Tekken's design can feel strange and confusing compared to other 3D fighting games. For example, in games like Virtua Fighter or Soul Calibur, and even in real life, if you sidestep the first hit of a combo, you can usually punish your opponent right away. But in Tekken, sidestepping isn’t enough-you often have to keep walking around your opponent in circles until they finish their combo, which feels awkward. Another issue is how tracking works. In most 3D fighters, moves that go straight forward can usually be sidestepped in either direction, while circular moves can’t be sidestepped. But in Tekken, even straight moves sometimes require you to sidestep in a specific direction, which doesn’t make much sense. These mechanics make Tekken’s 3D movement feel less natural and harder to understand than other games in the genre.
Yeah, before T8 release i REALLY hoped for good sidesteps so you can sidestep the opponent like in games before T7, but they really dropped the ball with tracking...
That's why I stressed that Tekkens sidestepping should work alot more like Virtua Fighter, because there are way too many needless amounts of criteria and requirements you need to successfully evade certain moves via sidestepping
I 900% agree with you. The opponent made a mistake and I am now behind him ready to punish.... Just to get punished myself because I'm reacting "too quickly" to the situation in a very fast paced game? Also what if the opponent decides to not finish the string and I try to wait him out and punish like TMM showcases in this video?.. He will have time to recover and my punish will get blocked and in worst case scenario get me launched. That's dumb in my opinion. Also the behavior doesent look good or intended.
I’m glad you explained this because I witnessed this a bunch literally last night as I’ve been slowing down and practicing defense. It’s was the first time I witnessed exactly this.
11:24 if I am not mistaken you can cancel sidesteps with simply pressing back to block and because of it you can also loop quarter circles to do fast looping sidesteps. The input is u, ub, b, n, repeat for background stepping and d, db, b, n, repeat for foreground stepping. It doesn't have much use as far as I know, but it may help you beat people who delay buttons to catch steps, they can still catch you with the right timing though...
The problem with sidestepping in tekken (it was worse in T7) is imo that the CAMERA over compensates for both players on screen While Tekken is.a 3D game notice the POV of both players is always on a 2D Plane. Too many moves in T7 and T8 that are clearly LINEAR should NOT hit…the tracking of moves needs to either be reduced so sidestepping can be consistent or NAMCO needs to add like a tracking meter for practice mode of some sort just my opinion
it's strange devs don't even trying to fix sidewalk problem at all. they had a lot of time between t7 and t8. i mean like kazuya example with hellsweep.
If only being a victum of frame disadvantage didnt inhibit you from being able to evade certain moves via sidestepping, then sidestepping would be 10 times better. You already have rapid realignment from intense neutral movement do all the heavy lifting when it comes to moves connecting no matter how linear or how bad the tracking it is
the only thing about this i think we all should agree on is when you sidewalk a long string and all of a sudden the camera does a 180 turn... everything else has a reason for working the way they do, but the camera going crazy is just wrong
tmm thank you so much for making videos like these. Everything is explained so well. each time you upload one of these fundamentals videos it is pretty much the best resource on the topic
This was a pretty good video, and informs players who aren't aware of the extending hitbox/hurtbox in tekken BUT his saying like "this is how pros sidewalk" is kinda wrong, because the way he's doing it, he's just doing a FULL commitment sidewalk, against hellsweep no less, which is unseeable. So just doing a full sidewalk like that is just nothing more than a Hard Read, which has it's place, but given how so many stupid moves track and still clip you in T8 with ridiculously large hitboxes, you see pros doing way more SS guard, SS duck, Sidewalk Guard, Sidewalk Duck etc. The way TMM is showing is just a hard read aka, casino which pros don't rely on heavily, they prefer to be more safe with things like SS guard and Sidewalk guard if possible.
@@clavicusvile1328 No but characters could end up with their backs toward you and their strings can hit you, try TAS to test it out this is a thing that has existed for YEARS Edit: (Bro respond)
Great video breaking down the fundamentals. I’ve always liked Tekken but I didn’t actually start trying to get good until the tail end of Tekken 7 and this game. So this and the how to beat character videos are very useful.
The heihachi downplay is crazy. All this does is create a mix up for being able to punish the beck turn because if he adds one more or one less sweep then the timing to move in and launch changes. This is absolutely ridiculous, and people defending it are coping so hard
A few months ago I saw a video (prob from Mr. Swe, here) where sidestepping being bufferable was mentioned and the slick sidestep electrics I've been hitting with Kaz recently have been boner-inducing. I just wish Tekken's sidestepping worked intuitively, like Soul Calibur's re: direction.
Yes this is right .in sf moving and stepping are 2 different things and in Tekken stepping and walking are 2 different things learn both or you are your not good. Mk has teleports so stand blocking and shuffling are 2 different things
@@brobocops Why would I need to go back like 4 games to experience decent stepping? Stop living in the past old man. You can step without side walking everything. Maybe you've just got a skill issue.
Oki game is all 50/50s. You might need to start getting in the habit of tapping up instead of back so you don't get launch punished. Know your character's floor game though. Even Tekken God's will eat 3 f 1+2s with Nina in a row because they keep trying to tap up instead of rolling.
@TheR1zzard0f0z I'm used to holding back as a safe getup from T7, but I've seen Lilis be flat on their back go straight into a matterhorn in like 8 frames lol
@@skyefox oh sorry I misread. Deleted comment… But even still matterhorn is 17 frame startup and -21 so its an easy launch for you. But overall yea, tapping up = less frames to getup
One thing that t8 definitely surpasses t7 is loading times. Also player count, so if you going to play ranked or quick matches t8 is on top. In my opinion t7 have much more character identity while in t8 everybody kinda have to do rushdown 50/50. I main Dragunov and i much prefer him in t7(although he is amongst weakest characters there) just because how it feels to play him compared to other characters. T8 much more fast paced compared to t7, and sometimes on of the players doesn't get to play the game because of overwhelming pressure and 1-2 mistakes(that can happen in t7,but not as frequently). That kind of a personal preference and i'd say if you like t7 pacing you might not like t8 as much. If you have a friend/friends to play t7 with you you, that may be a point in its favor, cause it helps with waiting times and connection(assuming you and your friends have good connection). Both games have balance issues but in t7 they mostly concentrated around dlc characters while t8 base roster filled with allot of busted stuff. I kind of lost my trail of thoughts while writing this, so i'm gonna stop here. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
I'd recommend it. Its not as passive as T7 and has a lot of tools encouraging action (white health bar thats basically Bloodborne's rally system for comebacks, forced 50/50s after heat engager etc) but despite all the doom and gloom by some, its genuinely a great game and outside of a few oppressive outliers, is very well balanced. Characters have more personality and charm, they've updated most characters movesets (Bryan not so much allegedly, idk i don't play him) and, as controversial as its been, defense requires a lot more skill now since backdashing isn't as prevalent and the aggression reduces panic button viability. Theres definitely a learning curve in the transition from T7 to T8 but its enjoyable once it clicks - before then though, you might find yourself proclaiming everything and everyone is broken and that T8 isn't real Tekken etc etc. Seems to the common reaction.
absolutely go with 8. Tekken 7 is trash compared to it. People complaining or the rejects saying "nooo tekken 8 is spam and mindless aggression!!!!!" have no idea how to play the game, red ranks at their peak (if they even have the game lol). Great skill issue. Tekken 8 is incredibly fun and skill rewarding, plus amazing everything else a game should have.
@clipCommander101 congrats you looked at my channel lol. What's my comment gotta do with drag? You can SSR all of drag's options besides b3 and d2. b43 doesn't track anymore (as it never should have)
@@ZiyaB3ast Every morning when i wake up, i yell MASKU and wavedash furiously to my living room to play tekken 8. This conversation ended before it even began. To quote the famous words of kazuya Mishima, "hanashini narana".
(A rehash of a reply i made below) I dont really mind single moves with slight tracking properties, like EWGF and Hei. B4 tracking SW/SSR. But ENTIRE STRINGS? Ppl SHOULD HAVE to earn the right to use their strings by forcing their opponents to stand still via good pressure and homing moves. Its just how Tekken fundamentally works-this nee tracking on strings like this seems like an oversight, an overtunement of an idea for what constitutes as good offense in a game where there are moves that make you +17 oH or oB (Insane, no?). It's a little jarring to have stepped your opponents offense only to react and swing only for their move to INSTANTLY REALIGN and smack you upside the head, no?😂 Tl:Dr-Overtuned strings that track w/ impunity does not feel good for PvP interactions. Its like they only want you to guess, Mid or Low. Casino Tekken, in a nutshell.
Aaaaand you are one of the "VF better Tekken bad" people, let's just ignore that Tekken before T7 had great movement that was a reliable option. Devs just wanted to have VF aggressiveness in a completely eifferent game, twice in a row, and they fumbled the bag twice in a row.
@@Teo-uw7mhI think you're pretty delusional if you think VF will gather enough players to even remotely compete with Tekken. VF has been around for ages, and it has ALWAYS been a super niche game with just a small core player base. I'm not saying it's a bad game (cuz it's not), but I'm just saying it has never been really popular, and I highly doubt that will change anytime soon.
what timing i just had this happen to me with a king who did a string and I rushed it since it was my first every successful side step I was like what the fuckkk
Hi TMM, great video as alwys. Can You make second video, where You will be explain to us in which side should we sidestep or sidewalk each charackter in Tekken 8 ? I will be greatful :).
@GriKoLPriKoL420 Give TMM free to speech ;). Btw I think I know something, I am tekken God at the moment, but it doesn't mean I don't see my weaknesses, especally my sidesteps and sidewalks. I assume I am not the only one with this lack :).
Sidestepping works just fine in SC, and it is much more obvious to tell what moves you can step. The most complained about mechanic in 6 is rendered completely irrelevant by sidestepping.
Tekken 7 tracking is worse,when character do a moves it's like they have a fire magic ring projectile around their body,which is why people always backdashing in that game
@@9052j tekken 7 is ass too, I would prefer playing old broken enjoyable tekken like tag 1 and 5 which are intuitive without dumb janky hit boxes and ridiculous tracking.
Interesting point there about the game being more fun in a sense that it's become more strategically difficult than mechanically difficult. Honestly, the older players who invested countless hours into perfecting their execution (myself included) won't like this too much, if at all, but I think that this is the direction which all fighting games must take in order to make the game more sustainable. Think of fortnite and how unrewarding it is to play the game when you constantly run across these sweaty players who can built a fortress in 2 seconds. When they introduced no build mode, suddenly so many people started picking up the game. That's because having a good strategy became much more important than relying on purely mechanics. I can see this happening in the fgc. I believe that the devs of 2XKO are aware of this, which is why they're simplifying the inputs in exchange for incentivising strategy and synergy with your partner
Im a new player that started 1 year ago, and why we just can't have both? We always had both, but now we only can have 1? I couldn't do fuckin quarter circle inputs and dps but it took only 1 month to be able to shit out em. Most people that do not play fighting games because "muah execution, muah motion inputs" should not play any game that requires learning and improving a mechanical skill if they are so scared.
@@alondjeckto Your point about adding a barrier of entry for those who don't wanna grind their execution will only alienate those who want to try out the game. That's gonna be fine for us long-term players, but you can't forget that we need new players to enjoy the game for its long term health. Think of it as a necessary evil. We always had both, but the legacy players got so much better with their execution over the years. The execution of the top players in tekken 3 wasn't as polished as the execution of the players you see in Tekken King and up these days. If above average players right now are that good (which they are), imagine how uninviting getting into the game would be for new players. Like it or not, we need new players to ensure that the game's long-term health remains stable. Also it's not like the game's completely getting rid of rewarding execution. It's just piping that aspect of the game down a bit. I'll only be concerned about the execution barrier dropping down too low when electrics become oversimplified (ie no longer a just frame or something of that nature).
Tekken as a whole - but especially Tekken 8 - has a problem with visual clarity. A lot of stuff in the game looks like it should be steppable, but isn't. And of the stuff that is, you're clipped half the time, if you try to punish too early.
I completely gave up on sidestepping or sidewalking in Tekken. I'm a noob and it's too hard/unreliable. Sherlock Holmes prediction into The Flash timing into Bruce Banner knowledge-check. Ok game. No problem.
the job u did here is great however the game should NOT be like this, if u ate a side step ur movement shouldnt be able to keep tracking when ur opponent is behind u
You turned the pb the other way around, the pb is coming from hitbox and range extension badly developed. It should not be the player to wait until the end of the animation to launch if you are facing the back of the opponent... It's BECAUSE the game has this problem that we must wait for the end of the animation to not be fucked by a buggy hitbox. But what's still true however, is that being patient is always worth doing, better to wait and be sure to launch safely is a good advice anyway.
You guys keep saying that string realignments are an unbalanced tekken 8 issue, the reality is even in tekken 1 this existed “But there were no sidesteps in tekken 1” I know that but there were ways to get a character to have their back facing towards you and if they did a string and you timed a jab at the wrong time you could even get launched, this thing has existed for years but the issues with tekken 8 have made you bitter (which is understandable I mean most of us don’t enjoy this game) So you have only now called out an issue that has been in the game for 30 years a balancing issue and too much tracking in the game, reality is that it is broken, annoying and unfair but it is not tracking, when they have their backs towards you their hitbox largens when you attack (Also stop shitting on mainman, he litteraly outright admitted “it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense” directly from him, he knows it’s weird and unfair but he is trying to help you stop attacking him, I actually benefited from this video)
Nerfing the tracking would essentially nuke the skill floor. Anybody could just sidewalk the whole game which would be marginally better than all the backdashing of 7. Currently, there's actually skill expression in movement. You can tell the difference between a good player, a great player, and a noob. You want to remove that, yet complain this is the easiest, most braindead tekken has ever been, instead of just getting better. As demonstrated in this video, you CAN avoid shit if you know what you're doing. Stop saying it doesn't work, and just learn how to use it properly.
I would agree unfortunately even sidewalking can be inconsistent. The visual is something to be ignored unless identifying the start of an animation. Because Range and Timing play also play a role. I spend almost everyday labbing every character and even with good timing, range can make specific parts of strings clip you. Sometimes you will have good range but because of timing, you get clipped, at other times it's due to the engine bugging out like during Slow-mo, Rage art or unusual "On hit."/"On block" bugs that force realignment like in heatsmashes suddenly having full tracking. Even if you know the move exactly you cannot trust the game to be consistent. It is worse when further away because you'd assume a linear looking move would miss sidewalking at range 2 in a 70° angle. But find out that kissing your opponent and stepping 30° is more consistent. Properties change depending on whether you are closer or further, nullifying weeks of practice. True, stepping is what can separate a strong player and an unlearned player. But niche moments of tracking ruin it all.
@@Kenkyou_Nogata Of course there's inconsistency. Expecting perfection is foolish. As long as the moments are niche, I find that an acceptable metric. Labbing every character and coming to the conclusion that the system is busted is so anti gamer to me. Of course it is, now how do you exploit it to your benefit? That's what "Tech" is.
@torysteller4475 Consistency ≠ Perfection. Consistency = Retaining properties as often as possible. Perfection = Flawless retention of properties. Labbing every character is not Anti-gamer it is a sign of a gamer who loves his game enought to explore everything it has to offer completely. Also a lack of consistency shows that something is not ready competitively. I would take about ~70% consistency like how 2D games do where if something is broken it is consistently broken or vice versa, if my numbers serve me right Tekken is now ~40% consistent doing the same thing several times gives different results (Within a certain parameter) hence why sidewall combos will either drop immediately, after 1 second of splatter or sometimes function normally but never consistently. I say "Niche" in the sense that it's several different things that cause this "breaking/bugging" of an engine that can't be seen or usually never the same. It's either Range, Hit/Hurtbox irregularities, slow-mo, relationships between physics, glitches (Like Reina switching sides when hit on the side or walls), "on hit/block" properties messing with calculations. However sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Pick a side. Consistently broken is fine. Consistently working is fine. Not "Sometimes" broken, "Sometimes" working.
@@Kenkyou_Nogata Never said perfection and consistency were equivalent, just that inconsistency is derived from imperfection. Also labbing isn't anti gamer, the conclusion you're drawing is. Only losing 30% consistency when your interaction points are basically cubed seems totally acceptable to me. Sure, it can be improved, but to suggest the game isn't competitively viable because some interactions are unpredictable (yet not unfair) is silly to me, especially when the same players seem to be winning consistently. Which would suggest the relationship between all the variables you listed, though interesting for sure, are negliable during the actual game in comparison to skill. By all means though, continue to catalogue all the data you find. I'd be interested in looking it over someday.
"If I jerk it too fast" that's always my problem... in tekken
Yeah, I'm always having to stop myself when I'm getting too eager. The last thing I want is keep getting these self-inflicted wounds...in Tekken
Tekken's design can feel strange and confusing compared to other 3D fighting games. For example, in games like Virtua Fighter or Soul Calibur, and even in real life, if you sidestep the first hit of a combo, you can usually punish your opponent right away. But in Tekken, sidestepping isn’t enough-you often have to keep walking around your opponent in circles until they finish their combo, which feels awkward.
Another issue is how tracking works. In most 3D fighters, moves that go straight forward can usually be sidestepped in either direction, while circular moves can’t be sidestepped. But in Tekken, even straight moves sometimes require you to sidestep in a specific direction, which doesn’t make much sense. These mechanics make Tekken’s 3D movement feel less natural and harder to understand than other games in the genre.
how sidestepping works: it doesn’t
So basically its tekken 7 sidestepping but this time sidesteps are buffed but the moves track more. So it's Tekken 7 sidestepping after all
It cancels out lmao
@@ShadowOfMassDestruction I was just about to say this lol
Yeah, before T8 release i REALLY hoped for good sidesteps so you can sidestep the opponent like in games before T7, but they really dropped the ball with tracking...
So you didnt play tekken 7
That's why I stressed that Tekkens sidestepping should work alot more like Virtua Fighter, because there are way too many needless amounts of criteria and requirements you need to successfully evade certain moves via sidestepping
I’m under the opinion that if you sidestep the first part of a string, the rest of the string should not track you
I 900% agree with you. The opponent made a mistake and I am now behind him ready to punish.... Just to get punished myself because I'm reacting "too quickly" to the situation in a very fast paced game?
Also what if the opponent decides to not finish the string and I try to wait him out and punish like TMM showcases in this video?.. He will have time to recover and my punish will get blocked and in worst case scenario get me launched.
That's dumb in my opinion. Also the behavior doesent look good or intended.
Do you expect your opponent in real life just mindlessly hitting air if you dodge the first strike?
i disagree, certain strings ahould track, don't mindlessly sidestep and attack, sidestep, block, see they have whiffed, take your punish.
Yeah like irl there's a demon with 3 eyes to fight me, c'mon
@@DLotS42Is this real life or is this a video game?
Sidestepping is a myth
I’m glad you explained this because I witnessed this a bunch literally last night as I’ve been slowing down and practicing defense. It’s was the first time I witnessed exactly this.
Hurtboxes should never go beyond the characters body
Facts
So sidestepping requires knowledge and discipline. Got it
thats a wild ass sentence to start this video.
How it works: it doesn't.
I can kinda understand if you’re on the side slightly but being hit while being behind is really dumb
It also helps against Dragunov’s WR2
11:24 if I am not mistaken you can cancel sidesteps with simply pressing back to block and because of it you can also loop quarter circles to do fast looping sidesteps. The input is u, ub, b, n, repeat for background stepping and d, db, b, n, repeat for foreground stepping. It doesn't have much use as far as I know, but it may help you beat people who delay buttons to catch steps, they can still catch you with the right timing though...
The problem with sidestepping in tekken (it was worse in T7) is imo that the CAMERA over compensates for both players on screen
While Tekken is.a 3D game notice the POV of both players is always on a 2D Plane. Too many moves in T7 and T8 that are clearly LINEAR should NOT hit…the tracking of moves needs to either be reduced so sidestepping can be consistent or NAMCO needs to add like a tracking meter for practice mode of some sort just my opinion
Adding a tracking side to their properties like they do for screws would be great too without needing to do too much work.
it's strange devs don't even trying to fix sidewalk problem at all. they had a lot of time between t7 and t8. i mean like kazuya example with hellsweep.
0:20 ah, finally it gets called out correctly
I never liked that you can be clear out of the way of a string but because you pressed to early you die.
It's worse because the punish usually comes out during the launching/screw part of the string. Dying for making the right call is just bad man.
So sidestepping doesn't work but sidewalking sometimes does.
Great game Bamco 😑
Lambskin is so fucking good at those sidestep cancels
Ninas blonde bomb hitting u without u in front of her is peak tekn 8 😂
I'll never forget when i sidewalked Nina's heat smash and the gunshot hit me *while i was behind her*
I'm here for the people calling him a shill and defenders in the comments
If only being a victum of frame disadvantage didnt inhibit you from being able to evade certain moves via sidestepping, then sidestepping would be 10 times better. You already have rapid realignment from intense neutral movement do all the heavy lifting when it comes to moves connecting no matter how linear or how bad the tracking it is
"How Sidestepping Works In Tekken"
It doesn't. Thanks for watching.
the only thing about this i think we all should agree on is when you sidewalk a long string and all of a sudden the camera does a 180 turn... everything else has a reason for working the way they do, but the camera going crazy is just wrong
MainMan videos been extremely good recently. Good job and thanks
tmm thank you so much for making videos like these. Everything is explained so well. each time you upload one of these fundamentals videos it is pretty much the best resource on the topic
Hitboxes for attacks should be forward facing semicircles
The hit box swelling( expanding) is ridiculous 😂
Best time to side step is after using your head burst. Most people tend to use it right after, then they just whiff!
How sidestepping works: You step the first hit then your opponent full 180s and murders you
This was a pretty good video, and informs players who aren't aware of the extending hitbox/hurtbox in tekken BUT his saying like "this is how pros sidewalk" is kinda wrong, because the way he's doing it, he's just doing a FULL commitment sidewalk, against hellsweep no less, which is unseeable. So just doing a full sidewalk like that is just nothing more than a Hard Read, which has it's place, but given how so many stupid moves track and still clip you in T8 with ridiculously large hitboxes, you see pros doing way more SS guard, SS duck, Sidewalk Guard, Sidewalk Duck etc. The way TMM is showing is just a hard read aka, casino which pros don't rely on heavily, they prefer to be more safe with things like SS guard and Sidewalk guard if possible.
Never jerk too fast, got it
Unclear instructions: Got hit by Reina in a place i wasn't even at, and Dragunov hit me sideways as if he had wolf/ghost behind him like Jun in TTT.
the skull trooper bryan 😂
String reallignment needs to go
That’s been in tekken since like tekken 1 idk
@@Animavestra69 there literally wasnt even sidestepping in tekken 1
@@clavicusvile1328 No but characters could end up with their backs toward you and their strings can hit you, try TAS to test it out this is a thing that has existed for YEARS
Edit: (Bro respond)
Great video breaking down the fundamentals. I’ve always liked Tekken but I didn’t actually start trying to get good until the tail end of Tekken 7 and this game. So this and the how to beat character videos are very useful.
2:30 MY BODY MY CHOICE BUDDY
They need to give the drag b4,3 treatment to kaz df1,2
i love when you do these videos to respond to the twitter / reddit drama posts :D very well explained, helped my scrub ass understand it better
The heihachi downplay is crazy. All this does is create a mix up for being able to punish the beck turn because if he adds one more or one less sweep then the timing to move in and launch changes. This is absolutely ridiculous, and people defending it are coping so hard
7:21 HAWK TUAH
A few months ago I saw a video (prob from Mr. Swe, here) where sidestepping being bufferable was mentioned and the slick sidestep electrics I've been hitting with Kaz recently have been boner-inducing. I just wish Tekken's sidestepping worked intuitively, like Soul Calibur's re: direction.
Yes this is right .in sf moving and stepping are 2 different things and in Tekken stepping and walking are 2 different things learn both or you are your not good. Mk has teleports so stand blocking and shuffling are 2 different things
LTG needs this
Nah he'll say that he knows it and its just broken tekken 8 and in Tekken 7 he never had a problem with it
@@GriKoLPriKoL420 LTG sounding like your average Tekken player in that scenario ngl
You'd think they would teach you how to sidestep in the game, but that must be me being silly to even think about that.
Since we established after drag that mid high homing heat launcher with safe mid mixup are preety op, why kazuya is allowed to keep one?
grrr no complaining video.. only learning? grrr
Natsu got angry
My brain really doesn’t get sidestepping, so I main Jack so I don’t need to
Soulcalibur's 8-way run feels better to me.
Sidestepping is broken in Tekken 8, damn near everything tracks now.
It's mostly just strings that have tracking. Otherwise it's pretty easy to just sidewalk and punish, especially when fighting kaz or hei
Ive never stepped things so cleany in a Tekken game since Tag 2. It's not 100% flawless, but its never been better if you know what you're doing.
@@UndefeatableKing I never played tag, but I've been having a blast with T8 especially compared to 7.
@@UndefeatableKingGo play DR and get back to me, you should be able to step without sidewalking everything
@@brobocops Why would I need to go back like 4 games to experience decent stepping? Stop living in the past old man. You can step without side walking everything. Maybe you've just got a skill issue.
I hope MainMan goes over getups, oki and neutral block because man sometimes I just feel like I make the wrong decision every time.
Oki game is all 50/50s.
You might need to start getting in the habit of tapping up instead of back so you don't get launch punished.
Know your character's floor game though.
Even Tekken God's will eat 3 f 1+2s with Nina in a row because they keep trying to tap up instead of rolling.
@TheR1zzard0f0z I'm used to holding back as a safe getup from T7, but I've seen Lilis be flat on their back go straight into a matterhorn in like 8 frames lol
@@skyefox oh sorry I misread. Deleted comment… But even still matterhorn is 17 frame startup and -21 so its an easy launch for you. But overall yea, tapping up = less frames to getup
I haven't been able to sidestep in Tekken since Tekken 4 xD
tekken sidesteps are like kanji. the rules aren't real and you'll just learn them by bashing against the wall.
The issue is that online is so shit in this game that you can’t visually confirm and punish. It is usually too late.
I NEEDED THIS THANK YOU ADRIAN
Still playing T7, it’s my first Tekken. Should I invest into 8? I’m a Bryan main, for reference
One thing that t8 definitely surpasses t7 is loading times. Also player count, so if you going to play ranked or quick matches t8 is on top.
In my opinion t7 have much more character identity while in t8 everybody kinda have to do rushdown 50/50. I main Dragunov and i much prefer him in t7(although he is amongst weakest characters there) just because how it feels to play him compared to other characters.
T8 much more fast paced compared to t7, and sometimes on of the players doesn't get to play the game because of overwhelming pressure and 1-2 mistakes(that can happen in t7,but not as frequently). That kind of a personal preference and i'd say if you like t7 pacing you might not like t8 as much.
If you have a friend/friends to play t7 with you you, that may be a point in its favor, cause it helps with waiting times and connection(assuming you and your friends have good connection).
Both games have balance issues but in t7 they mostly concentrated around dlc characters while t8 base roster filled with allot of busted stuff.
I kind of lost my trail of thoughts while writing this, so i'm gonna stop here. If you have any questions feel free to ask.
I'd recommend it. Its not as passive as T7 and has a lot of tools encouraging action (white health bar thats basically Bloodborne's rally system for comebacks, forced 50/50s after heat engager etc) but despite all the doom and gloom by some, its genuinely a great game and outside of a few oppressive outliers, is very well balanced.
Characters have more personality and charm, they've updated most characters movesets (Bryan not so much allegedly, idk i don't play him) and, as controversial as its been, defense requires a lot more skill now since backdashing isn't as prevalent and the aggression reduces panic button viability.
Theres definitely a learning curve in the transition from T7 to T8 but its enjoyable once it clicks - before then though, you might find yourself proclaiming everything and everyone is broken and that T8 isn't real Tekken etc etc. Seems to the common reaction.
T8 sucks. Wait till season 2 patch
absolutely go with 8. Tekken 7 is trash compared to it. People complaining or the rejects saying "nooo tekken 8 is spam and mindless aggression!!!!!" have no idea how to play the game, red ranks at their peak (if they even have the game lol). Great skill issue. Tekken 8 is incredibly fun and skill rewarding, plus amazing everything else a game should have.
@@TheLifeLaVita only yoshi and Ling players say that.
Someone's gonna report this guy for lewd acts one day
Why does bryan heat smash tracks wth man (if the first hit whiff, follow up hit will re track to player)
Most of y'all just complaining but he just broke down what took me years to learn about Tekken. Listen to the guy if you wanna get good
You're probably a dragonov main
@clipCommander101 congrats you looked at my channel lol. What's my comment gotta do with drag? You can SSR all of drag's options besides b3 and d2. b43 doesn't track anymore (as it never should have)
@@ZiyaB3ast Every morning when i wake up, i yell MASKU and wavedash furiously to my living room to play tekken 8. This conversation ended before it even began. To quote the famous words of kazuya Mishima, "hanashini narana".
@@clipCommander101 I bet I'd wash you
Tekken 8 is baby food.
(A rehash of a reply i made below)
I dont really mind single moves with slight tracking properties, like EWGF and Hei. B4 tracking SW/SSR.
But ENTIRE STRINGS?
Ppl SHOULD HAVE to earn the right to use their strings by forcing their opponents to stand still via good pressure and homing moves.
Its just how Tekken fundamentally works-this nee tracking on strings like this seems like an oversight, an overtunement of an idea for what constitutes as good offense in a game where there are moves that make you +17 oH or oB (Insane, no?).
It's a little jarring to have stepped your opponents offense only to react and swing only for their move to INSTANTLY REALIGN and smack you upside the head, no?😂
Tl:Dr-Overtuned strings that track w/ impunity does not feel good for PvP interactions. Its like they only want you to guess, Mid or Low. Casino Tekken, in a nutshell.
does it matter which side your on?
No, but it matters which side you sidestep depending on the move.
Stuff like this is why VF is better. The evasion in that game is 1000x better. And it works.
Go play VF with the other 57 players dawg.
@@UndefeatableKingwe will when the new one comes out. Enjoy mashen 8 with your 10 other players when it happens 😂🤡
Aaaaand you are one of the "VF better Tekken bad" people, let's just ignore that Tekken before T7 had great movement that was a reliable option. Devs just wanted to have VF aggressiveness in a completely eifferent game, twice in a row, and they fumbled the bag twice in a row.
@@Teo-uw7mhI think you're pretty delusional if you think VF will gather enough players to even remotely compete with Tekken. VF has been around for ages, and it has ALWAYS been a super niche game with just a small core player base. I'm not saying it's a bad game (cuz it's not), but I'm just saying it has never been really popular, and I highly doubt that will change anytime soon.
@@disruptor6550vf6 will change that. Ive seen the leaks. Along with rollback beong a focus. Itll grow. How much? Not sure
what timing i just had this happen to me with a king who did a string and I rushed it since it was my first every successful side step I was like what the fuckkk
Hi TMM, great video as alwys. Can You make second video, where You will be explain to us in which side should we sidestep or sidewalk each charackter in Tekken 8 ? I will be greatful :).
Nah thats too much work, there are videos that cover each character seperately, so just play the game and get to know it
Or just google Tekken 8 sidestep cheat sheet
@GriKoLPriKoL420 Give TMM free to speech ;). Btw I think I know something, I am tekken God at the moment, but it doesn't mean I don't see my weaknesses, especally my sidesteps and sidewalks. I assume I am not the only one with this lack :).
That comment. Lol you're no Tekken God haha@przemysawmaecki9958
So if you don't want to sidewalk it just hopkick or orbital kick it if you have one....
I appeciate your info and perspective on the game mm, keep it up!
soulcalibur players: "first time?"
Sidestepping works just fine in SC, and it is much more obvious to tell what moves you can step. The most complained about mechanic in 6 is rendered completely irrelevant by sidestepping.
Can you make a video on risk/reward and decision making in tekken 8, please?
This was very helpful
Your videos are the best
He's spinning around in circles, how can he hit what's behind him?!
There’s just too much tracking in this game admit it lol
Tekken 7 tracking is worse,when character do a moves it's like they have a fire magic ring projectile around their body,which is why people always backdashing in that game
@@9052jYes but this is Tekken 8 we’re talking about here
That's not what the video is about broski
OP wasn't talking about tekken 8 only
@@9052j tekken 7 is ass too, I would prefer playing old broken enjoyable tekken like tag 1 and 5 which are intuitive without dumb janky hit boxes and ridiculous tracking.
In tekken 8 sidesteps is completly broken!
Df 2 mid launcher that’s safe (-7f) on block is low key a broken move
Thanks
Interesting point there about the game being more fun in a sense that it's become more strategically difficult than mechanically difficult.
Honestly, the older players who invested countless hours into perfecting their execution (myself included) won't like this too much, if at all, but I think that this is the direction which all fighting games must take in order to make the game more sustainable.
Think of fortnite and how unrewarding it is to play the game when you constantly run across these sweaty players who can built a fortress in 2 seconds. When they introduced no build mode, suddenly so many people started picking up the game. That's because having a good strategy became much more important than relying on purely mechanics. I can see this happening in the fgc. I believe that the devs of 2XKO are aware of this, which is why they're simplifying the inputs in exchange for incentivising strategy and synergy with your partner
Im a new player that started 1 year ago, and why we just can't have both? We always had both, but now we only can have 1? I couldn't do fuckin quarter circle inputs and dps but it took only 1 month to be able to shit out em. Most people that do not play fighting games because "muah execution, muah motion inputs" should not play any game that requires learning and improving a mechanical skill if they are so scared.
@@alondjeckto Your point about adding a barrier of entry for those who don't wanna grind their execution will only alienate those who want to try out the game. That's gonna be fine for us long-term players, but you can't forget that we need new players to enjoy the game for its long term health. Think of it as a necessary evil.
We always had both, but the legacy players got so much better with their execution over the years. The execution of the top players in tekken 3 wasn't as polished as the execution of the players you see in Tekken King and up these days. If above average players right now are that good (which they are), imagine how uninviting getting into the game would be for new players. Like it or not, we need new players to ensure that the game's long-term health remains stable.
Also it's not like the game's completely getting rid of rewarding execution. It's just piping that aspect of the game down a bit. I'll only be concerned about the execution barrier dropping down too low when electrics become oversimplified (ie no longer a just frame or something of that nature).
Tekken as a whole - but especially Tekken 8 - has a problem with visual clarity.
A lot of stuff in the game looks like it should be steppable, but isn't. And of the stuff that is, you're clipped half the time, if you try to punish too early.
I completely gave up on sidestepping or sidewalking in Tekken. I'm a noob and it's too hard/unreliable. Sherlock Holmes prediction into The Flash timing into Bruce Banner knowledge-check. Ok game. No problem.
Love the Info
the job u did here is great however the game should NOT be like this, if u ate a side step ur movement shouldnt be able to keep tracking when ur opponent is behind u
Identify, destroy
Slide to the left
Slide to the right
It is still broken, fix your shiet harada!!!!
I’ll sidestep/ sidewalk someone’s linear attack. Clearly be on their side. But I’ll still get hit. 😒
Tekken5 dr is the last game where movement make me coom
Yeah, also TTT2.
Play VF, a game where movement actually matters
Fun fact: dragunov's hitboxes are so trash, this doesn't apply to him.
If you want to side step. Just dont. Thank me later
The only thing that makes this a 3D fighting game is a complete mess, I can’t believe it.
👌
nice
Way to much ghost tracking in this game
You turned the pb the other way around, the pb is coming from hitbox and range extension badly developed. It should not be the player to wait until the end of the animation to launch if you are facing the back of the opponent...
It's BECAUSE the game has this problem that we must wait for the end of the animation to not be fucked by a buggy hitbox.
But what's still true however, is that being patient is always worth doing, better to wait and be sure to launch safely is a good advice anyway.
put it on youtube buddy
You guys keep saying that string realignments are an unbalanced tekken 8 issue, the reality is even in tekken 1 this existed
“But there were no sidesteps in tekken 1”
I know that but there were ways to get a character to have their back facing towards you and if they did a string and you timed a jab at the wrong time you could even get launched, this thing has existed for years but the issues with tekken 8 have made you bitter
(which is understandable I mean most of us don’t enjoy this game)
So you have only now called out an issue that has been in the game for 30 years a balancing issue and too much tracking in the game, reality is that it is broken, annoying and unfair but it is not tracking, when they have their backs towards you their hitbox largens when you attack
(Also stop shitting on mainman, he litteraly outright admitted “it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense” directly from him, he knows it’s weird and unfair but he is trying to help you stop attacking him, I actually benefited from this video)
Nerfing the tracking would essentially nuke the skill floor. Anybody could just sidewalk the whole game which would be marginally better than all the backdashing of 7. Currently, there's actually skill expression in movement. You can tell the difference between a good player, a great player, and a noob. You want to remove that, yet complain this is the easiest, most braindead tekken has ever been, instead of just getting better. As demonstrated in this video, you CAN avoid shit if you know what you're doing. Stop saying it doesn't work, and just learn how to use it properly.
I would agree unfortunately even sidewalking can be inconsistent. The visual is something to be ignored unless identifying the start of an animation. Because Range and Timing play also play a role. I spend almost everyday labbing every character and even with good timing, range can make specific parts of strings clip you. Sometimes you will have good range but because of timing, you get clipped, at other times it's due to the engine bugging out like during Slow-mo, Rage art or unusual "On hit."/"On block" bugs that force realignment like in heatsmashes suddenly having full tracking. Even if you know the move exactly you cannot trust the game to be consistent. It is worse when further away because you'd assume a linear looking move would miss sidewalking at range 2 in a 70° angle. But find out that kissing your opponent and stepping 30° is more consistent. Properties change depending on whether you are closer or further, nullifying weeks of practice. True, stepping is what can separate a strong player and an unlearned player. But niche moments of tracking ruin it all.
@@Kenkyou_Nogata Of course there's inconsistency. Expecting perfection is foolish. As long as the moments are niche, I find that an acceptable metric. Labbing every character and coming to the conclusion that the system is busted is so anti gamer to me. Of course it is, now how do you exploit it to your benefit? That's what "Tech" is.
@torysteller4475 Consistency ≠ Perfection. Consistency = Retaining properties as often as possible. Perfection = Flawless retention of properties. Labbing every character is not Anti-gamer it is a sign of a gamer who loves his game enought to explore everything it has to offer completely. Also a lack of consistency shows that something is not ready competitively. I would take about ~70% consistency like how 2D games do where if something is broken it is consistently broken or vice versa, if my numbers serve me right Tekken is now ~40% consistent doing the same thing several times gives different results (Within a certain parameter) hence why sidewall combos will either drop immediately, after 1 second of splatter or sometimes function normally but never consistently. I say "Niche" in the sense that it's several different things that cause this "breaking/bugging" of an engine that can't be seen or usually never the same. It's either Range, Hit/Hurtbox irregularities, slow-mo, relationships between physics, glitches (Like Reina switching sides when hit on the side or walls), "on hit/block" properties messing with calculations. However sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Pick a side. Consistently broken is fine. Consistently working is fine. Not "Sometimes" broken, "Sometimes" working.
@@Kenkyou_Nogata Never said perfection and consistency were equivalent, just that inconsistency is derived from imperfection. Also labbing isn't anti gamer, the conclusion you're drawing is. Only losing 30% consistency when your interaction points are basically cubed seems totally acceptable to me. Sure, it can be improved, but to suggest the game isn't competitively viable because some interactions are unpredictable (yet not unfair) is silly to me, especially when the same players seem to be winning consistently. Which would suggest the relationship between all the variables you listed, though interesting for sure, are negliable during the actual game in comparison to skill. By all means though, continue to catalogue all the data you find. I'd be interested in looking it over someday.
😎
Hi