Thinking like an engineer here, I believe there are a few things to consider. The first is that as part of either grain orientation, the wood is basically made up of many tiny straws. If you imagine clutching a handful of straws, one could see where straws that don’t run from end to end in either grain orientation (what we would call run out on piece of wood) would be more problematic than grain orientation. It could very well be that a particular orientation may not ALWAYS be best. It could matter on the purpose of the tool it is attached to. Some tools may function better attached to a very stiff, rigid handle (parallel grain) while others may function better and be easier on the human body if the user can generate some flex and whip through a slightly more flexible handle (perpendicular orientation.) There are times that a rigid force application is more beneficial (think back squats with a heavy barbell) and times when a flexible force application is more beneficial (think golf club). And yes, when building, we like to design strength members in the tall, skinny orientation rather than the flat, fat orientation. But that has more to do with the way moment and shear forces are developed in a SHAPE rather than grain orientation. Changing the shape allows for more efficient use of material. That is why we see tall, skinny I-beam shapes in both wood and steel used to support loads perpendicular to the beam. All that to say that when it comes to “strength” of a handle, the shape likely matters more than grain orientation. Why does the “wrong” orientation handle seem to handle over strike better? Most likely because when the handle hits the anvil, the fibers flex and compress before starting to shear. In the “right” orientation, because of their rigidity, the fibers begin shearing right away. All this makes me wonder if the perfect handle wouldn’t be one that has parallel grain inside the elongated eye of the head that rotates to perpendicular grain for the length of the handle with no runout to create a handle that is both strong at its attachment and “whippy” along its length? 🤔
This is exactly right. The handle with the so called wrong grain orientation is able to flex more therefore it can better absorb the shock of the overstrike. The rigidity of the so called correct grain orientation is exactly why it failed sooner.
@@mywrkout1 This comes from axes where you want rigidity for the strike and side to side flexibility. And with curved axe handles there is rounout by default with grain running horizontally.
Worth noting is that in both overstrike tests the wood split down the length of the grain strands long before it sheared across it. Which is a great example of why learning to avoid runout is SOOO much more important than grain orientation. Another factor worth noting in the differences between the handles is it appeared that the parallel grained handles had much tighter growth rings than the perpendicular handles. Which I am honestly not sure which is commonly taught to be better. However if there is a difference in the strength between winter growth and summer growth (dark and light rings) as the old grain orientation rule would imply then according to that logic how tight the grain is should have a great deal of influence on the strength of the handle. I am not sure if this can account for the way the “wrong” grain behaved well in this test, or if none of it has any bearing on the strength of the handle.
I've seen this fought to the death on axe forums. At the end of the day grain orientation doesn't matter anywhere near as much as making sure there's no run out. Run out will wreck your shit.
Thank you for this test, helped me decide grain direction for axe handle I am making. Thanks for dealing with the painstaking part of rehandling two tools so I do not have to. Great video in my opinion.
honestly i think you were right by saying its more important in axe handles cause of the shape with the grain run out. with a hammer handle being over struck i can see the cross grain being strong acting like a spring vs just splitting down the grain with the proper grain orientation
Great video Ethan. I’ve discussed this with many people and everyone has a different view. I took Brent Bailey’s answer to heart the most - basically, he said it doesn’t matter at all, so don’t worry about it. My personal view is that the “proper” grain orientation becomes much more important when the handle length gets longer. With short handles, doesn’t matter that much. Keep up the great work.
Oh, he makes his own music 0_0? Edit: ah, just made it to that part lol guess I've gotta check him out on Spotify now. Edit #2: Wish there was a link to his Spotify account in the description though. I'm having a whale of a time finding it lol
Francisco Fernandez I just released the album and currently it isn’t on the streaming services yet, but hopefully before the end of December. Thanks for taking an interest! I appreciate it.
We had hickory growing on the farm I grew up on. When ever dad cut one down he would look at the grain and ring density. What he called slow growth with super tight rings we saved to make our own handles from the other got sold.
As long as all the fibers in the eye end in the hammer handle heel the handle will be as strong as possible. Axial alignment means more than radial alignment. Thanks for the video.
If I were making small batch custom hammers like Ethan. I would boil down my wood selection for the handle down to some pretty basic stuff about wood. The main thing I would be picky about is only buying clear knot free heart wood that is either quarter or rift sawn and then orientate the grain properly to the head. The other thing I would do if I were Ethan is study the science & manufacturing of wooden baseball bat's, I'm sure that Louisville slugger has done one heck of a lot of research on what's the best type of wood to use & the proper orientation for the grain.
Grain orientation is a you tube fallacy. On any striking tool you want a combination of strength and flexibility. A grain orientation of 45 degrees might prove to be better maybe. Straight grain as most people seem to want has the most rigidity but it is less forgiving. It breaks with less force and it transfers more recoil energy to the user. Flat grain has more spring in it which means less energy transfer to the work piece not enough to make a difference but has the most amount of recoil buffer to the end user. I don't think that it's worth sacrificing extra wood to produce any combination of patterns. In the end, if you want more energy transfer or impact protection and girth.
I’ve found that grain running the face to peen direction is usually better than grain running sideways but what I have found most durable was actually angled somewhat but still mostly running front to back. I can’t tell you how many handles I’ve stood there sorting through searching for that slightly angled grain at the hardware store
I think it doesn't matter about the orientation of the wood but it matters how you treat your hammer. Don't crush it under great force or repeatedly hit it on a the sharp side of an anvil. Treat it well and it will last a lifetime. ♥️
From my experience I would say that with a relatively short hammer handle, grain orientation is not that important. Grain runout and wood type and quality might be a more important
I believe this convention comes from axe hadles. As others have said grain run out is more important, and in a straight hammer handle, orientation is a lesser factor. In a traditional axe handle which has curves, the more perpendicular the grain runs, the more run out you will have.
Great video and Merry Christmas...As an engineer I'd like to see how a young hardwood handle would perform(from a 2-3inch diameter trunk)..with the softer core(if it is softer) running the full length centrally of the shaft...you could always call it a San Mai type handle lol...keep up the good work bud....
Very interesting... Added springiness of perpendicular grain or added rigidity of parallel... Almost like choosing hardness vs toughness. More tests may be required.
From the point of view of safety in the overstrike test I would rather have the perpendicular grain, since it broke rather than split isolating the handle damage. In the paralell grain handle that split would have been in the middle of your hand and under normal conditions you would be gloveless so could have been off work quite some time...for you that could have been disastrous as far as playing music is concerned too.... This is a very " could, if, might, maybe" subject but that breakage isolation sticks out as a major safety point. Very thought provoking and I think, valuable video.
They will always brake. the difference is that the head don't fly on the one with proper grain orientation, where on the other it will snap and be a big danger for you or your striker.
Interesting results Ethan, perhaps a sheet metal sheathing just under the head for those folks who have bad aim would be a good thing. I made sheet metal sheathing for my axes so that they can survive splitting wood, of course if you hit a perpendicular angle one will do major damage no matter what preventative measures one takes, but at least the damage is mitigated. I'd love to see a video of you fixing your hydraulic press, looks kinda catywampus. Great video, thumbs up.
if you want to test something with high variability, like the breaking strength of wooden handles, you need two things, a large sample size, and a repeatable test. its good to think about these things, but this was really just breaking 4 handles and learning nothing from it. You can glean a lot from engineering studies which have already completed countless tests to determine how grain direction effects bending strength.
When I took tools to make tools with Jonathan P I broke his sledgehammer handle while making a bottom swage no miss hit and I am not a hard striker and it snapped down the grain run out. Grain run out is way more important than anything when making a handle.
So, if you really want to know if there is a difference and want to be able to rule out variability between wood, I can help you design an experiment and use statistics to tell if there is a statistically significant difference between the two. It will require breaking more handles, but not hundreds. It will only require breaking like 60 handles. It will cost a bit, but if you want to gain some peace of mind in your business decisions, that will be the end result.
The shop press test would have yielded the same results either way. Instead of parallel being parallel and perpendicular being perpendicular, the parallel was perpendicular and the perpendicular was the parallel the only difference would have been the thickness of the of the timber. Either way it proved to be an interesting video, anyway merry Christmas guys and a happy new year
Maybe the grain orientation works (like the books teachs) only when the force is aplied like the first (wrong) test. When the force is applied like the second test (with the force in the hammer head swing) the layers of the grain split apart becouse there is not enought "cement/glue" between them.
Before watching , I’m going to say grain orientation means little to nothing, unless you want to pay outrageous prices for handles. That being said, with Hickory, saplings make better handles. A circle is stronger than sliced grain.
I'm no engineer but one orientation would take better static load (press), grain parallel, the other not. But in dynamic load one is stiff, grain parallel, so will fail more easily because of point loading, the other is like a spring so absorbs the load along its length more. I've probably explained it wrong or are way off😁 a tradie 😊
With the press test because you messed up the orientation you would switch the results because if you turned it on its side the grain would be switched
I have often used tree branch wood from Ash or oak trees as tool handles. The reason for this was out of practicality as most of my ash trees died in one year. What I have found is that if the correct part of the branches picked and it is free of small Branch knots it has a good grain orientation and will hold up very well. My primary forgehammer handle has been around for over a decade. I've used it for everything from blacksmithing to masonry so it has seen some very serious abuse. It's finally starting to go now and that is actually splitting from the bottom up. I think the reason for this is because it has all of the grain orientation it's a solid round and while I did narrow the sides off 85% of the strength of the material was there. I'd say that's just a theory but since most of my tools have handles like this and they hold up well I would tend to lean towards using Branchwood for two Handles in general but there isn't too much out there on it other than my own experience.
it's not a good test because that kind of breakage happens with splitting axes or driving sledges but while forging. a better test would have been to make a handle with a very thin section near the head or a hollowed out section as some old handles uses to have to reduce vibration.
I make my own handles with a waist in them, as you describe, to provide some life to the hammer. Just my preference but if I dont think the handle can stand up to the force I use a bigger hammer. I find a lot of the hammers with parallel handles lifeless , unpleasnt to use and ugly as sin.
Mike Boone if you pay attention to my voice over when doing the press test, I address this issue, and take a look at some of these comments that clarify what was going on there, it might help out. Thanks Ethan
@@EthanHarty I just hate it when I do some thing so stupid but at 76 it seems to be happening more often . Sorry there Ethan, take care stay safe . Happy trails
What? What do you mean you don't use a 1045 water quenching tool steel square circle rounding hammer with a non-parallel grain handle? That's not very S T R O N K of you.
Earl Ellerbee, CJF thank you for your valuable comment, the world is better because of it, really good job on that one 👍🏻 I’m very glad you acted on the urge to let people know what you were thinking, and for some reason decide to try to insult one of the most talented people I’ve ever met, just excellent
@@WillStelterbladesmith Damn dude, why do you always reply to negative comments. It only makes people like that comment more often and makes you seem just as childish.
Will Stelter, if you think I meant to insult Ethan, you are sorely mistaken. As a farrier and avid blacksmith myself, I cannot help but cringe when seeing off face hammer blows destroying handles, that’s what I find cringe worthy. That costs time and money. I apologize for not better explaining my comment. My point stands that his experiment is inconclusive. As for your demeanor, sir, I find it rather disturbing that you’d attack your own fan base or anyone with such malice. Your arrogance speaks volumes and I appreciate you for making it known to me. I’m an avid follower of Alec Steele and have been since the Barker Street Days. I’ve admired Alecs, Ethans, and your work through RUclips for quite some time. Keep up the good work but let it be known that you have a piss poor attitude towards commenters. I will now take my place as a good little viewer and simply smash the “like” button whenever a video comes out as I’m sure that’s what we are supposed to do, right Will?
I completely agree that as far as the scientific method goes that the lack of consistency in the set up of the experiment creates too many variables to provide consistent results. In saying that I feel that Ethan made a decent effort and may not be completely familiar with the scientific method. What I do not comprehend is why you feel the content to be cringeworthy. I would really appreciate if you could explain why you feel like that. It would be great if you could do that in a way that will make it simple to understand for those of us who do not have your knowledge and experience. Hoping for a reply that fully explains your point of view in a way that I (and hopefully other viewers) can appreciate.
Check his website, he sells them there. I bought a set of top and bottom fullers from him and they're beautiful and functional. Can't go wrong. His haft hammers are something else to hold...
Have you considered using the handles for their intended purpose to see if there is any advantage that may outweigh any strength deficit? I'm guessing a perpendicular grain will give you a mechanical advantage like bow wood.
My understanding is that grain direction matters for axes. When you hit a piece of wood you want a rigid handle but then when you twist the handle to separate the wood you want a flexible one. That makes perfect sense to me. Or when ysing a froe, you wsnt the grain paralel with the froe blade because the pulling action shen twisting the froe gors agains the grain and it tolerates the forces better that way, much like how a bow tilerstes bending. So the idea is that you want rigidity for blunt force and flexibility for bending.
After that chip came off the side of your anvil at 11:57 ("number four"), I cringed and covered my eyes. Maybe it's not worth repeating this experiment without mitigating the danger of shrapnel? Otherwise, keep up the outstanding work.
One could argue that the "inferior orientation" is safer because it only failed at the point of impact, and thus you wouldn't be left with woodchunks in your hands and potential splinters going into your flesh. Which is what seems more likely to happen with the superior grain orientation as it will fail. along the entire length of the handle if it does fail.
I love that you did this experiment, scientific or not. It shows how much you love your craft. BTW, I ordered your new music for my dad for Christmas. He's a fiddle player himself, and I know he will love listening to your talent!
Lol! Love it awesome video. Need more testing however. This could be fun if done right. Project Farm style Types wood, machine arm, scales all the fun stuff
"In love, only one must have the power. One must be the hammer; the other, the anvil. I gladly accept being the anvil. "THE VENUS OF THE SKINS" (1870) LEOPOLD VON SACHER-MASOCH (1836-1895)
I learned the grain should be laying like a leaf-spring in a toolhandle. As is in a Longbow. Kind of sloppy. The major concern is to prevent backstrike. This is what kills your hands at the end of the day. So a bendy Handle will be better. Also too hard woods are a pain for that matter. Good are Ash and Hickory, bad is Beech, for example. A good hammerstrike will put almost no force on the handle as the center of mass (of the hammerhead) makes the impact. The handle is just for accelerating and guiding. I saw hammerhandles and punchhandles being made of thick pieces of Cable to avoid backstrike.
Yeah wood is wood, each different... I think that the grain 'thickness' is playing a big part... The faster growing tree with big growth ring has more "summer wood" (the porous part on ash is spring wood, when it grows fast to put out the leaves, and then the hard part, summer wood) so the bigger grain is better, because ash tends to break at the porous part, which has absolutly no strenght. So that may also explain your results, because the perpendicular handle had bigger grain Maybe you should experiment with grain thickness, to see if that chances something👍
Tight grain is probably more important that orientation but, species of wood, the age of the wood(ie; age of tree and where in the trunk blank is obtained) and whether it has been kiln dried or air dried will also greatly affect the stability and strength of the handle.
Thank you for that. That’s weird I thought it would’ve been the other way around, the handle with the wrong orientation took more blows than the handle with the right orientation.
Thinking like an engineer here, I believe there are a few things to consider. The first is that as part of either grain orientation, the wood is basically made up of many tiny straws. If you imagine clutching a handful of straws, one could see where straws that don’t run from end to end in either grain orientation (what we would call run out on piece of wood) would be more problematic than grain orientation.
It could very well be that a particular orientation may not ALWAYS be best. It could matter on the purpose of the tool it is attached to. Some tools may function better attached to a very stiff, rigid handle (parallel grain) while others may function better and be easier on the human body if the user can generate some flex and whip through a slightly more flexible handle (perpendicular orientation.) There are times that a rigid force application is more beneficial (think back squats with a heavy barbell) and times when a flexible force application is more beneficial (think golf club).
And yes, when building, we like to design strength members in the tall, skinny orientation rather than the flat, fat orientation. But that has more to do with the way moment and shear forces are developed in a SHAPE rather than grain orientation. Changing the shape allows for more efficient use of material. That is why we see tall, skinny I-beam shapes in both wood and steel used to support loads perpendicular to the beam. All that to say that when it comes to “strength” of a handle, the shape likely matters more than grain orientation.
Why does the “wrong” orientation handle seem to handle over strike better? Most likely because when the handle hits the anvil, the fibers flex and compress before starting to shear. In the “right” orientation, because of their rigidity, the fibers begin shearing right away.
All this makes me wonder if the perfect handle wouldn’t be one that has parallel grain inside the elongated eye of the head that rotates to perpendicular grain for the length of the handle with no runout to create a handle that is both strong at its attachment and “whippy” along its length? 🤔
Came to say the same.
This is exactly right. The handle with the so called wrong grain orientation is able to flex more therefore it can better absorb the shock of the overstrike. The rigidity of the so called correct grain orientation is exactly why it failed sooner.
@@mywrkout1 This comes from axes where you want rigidity for the strike and side to side flexibility. And with curved axe handles there is rounout by default with grain running horizontally.
While I'll always prefer the traditional grain orientation, grain runout is far more important predictor of handle failure.
Worth noting is that in both overstrike tests the wood split down the length of the grain strands long before it sheared across it. Which is a great example of why learning to avoid runout is SOOO much more important than grain orientation.
Another factor worth noting in the differences between the handles is it appeared that the parallel grained handles had much tighter growth rings than the perpendicular handles. Which I am honestly not sure which is commonly taught to be better. However if there is a difference in the strength between winter growth and summer growth (dark and light rings) as the old grain orientation rule would imply then according to that logic how tight the grain is should have a great deal of influence on the strength of the handle.
I am not sure if this can account for the way the “wrong” grain behaved well in this test, or if none of it has any bearing on the strength of the handle.
Was anyone else mesmerised by the Four Guys swinging their hammers in sync?
Wow... that IS odd. That may call for further experimentation, Ethan. Will be watching for follow-up.
I've seen this fought to the death on axe forums.
At the end of the day grain orientation doesn't matter anywhere near as much as making sure there's no run out.
Run out will wreck your shit.
This was a very cool idea and an interesting video.
Thank you for this test, helped me decide grain direction for axe handle I am making. Thanks for dealing with the painstaking part of rehandling two tools so I do not have to. Great video in my opinion.
honestly i think you were right by saying its more important in axe handles cause of the shape with the grain run out. with a hammer handle being over struck i can see the cross grain being strong acting like a spring vs just splitting down the grain with the proper grain orientation
Great video Ethan. I’ve discussed this with many people and everyone has a different view. I took Brent Bailey’s answer to heart the most - basically, he said it doesn’t matter at all, so don’t worry about it. My personal view is that the “proper” grain orientation becomes much more important when the handle length gets longer. With short handles, doesn’t matter that much. Keep up the great work.
a good test would be between a handmade riven handle vs a factory sawn and turned handle
Merry Christmas !
You make great videos and music.
Oh, he makes his own music 0_0? Edit: ah, just made it to that part lol guess I've gotta check him out on Spotify now. Edit #2: Wish there was a link to his Spotify account in the description though. I'm having a whale of a time finding it lol
Francisco Fernandez I just released the album and currently it isn’t on the streaming services yet, but hopefully before the end of December. Thanks for taking an interest! I appreciate it.
We had hickory growing on the farm I grew up on. When ever dad cut one down he would look at the grain and ring density. What he called slow growth with super tight rings we saved to make our own handles from the other got sold.
As long as all the fibers in the eye end in the hammer handle heel the handle will be as strong as possible. Axial alignment means more than radial alignment. Thanks for the video.
If I were making small batch custom hammers like Ethan. I would boil down my wood selection for the handle down to some pretty basic stuff about wood. The main thing I would be picky about is only buying clear knot free heart wood that is either quarter or rift sawn and then orientate the grain properly to the head. The other thing I would do if I were Ethan is study the science & manufacturing of wooden baseball bat's, I'm sure that Louisville slugger has done one heck of a lot of research on what's the best type of wood to use & the proper orientation for the grain.
Grain orientation is a you tube fallacy. On any striking tool you want a combination of strength and flexibility. A grain orientation of 45 degrees might prove to be better maybe. Straight grain as most people seem to want has the most rigidity but it is less forgiving. It breaks with less force and it transfers more recoil energy to the user. Flat grain has more spring in it which means less energy transfer to the work piece not enough to make a difference but has the most amount of recoil buffer to the end user. I don't think that it's worth sacrificing extra wood to produce any combination of patterns. In the end, if you want more energy transfer or impact protection and girth.
speaking of hammer. your press is hammered.
Merry Christmas to you and your family Ethan.
Keep up the great work!
I’ve found that grain running the face to peen direction is usually better than grain running sideways but what I have found most durable was actually angled somewhat but still mostly running front to back. I can’t tell you how many handles I’ve stood there sorting through searching for that slightly angled grain at the hardware store
You proved that the recommended grain orientation may not always be the strongest option, which is interesting. tbh, I'm curious about that now...
I think it doesn't matter about the orientation of the wood but it matters how you treat your hammer. Don't crush it under great force or repeatedly hit it on a the sharp side of an anvil. Treat it well and it will last a lifetime. ♥️
From my experience I would say that with a relatively short hammer handle, grain orientation is not that important. Grain runout and wood type and quality might be a more important
Ethan, you don't need a video of forging to keep us entertained.
I believe this convention comes from axe hadles. As others have said grain run out is more important, and in a straight hammer handle, orientation is a lesser factor. In a traditional axe handle which has curves, the more perpendicular the grain runs, the more run out you will have.
Avoiding runout is the cardinal rule at least for bowyers.
Great video and Merry Christmas...As an engineer I'd like to see how a young hardwood handle would perform(from a 2-3inch diameter trunk)..with the softer core(if it is softer) running the full length centrally of the shaft...you could always call it a San Mai type handle lol...keep up the good work bud....
Very interesting... Added springiness of perpendicular grain or added rigidity of parallel... Almost like choosing hardness vs toughness. More tests may be required.
From the point of view of safety in the overstrike test I would rather have the perpendicular grain, since it broke rather than split isolating the handle damage. In the paralell grain handle that split would have been in the middle of your hand and under normal conditions you would be gloveless so could have been off work quite some time...for you that could have been disastrous as far as playing music is concerned too....
This is a very " could, if, might, maybe" subject but that breakage isolation sticks out as a major safety point.
Very thought provoking and I think, valuable video.
They will always brake. the difference is that the head don't fly on the one with proper grain orientation, where on the other it will snap and be a big danger for you or your striker.
Interesting results Ethan, perhaps a sheet metal sheathing just under the head for those folks who have bad aim would be a good thing. I made sheet metal sheathing for my axes so that they can survive splitting wood, of course if you hit a perpendicular angle one will do major damage no matter what preventative measures one takes, but at least the damage is mitigated. I'd love to see a video of you fixing your hydraulic press, looks kinda catywampus. Great video, thumbs up.
if you want to test something with high variability, like the breaking strength of wooden handles, you need two things, a large sample size, and a repeatable test. its good to think about these things, but this was really just breaking 4 handles and learning nothing from it. You can glean a lot from engineering studies which have already completed countless tests to determine how grain direction effects bending strength.
Great idea!
When I took tools to make tools with Jonathan P I broke his sledgehammer handle while making a bottom swage no miss hit and I am not a hard striker and it snapped down the grain run out. Grain run out is way more important than anything when making a handle.
So, if you really want to know if there is a difference and want to be able to rule out variability between wood, I can help you design an experiment and use statistics to tell if there is a statistically significant difference between the two. It will require breaking more handles, but not hundreds. It will only require breaking like 60 handles. It will cost a bit, but if you want to gain some peace of mind in your business decisions, that will be the end result.
The shop press test would have yielded the same results either way. Instead of parallel being parallel and perpendicular being perpendicular, the parallel was perpendicular and the perpendicular was the parallel the only difference would have been the thickness of the of the timber. Either way it proved to be an interesting video, anyway merry Christmas guys and a happy new year
nosyaj007 Merry Christmas to you too! I’m glad you understood and clarified the deal with the press test. Thank you.
Maybe the grain orientation works (like the books teachs) only when the force is aplied like the first (wrong) test. When the force is applied like the second test (with the force in the hammer head swing) the layers of the grain split apart becouse there is not enought "cement/glue" between them.
Before watching , I’m going to say grain orientation means little to nothing, unless you want to pay outrageous prices for handles.
That being said, with Hickory, saplings make better handles. A circle is stronger than sliced grain.
I'm no engineer but one orientation would take better static load (press), grain parallel, the other not. But in dynamic load one is stiff, grain parallel, so will fail more easily because of point loading, the other is like a spring so absorbs the load along its length more.
I've probably explained it wrong or are way off😁 a tradie 😊
Hey Friend!! I was SEVERAL hammers on the concrete floor. Would they be for sale?? If yes was is the price?? THANKS
Good video but could have been half the length you really went on abit.
Test viability of navigating tool precinct faciltating qualitative communicationality...
With the press test because you messed up the orientation you would switch the results because if you turned it on its side the grain would be switched
I have often used tree branch wood from Ash or oak trees as tool handles. The reason for this was out of practicality as most of my ash trees died in one year. What I have found is that if the correct part of the branches picked and it is free of small Branch knots it has a good grain orientation and will hold up very well. My primary forgehammer handle has been around for over a decade. I've used it for everything from blacksmithing to masonry so it has seen some very serious abuse. It's finally starting to go now and that is actually splitting from the bottom up. I think the reason for this is because it has all of the grain orientation it's a solid round and while I did narrow the sides off 85% of the strength of the material was there. I'd say that's just a theory but since most of my tools have handles like this and they hold up well I would tend to lean towards using Branchwood for two Handles in general but there isn't too much out there on it other than my own experience.
never over strike your hammer good reason and show y not to...
it's not a good test because that kind of breakage happens with splitting axes or driving sledges but while forging. a better test would have been to make a handle with a very thin section near the head or a hollowed out section as some old handles uses to have to reduce vibration.
I make my own handles with a waist in them, as you describe, to provide some life to the hammer. Just my preference but if I dont think the handle can stand up to the force I use a bigger hammer. I find a lot of the hammers with parallel handles lifeless , unpleasnt to use and ugly as sin.
Something something grain run out something. Something?
I am hard pressed to have ever seen an ax or hammer handle see any stress on the side of the handle .very confusing .
Mike Boone if you pay attention to my voice over when doing the press test, I address this issue, and take a look at some of these comments that clarify what was going on there, it might help out.
Thanks
Ethan
@@EthanHarty I just hate it when I do some thing so stupid but at 76 it seems to be happening more often . Sorry there Ethan, take care stay safe . Happy trails
What? What do you mean you don't use a 1045 water quenching tool steel square circle rounding hammer with a non-parallel grain handle? That's not very S T R O N K of you.
Too many variables to be conclusive. Definitely created some cringe worthy content though.
Earl Ellerbee, CJF thank you for your valuable comment, the world is better because of it, really good job on that one 👍🏻 I’m very glad you acted on the urge to let people know what you were thinking, and for some reason decide to try to insult one of the most talented people I’ve ever met, just excellent
@@WillStelterbladesmith Damn dude, why do you always reply to negative comments. It only makes people like that comment more often and makes you seem just as childish.
Will Stelter, if you think I meant to insult Ethan, you are sorely mistaken. As a farrier and avid blacksmith myself, I cannot help but cringe when seeing off face hammer blows destroying handles, that’s what I find cringe worthy. That costs time and money. I apologize for not better explaining my comment. My point stands that his experiment is inconclusive. As for your demeanor, sir, I find it rather disturbing that you’d attack your own fan base or anyone with such malice. Your arrogance speaks volumes and I appreciate you for making it known to me. I’m an avid follower of Alec Steele and have been since the Barker Street Days. I’ve admired Alecs, Ethans, and your work through RUclips for quite some time. Keep up the good work but let it be known that you have a piss poor attitude towards commenters. I will now take my place as a good little viewer and simply smash the “like” button whenever a video comes out as I’m sure that’s what we are supposed to do, right Will?
I completely agree that as far as the scientific method goes that the lack of consistency in the set up of the experiment creates too many variables to provide consistent results. In saying that I feel that Ethan made a decent effort and may not be completely familiar with the scientific method. What I do not comprehend is why you feel the content to be cringeworthy. I would really appreciate if you could explain why you feel like that. It would be great if you could do that in a way that will make it simple to understand for those of us who do not have your knowledge and experience. Hoping for a reply that fully explains your point of view in a way that I (and hopefully other viewers) can appreciate.
First!! ✌️
You should remake the video and do it properly lol was actually interested
Hey Ethan how much would you charge to make me a hammer?
Me too.
Check his website, he sells them there. I bought a set of top and bottom fullers from him and they're beautiful and functional. Can't go wrong. His haft hammers are something else to hold...
Appreciate you sharing the confusion and honesty
Have you considered using the handles for their intended purpose to see if there is any advantage that may outweigh any strength deficit? I'm guessing a perpendicular grain will give you a mechanical advantage like bow wood.
My understanding is that grain direction matters for axes. When you hit a piece of wood you want a rigid handle but then when you twist the handle to separate the wood you want a flexible one. That makes perfect sense to me. Or when ysing a froe, you wsnt the grain paralel with the froe blade because the pulling action shen twisting the froe gors agains the grain and it tolerates the forces better that way, much like how a bow tilerstes bending. So the idea is that you want rigidity for blunt force and flexibility for bending.
After that chip came off the side of your anvil at 11:57 ("number four"), I cringed and covered my eyes. Maybe it's not worth repeating this experiment without mitigating the danger of shrapnel? Otherwise, keep up the outstanding work.
One could argue that the "inferior orientation" is safer because it only failed at the point of impact, and thus you wouldn't be left with woodchunks in your hands and potential splinters going into your flesh. Which is what seems more likely to happen with the superior grain orientation as it will fail. along the entire length of the handle if it does fail.
next video ..... gluing them back together :
I love that you did this experiment, scientific or not. It shows how much you love your craft. BTW, I ordered your new music for my dad for Christmas. He's a fiddle player himself, and I know he will love listening to your talent!
Lol! Love it awesome video. Need more testing however. This could be fun if done right. Project Farm style Types wood, machine arm, scales all the fun stuff
"In love, only one must have the power. One must be the hammer; the other, the anvil. I gladly accept being the anvil.
"THE VENUS OF THE SKINS" (1870) LEOPOLD VON SACHER-MASOCH (1836-1895)
I learned the grain should be laying like a leaf-spring in a toolhandle. As is in a Longbow. Kind of sloppy. The major concern is to prevent backstrike. This is what kills your hands at the end of the day. So a bendy Handle will be better. Also too hard woods are a pain for that matter. Good are Ash and Hickory, bad is Beech, for example. A good hammerstrike will put almost no force on the handle as the center of mass (of the hammerhead) makes the impact. The handle is just for accelerating and guiding. I saw hammerhandles and punchhandles being made of thick pieces of Cable to avoid backstrike.
Yeah wood is wood, each different...
I think that the grain 'thickness' is playing a big part... The faster growing tree with big growth ring has more "summer wood" (the porous part on ash is spring wood, when it grows fast to put out the leaves, and then the hard part, summer wood) so the bigger grain is better, because ash tends to break at the porous part, which has absolutly no strenght.
So that may also explain your results, because the perpendicular handle had bigger grain
Maybe you should experiment with grain thickness, to see if that chances something👍
Tight grain is probably more important that orientation but, species of wood, the age of the wood(ie; age of tree and where in the trunk blank is obtained) and whether it has been kiln dried or air dried will also greatly affect the stability and strength of the handle.
Thank you for that. That’s weird I thought it would’ve been the other way around, the handle with the wrong orientation took more blows than the handle with the right orientation.
I would say the break at 13:57 is an example of grain run out
Very good music, you`ve got talent!!
Edit nevermind
Very interesting