken to the role so well. But this series feels a bit flat and Its a shame that the whole 'female doctor' thing will get the blame when it isnt her letting the series down at all :( really hope the second half of the season pulls through.
I know you didn’t quite mean it this way, but when you described it as feeling flat, it gave me the image of what I’ve been missing so far: effervescence. The writing has frequently been so plodding. I really prefer Who when it takes narrative risks; with all of time and space in the writers’ hands, it seems like a waste to knock out old standards. (I feel like this was Chib’s cover version of Green Death with spiders rather than maggots, and Trump rather than environmentalism.) Sometimes the risks don’t quite work, and you get an In the Garden or Kinda, but the risks are really what keep it fresh. It may be cynical, but I get the impression that the creators thought that casting a woman would be more of a risk than it was, and it’s made them more complacent in their other creative decisions? Hopefully I’m wrong.
I kinda feel the same way, so far it's been passable and entertaining enough to get me excited for the next episode, and they haven't done anything bad enough for that to happen yet... but i've felt that way about Doctor Who for a while, actually I felt exactly the same way about Capaldi's run too, I really loved him as the Doctor, i thought he was perfect for it ! but the writing and the side characters and everything was so un inspired I felt that he and we'd been robbed of a great Doctor Who series because of that ..
The whole series so far has been meh for me. Chibnall is such a boring writer. I really don't see Chibnall taking any sort of risks with the show. Changing the gender and being more diverse is just surface change. I want different, bold, thought provoking sci-fi. Your likely to balls up sometimes doing that but at least it's different. I think Whittaker has been miscast and needs to tone it down a bit, I just don't buy it when she has to be authoritative. I'm really hoping her Doctor evolves and we get to see more shades to her besides over enthusiastic. Emma Thompson or Tilda Swinton would of been much better choices.
@@shaun9631 She says all her lines in a comedic, kids show style and has yet to be dark or authoritative in 4 episodes. Each doctor has been dark on their first episodes. I think her never having seen an episode of doctor who and Chris being adamant doctor who will be for the kids now is affecting Jodie's non doctor performance. Also, the acting from the Hollyoaks double has been bland and bad.
Anyone noticed how similar the first four episodes of this series to the first four episodes of Series 10? The Pilot and The Woman Who Fell to Earth - The Doctor got new companions, battle something pretty unexplainable at first, the last few minutes lead into the second episode. Smile and The Ghost Monument - Set somewhere seems desolate, had robots, futuristic looking, last few minutes also lead into the next episode. Thin Ice and Rosa - Set in a historical era where racism is still a thing. Knock Knock and Arachnids in the UK - Back on Earth, battles something based on earthly creatures.
Kinda makes sense. First episode of the series being set on Earth to introduce the new character(s) to the audience, having familiar surroundings so instead of explaining an alien world more time is spent on introducing character(s). Second episode going into the future/outer space, to get new audiences introduced into the sci-fi-universe. Third episode then being set in a historical era to illustrate the use of the TARDIS for time travel. (also, about the racism: There is barely any historical era on earth without at least some racism, so any episode including non-white main characters will probably have some small moments relating to that - with Rosa it was admittedly the base of the episode, but considering who the episode was about, it was to be expected. With Bill in thin ice there was only one moment of it, and similar moments happened way back with Martha) Fourth episode back on earth to tie the show back to "our" reality, in order to show that even tho theres a lot of fun to be had with time travel / outer space, theres still adventures to be had on earth beyond the first episode. Its a pretty good way to start off with new audience, and was done before back with Eccleston - the first four episodes were Rose (new companions, fighting something on earth); End of the World (space station in the far future); The Unquiet Dead (back in historical period); and Aliens in London (Back on Earth).
I agree with the Trump not Trump character. He was pointless. I despise Trump and everything he stands for, but having a parody of him in this episode for no reason just annoys me. I also have a problem with the way Yaz is being written, she's got next to no substance to her character. Her family felt more like real and interesting characters than her, I just feel Chibnell doesn't know what to do with her and if that's the case, why is she there in the first place? I also agree with the spider/horror thing. It's lazy. Weeping Angels, Gas mask child, Vashta Narada are all great examples of how to do a good horror villain in Who, throwing spiders in there is just a way to lazily scare people like me with arachnophobia. Also can we talk about how the Doctor dealt with these spiders? As a typical Brit, I'm very anti-gun, that said, it would be better for the massive spider to be shot than to have it slowly suffocate. Furthermore, wtf actually happened to the other spiders? Did I miss something or were they also just left to starve/suffocate in the panic room? THe Doctor's moral compass was way *way* off in this episode and at least in some episodes there's a reason for it (no matter how good or bad the reason ;) ) whereas here she's just happy to let them all suffer, without saving them or giving them a mercy killing (again, unless I missed something?). The best part of this episode, and I think this series so far, for me at least, is Graham. I wasn't expecting to like him at all but the performance and writing are really great where he's concerned. Even better than, I'd say, The Doctor's writing and performance (any time Whittaker has to portray a saddened Doctor it comes across very awkward and almost cartoonish and I don't know why, considering I've seen her do said emotion in other roles perfectly). He's a very complex character who's fun and interesting to watch who has a lot of depth to him. Anyway, only recently found your channel but I love the content, your opinions (even if I disagree with some here and there ;) ) and will stay tuned for future reviews, so thanks for the content! :D
Funny thing is that Yaz' sister makes fun of her having no friends and no interests except her job. So the writers are not doing that by accident, one assumes. Yaz not being able to answer Rosa's question of where she wants to be with anything except "in charge" also resonates with that. (I know plenty of people like that in real life, actually more women than men.) I hope we will get a nice character arc for her exactly working that issue of hers out.
moloids I understand that there are plenty of people like that, but they still have clear personalities without necessarily knowing where they are going. Yaz on the other hand isn’t being written like a 3 dimensional character, she feels very 2D. Take me for example, I don’t really know what I want to do, I don’t know where I’m going other than ‘to uni’ and I don’t really have any friends, yet I still have a clear cut personality on paper and don’t act like the literal definition of exposition. I am hoping she gets some great arc as going into this series, I thought she’d be the one I liked the most (so perhaps I’m a bit biased with disappointment), but she currently doesn’t feel like a real person, especially when you compare her to Graham or Ryan. Not being sure about what to do with their life and not having any real depth or substance are two different things when writing characters (though I couldn’t do better, that’s kinda why I’m not an author or screenwriter), the former poses for an interesting arc, the latter is just poor writing. Still, tis only my opinion, I just really want a lot more from her than we’re currently getting. To some extent with Rosa, or definitely with this episode it was a perfect chance to flesh her character out, and it was done a little bit, but not enough! There is an upcoming episode (that I won’t name in case you don’t know) that will definitely be a great chance for her character to shine and I hope that it’s taken!
As a US viewer I thought (hoped maybe?) they cut the show down for more commercials. We lost about 10 minutes off of one of the Christmas Specials a few years back, and I know they routinely cut old episodes for marathons etc. I didn't think they did for new eps anymore though. So they didn't? None of that actually got resolved?
I'd like to think that what the Doctor actually did was offscreen and that she only lured them into the panic room temporarily. While they were in the room, she engineered a giant spider-safe box that she later used to transport the spiders to a planet that had enough food for the spiders to live and/or supported other large spiders. Then the spiders lived out long, prosperous lives. The end. :)
@@thekernewekpenguin It took me until this episode to actually attribute those traits to Yaz. (While the "I want to be in charge!" thing in Rosa on its own pissed me more off in the sense that it was a cliché way of writing a sassy character.) So for me it's a definite step forwards, turning one dimensional "sassy ethnic girl" into two dimensional "career girl without depth (that is still used as point for viewer identification)". I could be wrong and Yaz just goes back being "sassy ethnic girl" and nothing else. That's why I wrote "hope" above. Still: for me Arachnids in the UK was the 1st step forward for Yaz. Somehow I have a bad feeling next will be a step back for her, but I want to be surprised.
My thoughts: The spider sound effects horrified me! Doctor: "I don't know whether I'm nervous or socially awkward." I'm glade they didn't fall into the cliché of "It's this but no its not its an alien." Seeing Graham dealing with the lost of grace is truly heart breaking, and so well done. I originally though this would be a Yaz focused episode which for the most part it was although they did also delve into Graham and Ryan's relationship once again, which I always love to see! I thought we might get more of a reason why Yaz was important to the group what she sort of add because if I'm honest if I was told to get rid of one companion it would be Yaz. There's a spider in the bath, a spider in the bath. Hehe it was an nursery rhyme my mum used to sing to me, that's all I could think during the bath scene. The idea of the mother spider dying from being so big was extremely sad and kinda reminded me of the Matt smiths Doctors episode with Vincent van goth, at the end in the church, I'm not sure why. I really liked the intro with the Tardis going through space all those purples and other colours, absolutely stunning! Really good. I don't want to say anything about the trump references, especially with what's going on in America currently. The Doctor seems to be shaping out to be a person oriented Doctor in that she asked the girl for permission to open the flat door, the way she tries to do small talk, she seems like she just wants to be a Freind of the universe, unless you use a gun or knife of course. Stereotypical jerk character.
The "beast" in the van Gogh episode had no choice in it's actions, nor did the spider. The Beast was deaf so kicked out of it's clan and went mad, the spider was just doing what spiders do but had been interfered with, not by alien tech, but human greed. Both outcomes are from a power struggle with no give, so the comparison is not that big of a stretch.
@@sutekh233 Mmmh yeah. It felt very similar, although I was thinking more about the emotional reactions to the spider how the Doctor interacted with it and how it was portrayed in that moment.
@@Greasyyyhair Ahh, in that case in both eps, it's sympathy (or perhaps empathy, the doc is an outcast), from either the beast, or the doctor. First, do no harm after all.
Spiders terrify me, I have arachnophobia and I hate they’ve wasted an episode which could have make me hide behind the sofa with this incredible mess. I don’t want from Doctor Who some banal and trivial lessons on the dangers of toxic waste, cheap psychological and sociological issues when a young girl tries to free herself from the bonds of a traditional family. I don’t want Doctor Who to become the rough copy of a historical docufiction . I want from Doctor Who solid, brilliant, amazing science fiction stories with a pinch of allegorical references to the present that add sarcasm and a higher level of meaning appealing for a grown-up audience Jodie Whitaker and Bradley Walsh are great but they can’t express their full potential in these painful scripts
Quote: "I want from Doctor Who solid, brilliant, amazing science fiction stories with a pinch of allegorical references to the present that add sarcasm and a higher level of meaning appealing for a grown-up audience." OMG this. A million times this.
I agree with you, but I wouldn't hold my breath about getting any good SF stories from the current writing team. Maybe in a couple of years will get some good DW.
Definitely, from someone that gained arachnophobia directly from Planet of the Spiders, this episode could have been sooo much more. Mutant Giant Spiders...Psychic? No; spitting acid venom? nope; partially cyberized as part of failed weapons program? No; I'd go for them wearing garbage boxes as helmets and talking in shrill voices about the kingdom of the Eight-Legs and praising The Great One would have been better. Even some unexplained learning behavior would have had a chilling effect. What if in the neighbor's apartment after the Doctor put down the spider repellent foam, the spider tentatively puts it's leg over it on to the floor on the other side? Everyone sees that the spider has learned this is not a real threat and make a mad dash out of the apartment slamming the door behind them, with the Doctor using the sonic to make sure it stays locked, after the handle starts to jiggle. I get more dramatic feeling of our hero's being in mortal danger from a Disney cartoon than this episode of Doctor Who.
I'm terrified of spiders, but I actually enjoyed this episode. They were scary, but they weren't really evil. They weren't doing anything other than surviving in their own minds. I thought the Trump parody was hilarious and worked really well. He was a nice piece of comic relief while still being evil. He was self serving, bad tempered...basically, he was Trump with all the negative aspects turned way up. He was important to the story because he was this self serving, bad tempered, etc type guy. It needed to be someone like that and writers will often look to the real world for inspiration. I'm sure they did the same thing with Thatcher at one point, although it wasn't quite as blatant. Someone like Trump is perfect for that role. This was probably the weakest episode thus far and the ending felt a bit rushed. Trump clone killed the big spider, but what about the rest? Do they all just die when the food runs out? What about the ones that weren't in the hotel?
The doctor being non violent felt a bit rich when right after she decides to force the baby spiders through a slow death and then she can't give the large spider a quick death. It just felt like mixed messaging.
I'm genuinely thinking the only reason for Robertson was to shoot the big spider at the end because they couldn't think of another way to end the episode. Classic Chibnall, unfortunately.
From the perspective of a person living in the UK (not representative of everyone but of large portion) mocking trump is a bit of past time for us. It's enjoyable for a lot of people and lots of TV shows use Trump. Mocking any political figure (not mattering who it is) including satire of the royal family is very fun. The episode also highlights the fact that Trump is pro-gun while they are outlawed in the UK. Very much a UK target audience for this episode.
2003johnson2 fair enough. And sometimes it can be really funny. Your country has some great Trump jokes. I guess as an American in the UK, this kind of portrayal of Americans gives us the impression that this is how you see us, and combined with life in general, can make things complicated for expats. The anti-American sentiment has increased where I live in North Wales to the point that it can get really uncomfortable for me at times (I posted about this somewhere else on the board). This is because Trump is such a (insert the worse word you can think of here), and this has far-reaching effects. Still, a good parody can be the best thing going no doubt.
I love the humor that the Brits have. I watch a lot of British talk shows and I know how you guys love to take the piss out of politicians and the royal family. But in all honesty I think Trump is just too easy of a target at this point. It's preaching to the choir, an easy way to get people to be agreeable to you.
I would call the character a big walking stereotype gun wielding capitalist American. If you can't see the satire in that characterisation then it's a shame and the episode was probably lacking. Jokes and content don't land and work for everyone. No need to call people 'sad' and 'pathetic' though just because something didn't resonate with you. By the way - what does unironically mean?
@@2003johnson2 Brits used to be good at satire. If I wanted this sort of lazy Trump garbage I'd just watch Saturday Night Live. The stereotypical gun wielding capitalist American, as portrayed in liberal media, doesn't actually exist outside the heads of europeans and the American left. That's why it's not a good character. Stereotypes, when used for comedic purposes, work best when they have at least a bit of grounding in reality. Like, say Apu from the Simpsons. Oh wait, he went down the memory hole. Forgive me for the badthink.
I really hate that they are focusing on American politics. I don't want to watch a show that puts a focus on politics. I get enough of it in our day to day lives. I watch Doctor Who to get away from political issues. It's just annoying.
Yeah, I say keep politics with politics and let the fans just be fans of the show without having to deal with all of the politics. But maybe there won't be that much from now on.
@@moloids I have mostly seen the New Who. I've seen a few of the 1st Doctor and one of another Doctor in classic who (back when it was on Netflix), but I was still a toddler/preschooler when Doctor Who went on the hiatus back in the day.
I'm not liking this season at all!! Not one bit.. it's full of lazy writing with lame stories and just plain boring... :( Oh, we won't kill spiders but we will lock them in a room to slowly STARVE them to death. How about using the Tardis to send the spiders to another planet? Is that so hard?? No, it is not! It was just lazy writing...
I hated the way the spider researcher accused the business man of not taking responsibility for the giant spiders. Surely the person to blame is her! She released a genetically modified spider into the world that resulted in the deaths of at least 3 people and she blames the man who owns the company that collected it. He didn't even decide to make the mine a landfill someone at his company did that. Why not make the spider researcher a mad scientist villain or the business man more active/competent to there was actually an antagonist. This came across as the writer(s) trying to make a political statement about America, who watches the Doctor for politics? Morality, yes. Fun fantasy adventures yes, but writers please keep your political views out of it. The thing felt like a first draft that needed a bit more polish. Still I liked most of it.
it was his bussiness (meaning that he is responsible for what they do or do not do) that didn't dispose of the waste properly, where as she did (she gave it to a company who were supposed to get rid of it correctly), so yeah it is his fault at the end of the day not hers.
@@lwaves oh, who did pass on a living GM spider onto the waste disposal company? Who was it that failed to check if it was dead before letting it leave the lab? She is not 100% responsible for everything that happened as the spiders mutated further once out in the wild, however if the researchers had followed their own procedures for disposing of these poor animals no one would be dead.
@@charlestownsend9280 OK I see your point, he is in charge and the buck stops with him. Legally I can understand that, but the guy is so incompetent it did not feel narrative satisfying. Maybe they could of established that he knew there was a risk but did it anyway to save money. Greed is a better motivate than stupidity, no?
Jono McFarland well he knew about the landfill and that his company was cutting corners, yet willingly did nothing about it and happy built a hotel over the toxic waste. also yes the people in the lab do hold a tiny ammount of blame for not realising that one of the subject wasn't dead but if it had been disposed of properly then it wouldn't have mattered.
Anyone think that maybe Robertson's had a good?... Hear me out, his intentions are completely wrong but shooting the spiders does seem more humane. The giant spider was suffering and it was kinder the shoot it than force it to suffer more. Also the other spiders, what did they actually do to them. Are they just going to leave them in the panic room to starve to death?????
Agreed. Such a strange decision, and written so self righteously. It reminded me of, in the first episode, the Doctor tells the Affirmations Guy “you had no right!” and it was written as though it was self evident, but just felt out of place. Except in this episode, it wasn’t just a passing comment, but the actual resolution to the episode. It really didn’t work for there to be such a moralistic message, but the morals behind it be so questionable. Even the logic of the resolution crumbles under any scrutiny.
Honestly, the snooty, arrogant, and dangerously irresponsible rich bloke is an ancient archetype that Trump has sort of eclipsed by becoming president. This story with this explanation required a lot of mismanagement and negligence on a corporate level funded by a very rich man who had to be there to explain what we were seeing. From there, they likely realized that the connection was going to be made anyway, so they just sort of ran with it. In for a penny, in for a pound, as they say. Besides, a hotel would make for a pretty solid set piece for a spider chase. As far as I'm concerned, the only point where they went too far was having him run for president. That served no purpose to the plot whatsoever and had no satisfying conclusion. It did provide a simpler motivation for keeping things under wraps, but honestly, being as public a figure as he was, they didn't need it. All it did was make this already blatant subtext into text.
but even the archetype is, as you put it, ancient... the "big bad corporate white man who's only in for the money at any cost" and the "toxic waste is bad for the enviroment you guys!" reeks so bad of the eighties...
"They hit on a notion like what's something the doctor could deal with... a big spider, yeah, how about a bunch of big spiders, how about like some big spiders and then like one really big spider." Sums up Planet of the Spiders from Pertwee's last story from season 11 of classic doctor who.
Trump 2.0 was my biggest issue in this episode, I'm honestly annoyed he got to walk away with zero consequences. I don't have a problem with shows getting political if they fit it into the episode or series in a way that's believable but when it's just put there with a big old bullseye on it it just bugs me. Honestly if we take out this one character the episode is pretty good, it's not the best so far of the series, but it's good. I'm really enjoying the companions we've got and that we're learning about them as we go instead of having one big domestic episode/episodes about them. I think Graham is my favourite again, glad they actually gave him a thought out reason for staying with the doctor and not just some throw away line. I feel like this is anothrt case of good ideas on paper with a few just thrown in with basic explanations, I was expecting some kind of legit genetic mutation and not just "oh yeah, toxic waste and a corpse but not really will do" Kind of glad they went with spiders as monsters of the week because I'm arachnophobic and it's just in time for halloween c':
I agree. I don't mind that they had this character, had they done something like maybe jarred him into a change of heart... or finding a heart... or something. I mean, what happened to him and hotel after he shot the spider?
I know I may have commented way too much on this, but RTD's explanation for the missing bees in Series 4 was that bees were aliens. Bees were freaking aliens. But I would still prefer that over toxic waste making spiders big
As a Douglas Adams fan (so long, and thanks for all the fish! - the dolphins), that didn't bother me too much. But yeah, I can see where it's a lurch for some folks.
JEEVES go back and watch this from the begining of the season, or go to season 8-9. Season 7 is the worst in new who so i dont blame you for dropping out then, i did too. But this season is much more about the characters than the monsters so far so starting on episode 4 youre missing out on alot.
@@GuanoLad I felt like I was being punched in the face with how much they were shoving the metaphors at me. I hate using this expression, but i actually felt like my intelligence was insulted with not-Trump; crazily holding a gun and saying *"THIS IS WHAT'S GONNA PUT ME IN THE WHITE HOUSE".* At one point, I just threw out my hands and said "I don't care".
I personally like how, it'd be clever if it was intentional,, that the interactions with Thirteen treats her companions have their foundations in Twelve's experience. That she can't guarantee that they'll be safe and she tells them that flat out, yes, given Twelve lost most of his companions in tragic circumstances. And that she doesn't want to say goodbye to them when.....Twelve spent quite a lot of time in other people's company around Series 10 time (River/Nardole/Missy/Bill), and he hasn't really had a chance to spend time alone, and Thirteen looked genuinely sad about dropping them off.
Agreed. Also, my headcanon is that her repulsion around guns, even when it doesn’t necessarily make logical sense (no guns but suffocation ok? no guns but emp blast ok?) has everything to do with the memory of Bill with that enormous hole blasted through her.
i think the episode was pretty solid except for that one character. i dislike Trump and i didn't mind a few jokes about him in television back in 2016 and such but now Trump jokes have been made so much it just feels like lazy humor at this point. the rest of the episode was pretty great though.
I agree, but I did like that they didn’t necessarily take any position on Trump himself. I just remember overhearing a TV show where the villain just randomly said “let’s make America great again” as he goes off to do evil things. I think I’m fine with it as long as they don’t actually try to say anything about Trump himself. And this is coming from someone who also dislikes Trump btw.
Dat Fishe Boi yeah i get that. i don't mind shows being political, especially Doctor Who because it's always had some politics woven into it. i just feel like when it comes to Trump jokes that horse has been beat so much it's pulled a Nikki Sixx and died twice. it's just not that funny anymore.
Yes, it really is the laziest, most overplayed form of humour right now. But the thing is, in the episode, I didn’t get the sense that it was even written as an attempt at humour. It was just an incredibly weird creative decision to crowbar that in and think it added anything to the narrative. I wish I could say that this was one of the only times this series where I’ve looked at the writing and wondered, *why in the world would you do that?,* but...
@2manynegativewaves i didn't vote him in. i was 14 when the election happened and i'm almost 17 now. if i had been old enough i wouldn't have. you act as though i wanted him in office. and again i never said i didnt think he was a joke, i just said that the jokes are getting repetitive. i hate him just as much as you do.
Spiders scare me. I like things that scare me. Therefore, I liked the episode. When Whitaker met Yas's family It felt Matt Smithy to me. It was the way she bantered.
My primary issue with this episode is that it doesn't feel very Doctor Who, I'd say this is one of the most um, 'normal' episodes I've ever seen in Doctor Who. As far as the series goes currently, I find a handful of them just aren't finished as in there's the build up, but once it's all resolved it just... ends. Part of this is likely because of the removal of multi-parters.
Feels like a forgettable episode, such as The Idiot's Lantern, Boom Town, Father's Day, etc, not universally hated but not well liked (unless you hate spiders) also I wish it was linked to the spider episode of the 3rd Doctor era through a way not confusing to fans who haven't seen said episode but old fans will notice it
Remind me, is this the first time the Doctor listed why people 'shouldn't' want to travel with him? I can't recall any of the others standing there listing the reasons, saying how dangerous it is, how they can't guarantee their safety, etc, etc and then all the prospective companions just shrugging and saying yeah we're good, lol :)
Is it bad I agreed with the “trump” character, the Spider situation isn’t entirely his fault from what he said he runs one of the worlds biggest companies he can’t possibly keep up with everything going on within it, the show portrayed him as a villain the lab was also to blame and why didn’t they shoot them instead of letting them die a slow painful death
I feel like you have been pupuing too much based on past experiences with the show. Like disliking historical episodes, and disliking the domestic side of the companions because they have detracted in the past. Both of those things have been done well in the past and could do so again esp. with the new direction.
Not only that; it also had elements which proved to be important later in the season when Simm's Master turns up in Harold Saxon mode. Nothing about this episode suggested similar foreshadowing.
As someone who's been watching Doctor Who since the 1980s, seeing a Trump analogue in this episode didn't bother me. Who has always parodied political figures, such as Margaret Thatcher in The Happiness Patrol. The best part of this episode was the interactions between the cast. The Doctor was more in charge this time, which was as it should be. I liked Jade; I think she was being set up as a potential companion. To me, the funniest part of the episode, which absolutely no one is talking about, was when Ryan was making shadow puppets in the background while the Doctor and Jade discussed the spiders. I didn't really care for the obvious foreshadowing of a relationship between Ryan and Yaz: can't people just be friends anymore and not automatically become a couple??
Watching/Listening to a number of reviews of this episode, I am finding the reviewers from the USA are disliking the Robertson character more than the British reviewers. The spiders weren't just mutated by the toxic waste, it was also established that were was genetic experiments being performed on spiders by Jade, with the university using the disposal company owned by Robertson, to remove what they thought were dead experiments, so it was a combination of things. A lot of reviewers seem to be commenting on the "monster/villain of the week" thing. I'd just like to point out that with 10 stand-alone episodes, and with no recurring villains or monsters (as far as we're aware), its pretty obvious that every episode is going to have a villain or monster of the week. We may or may not get Tim Shaw's race back, but who knows? In my personal opinion, this episode had great concepts, but possibly had a bit too much to deal with and didn't seem to have time to fit them all into a 50 minute episode. An issue this whole series has had so far, certainly in The Ghost Monument and even in Rosa to an extent. I'm thinking it might be a problem of having too many companions in single episode stories. Three companions worked in the 1960s because a story would generally go over four to six episodes (with some two or three parters) in a series with 40-odd episodes, where each character had time to do something, or for logistical purposes an actor needed to be ready on another set for the next scene, because there was no video editing in 1963-65. Three companions also worked somewhat in 1982, although the production logistics didn't require that many characters as much, but each story still went over four episodes (approx. 100 minutes). Which is a shame because I really enjoy Graham, Ryan and Yaz.
I'd thought it was only me that noticed the very dramatic "I can sort this out" arc of her arm brandishing of the sonic. Nitpicking, the central column on the console seems to obscure everything else being so solid, was it good or bad to have the return of the psychic paper, my decision is still out on that but favouring its return at the moment (going to be a hung jury with me, even the sonic can't undo a deadlock seal we know). "The Green Death", for all its bad CSO and dodgy fly, was a far better allegorical story, as were a few of Pertwee stories. I thought the added 5 minutes on this years stories were meant to be better and really I can't say it has had much, if any, effect as yet, they might have as well maintained the original amount of stories if this is all we get.
You echoed everything I thought about Robertson. It felt so “in your face” and it was distracting. I felt near lethal levels of cringe when he said “fire and fury”.
I always enjoyed The Lazarus Experiment except for the awful CGI The CGI in this latest episode was good but the story was not. I'll take bad CGI and good story over good CGI and bad story.
From the first 4 episode i have come up with the opinion that the previous writers really made doctor who a good series. I dont have confidence in the current writters at the moment.
Yeah, I'd agree with the Lazarus Experiment comparison. And it's certainly a bad sign if you're getting such pedestrian episodes so early in a new showrunner's first series.
I also roll my eyes at the over-flourishing with the sonic. Though it's becoming gradually like a thing she just does, to me. She maybe just reaaaally likes to "wield" it? This episode was weird. I didn't care about the spiders, the explanation was overly convoluted, there was like a scene missing at the end to wrap up "well they're all dying in the kitchen now, oh isn't it sad about the mom spider"... I thought for a minute she might try to transport them all to some oxygen rich planet with... I don't know, I guess that wouldn't work cause they'd be killing some other defenseless animal to live. And the Trump guy was annoying. BUT I loved all the Team Tardis character stuff a lot. I loved Ryan's distaste for his dad's letter, Graham's grief, Yaz's obnoxious yet loving family, the Doctor's oblivious cheerful bluntness. It reminds me of the episodes in Eleven's run that I found stupid but enjoyed watching Matt Smith being the Doctor, except here with all the core team. At some point they're gonna nail both of those things at the same time. Please. I hope.
Graham's reaction to his Lose sounds like some empathetic writing. I've also been dealing with Grief and it's the moments that you stop being busy, that you become vulnerable to despair. His brush with Cancer probably has shaken him up as well. Graham seems very relatable to me.
Despite having a couple of scary scenes, the episode was absolutely terrible, and was one of the most lazily written episodes in the show's history. It couldn't decide whether it wanted to be an all-out horror, a black comedy, a farce or sincere poignant message, and instead attempts to be all four in the space of 50 minutes. Needless to say it doesn't work. The acting was also universally poor, the episode was painfully unfunny and the opening 20 minutes was like an episode of Emmerdale. It had no focus at all.
6:24 It's not nitpicky, and I'm glad people are finally starting to notice. Ever since ep. 2 every time I see the doctor use the sonic, it just looks unnecessarily unnatural. What happened to the slick way 10 and 11 used to use that?
my problem with this story is what happenend to the spiders? did she really just leave them all cramped in that panick room to die? how could she be so sure they all went in
my comment added before i finished. wouldn't they mate in there? just fee like there's so many unanswered questions. doesn't seem very doctory to leave an entire new species to die slowly and alone in a box
I can't believe I didn't realize until today that the bath scene with the giant spider was basically "the spider went up the water spout"! A drain in this case, but ...yep.
Tbh i was enjoying it but to me it had a two part vibe. I thought the spiders were going to spread out to the rest of the UK but the episode just ended with a very simple solution(felt a bit disappointing). I really did like the chemistry the characters had though. I really liked Yaz's mum and I felt this episode was kind of funny. I was thinking the exact same thing when she used her screwdriver😂😂😂. I 100% agree. P.S Writing my review, I realised I want - a 2 parter episode - More sci fi elements. None of these episodes had a sci-fi vibe to me and im longing for that.
The 'rude through blunt honesty' may be a purposeful call to Jodie Whittaker being from Yorkshire, a part of the UK quite well known for 'saying it as it is'. Whittaker also retains her very typical Northern England/Yorkshire accent.
I actually liked Capaldi early on, but didn't like the stuff they gave him to do later. Whittaker is definitely a slow-burner. She has traits recycled from previous Doctors and needs some time to figure out her doctor.
@@TheCrippledEgg She keeps having moments that remind me of David Tennant. Her speech about humanity in the first episode reminded me of the Lion King Scene. In this one it was the "Dude" line - so reminiscent of "Rude and not Ginger." I felt like a lot Capaldi scripts were written for Matt Smith and it wasn't until the second series that the writers figured him out. I get the same feeling here - just trying lots of things to figure out what is going to work.
I enjoyed this week's episode. I liked the compassion towards the spiders which are usually hated. I feel like if I was a kid, this episode would have made me like them lol. As with other people in the comments, I also thought the ending was really abrupt and it confused me how the situation was resolved.. I didn't mind the Trump character but maybe that's because I'm from england so I don't hear about him as often as Americans do. Usually I hate cheap jokes at Trump because it's so easy but I didn't mind this character. My only issue is that he never faced any sort of consequence (i.e. for locking Kevin in with the spider) but I get that the message was probably that these type of people never face consequences, are forever trapped in their ways sort of thing. And, I always enjoy the domestic side of the story in dw haha so I loved meeting Yas' family! Fun episode and Jodie is always a joy to me!
Weakest episode yet. Is Chibnall ever going to allow another writer a go? (Even Rosa was co-written by him). I agree it could've been a fun episode, but that one character constantly reminded me of why I like to lose myself in fantasy sometimes. And yes, I immediately thought of Lazarus Experiment. On the plus side, the CGI spiders were well executed, Graham was terrific as well, and Jodie's Doctor was delightful. But I kept wishing that her Doctor would do a Capaldi and just strike fake-Trump across the face. Overall, a throwaway episode for me.
What'd up expect? Natural evolution of huge spiders? The large spiders in the episode give birth to the regular ones? Robertson is an alien smuggling spiders to invade earth?
By far, my favorite scene in the whole episode was when the doctor and the spider scientist were talking and you could see Ryan making shadow puppets in the background
I didn't like this episode and the one before it because they tried to be OVERTLY political rather than be allegorical and subtle about it. The businessman character in this episode was cartoonish, 1 dimensional and was a cheap Trump knock-off, furthermore there's even a cringeworthy scene where the characters take a jab at Trump and at this point I'm going how is this even relevant to the sci-fi story about giant spiders? I don't mind political messages but please keep real-life people out of it, if you were to look back on these episodes a decade from now they will feel dated BECAUSE of referencing real life pop culture figures.
The Musical Build Team not sure I follow you, nothing was meant to happen to them after that, they simply went in there and died. The victims were already dead when they found them.
OMG I'm so happy that I'm not the only one who doesn't like the way the Doctor wields the screwdriver, it's so over the top and really really annoys me 😂
Once again, I find myself pretty much 100% in agreement. A "low-density" episode with nice characterisation for Graham, but yeah, Trump-lite was a bit hamfisted, and unnecessary. I thought this story was a sorely missed opportunity to reference Planet Of The Spiders - I was waiting for a web to spell out "All praise to The Great One" - but instead, and some folks have already pointed it out, it harked back to The Green Death, which could also have been mentioned... Not dreadful, but just... packing peanuts for better stories? At least Yaz got a bit more to do!
Funnily, so far this has been the best episode of the season. To me, it had the best pacing of all the episodes. The performances were strong, the spiders creeped me out...I hope I didn't develop arachnophobia from watching this. It is certainly the best script by Chibnall thus far. Jodie was on fire, and finally some character development for Yas.. I still wish it was Clyde and Rani instead of Ryan and Yas. Ah well, this is the first sign that the show might be getting better finally. I wish there had been more references to Planet of the Spiders...such as an all hail the great one comment form the Doctor just in passing when dealing with the giant mother spider. Ah well, at least there has been progress.
Were you including Chibnall's pre-Season-11 scripts in that? Personally I thought The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood was pretty good, and quite enjoyed Dinosaurs on a Spaceship...
@@irrevenant3 Yes, I was including pre-Season-11 scripts. Chris does character development well, but typically has underwhelmed me on everything else that he has touched. I was very worried when he was announced as the show runner because of how forgettable his prior scripts had been. I also have been a bit against him ever since watching a Dr Who Appreciation society interview with him in it on one of the classic DVDs. He had a very different opinion of whatever story it was than did I, and shows that his take doesn't align with mine, generally. I have never been a big fan of the Silurians, but do have a bit of a soft spot for Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. Those were pretty much the highlights of his previous scripts. The first three shows this year were very slow paced, and I was not enjoying the show. My lack of enjoyment had nothing to do with the cast or the technical crew. Pacing is on the writer and director. I did enjoy Chris Noth in this role and personally think the story wouldn't have worked without his character or someone similar. I want to clarify that a BETTER story would have worked without him, but THIS story needed him.
During the latter half I was thinking "they've set up quite a lot here. I feel like this is going to be a two-parter" but I wasn't even enjoying it too much so as much as this concept may have benefited from a more fleshed out story that another episode could have provided, I'm glad there wasn't because I would've been pretty bored. Side note though: Who allowed the body guard to carry a gun in Sheffield? The police aren't even allowed guns. Does the hotel guy have to tell his niece that her wife is dead now? Are those spiders just in that panic room forever now? What happens when people go to the hotel to stay? Because it's definitely going to be a functioning hotel in the future. Does Ryan need a new phone now? Surely he had to leave his phone in the panic room to lure the spiders in. What did they do with the people who were killed by the spiders? Did they carry them out of the mines? Do they get funerals? Isn't it going to reflect badly on the hotel guy and his presidential campaign when he gets corpses wheeled out of his hotels? What happens to the woman covered in webbing in her flat? Did anyone report it to the police? Bit of a rant here: I would say that what it lacked in story it could have made up for in character development for the Doctor and company but it didn't really do a whole lot in terms of that. I like the dynamic between the Doctor and the companions as the season progresses; it's more like a team of friends than any other Doctor/companion dynamic I've seen before (except maybe 10 and Donna). I will say though, I feel like this episode established Whittaker's Doctor as someone who is deeply lonely during the beginning. She jumps at the opportunity to go to Yaz's for tea and that moment was both fun and quite sad. It was touched on a bit in the first episode of the season as well. I think this season could do with delving a bit more into that side of the Doctor. She parted with Nardole, Bill, Missy, Clara, as well as River from what we saw of Capaldi's regeneration when the ring slipped off her finger. It was incredibly symbolic of leaving River behind. Now I'm not saying Whittaker needs to characterise her Doctor as someone steeped in sadness and grief because I love her quirky upbeat take on the role. But certainly there should be elements of that because she is still inhabiting the life wherein those people have left and they are gone and she has lived an uncountable amount of years. Like Capaldi's Doctor said in The Doctor Falls: "I can't keep on being somebody else". Surely that's something Whittaker's Doctor would remember. In concept, looking at the Doctor as, in River Song's words, "an ageless god" might sound rather impressive but it definitely carries with it a note of sadness. Maybe it's something Chibnall will expand upon and I hope he does. Overall I'm not loving this season so far and I don't really know what to think of the next episode from the teaser, but it doesn't look incredible.
First, I enjoy your reviews (for the record, last week's "second take" on "Rosa" was both thought-provoking and gut-wrenching to watch), and I have never commented here. I am bummed that, after four episodes of this series, I'm done as a regular viewer. I have watched on-and off since I was a child. I thought Peter Capaldi's take (which included character growth) was near-perfection in terms of what I expected and needed from The Doctor, and I hated to see him leave. But now I feel like saying to Dr. Who, "I'm very sorry about what's happened to you. Since I generally oppose violence (well, except for Cybermen and Daleks) and cannot afford to put a bullet in my TV, I will simply lock it in a room and allow the show to starve on the emptiness of its own high-minded self-important PC-edness." This episode pretty much burned my eyes (apart from Jodi's utterly awful costume, the way she wields her sonic, the not-subtle-at-all anti-Trump, the inhumane non-solution for the poor spiders) . . . for all that Graham tugs on my heart-strings and the spiders were just fricking cool. Oh, and they killed Kevin. How lame.
I think Graham was the best part of this episode. I love psychoanalysis of characters and how it progresses a story, I find it fascinating. To see Graham unable to escape his grief in Sheffield, he finds an outlet to look forward in with the Doctor, his grandson, and Yaz. I really can't wait to see more of these perspectives on the characters and how they cope with the world changing around them, as that in part is what inspires me to write.
I'm glad you brought up Noth's character, because he ruined the episode for me. I feel like these characters are put in place specifically to spark political conversations. The fact that you even had to bring him up, is proof that is having the same affect, that it had on me. I don't think Chibnall even knows what an allegory is. If this show is going to be designed around provoking a political debate every Sunday, this long term fan will be leaving this universe. I don't need all of my entertainment to be mirror politics all of the time. I'm already at strike 2, and I'm out. It's a shame, because I really like doctor, and this cast of companions. I wanted Doctor Who to be whimsical and fun again, but as you said, you can do politics in science fiction, and not be so direct. Star Trek did it brilliantly for years. These last two episodes made me extremely uncomfortable. I'm terrified of spiders, but Noth's character ruined any of the tension. Also...this Doctor hasn't really done anything all that heroic yet, and these companions are all ready to blindly follow her into the sun which seems kind of odd. Seems like a combination of lazy writing, and poor character development. Just my minor gripe. Thanks for another great review!
Who else felt that the most humane way of getting rid of the huge spider was to kill it considering it was suffocating
Wasn't that the plot twist? That Not-Trump was arguably right, and the Doctor probably wrong?
I think they tried to inject a moral angle into the situation without properly thinking it through and they wrote themselves into a corner. It's like um whatever that episode about killing the Moon was called, but that was worse cause it was actually suppose to be about the moral issue.
Actually Doctor Who has this very odd idea of morality. The Beast Below sets up the vote on making the space wale the base of the ship but it frames it as something so horrible that you'd rather forget about it. Ignoring the context that not doing it would have meant every human died and arguably it isn't even moral wrong. It just means human have to become parasites to survive.
NO TOUCHING GUNS. Death by suffocation is cool though.
Don't expect anything a leftist writes to actually make sense.
@@thhunter This is s character trait of the Doctor for decades. And it has been deconstructed by "leftist" writers for nearly as long.
I guess the issue of the right is that they rarely can even grasp the concept of self criticism or have to cut short of any self reflection whose outcome could be different than self praise.
Also compare to Davros roasting the 10th Doctor for not using actual weapons, but instead turning his companions into weapons - sometimes even into suicide attackers.
@@moloids You clearly haven't watched any classic who. Outside of Chibnall stories, it's barely a thing in nuWho either.
ruclips.net/video/lzmnPs64K74/видео.html
What do you think about the Doctor's solution of trapping the spiders in a room and waiting until they die of suffocation or starvation? It seems like shooting them would be much more humane in this situation. Also what about the spiders that weren't in the hotel that were never dealt with. Also the toxic waste is still there so couldn't another mutation happen again? The ending left so much unresolved and unquestioned and I don't like that.
I only know that starvation is a very peaceful death, at least for humans. You just silently waste away.
I felt it was a bit unresolved. You still have the source of the mutation. There was loads of spiders, possibly more in the city. It was like they went with the, kill the main vampire or werewolf and it stops the course on all the victims. Kill the mommy and they all fall. When it came back from commercial I thought I’d missed something.
@@eddiezanryder It's made clear that the only mutant spider that left the hotel went to Yaz's neighbor because she works at the research lab and came into contact with the mutant spider's pheromones. All the other weird spider activity around the city were from normal spiders reacting to the presence of the mutant spiders.
What about the discarded giant spider carcass in Graeme's loft?
That's what spiders die of normally. And there was food, that's why the spiders went there
While the fake-Trump was annoying and distracting, I found more issue with the ending. I understand the anti-weapons message, but how is it less cruel to lock the spiders in a small room and wait for them to slowly die? (I think that was the plan...)
The Doctor seemed to be more comfortable watching the huge one die slowly of suffocation rather than put it out of its misery. I think it would’ve been more impactful if she’d had a moment of “I’m so so sorry” and had to put the poor creature down, rather than fake-trump running in and shooting it.
The thing I'm going with regarding the Doctor's actions is that it was the better of two evils. They've done this before in Who. They couldn't let the spiders go or live so they had to die. This way no-one directly killed any of the spiders, aside from the businessman and it was as natural as possible under the circumstances. Was it a nice way to go? No. Would it have been better to shoot them? Maybe.
That's the only way I can see with the Doctor's thinking.
Out of being shot and suffocating, the latter is the better (well, less-bad) death.
lwaves yeah I think you’ve got a point, I’m just not sure they really made a big enough issue of it? There was no discussion of the best outcome and it feels a little forced towards “well at least the Doctor and companions have no blood on their hands”
I just feel like it comes across a little hypocritical, and I didn’t like that they basically just glossed over it
Like under the circumstances, I feel mercy killing them would’ve been more logical and affective to the audience than just letting them waste away
Shooting the spiders would be worse than letting them do what spiders do. Which is eating food and hanging out till they die
The Toxic waste = giant spiders bit is probably a head nod to the Pertwee classic story 'The Green Death' where a company is pumping toxic waste down a closed coal mine. I was a bit frustrated (in a way) that they didn't reference that story or 'Planet of the Spiders' where giant spiders actually killed the Doctor... You think she might remember that.
They did... The doctor says she did this before directly in the episode
As TheLoneKnight says, the Doctor does remember it and she referenced it. Makes me wonder if it was the same company doing the same thing. Different name maybe but possibly the same company.
Where was that please? I'd been hoping for a reference but failed to catch one, I must of missed it... :(
@@hotdog1214 It was in the lab scene, where she talks about how, if a strand of spider silk were as thick as a pencil, it would be strong enough to stop a plane. Graham said: I'd like to see that, and she said: "I did, once."
@@lwaves that company blows up at the end of the Green Death
100% agree with your review. That character was beyond a distraction and this episode is going to age so badly that they might as well have had fidget spinners as the monsters.
Big evil corporate guy have been villains long before Trump. Even in Dr who, look at voyage of the damned. Yeah the references might be outdated at some point but it's gonna be a while till people forget who Trump or Ed Sheeran is
He wasn't great. I'm not arguing that but I think it's not gonna age particularly badly
Hell, this entire series is going to age badly. Too much trying to be hip with all the contemporary references in every episode.
LOL! Fidget spinner monsters :O)
@Sebastian G I'm very on board with evil corporate villains. Van Statten in Dalek is a prime example of how a character like that should be done. It's different in this case however as Nathaniel said it's about style and context. Van Statten and the head from Voyage of the Damned wouldn't run for office because they would already own it. The episode will age badly because if it feels like a political cheap shot now its impact is only going to diminish over time. In the light of other issues such as the ones Nathaniel raised last week I feel like if that man is going to be brought up he should be tackled head on with something a lot more heavyweight. At the moment there are trolls strawmanning this point to have a go at the entire series which is annoying because it appears to be building up really well with a more character driven focus.
I am LOVING Whittaker but this episode just kind of...stopped at a certain point. Did anyone else get the feeling that this was planned to be a two-parter like in a normal series? But it was waved by so many good lines:
"Nadia, you've made an awesome human."
"Very plural."
"You can't be president if you fired Yaz's mum."
With Whittaker, the show is just so fun to watch!
Yes, it's odd that the Doctor suddenly seemed to lose interest in the situation, and decided to go with things unfinished. Sheffield still had a spider problem and a hotel sitting on a pile of toxic waste; the hotel owner was free to continue his career as before.
Haha, yeah, loving her as the Doctor. Still sad about capaldi...
Haha, yeah, loving her as the Doctor. Still sad about capaldi...
I agree.More good lines:"SAYS US!" "Who,Ed Sheeran?" "Everyones talking about Ed Sheeran about now,arent they?"
@@jonathan.palfrey wow,I didnt actually think about that...
Only bit I disliked was the fact that they felt the need to mention Trump for NO REASON. They did this last episode with Obama too, they keep bringing up real world US politics despite Britain being heavily fictionalized usually.
Minorities aren't just treated unfairly in the US, y'know. The Obama reference was to note progress of society as a whole.
It didn’t make any explicit anti-Trump statements though? Just said that this fictional rival of him doesn’t like him. That’s not at all partisan, the character yeah but it’s an old archetype anyway so.
except that obama had a reason to be mentioned.
Yup, that niggled me too. The character would have worked just as well, if not better, as an unscrupulous businessman without name-dropping Trump. Classic Who often used to make political points, but they did so in an allegorical way, without making overt references to living people.
They seem to be pandering to a US market.
I think the quality is hugely improved when you're sitting next to someone whose afraid of spiders. Not only are they thoroughly terrified, but you're thoroughly entertained. And besides, I'd sit through any episode just to see that amazing time vortex.
Like you I loved the way the TARDIS was hurtling through the time vortex, only to emerge at a point where we saw hundreds/thousands/millions of other vortexes to go down. Apart from the opening titles it's finally a visualisation of what I always imagined in my head.
Holy shit yes, about the time vortex. That was a thing of beauty.
@@fizzplease6742 I forgot to mention the slow melody that accompanied it, so atmospheric.
@@colp4689 Agreed. That was so cool!
LOVED the time vortex. Whatever one thinks about individual episodes or elements of episodes, the visuals this season are freaking SPECTACULAR!
Whittaker is still probably the least defined Doctor for this many episodes.
By this point Eccleston had been revealed to be the last of the Time Lords and was dealing with that.
Tennant had his "no second chances" moment
Smith had a montage of his goofiness.
Capaldi had set up his entire arc with "am I a good man?".
Sure, Whittaker had the screwdriver scene and that was cool but there's no character tied to that just yet. She's a great actress, she just needs something to work with.
There was the moment in The Ghost Monument where the rags told her she was "afraid of herself and her ability to lead" and I think we are seeing some of that, she always seems to hold back on outwardly leading like she's scared of it
To be fair, all of those past "defining moments" were a bit crap.
@@alfiethomas5632 You know, I hope this is a deliberate arc, because I've been wanting Thirteen to have those moments of taking charge. We had that in the first episode, but since then there have been some strange moments for The Doctor, like that moment of panic in The Ghost Monument when she thought they were stuck on Desolation, or when she absolutely failed to call out Robertson for shooting the spider where past Doctors would have thoroughly ruined him somehow. She even hesitates asking her new companions to stay with her. So I'm really hoping this is a planned arc that she will grow out of, because I otherwise really like this Doctor.
@@Stray7 You might even say she's a bit cowardly, which means it will have to be some kind of progression arc or she wouldn't keeping to the promise of her name
I thought they were going to do something with the Timeless child like they mentioned in episode 2 but they haven't mentioned it and so I can't see a story arc or anything building. I mean they might have an underlying one you never realised was a story arc until the end like in series 4 when the planets were going missing
I think 1 failure of the episode was that I actually agreed with the bad guy's plan throughout the episode
Same here. Just kill the OBVIOUS direct threat and be over with it. Atleast 3 deaths due to the spiders.
=Yes killing them would be 100% justified and the right thing to do.
Donna's family was amazing though 😂
"IT'S THEM ALIEEEEEEENS!!!!"
Jessica Emmas they were ! Absolutely miss Her Grand Father he is an adorable Grandpa.
On the topic of the use of the Sonic Screwdriver, Jodie's exaggerated gestures when using it made me realise how much I miss the way the Classic Doctors wielded their screwdrivers. They way they hold them almost like tuning forks is pretty charming, and in my opinion far more receptive than the Modern Doctors pointing their screwdrivers at things like they're magic wands... which they've sorta become.
Agreed. I blame the Harry Potter movies.
Bad Guys So Far:
Episode 1 - Actually kills someone, but has to cheat in order to hunt down and kill a harmless human. Overall generic badguy threat level.
Episode 2 - Rich Guy setting up a death race on a planet where Sniper Robots struggle to hit a fat guy and floating dish clothes whisper sweet nothings in your ear.
Episode 3 - Space Nazi who can't kill anyone and changes bus schedules!!!! NOOOO!!!
Episode 4 - Spiders that suffocate themselves and are easily tricked into walking into a box.
Anyone else starting to feel a little....underwhelmed?
For sure, the villains of these 4 episodes have all been either one dimensional, nonsensical (in regard to their motives/backstory), non threatening or used for some form of moral posturing, or a combination of at least 3 of these. I'm just hoping that one future villain only has ONE of those flaws (which is an incredibly low bar to set), but my expectations are just *that* low atm.
I feel like any episode of DW could be summed up to sound that way. Most of them have elements of absurdity, convenient coincidence, or aborted threats.
@@serrasedai yeah i agree, you could even take some amazing episodes of Doctor Who and make them sound underwhelming.
Heaven Sent - The Doctor gets trapped in a castle and has to punch his way through a wall
Midnight - a train breaks down, people get paranoid and blame the doctor
Empty Child - A bomb falls on a kid and turns him into a zombie but it's actually a space ambulance that heals him
Vincent and The Doctor - The Doctor, Amy and an artist have to kill an invisible alien
You can sum up any DW story and make it sound underwhelming. I agree that 1,2, 4 of the new season have all been naff but Rosa was more than a space nazi trying to change bus schedules.
I agree, this season is not good so far
Dan B Rosa was a good historical episode in the way that it is a history lesson. The villain was underwhelming though and for me I don’t watch Dr who to see history (I’d watch a documentary) like I like when history is intermixed in the plot but not when it literally is just a history lesson if that makes any sense lol. To each is own though.
needed to be a two parter. i know Chibnall seems to be against those. but if you look back. they are the better episodes. of mordern who. it gives you more time with the characters.
Not always better. Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks wasn’t helped by the extra time.
Koba I don’t see why. I think this episode used its time wisely, and I don’t see what it could’ve done with a whole other 45 minutes that wouldn’t just be padding.
+Koba Whilst a double episode does give you more time with the characters and plot, I don't think this episode warranted more time. There was enough to fill what they had and any more time would have been stretching it too much in my opinion.
Also, Chibbers isn't against two-parters, he just isn't doing any this season.
A two-partner? Of big spiders in Sheffield? Oh, please, no! One part is enough. Possibly more than enough.
strongly disagree. 2 parters are almost always terrible. aliens of london + world war 3, daleks in manhattan + evolution of the daleks, time of angels + flesh and stone, the rebel flesh + the almost people, the zygon invasion + the zygon inversion... and then there's 2 parters that start well, and then the 2nd episode is utter garbage like heaven sent + hell bent, and world enough and time + the doctor falls. 2-part episodes are almost always a problem in some way or another. and the less said about 'the pyramid at the end of the world' + 'the lie of the land' the better.
I found this episode so damn anti-climatic. This new season has been extremely underwhelming, and I am going to chalk that up to the weak writing.
BlasterMaster I haven’t watched this episode, but chibnall’s writing does seem to have a lot of “what was the point” to it. I love the tone, but yes, there does seem to be more emphasis on the exterior, than on the actual plot.
I was kinda hoping the doctor would have whispered to Robertson’s secretary “don’t you think he looks tried?” Or something just to give him some kind of punishment
I feel the same way about how she uses the Sonic. It doesn't feel like a tool when she does that.
Yeah, I'm feeling the same way about it now. It's okay to make a point when facing down a big bad but not everytime and especially not when it's a door!
Looking back, Matt flourished the sonic a lot as well, but he made it look *good*. Key differences being that his movements are much more swift, and he didn't do the same flourish every time.
@@eirei0789 and he didn't do it all the time. Sometimes he'd use it like any other old tool. A good example would be when River asked him to do some frequency thing with the sonic, I think it was the start of episode 3 or 4 of season 6.
I think its ok every once in a while; Ten and Eleven sometimes brandished it like they were going to 'assemble a cabinet' at their enemies but doing it every time just makes it really noticeable and makes me laugh out loud (which I'm sure is not the desired reaction). Its not even the pointing per se but rather the big circular arm movement. I began noticing she did it maybe 4 or 5 times in Ghost Monument but didn't see it in Rosa so thought she might have broken the habit, but alas no.
I’ve come to the conclusion that the power cell she nabbed from the Stenza pod was not a power source but in fact some gizmo that stores kinetic energy so she has to wind it up before she can use it. :O)
It feels a little 'Sailor Moon' transition when she does the swoopy thing now that you mention it
Loving Jodi but Chris Chibnal has yet to win me over. At first it was the fact that he had two episodes where he didn't kill anyone making the Threat much less obvious. But now I realise there is a far weirder Chibnal trope that slightly reduces the great episodes otherwise. He's building fantastic threats and great concepts but then just takes 5 minutes to beat the big bad of the week. Perfect example is the Spiders being scary af but beating them with music and a gun. Nah
Linda Balck yeah he doesn’t know how to wrap up his episodes. His style also just doesn’t fit the show and it can be seen in his older episodes before he took over. They really should have gotten someone else 🤷♀️
He killed so many people in the first episode
I'm really sad because I love Jodie's Doctor, she's taken to the role so well. But this series feels a bit flat and Its a shame that the whole 'female doctor' thing will get the blame when it isnt her letting the series down at all :( really hope the second half of the season pulls through.
I know you didn’t quite mean it this way, but when you described it as feeling flat, it gave me the image of what I’ve been missing so far: effervescence. The writing has frequently been so plodding.
I really prefer Who when it takes narrative risks; with all of time and space in the writers’ hands, it seems like a waste to knock out old standards. (I feel like this was Chib’s cover version of Green Death with spiders rather than maggots, and Trump rather than environmentalism.) Sometimes the risks don’t quite work, and you get an In the Garden or Kinda, but the risks are really what keep it fresh.
It may be cynical, but I get the impression that the creators thought that casting a woman would be more of a risk than it was, and it’s made them more complacent in their other creative decisions? Hopefully I’m wrong.
I kinda feel the same way, so far it's been passable and entertaining enough to get me excited for the next episode, and they haven't done anything bad enough for that to happen yet... but i've felt that way about Doctor Who for a while, actually I felt exactly the same way about Capaldi's run too, I really loved him as the Doctor, i thought he was perfect for it ! but the writing and the side characters and everything was so un inspired I felt that he and we'd been robbed of a great Doctor Who series because of that ..
The whole series so far has been meh for me. Chibnall is such a boring writer. I really don't see Chibnall taking any sort of risks with the show. Changing the gender and being more diverse is just surface change. I want different, bold, thought provoking sci-fi. Your likely to balls up sometimes doing that but at least it's different.
I think Whittaker has been miscast and needs to tone it down a bit, I just don't buy it when she has to be authoritative. I'm really hoping her Doctor evolves and we get to see more shades to her besides over enthusiastic. Emma Thompson or Tilda Swinton would of been much better choices.
Here here
I doubt that every moviestar actress is ready to be the doctor. And whitaker is great, and accusumed for longer running tv series.
@@jonsnor4313 Probably. Just my preference. If your enjoying her performance then great.
@@shaun9631 She says all her lines in a comedic, kids show style and has yet to be dark or authoritative in 4 episodes. Each doctor has been dark on their first episodes. I think her never having seen an episode of doctor who and Chris being adamant doctor who will be for the kids now is affecting Jodie's non doctor performance. Also, the acting from the Hollyoaks double has been bland and bad.
@@shaun9631 And don't get me started on the new music ffs
Anyone noticed how similar the first four episodes of this series to the first four episodes of Series 10?
The Pilot and The Woman Who Fell to Earth - The Doctor got new companions, battle something pretty unexplainable at first, the last few minutes lead into the second episode.
Smile and The Ghost Monument - Set somewhere seems desolate, had robots, futuristic looking, last few minutes also lead into the next episode.
Thin Ice and Rosa - Set in a historical era where racism is still a thing.
Knock Knock and Arachnids in the UK - Back on Earth, battles something based on earthly creatures.
Kinda makes sense.
First episode of the series being set on Earth to introduce the new character(s) to the audience, having familiar surroundings so instead of explaining an alien world more time is spent on introducing character(s).
Second episode going into the future/outer space, to get new audiences introduced into the sci-fi-universe.
Third episode then being set in a historical era to illustrate the use of the TARDIS for time travel. (also, about the racism: There is barely any historical era on earth without at least some racism, so any episode including non-white main characters will probably have some small moments relating to that - with Rosa it was admittedly the base of the episode, but considering who the episode was about, it was to be expected. With Bill in thin ice there was only one moment of it, and similar moments happened way back with Martha)
Fourth episode back on earth to tie the show back to "our" reality, in order to show that even tho theres a lot of fun to be had with time travel / outer space, theres still adventures to be had on earth beyond the first episode.
Its a pretty good way to start off with new audience, and was done before back with Eccleston - the first four episodes were Rose (new companions, fighting something on earth); End of the World (space station in the far future); The Unquiet Dead (back in historical period); and Aliens in London (Back on Earth).
@@hologilion2868 That's something wierd about Eccleston's run actually now that I think about it: He never left Earth's orbit.
Only the season 10 episodes were much better, in my opinion.
@@FixTheWi-Fi Series 1 lacked the budget.
I agree with the Trump not Trump character. He was pointless. I despise Trump and everything he stands for, but having a parody of him in this episode for no reason just annoys me. I also have a problem with the way Yaz is being written, she's got next to no substance to her character. Her family felt more like real and interesting characters than her, I just feel Chibnell doesn't know what to do with her and if that's the case, why is she there in the first place?
I also agree with the spider/horror thing. It's lazy. Weeping Angels, Gas mask child, Vashta Narada are all great examples of how to do a good horror villain in Who, throwing spiders in there is just a way to lazily scare people like me with arachnophobia.
Also can we talk about how the Doctor dealt with these spiders? As a typical Brit, I'm very anti-gun, that said, it would be better for the massive spider to be shot than to have it slowly suffocate. Furthermore, wtf actually happened to the other spiders? Did I miss something or were they also just left to starve/suffocate in the panic room? THe Doctor's moral compass was way *way* off in this episode and at least in some episodes there's a reason for it (no matter how good or bad the reason ;) ) whereas here she's just happy to let them all suffer, without saving them or giving them a mercy killing (again, unless I missed something?).
The best part of this episode, and I think this series so far, for me at least, is Graham. I wasn't expecting to like him at all but the performance and writing are really great where he's concerned. Even better than, I'd say, The Doctor's writing and performance (any time Whittaker has to portray a saddened Doctor it comes across very awkward and almost cartoonish and I don't know why, considering I've seen her do said emotion in other roles perfectly). He's a very complex character who's fun and interesting to watch who has a lot of depth to him.
Anyway, only recently found your channel but I love the content, your opinions (even if I disagree with some here and there ;) ) and will stay tuned for future reviews, so thanks for the content! :D
Funny thing is that Yaz' sister makes fun of her having no friends and no interests except her job. So the writers are not doing that by accident, one assumes.
Yaz not being able to answer Rosa's question of where she wants to be with anything except "in charge" also resonates with that. (I know plenty of people like that in real life, actually more women than men.) I hope we will get a nice character arc for her exactly working that issue of hers out.
moloids I understand that there are plenty of people like that, but they still have clear personalities without necessarily knowing where they are going. Yaz on the other hand isn’t being written like a 3 dimensional character, she feels very 2D.
Take me for example, I don’t really know what I want to do, I don’t know where I’m going other than ‘to uni’ and I don’t really have any friends, yet I still have a clear cut personality on paper and don’t act like the literal definition of exposition. I am hoping she gets some great arc as going into this series, I thought she’d be the one I liked the most (so perhaps I’m a bit biased with disappointment), but she currently doesn’t feel like a real person, especially when you compare her to Graham or Ryan.
Not being sure about what to do with their life and not having any real depth or substance are two different things when writing characters (though I couldn’t do better, that’s kinda why I’m not an author or screenwriter), the former poses for an interesting arc, the latter is just poor writing.
Still, tis only my opinion, I just really want a lot more from her than we’re currently getting. To some extent with Rosa, or definitely with this episode it was a perfect chance to flesh her character out, and it was done a little bit, but not enough! There is an upcoming episode (that I won’t name in case you don’t know) that will definitely be a great chance for her character to shine and I hope that it’s taken!
As a US viewer I thought (hoped maybe?) they cut the show down for more commercials. We lost about 10 minutes off of one of the Christmas Specials a few years back, and I know they routinely cut old episodes for marathons etc. I didn't think they did for new eps anymore though. So they didn't? None of that actually got resolved?
I'd like to think that what the Doctor actually did was offscreen and that she only lured them into the panic room temporarily. While they were in the room, she engineered a giant spider-safe box that she later used to transport the spiders to a planet that had enough food for the spiders to live and/or supported other large spiders. Then the spiders lived out long, prosperous lives. The end. :)
@@thekernewekpenguin It took me until this episode to actually attribute those traits to Yaz. (While the "I want to be in charge!" thing in Rosa on its own pissed me more off in the sense that it was a cliché way of writing a sassy character.) So for me it's a definite step forwards, turning one dimensional "sassy ethnic girl" into two dimensional "career girl without depth (that is still used as point for viewer identification)". I could be wrong and Yaz just goes back being "sassy ethnic girl" and nothing else. That's why I wrote "hope" above. Still: for me Arachnids in the UK was the 1st step forward for Yaz. Somehow I have a bad feeling next will be a step back for her, but I want to be surprised.
My thoughts:
The spider sound effects horrified me!
Doctor: "I don't know whether I'm nervous or socially awkward."
I'm glade they didn't fall into the cliché of "It's this but no its not its an alien."
Seeing Graham dealing with the lost of grace is truly heart breaking, and so well done.
I originally though this would be a Yaz focused episode which for the most part it was although they did also delve into Graham and Ryan's relationship once again, which I always love to see! I thought we might get more of a reason why Yaz was important to the group what she sort of add because if I'm honest if I was told to get rid of one companion it would be Yaz.
There's a spider in the bath, a spider in the bath. Hehe it was an nursery rhyme my mum used to sing to me, that's all I could think during the bath scene.
The idea of the mother spider dying from being so big was extremely sad and kinda reminded me of the Matt smiths Doctors episode with Vincent van goth, at the end in the church, I'm not sure why.
I really liked the intro with the Tardis going through space all those purples and other colours, absolutely stunning! Really good.
I don't want to say anything about the trump references, especially with what's going on in America currently.
The Doctor seems to be shaping out to be a person oriented Doctor in that she asked the girl for permission to open the flat door, the way she tries to do small talk, she seems like she just wants to be a Freind of the universe, unless you use a gun or knife of course.
Stereotypical jerk character.
The "beast" in the van Gogh episode had no choice in it's actions, nor did the spider. The Beast was deaf so kicked out of it's clan and went mad, the spider was just doing what spiders do but had been interfered with, not by alien tech, but human greed.
Both outcomes are from a power struggle with no give, so the comparison is not that big of a stretch.
@@sutekh233 Mmmh yeah. It felt very similar, although I was thinking more about the emotional reactions to the spider how the Doctor interacted with it and how it was portrayed in that moment.
@@Greasyyyhair Ahh, in that case in both eps, it's sympathy (or perhaps empathy, the doc is an outcast), from either the beast, or the doctor. First, do no harm after all.
@@sutekh233 Mmmh yeah.
"Alien" is completely relative. Everything is alien to something.
The spiders were visually excellent.
Spiders terrify me, I have arachnophobia and I hate they’ve wasted an episode which could have make me hide behind the sofa with this incredible mess.
I don’t want from Doctor Who some banal and trivial lessons on the dangers of toxic waste, cheap psychological and sociological issues when a young girl tries to free herself from the bonds of a traditional family. I don’t want Doctor Who to become the rough copy of a historical docufiction .
I want from Doctor Who solid, brilliant, amazing science fiction stories with a pinch of allegorical references to the present that add sarcasm and a higher level of meaning appealing for a grown-up audience Jodie Whitaker and Bradley Walsh are great but they can’t express their full potential in these painful scripts
Spot on
Quote: "I want from Doctor Who solid, brilliant, amazing science fiction stories with a pinch of allegorical references to the present that add sarcasm and a higher level of meaning appealing for a grown-up audience." OMG this. A million times this.
I agree with you, but I wouldn't hold my breath about getting any good SF stories from the current writing team. Maybe in a couple of years will get some good DW.
Definitely, from someone that gained arachnophobia directly from Planet of the Spiders, this episode could have been sooo much more. Mutant Giant Spiders...Psychic? No; spitting acid venom? nope; partially cyberized as part of failed weapons program? No; I'd go for them wearing garbage boxes as helmets and talking in shrill voices about the kingdom of the Eight-Legs and praising The Great One would have been better. Even some unexplained learning behavior would have had a chilling effect. What if in the neighbor's apartment after the Doctor put down the spider repellent foam, the spider tentatively puts it's leg over it on to the floor on the other side? Everyone sees that the spider has learned this is not a real threat and make a mad dash out of the apartment slamming the door behind them, with the Doctor using the sonic to make sure it stays locked, after the handle starts to jiggle. I get more dramatic feeling of our hero's being in mortal danger from a Disney cartoon than this episode of Doctor Who.
Can I suggest that you look up an early 70s episode of Dr Who called 'The Green Death'. This plot is NOTHING new, just very badly done!
I never call him Graham. He's just Bradley Walsh to me.
I'm terrified of spiders, but I actually enjoyed this episode. They were scary, but they weren't really evil. They weren't doing anything other than surviving in their own minds. I thought the Trump parody was hilarious and worked really well. He was a nice piece of comic relief while still being evil. He was self serving, bad tempered...basically, he was Trump with all the negative aspects turned way up. He was important to the story because he was this self serving, bad tempered, etc type guy. It needed to be someone like that and writers will often look to the real world for inspiration. I'm sure they did the same thing with Thatcher at one point, although it wasn't quite as blatant. Someone like Trump is perfect for that role. This was probably the weakest episode thus far and the ending felt a bit rushed. Trump clone killed the big spider, but what about the rest? Do they all just die when the food runs out? What about the ones that weren't in the hotel?
The only place I disagree with you is I don't see the negative aspects as particularly exaggerated.
The doctor being non violent felt a bit rich when right after she decides to force the baby spiders through a slow death and then she can't give the large spider a quick death. It just felt like mixed messaging.
I'm genuinely thinking the only reason for Robertson was to shoot the big spider at the end because they couldn't think of another way to end the episode.
Classic Chibnall, unfortunately.
From the perspective of a person living in the UK (not representative of everyone but of large portion) mocking trump is a bit of past time for us. It's enjoyable for a lot of people and lots of TV shows use Trump. Mocking any political figure (not mattering who it is) including satire of the royal family is very fun. The episode also highlights the fact that Trump is pro-gun while they are outlawed in the UK. Very much a UK target audience for this episode.
2003johnson2 fair enough. And sometimes it can be really funny. Your country has some great Trump jokes. I guess as an American in the UK, this kind of portrayal of Americans gives us the impression that this is how you see us, and combined with life in general, can make things complicated for expats. The anti-American sentiment has increased where I live in North Wales to the point that it can get really uncomfortable for me at times (I posted about this somewhere else on the board). This is because Trump is such a (insert the worse word you can think of here), and this has far-reaching effects. Still, a good parody can be the best thing going no doubt.
I love the humor that the Brits have. I watch a lot of British talk shows and I know how you guys love to take the piss out of politicians and the royal family. But in all honesty I think Trump is just too easy of a target at this point. It's preaching to the choir, an easy way to get people to be agreeable to you.
It's sad and pathetic.
You people used to rule the world. Now you unironically enjoy being walking stereotypes.
I would call the character a big walking stereotype gun wielding capitalist American. If you can't see the satire in that characterisation then it's a shame and the episode was probably lacking. Jokes and content don't land and work for everyone. No need to call people 'sad' and 'pathetic' though just because something didn't resonate with you. By the way - what does unironically mean?
@@2003johnson2 Brits used to be good at satire. If I wanted this sort of lazy Trump garbage I'd just watch Saturday Night Live.
The stereotypical gun wielding capitalist American, as portrayed in liberal media, doesn't actually exist outside the heads of europeans and the American left. That's why it's not a good character. Stereotypes, when used for comedic purposes, work best when they have at least a bit of grounding in reality. Like, say Apu from the Simpsons. Oh wait, he went down the memory hole. Forgive me for the badthink.
I really hate that they are focusing on American politics. I don't want to watch a show that puts a focus on politics. I get enough of it in our day to day lives. I watch Doctor Who to get away from political issues. It's just annoying.
Yeah, I say keep politics with politics and let the fans just be fans of the show without having to deal with all of the politics. But maybe there won't be that much from now on.
So how did you deal with the Happiness Patrol or The Caves of Androzani back in the days?
@@moloids I have mostly seen the New Who. I've seen a few of the 1st Doctor and one of another Doctor in classic who (back when it was on Netflix), but I was still a toddler/preschooler when Doctor Who went on the hiatus back in the day.
One question I had about this episode was how did all the giant spiders get caught in that one room when they were all over Sheffield.
I'm not liking this season at all!! Not one bit.. it's full of lazy writing with lame stories and just plain boring... :( Oh, we won't kill spiders but we will lock them in a room to slowly STARVE them to death. How about using the Tardis to send the spiders to another planet? Is that so hard?? No, it is not! It was just lazy writing...
The spiders would have died anyway, I don't see your point
I hated the way the spider researcher accused the business man of not taking responsibility for the giant spiders. Surely the person to blame is her! She released a genetically modified spider into the world that resulted in the deaths of at least 3 people and she blames the man who owns the company that collected it. He didn't even decide to make the mine a landfill someone at his company did that. Why not make the spider researcher a mad scientist villain or the business man more active/competent to there was actually an antagonist.
This came across as the writer(s) trying to make a political statement about America, who watches the Doctor for politics? Morality, yes. Fun fantasy adventures yes, but writers please keep your political views out of it. The thing felt like a first draft that needed a bit more polish. Still I liked most of it.
She didn't release a genetically modified spider into the world, she was not responsible for this.
it was his bussiness (meaning that he is responsible for what they do or do not do) that didn't dispose of the waste properly, where as she did (she gave it to a company who were supposed to get rid of it correctly), so yeah it is his fault at the end of the day not hers.
@@lwaves oh, who did pass on a living GM spider onto the waste disposal company? Who was it that failed to check if it was dead before letting it leave the lab?
She is not 100% responsible for everything that happened as the spiders mutated further once out in the wild, however if the researchers had followed their own procedures for disposing of these poor animals no one would be dead.
@@charlestownsend9280 OK I see your point, he is in charge and the buck stops with him. Legally I can understand that, but the guy is so incompetent it did not feel narrative satisfying. Maybe they could of established that he knew there was a risk but did it anyway to save money. Greed is a better motivate than stupidity, no?
Jono McFarland well he knew about the landfill and that his company was cutting corners, yet willingly did nothing about it and happy built a hotel over the toxic waste. also yes the people in the lab do hold a tiny ammount of blame for not realising that one of the subject wasn't dead but if it had been disposed of properly then it wouldn't have mattered.
Anyone think that maybe Robertson's had a good?... Hear me out, his intentions are completely wrong but shooting the spiders does seem more humane. The giant spider was suffering and it was kinder the shoot it than force it to suffer more.
Also the other spiders, what did they actually do to them. Are they just going to leave them in the panic room to starve to death?????
Shooting them would have been way more humane than leaving them to starve or suffocate.
Agreed. Such a strange decision, and written so self righteously. It reminded me of, in the first episode, the Doctor tells the Affirmations Guy “you had no right!” and it was written as though it was self evident, but just felt out of place. Except in this episode, it wasn’t just a passing comment, but the actual resolution to the episode.
It really didn’t work for there to be such a moralistic message, but the morals behind it be so questionable. Even the logic of the resolution crumbles under any scrutiny.
I really hope all the others episodes won't be quite as heavy handed as this and Rosa.
I enjoyed Rosa but I didn't enjoy this episode nearly as much
Honestly, the snooty, arrogant, and dangerously irresponsible rich bloke is an ancient archetype that Trump has sort of eclipsed by becoming president. This story with this explanation required a lot of mismanagement and negligence on a corporate level funded by a very rich man who had to be there to explain what we were seeing. From there, they likely realized that the connection was going to be made anyway, so they just sort of ran with it. In for a penny, in for a pound, as they say. Besides, a hotel would make for a pretty solid set piece for a spider chase. As far as I'm concerned, the only point where they went too far was having him run for president. That served no purpose to the plot whatsoever and had no satisfying conclusion. It did provide a simpler motivation for keeping things under wraps, but honestly, being as public a figure as he was, they didn't need it. All it did was make this already blatant subtext into text.
but even the archetype is, as you put it, ancient... the "big bad corporate white man who's only in for the money at any cost" and the "toxic waste is bad for the enviroment you guys!" reeks so bad of the eighties...
"They hit on a notion like what's something the doctor
could deal with... a big spider, yeah, how about a bunch of big spiders, how about like some big spiders and then like one really big spider."
Sums up Planet of the Spiders from Pertwee's last story from season 11 of classic doctor who.
Trump 2.0 was my biggest issue in this episode, I'm honestly annoyed he got to walk away with zero consequences. I don't have a problem with shows getting political if they fit it into the episode or series in a way that's believable but when it's just put there with a big old bullseye on it it just bugs me.
Honestly if we take out this one character the episode is pretty good, it's not the best so far of the series, but it's good. I'm really enjoying the companions we've got and that we're learning about them as we go instead of having one big domestic episode/episodes about them. I think Graham is my favourite again, glad they actually gave him a thought out reason for staying with the doctor and not just some throw away line.
I feel like this is anothrt case of good ideas on paper with a few just thrown in with basic explanations, I was expecting some kind of legit genetic mutation and not just "oh yeah, toxic waste and a corpse but not really will do"
Kind of glad they went with spiders as monsters of the week because I'm arachnophobic and it's just in time for halloween c':
I agree. I don't mind that they had this character, had they done something like maybe jarred him into a change of heart... or finding a heart... or something. I mean, what happened to him and hotel after he shot the spider?
I know I may have commented way too much on this, but RTD's explanation for the missing bees in Series 4 was that bees were aliens. Bees were freaking aliens. But I would still prefer that over toxic waste making spiders big
As a Douglas Adams fan (so long, and thanks for all the fish! - the dolphins), that didn't bother me too much. But yeah, I can see where it's a lurch for some folks.
@@CouncilofGeeks Mostly I just don't understand how so many people glossed over that
First episode since series 7 I tuned out of before the end. Hopefully the last time.
Yes, so did I. I was really into it, then it lost my attention, and then the ending was so abrupt I thought I'd missed something.
JEEVES go back and watch this from the begining of the season, or go to season 8-9. Season 7 is the worst in new who so i dont blame you for dropping out then, i did too. But this season is much more about the characters than the monsters so far so starting on episode 4 youre missing out on alot.
@@one_for_one Oh, no, I have been watching this series and pretty much all of Capaldi. I meant the last time i turned off an episode was season 7.
@@GuanoLad I felt like I was being punched in the face with how much they were shoving the metaphors at me. I hate using this expression, but i actually felt like my intelligence was insulted with not-Trump; crazily holding a gun and saying *"THIS IS WHAT'S GONNA PUT ME IN THE WHITE HOUSE".* At one point, I just threw out my hands and said "I don't care".
JEEVES oh mb, i misunderstood. Out of curiosity was the last time “crimson horror”?
I personally like how, it'd be clever if it was intentional,, that the interactions with Thirteen treats her companions have their foundations in Twelve's experience. That she can't guarantee that they'll be safe and she tells them that flat out, yes, given Twelve lost most of his companions in tragic circumstances. And that she doesn't want to say goodbye to them when.....Twelve spent quite a lot of time in other people's company around Series 10 time (River/Nardole/Missy/Bill), and he hasn't really had a chance to spend time alone, and Thirteen looked genuinely sad about dropping them off.
Agreed. Also, my headcanon is that her repulsion around guns, even when it doesn’t necessarily make logical sense (no guns but suffocation ok? no guns but emp blast ok?) has everything to do with the memory of Bill with that enormous hole blasted through her.
For me, the season is just meandering along, like it is stuck in first gear.
i think the episode was pretty solid except for that one character. i dislike Trump and i didn't mind a few jokes about him in television back in 2016 and such but now Trump jokes have been made so much it just feels like lazy humor at this point. the rest of the episode was pretty great though.
I agree, but I did like that they didn’t necessarily take any position on Trump himself. I just remember overhearing a TV show where the villain just randomly said “let’s make America great again” as he goes off to do evil things. I think I’m fine with it as long as they don’t actually try to say anything about Trump himself. And this is coming from someone who also dislikes Trump btw.
Dat Fishe Boi yeah i get that. i don't mind shows being political, especially Doctor Who because it's always had some politics woven into it. i just feel like when it comes to Trump jokes that horse has been beat so much it's pulled a Nikki Sixx and died twice. it's just not that funny anymore.
Yes, it really is the laziest, most overplayed form of humour right now. But the thing is, in the episode, I didn’t get the sense that it was even written as an attempt at humour. It was just an incredibly weird creative decision to crowbar that in and think it added anything to the narrative.
I wish I could say that this was one of the only times this series where I’ve looked at the writing and wondered, *why in the world would you do that?,* but...
@2manynegativewaves i didn't vote him in. i was 14 when the election happened and i'm almost 17 now. if i had been old enough i wouldn't have. you act as though i wanted him in office. and again i never said i didnt think he was a joke, i just said that the jokes are getting repetitive. i hate him just as much as you do.
Spiders scare me. I like things that scare me. Therefore, I liked the episode.
When Whitaker met Yas's family It felt Matt Smithy to me. It was the way she bantered.
My primary issue with this episode is that it doesn't feel very Doctor Who, I'd say this is one of the most um, 'normal' episodes I've ever seen in Doctor Who. As far as the series goes currently, I find a handful of them just aren't finished as in there's the build up, but once it's all resolved it just... ends. Part of this is likely because of the removal of multi-parters.
Feels like a forgettable episode, such as The Idiot's Lantern, Boom Town, Father's Day, etc, not universally hated but not well liked (unless you hate spiders) also I wish it was linked to the spider episode of the 3rd Doctor era through a way not confusing to fans who haven't seen said episode but old fans will notice it
Jedi Spartan Father’s Day is good though... haha
@@Deadralord777 I just really dislike its
Why do so many people dislike Boom Town?
@@TheSmart-CasualGamer I don't know, I personally like it but just forget it exists
Fair point.
Remind me, is this the first time the Doctor listed why people 'shouldn't' want to travel with him? I can't recall any of the others standing there listing the reasons, saying how dangerous it is, how they can't guarantee their safety, etc, etc and then all the prospective companions just shrugging and saying yeah we're good, lol :)
Is it bad I agreed with the “trump” character, the Spider situation isn’t entirely his fault from what he said he runs one of the worlds biggest companies he can’t possibly keep up with everything going on within it, the show portrayed him as a villain the lab was also to blame and why didn’t they shoot them instead of letting them die a slow painful death
I agree with you about the gun issue.
I feel like you have been pupuing too much based on past experiences with the show. Like disliking historical episodes, and disliking the domestic side of the companions because they have detracted in the past. Both of those things have been done well in the past and could do so again esp. with the new direction.
The Lazarus Experiment was better. It actually ended properly.
Not only that; it also had elements which proved to be important later in the season when Simm's Master turns up in Harold Saxon mode. Nothing about this episode suggested similar foreshadowing.
And there was no aliens! I can’t remember when there wasn’t some kind of alien in a doctor who episode
As someone who's been watching Doctor Who since the 1980s, seeing a Trump analogue in this episode didn't bother me. Who has always parodied political figures, such as Margaret Thatcher in The Happiness Patrol. The best part of this episode was the interactions between the cast. The Doctor was more in charge this time, which was as it should be. I liked Jade; I think she was being set up as a potential companion. To me, the funniest part of the episode, which absolutely no one is talking about, was when Ryan was making shadow puppets in the background while the Doctor and Jade discussed the spiders. I didn't really care for the obvious foreshadowing of a relationship between Ryan and Yaz: can't people just be friends anymore and not automatically become a couple??
I loved the shadow puppets in the background scene! And I liked Jade too.
Watching/Listening to a number of reviews of this episode, I am finding the reviewers from the USA are disliking the Robertson character more than the British reviewers.
The spiders weren't just mutated by the toxic waste, it was also established that were was genetic experiments being performed on spiders by Jade, with the university using the disposal company owned by Robertson, to remove what they thought were dead experiments, so it was a combination of things.
A lot of reviewers seem to be commenting on the "monster/villain of the week" thing. I'd just like to point out that with 10 stand-alone episodes, and with no recurring villains or monsters (as far as we're aware), its pretty obvious that every episode is going to have a villain or monster of the week. We may or may not get Tim Shaw's race back, but who knows?
In my personal opinion, this episode had great concepts, but possibly had a bit too much to deal with and didn't seem to have time to fit them all into a 50 minute episode. An issue this whole series has had so far, certainly in The Ghost Monument and even in Rosa to an extent.
I'm thinking it might be a problem of having too many companions in single episode stories. Three companions worked in the 1960s because a story would generally go over four to six episodes (with some two or three parters) in a series with 40-odd episodes, where each character had time to do something, or for logistical purposes an actor needed to be ready on another set for the next scene, because there was no video editing in 1963-65. Three companions also worked somewhat in 1982, although the production logistics didn't require that many characters as much, but each story still went over four episodes (approx. 100 minutes). Which is a shame because I really enjoy Graham, Ryan and Yaz.
I'd thought it was only me that noticed the very dramatic "I can sort this out" arc of her arm brandishing of the sonic. Nitpicking, the central column on the console seems to obscure everything else being so solid, was it good or bad to have the return of the psychic paper, my decision is still out on that but favouring its return at the moment (going to be a hung jury with me, even the sonic can't undo a deadlock seal we know). "The Green Death", for all its bad CSO and dodgy fly, was a far better allegorical story, as were a few of Pertwee stories. I thought the added 5 minutes on this years stories were meant to be better and really I can't say it has had much, if any, effect as yet, they might have as well maintained the original amount of stories if this is all we get.
I am loving Ryan. The bit in the Spiderlab, where he´s in the background making shadow puppetry is fantastic. He´s always just doing "normal" stuff.
oh and yes THANK YOU!! I to too can't stand how she dramatically uses the sonic screwdriver!!! THANK YOU, I thought it was just me...
if you stop to think there's still a radioactive spider in that apartment
.
I once wrote a Doctor Who story about spiders that was a lot better than this, just saying.
I'm sooooo glad you brought up the way she wields the screwdriver, made me miss 9's way of wielding it like a tool rather than a magic wand.
For a series which is supposed to revitalise the Doctro Who formulae, even changing the gender of the doctor, it's been quite a meh series so far
Josh Weston for some people, maybe
There hasn't been a good episode yet.
@@minepose98 then you have a strange definition of good
I’d agree there hasn’t been an amazing episode yet. I’ve liked them but haven’t been wowed, I’d really like to be though.
They've all been bad to meh.
14:59 I mean a weak argument would be that he's just a device to provide the option of violence in the episode, but its done awfully anyway so
You echoed everything I thought about Robertson. It felt so “in your face” and it was distracting. I felt near lethal levels of cringe when he said “fire and fury”.
0:50 wow i forgot that the lazarus experiment even existed.
It's better that way...
I always enjoyed The Lazarus Experiment except for the awful CGI The CGI in this latest episode was good but the story was not. I'll take bad CGI and good story over good CGI and bad story.
From the first 4 episode i have come up with the opinion that the previous writers really made doctor who a good series. I dont have confidence in the current writters at the moment.
Why did the doctor need help to be let in the hotel ?
Rosa was a good way to handle a political message this wasn’t such a good way to handle a political message
Also to have 2 back to back
Rosa was good aside from the “educational” aspects.
Yeah, I'd agree with the Lazarus Experiment comparison. And it's certainly a bad sign if you're getting such pedestrian episodes so early in a new showrunner's first series.
I also roll my eyes at the over-flourishing with the sonic. Though it's becoming gradually like a thing she just does, to me. She maybe just reaaaally likes to "wield" it? This episode was weird. I didn't care about the spiders, the explanation was overly convoluted, there was like a scene missing at the end to wrap up "well they're all dying in the kitchen now, oh isn't it sad about the mom spider"... I thought for a minute she might try to transport them all to some oxygen rich planet with... I don't know, I guess that wouldn't work cause they'd be killing some other defenseless animal to live. And the Trump guy was annoying. BUT I loved all the Team Tardis character stuff a lot. I loved Ryan's distaste for his dad's letter, Graham's grief, Yaz's obnoxious yet loving family, the Doctor's oblivious cheerful bluntness. It reminds me of the episodes in Eleven's run that I found stupid but enjoyed watching Matt Smith being the Doctor, except here with all the core team. At some point they're gonna nail both of those things at the same time. Please. I hope.
Graham's reaction to his Lose sounds like some empathetic writing. I've also been dealing with Grief and it's the moments that you stop being busy, that you become vulnerable to despair. His brush with Cancer probably has shaken him up as well. Graham seems very relatable to me.
Despite having a couple of scary scenes, the episode was absolutely terrible, and was one of the most lazily written episodes in the show's history. It couldn't decide whether it wanted to be an all-out horror, a black comedy, a farce or sincere poignant message, and instead attempts to be all four in the space of 50 minutes. Needless to say it doesn't work. The acting was also universally poor, the episode was painfully unfunny and the opening 20 minutes was like an episode of Emmerdale. It had no focus at all.
Spot on.
I can tell you really liked it! :)
@@jonathan.palfrey indeed! :)
@@obiwankenobi687 Well in my humble opinion it was. What did you like about it?
6:24 It's not nitpicky, and I'm glad people are finally starting to notice. Ever since ep. 2 every time I see the doctor use the sonic, it just looks unnecessarily unnatural. What happened to the slick way 10 and 11 used to use that?
Doctor Who is probably going to go downhill fast if we don’t get a creative and engaging new writer...
The next half of the series will be written almost entirely by new writers so there’s hope.
my problem with this story is what happenend to the spiders? did she really just leave them all cramped in that panick room to die? how could she be so sure they all went in
my comment added before i finished.
wouldn't they mate in there? just fee like there's so many unanswered questions. doesn't seem very doctory to leave an entire new species to die slowly and alone in a box
In fact they could be pretty sure they *didn't* all go in, given that earlier they indicated that they were spread out well beyond the hotel...
@@irrevenant3 yes I thought that too. How would they know?
i agree that the arm swinging the screwdriver is super annoying.
I can't believe I didn't realize until today that the bath scene with the giant spider was basically "the spider went up the water spout"! A drain in this case, but ...yep.
Tbh i was enjoying it but to me it had a two part vibe. I thought the spiders were going to spread out to the rest of the UK but the episode just ended with a very simple solution(felt a bit disappointing).
I really did like the chemistry the characters had though. I really liked Yaz's mum and I felt this episode was kind of funny.
I was thinking the exact same thing when she used her screwdriver😂😂😂. I 100% agree.
P.S Writing my review, I realised I want
- a 2 parter episode
- More sci fi elements. None of these episodes had a sci-fi vibe to me and im longing for that.
The 'rude through blunt honesty' may be a purposeful call to Jodie Whittaker being from Yorkshire, a part of the UK quite well known for 'saying it as it is'. Whittaker also retains her very typical Northern England/Yorkshire accent.
It took me until Series 9 for me to completely love Capaldi. A new Doctor is almost always going to be a slow burner.
I actually liked Capaldi early on, but didn't like the stuff they gave him to do later. Whittaker is definitely a slow-burner. She has traits recycled from previous Doctors and needs some time to figure out her doctor.
At this point, I'm just worried the writing will never get better.
@@TheCrippledEgg She keeps having moments that remind me of David Tennant. Her speech about humanity in the first episode reminded me of the Lion King Scene. In this one it was the "Dude" line - so reminiscent of "Rude and not Ginger."
I felt like a lot Capaldi scripts were written for Matt Smith and it wasn't until the second series that the writers figured him out. I get the same feeling here - just trying lots of things to figure out what is going to work.
I've personally never had that. Every doctor has distinctly cemented themselves by the third episode in my experience. So this is new for me.
@@SamyulDavis I have had the same experience.
Great review. This is some of the best Doctor Who reviewing and commentary I've seen period.
I enjoyed this week's episode. I liked the compassion towards the spiders which are usually hated. I feel like if I was a kid, this episode would have made me like them lol. As with other people in the comments, I also thought the ending was really abrupt and it confused me how the situation was resolved.. I didn't mind the Trump character but maybe that's because I'm from england so I don't hear about him as often as Americans do. Usually I hate cheap jokes at Trump because it's so easy but I didn't mind this character. My only issue is that he never faced any sort of consequence (i.e. for locking Kevin in with the spider) but I get that the message was probably that these type of people never face consequences, are forever trapped in their ways sort of thing. And, I always enjoy the domestic side of the story in dw haha so I loved meeting Yas' family! Fun episode and Jodie is always a joy to me!
Spiders in Sheffield? I think not ... the existing title is a reference to the 'Anarchy In The UK' music album....
Weakest episode yet. Is Chibnall ever going to allow another writer a go? (Even Rosa was co-written by him). I agree it could've been a fun episode, but that one character constantly reminded me of why I like to lose myself in fantasy sometimes. And yes, I immediately thought of Lazarus Experiment. On the plus side, the CGI spiders were well executed, Graham was terrific as well, and Jodie's Doctor was delightful. But I kept wishing that her Doctor would do a Capaldi and just strike fake-Trump across the face. Overall, a throwaway episode for me.
What'd up expect? Natural evolution of huge spiders? The large spiders in the episode give birth to the regular ones? Robertson is an alien smuggling spiders to invade earth?
Exposure to alien technology probably would've been the simplest, reasonably plausible explanation...
@@irrevenant3 maybe maybe. But how would that effect the spiders? Unless it comes from metebelis three?
@@roguebritgravy1 Any sort of biological manipulation technology could inadvertently have bad effects on native terrestrial lifeforms.
@@irrevenant3 ok genius
Can you please comment on the second instance of token lesbian fake "representation"?
By far, my favorite scene in the whole episode was when the doctor and the spider scientist were talking and you could see Ryan making shadow puppets in the background
I didn't like this episode and the one before it because they tried to be OVERTLY political rather than be allegorical and subtle about it. The businessman character in this episode was cartoonish, 1 dimensional and was a cheap Trump knock-off, furthermore there's even a cringeworthy scene where the characters take a jab at Trump and at this point I'm going how is this even relevant to the sci-fi story about giant spiders? I don't mind political messages but please keep real-life people out of it, if you were to look back on these episodes a decade from now they will feel dated BECAUSE of referencing real life pop culture figures.
Why would you build a hotel on top of a toxic dump, and have an entrance to the dump inside the hotel?
what happened to the rest of the spiders they didnt deal with them. this episode was one of the worst ones ive ever seen
The Musical Build Team they all went to the panic room.
yes but nothing happened to them after that and they never tried to save the spiders victims
The Musical Build Team not sure I follow you, nothing was meant to happen to them after that, they simply went in there and died. The victims were already dead when they found them.
ok but what killed the spiders. did they get too big and suffocate like the big one did or did they die of starvation?
The Musical Build Team either is possible, they died though. That’s all that really matters.
AM i the only one who thought even though this episode had Yaz's family she still seemed like the "extra" companion?
No. Although, to be fair, it's hard for her not to seem like the "extra" companion when Ryan and Graeme's characters are so intertwined.
OMG I'm so happy that I'm not the only one who doesn't like the way the Doctor wields the screwdriver, it's so over the top and really really annoys me 😂
Once again, I find myself pretty much 100% in agreement. A "low-density" episode with nice characterisation for Graham, but yeah, Trump-lite was a bit hamfisted, and unnecessary. I thought this story was a sorely missed opportunity to reference Planet Of The Spiders - I was waiting for a web to spell out "All praise to The Great One" - but instead, and some folks have already pointed it out, it harked back to The Green Death, which could also have been mentioned...
Not dreadful, but just... packing peanuts for better stories? At least Yaz got a bit more to do!
What's up with all these American references in the British show
ManiacMadness11 pandering to the yank market. Because dr who isnt british anymore.
8:10 "Is it 1985 again?"
It's LONDON 1965!
Funnily, so far this has been the best episode of the season. To me, it had the best pacing of all the episodes. The performances were strong, the spiders creeped me out...I hope I didn't develop arachnophobia from watching this. It is certainly the best script by Chibnall thus far. Jodie was on fire, and finally some character development for Yas.. I still wish it was Clyde and Rani instead of Ryan and Yas. Ah well, this is the first sign that the show might be getting better finally. I wish there had been more references to Planet of the Spiders...such as an all hail the great one comment form the Doctor just in passing when dealing with the giant mother spider. Ah well, at least there has been progress.
Were you including Chibnall's pre-Season-11 scripts in that? Personally I thought The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood was pretty good, and quite enjoyed Dinosaurs on a Spaceship...
@@irrevenant3 Yes, I was including pre-Season-11 scripts. Chris does character development well, but typically has underwhelmed me on everything else that he has touched. I was very worried when he was announced as the show runner because of how forgettable his prior scripts had been. I also have been a bit against him ever since watching a Dr Who Appreciation society interview with him in it on one of the classic DVDs. He had a very different opinion of whatever story it was than did I, and shows that his take doesn't align with mine, generally. I have never been a big fan of the Silurians, but do have a bit of a soft spot for Dinosaurs on a Spaceship. Those were pretty much the highlights of his previous scripts.
The first three shows this year were very slow paced, and I was not enjoying the show. My lack of enjoyment had nothing to do with the cast or the technical crew. Pacing is on the writer and director. I did enjoy Chris Noth in this role and personally think the story wouldn't have worked without his character or someone similar. I want to clarify that a BETTER story would have worked without him, but THIS story needed him.
During the latter half I was thinking "they've set up quite a lot here. I feel like this is going to be a two-parter" but I wasn't even enjoying it too much so as much as this concept may have benefited from a more fleshed out story that another episode could have provided, I'm glad there wasn't because I would've been pretty bored.
Side note though: Who allowed the body guard to carry a gun in Sheffield? The police aren't even allowed guns. Does the hotel guy have to tell his niece that her wife is dead now? Are those spiders just in that panic room forever now? What happens when people go to the hotel to stay? Because it's definitely going to be a functioning hotel in the future. Does Ryan need a new phone now? Surely he had to leave his phone in the panic room to lure the spiders in. What did they do with the people who were killed by the spiders? Did they carry them out of the mines? Do they get funerals? Isn't it going to reflect badly on the hotel guy and his presidential campaign when he gets corpses wheeled out of his hotels? What happens to the woman covered in webbing in her flat? Did anyone report it to the police?
Bit of a rant here:
I would say that what it lacked in story it could have made up for in character development for the Doctor and company but it didn't really do a whole lot in terms of that. I like the dynamic between the Doctor and the companions as the season progresses; it's more like a team of friends than any other Doctor/companion dynamic I've seen before (except maybe 10 and Donna). I will say though, I feel like this episode established Whittaker's Doctor as someone who is deeply lonely during the beginning. She jumps at the opportunity to go to Yaz's for tea and that moment was both fun and quite sad. It was touched on a bit in the first episode of the season as well. I think this season could do with delving a bit more into that side of the Doctor. She parted with Nardole, Bill, Missy, Clara, as well as River from what we saw of Capaldi's regeneration when the ring slipped off her finger. It was incredibly symbolic of leaving River behind. Now I'm not saying Whittaker needs to characterise her Doctor as someone steeped in sadness and grief because I love her quirky upbeat take on the role. But certainly there should be elements of that because she is still inhabiting the life wherein those people have left and they are gone and she has lived an uncountable amount of years. Like Capaldi's Doctor said in The Doctor Falls: "I can't keep on being somebody else". Surely that's something Whittaker's Doctor would remember. In concept, looking at the Doctor as, in River Song's words, "an ageless god" might sound rather impressive but it definitely carries with it a note of sadness. Maybe it's something Chibnall will expand upon and I hope he does. Overall I'm not loving this season so far and I don't really know what to think of the next episode from the teaser, but it doesn't look incredible.
First, I enjoy your reviews (for the record, last week's "second take" on "Rosa" was both thought-provoking and gut-wrenching to watch), and I have never commented here. I am bummed that, after four episodes of this series, I'm done as a regular viewer. I have watched on-and off since I was a child. I thought Peter Capaldi's take (which included character growth) was near-perfection in terms of what I expected and needed from The Doctor, and I hated to see him leave. But now I feel like saying to Dr. Who, "I'm very sorry about what's happened to you. Since I generally oppose violence (well, except for Cybermen and Daleks) and cannot afford to put a bullet in my TV, I will simply lock it in a room and allow the show to starve on the emptiness of its own high-minded self-important PC-edness." This episode pretty much burned my eyes (apart from Jodi's utterly awful costume, the way she wields her sonic, the not-subtle-at-all anti-Trump, the inhumane non-solution for the poor spiders) . . . for all that Graham tugs on my heart-strings and the spiders were just fricking cool.
Oh, and they killed Kevin. How lame.
I think Graham was the best part of this episode. I love psychoanalysis of characters and how it progresses a story, I find it fascinating. To see Graham unable to escape his grief in Sheffield, he finds an outlet to look forward in with the Doctor, his grandson, and Yaz. I really can't wait to see more of these perspectives on the characters and how they cope with the world changing around them, as that in part is what inspires me to write.
I'm glad you brought up Noth's character, because he ruined the episode for me. I feel like these characters are put in place specifically to spark political conversations. The fact that you even had to bring him up, is proof that is having the same affect, that it had on me. I don't think Chibnall even knows what an allegory is. If this show is going to be designed around provoking a political debate every Sunday, this long term fan will be leaving this universe. I don't need all of my entertainment to be mirror politics all of the time. I'm already at strike 2, and I'm out. It's a shame, because I really like doctor, and this cast of companions. I wanted Doctor Who to be whimsical and fun again, but as you said, you can do politics in science fiction, and not be so direct. Star Trek did it brilliantly for years. These last two episodes made me extremely uncomfortable. I'm terrified of spiders, but Noth's character ruined any of the tension. Also...this Doctor hasn't really done anything all that heroic yet, and these companions are all ready to blindly follow her into the sun which seems kind of odd. Seems like a combination of lazy writing, and poor character development. Just my minor gripe. Thanks for another great review!
Agreed
What bothered me was the fact that nobody panicked when they realised they were standing in a room that the Doctor said was full of toxic gases