I’m not a scout sniper but just as an 03 and understanding the environment, especially the hardships these guys are talking about. It’s refreshing to see people not talk a bunch of bs and be genuine about their craft.
This podcast was awesome. I was never "real" sniper, just a PIG for four years, but I really enjoyed hearing Skinta explain why the battalion level snipers went away. There were a lot of problems with the community evident at the PIG level. Frankly, a lot of the East/West coast platoons that just threw brand-new PIGs straight out of their indocs at the wall of School really fucked the community. One, by taking slots from dudes who may have already deployed with their platoons, and Two, by artificially raising the attrition rate of SSBC by sending unqualified Marines. They only got away with it because of the organizational MESS that was trying to get people to schools, if I were on the coasts I would've slapped every PIG down there on standby as well, but it didn't do the community any favors in the brass' eyes, and is probably why they came up with Pre-Sniper in the first place. So from a battalion or regimental or even divisional level, all you see snipers do outside of wartime is exist on a hilltop as a dot on a map. At most in ITX, MCCRE, etc they see a dot that may or may not do a handover of fires, and in my experience the coastal platoons couldn't call worth a fuck through no fault of their own, unless they went to JFO course they maybe called mortars ONCE, at SSBC. Obviously I'm biased as a 29 Stumps PIG, but by the first three months in my platoon I'd called arty, rotary, and fixed wing with the help of a JTAC. From a BC stand point, I would also be wondering, "Why am I putting up with these cowboys constantly bucking me over shit like boots when all I(as a BC) get is a couple recon reports per op in return?" Another huge problem was the gatekeeping. I don't mean PT, that's not the question, the question I had for my instructors at pre-sniper on the west coast in 2016 was, "Why are we thrashing for half the day when we're training UKD?" Half of our day was spent doing stupid shit like go grab a leaf from the tree of knowledge, go find POLs non-stop, we wasted EASILY half of our average day training just thrashing, and for what? To keep the attrition rate high at SSBC to preserve a status? Obviously you have to have your bulletproof Fridays, you have to have your Stop Signs(any Pendleton Pre-Sniper guys know what I'm saying), but to waste training time on thrashing was frustrating as someone who truly wanted and NEEDED the practice to pass SSBC. Stalking was the absolute best part of training because there was no wasted time and you felt like you were developing real skills, but ask me if I put on a ghillie in my two deployments with SPMAGTF to CENTCOM. Lol. Rambled a bit there, but thanks again. Really enjoyed the insight into higher and enjoyed the conversation, great podcast. As a sidenote I absolutely loved the story of the SGTMJ pussying out on that op, reminded me of a time when the BC/SGTMJ came out to a FSTX we were doing in the FREEZING cold in 29, they stayed about 20 fucking minutes TOPS before they left. Gotta love it. Semper
As an addition, I would REALLY like to hear what Skinta or you would think of the USMC changing Scout/Sniper course to be more like the Army's in the sense that, from what I understand, in the Army, the course is graded as an average over the entirety of the course. That lets even people who may fail an event continue the training, continue getting the skills, and then if they fail they fail but they got the training. SSBC from a commanders standpoint seems like a MASSIVE waste of time when you spend all this effort to send your Marine, and he fails Land Nav, and gets ZERO value out of the effort. Why is everything a go-home event? I get keeping the standards high, but maybe sending a Marine home that went 7/8 on land nav but may be a rock star in other areas, ISN'T a service to the Corps, maybe, it's a service to the tooth. I know I'll catch MAJOR flak from this idea from HOGs that detest the idea of anyone that didn't go through what they went through get "the title", but the focus of the sniper community I THOUGHT when I joined was to fight wars, not protect a necklace, or replicate hazing they went through that may or may NOT have been effective at PRODUCING A TRAINED PRODUCT, the GOAL of a school.
They did that when I went through school in 2005. Unless you Drop On Request or quit, guys were permitted to continue training but wouldn’t receive a graduation certificate. They would generally be offered a second attempt to pick up with another class and try again to get certified. You’re absolutely right, it’s about making war fighters, not playing games with titles.
@@zacharybenton7144 that's actually fascinating. By the time I went through in 2017, every event was a go-home event. Failed land nav? Goodbye. Failed shooting? Goodbye. Almost all the drops in the course were from those 2 events alone on the West Coast. Massive, massive waste of time and money for everyone.
Absolutely love what your doing keep on going
I’m not a scout sniper but just as an 03 and understanding the environment, especially the hardships these guys are talking about. It’s refreshing to see people not talk a bunch of bs and be genuine about their craft.
Hawaii school house is best school house. It is known.
Good job Mic. Charlie 1/8
This podcast was awesome. I was never "real" sniper, just a PIG for four years, but I really enjoyed hearing Skinta explain why the battalion level snipers went away. There were a lot of problems with the community evident at the PIG level. Frankly, a lot of the East/West coast platoons that just threw brand-new PIGs straight out of their indocs at the wall of School really fucked the community. One, by taking slots from dudes who may have already deployed with their platoons, and Two, by artificially raising the attrition rate of SSBC by sending unqualified Marines. They only got away with it because of the organizational MESS that was trying to get people to schools, if I were on the coasts I would've slapped every PIG down there on standby as well, but it didn't do the community any favors in the brass' eyes, and is probably why they came up with Pre-Sniper in the first place.
So from a battalion or regimental or even divisional level, all you see snipers do outside of wartime is exist on a hilltop as a dot on a map. At most in ITX, MCCRE, etc they see a dot that may or may not do a handover of fires, and in my experience the coastal platoons couldn't call worth a fuck through no fault of their own, unless they went to JFO course they maybe called mortars ONCE, at SSBC. Obviously I'm biased as a 29 Stumps PIG, but by the first three months in my platoon I'd called arty, rotary, and fixed wing with the help of a JTAC. From a BC stand point, I would also be wondering, "Why am I putting up with these cowboys constantly bucking me over shit like boots when all I(as a BC) get is a couple recon reports per op in return?"
Another huge problem was the gatekeeping. I don't mean PT, that's not the question, the question I had for my instructors at pre-sniper on the west coast in 2016 was, "Why are we thrashing for half the day when we're training UKD?" Half of our day was spent doing stupid shit like go grab a leaf from the tree of knowledge, go find POLs non-stop, we wasted EASILY half of our average day training just thrashing, and for what? To keep the attrition rate high at SSBC to preserve a status? Obviously you have to have your bulletproof Fridays, you have to have your Stop Signs(any Pendleton Pre-Sniper guys know what I'm saying), but to waste training time on thrashing was frustrating as someone who truly wanted and NEEDED the practice to pass SSBC. Stalking was the absolute best part of training because there was no wasted time and you felt like you were developing real skills, but ask me if I put on a ghillie in my two deployments with SPMAGTF to CENTCOM. Lol.
Rambled a bit there, but thanks again. Really enjoyed the insight into higher and enjoyed the conversation, great podcast. As a sidenote I absolutely loved the story of the SGTMJ pussying out on that op, reminded me of a time when the BC/SGTMJ came out to a FSTX we were doing in the FREEZING cold in 29, they stayed about 20 fucking minutes TOPS before they left. Gotta love it. Semper
As an addition, I would REALLY like to hear what Skinta or you would think of the USMC changing Scout/Sniper course to be more like the Army's in the sense that, from what I understand, in the Army, the course is graded as an average over the entirety of the course. That lets even people who may fail an event continue the training, continue getting the skills, and then if they fail they fail but they got the training. SSBC from a commanders standpoint seems like a MASSIVE waste of time when you spend all this effort to send your Marine, and he fails Land Nav, and gets ZERO value out of the effort. Why is everything a go-home event? I get keeping the standards high, but maybe sending a Marine home that went 7/8 on land nav but may be a rock star in other areas, ISN'T a service to the Corps, maybe, it's a service to the tooth.
I know I'll catch MAJOR flak from this idea from HOGs that detest the idea of anyone that didn't go through what they went through get "the title", but the focus of the sniper community I THOUGHT when I joined was to fight wars, not protect a necklace, or replicate hazing they went through that may or may NOT have been effective at PRODUCING A TRAINED PRODUCT, the GOAL of a school.
They did that when I went through school in 2005. Unless you Drop On Request or quit, guys were permitted to continue training but wouldn’t receive a graduation certificate. They would generally be offered a second attempt to pick up with another class and try again to get certified. You’re absolutely right, it’s about making war fighters, not playing games with titles.
@@zacharybenton7144 that's actually fascinating. By the time I went through in 2017, every event was a go-home event. Failed land nav? Goodbye. Failed shooting? Goodbye. Almost all the drops in the course were from those 2 events alone on the West Coast. Massive, massive waste of time and money for everyone.