Should you Nitrogen Fill your Tires?
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- Nitrogen is often advertised as being the superior way to fill your tires, but is it all they say it is? Today we look at nitrogen tyre/tire fills, their benefits and disadvantages, and if you should fill your tires with it.
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Fill up your tires with helium for weight reduction!
Flying cars lol
Great Channel! One thing you missed is that oxygen can damage the tire construction as it permeates through. A useful place for nitrogen inflation is the spare, which usually sits there for years until it is needed. If it is inflated with nitrogen when new, it might actually get you to a service station before blowing out when you actually need it.
I recently purchased a new truck with nitrogen in the tires and wasn't sure I was going to fill them with nitrogen or air until I watched this video, after watching this I'll fill my tires with air as needed.
these kind of no bullshit both side of the arguments and non demonised reviews are what i like.
Such a professional review . This Channel deserves more subs 😀👍
I prefer Nitrogen to air in my race tires. In dirt late models we run 14 inch wide tires. We also run lower pressures due to the width of the tire 6- 12 psi. Although, if you so not purge the tire with nitrogen then vacuum it out befor doing a final nitrogen fill you still have regular air in the tire. In a 10psi right rear tire i see 3- 5 pound gains, with pure nitrogen i onle see 1.5- 3 pound gain at 100* F temp increase for both. The slighest bit of air has a drastic effect of pressure gain.
Sooooooo, if oxygen diffuses out of your tyre faster than N2, surely as you keep topping up your tyre pressure, you will be getting a greater % of nitrogen build up as time passes anyway?
Brilliant
But we change our tyres too often for that to happen tho
This is faulty reasoning as every time you top off you are decreasing the N2 *concentration*.
Totally agree, nitrogen does have some advantages, a bit exaggerated, so not enough to be worth the extra cost and effort for a road car. I have to disagree a little on the internal corrosion, while it is rare, I have seen it and its often where you get liquid water inside the tire (it happens) you can find corrosion even on the aluminum wheels and even oxidation on the inside of the tire. Never seen it bad enough it would be dangerous nor deteriorating the tire faster than it would wear out, its just an ugly mess inside the tire and wheel. Remember, the water is trapped inside the wheel/tire, its not the same as the outside that gets fresh water splashed on it, there will also be dirt, contaminants, even residues from making the tire, mixing with the trapped water, heat-cooled repeatedly, it can form acids in the water and that eats away at wheels and inside of tires. You're not wrong in the sense that I doubt there has ever been a tire or wheel that failed from any corrosion on the inside, but your not right either in the sense, it does happen and sometime there is mess when you pull the old tire off the wheel.
you forgot to point out that unless the guys fill up the tire in a vacuum chamber the tire will have 1 bar of air to start with. if you fill it up to 2.2 bars then you will have 10% oxygen.
So why do all tyre pressure gauges start from zero??
@@johno4521 someone wrote the number zero, you could write the number 1 bar. if you go to space then it will be zero
best vid on the subject i have found yet.
btw fill your tires on a dry day with someone who regularly drains their air compressor !
I use Nitrogen in my tires. I have tire pressure sensor. Only when it gets below 0C for the first time in the season the sensor will trigger a low pressure. The dealership refills mine for free and it won't happen again till the following year. I had my car for 2 years now, and only 2 times they top up the tires. So are my tire pressure sensor faulty that it doesn't report when the tire goes below the recommended pressure? No because, my fuel economy is consistent and the are no weird wear on the tires. Real world experience with air and nitrogen is better than just theories in lab data. I had cars where I used only air and that I always had to check tire pressure. Nitrogen is more stable in my experience. We have weird fluctuating temps in Canada and with that I love using Nitrogen. :-)
do a video on whether or not you should store your tires (on wheels) pressurized or not
So.....I actually was on a team that developed this Nitrogen application in 1976. It was first used at Caterpillar Tractor Company on large crawler tires. A fella named Ralph Grampp and I ran tests etc and found it worked in reducing tire wear.....but really only benefit was on HUGE tires that cost many thousands of dollars.
I spent over 45 years in the nitrogen business, for a major manufacturer of Nitrogen. I think I'm qualified to say......... NONSENSE.
The "O2 permeation" theory in US made tires is silliness.
Thanks Kyle! You just saved me $100+
Is that a formula Student car at the start? Your videos were a great help to me in understanding the fundamentals when I was working on an FS car last year. Have you considered producing some content about FS? Things like what not to do, simple set up guides etc. There doesn't seem to be much out there for smaller or inexperienced teams to watch and learn from so you could expand your audience with that. Great vid as always.
Bofatutube It is. Check out his other videos, he has a lot of good stuff about the engineering involved in building a racecar and often cites his experience in Formula Student. Dude's a genius.
Been watching for a good while mate, that's why I asked if he'd make some FS specific stuff. Agreed, it's an excellent channel.
Bofatutube exactly, i want to some content on things that aren't exactly very fast and also have to take on low speed corners.
The fact that oxygen leaks through the tyres faster than air means that over time through filling up with air, you will eventually reach 99% nitrogen (theoretically). I would estimate that if you've had a set of tires for a couple of years you'd probably have over 90% in them just from filling with air.
Antimation Studios the leak is SO small and slow
Your tires would disintegrate way before a noticeable difference from it loosing it from going through the rubber alone
Excellent illustration on which to make a decision. Thank you for saving me big bucks.
but I like the green little caps
New subscriber here. This is the channel I have been looking for ages. Great information and analysis. It would be awesome if you made videos on chassis(want to learn a lot about spaceframes and carbon tubs) and one on how to make a car go faster around slow areas(use of sharkfins etc.)
Thanks for clearing this up, for $30 you can buy a compact air compressor that you can use for any car (and football) for years anyway.
0:28 That thing looked a little big for Picton kart track in the wet! :)
I liked the video and subscribed to the channel. But the tire manufacturers as Brigestone not agree. They show tests and calculations together with universities that nitrogen after a certain period of time generates savings with maintenance and fuel for all vehicles and especially for off-road vehicles.
Quite a few things wrong here.
1. If pumping air into your tyres leaks oxygen faster than nitrogen, then after having refilled your tyres a second time (unless from completely 100% flat) you will have a higher than atmospheric concentration of nitrogen. Do this a few times and you'll pretty much be running on pure nitrogen anyway, so it's a ripoff.
2. Corrosion is actually just a reaction between air and metal. Oxygen literally burns metal very slowly, and that's what rust is. The reason you don't want to get your metal wet is because it holds the oxygen right next to the metal, thereby increasing the rate of reaction. It's not that "nitrogen is dry and therefore causes less/no rust", it's that there's no oxygen. If you could take the oxygen out of water (technically...you wouldn't have water if you did, but anyway) it wouldn't rust anything. Nothing to do with wet/dry.
---And as a side note, I'd like to address a rumour I've heard going around, and something I've seen some companies advertise.
Many many many people are of the assumption that Nitrogen is _innately_ cold, and that by being cold gives certain advantages in certain situations. This is very much untrue, nothing is innately hot OR cold. If you leave nitrogen in a room, it will rise/fall to room temperature and stay that way until you do something to change it or the room. The reason people use nitrogen for cooling is because it remains a liquid at very very low temperatures, and hence is great for extreme cooling applications.
One other thing to note is that aeroplanes use nitrogen in their tyres to prevent fires starting inside the wheel when landing (no oxygen=no fire). It's not fantastically useful for racing applications, but at high level racing, a gain is a gain.
I don't know about those papers, I use air and rarely ever have to add air, definitely not every 30 days only with significant temp changes, that work must be theoretical
though late because the video was released a few months earlier aint air 74 to 79 percent nitrogen anyway so the benefits exclude because there is only 26 ish percent displaced and nitrogen fillups arent done in a nitrogen filled space so u dont have 100 percent nitrogen so how are people stupid enough to go and get a nitrogen fillup when u get a normal fillup for free
Fun fact, (and not so surprisingly), aircraft also use nitrogen-filled tires as well.
Well about the whole pressure thing, I work at a Porsche dealership in a region in Germany where there's quite a harsh winter. So It's very common for me to air the tires up to 4 Bar before the winter (Cars sitting over winter, reduced chance of flat spots), and to adjust the pressure back down afterwards. This way I can see the pressure loss over that time period very regularly. It basicly always ends up at 3.5 Bar at the end of the Winter, which is quite a lot. When I did the same on some Porsches with nitrogen filled tires, the pressure would have come down to only 3.9 Bar! This of course is not quite real world representative because of the high initial pressure, but as far as I could tell from my own experience at least that part about Nitorgen filling is true.
Maybe the altitude plays a role in the whole tire pressure loss thing, maybe some shops just don't put in pure nitrogen (Whether on their account or because they can't get any better), I saw it work
Owners also all claimed they experienced a higher level of comfort since they had the nitrogen in the tires. Can't say anything about that myself, they claim it is that way :D
can you use the perfect gas law to prove this even though it assumes constant density?
so
Pressure = (Density)*(R)*(Temp)
R_nitrogen = 297 J/kgK Density of Nitrogen = 1.165 kg/m^3 (at 20 deg C)
R_air = 287 Density of Air = 1.204
R_watervapor = 461 Density of water vapor = .804
Pressure_nitrogen = (1.165)*(297)*(Temp) = (346)*(Temp)
Pressure_air = (287)*(1.204)*(Temp) = (345)*(Temp)
Pressure_WV = (461)*(.804)*(Temp) = (370)*(Temp)
so if you plot these as a function of temperature, air and nitrogen will have roughly the same slope, you can also see the slopes are similar (346 and 345) . The water vapor has a higher slope of 370.
But as temperature changes, density will also change, and density also depends on pressure
I would like to try nitrous here where the temperature can drop really low.
iof they charge 20$ per fill , its cheaper to by an own gas-bottle for sure., you could even by it with your friends to spread the cost xD.
What would be the best gas just purely thermal expansion and pressure wise?
Also so basically it's only worth it for race cars
( especially drag cars because tire pressure by .2 can make or brake a race to some point )
Probably nitrogen mixed with some other non atmospheric gases. The gases that were used to inflate F1 tires before standardization were closely guarded secrets.
Nitrogen seems to have the least reduction in density across the typical range in race tire temperatures (70°F [21°C] - 190°F [88°C])
easy-unit.de/converter/gasdensity.php?lang=ENG&class=19
Dam
That sucks
If all you are concerned about is pressure fluctuations with temperature, any gas will perform exactly the same, because they all follow the same gas laws.
The only reason you will see greater fluctuations with air than with dry nitrogen is due to the water vapor in the air.
Also, nitrogen will hold water vapor just as easily as air, so if there is any moisture or air remaining in the tire when it is filled with nitrogen, you will still have water vapor in there, just not as much.
I haven't seen any vacuum chambers at any of the places around me that do nitrogen filling of tires.
The whole thing is just a way for garages to part people with a little more of their money...
What about using something of even greater kinetic diameter, like Xenon? Or carbon tetrachloride?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_diameter
CCl4 would be a liquid at typical temps and pressures...
This may have been said before, but over time, shouldn't the oxygen leak out faster and leave you with a nitrogen filled tire anyway? You don't completely deflate your tire so the same air is there for years.
If you just top of with nitrogen that will take longer than the tyre lasts. You could manually deflate the tyre and then fill it again but that'll cost quite a bit more. As air is already 78% nitrogen. So at best you can only optimize the remaining 22%.
0.27 is that picton kart track?
Fill em with Radon for maximum fun
Soooo basically you fill your tiers with more expensive air ?
I don't have to check the pressure in my tires the car does that on its own
We dont actually fill your tires up with nitrogen if you have green caps or a n2 cap, we just tell you we do... I work at a dealership
Air is 78% nitrogen. Air bottles for medical use are also marked with an N (for nitrogen) for this reason.
So if you have pure nitrogen in a tire, wouldn't the inflation maintain itself only 1.27 times longer? If we use 79% nitrogen air as an inflation time of 1, 100% nitrogen would be 1.2658. Nitrogen is good for racing purposes, but for road use it's just another way to scam people that don't know better.
Has there been any testing on using other gases, that you know of? It seems more density causes more permeability, so molecules consisting of larger molecular radius should allow for less permeability?
Why not coat the inside of tires with a non-permeable or a less permeable coating? Any testing of this, that you know of?
because consumerist capitalism. minimum spending for best profits
you don't put pure "oxygen" in your tires, it's air.
You should see the video stop replacing tires.
unless you have a F1
Why do you have tires that are so old? If we learned anything from Paul Walker it's that old tires can kill you... (Not trying to be rude)
Ceazar Carr I'm sure he of all people knows that. They're probably from the Baja bug he built and only used offroad. That or he just hasn't cleaned the garage in a while. Anyone who works on cars will have a few bad tires sitting around :)
Leo Yeah I guess that's true
I thought race cars (and aviation) used N2 because if your super-hot brakes caught your tires on fire, they would rupture, and the nitrogen would put out the fire.
Not really applicable on a daily driver...
Aircraft use it to prevent fires inside the wheel starting in cases when the plane lands too hard and the rim hits the tarmac, causing a spark. The only _good_ reason to use it in race cars is the reduced heat expansion.
It's placebo for tyres. Only works if you believe.
HEY KYLE IM DENNY FROM PERAMEDA AND I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE ANOTHER DOUBLE CLUTCHING VIDEO FOR ME PLEASE I KNOW YOU ALREADY MADE ONE BUT I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD DO ANOTHER ONE FOR ME PERSONALLY PLEASE ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO DOUBLE CLUTCHING HEEL TOE DOWNSHIFTING IM TRYING TO GET THE HANG OF IT AND I WOULD LOVE IT MATE IF YOU COULD DO THIS FOR ME PLEASE! THANKS!!!!!
nitrogen is only good on race cars not road cars. a better question would be why don't we fill them with helium?
deth kon cause they would sound funny lmao
deth kon because of thermal expansion coefficients
and? less mass and an upwards force on the car
deth kon you don't want an upwards force on your tires
And thermal expansion is huge because controlling tire pressure is huge
Why would you want an upward force on the car? People put loads of money and effort into creating DOWNforce for a reason...
The tread and the sidewalls are exposed to the environment so the
oxidation claim is bogus. Wheels, especially steel ones, are sized by
engineers according to SAE, JAWA, and Tire and Rim Association codes to
account for corrosion on all surfaces. Filling road car tires with nitrogen is
nonsense. Unless you have a vacuum machine to suck all the air out of your tires before completely filling them with nitrogen, using an N2 bottle and regulator is a waste of time. You could go the route of having two valve stems per wheel but, have you seen the price of wheels with two valve stems? They are usually premium race wheels. (enkei.com/product-category/wheels/)
Its a scam for road cars, end of story.
Yeah 6 days longer 😂
Thanks for cutting through the bullshit...