One increbly niche use of the Daikyu samurai is that you can go Christian with the chosocabe without losing the ability to outrange your opponent which is incredibly valuable in sieges.
I would say that Daikyu samurai are the best bow unit of the game. One thing that unit description doesn't say is that they have armor penetration. So these archers acts like a matchlock unit. I have tested it on the campaign with mixed armies of Daikyu and bow monks and Daikyu were killing a lot more enemies than bow monks by a far margin. Something like 800 enemies killed per unit in siege defence. With stand and fight and enough experience these guys have like 12-13 melee attack so if enemy units climb the walls they get punished in close combat also. Their reload rate is low but bow monks need two shots to kill an armored unit where Daikyu only need one. I remember on one siege defence battle nine units of Daikyu killed about 8000 enemies (three full enemy stacks composed of a mix of ashigaru/samurais on ultra unit size). The ammunition is insane they have a lot to the point you are not going to get out of arrows in a battle ever. They also have armor so once they start getting shot there is less casualties compared to bow monks.
Well just to clear it up. Daikyu samurai don't have armor penetration, their arrows just deal more damage compared to other bow infantry. That's the reason why they are better against armored units, similar to vanilla matchlock units.
IMO, the biggest advantage to Chosokabe Daikyu Samurai is the option to be able to convert and still field full range bows. With any other faction, converting to Christianity will preclude the use of warrior monks and thus the longest range bows. But the Chosokabe still have that option, and with their defensible island holdout they can safely convert to Christianity and thus use this option.
I probably would have placed the daikyu samurai higher because you can recruit them much earlier in the game then warrior monks unless you devote all of your research towards them, which I tend not to do as the chosokabe because the religion chain I find to be less useful in general until you start interacting with other religions. But when I play as them, I generally find myself with access to daikyu bows around fairly early, and they are far more powerful then any other bows other clans will be fielding around the same time.
That's where personal preference comes in. I tend to go for Bow Warrior Monks much earlier. You only need Essence of the Spirit, which is only 7 turns away from Zen, which I usually get fairly early on. Since I recruit my ranged units in Buzen, which is owned by the Otomo at the start of the game, you'll be dealing with religion early on so it will help in that regard too.
***** I don't tend to build super armies as soon as possible, which is the difference between us. I expand as much as reasonably possible before I slow down and develop more 'sophisticated forces' per say. So for me, having the encampment is a good way to boost my recruited forces anywhere in anyway, which is why I aim for it as soon as possible. As the Chosokabe, having the Daikyu's is a bonus for researching down that chain.
@@MrSmartDonkeyLP yes, but that means you have to build an additional tier 2 building (temple and then monastery) and that 7 turn research... I just finished my legendary chosokabe campaign and the daikyu samurai were of very good use to me. Also, that thing that you say that the AI focuses on your melee units is not always true. Ive had enemy archers focus my daikyu samurai many times, in which case the additional armor definitely helped. I dealt with the religion problem in Buzen with just a priest or two. Since it was my recruitment hub for bow samurai and daikyu samurai and also a border province, there were always some units keeping eye on public order :) but as you say, the difference is not that big and it comes down to personal preference :)
Hattori Bandits are good in offensive sieges, since defending melee units usually try to move out of range of missile units, but if bandits are shooting at them they'll just mill around in confusion. And once you have the building requirements you might as well churn out a lot of them, since they're no more expensive than bow ashigaru to maintain, and just as useful for defending forts. Not an amazing unit, but hardly useless, and the only really unique unit that the Hattori get.
@Fabrizzio Perfetti Yep, fire up the game and check it. Imagine being able to have a fast wall climbing strong melee unit. Just try to maneuver them to a weak point in the archers defences.
Huh...About Hattori Bandits...Just finished another campaign with Ninja clan again and I have to say - they are good. You don't use them as regular archers, rather as flanking backstabbers. Since they are invisible - You can snipe generals with them, flank and shoot back of enemy while they are storming Yari Ashigaru's wall, not to mention they are, with ninjas - one of best offensive/defensive units. Can't agree with that placing Sir. Yes - WBMonks are best glasscannon DPS units but You get HB much earlier, much cheaper and in numbers. And as Hattori - You build sake dens almost everywhere due ninja spam/eco smuggling network, public order (I did max tax run with almost always green obedience.
I’d say hojo hand mortars have an odd niche in siege battles, as they can shatter key targets behind walls and cause them to get disorganized during the climbing of a wall
I don't tend to specifically go for them, but sometimes I get them if they're available from the buildings I was getting anyway. I tend to use them as a second general type unit since they encourage nearby units. There's definitely some that are better than others though, I'll probably do a Top X on them sometime too.
couldn't hattori bandits be used by using kisho training to hide them on a ridge, then have them fire down on enemies passing below them without them turning? i remember doing a similar thing with bow ashigaru, but once i started firing they turned around and the plan went south
Martin S i might have been a bit too specific, i mostly meant hide them on high ground, wait for them to pass, then fire from behind, I'm not sure how true this is, but I'm pretty sure that even high level ai have a "outta sight outta mind" mentality, so to them it would just be arrows coming from nowhere, potentially killing their general, and overall demoralizing them
Sure, you can do that, but instead of that you can field any other archer unit and just use Yari Cav to assassinate a general, or use Bow Warrior Monks and just snipe them down. Just because something is possible, doesn't make it a good strategy. Appreciate the out of the box thought process though ;).
MrSmartDonkeyLP i see your point, I only mentioned it because of the situation i mentioned at the beginning of this chain, I set my main force on a hill with a narrow, open plain between me and their spawn with a forested ridge overlooking it, i put 4 bow ashigaru on there and moved into position, when they fired though the enemy immediately turned to fight them, even climbing the hill to do so, i somehow won in the end, but if they could have stayed hidden while firing it could have been devastating while they were fighting my army
lol I heard you disclaimer lol I'm just saying I use them quite a lot in multiplayer and their supportive abilities really do help out :) btw been watching your channel for a long time lol
Apparently weapons, unless you're facing a lot of archer spam. Armor doesn't seem to do that much in melee. My 14-armor Naginata Samurai lose against Katana Samurai but if you go for either the +4 attack and +5 charge bonus or just +6 attack (I think the first option is better), they'll win
The major difference between Ronin and Samurai units are their numbers. While Ronin units usually have better stats (marginally better) they have worser numbers than their Samurai counterparts. And since the Ronin units are the best you can get (in terms of Samurai units; There's no Naginata Ronin that I'm aware of, and I personally use Naginata Warrior Monks as a 'backstab unit') I suppose getting one or two Yari Ronin is good to diversify your army, to have great anti cavalry (ever since Ikko Ikki yari ashigaru have worser stats than the regular yari ashigaru) and to tank a few arrows while your Bow Warrior Monks do their picking off. Usually I invest a lot on Loan Sword Ashigaru, they are pretty good with a great damage base (albeit low armor) and can easily form your frontline unit alongside your Yari Ashigaru. So, in my experience, I'd get the Warrior Monks first, since you get them relatively early as well, then I suppose start investing in Yari Ronin once your army is already rather strong.
It's still completely useless. It doesn't do any damage, even if it hits, which it barely does. Either way, it's worse then all other 14 units on the list, or at least in my opinion, but I doubt many people will disagree with that choice.
***** It's still a siege weapon, and that means there's little logical reason to have one (the high tech-requirement plays a big role here), but it has its niche use. Granted, mostly in custom battles or in multiplayer, and that makes its usefulness moot on this list.
I see your point, but my counter point, at least in campaign would be that they are outclassed even in the thing they're supposed to be best at. First of all, as I have mentioned countless times before, offensive sieges are terrible, just siege out the opponent instead. Let's metaphorically say you do fight offensive sieges though, for the sake of this argument, I'd still much rather have 1 extra Bow Warrior Monk unit over the Hand Mortar, they outclass most archers as well, and will deal much, much more damage with their insane amount of ammo.
***** "Let's metaphorically say you do fight offensive sieges though, for the sake of this argument" I always fight them, but probably because the town square mechanic in older Total War games have traumatized me for life. ;) You're right, bow warrior monk would be more beneficial when fighting against the AI, but if I would have to choose between the mortar and the rocket, I'd pick the mortar (during sieges, that is. The rocket's anti-cavalry capability trumps mortar on open fields).
I didn't mean you specifically, I meant it more as a "Let's say one does fight offensive sieges" because one shouldn't, since sieging out the enemy is the better option 99% of the time.
mmmm Great .video like alwasy but for me you understemate the power of hattori bandits, they have a special traits ''hide when fiering'' so if you put them into a forest they will win any type of engage because the ia did t move and can't counter fier back because they are hide. In the open you are right they aren't so useful (sorry for my bad enghlis i hope you can see the point @,@).
I do see your point, but I explained this in the video. It doesn't matter because the AI focuses your melee infantry anyway. So whether your archers are hidden or not, it doesn't change anything because they won't get shot regardless.
I just thought that maybe they could be useful if you take one or two of them into your army to get some flanking shots off. But I guess you are overall right. Their disadvantages seems to big in comparrison to bow monks
![NLE Choppa - Or What ft. 41 (Orchestra Mix) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/biOFASEgSOM/mqdefault.jpg)
One increbly niche use of the Daikyu samurai is that you can go Christian with the chosocabe without losing the ability to outrange your opponent which is incredibly valuable in sieges.
YES! Finally, someone else gets it! I've been saying this for ages
I would say that Daikyu samurai are the best bow unit of the game. One thing that unit description doesn't say is that they have armor penetration. So these archers acts like a matchlock unit. I have tested it on the campaign with mixed armies of Daikyu and bow monks and Daikyu were killing a lot more enemies than bow monks by a far margin. Something like 800 enemies killed per unit in siege defence. With stand and fight and enough experience these guys have like 12-13 melee attack so if enemy units climb the walls they get punished in close combat also. Their reload rate is low but bow monks need two shots to kill an armored unit where Daikyu only need one. I remember on one siege defence battle nine units of Daikyu killed about 8000 enemies (three full enemy stacks composed of a mix of ashigaru/samurais on ultra unit size). The ammunition is insane they have a lot to the point you are not going to get out of arrows in a battle ever. They also have armor so once they start getting shot there is less casualties compared to bow monks.
I never ever heard of them before!
Well just to clear it up. Daikyu samurai don't have armor penetration, their arrows just deal more damage compared to other bow infantry. That's the reason why they are better against armored units, similar to vanilla matchlock units.
Throwing stones would probably be deadlier than the hand mortars.
IMO, the biggest advantage to Chosokabe Daikyu Samurai is the option to be able to convert and still field full range bows. With any other faction, converting to Christianity will preclude the use of warrior monks and thus the longest range bows. But the Chosokabe still have that option, and with their defensible island holdout they can safely convert to Christianity and thus use this option.
I probably would have placed the daikyu samurai higher because you can recruit them much earlier in the game then warrior monks unless you devote all of your research towards them, which I tend not to do as the chosokabe because the religion chain I find to be less useful in general until you start interacting with other religions. But when I play as them, I generally find myself with access to daikyu bows around fairly early, and they are far more powerful then any other bows other clans will be fielding around the same time.
That's where personal preference comes in. I tend to go for Bow Warrior Monks much earlier. You only need Essence of the Spirit, which is only 7 turns away from Zen, which I usually get fairly early on. Since I recruit my ranged units in Buzen, which is owned by the Otomo at the start of the game, you'll be dealing with religion early on so it will help in that regard too.
***** I don't tend to build super armies as soon as possible, which is the difference between us. I expand as much as reasonably possible before I slow down and develop more 'sophisticated forces' per say. So for me, having the encampment is a good way to boost my recruited forces anywhere in anyway, which is why I aim for it as soon as possible. As the Chosokabe, having the Daikyu's is a bonus for researching down that chain.
@@MrSmartDonkeyLP yes, but that means you have to build an additional tier 2 building (temple and then monastery) and that 7 turn research... I just finished my legendary chosokabe campaign and the daikyu samurai were of very good use to me. Also, that thing that you say that the AI focuses on your melee units is not always true. Ive had enemy archers focus my daikyu samurai many times, in which case the additional armor definitely helped. I dealt with the religion problem in Buzen with just a priest or two. Since it was my recruitment hub for bow samurai and daikyu samurai and also a border province, there were always some units keeping eye on public order :)
but as you say, the difference is not that big and it comes down to personal preference :)
At 5:24 RIP LordRex. I always knew he was a complete noob pleb
Hattori Bandits are good in offensive sieges, since defending melee units usually try to move out of range of missile units, but if bandits are shooting at them they'll just mill around in confusion. And once you have the building requirements you might as well churn out a lot of them, since they're no more expensive than bow ashigaru to maintain, and just as useful for defending forts. Not an amazing unit, but hardly useless, and the only really unique unit that the Hattori get.
Second wind ability is the most satisfying thing in the game after flying units from the cavalry charge
Did you know that Marathon Monks have the same wall climb speed as kisho ninja and don't fall off and die during it?
@Fabrizzio Perfetti Yep, fire up the game and check it. Imagine being able to have a fast wall climbing strong melee unit. Just try to maneuver them to a weak point in the archers defences.
Daikyu Samurai does have higher kill chance than Bow Warrior Monk and regular Bow Samurai though.
Huh...About Hattori Bandits...Just finished another campaign with Ninja clan again and I have to say - they are good. You don't use them as regular archers, rather as flanking backstabbers. Since they are invisible - You can snipe generals with them, flank and shoot back of enemy while they are storming Yari Ashigaru's wall, not to mention they are, with ninjas - one of best offensive/defensive units. Can't agree with that placing Sir. Yes - WBMonks are best glasscannon DPS units but You get HB much earlier, much cheaper and in numbers. And as Hattori - You build sake dens almost everywhere due ninja spam/eco smuggling network, public order (I did max tax run with almost always green obedience.
I’d say hojo hand mortars have an odd niche in siege battles, as they can shatter key targets behind walls and cause them to get disorganized during the climbing of a wall
Great video!, as usual. Thank you for exchanging the banner, it adds a bit of variety to the video
I like the hattori bandits for ambushed and hassarsing
looking forward to part 2 and 3
How do I unlock the unique units ? I can’t find them in custom battles nor in the campaign.
@@Ch-ew9tm You will need the DLCs, my friend :((((
Bravo, good picks. I agree with them all.
Thanks, hope you agree with the remaining 10 too :).
@MrSmartDonkey do you suggest using hero units in campain?
I don't tend to specifically go for them, but sometimes I get them if they're available from the buildings I was getting anyway. I tend to use them as a second general type unit since they encourage nearby units. There's definitely some that are better than others though, I'll probably do a Top X on them sometime too.
ok thanks
couldn't hattori bandits be used by using kisho training to hide them on a ridge, then have them fire down on enemies passing below them without them turning? i remember doing a similar thing with bow ashigaru, but once i started firing they turned around and the plan went south
Thats very situational...
Martin S i might have been a bit too specific, i mostly meant hide them on high ground, wait for them to pass, then fire from behind, I'm not sure how true this is, but I'm pretty sure that even high level ai have a "outta sight outta mind" mentality, so to them it would just be arrows coming from nowhere, potentially killing their general, and overall demoralizing them
Sure, you can do that, but instead of that you can field any other archer unit and just use Yari Cav to assassinate a general, or use Bow Warrior Monks and just snipe them down. Just because something is possible, doesn't make it a good strategy. Appreciate the out of the box thought process though ;).
MrSmartDonkeyLP i see your point, I only mentioned it because of the situation i mentioned at the beginning of this chain, I set my main force on a hill with a narrow, open plain between me and their spawn with a forested ridge overlooking it, i put 4 bow ashigaru on there and moved into position, when they fired though the enemy immediately turned to fight them, even climbing the hill to do so, i somehow won in the end, but if they could have stayed hidden while firing it could have been devastating while they were fighting my army
marathon monks are pivotal in multiplayer battles, late game that second wind and warcry abilities are deadly
0:54
lol I heard you disclaimer lol I'm just saying I use them quite a lot in multiplayer and their supportive abilities really do help out :) btw been watching your channel for a long time lol
Ah, my bad. Thanks for watching the videos, hope you've been enjoying them. :D
yea, I always come back to watch these videos :)
Seeing these Hojo Hand Mortars makes me wonder, MrSD, what happened to your Otomo gunpowder-only gameplay?
Discontinued, but I will likely restart it at some point in the future, quite enjoyed that campaign.
Very well! I did enjoy that series too! Was so confused when I hit the 'final' episode on that playlist.
Love it subbed
If i got the chance to wether to improve my troops weapons or my troops armor, which on should i take?
Apparently weapons, unless you're facing a lot of archer spam. Armor doesn't seem to do that much in melee. My 14-armor Naginata Samurai lose against Katana Samurai but if you go for either the +4 attack and +5 charge bonus or just +6 attack (I think the first option is better), they'll win
@@houndofculann1793 Thanks for the advice
is the yari ronin better than yari samurai? are they worth getting before warrior monks?
Watch this: ruclips.net/video/6GD_G46kj6Y/видео.html
The major difference between Ronin and Samurai units are their numbers. While Ronin units usually have better stats (marginally better) they have worser numbers than their Samurai counterparts. And since the Ronin units are the best you can get (in terms of Samurai units; There's no Naginata Ronin that I'm aware of, and I personally use Naginata Warrior Monks as a 'backstab unit') I suppose getting one or two Yari Ronin is good to diversify your army, to have great anti cavalry (ever since Ikko Ikki yari ashigaru have worser stats than the regular yari ashigaru) and to tank a few arrows while your Bow Warrior Monks do their picking off.
Usually I invest a lot on Loan Sword Ashigaru, they are pretty good with a great damage base (albeit low armor) and can easily form your frontline unit alongside your Yari Ashigaru.
So, in my experience, I'd get the Warrior Monks first, since you get them relatively early as well, then I suppose start investing in Yari Ronin once your army is already rather strong.
+Ghunter43 ok. thanks :D
Mortar works better than the rocket during sieges (on both sides) because of the high-elevation trajectory.
It's still completely useless. It doesn't do any damage, even if it hits, which it barely does. Either way, it's worse then all other 14 units on the list, or at least in my opinion, but I doubt many people will disagree with that choice.
*****
It's still a siege weapon, and that means there's little logical reason to have one (the high tech-requirement plays a big role here), but it has its niche use. Granted, mostly in custom battles or in multiplayer, and that makes its usefulness moot on this list.
I see your point, but my counter point, at least in campaign would be that they are outclassed even in the thing they're supposed to be best at. First of all, as I have mentioned countless times before, offensive sieges are terrible, just siege out the opponent instead. Let's metaphorically say you do fight offensive sieges though, for the sake of this argument, I'd still much rather have 1 extra Bow Warrior Monk unit over the Hand Mortar, they outclass most archers as well, and will deal much, much more damage with their insane amount of ammo.
*****
"Let's metaphorically say you do fight offensive sieges though, for the sake of this argument"
I always fight them, but probably because the town square mechanic in older Total War games have traumatized me for life. ;)
You're right, bow warrior monk would be more beneficial when fighting against the AI, but if I would have to choose between the mortar and the rocket, I'd pick the mortar (during sieges, that is. The rocket's anti-cavalry capability trumps mortar on open fields).
I didn't mean you specifically, I meant it more as a "Let's say one does fight offensive sieges" because one shouldn't, since sieging out the enemy is the better option 99% of the time.
What about Ikko Ikki matchlock warrior monks versus Shimazu heavy gunners?
this is the most agreeable list handmortal and hattori just shit if there is no mod
Do I need DLC for the units that are in the video?
Yeah, I made a video on all the DLC so you can see what you'll need: ruclips.net/video/zBacC42Bw1M/видео.html
mmmm Great .video like alwasy but for me you understemate the power of hattori bandits, they have a special traits ''hide when fiering'' so if you put them into a forest they will win any type of engage because the ia did t move and can't counter fier back because they are hide. In the open you are right they aren't so useful (sorry for my bad enghlis i hope you can see the point @,@).
I do see your point, but I explained this in the video. It doesn't matter because the AI focuses your melee infantry anyway. So whether your archers are hidden or not, it doesn't change anything because they won't get shot regardless.
I just thought that maybe they could be useful if you take one or two of them into your army to get some flanking shots off. But I guess you are overall right. Their disadvantages seems to big in comparrison to bow monks
What about the shimazu katana hero
I'm guessing you skipped the intro: 0:32
@@MrSmartDonkeyLP oh ya ya I remember
@@MrSmartDonkeyLP well really Oda long ashigaru are good
I know, that's why they're at #1.