I watched two of you videos on this subject and found them both informative and enjoyable to watch. I have a really old Sonnet fountain pen and ballpoint. Both have very narrow gold bands on the cap where it joins the barrel. This pen was my daily writer for many years. I don’t need a daily writer now that I am retired, I rotate 8 of my favorite pens for the writing I do. Thanks for your videos I enjoy most of them
I just revisited this video, and have one thought to share. Let´s get this out of the way first: selling a fake as the real thing is wrong, no way out of it. Buuuut, this gets us uncomfortably close to an "Emperor's new clothes" situation: if a pen costs a few cents (maybe a few $) to produce, and gets us a nib tuning away from the real thing, what does it say about the 'real thing' that costs several hundred $?
That is a very good point. I've been curious about the actual cost to manufacture a pen versus its sale price. Sometimes I think you're paying for quality and longevity. The Baoer in this video has some corrosion after just a few years. Not so for the Parkers. But then I've restored some vintage pens that were the cheap pens of their day, and all they need is a new sac and some cleaning.
Yes there is some truth in this. Montblanc costs a fraction of its retail price to manufacture. Marketing, brand promotion, expensive brick and mortar boutiques all add to the cost. But it’s also true that making something 99% close to perfect costs twice as much as making it it 90% close to perfect. And that last percent costs twice as much as the previous 99% again. I have couple of Sonnet pens that are over 25 years old now. They still work well. Same will not be true for Chinese knock offs. I get more annoyed by luxury Italian pens that cost over $1000 and they have shabby fit and finish and laser engraving. Pens like Parker and Montblanc are worth it for me although I know that it would take a decade of heavy use to really see the difference.
I have the baoer 388 and is scratchy as well. Also i have the Jinhao 601 that looks exactly like Parker sonnet except for the grip. But i really like it, my favourite chinese pens, jinhao 601
there is even knock offs of knock offs like i had a hard time finding a wingsung 3008 a real one with a lamy nib and a round trip that was friction fit it was an interesting journey i went through 3 of them before finding the grail pen
It's interesting to see that. I had some knockoffs of the Chinese knockoffs of the Parker 51. The Chinese knockoffs were good, but the knockoffs of them were not.
The WS3008 is a tricky one. The -A model has a Pilot-style nib. Since then the market has been flooded with piston fillers claiming to be a 3008 yet clearly varying wildly in design. I recall hearing somewhere that Wing Sung have licensed the name or product number (or something like this) to other Chinese manufacturers and they are making these with permission, yet not changing the model number or name to reflect what is unique about their own product. It's a minefield for the new buyer.
@@WaskiSquirrel I've never heard of a convincing knock-off of the P51. There are many like the Hero 616 and the far better Jinhao 51A, but unless I've led a very sheltered life, I've not seen fake (rather than clone or homages / "inspired by") Parker 51s.
I bet the information available on “Fake Sonnets” is more than information available on Sonnets ! I’ve just bought a 2005 Limited edition ‘Christmas Pink Gold’ Sonnet.. Haven’t bothered to do a detailed inspection with the Hope that at least this Limited edition Sonnet wasn’t counterfeited !
I was very impressed by that pen. The finish feels rough, but the pen is actually pretty high quality. It fooled me for a while until I got a real Sonnet. And no, it does not dry out.
Two guilty parties here, in my view. The manufacturer who has clearly produced a forgery and the seller for aiding and abetting. However, there is an old saying "Let The Buyer Beware". Those fake Sonnets are very cheap on eBay which would be the first alarm bell to ring. Also, the seller will often declare "No Box". Again, alarm bells should be ringing in your head. "Why am I not getting a genuine Parker box?" Thirdly, I would be asking "How is it that someone from China is selling lots of cheap Parker Sonnets?" Well, probably because they aren't the real thing!
I agree on both counts. I don't know the story of the seller behind this pen, but if it's not a genuine Parker Sonnet, it should never advertise itself as such. There are some sellers which don't sell pens in the full boxes. My Pelikan m800 came in a plain cardboard sleeve. It was a reputable retailer, so I'm not sure how that worked. But overall, these are good hints that it might be a fake.
Just saw this video. Very nice. Before knowing about fake pens, I ordered "parker sonnet" and was very happy. Since then I realized that the prize was too good to be true. Sure enough, fake sonnet. Thanks for the video. The Baoer 388 may look like it, but is not a fake, its a Baoer.
Thank you for sharing this very insightful and informative video on the counterfeit Parker Sonnet fountain pens. I personally think that enthusiasts of fountain pens will be doing themselves a great disservice if they knowingly purchase such an item. In my opinion, fake fountain pens, even well made items such as the ones that were shown by you, are likely to take away all the genuine delight that accompany a hobby of collecting fountain pens or writing with such instruments. The collection and utilization of a few humble fountain pens (of respectable provenance) must provide more pleasure than owning a number of these glamorous looking doppelgängers! But what alarmed me was what a perfect art this counterfeit business have become. Just noticeable differences between the fake and the genuine were too little! The uninitiated and the beginners are likely to be fooled easily, and pay a hefty price for such a Parker Sonnet. In developing nations like (Bangladesh) my own country such fakes can find a ready market easily, and we frequently get fake Lamy Safaris and Parkers at retail outlets. I paid almost USD 14 for a fake Lamy converter which was so well-made that I took it to be the genuine article! In cities like Dhaka many retailers would mix a few fakes with a number of genuine articles to make some quick buck! Fake pens, Parkers particularly, surface again and again, and I have known friends who paid good money to own one of these.
Yes! I was fooled by the fake Sonnet. Fortunately I did not purchase it: it was given to me. But, without real Sonnets beside it to tell the difference....could I? I know this same thing shows up with designer clothing here. It's dishonest, and it would be upsetting to spend the money and not know its a fake.
I bought 388 after watching video by JPL in which he had high praise for it. What an utter disappointment. It has Fine nib, which is super wet to the point that ink is still smudgy over a minute after writing. I found it way less pleasant to write with than Wing Sung 3008 and 6359 or Jinhao 992s with Fine nibs that i have. Also, the nib dries out fairly quickly even though the cap has inner liner and seems to be air tight. There's something that i haven't noticed in other pens. After several days not only did it have hard start, the ink also got VERY dark. I had it inked with Diamine Claret but it looked almost like Eclipse and only returned to normal color after 8 or 9 lines. Which leads me to believe that the ink dries even in the feed inside section, not just around the nib. It's hard to be too critical about something that costs less that 2 euros. But even at that price point there are better options. I have also noticed similar behaviour in Baoer 051 Medium but it doesn't even have air tight cap.
I think the 388s are inconsistent. Mine doesn't have the problem you describe, it's just scratchy. It also doesn't dry out like yours. But I have seen the drying out problem with other Chinese pens. Then there are others which are amazing.
@@WaskiSquirrel I think same can be said about many Chinese pens. I absolutely love my Wing Sung 3008. It didn't dry even after being forgotten in back pack for over a week, nib up. I have read many people complaining about 3008 leaking ink, drying out, having misaligned tines etc. One of my favorite among cheap pens is Jinhao 992. Apart from chronic barrel cracking issue all have beautiful smooth nibs and are writing like a dream. Meanwhile some people complain about scratchy nibs or poor ink flow.
Just bought 3 Parker Sonnet ballpoints on ebay for around AUD$18 each. No box included. They won't arrive until next week, but I am a touch worried. Still, 99.2% positive on over 7,000 feedback helps. We will see...
@@WaskiSquirrel I should update... My pens were fake, fake, FAKE! I ordered a matte black with gold trim, a tartan gold, and a red with gold trim. Shoddily made all around, especially the black one. The spot where the clip joins the barrel is not even close to being centred properly! I messaged the seller asking for real Parkers or a refund. No reply. I submitted a formal request for a refund. No reply. Ebay granted me a FULL refund after a few days. Now I have three fake Parkers on my desk, no clue what to do with them. Might just take them to work and leave them in the pen jar... Moral of the story - if something seems to good to be true, it often is. Someone is selling a vintage Duofold ballpoint for AUD$85. might jump on that...
I think this will always be polarising but I take the view that something not claiming to be the other item is generally OK unless it is such s blatant ripoff or they've clearly stepped over into intellectual property theft. I have several Baoer 388s which I bought with a clear conscience as they are not branded as anything other than what they are. I also have a couple of these fake sonnets (date code IIIQ is the big giveaway) that I bought when first getting into this hobby a year ago. I didn't know what a sonnet was, only that I remembered from my childhood about Parker being a stable reliable brand. I saw vectors for similar costs so I just assumed. I eventually did buy two genuine sonnets, or at least I bought them in good faith as genuine and they appear to be so. Basically on my initial purchase I was taken in by misleading and fraudulent advertising, and I inadvertently helped to feed that industry by buying them. This makes me uncomfortable. I think, from the buyer perspective, it is about intent. If you buy something because you know no better and believe what you are told, the fault rests on others. If you're the seller and are deliberately passing off then you've overstepped. If you're selling second hand, based on your genuine belief in it being legitimate, it's a fuzzier line. I liken this to another of my hobbies, fossil collecting. I'm mainly all about trilobites and, at least initially, I would go with what a seller says. If they described a fossil as XYZ then I assumed it was correctly identified - important from a morphology standpoint - and that it was not a reproduction. Over time I learned that something looking too good, too intact, too polished is probably at least retouched and at worst, a replica. Only with time and a painfully learned sense of mistrust did I become a wiser buyer.
Any time I bring up this topic, I can always be sure that there will be some controversy in the comments! I think your line is right. I don't mind pens like the Baoer. Some pens like that are even an improvement on the originals. But, absolutely, when a seller or penmaker makes it look like or even claim it is something it is not, that is wrong. Interesting about the fossils! I've always found them interesting, but never owned any. I've printed a few replicas on the 3D printer, and I think that would be interesting, especially for teaching evolution: a rural school like mine will never have a large fossil collection. Of course, these will not pass for the real thing.
@@WaskiSquirrel I think much of the controversy stems from it being a fairly fluid topic. So many clones of clones, variants, I guess there is only so much you can do with designing a fountain pen from an operational angle before you repeat yourself, so some amount of conscious or unconscious imitation is inevitable. For fossils, a good first guide is to look for cracks, breaks and glueing. These are actually a fair sign of authenticity in many cases since this is how the fossil is first discovered. Crack open some limestone, find the fossil, put it back together then use various techniques to reveal what's inside. My main interest is trilobites and there's a massive industry in Moroccan ones that may or may not be genuine. As long as you keep an eye on your budget and, at least in terms of trilobites, avoid the massively elaborate spiny ones as they will almost certainly be fakes (the real deal costing many thousands) you should be OK. If coming at this from an educational angle then I suppose authenticity is not that essential. More important is the development of the genus, family, the branch as a whole. How it was shaped by environmental factors, the evolutionary pressures it encountered and how it responded. Getting even more niche, look into the development of vision in some genera, complex vision and repetitive hexagonal structures, lenses made from calcite, and perhaps most interesting of all from a study angle, is development of secondary loss of vision when it no longer had an advantage. They started off blind, many developed complex vision, then towards the end of their 250 million year span, many once more became secondarily blind. Ask your pupils, in evolutionary terms, why might that be? Set fertile young minds thinking. It could yield interesting perspectives...
In the back of my mind, I seem to remember that China took over the plant Parker had there, and for a long time, maybe still, used actual Parker equipment to make fountain pens, several of which were identical to Parker pens because, well, they really are Parker pens in a sense, though there were sometimes minor differences. . Could this be one of those? As for eBay, I don't trust anyone on there unless I know them, or unless they also have a reputable brick and mortar store, or a large web presence outside of eBay, and are trusted by experts. Just to use your numbers, I'd rather pay seven hundred for a sure thing than two hundred for a maybe. I've seen too many fakes sold by "highly reputable" dealers. I grew up in the antique and collectable arena, and quickly learned unscrupulous people can and will fake almost anything. I've even seen fake comic books, and this was back before anyone had a desktop computer or home printers. Many of these fakes get past the "experts". Worse, sometimes the highly reputable experts discover an item is a fake, but rather than take the loss, they sell it as the real thing. This is frighteningly common.
I think you're right about the Parker plant in China. I should have talked about it in the video. This pen is truly a fake, made to look like a Parker and bearing the name. Most Chinese pens clearly identify themselves even if they bear a lot of similarity. To be fair, I know the history of my Sheaffer Legacy. It does not preclude its being a fake, but makes it unlikely. And there is a lot of other stuff in the box that would have to be faked. But you make a good overall point. After all, I was fooled by a fake Parker Sonnet despite obvious signs that it was a fake. Luckily, I paid no money for it.
So I have a fake sonnet. Learned my lesson. IIIQ. Thank you for this information and good I bought it used for almost nothing which was an indicator. It unscrews and srews very nicely. Seems solid and tight BUT doesn't write! Ink doesn't flow through somehow. Garbage. I have a new Waterman graduate and it's great. But why are sonnets faked so much? One of the best pens out there?
I'm glad my video was helpful, but I am sorry to hear that you got one of the fakes. It surprises me as well that it's faked so much. It's a good pen, but hardly one people are lining up to buy.
Since you can get a decent chinese pen like the Jinhao x450 for a few bucks, I don't expect a writing disaster from a fake pen. It's more about the fact that you paid money for a genuine article and received a fake one instead, probably of a lesser quality (finish, turning, materials etc.) than the original. I have no problems with a pen that was inspired by a classic model. Take the Wing Sung 626 which looks like a Sheaffer Balance but has a different filling mechanism and it states "Wing Sung" on the clip. There are even people that make fake Lamy Safaris (precise copies without the Lamy logo and from a lesser material)! I can see the point in faking a Montblanc 146 but faking a $20 pen? BTW I remembered buying a Parker Sonnet (steel nib) on ebay eleven years ago for about $25. Watching your video I rushed to check it and I was relieved to be able to verify that is a genuine Sonnet. I didn't use it for some time now as although I consider the design timeless it also starts feeling a bit boring to me.
Well dont forget how 20-30 dollars is a lot, considering they can make look alikes for pennies man. Lami sells 10 million pens a year! They wanted a piece of the action! My point is $20 IS a lot to pay for a friggin 3 dollar pen haha
The Sonnet is a timeless design, but I can see why it would be boring. Parker has not been doing anything exciting for a while. I think we agree on the pens like the 626. I have some pens that took the Parker 51 design and created what I consider a better pen.
I like those Baoer 388s. I am OK with those. I didn't even know that they were supposed to be a Parker knockoff when I bought them. The fake being sold as real - that's iffy. I'm here because I saw a Parker Sonnet on amazon.ca for $42 last night. The real thing goes for $160 Canadian. The morality gets questionable here. You should know that there is something wrong with a price difference like that. Now if they were selling a fake for $160 - that should be prosecuted. The cheap fake, well, you're not so smart if you don't catch that.
The Baoer 388s are good pens! Similar to the Parker, but I think a different clip would hide that. And, yes, those fakes are problematic. They are claiming to be something they are not.
Westerners generally don't level the 'fake' accusation at other western companies who make pens 'inspired' or 'paying homage' to popular designs. I suspect much of the friction with eastern manufacturers comes from collectors worried the steadily improving quality will affect the value of their pens.
I don't mind pens like the Baoer 388. It clearly identifies what it is. Some of these homage pens actually improve on the original: I have some great Chinese pens that are clear improvements on the Parker 51. I'll lay out "fake" when it identifies itself as something it is not.
@@WaskiSquirrel I agree. Actively misleading someone is obviously wrong, but I'm fine with almost anything else. I meant that the accusation of 'fake' is often coloured with other issues.
I despise fakes, imitations, and knockoffs. You can call them a homage if it makes you feel better, but they are cheap imitations. One needs to give credit to the company that did the research, design, and manufacturing of the real one. I won’t buy the fake of imitation.
Some are just imitations. But I've been impressed by some of the pens that take the basic idea of a Parker 51. Several of them are actual improvements on the original. They clearly identify their brand, but I don't like that they use the Parker clip.
The bite marks on my esterbrook are probably 50 years old, i think its real ^^ That clip having the feathers on the clip is a little sketchy. But its far from writing parker on it! I dont like "fakes" eigther!
I know there were some companies riding the Esterbrook coattails. I don't know if any actually claimed to be Esterbrooks. I agree: I wish Baoer would use a different clip, but at least they're not claiming to be something they're not.
Thank you Jason . For me the faking pens is something I find completely wrong , I have many sonnets none to my knowledge are fake but they are older models mostly but i could have a fake I guess. The baero 388 i consider to be an inspired by but it does fly very close to the original & some may have a problem with that, i don't as you are clearly buying a Baero & not a parker.
What surprised me the most is that your Baoer was scratchy. I have a couple and they all came in silky smootha and are just really great pens for the price. As for fake pens yeah it's wrong but also keep in mind that China is one of Parker's largest sources of revenue AND fountain pens in general are just more popular in asian countries. I'm not trying to say that fakes are ok just that these chinese fakes were designed to steal money from the Chinese market and not aimed at US consumers ... well atleast not initially. Here's a good artcle from China Daily ... www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2016-05/18/content_25336153.htm
Thank you for the article. I have trouble with taking another name. I'm okay if they say what they are. Interesting that the fakes are targeted to the Chinese market. Even so, I think that's wrong.
Yes! anytime something is being sold as something it's not is wrong. BUT some things like the completly fake parker pens are actually illegal in China and is somethig that they are fighting against. Other things, like nearly identical luxury items that do NOT label themselves the same are often "legal". Like if your fake pen said Parkur instead of Parker it "might" be legal in China. Honestly I don't really undertand it all but there is a Chinese patent system that is not the same as the Interntaional patent system so things get a lot squishy.
My fake Parker is better than your fake Parker. Long live Fake Parker! I'll get one in every color. Real Parker people are doing a crappy enough job all by themselves recreating their classics - for obscene amounts of money.
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
I watched two of you videos on this subject and found them both informative and enjoyable to watch. I have a really old Sonnet fountain pen and ballpoint. Both have very narrow gold bands on the cap where it joins the barrel. This pen was my daily writer for many years. I don’t need a daily writer now that I am retired, I rotate 8 of my favorite pens for the writing I do. Thanks for your videos I enjoy most of them
I'm glad you enjoyed this! The Sonnet is a great pen and ends up in my hand quite often!
I just revisited this video, and have one thought to share.
Let´s get this out of the way first: selling a fake as the real thing is wrong, no way out of it.
Buuuut, this gets us uncomfortably close to an "Emperor's new clothes" situation: if a pen costs a few cents (maybe a few $) to produce, and gets us a nib tuning away from the real thing, what does it say about the 'real thing' that costs several hundred $?
That is a very good point. I've been curious about the actual cost to manufacture a pen versus its sale price. Sometimes I think you're paying for quality and longevity. The Baoer in this video has some corrosion after just a few years. Not so for the Parkers. But then I've restored some vintage pens that were the cheap pens of their day, and all they need is a new sac and some cleaning.
Yes there is some truth in this. Montblanc costs a fraction of its retail price to manufacture. Marketing, brand promotion, expensive brick and mortar boutiques all add to the cost. But it’s also true that making something 99% close to perfect costs twice as much as making it it 90% close to perfect. And that last percent costs twice as much as the previous 99% again.
I have couple of Sonnet pens that are over 25 years old now. They still work well. Same will not be true for Chinese knock offs.
I get more annoyed by luxury Italian pens that cost over $1000 and they have shabby fit and finish and laser engraving.
Pens like Parker and Montblanc are worth it for me although I know that it would take a decade of heavy use to really see the difference.
I have the baoer 388 and is scratchy as well. Also i have the Jinhao 601 that looks exactly like Parker sonnet except for the grip. But i really like it, my favourite chinese pens, jinhao 601
We agree on the 388. I don't think I've tried the Jinhao 601.
there is even knock offs of knock offs like i had a hard time finding a wingsung 3008 a real one with a lamy nib and a round trip that was friction fit it was an interesting journey i went through 3 of them before finding the grail pen
It's interesting to see that. I had some knockoffs of the Chinese knockoffs of the Parker 51. The Chinese knockoffs were good, but the knockoffs of them were not.
The WS3008 is a tricky one. The -A model has a Pilot-style nib. Since then the market has been flooded with piston fillers claiming to be a 3008 yet clearly varying wildly in design. I recall hearing somewhere that Wing Sung have licensed the name or product number (or something like this) to other Chinese manufacturers and they are making these with permission, yet not changing the model number or name to reflect what is unique about their own product. It's a minefield for the new buyer.
@@WaskiSquirrel I've never heard of a convincing knock-off of the P51. There are many like the Hero 616 and the far better Jinhao 51A, but unless I've led a very sheltered life, I've not seen fake (rather than clone or homages / "inspired by") Parker 51s.
@@bikkies True! None are of the quality of the original Parker 51.
I bet the information available on “Fake Sonnets” is more than information available on Sonnets !
I’ve just bought a 2005 Limited edition ‘Christmas Pink Gold’ Sonnet.. Haven’t bothered to do a detailed inspection with the Hope that at least this Limited edition Sonnet wasn’t counterfeited !
I'm not very familiar with the Limited editions in the Sonnet world! But I suspect Limited editions are less likely to be counterfeited.
Does the fake sonnet nib dry out ?
I was very impressed by that pen. The finish feels rough, but the pen is actually pretty high quality. It fooled me for a while until I got a real Sonnet. And no, it does not dry out.
Two guilty parties here, in my view. The manufacturer who has clearly produced a forgery and the seller for aiding and abetting. However, there is an old saying "Let The Buyer Beware". Those fake Sonnets are very cheap on eBay which would be the first alarm bell to ring. Also, the seller will often declare "No Box". Again, alarm bells should be ringing in your head. "Why am I not getting a genuine Parker box?" Thirdly, I would be asking "How is it that someone from China is selling lots of cheap Parker Sonnets?" Well, probably because they aren't the real thing!
I agree on both counts. I don't know the story of the seller behind this pen, but if it's not a genuine Parker Sonnet, it should never advertise itself as such.
There are some sellers which don't sell pens in the full boxes. My Pelikan m800 came in a plain cardboard sleeve. It was a reputable retailer, so I'm not sure how that worked. But overall, these are good hints that it might be a fake.
Just saw this video. Very nice. Before knowing about fake pens, I ordered "parker sonnet" and was very happy. Since then I realized that the prize was too good to be true. Sure enough, fake sonnet. Thanks for the video. The Baoer 388 may look like it, but is not a fake, its a Baoer.
I appreciate what Baoer did. Manufacturers should never claim to be something they are not.
They've been faking Parker Sonnets for almost 20 years, really tough to buy on eBay sometimes..
I'm always leery of buying new pens on eBay for that reason.
Thank you for sharing this very insightful and informative video on the counterfeit Parker Sonnet fountain pens. I personally think that enthusiasts of fountain pens will be doing themselves a great disservice if they knowingly purchase such an item. In my opinion, fake fountain pens, even well made items such as the ones that were shown by you, are likely to take away all the genuine delight that accompany a hobby of collecting fountain pens or writing with such instruments. The collection and utilization of a few humble fountain pens (of respectable provenance) must provide more pleasure than owning a number of these glamorous looking doppelgängers! But what alarmed me was what a perfect art this counterfeit business have become. Just noticeable differences between the fake and the genuine were too little! The uninitiated and the beginners are likely to be fooled easily, and pay a hefty price for such a Parker Sonnet. In developing nations like (Bangladesh) my own country such fakes can find a ready market easily, and we frequently get fake Lamy Safaris and Parkers at retail outlets. I paid almost USD 14 for a fake Lamy converter which was so well-made that I took it to be the genuine article! In cities like Dhaka many retailers would mix a few fakes with a number of genuine articles to make some quick buck! Fake pens, Parkers particularly, surface again and again, and I have known friends who paid good money to own one of these.
Yes! I was fooled by the fake Sonnet. Fortunately I did not purchase it: it was given to me. But, without real Sonnets beside it to tell the difference....could I?
I know this same thing shows up with designer clothing here. It's dishonest, and it would be upsetting to spend the money and not know its a fake.
Just bought 3 of these, knew it was too good to be true but I hope they write well. I only care if they don't work
That's a danger with buying online. You never know for sure if it will work or how well you'll like it.
I bought 388 after watching video by JPL in which he had high praise for it. What an utter disappointment. It has Fine nib, which is super wet to the point that ink is still smudgy over a minute after writing. I found it way less pleasant to write with than Wing Sung 3008 and 6359 or Jinhao 992s with Fine nibs that i have. Also, the nib dries out fairly quickly even though the cap has inner liner and seems to be air tight. There's something that i haven't noticed in other pens. After several days not only did it have hard start, the ink also got VERY dark. I had it inked with Diamine Claret but it looked almost like Eclipse and only returned to normal color after 8 or 9 lines. Which leads me to believe that the ink dries even in the feed inside section, not just around the nib.
It's hard to be too critical about something that costs less that 2 euros. But even at that price point there are better options. I have also noticed similar behaviour in Baoer 051 Medium but it doesn't even have air tight cap.
I think the 388s are inconsistent. Mine doesn't have the problem you describe, it's just scratchy. It also doesn't dry out like yours. But I have seen the drying out problem with other Chinese pens. Then there are others which are amazing.
@@WaskiSquirrel I think same can be said about many Chinese pens. I absolutely love my Wing Sung 3008. It didn't dry even after being forgotten in back pack for over a week, nib up. I have read many people complaining about 3008 leaking ink, drying out, having misaligned tines etc. One of my favorite among cheap pens is Jinhao 992. Apart from chronic barrel cracking issue all have beautiful smooth nibs and are writing like a dream. Meanwhile some people complain about scratchy nibs or poor ink flow.
Just bought 3 Parker Sonnet ballpoints on ebay for around AUD$18 each. No box included. They won't arrive until next week, but I am a touch worried. Still, 99.2% positive on over 7,000 feedback helps. We will see...
That does sound pretty low cost...hopefully it turns out well!
@@WaskiSquirrel I should update... My pens were fake, fake, FAKE! I ordered a matte black with gold trim, a tartan gold, and a red with gold trim. Shoddily made all around, especially the black one. The spot where the clip joins the barrel is not even close to being centred properly! I messaged the seller asking for real Parkers or a refund. No reply. I submitted a formal request for a refund. No reply. Ebay granted me a FULL refund after a few days. Now I have three fake Parkers on my desk, no clue what to do with them. Might just take them to work and leave them in the pen jar... Moral of the story - if something seems to good to be true, it often is. Someone is selling a vintage Duofold ballpoint for AUD$85. might jump on that...
I think this will always be polarising but I take the view that something not claiming to be the other item is generally OK unless it is such s blatant ripoff or they've clearly stepped over into intellectual property theft. I have several Baoer 388s which I bought with a clear conscience as they are not branded as anything other than what they are. I also have a couple of these fake sonnets (date code IIIQ is the big giveaway) that I bought when first getting into this hobby a year ago. I didn't know what a sonnet was, only that I remembered from my childhood about Parker being a stable reliable brand. I saw vectors for similar costs so I just assumed. I eventually did buy two genuine sonnets, or at least I bought them in good faith as genuine and they appear to be so. Basically on my initial purchase I was taken in by misleading and fraudulent advertising, and I inadvertently helped to feed that industry by buying them. This makes me uncomfortable. I think, from the buyer perspective, it is about intent. If you buy something because you know no better and believe what you are told, the fault rests on others. If you're the seller and are deliberately passing off then you've overstepped. If you're selling second hand, based on your genuine belief in it being legitimate, it's a fuzzier line.
I liken this to another of my hobbies, fossil collecting. I'm mainly all about trilobites and, at least initially, I would go with what a seller says. If they described a fossil as XYZ then I assumed it was correctly identified - important from a morphology standpoint - and that it was not a reproduction. Over time I learned that something looking too good, too intact, too polished is probably at least retouched and at worst, a replica. Only with time and a painfully learned sense of mistrust did I become a wiser buyer.
Any time I bring up this topic, I can always be sure that there will be some controversy in the comments! I think your line is right. I don't mind pens like the Baoer. Some pens like that are even an improvement on the originals. But, absolutely, when a seller or penmaker makes it look like or even claim it is something it is not, that is wrong.
Interesting about the fossils! I've always found them interesting, but never owned any. I've printed a few replicas on the 3D printer, and I think that would be interesting, especially for teaching evolution: a rural school like mine will never have a large fossil collection. Of course, these will not pass for the real thing.
@@WaskiSquirrel I think much of the controversy stems from it being a fairly fluid topic. So many clones of clones, variants, I guess there is only so much you can do with designing a fountain pen from an operational angle before you repeat yourself, so some amount of conscious or unconscious imitation is inevitable.
For fossils, a good first guide is to look for cracks, breaks and glueing. These are actually a fair sign of authenticity in many cases since this is how the fossil is first discovered. Crack open some limestone, find the fossil, put it back together then use various techniques to reveal what's inside. My main interest is trilobites and there's a massive industry in Moroccan ones that may or may not be genuine. As long as you keep an eye on your budget and, at least in terms of trilobites, avoid the massively elaborate spiny ones as they will almost certainly be fakes (the real deal costing many thousands) you should be OK. If coming at this from an educational angle then I suppose authenticity is not that essential. More important is the development of the genus, family, the branch as a whole. How it was shaped by environmental factors, the evolutionary pressures it encountered and how it responded. Getting even more niche, look into the development of vision in some genera, complex vision and repetitive hexagonal structures, lenses made from calcite, and perhaps most interesting of all from a study angle, is development of secondary loss of vision when it no longer had an advantage. They started off blind, many developed complex vision, then towards the end of their 250 million year span, many once more became secondarily blind. Ask your pupils, in evolutionary terms, why might that be? Set fertile young minds thinking. It could yield interesting perspectives...
In the back of my mind, I seem to remember that China took over the plant Parker had there, and for a long time, maybe still, used actual Parker equipment to make fountain pens, several of which were identical to Parker pens because, well, they really are Parker pens in a sense, though there were sometimes minor differences. . Could this be one of those?
As for eBay, I don't trust anyone on there unless I know them, or unless they also have a reputable brick and mortar store, or a large web presence outside of eBay, and are trusted by experts. Just to use your numbers, I'd rather pay seven hundred for a sure thing than two hundred for a maybe. I've seen too many fakes sold by "highly reputable" dealers.
I grew up in the antique and collectable arena, and quickly learned unscrupulous people can and will fake almost anything. I've even seen fake comic books, and this was back before anyone had a desktop computer or home printers. Many of these fakes get past the "experts". Worse, sometimes the highly reputable experts discover an item is a fake, but rather than take the loss, they sell it as the real thing. This is frighteningly common.
I think you're right about the Parker plant in China. I should have talked about it in the video. This pen is truly a fake, made to look like a Parker and bearing the name. Most Chinese pens clearly identify themselves even if they bear a lot of similarity.
To be fair, I know the history of my Sheaffer Legacy. It does not preclude its being a fake, but makes it unlikely. And there is a lot of other stuff in the box that would have to be faked. But you make a good overall point. After all, I was fooled by a fake Parker Sonnet despite obvious signs that it was a fake. Luckily, I paid no money for it.
One big advantage of the baoer and sonnet copies is the price...good ever day carry pens.lose them and you dont get upset!!!
That is a good point!
Interesting comparison of the fake and real pen ,interesting topic for review ,i want admit this. and to see more videos like this.👍
I should compare the Parker 51 to some of the Chinese versions coming out now.
So I have a fake sonnet. Learned my lesson. IIIQ. Thank you for this information and good I bought it used for almost nothing which was an indicator. It unscrews and srews very nicely. Seems solid and tight BUT doesn't write! Ink doesn't flow through somehow. Garbage. I have a new Waterman graduate and it's great.
But why are sonnets faked so much? One of the best pens out there?
I'm glad my video was helpful, but I am sorry to hear that you got one of the fakes. It surprises me as well that it's faked so much. It's a good pen, but hardly one people are lining up to buy.
That fake converter may be genuine. They are not expensive compared to the actual pen.
Good point.
Since you can get a decent chinese pen like the Jinhao x450 for a few bucks, I don't expect a writing disaster from a fake pen. It's more about the fact that you paid money for a genuine article and received a fake one instead, probably of a lesser quality (finish, turning, materials etc.) than the original.
I have no problems with a pen that was inspired by a classic model. Take the Wing Sung 626 which looks like a Sheaffer Balance but has a different filling mechanism and it states "Wing Sung" on the clip.
There are even people that make fake Lamy Safaris (precise copies without the Lamy logo and from a lesser material)! I can see the point in faking a Montblanc 146 but faking a $20 pen?
BTW I remembered buying a Parker Sonnet (steel nib) on ebay eleven years ago for about $25. Watching your video I rushed to check it and I was relieved to be able to verify that is a genuine Sonnet. I didn't use it for some time now as although I consider the design timeless it also starts feeling a bit boring to me.
Well dont forget how 20-30 dollars is a lot, considering they can make look alikes for pennies man. Lami sells 10 million pens a year! They wanted a piece of the action!
My point is $20 IS a lot to pay for a friggin 3 dollar pen haha
The Sonnet is a timeless design, but I can see why it would be boring. Parker has not been doing anything exciting for a while.
I think we agree on the pens like the 626. I have some pens that took the Parker 51 design and created what I consider a better pen.
What I've seen is that the Lamy pens are better made and seem to have better fit and finish overall.
I like those Baoer 388s. I am OK with those. I didn't even know that they were supposed to be a Parker knockoff when I bought them. The fake being sold as real - that's iffy.
I'm here because I saw a Parker Sonnet on amazon.ca for $42 last night. The real thing goes for $160 Canadian. The morality gets questionable here. You should know that there is something wrong with a price difference like that. Now if they were selling a fake for $160 - that should be prosecuted. The cheap fake, well, you're not so smart if you don't catch that.
The Baoer 388s are good pens! Similar to the Parker, but I think a different clip would hide that.
And, yes, those fakes are problematic. They are claiming to be something they are not.
Westerners generally don't level the 'fake' accusation at other western companies who make pens 'inspired' or 'paying homage' to popular designs. I suspect much of the friction with eastern manufacturers comes from collectors worried the steadily improving quality will affect the value of their pens.
I don't mind pens like the Baoer 388. It clearly identifies what it is. Some of these homage pens actually improve on the original: I have some great Chinese pens that are clear improvements on the Parker 51.
I'll lay out "fake" when it identifies itself as something it is not.
@@WaskiSquirrel I agree. Actively misleading someone is obviously wrong, but I'm fine with almost anything else. I meant that the accusation of 'fake' is often coloured with other issues.
I have a fake sonnet, but it's a more refined copy than yours.
To be fair, I was fooled for a while by mine...
I despise fakes, imitations, and knockoffs. You can call them a homage if it makes you feel better, but they are cheap imitations. One needs to give credit to the company that did the research, design, and manufacturing of the real one. I won’t buy the fake of imitation.
Some are just imitations. But I've been impressed by some of the pens that take the basic idea of a Parker 51. Several of them are actual improvements on the original. They clearly identify their brand, but I don't like that they use the Parker clip.
The bite marks on my esterbrook are probably 50 years old, i think its real ^^
That clip having the feathers on the clip is a little sketchy. But its far from writing parker on it! I dont like "fakes" eigther!
I know there were some companies riding the Esterbrook coattails. I don't know if any actually claimed to be Esterbrooks.
I agree: I wish Baoer would use a different clip, but at least they're not claiming to be something they're not.
Thank you Jason . For me the faking pens is something I find completely wrong , I have many sonnets none to my knowledge are fake but they are older models mostly but i could have a fake I guess. The baero 388 i consider to be an inspired by but it does fly very close to the original & some may have a problem with that, i don't as you are clearly buying a Baero & not a parker.
I wish the Baoer had a different clip. Otherwise, I think it's fine. As you say: the buyer knows what they are getting.
@@WaskiSquirrel Yeah if they had fitted a different clip it would sit better with me because it is a copy but having said that i still have one. :-)
Nice shirt sir.
Thanks!
@@WaskiSquirrel welcome
What surprised me the most is that your Baoer was scratchy. I have a couple and they all came in silky smootha and are just really great pens for the price.
As for fake pens yeah it's wrong but also keep in mind that China is one of Parker's largest sources of revenue AND fountain pens in general are just more popular in asian countries. I'm not trying to say that fakes are ok just that these chinese fakes were designed to steal money from the Chinese market and not aimed at US consumers ... well atleast not initially.
Here's a good artcle from China Daily ... www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/2016-05/18/content_25336153.htm
Thank you for the article. I have trouble with taking another name. I'm okay if they say what they are. Interesting that the fakes are targeted to the Chinese market. Even so, I think that's wrong.
Yes! anytime something is being sold as something it's not is wrong. BUT some things like the completly fake parker pens are actually illegal in China and is somethig that they are fighting against.
Other things, like nearly identical luxury items that do NOT label themselves the same are often "legal". Like if your fake pen said Parkur instead of Parker it "might" be legal in China.
Honestly I don't really undertand it all but there is a Chinese patent system that is not the same as the Interntaional patent system so things get a lot squishy.
i have both but the original its a way better
I agree with you! Even the steel nib is better than the fake.
@@WaskiSquirrel yeah and the stamp on my fake nib's it's horrible.
Ambambuè
@@francescomotolese4644 My stamp was pretty good, but the finish on the barrel was not.
My fake Parker is better than your fake Parker. Long live Fake Parker! I'll get one in every color. Real Parker people are doing a crappy enough job all by themselves recreating their classics - for obscene amounts of money.
I don't mind if it's a pen like the Baoer. When they say they're Parker but they're not, I have a problem with that.