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How to make the dome on the sounboard of a spanish guitar
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- Опубликовано: 14 ноя 2017
- The dome of the soundboard is a crucial part of the guitar making process, here is how I achieve it. I use a 25 feet radius dish (7.6 meters)
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In Pablo's introduction, he is so humble by saying "guitar maker". Let me just say it for him because he is too humble to say it "GUITAR MAESTRO"! There . . . .
Thank you Pablo I really appreciate your videos and the effort that you put into them.
It's very insightful. Thank you Mr. Pablo Requena
I just made one in a dish like this with no bridge plate "a la Jose Romanillos" but found the sound board to actually dip in in the center before the bridge goes on. I think the bridge plate helps much to maintain this dome shape on the top and will go back to using one. Anyway, I really enjoy your videos
So helpful Pablo, thank you for taking the time in making the video, answers all the questions and measurements that we forgot.
You are welcome !!
Thank you Mr Pablo.Great video.
Thank you. Your videos are great, lots of details. Awesome camera angles. Full of knowledge. Saludos desde Puerto Rico.
Me alegro de que te guste!! un saludo.
Buena video Pablo, siempre es un placer escuchar tus consejos.
Gracias Alex
I see on this Spanish guitar you are using a spayed (Torres?) bracing pattern. On the classical guitars you built for my mum and her friend you did a grid pattern. It would be very interesting for you to do a video discussing the 2 and why you’d do one over the other. Many thanks.
Pablo, you have to make a video on showing us how you made the jig. (how you made the radius).
Really wonderful series of very informative videos. A true master.
wonderful video, so well explained, thank you
Hello.. thank you very much for your wonderful lesson.. i have a dream of a small workshop at home.. i learn a lot from you. Thanks.
Hi Mr. Requena. Very good video and explanation. Did you ever try to install the bridge on the top right after you finished the bracing? Wouldn't be easier to clamp it and assess the work to make sure is done correctly? Think about the comfort and easiness of doing it. You can have a hole the size of the bridge in the middle of the Solera. It will not be in your way when you glue the top and the back to the sides. That will eliminate all the problems trying to glue the bridge using clamps through the soundhole. Just a thought.
No, that approach won’t work as there are other things to take into consideration. This is not the right platform to be able to explain why, but all these things are explained in my course.
@@redkitekk I understand, thank you.
I spent time in a Piano Rebuilder's Workshop where he created a Piano Soundboard GoBar platform out of 5/4" Mahogany boards large enough for full size Grand Piano (D size) Soundboards. He made a coorespondind Router Sled to cut the necessary Radius depth needed for the Piano Bridge to create the dome of the needed souundboard 'Downbearing' from the Piano Strings. Making a Radius Dish for Guitars is vastly easier than this Monstrosity
Thank you Mr Pablo. Very, very usefull. (and interesting too :)
Thanks Pablo , i building 3 first guitar and follow your way step and step. Verry helpful for me. I have a question about the lower bout hamonic bar. My Friend send me the Hermann Hauser III guitar for repair , the soundboad almost flat and i verry sure he make the lower bout hamonic bar in flat. I think the dom of the soundboad to constitute because brigger curve.
thank you mr Pablo greatinfo to me
you are welcome.
Excuse my ignorance. But, why does a classical guitar have a domed soundboard. Thanks.
Excellent! You seem to have 3 fields mastered...luthier, teacher, and linguist. Your English is 10 times better than the president of the U.S! Do you glue the soundhole reinforcement and bridge patch in the dish?
Hi, Thanks for your comments ....... Yes, I glue them in the dish, that way the soundboard will start taking the arch. I glue all the components of the soundboard on the dish except for the two top trasversal bars above the sound hole, they are done on a flat board.
You are my master
Hello, Pablo! You have a dome on the sound board. Can you show how you make a domed bridge mating surface?
Hi Billy, If you go to my course website you will find all this info in chapter 23 about how to make the bridge. the website is www.onlineguitarmakingcourse.com
Thank you.
Great video which explains the process well. I notice that you don’t shape the bottom of the fan struts to match the contour of the dish. I have been doing this, but having seen your video is there in disadvantage in your view with not contouring the bottom of the strut? Thanks again Pablo !!
Hi Paul,
I have done it the way you described in the past, but I have to say that it is a lot of more work for not much of a difference on the results, so for me it works better glueing the struts without shaping the bottom. I would suggest that you try it for yourself and draw your own conclusions.
Great thanks Pablo-I will definitely take your advice
Hi Pablo, Thanks a lot for your great videos ! However, I don't understand the measurement. I have made a simulation on a 3D software. When I take a 25 feet radius (7620 mm), the depth for the diameter of 530 mm is 9,227 mm. To have 6 mm depth you should have a radius dish with a diameter of 430 mm or a 11,7 m radius. Are you Ok with these ?
With my 25 feet radius dish 530 mm in diameter the deepest point is about 5.5 mm
@@redkitekk Thanks a lot for your answer. I'm sorry, I made a mistake. In my simulation, I took a diameter of 25 feet instead of a radius of 25 feet. Best regards.
Thanks Pablo. Great video as usual. How do you carve the dome itself? Do you use a router along a diameter template?
Buenas tardes Pablo, estos videos son excelentes para alguien al que le guste el mundo de la guitarra, tengo una pregunta que hacerte pues mi ingles es rudimentario, me ha quedado claro que la barra trasversal central tiene el radio de 25 pies por la parte que pega a la tapa pero ¿ el refuerzo transversal bajo el puente y las varetas del abanico también llevan dicho radio o son planas? Gracias y enhorabuena por los videos.
- inuxabi la única barra que necesita el arco es la que tú has mencionado, la transversal que está justo debajo de la boca, las demás son rectas. Las del abanico son muy flexibles por lo que se adaptan a la curva muy fácilmente.
Pablo, thank you for a clear and detailed explanation. If the sagitta is .235" in the center of the dish, what do you recommend as the sagitta for the back. I understand the front and back need to be different so as not to cancel out each other. Thank you for your reply.
Robert Semans I use the same arch for the front and the back.
I know there are different lines of thought in this matter, for me there is no problem in using the same arch.
Also, just in case you are interested I have recently launched a complete guitar making course where you can learn in detail about how to build your own classical guitar, you can find it on www.onlineguitarmakingcourse.com
When you put a dome in the top, then the edges of the soundboard are no longer in a flat plane. So when you put the top in the solera, how do you make the straight sides fit all around the edge of the top?
excellent question
@@mypronounismaster4450 And it also occurred to me that the peones cannot be straight (90°) angled either. So how do you match up the angles between the domed top and the sides+peones
@@jackbombeeck4958 For the sides to match the curved top you put sandpaper in the dish and then sand the sides to the shape of the dish.
Might not be how this guy does it, but it's the way I've seen others do it.
Hi Pablo do you ever shave or scallop your bracings? Or would that be too much pressure on your soundboard?
Buenos días, te escribo desde Granada, perdona pero mi inglés es muy básico.
He leído los comentarios pero no los entiendo, si das una profundidad de 6 mm al molde para hacer la tapa, ¿cómo la haces coincidir luego con la solera de montaje? ¿por qué no das la curva directamente en la solera?
Un saludo y muchas gracias por tu tiempo
Hola,
Depende del tipo de solera que tengas. Con las que yo tengo me funciona bien este sistema, pero si tu tienes una solera de montaje que tiene el arco exacto de la tapa, entonces si podrías utilizarla para pegar las barras.
Si tienes alguna duda puedes llamarme por teléfono, mi teléfono lo tienes en mi pagina web,
Un saludo,
Thank you Pablo for the detailed explanation.
I was wondering if this could be used for a flamenco guitar as well?
Sure, you do it exactly in the same way.
Also if you are interested I have a complete guitar making course available on line when I teach step by step how to build a classical guitar and I also have a video on this channel explaining how to adjust the course to be able to build a flamenco guitar.
You can find the course on www.onlineguitarmakingcourse.com
Thank you for your reply. I will definitely chek out the web link!
Pablo buenas como as hecho la solera,para pegar las varetas,gracias y un saludo
Hola Fernando, es un proceso un poco complicado para poder explicarlo aquí, pero yo te recomendaría que lo comprases ya hecho. En este enlace lo tienes. shop.rall-online.net/epages/61511639.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61511639/Products/19170008
Pablo, thanks so much for your videos.Pablo what size of spring did you use in your home built rods. They look as good as the Chinese curtain rods and more economical gauge and where did you purchase 30 of the same size small springs?Thank you again for your generosity of sharing your knowledge with us.cheersBernard Walsh
Hi Bernard, the spring is a compression spring of 8 mm in diameter and 50mm long, I bought them on eBay long time ago so I don't have the contact anymore, but I am sure there are many on lone to choose from.
Pablo, thanks so much for your videos!
Am I correct in understanding that if one's solera is contoured correctly that a person could use that as well as a dish to create the curve in a soundboard?
Cheers!
Yes, that's right.
Of course, that's how guitars were made in the old days, the use of a dish is a much more recent practice to be able to obtain the arch while your solera might be in use.
Pablo, the spring loaded curtain rods are available on e bay usa for 1.27 us $$ from chinese vendors
Thanks for the info
heyy could you send me a link please?
Another great video. Much appreciated, Pablo. One observation: The way you brace the top in that disk, the position of the bridge, hence the saddle is not on top of the dome. Is the bridge located on the slope of the top? Thank you again
qvu100 , the soundboard is only domed in the lower area so the bridge and the saddle are more or less on the top of the arch. The dome is also very subtle so even if the bridge wasn’t right in the middle of the arch it wouldn’t make any difference.
Dear Pablo, Thanks a lot for your nice work. I have learned a lot with your videos. But what kind of glue do you use ?
Jean Marie Raymond I normally use Titebond original, but you can also use animal glue.
Also, just in case you are interested I have a new series of videos out for sale on www.onlineguitarmakingcourse.com
Thank you for sharing this process - how do you shape the braces over the bridge patch so neatly?
I use a cork block shaped with a similar arch to the bridge plate and I stick a piece of sandpaper to it....also with a bit of patience!!
Hi Pablo hope you're all well at this time. I'm on my 3rd build but never built with a cedar top for a classical before. All my wood is from Madinter as recommended by yourself. My question is what thickness do you recommend for the top or is it just down to feel and ear ? Thanks
Hi Dave, cedar is a softer timber than spruce so normally you would need to make a slightly thicker soundboard but bare in mind that you still need to find that balance between stiffness and tone. Sorry I can’t give you a specific thickness, you would need to remove material until you get a good sustained tone when you tap the soundboard.
I normally find that at a range between 2.9 to 2,4 mm depending on the board I am using.
I hope this helps
@@redkitekk thanks so much for your quick response. I really appreciate it and all your uploads 👍🎼
Hi pablo, do you use the 25' radius dome also for a flamenca?
Yes, I use the same for both classical and flamenco guitars
@@redkitekk Thanks! Nicholas Economou says hi!
Hi Pablo,
I have another question because I saw your video on the different types of solera molds.
How do you know if the radius and the depth of your dome on which you will make your table will coincide withe the solera on which you will assemble the guitar.
then, if I use a radius of 25 feet and a depth of about 6 mm, will a solera hollow between 2.5 and 3 mm be adapted?
Thank you Pablo
Hi Gilles, bare in mind that if you have a 6mm gap over a 530mm diameter dish, the width of the lower bout of the guitar is about 380mm, so the depth of the arch would be around about 3mm.
On the other hand, what I do to make sure that the shape of my solera is not going to interfere with the dome of the soundboard is to make the depth of the dome area about 6mm deep.
Hope that helps
yes it helps me. Thank you Pablo, for your explanations
Hello mr Pablo!perfect video! I have almost a dish radius 30...I can use that for the dome or I must use a a 25 radius dish?thanks..
Of course, you can use a 30 feet radius dish, but bare in mind that when you arch the soundboard it has a tendency to relax and flatten slightly so you need to check that it isn’t going to end up being flat. For that reason It would be safer to use a 25 feet radius dish
@@redkitekk suppose if I use a radius dish 15 feet it would be enormous...
Γρηγορης Μαυρακης , I wouldn’t recommend 15. I think 25 feet radius is the best arch.
Hi Pablo, I used a radius calculator to find the height of the arc in the middle and at an arc length of 530mm for a 25ft radius it gives me an arc height of 4.6mm (not 6mm). Can I just check your work board was 530mm and if so, how come I am getting a different height please? Thanks.
Hi astrobooder , I have checked with my dish and it is 530 mm diameter but the gap is 5 mm instead of 6. Sorry, I didn’t measured it very accurately when I made the video and you are right that the gap is closer to 4.6 as you calculated.
Thanks Pablo.
Hello Pablo,
I did not understand some of the measures
6 mm depth ok? and what diameter?
Thank you for your answer
and for your videos
gilles
Hi Gilles,
Yes, the depth is about 6mm, and the diameter of the dish I use is 530 mm. The radius arch is 25 feet radius. About 7.6 metres.
thank you very much Pablo
Hi Pablo,
I love your videos!
Question about the dome on the soundboard... what part of the soundboard is the apex or the highest(deepest) part of the dome located?
Based on the video, assuming the deppest part of the dome on the board is in the center... the apex of the dome would be near the top of the braces closest to the soundhole. Am I correct?
I always thought the center of the dome is on the bridge part. Please explain.
Gracias!
It is difficult to establish accurately which one is the highest point of the soundboard, but it would be as you mentioned between the bridge position and the lower harmonic bar. This doesn't have to be the only way of doing it, once I have the dome established on the soundboard and all assembled on the guitar, I fit the bridge in place and it has always worked for me. Try it like this and see if it works for you.
Thanks for the reply!
Pablo, I have a question about the amount of 'spring-back' that might occur. I understand that the 530mm dish with 6mm dome will give about 3mm high dome on the sound board, but I have found so far that once I remove the soundboard from the jig the actual dome height 'springs back' to about 1.5mm. Should I make the dish deeper to allow for the spring back, or am I doing something else wrong?Thanks - Mitch
Hi Mitch,
It is not unusual to have some spring back, however, if the humidity is constant in your workshop your soundboard should stay pretty stable. Perhaps this is something you can keep an eye on. For example, if you glue your struts, and especially the lower harmonic bar at a humidity of 5o%, if the humidity goes down just to 45 soon after glueing, you will find you you loose a lot of the arch. However, if you wait until your worship is at its lowest humidity you will find that the arches you make on the soundboard and back stay properly.
In any case, if you loose a little bit of the arch, you always can do the final adjustments when you work the fingerboard to get the right set up.
I hope this helps.
Pablo
thank you Pablo - I did think about the humidity when I was gluing the back and sides on - but I have no idea what it was when I glued the braces - but I will next time!!! I have watched all your videos and enjoyed them very much - it is a long way from Scotland but one of your courses if high n my list of thing to do.Mitch
Hi Pablo, I used a radius calculator to find the height of the arc in the middle and at an arc length of 530mm for a 25ft radius it gives me an arc height of 4.6mm. Can I just check you work board was 530mm and if so, how come I am getting a different height please?
Hi Pablo, great videos! I wondered where you brought your spring loaded rods from in Europe?
tk1049 I bought them in a shop in Malaga. I am sure they are available on line.
They are easy to buy on Amazon. The best deal I have seen is pack of 6 for £10.
Hi Pablo,
Is the bridge plate glued on the while using the radius dish like the braces?
Yes, you glue it on with the soundboard on the dish otherwise your soundboard would be flat.
@@redkitekk thank you so much!
I just wanted to be absolutely sure before I started gluing
Hi Pablo. thanks for your videos. they are very helpful. My question is: Why a 25 feet radius? why did you choice this specific radius?
cheers!
25 feet , or 7.6m is the arch that you will find in most Spanish guitars. This practice started a long time ago, and it is considered an importan feature on a Spanish guitar.
This is for acoustic and structural reasons and perhaps too much of a subject to try to explain here.
@@redkitekk Humm! interesting. I'm doing my classical guitar and following all your steps. (thanks for your videos). So, what radius use you for your classical guitars? I saw some luthiers using 28 ft. others 40 ft. thanks
Marcelo Ferreira I use 25 feet for both the front and the back
@@redkitekk Thanks Pablo.
Hola Pablo, ¡me gustan mucho tus videos! , tenia una duda, teniendo en cuenta que usas estas varetas de 3,5 por 4 mas o menos, ¿en que grosor dejas tú la tapa de abeto?
Muchas gracias
Hola, depende de la dureza que tenga la tapa, no siempre es el mismo grosor pero suelo dejarlo alrededor de 2,5 mm
Your "pressing jig" is called a "go-bar deck". Most luthiers just use wood, carbon fiber or plastic rods and just bend them in place.
where i can buy this bars?? May i a adress on LINE?
Albanito Asevedo , I bought them in a local hardware store, you can find them in amazon, look for spring loaded adjustable curtains rod, you will find them in different lengths.
Que pena que lo hayas grabado en inglés.