I love this video Dylan! There is also one more adjustment besides what you did you may have to check. There are two rollers where the belt is attached. Check the rollers( by looking inside into the gap between the rollers). On the rollers there are two holes that will have screws. If they come a bit loose you also get that shaky movement. Playing with Distance adjustment screws is not easy at all. The way I do, I make it tight. Try to move the mount during the day. And it will create that bounce effect. I then back off 1/16 or may be twice of 1/16. If it works great. I leave it in there.
I personally just bit the bullet and took apart my AZ-EQ6. I was thinking, it either goes wrong and I'll be hitting my head for a year or.. I learn a ton and improve the thing. Luckily it is the latter, mounts really aren't that difficult, but you have to pay very close attention and take a ton of pictures. I cleaned all my gears, used better lube in the right quantities and replaced the standard bearings for better ones. It's been very reliable ever since + I now know what to do to get rid of whatever issue arises. :)
Its a fantastic feeling innit ? I have now rebuilt and "hyper tuned" an Advanced GT, an Atlas EQ-G and a CGEM. The CGEM was the hardest of all because it was a crap piece of equipment frankly. Pot metal, errant powder coating on internals, etc. But, the satisfaction of getting everything cleaned, and lubed and properly reassambled and torqued pays dividends when you're chasing an issue with imaging or visual use. At least if you do a good job you know it's not your work that caused it.
For a PDF of the "collectors item" Celestron Manual that contains the worm gear mesh adjustment google "91530-1_CGX_EQ+Mount+and+Tripod_Manual_5" and it should be near the top of the hits. Daytime adjustment was not too difficult. Both my mounts track a little worse in RA than Dec. In post-processing I generally do a gentle deconvolution with an aspect ratio to match the elliptical stars in PixInsight but I realise that's not everybody's cup to tea. On polar alignment I can't recommend enough PhD2's "Polar Drift Align" where you can use your guidescope. Best channel.
The full hypertune process is described in the youtube videos titled "Celestron CGX Mount RA / Tracking Problem" by Dave Compton. He followed suggestions from the company that provides the Hypertune service that they recommend before sending the mount head to them for service.
@@DylanODonnell Dude, never say that when there's folks getting millions of subs for playing with kittens. You put real thought, skill and humour into your videos. You're right up there with Astrobiscuit.
I agree. Just don't change what you're doing or how you present it. Too many people change their content to attract more subscribers. I love you just the way you are. Hey, that sounds like a good song title!
A little trick about the stars - do shorter exposures just for the stars and then replace them in the original image. Some might consider it cheating, I say that's just HDR :) Great video as usual. You always have the perfect mix of humor and astro stuff. And yes I have also tuned my CGX with those screws even though it is still under warranty (which I'm guessing at this point is no longer valid)
Nice work explaining adjustments and what to watch as you make adjustments. ANOTHER BIG ITEM to look for on the Cgx mount. BELT TENSION. If it’s too tight, you WILL wear out the bronze bushings on the drive shaft in the drive motor . A lot of detailed information on cloudynights regarding this issue. Thanks for your presentations. Always something learned. Take care
I have the same setup. I will 'carefully' investigate the RA and DEC gears. I would have liked to have seen a 5min or 6min exposure. You are correct about the f/10 greatly amplifying the tracking error ... you got to be spot on with the polar alignment and balance. Thanks for this very useful video Dylan.
Perfect timing!! I just spent the night problem solving elongated stars with CGX. Most likely being flexure at the camera mounting point on guidescope. Good video Dylan.
Nice work Dylan. Half of the fun is tweaking these mounts. Then a quick shot of Jupiter so the wife doesn't think I am nuts. Great results on your improved guiding. I don't have a CGX but an AVX benefitted greatly from tweaking the gear mesh. I used a wattmeter on the power supply and got the gears as snug as I could without resulting in extra current draw. As soon as the current rose I knew they were too tight so backed it off a fraction Did similar with an AZ-EQ 6. Not a pro, just a tweaker but super happy with the results.
Great info Dylan, I have a Celestron CGE mount and at the time was Celestron's best mount, but boy was it built & heavy! Being a newer design it had to go back to Celestron for service common issues, stoped using then last year put on order a CGX mount but the next canceled just to heavy and did not trust that it would be a mount for 10 years and sorry Dylan this reminds me of the lower quality of Celestron. Got an IOption CEM60 way better than any Celestron mount and PEC blows almost all mounts but the AP mounts away. It can hold 60 LBS load (but like all mounts cut in half for Astrophotography) and weighs 27 lbs. Sorry Celestron super long time customer from the Powerstar scope, but not anymore...
Great intro and even greater insights about what could cause these stars elongation. I'm lucky to have the manual that includes the care and maintenance sections you mentioned. Thanks again Dylan.HJ. Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I have to say, that I had an AVX, and thought that I was just terrible at doing astrophotography. Truth is I am. But the entry level AVX was also terrible at doing astrophotography. So I spent quite a bit of time following tutorials, trying to tweak and improve my mount. I learned just how bad the design is, and after 3d printing improvements and pulling my hair out, I bought a better mount, and now I'm really happy. Now I do have to tune and tweak things on occasion because I didn't spend a million dollars, but everything works so much better now. Mine has a spring loaded worm which can be more forgiving, but I do have to tune it on occasion. Luckily it's a Losmandy, so tweaking and tuning is pretty straight forward.
Love your videos and sense of humor, the world sure could use millions more like you! I tried to order from High Point Scientific but they refuse to ship to Guam, USA...I have spent a total of ~$10,000.00 USD since then through another company who does ship here.
Too add to what Dylan said WD-40 stands for “Water Displacement 40” only reason why it’s called 40 is because it’s the 40th formulation. Great for keeping bike chains from rusting up, but it’s not a lubricant. Fun fact it was originally a product sprayed on the atlas rocket to control ice buildup due to the oxygen tank being cold. One more thing I love to super lube my mount. lol!
Great video Dylan. Now i know how to Hypepertune my CGX in the future if i need one. I hade done it to my AVX and worked like a charm. My AVX fast faulty but with loos gear, and i got it down to about 1 arc second at best. Now i use it for planets, sun and comets. You cant have enoght of mounts acording to Chuck *LOL*
I just did mine. I think you may find that the best way is to take out any "Play". When you hold the end of the counter balance rod, you may find a slight clunk, clunk around RA. Adjust until it's gone. Do the same for Dec. It's better than trial and error.
I have the CGX-L and have likewise tinkered with the Dec and RA gear meshing. I was forced to after my mount developed the well-known and dreaded 'honking' phenomena when slewing. I eliminated the honking and I've improved things a little in terms of tracking, but I think there's a limit to what these mounts are capable of. Having said that, I think it would be great to see more vids of people 'tuning' their CGX/L mounts.
Respect! Hypertune seemed to involve 'ceramic' bearings and a lot of other hocus-pocus to achieve many hundreds of $ prices. I took my (very old, pre-loved) Celestrom CGEM mount to bits. Cleaned and lubed the sh*t outta it. Adjusted the 'pinch' on the worm gear then balanced (as best one can with a Newt) and all was a lot better. Who Dares Wins but I wouldn't advise on a new/in warranty mount! Caveat Emptor.
I see your update, usually at around 2am UK time - this times' different - 2pm-ish BST! You're up late ;P. Oh that subtle chuckle at "SuperLube" - lol. I would max out my Visa to fly to the farthest country, in the darkest corner of the 'round' world and slide down to the deepest hole I can find before I attempt anything like this on my AVX! Keep going bro, another milestone!
Hey Dylan great video! I hyper tuned my CGEM a while back. I definitely don't recommend it to somebody who isn't mechanically inclined. Celestron does not want you to disassemble their mounts (lots of loctite on screws and nuts). All turned out well just the same. If memory serves me correctly it involved ceramic bearing replacement on worm gears shaft, lots of polishing of the ring gear bushing and teflon spacer installation. One of my complaints about Celestron is the lack of information on how to maintain and service the mounts and the inability to purchase replacement parts. You may get a lot of requests to share that manual with the outdated tuning section....it does not surprise me Celestron took that part out......
Yep! The whole page is in the video.. that's all it was.. and it didn't really describe the process I came up with here, just a few lines about those screws!
Thanks for another great video Dylan. I've had same challenge with my 9.25 EHD w/CGX setup. It was frustrating but finally root caused it to the back focus not being correct. Never tried opening up or tuning the CGX. Cheers
That's pretty good results for a bit of fiddling. And no, I did not have the magic manual that explains this procedure,so I went PTMD. Still, no regrets, the ASA runs at 0.3" RMS. Thanks for making a video about it, I'll try it out on the cgx myself.
There used to be a guy in Melbourne who could retune your mount but he either lost interest or moved onto other things, He used to run Bintel in Camberwell here in Melbourne before they shut up shop and just have the Sydney store, a real bummer.
my problem is the opposite using Orion atlas mount. My RA sits at ~0.9RMS or less while DEC is always above 1.5RMS even if guiding in once direction only or turned off. Should have invested in 10Micron or Paramount :)
Great video as always Dylan! I have been thinking about hypertuning my avx and I am now going to look into that. You and trevor really have informative and enjoyable videos keep up the good work!
There are no service of celestron in India. I had issue with my nexstar 4se but the only solution is to exchange. I bought through b&h and I had to pay for return shipment so I decided to fix scope myself. Lucky issue was only with flip mirror and I able to fix it. Right now it might have issue in tracking but as it's alt az mount can't be sure whether it's desine issue or actual tracking.
I have done extensive investigation into and tuning to my CGX and concluded it can only track with an accuracy of around 1 arcsec RMS. Out of the factory adjustment and worm shaft bearing preload leaves a lot to be desired and the bronze clutch drums rubbed on the main housings making balancing a challenge. My worms were so tight axially the worm was dragging in the bearings and the bearing fit on the worm shaft was as they say "like a cock in a sock" I measured 0.02mm undersized. The main limitation is not so much gear backlash (what Dylan is addressing here) as the location of the motor encoder being on the end of the motor shaft. I suspect Celestron chose this location because they can use a lower resolution encoder. It really should be a high resolution unit on the output of the motor/gearbox, this is why. The CGX motors have a gear reduction box on the output. The backlash in this box is really quite poor to the point where my mount always fails Dec backlash compensation from PHD2. This is because the backlash is so great and PHD2 limits the amount of correction to what they consider practical, the mount thus is in a constant oscillation as PHD2 struggles to keep up. In conclusion I would not recommend this mount for scope of greater than 800mm FL. Oh and finally I feel better qualified than most on this subject as I have a mechanical engineering background rather than the unqualified opinions commonly seen on the net. Incidentally Celestron may have removed the adjustment procedure from the CGX manual but it is still present in the CGC-L mount manual. Since the mechanical arrangement is identical between the two mounts you can use the published -L manual for the standard CGX.
Trolled you for a bit but just subbed. Learning a lot from you, amongst others, please keep doing you, lovvviiieeeeee. Oh please tell Bintel to update their calculator to reflect the ZWO ASI2600MC DUUUO. I want that, along with the Hyperstar v4.
I was about to do the exact same thing, but Rod at Celestron emailed me and told me that it would void my warranty...like I got the email as I was walking outside to take off the motor/gear covers. So now Celestron has it and is sorting it out. I got so frustrated with it that I bought a Paramount MX+. Now I'm buried in manuals trying to learn TheSkyX.
that's just silly. That's like a car manufacturer saying you can't change the tyres cos it'll invalidate the warranty. Celestron has to PROVE that what you've done has contributed to the damage to said mount. It's not up to you to disprove it.
very nice dylan, congrats on the hypertune. iv'e seen your hypertuned star profile and it looks good, a very random patern instead of trailing but also on track, which kinda shows that you are pass the mounts tuneable limitation ie "hypertuned "and now more relying on seeing and pulse correction settings . i know something else you could try, setting the worm float if you already haven't , i use a dail indicator that i use for my lathe and i set my worm float to 50 microns play , pretty tight tolerance , i even swaped for better bearings for the worm , most mount manufactures use roller bearings ie the ones simular in skateboards or roller blades , idealy conical bearings would be better for the worm drive to compensate against the load in the horizontal axis . I even go as far with my tune to rotate the bad spot of the ra worm wheel disc into a spot that dosn't get used and then permantly lock the clutch and tune the mount on the good areas of the worm wheel . some people lap their worm wheels with grit for hours to get the small error of imperfections out . every astronomer enthusiast should learn to tune thier mount , there's a hit or miss in mechanical pression with mass manufacturing especialy on the worm wheel in tracking mounts and the adjustments before it gets sent out , ( i assume most manufacturers give thier mounts a little play for the temperature difference in different regions) btw check your tune again in summer incase it's too tight to avoid binding and dammage , the temperature will change your tune in the seasons .
I've never heard the term worm float before but it sounds like you're setting the backlash, especially since you mentioned thermal changes and that you used a dial indicator.
Another Great video Dylan, LOL at the "Adapter 9 USD, Shipping 69 USD" haha as a Chilean (end of the World) its usually like that, Saludos southern hemisphere mate!!
Dylan, doesn't platesolving allow for significantly more precision (and ease of use) over star alignment? You mentioned doing star alignment twice - when platesolving, you can have an iterative process until you are under an error which you define
These mounts are quite simple in mechanic point of view, if somebody has some "mech" experience. It is quite simplet to take care, or "hypertune" but the kez you must know what you do. I already hypertuned lot of time my first EQ5 mount. But i can say the EQ5 mechanical quality is....... Then I bought an HEQ5 used and my first part was disassemble and cleaned and regreased with super lube. I can say, the HEQ5 way better than EQ5 for mech point of view. But i still not confident with the bearings. These bearins doing the job, quite ok, but i will change these sometimes in the future... But every "mech" needs some "take care" does not matter that is CGX, HEQ5, EQ6 or 10 micron...
I think you need to ramp things up to the next level. While the lab coat definitely makes you look smarter, a bow tie would practically make you a genius.
Dylan... love your hands-on showing how you actually do things as opposed to other who just talk and wave their arms... that is KUDOS... anyway... hopefully you can weigh in... as I have the C11 Edge and CGX-L - and picked up a lot of great info from you!!!! so the question is... are you happy with the CGX-L that is good enough to image at native 2,800mm focal length (f/10)? many of my friends in the astronomy club with similar gear only image using the reducer at f/7 FL 1,960mm because it's just too challenging to image at 2,800 - what say you... and really what a pleasure to check out your videos!!!
Great video Dylan, I enjoy watching detailed videos like this. I have a very old Sirius and an Atlas Pro mount neither of which I have done any maintenance on. I have been scared to touch any type of fine astro equipment however, after watching this I feel confident in trying to adjust the mounts should they need it. - Cheers
Dylan Fantastic Video Bro, Luv it, Make's me more comfortable in Purchasing a Plane Wave L-350 Mount for my 16" Meade OTA. & Thank You Very Much for being accessible to your Base! Much Respect to you.
The same issue crops up on lots of CGX mounts, look up on cloudynights that many use a thin shim to rectify it..don't think a hypertune is adjusting a screw, far more to it than that...and superlube is the way to go.. thank me later
That's caused from insufficient clearance between the ring gear and the housing. I hypertuned my old CGEM and the process requires sanding down the ring gear to the point where it will move freely in it's housing.
Hey @dylan have you ever toyed around with playing back the error correction from PHD Logs ? Perhaps you could work that final bit of predictable PE with that feature ?
Excellent video! P.S please don't advertise High Point Scientific as every time I try ordering new gear lately it's sold out or on back order. Lol Great company with a very helpful staff.
Nice tune from KaizanBlu brother to round out this vid ....feel for ya and my other brothers in Aussie. It's a real shit about you going back into lockdown not sure if that effects your Fam living the dream in NZ ,
I see the clear difference, but theres no way I'm opening the eq6r pro😛 Good to know there are 3rd parties for this, if the time comes. For now with the z61 ive been able to get 5 minutes without guiding and stars that look like your before photo..which isnt horrible (at my short focal length) ;) guiding is now set up and awaiting my week off during the perseids peak 📷🔭🌌👍
Hi Dylan, this video was not meaningless! Question: how long was your time lapse on phd2 and how dit you record it? With the camera on your phone maybe? CS from Holland
Fantastic video - really enjoyed it. I was just wondering if you’d also tried the new(ish) PPEC guiding algorithm in PHD as an alternative to the normal hysteresis?
Dylan...the tracking on my CGX went to shit...it was the bushings in the motor gearboxes. I replaced the bushings with bearings, and the tracking was better than when the mount was new.
g`day dylan great video mate ... you get a lot of condensation in that dome do you think you might have a slight corrosion (notchiness/grinding) in the bearings the main and the motor roller bearings that is giving you the shake from stickion or slight binding i am surprised you don't have wiring problems with all the moisture on the electrical contacts .. have you ever thought about getting a industrial fan( small barrel type) or a carpet dryer to get some air into the dome to keep it dryer inside or maybe a whirligig roof ventilation might help i don't think the damprid is cutting it anymore and i would hate to hear that the edge 11 got mold inside or other gear crapping out well looks like your getting things a lot better with adjustments (just think of it as learning to do culmination again lol) 0.9 is better than 1.5 rms tot ... you should of tried a repco or a auto supply shop for the lube i think that super lube is around i have seen it before in oz oh well good luck with the adjustments hope you get the problem sussed out and the CGX comes good and you get back to nice round stars again.. looking forward to your next video. please keep us updated with your progress with the mount i am very interested in you final outcome and annalise's ....... some nice upgraded ceramic bearings would be a nice investment in the CGX i would glide like a ice skater lol (in my best homer simpson voice) mmmmmm round stars lol cheers james D
@@DylanODonnell stupid stuff is great until the wife hears about it .. that's usually when you find out your great new toy is stupid stuff lol ....... enjoy while you can
I just love your content dude! I had to go through this process as well but I wasn't aware of the whole hypertune thing. Bit frustrating doing it in the dark. Ended up losing 2 of those tiny cover crews in the event horizon. I wonder if Bintel offers the hypertune service as well. Btw I got a hyperstar for my C11 recently & I'm pretty sure I have the collimation bang on. I noticed that some of the stars are elongated slightly in one corner. Just realised that I hadn't checked to see if the corrector plate itself was centered before setting it all up. Just wondering if this could possibly one of the factors for you as well.
I wonder if the shape of your guide star is giving you some of your issue. They are pretty egg shaped so PHD2 could be struggling to calculate the centroid properly.
also, I'm not familiar with celestron mounts at all, but is there anywhere you can get to the worm gear and turn it manually by hand? This is the best way to check for binding because you should be able to feel it has your rotate the gear around the shaft. One of the guys here in Brisbane came up with a great idea for his EQ6 where he gets a bit of relatively strong rubber tubing that fits snugly over the spindle end of the worm gear uses that to rotate the mount, as soon as there is any binding it will cause the tube to just slip and spin freely. you can then adjust the distance at that exact spot where it binds and continue on for the full 360 degrees to keep checking
Yeh the guide star shape seems to be a feature of the OAG prism . it does't help so I try to choose very small stars. I don't think I have a bind issue but I do think the backlash is higher than it should be because of the ageing belts. I'm going to try get nicer new ones I've heard improve the CGX.. and that sounds easy enough for someone like me even :)
@@DylanODonnell New belts definitely won't hurt. Shouldn't be hard to replace, the tricky bit will be getting the correct tension on them though. More trial and error fun
Do any of the CGX users out there also run PEC? I haven’t graduated to an advanced level. Btw, I sent my CGX out for hypertune (drove up to Phoenix bc I live in Tucson) and the mount came back with lots of error and the home limit switch off even though multiple polar alignments showed I was within 15” alignment
Hey mate, I have a lot less experience than you and you probably already do that so almost feel bad but have you tried using sharpcap before your polar alignment? I have a Meade LX85 (much lower level than yours) and I get tot 0.2
Hi Dylan, Would tinkering like this void your warranty as I am having an issue with my CGX where the RA axis seems to be binding and jerking when I attempt to align and press the hand controller arrow buttons for the RA axis. I have a later CGX and there is no mention of the spacing or tension adjustment screws in the manual.
Yes it would void your warranty but the behaviour you mention at also be bad balance with the counterweights OR try resetting/upgrading the firmware on the hand controller. If that fails .. contact Celestron or your vendor for support .
Dylan O'Donnell Btw i wanted to ask you which telescope you would recommend to buy ( I currently have a 6 inch dobsonian) for astrophotography (ps. I cant believe that you responded to my comment!)
Gear Porn, White Jacket, oversized shadow hands in the obsy, SUPER LUBE 😋😋😋!!!!!! I cannot take it anymore 🤪🤗🤪 Too much indulgence in one RUclips video 🙏🤣😂🤣😂 You killin me 👌
I love this video Dylan! There is also one more adjustment besides what you did you may have to check. There are two rollers where the belt is attached. Check the rollers( by looking inside into the gap between the rollers). On the rollers there are two holes that will have screws. If they come a bit loose you also get that shaky movement. Playing with Distance adjustment screws is not easy at all. The way I do, I make it tight. Try to move the mount during the day. And it will create that bounce effect. I then back off 1/16 or may be twice of 1/16. If it works great. I leave it in there.
Great vid for those of us trying to do adjustments to the CGX!
You're trying to do adjustments too? Oh man I can't wait to see the outtakes!!
I guess now it's your turn. We are all waiting for you fixing your EQ6 issue😃
1. exactly 10 minutes
2. humor
3. astro stuff
+ additional lab coat
perfect video
I personally just bit the bullet and took apart my AZ-EQ6. I was thinking, it either goes wrong and I'll be hitting my head for a year or.. I learn a ton and improve the thing. Luckily it is the latter, mounts really aren't that difficult, but you have to pay very close attention and take a ton of pictures. I cleaned all my gears, used better lube in the right quantities and replaced the standard bearings for better ones. It's been very reliable ever since + I now know what to do to get rid of whatever issue arises. :)
Its a fantastic feeling innit ? I have now rebuilt and "hyper tuned" an Advanced GT, an Atlas EQ-G and a CGEM. The CGEM was the hardest of all because it was a crap piece of equipment frankly. Pot metal, errant powder coating on internals, etc. But, the satisfaction of getting everything cleaned, and lubed and properly reassambled and torqued pays dividends when you're chasing an issue with imaging or visual use. At least if you do a good job you know it's not your work that caused it.
For a PDF of the "collectors item" Celestron Manual that contains the worm gear mesh adjustment google "91530-1_CGX_EQ+Mount+and+Tripod_Manual_5" and it should be near the top of the hits. Daytime adjustment was not too difficult. Both my mounts track a little worse in RA than Dec. In post-processing I generally do a gentle deconvolution with an aspect ratio to match the elliptical stars in PixInsight but I realise that's not everybody's cup to tea. On polar alignment I can't recommend enough PhD2's "Polar Drift Align" where you can use your guidescope. Best channel.
Thanks rod Ken!
The full hypertune process is described in the youtube videos titled "Celestron CGX Mount RA / Tracking Problem" by Dave Compton. He followed suggestions from the company that provides the Hypertune service that they recommend before sending the mount head to them for service.
I'm going to break out the classic now. YOU DESERVE MORE SUBS!!
Haha thanks! To be honest I'm surprised I have this many.
@@DylanODonnell Dude, never say that when there's folks getting millions of subs for playing with kittens. You put real thought, skill and humour into your videos. You're right up there with Astrobiscuit.
I agree. Just don't change what you're doing or how you present it. Too many people change their content to attract more subscribers. I love you just the way you are. Hey, that sounds like a good song title!
A little trick about the stars - do shorter exposures just for the stars and then replace them in the original image. Some might consider it cheating, I say that's just HDR :) Great video as usual. You always have the perfect mix of humor and astro stuff. And yes I have also tuned my CGX with those screws even though it is still under warranty (which I'm guessing at this point is no longer valid)
I won't tell Celestron if you won't!
Nice work explaining adjustments and what to watch as you make adjustments. ANOTHER BIG ITEM to look for on the Cgx mount. BELT TENSION. If it’s too tight, you WILL wear out the bronze bushings on the drive shaft in the drive motor . A lot of detailed information on cloudynights regarding this issue.
Thanks for your presentations. Always something learned. Take care
I have the same setup. I will 'carefully' investigate the RA and DEC gears. I would have liked to have seen a 5min or 6min exposure. You are correct about the f/10 greatly amplifying the tracking error ... you got to be spot on with the polar alignment and balance. Thanks for this very useful video Dylan.
Was working on my AVX mount, and Rod from celestron tech said hi! Love those guys at celestron. Thanks again Dylan for being awesome.
Perfect timing!! I just spent the night problem solving elongated stars with CGX. Most likely being flexure at the camera mounting point on guidescope. Good video Dylan.
I was *sure* it was flexure. When I finally got OAG working I knew finally it wasn’t.
Nice work Dylan. Half of the fun is tweaking these mounts. Then a quick shot of Jupiter so the wife doesn't think I am nuts.
Great results on your improved guiding. I don't have a CGX but an AVX benefitted greatly from tweaking the gear mesh.
I used a wattmeter on the power supply and got the gears as snug as I could without resulting in extra current draw. As soon as the current rose I knew they were too tight so backed it off a fraction Did similar with an AZ-EQ 6. Not a pro, just a tweaker but super happy with the results.
Thanks man .. was so overdue... this new scope really made it important heh
Great info Dylan, I have a Celestron CGE mount and at the time was Celestron's best mount, but boy was it built & heavy! Being a newer design it had to go back to Celestron for service common issues, stoped using then last year put on order a CGX mount but the next canceled just to heavy and did not trust that it would be a mount for 10 years and sorry Dylan this reminds me of the lower quality of Celestron. Got an IOption CEM60 way better than any Celestron mount and PEC blows almost all mounts but the AP mounts away. It can hold 60 LBS load (but like all mounts cut in half for Astrophotography) and weighs 27 lbs. Sorry Celestron super long time customer from the Powerstar scope, but not anymore...
The super lube portion was by far my favorite.
Can also say. Highpoint is amazing. Called them as a total noob and they talked me through an issue. They have great support.
Great intro and even greater insights about what could cause these stars elongation. I'm lucky to have the manual that includes the care and maintenance sections you mentioned. Thanks again Dylan.HJ. Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Cheers eh!
I have to say, that I had an AVX, and thought that I was just terrible at doing astrophotography. Truth is I am. But the entry level AVX was also terrible at doing astrophotography. So I spent quite a bit of time following tutorials, trying to tweak and improve my mount. I learned just how bad the design is, and after 3d printing improvements and pulling my hair out, I bought a better mount, and now I'm really happy. Now I do have to tune and tweak things on occasion because I didn't spend a million dollars, but everything works so much better now. Mine has a spring loaded worm which can be more forgiving, but I do have to tune it on occasion. Luckily it's a Losmandy, so tweaking and tuning is pretty straight forward.
6:21 into the video, took the words right out of my mouth!
Nice job Dylan! I knew a smart guy like you could easily fix his mount. Stars look much better!
Thanks man!
"Did I get the stars round? I hope so... Otherwise, I'll be PISSED." Loved the ending, haha.
Love your videos and sense of humor, the world sure could use millions more like you! I tried to order from High Point Scientific but they refuse to ship to Guam, USA...I have spent a total of ~$10,000.00 USD since then through another company who does ship here.
Too add to what Dylan said WD-40 stands for “Water Displacement 40” only reason why it’s called 40 is because it’s the 40th formulation.
Great for keeping bike chains from rusting up, but it’s not a lubricant.
Fun fact it was originally a product sprayed on the atlas rocket to control ice buildup due to the oxygen tank being cold.
One more thing I love to super lube my mount. lol!
Great video Dylan. Now i know how to Hypepertune my CGX in the future if i need one. I hade done it to my AVX and worked like a charm. My AVX fast faulty but with loos gear, and i got it down to about 1 arc second at best. Now i use it for planets, sun and comets. You cant have enoght of mounts acording to Chuck *LOL*
I need a video like this for my CGEM II 😪
I just did mine. I think you may find that the best way is to take out any "Play". When you hold the end of the counter balance rod, you may find a slight clunk, clunk around RA. Adjust until it's gone. Do the same for Dec. It's better than trial and error.
Good tip!
I have the CGX-L and have likewise tinkered with the Dec and RA gear meshing. I was forced to after my mount developed the well-known and dreaded 'honking' phenomena when slewing. I eliminated the honking and I've improved things a little in terms of tracking, but I think there's a limit to what these mounts are capable of. Having said that, I think it would be great to see more vids of people 'tuning' their CGX/L mounts.
Yes I suspect I will be tuning some more !
Respect! Hypertune seemed to involve 'ceramic' bearings and a lot of other hocus-pocus to achieve many hundreds of $ prices. I took my (very old, pre-loved) Celestrom CGEM mount to bits. Cleaned and lubed the sh*t outta it. Adjusted the 'pinch' on the worm gear then balanced (as best one can with a Newt) and all was a lot better. Who Dares Wins but I wouldn't advise on a new/in warranty mount! Caveat Emptor.
Agreed. The whole ceramic bearing thing is unqualified nonsense snake oil.
I see your update, usually at around 2am UK time - this times' different - 2pm-ish BST! You're up late ;P. Oh that subtle chuckle at "SuperLube" - lol.
I would max out my Visa to fly to the farthest country, in the darkest corner of the 'round' world and slide down to the deepest hole I can find before I attempt anything like this on my AVX! Keep going bro, another milestone!
Haha yeh this video took so long to edit I've turned my upload schedule on it's head :) Props for noticing!
Thank you for featuring my music in your video :)
KaizanBlu the pleasure was all mine! Love your work. On high rotation here :)
Thanks Dylan for doing the video that CELESTRON should have done 3 years ago. ;-)
Hey Dylan great video! I hyper tuned my CGEM a while back. I definitely don't recommend it to somebody who isn't mechanically inclined. Celestron does not want you to disassemble their mounts (lots of loctite on screws and nuts). All turned out well just the same. If memory serves me correctly it involved ceramic bearing replacement on worm gears shaft, lots of polishing of the ring gear bushing and teflon spacer installation. One of my complaints about Celestron is the lack of information on how to maintain and service the mounts and the inability to purchase replacement parts. You may get a lot of requests to share that manual with the outdated tuning section....it does not surprise me Celestron took that part out......
Yep! The whole page is in the video.. that's all it was.. and it didn't really describe the process I came up with here, just a few lines about those screws!
Thanks for another great video Dylan. I've had same challenge with my 9.25 EHD w/CGX setup. It was frustrating but finally root caused it to the back focus not being correct. Never tried opening up or tuning the CGX. Cheers
That's pretty good results for a bit of fiddling. And no, I did not have the magic manual that explains this procedure,so I went PTMD. Still, no regrets, the ASA runs at 0.3" RMS.
Thanks for making a video about it, I'll try it out on the cgx myself.
Nice work! Yeh I figured a bunch of CGX owners would find this interesting.
0:03 Uh-oh. Don't tell me that's a bald spot.
NO
@@DylanODonnell I think I see a Trump.... follicly challenged myself embrace it buddy it comes calling
There used to be a guy in Melbourne who could retune your mount but he either lost interest or moved onto other things, He used to run Bintel in Camberwell here in Melbourne before they shut up shop and just have the Sydney store, a real bummer.
5:08 now THAT sounded like gagging on to something...great video m8.
my problem is the opposite using Orion atlas mount. My RA sits at ~0.9RMS or less while DEC is always above 1.5RMS even if guiding in once direction only or turned off. Should have invested in 10Micron or Paramount :)
Great video as always Dylan! I have been thinking about hypertuning my avx and I am now going to look into that. You and trevor really have informative and enjoyable videos keep up the good work!
Hey thanks Amazing Oliver :)
There are no service of celestron in India. I had issue with my nexstar 4se but the only solution is to exchange. I bought through b&h and I had to pay for return shipment so I decided to fix scope myself. Lucky issue was only with flip mirror and I able to fix it. Right now it might have issue in tracking but as it's alt az mount can't be sure whether it's desine issue or actual tracking.
I have to admit that I like your style.
"and $495 US in Australian, that's about... a million bucks" hahahaha!
I have done extensive investigation into and tuning to my CGX and concluded it can only track with an accuracy of around 1 arcsec RMS. Out of the factory adjustment and worm shaft bearing preload leaves a lot to be desired and the bronze clutch drums rubbed on the main housings making balancing a challenge. My worms were so tight axially the worm was dragging in the bearings and the bearing fit on the worm shaft was as they say "like a cock in a sock" I measured 0.02mm undersized.
The main limitation is not so much gear backlash (what Dylan is addressing here) as the location of the motor encoder being on the end of the motor shaft. I suspect Celestron chose this location because they can use a lower resolution encoder. It really should be a high resolution unit on the output of the motor/gearbox, this is why. The CGX motors have a gear reduction box on the output. The backlash in this box is really quite poor to the point where my mount always fails Dec backlash compensation from PHD2. This is because the backlash is so great and PHD2 limits the amount of correction to what they consider practical, the mount thus is in a constant oscillation as PHD2 struggles to keep up. In conclusion I would not recommend this mount for scope of greater than 800mm FL. Oh and finally I feel better qualified than most on this subject as I have a mechanical engineering background rather than the unqualified opinions commonly seen on the net.
Incidentally Celestron may have removed the adjustment procedure from the CGX manual but it is still present in the CGC-L mount manual. Since the mechanical arrangement is identical between the two mounts you can use the published -L manual for the standard CGX.
So in other words don't buy a cgxl? Save up for a planewave?!? haha What mount is the best? Should an aussie company build a better one?
Trolled you for a bit but just subbed. Learning a lot from you, amongst others, please keep doing you, lovvviiieeeeee. Oh please tell Bintel to update their calculator to reflect the ZWO ASI2600MC DUUUO. I want that, along with the Hyperstar v4.
I was about to do the exact same thing, but Rod at Celestron emailed me and told me that it would void my warranty...like I got the email as I was walking outside to take off the motor/gear covers. So now Celestron has it and is sorting it out. I got so frustrated with it that I bought a Paramount MX+. Now I'm buried in manuals trying to learn TheSkyX.
that's just silly. That's like a car manufacturer saying you can't change the tyres cos it'll invalidate the warranty. Celestron has to PROVE that what you've done has contributed to the damage to said mount. It's not up to you to disprove it.
did they fix the mount?
If I'm ever forced to hang out with a human, I'd choose you, Dylan.
You’re right - my 2018 CGX manual only has “Storage” on its “Care and Maintenance” page.
very nice dylan, congrats on the hypertune. iv'e seen your hypertuned star profile and it looks good, a very random patern instead of trailing but also on track, which kinda shows that you are pass the mounts tuneable limitation ie "hypertuned "and now more relying on seeing and pulse correction settings .
i know something else you could try, setting the worm float if you already haven't , i use a dail indicator that i use for my lathe and i set my worm float to 50 microns play , pretty tight tolerance , i even swaped for better bearings for the worm , most mount manufactures use roller bearings ie the ones simular in skateboards or roller blades , idealy conical bearings would be better for the worm drive to compensate against the load in the horizontal axis .
I even go as far with my tune to rotate the bad spot of the ra worm wheel disc into a spot that dosn't get used and then permantly lock the clutch and tune the mount on the good areas of the worm wheel . some people lap their worm wheels with grit for hours to get the small error of imperfections out .
every astronomer enthusiast should learn to tune thier mount , there's a hit or miss in mechanical pression with mass manufacturing especialy on the worm wheel in tracking mounts and the adjustments before it gets sent out , ( i assume most manufacturers give thier mounts a little play for the temperature difference in different regions)
btw check your tune again in summer incase it's too tight to avoid binding and dammage , the temperature will change your tune in the seasons .
I've never heard the term worm float before but it sounds like you're setting the backlash, especially since you mentioned thermal changes and that you used a dial indicator.
Thank Christ, I need this for my CGX.
Nice!
Just got my HEQ5 tuned. Like a charme
I enjoyed this video almost as much as you love that chair!
Thanks Dylan! I've needed this for a while!
Good to hear !
Great Video Dylan. It nice to have a good one on this topic finally.
best chair in the world while wearing a scientific jacket, um cant argue with that 👍 Thanks Dylan, cool vid
Cheers Frack mate :)
superlube is easily available in Australia, from a local supplier at reasonable prices.
Care to name names ?
@@RobB_VK6ES Sure: www.mektronics.com.au/brands/super-lube/super-lube-grease-3oz-tube.html
Another Great video Dylan, LOL at the "Adapter 9 USD, Shipping 69 USD" haha as a Chilean (end of the World) its usually like that, Saludos southern hemisphere mate!!
Hola!
@@DylanODonnell Hola!!
Dylan, doesn't platesolving allow for significantly more precision (and ease of use) over star alignment? You mentioned doing star alignment twice - when platesolving, you can have an iterative process until you are under an error which you define
I do both :)
These mounts are quite simple in mechanic point of view, if somebody has some "mech" experience. It is quite simplet to take care, or "hypertune" but the kez you must know what you do. I already hypertuned lot of time my first EQ5 mount. But i can say the EQ5 mechanical quality is....... Then I bought an HEQ5 used and my first part was disassemble and cleaned and regreased with super lube. I can say, the HEQ5 way better than EQ5 for mech point of view. But i still not confident with the bearings. These bearins doing the job, quite ok, but i will change these sometimes in the future...
But every "mech" needs some "take care" does not matter that is CGX, HEQ5, EQ6 or 10 micron...
Hey Dylan, Great job as always, I always get a great laugh and learn shit at the same time :-) well done
Thanks :)
A big fan of the random “jiggery pokery” reference. It was worth the watch just for that. 🤓
10 years of university paying off there!
I think you need to ramp things up to the next level. While the lab coat definitely makes you look smarter, a bow tie would practically make you a genius.
I think a hat with a little propeller on the top would be gold.
Hehe would really complete the look
Dylan... love your hands-on showing how you actually do things as opposed to other who just talk and wave their arms... that is KUDOS... anyway... hopefully you can weigh in... as I have the C11 Edge and CGX-L - and picked up a lot of great info from you!!!! so the question is... are you happy with the CGX-L that is good enough to image at native 2,800mm focal length (f/10)? many of my friends in the astronomy club with similar gear only image using the reducer at f/7 FL 1,960mm because it's just too challenging to image at 2,800 - what say you... and really what a pleasure to check out your videos!!!
Thanks! The CGX wouldn't do it but the CGX-L certainly will :)
Great video Dylan, I enjoy watching detailed videos like this. I have a very old Sirius and an Atlas Pro mount neither of which I have done any maintenance on. I have been scared to touch any type of fine astro equipment however, after watching this I feel confident in trying to adjust the mounts should they need it. - Cheers
Glad you enjoyed it !
Excellent!
Good job 👍
I am getting into Astrophotography with a star adventurer mount, a 60D dslr and a 70-600mm f4 lens.
Welcome to the gang
@@DylanODonnell The roller coaster ride for my wallet called Astrophotography has just begun. 🙃
link to the pdf with instruction would be greatly appreciated, for my used AVX I'm planning to acquire!
Dylan Fantastic Video Bro, Luv it, Make's me more comfortable in Purchasing a Plane Wave L-350 Mount for my 16" Meade OTA. & Thank You Very Much for being accessible to your Base! Much Respect to you.
The same issue crops up on lots of CGX mounts, look up on cloudynights that many use a thin shim to rectify it..don't think a hypertune is adjusting a screw, far more to it than that...and superlube is the way to go.. thank me later
Yeh they may be some belt replacement coming too :) as much as I can do without actually taking it apart !
My CGEM Mount had a stiff DEC Axis. I was not able balanced it good enough for good guiding.
Yeh I feel like the CGX was the first decent Celestron mount at that price point
That's caused from insufficient clearance between the ring gear and the housing.
I hypertuned my old CGEM and the process requires sanding down the ring gear to the point where it will move freely in it's housing.
Hey @dylan have you ever toyed around with playing back the error correction from PHD Logs ? Perhaps you could work that final bit of predictable PE with that feature ?
Had the Exact Same Issue. Even at F7 it’s unforgiving and having some “egg” stars
There is hope !
Excellent video! P.S please don't advertise High Point Scientific as every time I try ordering new gear lately it's sold out or on back order. Lol Great company with a very helpful staff.
Nice tune from KaizanBlu brother to round out this vid ....feel for ya and my other brothers in Aussie. It's a real shit about you going back into lockdown not sure if that effects your Fam living the dream in NZ ,
I see the clear difference, but theres no way I'm opening the eq6r pro😛 Good to know there are 3rd parties for this, if the time comes. For now with the z61 ive been able to get 5 minutes without guiding and stars that look like your before photo..which isnt horrible (at my short focal length) ;) guiding is now set up and awaiting my week off during the perseids peak 📷🔭🌌👍
And showing people I know that I can control s*it like this with a computer, eqmod/ascom shout out, they think you're some kind of witch haha
Hi Dylan, this video was not meaningless! Question: how long was your time lapse on phd2 and how dit you record it? With the camera on your phone maybe? CS from Holland
Heh thanks! Just screen recording :)
Fantastic video - really enjoyed it. I was just wondering if you’d also tried the new(ish) PPEC guiding algorithm in PHD as an alternative to the normal hysteresis?
Not yet, I really should
Great video again, Dylan. Do you think a pier rather than a tripod, isolated from your observatory floor, would help?
I'm not sure it would make any difference to anything except the space in my dome :)
I have the same exact problem with my old CGEM and even with my brand new cgem II :-(
Time to slap some JDM aftermartket parts on my mount.
Those Herman Miller chairs are the bomb... sadly I broke mine and its like 250 for the part I need!
How good are they!
@@DylanODonnell well I got mine second hand and it was already about 20 years old. But I didn't feel too bad as I only paid about 30 bucks for it haha
Dylan...the tracking on my CGX went to shit...it was the bushings in the motor gearboxes. I replaced the bushings with bearings, and the tracking was better than when the mount was new.
Pretty sure that’s what’s going on !
g`day dylan great video mate ... you get a lot of condensation in that dome do you think you might have a slight corrosion (notchiness/grinding) in the bearings the main and the motor roller bearings that is giving you the shake from stickion or slight binding i am surprised you don't have wiring problems with all the moisture on the electrical contacts .. have you ever thought about getting a industrial fan( small barrel type) or a carpet dryer to get some air into the dome to keep it dryer inside or maybe a whirligig roof ventilation might help i don't think the damprid is cutting it anymore and i would hate to hear that the edge 11 got mold inside or other gear crapping out well looks like your getting things a lot better with adjustments (just think of it as learning to do culmination again lol) 0.9 is better than 1.5 rms tot ... you should of tried a repco or a auto supply shop for the lube i think that super lube is around i have seen it before in oz oh well good luck with the adjustments hope you get the problem sussed out and the CGX comes good and you get back to nice round stars again.. looking forward to your next video. please keep us updated with your progress with the mount i am very interested in you final outcome and annalise's ....... some nice upgraded ceramic bearings would be a nice investment in the CGX i would glide like a ice skater lol (in my best homer simpson voice) mmmmmm round stars lol
cheers
james D
Yeh I keep meaning to get a better solution but I also keep spending my money on stupid stuff.
@@DylanODonnell stupid stuff is great until the wife hears about it .. that's usually when you find out your great new toy is stupid stuff lol ....... enjoy while you can
I just love your content dude! I had to go through this process as well but I wasn't aware of the whole hypertune thing. Bit frustrating doing it in the dark. Ended up losing 2 of those tiny cover crews in the event horizon. I wonder if Bintel offers the hypertune service as well.
Btw I got a hyperstar for my C11 recently & I'm pretty sure I have the collimation bang on. I noticed that some of the stars are elongated slightly in one corner. Just realised that I hadn't checked to see if the corrector plate itself was centered before setting it all up. Just wondering if this could possibly one of the factors for you as well.
Hey thanks man! The flaring is coma from the reducer and possibly my back focal distance / arrangement .. the collimation is ok I promise :)
But I don’t have a CGX mount. I have a Losmandy Titan 50 mount for my C14 EdgeHD.
Congrats on the chair
Thanks, I love it :)
I wonder if the shape of your guide star is giving you some of your issue. They are pretty egg shaped so PHD2 could be struggling to calculate the centroid properly.
also, I'm not familiar with celestron mounts at all, but is there anywhere you can get to the worm gear and turn it manually by hand? This is the best way to check for binding because you should be able to feel it has your rotate the gear around the shaft. One of the guys here in Brisbane came up with a great idea for his EQ6 where he gets a bit of relatively strong rubber tubing that fits snugly over the spindle end of the worm gear uses that to rotate the mount, as soon as there is any binding it will cause the tube to just slip and spin freely. you can then adjust the distance at that exact spot where it binds and continue on for the full 360 degrees to keep checking
Yeh the guide star shape seems to be a feature of the OAG prism . it does't help so I try to choose very small stars. I don't think I have a bind issue but I do think the backlash is higher than it should be because of the ageing belts. I'm going to try get nicer new ones I've heard improve the CGX.. and that sounds easy enough for someone like me even :)
@@DylanODonnell New belts definitely won't hurt. Shouldn't be hard to replace, the tricky bit will be getting the correct tension on them though. More trial and error fun
Do any of the CGX users out there also run PEC? I haven’t graduated to an advanced level. Btw, I sent my CGX out for hypertune (drove up to Phoenix bc I live in Tucson) and the mount came back with lots of error and the home limit switch off even though multiple polar alignments showed I was within 15” alignment
Coool Vlog Man
When checking the guiding after each adjustment, should I recalibrate, or can I just stop the guiding, do the adjustment and then start it again?
No need to recal for minor adjustments but def do it again when you are finished and check again.
Well done!
Thanks Sergio!
“If possible, get a food-grade grease and that way you can eat food off your CGX” lmao
VERY useful... now if you can make another video on how to built-up the courage to actually do it yourself that would be great :-)
Hey mate, I have a lot less experience than you and you probably already do that so almost feel bad but have you tried using sharpcap before your polar alignment? I have a Meade LX85 (much lower level than yours) and I get tot 0.2
Also thanks for the hypertuning video that was amazing and informative
Hi Dylan,
Would tinkering like this void your warranty as I am having an issue with my CGX where the RA axis seems to be binding and jerking when I attempt to align and press the hand controller arrow buttons for the RA axis.
I have a later CGX and there is no mention of the spacing or tension adjustment screws in the manual.
Yes it would void your warranty but the behaviour you mention at also be bad balance with the counterweights OR try resetting/upgrading the firmware on the hand controller. If that fails .. contact Celestron or your vendor for support .
Him: Got a new chair. It's the BEST chair in the world!
Pewdiepie: Lemme stop you there
Pfff only $399
Dylan O'Donnell Btw i wanted to ask you which telescope you would recommend to buy ( I currently have a 6 inch dobsonian) for astrophotography (ps. I cant believe that you responded to my comment!)
i prefer cem 60 or above
Gear Porn, White Jacket, oversized shadow hands in the obsy, SUPER LUBE 😋😋😋!!!!!! I cannot take it anymore 🤪🤗🤪 Too much indulgence in one RUclips video 🙏🤣😂🤣😂 You killin me 👌
Hey!!! WTF is that focuser???? Spill it!!
SUPER LUBE