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  • Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
  • This video describes the basic properties and specifications for directional couplers, and shows their basic operation on an oscilloscope. Typical applications are discussed, along with a practical example showing how to sweep the VSWR, or Return Loss, of an antenna using a directional coupler and a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator. The resulting return loss measurement is compared to the SWR measured on an MFJ-259B antenna analyzer.
    Datasheet for the directional coupler used in this video:
    www.minicircuits.com/pdfs/ZFDC...
    My video on the basics of Tracking Generators:
    • #62: Basics of Trackin...
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Комментарии • 203

  • @AndreasSpiess
    @AndreasSpiess 8 лет назад +82

    I just got a directional coupler, because of this video and tried it out with a lot of success. I am a big fan and watched a lot of your videos. They are extremely good, not trivial, but very understandable. In my youth I was a ham operator. In these days the frequencies and the budgets were much lower than now. I enjoy the revival of my "RF hobby" (also with my first spectrum analyzer), now paired with microcontrollers.
    Thank you very much for your effort to put your knowledge online!

    • @picwiz2
      @picwiz2 3 года назад

      ...and it is a pleasure for me to meet the two youtubers favorite by me on the same page !!! Great!

    • @Halerno
      @Halerno 3 года назад

      @@picwiz2 same to me ;-)

  • @wb7ond
    @wb7ond 3 месяца назад +2

    A suggestion for a video might be the difference between a directional coupler and a return loss bridge... The insertion loss for a bridge seems to be much higher... Enjoy your videos, very very informative...

  • @davidleonard1540
    @davidleonard1540 10 лет назад +7

    Alan, can't thank you enough for all your videos and expertise. You inspire many to dig deeper into the technical aspects of radio and electronics. Thanks again!

  • @das250250
    @das250250 7 лет назад +2

    I could watch these many times over as they have great density of. Information. Ty for taking time to do these clear tutorials as always .

  • @DSegal1122
    @DSegal1122 5 лет назад +5

    Alan, This is the first video of yours I watched and you are an amazing instructor. I sincerely thank you for taking the time to explain directional couplers to me!

  • @mikeburch2998
    @mikeburch2998 3 года назад

    Thank you so much Alan for teaching us this. I used a directional coupler tonight to look at a chinese fpv antenna and found out it wasn't exactly what I thought it was. All thanks to you! Mike K8MB.

  • @andr27
    @andr27 7 лет назад +19

    this is most professional channel about electronics in educational aspect on yt. Thank you Alan

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  7 лет назад +3

      Thank you, I'm glad you enjoy it!

  • @michaelwilliamsk9qho784
    @michaelwilliamsk9qho784 8 лет назад +1

    Have been home brewing some amateur osc/amps and an antenna for 1.269 GHz. I have the same type coupler. Your video is a great help. I am using attenuators and crystal detector to get my measurements. Great video!

  • @vk3dgn
    @vk3dgn 8 лет назад

    thanks for the video - it's the best description of the operation of a directional coupler I've found.

  • @emwavemhz
    @emwavemhz 5 лет назад +1

    I'm glad you did this video. I recently purchased a spectrum analyzer with a tracking generator. I wanted to look at S11 and VSWR with it and there is a directional coupler made for this analyzer that cost around $700.00. However, that Mini Circuits directional coupler does the same thing for under $100.00 fantastic! I really enjoy your video's lots of good information. Thanks!

  • @MrBanzoid
    @MrBanzoid 3 года назад

    Thanks for your informative and educational videos. It's good to know how and why something works, and not just what it does.

  • @blackpaw369
    @blackpaw369 6 лет назад

    I learn something new every time I watch this video and I’ve watched it many times 🤓 thank you

  • @mohamedunknown871
    @mohamedunknown871 11 месяцев назад +1

    I am impressed and this helped me greatly figure out how to measure the VSWR on one of my antennas at work.

  • @calebizsol
    @calebizsol 3 года назад

    Dip the plate, lower the current. Efficiency of a tube with a directional coupler used as a sample port. Used them with gridded traveling wave tubes as well. Great channel you have!!

  • @norbs
    @norbs 10 лет назад

    Really good video, I was about to ask you to make a video about directional coupler and boom here is it. Thank you very much.

  • @DrTune
    @DrTune 7 лет назад

    Terrific video - that was _exactly_ what I wanted to know, very clearly demonstrated. Many thanks.

  • @user-vc2nr4dc7n
    @user-vc2nr4dc7n 8 лет назад +1

    Great video! Thanks for providing this good (and well presented) info. Cleared up a few things for me. 73s!

  • @ehopkins13
    @ehopkins13 10 лет назад +1

    At my former job I always had access to a network analyzer for these type of measurements. It is funny that I didn't know there was a such thing as a tracking generator for a spectrum analyzer as a 'lower tech' way to measure a coupler's response. Very nice tutorial, I enjoy watching them.

  • @dave_dennis
    @dave_dennis 7 лет назад +2

    Wow! Just the explication I've been looking for for a very long time. Thanks!!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  7 лет назад +1

      Glad it helped you out!

  • @arzz11
    @arzz11 5 лет назад +2

    I'm learning so many things from your channel.. Thank you very much... 👍👍👍

  • @davideisenberger6197
    @davideisenberger6197 7 лет назад

    Thank you for taking your time to make this video! I learned so
    Much. I recently purchased a Rigol DSA815 TG and a ZFDC 20-4 coupler. I was confused on using the coupler till you cleared it up! 73's David. K8KEM

  • @DucatiMTS1200
    @DucatiMTS1200 4 года назад

    That was very educational and professionally presented sir. Thank you.

  • @AppliedScience
    @AppliedScience 10 лет назад +31

    Good stuff!

  • @marko99butter
    @marko99butter 8 лет назад +1

    this was very clear. thanks. I will give this a go building my new antenna

  • @aerorcuav
    @aerorcuav 6 лет назад

    Great explanations​ !! I just learned something from you sir.Thanks.

  • @xxmrrickxx
    @xxmrrickxx 10 месяцев назад +1

    Wonderful tutorial! Thanks for posting.

  • @GeorgeWMays
    @GeorgeWMays 4 года назад

    Excellent video. Thank you very much for sharing it. Truly useful information.

  • @mansourahmadi5040
    @mansourahmadi5040 Год назад +1

    Your video helped me a lot today. Thank you.

  • @bargerajendra5936
    @bargerajendra5936 2 года назад

    Excellent work and execution done

  • @DANEMSPRINGER
    @DANEMSPRINGER 4 года назад

    Absolutely great video sir!

  • @M0NMCAmateurRadioStation
    @M0NMCAmateurRadioStation 3 года назад

    Finally I understand how a coupler works. Thanks

  • @saaeewqas
    @saaeewqas 3 года назад

    Cannot thank you enough for this explanation.

  • @mohammadrezamajidimosleh7917
    @mohammadrezamajidimosleh7917 10 лет назад

    Thanks, It was great, specially when you learned all of this just in the book
    Keep going ;)

  • @Sjampster
    @Sjampster 10 лет назад

    Very interesting, great video. Thanks!

  • @carriersignal
    @carriersignal 9 лет назад

    Very well explained as usual Thanks!

  • @johnwoods8309
    @johnwoods8309 8 лет назад

    Thanks, very helpful video well presented.

  • @ChristianRodriguez-xb2fy
    @ChristianRodriguez-xb2fy 4 года назад

    Thank you!!!! This was fun to watch. 73!

  • @davideisenberger6197
    @davideisenberger6197 7 лет назад

    Thank you very much for taking your time to make this video! It's appreciated 73's David. K8KEM

  • @mohammadalhamd4021
    @mohammadalhamd4021 5 лет назад

    very clearly explain for a directional coupler
    thanks

  • @butchmcbride6974
    @butchmcbride6974 5 лет назад

    Excellent tutorial thank you

  • @DanielRowe
    @DanielRowe 10 лет назад +1

    Very interesting, thank you.

  •  3 года назад

    Thank you by this clear explanation !

  • @martinschidozieezuma6741
    @martinschidozieezuma6741 Год назад +1

    Great video. Thank you so much

  • @rodwall2335
    @rodwall2335 10 лет назад

    A good video. Interesting is that the waveform voltage on channel 1 increased when the load was increased from 50 ohm to 1 meg ohm. And the power transferred was then less than with the 50 ohm load even though the waveform voltage increased. If you known what the increased voltage was across the 1 Mohm load, you could compare the transferred power to when the load was 50ohm.

  • @pyrokinetikrlz
    @pyrokinetikrlz 5 лет назад

    Great video!!!!

  • @kd5ozy
    @kd5ozy 5 лет назад

    I have the same mini circuits directionaql coupler that you have there and an eagle return loss bridge. I bought one of those el cheapo green directional couplers off ebay and I was very surprised at how well it performs

  • @AlexandrGubanov
    @AlexandrGubanov 3 года назад

    Very understandable. Thank you!

  • @marko99butter
    @marko99butter 8 лет назад

    gave it a try on a 2M Jpole type antenna, worked great. I'm confused about return loss bridges and when and why to use them over a directional coupler.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 лет назад

      +Mark Butterworth Return loss bridges output a DC voltage in proportion to an impedance mismatch, while directional couplers output a sample of the RF energy flowing in a chosen direction. Either one can be used to characterize the mismatch of an antenna system - it all depends on how you want to process/measure the reflected signal.

  • @Frisky0563
    @Frisky0563 6 лет назад

    very nice video!

  • @georgeetherege8347
    @georgeetherege8347 Год назад

    I got an EE degree 50 years ago and at some point the prof zipped through how a directional coupler works. I didn't understand it but I still managed to use couplers and hybrids through a career. NOW I'm retired and I don't need the devices but I want to learn how they actually work. Can't seem to find an explanation. I guess everybody just uses them. But if you look at a coupler logically, it's like a bumblebee-- bumblebees are not supposed to be able to fly. Likewise for the directional coupler--can't fly and shouldn't divide out the forward and backward signals. They are too small. If you stick a stake in a creek or river, it can tell you the level of the water -- analogous to showing the vector sum of the voltage at a point on a transmission line. You have no way of knowing the direction in which the water is flowing. The same should be true of a "directional" coupler. At microwave frequencies maybe there is room for more "direction finding" components. But a classical directional coupler for a 7 MHz sine wave is usually less than 6 inches wide--at 7 MHz a quarter wavelength is about 40 feet---CAN'T WORK. It's a bumblebee. I'm still searching for an explanation. For now, I treat directional couplers like UFOs--some people say they've seem them--personally I haven't. Don't believe in them myself.

  • @alialbishi8659
    @alialbishi8659 2 года назад

    Amazing! Many thanks!

  • @alperenalperen2458
    @alperenalperen2458 8 лет назад

    great video :D

  • @amikhimji
    @amikhimji 10 лет назад

    Great video thanks

  • @christopherramirez6278
    @christopherramirez6278 5 лет назад

    Thank your for this video... as a junior RF engineer this was informative. Maybe some one has already asked but can the coupled port be used to inject a sample signal? How would that work?

  • @johnbecich9540
    @johnbecich9540 7 лет назад

    Thanks for the sensational tutorial. I'm a bit lost @ 6:20 however. @ 5:30 you reversed the input and output; i.e., you put the signal into the output port of the device, and connected o-scope channel 1 to the input port of the device, deliberately, to prove a point that the coupled port is profoundly isolated from signals that ENTER (generally inappropriately) at the output port. Then you start another discussion @ 6:20 without clarifying whether or not you restored the original connections; or if you left intact the reversal.
    OK OK... I get it. @ 10 (when you're using the spectrum analyzer) it's obvious you're still using the directional coupler backwards.
    Hey, I learn something every day.
    This was really cool. Thanks again.

    • @zanedelorean9740
      @zanedelorean9740 7 лет назад

      These devices are easily faked at production, I should know having 20 years RF inspection background, a magnet put on the unit will simulate max or min testing, production route card dating can be faked for endurance testing, good xrays swapped for bad, vibration testing done by running off plots only without vibrating the device, I could go on & on. I earned a wage for 20 years by thinking up random numbers in a range every day for microwave devices. lol just watching that video it reminded me of when we had to demonstate isolators & circulators working on an analyser , one customer took one look at the settings & took off all the offsets which were programmed into it to make it look like the devices were compliant (facepalm)

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  7 лет назад

      Glad you "got it". Sorry if it was a confusing road...

  • @naturesbloom1274
    @naturesbloom1274 4 года назад

    Very very useful vedeo .thanks keep it up

  • @baghdadiabdellatif1581
    @baghdadiabdellatif1581 3 года назад

    Than you. In Algeria, this informations is confidential and monopolistic

  • @kunalnate
    @kunalnate 8 лет назад

    Awesome! Thank you.

  • @neilsheldon8355
    @neilsheldon8355 7 лет назад

    Hi Allen ... great info. Could you perhaps do a video on the MFJ analyser as to how to properly calibrate it?
    Thank you & 73,
    Neil,
    K7WK

  • @rubbersideup
    @rubbersideup 9 лет назад

    wow great video thank you!

  • @lorimeyers3839
    @lorimeyers3839 Год назад

    Yep, coupled ports are used to monitor antennas along the path. Basically the load is coupled pre and post wherever it goes next.

  • @JohnRaschedian
    @JohnRaschedian 5 лет назад

    Thank you sir!

  • @MrAtomicLlama
    @MrAtomicLlama 9 лет назад

    Great video! This is the second time I watched it, and can't tell you how much I appreciate the work you do in producing these. Very helpful to us folks returning to the hobby! I do have a question. Rigol sells a "SWR Measuring Kit" for their spec analyzer that pretty much looks like one of these couplers and a few fittings stuffed into a fancy box (with matching price). Is that all it is? It looks like there might be software also, but I'm guessing that it's just minor stuff - say, calibration data and a few automation procedures - for whatever coupler they used. What do you think? Thanks again!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  9 лет назад

      It is likely a directional coupler and software.

  • @Nikkuuu69
    @Nikkuuu69 8 лет назад

    Thanks for this video, I recently got a Rigol DSA-815TG and also a directional coupler, but I have a lot of problems with ripples in my return loss plots. I tried to connect a 6dB or 10dB pad between the TG and the SWR bridge, but the ripples keep persisting. I've tried using my 10 meter long coax for HF, and also a good quality 1 meter long SMA cable, but the ripples are still noticeable. However, when using a short piece of SMA cable (15cm or so) the ripples are almost completely gone. Would connecting an attenuator between the SWR bridge and the spectrum analyzer input achieve anything? I'm waiting for some N to SMA adapters so those should come in tomorrow, I can't try it out yet. Thanks again!

  • @Arijit_VU3ICT
    @Arijit_VU3ICT 2 года назад

    Great great great .. thank you sir .

  • @AECRADIO1
    @AECRADIO1 5 лет назад

    I have been 'standardized' by using a 1dB pad for the impedance leveling.

  • @hassantj5775
    @hassantj5775 3 года назад

    Excellent.

  • @markbell9742
    @markbell9742 10 лет назад

    “Hope you learned something”. You bet. Thanks Alan, Cheers, Mark

  • @fernandolopez8191
    @fernandolopez8191 Год назад +1

    Can’t say how many times ive watched this video. Can i add that at the moment you are seeing reflected signals that they may also be out of phase at 7:39 ?

  • @theironwoodtable
    @theironwoodtable 5 лет назад

    I ran this experiment on a 1.27 GHz antenna using a signal generator, spectrum analzyer and compared 2 directional couplers. 1 Mini-Circuits like in the video and a Chinese model. The results were significantly different. Mini-Circuits return loss was 18.51 dB Chinese model was 42.41 dB with a much narrower trough. The frequency also shifted 84MHz. Since I don't have a tracking gen, I sweep the frequency range and use "Max Hold" until the screen fills in and use that as the '0' reference. I have repeated this experiment multiple times in different frequency ranges with similar results. Any Idea why the results would be this different between 2 couplers?

  • @adonikam1
    @adonikam1 2 года назад

    Awesome Thank you 😊

  • @fliptrontube
    @fliptrontube 10 лет назад +12

    At 4:23 you refer to 20 dB being "1/10th the power", but isn't it 1/10th the voltage, and 1/100th the power?
    I found this video very informative, and a great explanation. If the mood comes to you, I would like a video that explains a few of the ways couplers work.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  10 лет назад +11

      Ack! I hate when that happens! Of course, you're right. I've added an annotation to correct my mis-spoken narration.

    • @jimmyc451
      @jimmyc451 5 лет назад +1

      gets tricky when you speak volts and dbm

    • @johnthehammer7702
      @johnthehammer7702 5 лет назад

      @@w2aew 20 db down on power is 1/10 of voltage since "P-dbm = 20 * log(V-mpvv) - 56". so 1/10 of voltage is 20 db down. I did this calculation on my video: ruclips.net/video/_1R9fDVkjwk/видео.html

    • @johnthehammer7702
      @johnthehammer7702 5 лет назад

      20 db down on power is 1/10 of voltage since "P-dbm = 20 * log(V-mpvv) - 56". so 1/10 of voltage is 20 db down. I did this calculation on my video: ruclips.net/video/_1R9fDVkjwk/видео.html

  • @markfarris2620
    @markfarris2620 4 года назад

    So could this be used with an rf probe on the reflected side to isolate an impedance mismatch in a circuit?

  • @Tom-dn5de
    @Tom-dn5de 2 года назад

    Thank you, sir, I have 2 questions.
    1. Can I connect an RF signal generator instead of an Antenna at 9:37 to measure the output impedance of the RF signal generator?
    2. Can you explain the difference between VWSR Bridges & Directional Couplers?
    If you have a chance, could you explain them to me?

  • @pokojnitozo2360
    @pokojnitozo2360 10 лет назад

    Hi,
    I didn't know for directional couplers. I'm learning basic of RF and transmission lines...
    I tried to create directional coupler of piece of cable. Terminated output, give me 0 on coupled output. When output is open, coupled signal and signal from source are in phase, which is expected, but when I short output, signals are about 90 degrees out of phase. Why 90? I expected 180. Is it my setup problem or I didn't understood.
    Thanks

  • @jjssbailey
    @jjssbailey 6 лет назад

    I have a directional coupler with no data sheet. What test can I perform to determine its frequency range. I have a 1-4ghz sweep generator and a 2.4-2.5ghz spectrum analyzer. Ports are in, out, -30db, and ISO? Made by RF Power. SDC-182-202-R1-30

  • @07kandarp
    @07kandarp 7 лет назад

    Thanks a lot for this video w2aew. Learnt a lot from it. Directional coupler is a neat device. Very nicely explained. The only thing a little unclear @10:00 is that we are viewing the coupled port correct?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  7 лет назад

      Yes, the analyzer is measuring the coupled port which is sampling the signal being returned from the antenna.

  • @warplanner8852
    @warplanner8852 10 лет назад +1

    Alan,
    A very informative video per usual but -- and forgive me if I sound grumpy -- it would be great if you could do more stuff for us proles who limp along with a test equipment budget several magnitudes less than yours. For example, your time domain refectometry stuff was a tour de force and scintillating because it had "everyham" written all over it.
    Most of us are lucky if we have An old 465 and an AN/URM-25D and some grotty RG-8X.
    Respectfully,
    Willie, the Grouch.

    • @alanwolke6253
      @alanwolke6253 10 лет назад

      Understood Will. Of course you could manually sweep the return loss with a directional coupler and a scope and signal generator. But, I wanted to focus more on the coupler rather than the manual process with this video. So some videos will involve more extensive equipment, some won't. Thanks for watching, and for your comments.

    • @warplanner3258
      @warplanner3258 10 лет назад +2

      *****
      I completely understand. Thank you for your response. I think I need to get a grip and realize that you are doing this on your own time, out of the kindness of your heart, and I am essentially getting this content for free.
      Was having a bad hair day. Please keep up the good work!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  10 лет назад +2

      William Phinizy No problem Will! I am lucky that I have access to some really cool tools due to my job. Hopefully I'm striking a good balance between my hobbyist and professional viewers. Thanks again for watching!

  • @jamesfowler2202
    @jamesfowler2202 2 года назад

    Firstly, you are a great instructor. Being licensed in 1953 as W5WTN, a lot has changed. I wonder if you are familiar with the Rogol SA. I have the 2 Ghz version and when I try to use the normalization function, the soft key is grayed out. The instructions state to change the settings to Dbm, which I did. No cigar. If you have any suggestions, please let me know.
    Keep up the good work.
    Best 73's Eddy W5WTN

  • @debamalya1111
    @debamalya1111 8 лет назад

    Excellent video. I have a question... if I use a basic and inexpensive antenna tuner like RigExpert AA-600 to observe the tuning dip, will that be as good as the spectrum analyzer method you have used?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 лет назад

      +Debamalya Banerjee Yes, an analyzer like this can illustrate the return loss just as well as the spectrum analyzer.

  • @SLCompulsion
    @SLCompulsion 3 года назад

    Thank you for another great video. At about 6:40, you switch the load from 50ohm to 1M ohm and comment that almost all the power is now reflected. On the scope, indeed I see both the yellow voltage trace and the yellow rms voltage readout go from around 225V to 407mV, the result of the two signals adding together. FB. And I can see the blue trace showing the coupled reflected signal.
    My questions: Why is the coupled signal phase shifted (about 45degrees), why isn’t the main line voltage shifted some too?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  3 года назад

      The main line isn't shifted, because the scope is triggering on that line (so it always lines up in the same place on the screen). The phase shift of the reflected signal in this case is simply due to the propagation delay back and forth through the coax.

  • @danield6773
    @danield6773 6 лет назад

    Thanks for video Alan, great as always... I am new to RF stuff and recently have bought a spectrum analyzer with a TG, also built home brew directional coupler and trying to figure out how it works.
    My question is what steps should i take in order to determent what is capable for ?
    In other words if you have an unknown directional coupler how would you determent its characteristics or verify with a datasheet if happens to know the part number? What would you look for to verify that it is performing as stated or it is defective, also its frequency range, all by using a spectrum analyzer with TG ?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  6 лет назад

      You can start by checking the forward and reverse coupling characteristics. Connect the TG to the RF input, connect known good broadband 50 ohm terminations to the RF output and the REV port on the coupler, and then connect the FWD port to the SA and sweep it. You should see a relatively flat response at the rated coupling ratio (10dB down, 20dB down, etc.). Then, reverse the FWD and REV connections and sweep again. With a good termination on the RF out, you should have very little reflected power so the REV output should be very low. Then, remove the 50 ohm termination from the RF output, and sweep the REV again, this time you should see a response similar to the FWD you saw earlier.

  • @luismirandakunert3475
    @luismirandakunert3475 4 года назад

    What a Both great and useful Video, congrats!!
    I just have one question what could i say between use Directinal Coupler and a Bridge to measure SWR for an antenna?
    Thanks

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  4 года назад +1

      You can leave a directional coupler in place when operating, but you can't do that with a bridge.

    • @luismirandakunert3475
      @luismirandakunert3475 4 года назад

      @@w2aew Now, I got it
      Thanks a lot!!

  • @Kilohercas
    @Kilohercas 10 лет назад +1

    why you don't using MDO3104 spectrum analyzer ?
    Noise function will not work for this measurement ?

    • @alanwolke6253
      @alanwolke6253 10 лет назад

      Yes, I could've used the noise generator and spectrum analyzer in the MDO and it would've worked fine. However, I showed this technique to show the filter responses in the SDR radios and figured that viewers like yourself would recognize that this would be an alternative way to "sweep" the antenna.

  • @jimhollister50
    @jimhollister50 8 лет назад

    Nice video. I'm a new HAM and I'd like to characterize the 20m half-wave dipole antenna I recently installed in my attic. Can I use this technique without generating RF interference from my antenna?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 лет назад

      +jimhollister50 Sure - any method that uses a very small amount of power would be acceptable.

  • @mainaksarkar2512
    @mainaksarkar2512 8 лет назад

    I bought a directional coupler on ebay. Coaxial dynamics model 3580. The coupled ports dont have coax connection. They have two leads on each port. You can find pictures of it in Google. My question is, what and how do I measure and how do I use that to find the rf signal strength going through the main line?
    I couldn't find any help anywhere and the seller also has no idea. I thought I would ask you. I watch your videos.Very educational. I am a new hobbyist in the RF field.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 лет назад

      It's difficult to say without any kind of a data sheet. But, since it's designed for 800 MHz and the sense ports are not coaxial, I'd expect that there's probably a diode detector behind each of the sense ports, so you'd probably see a DC voltage proportional to sensed power. Might bonded a capacitor across the terminals.

  • @adrian_sp6def
    @adrian_sp6def 2 года назад

    Is it possibile, when antenna is matched to 50ohm (checked using resistors bridge, antenna tunner and oscilloscope), that there is standing wave in antenna's feedline? (Asuming that coax is also 50ohm). I think that should not because whole system is matched so should be no reflectuons, but I am not sure if coax dimensions can introduce some reflections.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  2 года назад +1

      Ideally, if the 50 ohm coax is terminated in a 50 ohm load, there will be no standing waves. However, depending on the coax, small impedance discontinuities can be introduced by bending the coax, which can result in small reflections and small standing waves.

  • @microreniassance2929
    @microreniassance2929 2 года назад

    Great video. Very helpful. I'm interested in monitoring the SWR and forward power off of a 1000W linear amplifier. How would the design change for something like that? Or to ask this differently. Can you put the swr meter and coupler between the transmitter and the linear amp and be fairly confident that the reverse signal will not be changed appreciably by going through the Linear amp?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  2 года назад

      The reflected signal will NOT be transferred backwards through the amp. You'll have to put the directional coupler between the amp and the tuner/antenna. Here's a good application note on this: www.analog.com/en/technical-articles/log-amps-and-directional-couplers-enable-vswr-detection.html

    • @microreniassance2929
      @microreniassance2929 2 года назад

      @@w2aew Thanks for the link. Very helpful.

    • @microreniassance2929
      @microreniassance2929 2 года назад

      @@w2aew This brings me to another question, have you ever done a video on using test equipment, especially a scope, to test a receiver for dB gain or losd, notch configuration, Selectivity, etc? This may be too broad of a subject, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on basic testing of receiver health using a scope, for example. Thanks again for all of the great videos.

  • @egbertgroot2737
    @egbertgroot2737 3 года назад

    Thnx ... very useful. I just received my reflection bridge and want to check my antenna's using the VNA. My reflection bridge has IN OUT and a DUT .... i should connect the antenna to DUT and the signal output of the tracking to IN. I don't quite understand your setup.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  3 года назад

      If you have a VNA, it would already have the bridge or directional coupler built in. There shouldn't be a need for an external reflection bridge (unless it is an older VNA that specifically used external bridges/couplers).

    • @egbertgroot2737
      @egbertgroot2737 3 года назад

      @@w2aew Interesting answer ... i have a HP 4195A .... how should i connect an antenna in that case?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  3 года назад

      @@egbertgroot2737 OK, that's an older analyzer that uses an external transmission/reflection test set. A directional coupler will sample the signal going thru the coupler from IN to OUT. Since the signal you want to measure is the reflection coming back from the antenna, you would want to connect the antenna to IN and the signal source to OUT. The manual for the HP4195A can be found here: literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5950-2942.pdf?id=619880

    • @egbertgroot2737
      @egbertgroot2737 3 года назад

      @@w2aew Ah i understand! Very useful answer. I only have old equipment ;-) ..... thanks for your quick reply! Greetings from the Netherlands. Pe1JKU

  • @BenBilesBB-box
    @BenBilesBB-box 5 лет назад +1

    I would love it if you made a video on multichannel RF splitters and distribution amps ( splitter loss gain loss ) theory. I'm trying to split a single Log Periodic Dipole Array antenna for Diversity reception ( 2 x antenna ) into 4 x diversity radio mic receivers and would like to add 2 x antenna LNA's onto the antenna to boost the signal to match the db gain loss made on the splitter. There are many factors!! cable loss , splitter loss. RF amp noise per antenna. at least I'm looking at 50ohm impedance all the way ( i hope ) from antenna to receivers so hopefully no mismatch. Anyway , splitter theory and distribution amp / noise etc theory video would be so helpful. Thanks for these great videos :)

    • @BenBilesBB-box
      @BenBilesBB-box 5 лет назад +1

      should also say any ideas on low cost 50ohm LNA's with variable gain for approx 400mhz - 700mhz would be helpful. I think from watching this video I can use a sig gen to check the gain on the splitter outputs is unity from antenna output with an oscilloscope.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  5 лет назад +1

      I"ll add these topics to my long list. Suffice it to say that power is always reduced through a splitter - even for the basic reason of conservation of energy. Even considering an ideal lossless 2-way splitter, the power in each output would be half of the input. However, there is no such thing as a lossless splitter...

    • @BenBilesBB-box
      @BenBilesBB-box 5 лет назад +1

      @@w2aew Yes, it seams you get 3db loss ( half gain ) + insertion loss of say 0.4db at best ( at least on my micro circuits splitter ) so far I've learned i should place the 2 x LNA's near the antenna to compensate for the loss so that i'm not amplifying cable noise. Also finding LNA's all introduce noise! I also need to try and learn if gain is that important! As far as I can understand what is more important is signal to noise ratio? I'm thinking in a diversity setup the gains should be reasonably equal so that the receiver can switch to best receive signal strength. Thats assuming received signal strength is relative to gain? I will do some tests but I wouldn't be surprised if the LNA's don't help me in the real world with TX - RX range :) anyway , would be great if you could do some LNA gain / splitter gain compensation theory one day. Thanks a lot for all these great videos.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  5 лет назад +1

      @@BenBilesBB-box Yes, of course LNAs add noise - the amount of noise added is measured by something called the Noise Figure - something else I need to add to my long list.

  • @andrewverran3498
    @andrewverran3498 5 лет назад +2

    Brilliant....i think .if anyone can explain it you can

  • @CH_Pechiar
    @CH_Pechiar 10 лет назад +1

    Alan, great video.
    Question, how accurate do you find the MFJ to be? I see it being used by most hams, including my dad, but I am aware that numbers on an LCD don't always reflect the truth. On the other hand, if it is a tool used by most it can be considered as a standard no matter the downsides. Would it be valuable for you to make a video on the MFJ pointing out how to correctly interpret the values displayed by it? Regards, CX6BT

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  10 лет назад +8

      I've found the MJF to be accurate enough to be effective. One thing you have to be careful with is that when testing antennas, signals that are picked up by the antenna may couple into the bridge and upset the readings. I'll think about doing a few vids on the 259B in the future.

  • @sladjanavlijas295
    @sladjanavlijas295 5 лет назад

    Hi Alen. I cannot find what is mix power, that this direction coupler can handle? I mean, can I use this for monitor 40 or 50dBm with spectrum analyzer. I will connect radio -> direction coupler -> antenna, and coupling port -> 2W 30dB attenuator -> SA? I cannot find this information on minicircuits site (I have ZFDC-20-4 20db 1GHz coupler). Thanks for great videos

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  5 лет назад

      The maximum input power is listed in the datasheet. For 1-10MHz, the maximum input power is 0.5W (27dBm), and for 10-1000MHz, the maximum input power is 2W (33dBm). So, unfortunately this coupler is not suitable for 40-50dBm input. For that kind of power level, you're much better off using an RF sampler.

    • @sladjanavlijas295
      @sladjanavlijas295 5 лет назад

      @@w2aew Thank you

  • @SlowburnFoos
    @SlowburnFoos 9 лет назад

    Hey I really like this video. I am considering in buying a spectrum analyzer for tuning antennas on a PCB (chip antennas). But they can be so damn expensive! So I was wondering, would a MFJ-259B do the trick? Thanks in advance!
    What power rating on an attenuator would you recommend so that an antenna as a DUT doesn't drive the tracking generator by picking up arbitrary rf signals from the air?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  9 лет назад

      The MFJ-259B only goes up to 470MHz, which seems a little low for PCB chip antennas. But, if this is within your frequency range, this unit works pretty well. It will give you VSWR as well as impedance and phase - it just can't distinguish between positive or negative phase angle.
      It would be difficult for me to recommend an attenuation value because I don't know you're situation (how tightly coupled your antenna will be to the off-air signal, what kind of power levels you're dealing with, etc.).

  • @pranjalpaliwal490
    @pranjalpaliwal490 8 лет назад

    Hey,
    Is the output seen in the spectrum analyzer the actual s11 curve, as the output is obtained from a different port than the input? It seems to contradict the common definition of s11.

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 лет назад

      +Pranjal Paliwal A network analyzer uses a directional coupler to measure the output and reflected power at each port - so there's basically a coupler behind each port of a network analyzer.

  • @tommyoconnell1535
    @tommyoconnell1535 7 лет назад

    question ,i have zfdc 20-2000mhz, with 0dbm connected to output and in open, cpl line=-20 all good, total reflection,with perfect termination

    • @tommyoconnell1535
      @tommyoconnell1535 7 лет назад

      when i terminate with dummy load i get -45dbm thats. 25 down on an open, very good. Thing is when i connect and tune my antenna i get -55dbm, how can the antenna be better than a perfect load. cable and generator all 50 ohm

  • @Sha77180
    @Sha77180 8 лет назад

    Hi,
    I have a question. When you are testing the antenna, the signal from the tracking generator to the antenna is reflected back to it for the non-resonating frequencies. Won't this interfere with the subsequent signals sent from the tracking generator?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  8 лет назад

      +Shalini Srinivasan It can, which is why an attenuator is often included in series with the TG output. However, if the end goal is to achieve a good match (no reflection), then the point is moot because there will be no reflection at the desired point.

  • @changxu6269
    @changxu6269 10 лет назад

    Hi Alan, I have been watching your video tutorials for a little while. These are concise and well designed, I found very useful and can learn a lot from a short video from you. I'm wondering if you can have a video tutorial for IQ modulation and de-modulation. This is one area always puzzling me. If you can have a video for this, I believe it will help a lot to clear things up, just like your other videos. Thanks a lot!

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  10 лет назад

      Video(s) on IQ modulation and demodulation have been on my to do list for quite a while. I've been thinking about a couple of ways to present this information in a nice clear way. This is definitely on my "short list" for something in the future...

  • @jimmyc451
    @jimmyc451 5 лет назад

    get a dual directional coupler to measure reflected power. I have always been taught to terminate at the load, not at the source. have you heard this or think it makes a difference?

    • @w2aew
      @w2aew  5 лет назад

      Yes, of course you want the load to properly terminate the line to minimize reflections.

  • @TheRogerx3
    @TheRogerx3 10 лет назад +1

    Interesting,