As a three year veteran of The Troubles there was always one thing that puzzled me. I didn't find the answer whilst serving in Northern Ireland and I have read countless books about the Troubles. That includes books written by or about the PIRA. (Including Shane O'Doherty's book The Volunterr) The Catholics quite rightly marched for their civil rights and it was quite obvious to me that they were discriminated against, so why on Earth didn't the British Government change it? Why not give them the same rights as everyone else? I can't condone the violence that happened but I could see their point.
@@Sidney1WG it's a very simple answer. In no part of The Empire were natives ever accorded the same recognition as colonists. Empires are established for a certain group to benefit at the expense of others be it Britain in Ireland or France in Vietnam or Portugal and Belgium in Africa. And to justify that exploitation of others those others are portrayed as inferior to such an extent that the reigning group sees their colonised minions as undeserving of self-determination, economic progression and social advancement.
@@Sidney1WG No you earned and learned by yourself it's you who deserves respect and thanks, I'm sixty and played on the other team yet I never hated soldiers we have all owned blame, and been owned. Respect and regards from Ireland.
@@MrBagpipes only thing that separates Vietnam in your comment is that they kicked out two superpowers from their country! Been there before and nothing but total admiration for them considering the losses they suffered
I need some sleep iv been watching these vidz for 3 days solid and when i wake up il be watching more..from both sides perspective...love them keep them coming who ever you are❤🎉🎉🎉
'Our Revenge will be the laughter of our children ' Oglach Bobby Sands , OC Long Kesh , Hunger Striker , MP , Political Prisoner...!! Rest Well Brave Soldier Of Eire !!
Fascinating film , I too as a young man was caught up in the romance and adventure of it and I joined the British army knowing full well that I'd be going to Ireland . What I learned there and subsequently taught me that the whole thing was a tragedy from the start . All sides were as bad as each other ,all lied ,all murdered all broke whatever rules there were ,police ,army and paramilitaries . The scales started to fall from my eyes in the late 70s while I was serving there , and I've been obsessed about learning more ever since from all sources . I'm very thankful that none of my three sons joined up and as both my grandads fought in ww1 and my father in ww2 ,I consider it a cycle broken . Even my poor old Mum was a navy nurse in the korean war !
That's quite a mental journey for a British soldier to make. I seen that you've said about learning more about The Conflict so I will give you a bit of inside info from the opposition camp so to speak. The Republican movement in The North is generally quite progressive politically and as such it's genuinely committed members often did not have a downer on the individuals who joined the British Army. A fair percentage of l Republicans seen squaddies as naive cannon fodder who were just trying to escape council estates and generational poverty. I am not as generous as my fellow Republicans who demonstrated such empathy towards soldiers. I've met hundreds of serving and ex-forces personnel. I've found a huge percentage to be loathsome Little Englanders and North Britons who are under the misapprehension that they are somehow superior to far better developed humans for no other reason than nationality. Probably the biggest irony of the conflict was the Irish who were involved in The Republican movement did not necessarily hate British soldiers per se but were ok with them being killed as a political necessity. Whereas non-violent constitutional Irish Nationalists had a more middle class mindset and loathed the mindless ignorance of the underclass that are soldiers. I was fortunate and lucky enough to go to a Grammar School and most of my class mates and teachers were too posh to be Provo fans but were very forthright that they viewed soldiers as merely soccer hooligans in uniforms. Don't know if this is of any interest to you but there you go.
@@MrBagpipes Thanks for the comment . I have met an ex provo and it was surprising how much we had in common. For years I was tormented by hate and thoughts of revenge for lost mates , but gradually I came to the view that we were all victims . This is why I cant regret it , it made me a wiser more broad minded person . These days politically I'm very anti establishment and more of an anarchist than anything else . I always say that no one came out of that conflict with clean hands ,to my mind there is no moral high ground to be had ,the whole thing was wrong,start to finish . There were heroes and villains on all sides.
Many Irish fought for the British in WW2 simply as a career and fight against fascist Nazis at the time which was justified....but when came home they were ostrisized and resented by their families and community......in my opinion national socialism needed to be stopped. The most attrocitious war in modern history........ sadly only 80 years ago and we still haven't learned from it .......
Powerful! It is amazing how this came about. Shane Paul O'Doherty once when down a dark road but then became a person of peace. He fought for what was right but peace must always be maintained in order to become a peaceful resolution. My father-in-law was born in Fermanagh NI and he knew friends who were Protestant but the Bristish soldiers caused the damage for everyone. Peace and Love for all!
"A romantic diet of Irish history" - one of the more objective ones Peter Taylor but only an Englishman could be possessed of such arrogance to refer to Irish history as a "romantic diet" while that of his own land is no doubt gallant and heroic.
Im glad my dad took my mum sister and me to Scotland in 1978 after 3 attempts to whack him by the IRA because i would of probably ended up dead or in jail if he hadn't. This gave me the chance to see what was happening from outside our wee country and realise that both sides where run by the same entity
I do agree but his turn around hurt and made life harder for PIRA comrades he didn't like jail but I know his change of mind was heartfelt and genuine.
Shane broke tested the metal of his brothers in the English prison system, screws would taunt other prisoners about how well he was eating or the typewriter he had in his cell. He just couldn’t handle his time. He was a young man and when the door slammed behind him and the brutality started he had a change of mind. Then the book grown men cried when it was known he was giving away game in his book. But he has his own demons now to deal with.
Anywhere plantations were practiced, it leaves a wake of social unjustice in the population, even long after ending. Northern Ireland, Southern U.S. or throughout the Caribbean it left fractured societies.
With the sheer amount of attacks on police and soldiers and constant riots the place was a boiling pot of trouble. The attacks and deaths were daily, an incident like bloody Sunday was on the cards. The pressure cooker that was NI at the time. The bombs going off constantly and police shot in Derry were the back drop to this calamity.
How do you break an army who has invaded and offended your people, conflict brings terrible actions and men must do what they can to fight back. Thank God it’s peace now.
If life was so terrible for the Catholics living in Northern Ireland you would have thought they would have moved south to the Irish Republic for a better one.That's something which has always genuinely confused me.(and im not just saying that to sound a clever sod).
many did. there were refugee camps on the Irish border. but many people want to stay in the place that they come from and improve conditions rather than leave. also, leaving your life behind and moving costs money, which many of them did not have. if a foreign army occupied your home how easy would it be to leave?
There's a lot of people aware of Shane Paul O'Docherty's so-called 'journey' from Republican activist to born again Christian. He's entitled to tell his story. But as a historical study of the Irish Republican struggle people would be better looking elsewhere. It's nothing more than a strange quasi-religious confessional full of pious self abasement. I find people like O'Docherty, Sean O'Callaghan, Eamonn Collins and others to be strange characters on the whole.
But that goes for all sides, I'm afraid a lot of the crimes from the UK state against Irish people rarely make the news, and as an example, when British government completely lose their minds and give the go ahead to the Generals to shoot to kill, it takes decades to get any recognition, forget justice, but recognition, you're right Ellen, murder is murder, but sadly, because the puppet masters of the conflict (state) will not release the papers, some have been put in storage for 70 years to hide their sins. The real story Ellen, is the amount of British lives that were taken while special Branch and MI5 knew about forthcoming killings from paid republican informers but let them go ahead to keep the informer away from suspicion. They called it the dirty war for a reason pal, the proof is out there pal, the Brits didn't give a monkeys about the people of Ulster, it kinda suited them to keep the conflict going, even the Brit squaddies called it the training ground. Informers infiltrated all sides by the way, the whole thing stinks pal.
No doubt about it- the Protestant's treated the Catholic community abysmally. Had they not done so, it's highly likely we would never have experienced The Troubles. I think Republicans would be pleasantly surprised at how many people in Britain want to see a united Ireland in the future. Politics is the only viable solution- violence was never the answer. It's extremely sad for his family- they are thoroughly decent people with good moral values, I feel sorry for them.
Shane's memories are more valuable than those of some others, because he joined the IRA earlier than them, even earlier than McGuinness. So he is able to bust some myths about there being no IRA in Derry before1970. It's unfortunate that, for legal reasons, he is not able to supply all the true names - but those of us who have read similar accounts can join the dots. Also, Shane never became an informer for the authorities - he is just honest about what he did and saw.
The official IRA ran the show in 70 it’s only when the provisionals took over that the movement started taking ground. Men went to America Africa Europe and then Libya to arm volunteers. This is when they gelled together and gave back London what was happening in Belfast. I hate bombs.
@@patkearney9320 Thank you. Most of the books about the IRA mention Sean Keenan Snr as "the leader of the IRA in Derry" in 1969/70. But this ignores the fact that there were guys like Johnnie White and Terry Robson who who stayed with the Official IRA and continued to operate throughout. The untold story is how the IRA families in Derry split into two camps - who is still alive to write it ?
Being Scottish and brought up catholic both my parents Glaswegian on my mothers side Irish her mother from Donegal with family in Derry many happy memories of holidays there started reading about Irish heroes and the persecution of Irish people I believed in the Irish freedom from British imperialism and the murderous crown and loyalist death squads I read of my heroes and wanted the same to play my own part in the patriot game never was involved but sympathised TAL Saoirse
As a three year veteran of The Troubles there was always one thing that puzzled me. I didn't find the answer whilst serving in Northern Ireland and I have read countless books about the Troubles. That includes books written by or about the PIRA. (Including Shane O'Doherty's book The Volunterr) The Catholics quite rightly marched for their civil rights and it was quite obvious to me that they were discriminated against, so why on Earth didn't the British Government change it? Why not give them the same rights as everyone else? I can't condone the violence that happened but I could see their point.
Your honest and brave soldier great honest comment, I'm glad your alive and survived regards from Ireland.
@@patkearney9320 Thank you so much, your comment really does mean a lot to me.
@@Sidney1WG it's a very simple answer.
In no part of The Empire were natives ever accorded the same recognition as colonists. Empires are established for a certain group to benefit at the expense of others be it Britain in Ireland or France in Vietnam or Portugal and Belgium in Africa. And to justify that exploitation of others those others are portrayed as inferior to such an extent that the reigning group sees their colonised minions as undeserving of self-determination, economic progression and social advancement.
@@Sidney1WG No you earned and learned by yourself it's you who deserves respect and thanks, I'm sixty and played on the other team yet I never hated soldiers we have all owned blame, and been owned. Respect and regards from Ireland.
@@MrBagpipes only thing that separates Vietnam in your comment is that they kicked out two superpowers from their country! Been there before and nothing but total admiration for them considering the losses they suffered
I need some sleep iv been watching these vidz for 3 days solid and when i wake up il be watching more..from both sides perspective...love them keep them coming who ever you are❤🎉🎉🎉
Get some sleep friend - they will be here when you awake :)
'Our Revenge will be the laughter of our children ' Oglach Bobby Sands , OC Long Kesh , Hunger Striker , MP , Political Prisoner...!! Rest Well Brave Soldier Of Eire !!
Yes Bobby did write that. But the scumbags n agents in SF have turned that around with the Abortion issue, its now the slaughter of our children.
@@RUDI-UKhe has the giggles now son 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@RUDI-UK pay attention Rudi, it'll all be over soon enough.
@@RUDI-UK 🐀
@@RUDI-UKThere will be no more decades of union to come. Fact.
What an educated family. Fascinating documentary . As his brother says, let’s. Try and remember the future
Fascinating film , I too as a young man was caught up in the romance and adventure of it and I joined the British army knowing full well that I'd be going to Ireland . What I learned there and subsequently taught me that the whole thing was a tragedy from the start . All sides were as bad as each other ,all lied ,all murdered all broke whatever rules there were ,police ,army and paramilitaries . The scales started to fall from my eyes in the late 70s while I was serving there , and I've been obsessed about learning more ever since from all sources . I'm very thankful that none of my three sons joined up and as both my grandads fought in ww1 and my father in ww2 ,I consider it a cycle broken . Even my poor old Mum was a navy nurse in the korean war !
That's quite a mental journey for a British soldier to make.
I seen that you've said about learning more about The Conflict so I will give you a bit of inside info from the opposition camp so to speak. The Republican movement in The North is generally quite progressive politically and as such it's genuinely committed members often did not have a downer on the individuals who joined the British Army. A fair percentage of l Republicans seen squaddies as naive cannon fodder who were just trying to escape council estates and generational poverty. I am not as generous as my fellow Republicans who demonstrated such empathy towards soldiers. I've met hundreds of serving and ex-forces personnel. I've found a huge percentage to be loathsome Little Englanders and North Britons who are under the misapprehension that they are somehow superior to far better developed humans for no other reason than nationality.
Probably the biggest irony of the conflict was the Irish who were involved in The Republican movement did not necessarily hate British soldiers per se but were ok with them being killed as a political necessity. Whereas non-violent constitutional Irish Nationalists had a more middle class mindset and loathed the mindless ignorance of the underclass that are soldiers. I was fortunate and lucky enough to go to a Grammar School and most of my class mates and teachers were too posh to be Provo fans but were very forthright that they viewed soldiers as merely soccer hooligans in uniforms.
Don't know if this is of any interest to you but there you go.
@@MrBagpipes Thanks for the comment . I have met an ex provo and it was surprising how much we had in common. For years I was tormented by hate and thoughts of revenge for lost mates , but gradually I came to the view that we were all victims . This is why I cant regret it , it made me a wiser more broad minded person . These days politically I'm very anti establishment and more of an anarchist than anything else . I always say that no one came out of that conflict with clean hands ,to my mind there is no moral high ground to be had ,the whole thing was wrong,start to finish . There were heroes and villains on all sides.
It was basically a form of ethnic civil war. No matter where they happen in the world, they're always very ugly
Many Irish fought for the British in WW2 simply as a career and fight against fascist Nazis at the time which was justified....but when came home they were ostrisized and resented by their families and community......in my opinion national socialism needed to be stopped. The most attrocitious war in modern history........ sadly only 80 years ago and we still haven't learned from it .......
@@jackietreehorn5561Many Irish fought for the British in world war 2 ???.....Name ONE !
Powerful! It is amazing how this came about. Shane Paul O'Doherty once when down a dark road but then became a person of peace. He fought for what was right but peace must always be maintained in order to become a peaceful resolution. My father-in-law was born in Fermanagh NI and he knew friends who were Protestant but the Bristish soldiers caused the damage for everyone. Peace and Love for all!
"A romantic diet of Irish history" - one of the more objective ones Peter Taylor but only an Englishman could be possessed of such arrogance to refer to Irish history as a "romantic diet" while that of his own land is no doubt gallant and heroic.
Im glad my dad took my mum sister and me to Scotland in 1978 after 3 attempts to whack him by the IRA because i would of probably ended up dead or in jail if he hadn't.
This gave me the chance to see what was happening from outside our wee country and realise that both sides where run by the same entity
Which entity is that?
His brother puts it brilliantly a find him a funny character though sensible and clearly clever
Mr Doherty is a good man. Repented and became man of peace. He stands tall.
I do agree but his turn around hurt and made life harder for PIRA comrades he didn't like jail but I know his change of mind was heartfelt and genuine.
Heroes
Shane broke tested the metal of his brothers in the English prison system, screws would taunt other prisoners about how well he was eating or the typewriter he had in his cell. He just couldn’t handle his time. He was a young man and when the door slammed behind him and the brutality started he had a change of mind. Then the book grown men cried when it was known he was giving away game in his book. But he has his own demons now to deal with.
British Colonialism was Wrong and Unjust across the World, and here we are still trying to repair the damage Centuries later.
Anywhere plantations were practiced, it leaves a wake of social unjustice in the population, even long after ending. Northern Ireland, Southern U.S. or throughout the Caribbean it left fractured societies.
Walter Dougherty chemical reaction shouldn't snitched on his brother
Thank you ATL, keeping history alive and true whilst others do their best to rewrite it.
Collusion will always be a factor..
Collusion started right at the start of the conflict British soldiers ginger baker being one trained uda men71🇮🇪32
Thanks a lot for another great upload.
You know they won't cover this in school. So thank God we have an outlet so to speak. And make your own opinion. Thanks for your great work.
With the sheer amount of attacks on police and soldiers and constant riots the place was a boiling pot of trouble. The attacks and deaths were daily, an incident like bloody Sunday was on the cards. The pressure cooker that was NI at the time. The bombs going off constantly and police shot in Derry were the back drop to this calamity.
How do you break an army who has invaded and offended your people, conflict brings terrible actions and men must do what they can to fight back. Thank God it’s peace now.
If life was so terrible for the Catholics living in Northern Ireland you would have thought they would have moved south to the Irish Republic for a better one.That's something which has always genuinely confused me.(and im not just saying that to sound a clever sod).
You don’t give ground you stay strong with your neighbours to leave is shameful. Like a game you don’t give ground.
many did. there were refugee camps on the Irish border. but many people want to stay in the place that they come from and improve conditions rather than leave. also, leaving your life behind and moving costs money, which many of them did not have. if a foreign army occupied your home how easy would it be to leave?
thanks as always ATL
Appreciate the support
There's a lot of people aware of Shane Paul O'Docherty's so-called 'journey' from Republican activist to born again Christian. He's entitled to tell his story. But as a historical study of the Irish Republican struggle people would be better looking elsewhere. It's nothing more than a strange quasi-religious confessional full of pious self abasement. I find people like O'Docherty, Sean O'Callaghan, Eamonn Collins and others to be strange characters on the whole.
It's religious guilt.... historical study of the bible too is factually inaccurate and contradictory....would look elsewhere there too
O Callaghan was a rat.
@@seanorathagain among many rats,it seems
It’s odd to hear him now, he’s gone full circle and is ashamed to be Irish. Cheers on the English football team as well, quite bizzare.
I was aware a long time ago he served his purpose he learned war is hell🇮🇪32
The Family no him best.....NO Excuses Murder is Murder
war is war luv
Interesting, Pity he ruined his reputation,
Commiserations to the families of the victims, never to be forgotten.
But that goes for all sides, I'm afraid a lot of the crimes from the UK state against Irish people rarely make the news, and as an example, when British government completely lose their minds and give the go ahead to the Generals to shoot to kill, it takes decades to get any recognition, forget justice, but recognition, you're right Ellen, murder is murder, but sadly, because the puppet masters of the conflict (state) will not release the papers, some have been put in storage for 70 years to hide their sins.
The real story Ellen, is the amount of British lives that were taken while special Branch and MI5 knew about forthcoming killings from paid republican informers but let them go ahead to keep the informer away from suspicion.
They called it the dirty war for a reason pal, the proof is out there pal, the Brits didn't give a monkeys about the people of Ulster, it kinda suited them to keep the conflict going, even the Brit squaddies called it the training ground.
Informers infiltrated all sides by the way, the whole thing stinks pal.
Ireland had a right to defend itself from the brutal British regime
No doubt about it- the Protestant's treated the Catholic community abysmally. Had they not done so, it's highly likely we would never have experienced The Troubles. I think Republicans would be pleasantly surprised at how many people in Britain want to see a united Ireland in the future. Politics is the only viable solution- violence was never the answer. It's extremely sad for his family- they are thoroughly decent people with good moral values, I feel sorry for them.
Ok we are seeing a English persepet of the war. just keep that in mind.
Shane's memories are more valuable than those of some others, because he joined the IRA earlier than them, even earlier than McGuinness. So he is able to bust some myths about there being no IRA in Derry before1970. It's unfortunate that, for legal reasons, he is not able to supply all the true names - but those of us who have read similar accounts can join the dots. Also, Shane never became an informer for the authorities - he is just honest about what he did and saw.
The official IRA ran the show in 70 it’s only when the provisionals took over that the movement started taking ground. Men went to America Africa Europe and then Libya to arm volunteers. This is when they gelled together and gave back London what was happening in Belfast. I hate bombs.
@@patkearney9320 Thank you. Most of the books about the IRA mention Sean Keenan Snr as "the leader of the IRA in Derry" in 1969/70. But this ignores the fact that there were guys like Johnnie White and Terry Robson who who stayed with the Official IRA and continued to operate throughout. The untold story is how the IRA families in Derry split into two camps - who is still alive to write it ?
Erin unfree shall never be at peace Patrick Henry Pearce🇮🇪32
god love Eire
Very nice family, respect from a Scot.
Iz he Alive / no Shot by british army pre ambush
Even in the CBS in the 70s the brothers lit the fire of rebellion in us, i was never surprised to hear who was arrested or shot or gone on the run.
So you found all the materials to make Bombs , Knowing full well that they were going to Murder innocent people and you did NOTHING ? Really 😪😪
how can you forgive or forget 800yrs of hell
Bit of pro british propaganda, he changed because he couldn't do his porridge,
Incorrect. Light enfused his soul and dispelled the darkness.
@@karlmeyer9473 He changed sides and is now as Loyal to the Union as any Orangeman.
@@karlmeyer9473Or he betrayed his oath and comrades I'd have to walk in his shoes to understand him.
@@patkearney9320very true.... thankfully never been in war but met guys that have...... seemed like broken men
Being Scottish and brought up catholic both my parents Glaswegian on my mothers side Irish her mother from Donegal with family in Derry many happy memories of holidays there started reading about Irish heroes and the persecution of Irish people I believed in the Irish freedom from British imperialism and the murderous crown and loyalist death squads I read of my heroes and wanted the same to play my own part in the patriot game never was involved but sympathised TAL Saoirse
Funny story ... usual british state lite propaganda.
a shame he turned his back on the Irish struggle....
Long Live Eire 🇨🇮💪
He broke his comrades and made life so much harder, bottom line he couldn’t do his time.