Repertoire: The BEST Bartók Concerto for Orchestra
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 9 июл 2020
- This amazing work entered the repertoire basically on the day of its premiere, and it has been successfully recorded innumerable times since. Indeed, it's hard to limit the selection of great ones to a mere dozen or so, but I do my best in this discussion.
Видеоклипы
I like your enthousiasm! This is what classical music need! Thank you and greetings from Rotterdam!
Thank you very much!
I very much love Lenny’s take on the Concerto for Orchestra. The emotional connection he has to the piece is palpable even through an iPhone. He truly “got it” in a way I think some of these other recordings don’t quite. My favorite is Donhnanyi because he does a similar Vulcan mind-meld with Bartok, as does the orchestra. Plus I’ve been obsessed with the Lutoslawski Concerto for Orchestra since I saw it live about five years ago in Madison, WI.
I share you sense of awe for this piece 100%!
Incredibly, even in Boston, there are folks that won’t sit through Bartok in Symphony Hall. The 20th century blessed us with many stylistically diverse composers, but Bartok is right there at the top 1-2.
I love your videos :) honestly my favorite. I’ve listened to classical music for 40 years (I’m 41 now), i know so many performers and recordings so it’s a delight to listen to someone with way more insight than I have talk about a wide range of musical works and artists. Very accessible. Thank you .
Yes!! Thank you Mr. Hurwitz you validated the buyers remorse I had about the DG BSO box you are the man!!!
Reiner's version for that very sense of emotional detachment mentioned - the piece can work well that way! Then again for one that truly speaks at an emotional level and eschews the idea this piece is purely about being a virtuoso showpiece, for me it's Chailly, with the Concertgebouw. It's a serious interpretation, with melancholic intensity conveyed throughout. Even the 2nd & 4th movements, are tinged with a nostalgic sadness. Listen to the Elegia third movement, the beginning is magical in Chailly's hands, the climaxes profoundly moving; and the finale isn't played as a hell-for-leather show stopper but something much more substantial (the eerie atonal coda reminding us, this is the same composer who challenged listeners with works like The Miraculous Mandarin, and the Third String Quartet).
Just for something different can I'll also shout out for Sandor's piano reduction on Sony - it's an extraordinary conception!
Szell! (in spite of the "correction" in the last movement)!
This video made me very happy! The Dohnanyi has long been the favorite Bartok Concerto of mine (for me it's all about that 2nd movement, particularly the brass chorale), but I never really saw it mentioned in most "great" lists.
as a bass trombonist I have a special interest in this piece and that's because of the two trombone glissandi in the 4th movement where Bartok is ridiculing Shostakovitch's 7th. the 1st glissando, going from B to F was written for a bass trombone in F which existed in east Europe in the 20s-30s but replaced by the Bb\F bass trombone who had a much better sound BUT couldn't play this glissando so when it was played for the 1st time, which was in Boston, the BSO bass trombonist played C to F saying something rude like "it's not my fault that this old fool didn't know the trombone" and since then bass trombonists try all kind of tricks to make it work but at best they get a broken B-F gliss until...(are you still reading?) I invented an instrument that can play this gliss perfectly which was in 1991 but the 1st concert was cancelled because the 1st Gulf war started and Tel-Aviv was bombed by Saddam Hussein so it had to wait another year
Thanks for this little detail. There are so many of those that we otherwise would never know about...
thanks. really enjoy your advice!!! I listened to the boston with ozawa and really enjoyed it. I don't know how and what bartok was thinking, but hey, it works.
I can't believe how many times Doráti recorded this. I recently was blown away by the one with the Hungarian State SO. It may not be a 'great' orch, but what a knockout!
Agree! I listened to it twice last weekend. Hungaroton.
With Kocsis conducting? I agree - it's fantastic!
Great overview! So happy to see the Bernstein version get some love! That’s my version for the iPhone. I also have Reiner, and I’m very happy with having just those 2. They make quite an excellent contrast. Reiner is precise and clean, Bernstein is spontaneous and free.
I nice summary of the contrast between the two.
Ancerl and Czech Philharmonic, but I admit to being slightly obsessed with the particular noise this orchestra makes.
I’m partial to Paavo Järvi and Cincinnati Symphony. Also including a great performance of Lutoslawski’s Concerto.
Likewise
Agreed- it doesn’t hurt that is SACD
I agree on both counts especially the timps in the opening of the Lutoslawski.
I come very late to this discussion. I've always loved the Bernstein, it's a thrilling performance and would 100% recommend it to others. It's coupled with the Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta. I see that plenty of others agree!
I especially like his Symphony no.1 Jeremiah
Thanks for another really useful and interesting review. I'll soon be knee-deep in recordings of this piece. The Fischer is, I believe, available in the huge Decca box of everything by Bartok. It's such a tragic irony that he became popular at the last minute, when it was too late to do him any good. By the way, there's a version for solo piano, almost unplayable, which was recorded by Georgy Sandor. It's fascinating to hear the music stripped of its orchestral colour. I don't think anyone else has tried to record it.
Eugene Lehner suggested to Bartok that the 2nd movement was a scene of Noah's ark. You have pairs of animals playing up the ramp, then (after a blessing) you have a little third one playing alongside the parents.
You are classical music's hero
Concertgebouw with Chailly on Decca for me. For its sheer warmth and beauty of sound, long musical bow and fantastic, generous sound. The winds, but also the strings are simply great. I still feel it's one of Chailly's great achievements in A'dam. I am however triggered by many of your suggestions... Thanks!
I didn’t know Chailly had recorded this. Thanks, I’ll. look it up!
Dave, you forgot Leinsdorf with BSO. Absolutely fantastic!
No, I didn't.
The Kubelik is also on Pentatone in SACD, coupled with Ozawa’s MSPC.
I had the Kubelik before but the Pentatone restored Quadraphonic configuration for both pieces is SPECTACULAR.
So the Pentatone edition is this same recording? And the other works by Ozawa are worth it?
agree on the Kubelik, the soft brass chorales in the 1st movement has an intense yearning longing and sadness and i hear lots of beautiful details that get lost in other performances, thanks for reminding me again about it. Go listening to the Bernstein
Wonderful talk, and all of your picks are ideal, I agree with each and every one. As to your question about Haitink, he did indeed record the work with the Concertgebouw ; it was one of his first recordings with that orchestra, released in 1961 (the American Philips LP release had a pretty cool jacket cover, in fact). There also was an earlier Concertgebouw version, conducted by van Beinum, recorded in 1948. I think this was the second studio version ever, the Reiner Pittsburgh 1946 recording was the first. Re Ormandy, his 1954 mono Philadelphia version has even a more exciting finale and a more volatile fourth movement. Just another reason why we need a complete Columbia Ormandy box, with all 78s, mono LP sessions and stereo releases!
Thanks Jed. I have the Beinum and I found the Haitink hiding in a boxed set. Good grief!
There’s also a broadcast preserved of a performance by Koussevitzky/BSO from 1944, not of the premiere, but later that same month. Naxos issued it (perhaps it’s not sold in the US?). The Kubelik/BSO is a favorite of mine, and was curious if you would mention it, and mention it you did! Agree wholeheartedly!
I also reserve a special place for Chicago and Ozawa on EMI. Lovely sonorous brass, especially tender in the 2nd movement 'chorale'.
I agree. I had that one in hand but thought I already had too many versions.
I heard the Concerto for Orchestra in Mexico City, played by the London Philharmonic--stupendous!
You are spot on with these recommendations! The Bernstein is one of the greatest things ever captured by a microphone; I love it!
I grew up with Reiner, which is admittedly more modern and abstract in conception, and in college I picked up the Dorati which is wonderful. SFS/Blomstedt is pretty good too, with an ESPECIALLY wonderful 2nd movement.
Absolutely true, such a great piece, and remarkable how it was a hit from it's first appearance!
We always fondly remember our first. Reine/CSO. But it's not as great as his Strings percussion and Celeste which is perfect.
My favorite: Ormandy PO circa 1980. Advertised by RCA as the 1st digital recording. Lousy recording - Great performance.
The '79 RCA Ormamdy/Philadelphia recording sounds quite good in it's incarnation in the inexpensive "Ormandy conducts 20th century classics" Sony box. I heard them play the work the previous year, and the record is an accurate representation of their collective sound. A wonderful reading! (Especially the way the percussion is captured)
Oooo! I’ve been waiting for this one. Spoiler alert....Chicago Symphony does NOT “own” this piece, as so many American brass players seem to think.
Geoffrey Braswell I didn’t mean that at all. Reiner is a classic (though yes, a bit inflexible) and Solti’s is one of his few Chicago recordings I really like. I only meant that one shouldn’t STOP with Chicago. Kubelik/Boston is every bit as good as Reiner, and even a bit more flexible interpretively.
Geoffrey Braswell But also, one MUST have a least one recording by a Hungarian orchestra. So many fine recordings by a wide variety of great conductors/orchestras.
Dorati with the LSO on Mercury is always the one I go back to. Gripping and immersive, especially with the volume *cranked*.
@@franciscojaviermunozgarcia2609 Thanks for the tip! I didn't know the Minneapolis version but just found it on RUclips. Wow!
I think Kubelik is the one to end with...it will taste much, much better when you know and feel every little note of this gorgeous work. How do you think?
I have only heard the Lorin Maazel Berlin version one time and it is just amazing. Recorded about 65 or so. But I cannot find it anywhere. I heard it was in a big box of stuff but I am not buying a big box to get that one recording.
I forgot I had a copy of the Ozawa. That original ending is rather flabby. Thanks god Bartok had the good sense to improve it!
Thanks!
Thank you!
I might consider Sir Andrew Davies's recording with Royal Stockholm Philharmonic from Teldec/Apex. It's not a top orchestra for Bartok's music but the vivid interpretation of Andrew Davis I think it gives a fresh air to the whole piece. It also comes with Lutoslawski's concerto for orchestra.
Dave, I wonder if a talk about concertos for orchestra as a new(ish) form might be interesting? It seems to be a popular form with contemporary composers. I was interested to learn just now, because I had been led to believe he pioneered the form, that Bartok's was not the first, but rather Hindemith's.
How about this? ruclips.net/video/nuWgeiwOx8M/видео.html
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fabulous indeed! Thank you.
I have a half-dozen recordings of this work. My very favorite is Ivan Fischer’s because he brings out the humor better than the others and has a terrific Hungarian orchestra. Just listen to the second movement! I’ve not heard that equaled anywhere. I also like Reiner for the sheer brilliance of the CSO’s playing and his no-nonsense approach. When I want to hear something warmer I turn to Dorati’s Concertgebouw recording-my favorite before I heard Fischer. I have Dohnanyi, too, but confess I got that for the best ever Lutoslawski. Having heard your review, I’ll have to give his Bartok another listen. I was really looking forward to Kubelik’s with the BSO, but I find it disappointing-a bit tepid. His third movement is great, but the second movement is humorless and the brass just do not make enough impact for me. Maybe it has something to do with the sound as remastered on the Pentatone SACD I have. I also have Solti’s CSO account, but listen to that CD for his superb Dance Suite. BTW: Thanks for your MPSC suggestions. I had Marriner’s on cassette and now a very good used CD arrived yesterday that includes his Divertimento and Shostakovich’s 1st Piano Concerto as well. I’ll be listening to that shortly!
In agreement that Kubelik's Boston performance is the finest for this piece. I also like Bernstein, Dorati (in Amsterdam), Boulez (in New York), Fischer, and Zoltan Kocsis (on Hungaroton), whose recording you did not mention. Kocsis conducts a spirited, expressive performance, superbly played by the Hungarian National Philharmonic Orchestra and very well recorded; a real sleeper and well worth hearing (I recall it was well reviewed on Classics Today.com).
Indeed. I have it, but as I mentioned, there's an availability issue for anyone who does not want digital downloads.
Used copies of the Kocsis recording are currently available on Amazon for around $39. It’s also available on Spotify.
@@barrygray8903 It's a pity that (unlike the other recordings on that disc) the Kocsis Concerto for Orchestra was never incorporated into the Bartók New Series on Hungaroton, and it's a pity that the Bartók New Series was never completed.
Just a little factual note on Kubelík: His mother was a Hungarian countess, Anna Julie Marie Széll von Bessenyö. (WIkipedia)
So was mine!
@@DavesClassicalGuide Does that make you and Kubelik half brothers? :-)
Kubelik's live performance is on the back of his stereo MSPC.
Where to get the Kubelik (DG)??? Not the "Pentatone"-Version.
Hello dave, would you recommend Adam Fisher Hungarian state bartok orchestral cycle? Thanks! Greetings from bruxelles
Would love to hear where you think Ormandy ranks - assuming he does. Superb work as ever, sir.
His Sony recording is very good.
Hi Dave, I played both Bartok and Lutoslawski's concertos for orchestra in college. I have to say I like Lutoslawski's more and I found it a bit harder to play. Could you do a video on his?
Sure, at some point. I love the work.
This question is for anyone who can answer it, David. I don't understand the album art cover on the Reiner Living Stereo. Is it just an abstract 50s thing, or does it bave meaning? Please, help me out here.
I'm enjoying your reviews and learning a lot. You may know this but Solti was tipped off by his principal percussionist Gordon Peters about the tempo in mvt 2 being quarter note =92 not 72. I always felt his Chicago one was too fast. I haven't heard the LSO one but I bet it's a bit slower. The American orchestras have done his work generally better than across the pond. I even like the Dutoit/OSM for it's high technical level. I find Boulez's Bartok too cold in general. The NYP one is better for sure. Szell is great with Cleveland as well. Your Boston pick is tough to beat though. Thanks!
Mr. Hurwitz, I searched in some of your videos but wasn't able to find this: do you have any favourite versions of the Bartok's 6 quartets? I have Keller and Emerson Quartet. Thank you.
I think you're in great shape. They are two of the very best.
Dave, I see that Pentatone released a CD a few years ago of a Kubelik/Boston recording of Ct. for Orch. Is that the same performance you’ve recommended on this video? Thanks!
Yes, it is.
@@DavesClassicalGuide thoughts on another recording from Boston, which I happen to enjoy.... Leinsdorf on RCA.
Reiner did a previous recording in Pittsburgh. No idea if it is more idiomatic than the CSO/RCA effort.
Why not listen to it?
Really puzzled how I managed to miss the Kubelik's existence for so long. After all, I was really into classical music as a teenager at the time, and especially into recordings by the "hometown" BSO, but I don't recall ever seeing this release on either LP or CD. Anyway, after checking it out on Tidal, I agree with your assessment. I would also say it's probably some of the best recorded sound DG ever got out of Boston. (I found the Smetana by the same forces too multimiked, but this one is audiophile-worthy; in fact I'm guessing that only the presence of the 3,000-pound gorilla known as Reiner/CSO has prevented this from deservedly winding up on some "super disc" lists.)
I should also add that this is a hard disc to find in physical form. The release you have in this video is out-of-print, and Amazon doesn't even have used copies available. Fortunately, however, Pentatone reissued it as an SACD in 2017, and you can buy it from their website in physical or one of several downloadable formats, including an SACD ISO that you can burn to disc yourself and get both stereo and quad mixes -- the album was, like several other BSO sessions at the time, recorded for quad, but DG decided not to proceed with the format.
And, an anecdote: I heard a great live performance of this in Los Angeles back around 1980 or 1981. It was when Giulini had to go on leave for health reasons, so the performance, which was the final one of that LAPO season, was supposed to be led by Chung, the assistant music director at the time, but he also fell ill, and so Varujian Kojian stepped in at the last minute and did a wonderful job. Anyway, as we were leaving the Chandler Pavilion, we passed a couple of blue-haired elderly ladies, one of whom was loudly telling the other "well, I just don't understand what people see in this _modern music_ ..." Proving to me once again, that, at that particular point in time at least, when it came to classical music, Los Angeles was the largest small town in the world.
Thanks for sharing this. I'm glad you enjoyed the performance.
For a recording by a Hungarian orchestra + conductor, I personally prefer Kocsis to Fischer. IMO, the former is more exciting and sounds more rhythmically secure.
Another truly great one is by Arpad Joo on Sefel.
I thought about Kocsis, but I mentioned one recording in that series for MSPC--and just try and find it (at a sensible price).
@@DavesClassicalGuide There is a reasonably priced MP3 at www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7974038--bartok-concerto-for-orchestra-dance-suite-and-peasant-songs (at least compared to Amazon's price). You can also find it on Spotify.
@@JaneSmith_ Thank you. Nice to know.
David, have you heard the Leinsdorf conducting the Boston Symphony Orchestra. I think it's very good.
Good, not great in my opinion, but certainly enjoyable.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Well, I went back and listened to the Reiner performance and really didn't care for it very much. It shocked me, as always had the highest regard for the Reiner performance. It seems that even that the CSO weren't in great form that day.
I'm sorry but there's a lack in your wonderful recommendations...Ivan Fischer/Budapest Festival Orchestra
That's OK. I forgive you.
@@DavesClassicalGuide 😂😂😂...Mr Hurwitz you are always great...we'd be lost without you!!
Dave is never lacking. We may take issue from time to time - but lack he does not.
I grabbed the Karajan/Berlin from a bargain bin and after several listens I was almost willing to just give it back. That thing is DOA. He conducts it as though he'd rather be somewhere else.
He usually was.
I wish you had commented upon how so many composers fell under the sway of the Concerto. Sometimes it sounds to me like the compressed soundtrack of the 20th Century.
I think you missed the real best recording of Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra. I mean, Blomstedt conducting the San Francisco Orchestra, by far superior to Dohnanyi/Cleveland by any standards.
The Kubelik/Boston SO is quite awfully recorded, with screaming and ugly fortissimi, especially in the strings.
Concerning Lutoslawski's Concerto for orchestra, Tortelier/BBC Phiharmonic is probably the most outstanding recording available. In the first part, Intrada, Dohnanyi is too passive and well educated, when Tortelier is implacable and threatening.
No, I don't think I missed anything here, although Blomstedt is terrific, Tortalier not bad, but I am puzzled at your description the Kubelik sonics, which are terrific. Perhaps you need to adjust your system?
@@DavesClassicalGuide My system works perfectly fine. ;-) There is the same kind of problem with Solti/LSO: aggressive screaming strings (balance problem). On the other side, Dorati/Concertgebouw is very well recorded, refined sound, as well as Chailly/Concertgebouw.
@@Tracotel You might try the Pentatone "remastering" of Kubelik/Boston SO. DGG added some sort of steroids to the original recording. Pentatone used the original 4 channel master tapes without messing around. As a result the dynamic range is flattened and you will not have any overrides.