Electro & Co EC4P is BOMA garbage
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2023
- This is the EC4P v1 motor. On their web site, they have a news announcement about the EC4P v2. They mention no changes to the armature or stator, just changes to the end caps. It HAS to be embarrassing to see your products exposed for the garbage they are on RUclips! I'm hoping the v2 motor isn't more junk!
the reverse thread pitch thing, screws and sprocket design is a super stretch lol. its designed to replace a my1020 and use the same sprockets. its definitely a my1020 repop but on serious steroids. it out performs all the junk style 1020/boma style motors by a long shot. i do agree there's downsides and upsides but this is an assassination attempt and not an actual unbiased breakdown. im all for learning but this video carries real crazy bad vibes. without actually trying the motor out and comparing after a breakdown and just guessing things, is crazy. keep up the content, just try and take a more unbiased attempt next time brotha.
side note it definitely gets 11-15k rpm. ive run it up to 12 on mine.
Did you LOOK at the armature??? I did say it's going to make more torque. what more do you want?
@de-bodgery yeah man it's the same design. Although it looks to be in rough super shape. Listen there's alot of good points and a lot of non-sense. It's like comparing a base model audi a3 to an rs3 from the regular can my1020 motor to the ec4p. The motor is made by kunray as well. No one is trying to reinvent the wheel with this motor. Spade is a spade you said it yourself. I know the quality is questionable, I was one of the first to receive it. And I tested it with the same controller and battery setup with a yula 2000w, boma 3000w, and an enc my1020+, even alternating sprockets. By far, and I seriously mean this, it outperforms the regular 1020 by a landslide. I've gotten mine up to 12k, and there were videos of a guy getting his to 14k just today in the groups. I'm not an enc fan boy by any means, but just cause you're looking at it and trying to sell your motors doesn't mean this one is junk, brotha. The bias is crazy. I love the content you make, but this one is out there, lol.
@@MooseRidez you remind me of KO Moto fan boys. That's all they can say too! I must be biased! Irony here is I'm selling nothing...so not sure what you are alluding to with the comment about trying ot sell motors! Also, I've ripped into KO moto for similar crap....so IF it's "bias" as you say, then I'm just being biased against shit hardware!
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AGAIN...I did say it would be more powerful. You really ought to watch the entire video before you judge me! It's still a steaming turd regardless if you think I'm some sort of hater or not! See if you get shit like this from legit sources. You won't!
By the looks of the beat marks on the end cap sides that should have seen no contact with anything I would be willing to bet that some 🤡 molested the motor taking it apart and broke the magnets. He just hit a rock and grinded every square inch almost for clearance lol. 🤔 The damn motor looked like it road around in the bed of a pickup truck for a month.😂😂😂
Molested by Electro maybe! There was no magnetic bits inside the motor. Those chips in the magnets happened some other way and NOT from whatever it was that mangled the corners of the heat sink. It did get used...I said as much, but that was ON a Razor.
My first ec4p ran like a beast. With that being said. My armature looked just like that. I was like WTF you gotta be kidding me. But it did run like a beast
That's pretty SAD! There is no way that Electro doesn't know they are selling shit!
@@de-bodgery have you heard the rumors that boma and vevor are b grade and kunray makes them all?
@@chargedup6565 I have not. But lets face facts, all 3 companies make the same dirge of crap. IS it really surprising that they might actually all be same company or the same factory in China?
what motor would you recommend as an alternative? I would prefer something with the same bolt pattern because I'm gonna use it for a razor and I have no experience making custom brackets
Second this. An alternative solution would be awesome
I 3rd this I don’t wanna spend 2k and my motors is junk. I really wanna build a 11kw Razor.
TP-128 1600w motor is doing 10kw real world not peak for 2 seconds like the EC4P and it's 135mm long...exactly waht you need for the Razor frame.
TP-128 1600w motor is doing 10kw real world not peak for 2 seconds like the EC4P and it's 135mm long...exactly what you need for the Razor frame.
QS90 is made by QS motor. Is an IPM motor rated to 1kw but there are proof people are running them between 6kw to 8kw all day long.
Look for videos of this motor on RUclips and you will find it.
I'm running the QS90 at 5kw 5:1 gear ratio and it barely gets warm.
Its great your doing these reviews saved me from the KO Moto crap thats out there keep up the great work and videos
Just wanted to see if your going to do a review on the ting tong motor for the surron i respect your opinion and like to see what you think of it
Sure! If I get a hold of one of them.
The stator winding looseness is absolutely horrible but the rest of this video is just… “discovering” that the EC4P is a modified/slightly modified Vevor/Kunray/BOMA… which is exactly what E&C says it is. It does have more phases and a larger stator ID, so calling it “the same” is kind of disingenuous. Its a slightly higher torque MY1020 form factor.
I watched my own video end to end to see if I said they are literally "the same motor" and I never do. I even point out the stator differences. I show many similarities in construction and design and say they are both from BOMA...aka the same manufacturer. I'm pretty clear about this! It's not disingenuous when you present similarities that show the same manufacturer made both products. That's called following evidence to a logical conclusion. "the same" is a an over simplification of what I say. I never say they are the same motor, not once. I say they come from the same manufacturer.
Really glad I found you, I'm educating myself to do a EV conversion on a CR250 so this is important info, thanks !!!
What's a good high(er) quality alternative to these motors in the same or similar pattern? You mentioned the TP120?
TP128 1600w is the best one I know of with the right width that fits the razor. you have 135mm there. I'm sure there are others that have this motor height, but I don't know what they are or how good they are. I've taken apart the TP-128 on camera. We can all see it's construction is reasonably good.
FYI...that 1600w is the Top Power designation for a specific stator height and shell that is 135mm tall. The actual motor is seeing more like 10kw in real use. This is something that can't be said about the EC4P...it's simply much too small for their specs to be anything more than very short duration peak values!
@@de-bodgerythanks for the clarification.
pretty sure I read that E&C collaborated with Kunray to produce the EC4P, more than likely Kunray is made by BOMA.
I am not surprised. IMHO, Kunray = BOMA = Vevor...same crap.
Definitely not the same
@@ojf427 Not identical to be sure and I never claim that it is. What i do show is the many similarities with other motors from the same manufacturer. Of course they have several models and there will be differences between them. What's the point of naming the exact same product with 2 different model numbers?
I just found this channel!! So cool!! I really look forward to picking your brain. You're don't happen to know what the thickness of the laminations are in this motor? Are they using multiple turns of fine gauge wire? I assume it's the exact same motor that vevor sells on their website, what do you think? I don't know about calling them junk though. I could spend the money on a QS 70H motor but it would weigh twice as much. Why not just upgrade my controller to a votol em50 and address some of the quality control issues you have pointed out. Even with a stock controller my little (and I do mean little) 3 wheelies if I am not careful even at 10mph. At zero mph that is not a surprise but at 10 mph I was quite shocked. I am hoping with a votol em30s controller, some filtered air flow and some cooling fins I can gain some efficiency that is the real shortfall of this setup. I have chain reduction set to 4.8:1 and rarely never use the 3rd speed setting on the 3 speed switch. So I don't think I need to worry too much about overheating but I want to know what you think. Considering how much power they are getting from a flipsky 6374 I think one of those on each rear wheel would be able to give me my 18-20mph all day long without overheating and save more weight. What do you think? I will check your video bank with a fine tooth comb. I can't wait to see what I find!
For this price, you should be getting a way better motor...aka yes it is junk. BTW, Electro isn't exactly an "Above board company" Their shady and sketchy business practices are not something you want to be part of!
What's crazy is my old my 1020 1800 w motor I have ran at 9000 w with Kelly KLSN for 3 years now and going with multiple motors.. Now they will only peek at 6K and Kunray Just baffled
What motor would you recommend in that size or form factor?
Still has zip ties in it and the windings still need binding, but the Lightning Rods XL motor will out perform this turd, be better build quality, etc. It's also one of the TP-128 variants. If you include the size of the heat sink on the EC4P, The TP-128 is of simiular size. Thing is the EC4P is actually much smaller since a large portion of the space it takes up is all aluminum fins! That's what I would get.
I'm working on copying this but a better version on the down low
@@de-bodgerycan you hit me with a link what is that who sells it say what? Lol bolt on ?
@@Razorcrew_Cole you might need to make some brackets or mod your frame to make it fit. Since I don't know anything about your EV, I can't say it is "bolt on" or not. And even then, there is a limited number of EV's that I have personally worked on so those are what I know about and not the vast majority of potential EV's. Google lightning rods mid drive kits...you should find him. The company is in Oregon. If you do buy a motor from them, please tell them that I sent you to them. I know they are miffed because I found the motor they sell and then did a group buy for 40 of them. They are all accounted for so I have no spares and there are at least 6 other people that have already asked if I have any to sell.
Many people dont know this but some of the boma motors have the v style rotor in them I ordered 3 and one has the v style rotor which can rev much higher, the other rotors start chipping at 6600ish rpm. much like what you showed. I want to find one with the internal fan blade make it a v style open up the holes and it should be ok for a burnout or two. I have the 72v 3000w motors and have seen them spike around 11kw.
It’s annoying how no matter how much you look you can’t find a solid CONTINIOUS rating for the motor. It seemed promising at first it’s just hard too get a good grasp of quality and what actual rating are without getting it
agreed
I think it's in their key features
Wow i just built my mx650 76v 24ah THE ONE motor i think its 19kw, has there been any issues with that motor that you know of if you can let me know thatd be great👍
Did you look at the The One upgrade kit? This motor is the EC4P POS with a better shaft and new end cap to accommodate a different bearing. How is this fixing any of the intrinsic issues of the EC4P??? Its just the same dismally BAD motor with a different shaft!!!
I am new to e motor stuff - purchased a kit from Electro and CO - building e motorcycle - QS138 and Votol EM 260 controller -
do you know the quality of these components ? I have learned a lot watching your shows - Thanks
I will be doing a tear down of the QS138 soon. If it's anything like the QS165, it's pretty decent. People over watt them heavily and you can't do that with a crap motor like the EC4P. i've done a tear down of the Votol EM-150 and thought it was pretty decent. The 260 is probably also decent.
Have you checked out the FW-11 from Jordan Davis yet at all? Curious to see what you think
I/m not sure what happened with that. Maybe I need to contact them again?
@@de-bodgery Im not sure I was wondering your thoughts on it I just got it haven't got to try it yet, I have the Kelly KLSN field weakening model, fardriver 72450, and flipsky 200pro to try with it when my batteries come! We'll see
@@Razorcrew_Cole I pinged Jordan an hour ago...will see.
@@de-bodgery right on I know he doesn't make much on selling them either so I get it he's super busy
what other motor would you recommend instead of this?
Top Power motors are lots better. Anything from FreeRCHobby. Anything from QSmotor.
Murphy's effing law kicking me in the ass. Literally received one of these today...... I'm tempted to open it up and see if it looks anything like this one....
All I can do is expose shit hardware for what it is. IF despite that, people still buy shit hardware, I can't help them with that. I'm not even slightly doubting that your EC4P is junk! I have seen many of them now and every last one of them was crap! So will be yours. Send it back and get something else. The QS165 will fit in the same space and is a MUCH better motor and waaaaaaay more powerful!
I recently read an article about an MX bike converted with an Electro and Co. kit. Got me thinking about building a replacement for my KTM for trail use. If I should stay away from E&Co where should I be looking?
Thanks for the education.
TP-128 is far superior. Anything from QS is way better.
@@de-bodgery Thanks, I'll keep following your channel
What motor do you recommend at the same price point that bolts right in? It seems like the EC4P is a pretty inexpensive option that is cheaply made reflected in the price tag yet performs pretty well. I'm an engineer that has built many electric vehicles of all sorts and if there is a better motor in the same class, I would like to know about it. Sotion FW11? I would not call a 75% increase in price for a FW11 over a EC4P the same price point. Any other options? Please show me the motor you think is "good" that's $250.
Did you watch the videos on this motor at all? Do you have any idea the failure rates of these steaming pieces of crap? It's VERY HIGH! So go ahead, buy an EC4P. You think that buying cheap is going to cut it and I'll never tell you that! You pay more for very good reasons! Buy an FW11 and be GLAD that you did!
Can you please open up a trumoto noises cricket from e&c
What about the TP 100 motors?
What about them? You didn't ask a question.
Also, you've uncovered nothing by discovering the double flat and reverse nut. This is the exact standard used by razor in the beginning. Doesn't make everything else appalling for paying all that extra.
Lots of cheap China motors use that double flat shaft end. Razor is far from the only one.
Nice video. Would love to see some breakdowns of aftermarket surron/talaria batteries (e.g. Chi, EBMX, etc.)!
I want to do these too! Thing is, 95% of my content I pay for the hardware myself. Packs are bloody expensive!
@@de-bodgerymakes sense. maybe a ebike shop or manufacturer will hook you up one day. keep doing your breakdowns! love the content.
Well , I finally agree with you. I told all these clowns that the ec4p was a glorified MY1020 months ago and they all snapped and blew their gaskets. Well now the truth has come to light. Also told them the LR was worlds better , and same results !!! I don’t like to agree with you , but when you’re right you’re right.
Thanks...I guess? The LR is worlds better. It's a TP-128 after all.
whats the LR?
@@thagipper Lightning Rods...he buys TP-128 motors and rebrands them as XL or XXL motors.
The only 2 options they have (as of the time of this writing) are the ECP4"lite" and something they're hyping up as "The One", which they claim is a combination of the "might of the Electro & Company EC4P V3 Motor with the strength and Braun of the EC5P Motor". I wonder how the quality of those stacks up and if it doesn't, how can they keep getting away with this? Other than ignorance, of course.
Yeah customer ignorance, hype marketing and total disregard for their customers! That's how.
Looks like some RUclipsrs just get paid hard cash to hype up whatever the latest thing is, and only after riding it for a few weeks or months they are like damn this thing sucks
If I could find 1500w brushless motors for $50 ea I would buy 10 of them, do some quality control and sell them on converted scooters! Where can I get them for $50? But I still appreciate the heads up on ec4p. Definitely not worth the extra money they are charging.
I am in the midst of shipping the motors from the Tp-128 group buy I organized. Those motors which are far superior in every way to the steaming turd that Electro sells cost me $135 each. Add $50 to that cost for profits and you've undercut the turd EC4P massively, still made a profit and would be selling a far superior motor in every way. Good luck finding a good motor that costs $50!!!
@@de-bodgery I did not say you could buy a motor for $50. You did, in the video. I thought you were serious. I see now you are getting these from alibaba. I have yet tory try that route. I am guessing the group buy is for the 1500w ver of the tp128?
@@victorreppeto7050 I think you should watch the video again so you get your context right. Those Crappy BOMA inrunners are a $50 motor...that's what I was referring to. It's pretty obvious in context. If I said something potentially wrong, it is in getting them in single units for $50 in the USA. Buy them in quantity and $50 is possible. The group buy for the TP-128 was for the 1800w version.
I'm not surprised, there are only a small handful of Chinese companies manufacturing these kinds of motors. From the low end to the high end it's the same few companies don't be fooled thinking any of these motors are special or new unless manufactured in a different country.
On top of that Chinese companies are controlled by the CCP, they can have multiple companies producing products that are identical from blueprints using the same parts.
95% of e-bike motors on the market are rebranded/redesigned/customized Chinese mass produced items, same goes for a lot of the controllers too.
@@mrrants I agree, but quality can be pretty bad like this motor or quite good. I don't care that they come from China. It's the corner cutting and lack of build quality that's in this motor that I point out!
I’m sure the corner with bashed in fins is totally unrelated to any rotor damage LOL SMH.
The heat sink damage has nothing to do with the armature damage. I suppose if you hit the motor with a large hammer you might break magnets, but that was more scuffing and bending form grazing a rock or a curb. Also, Electro took it apart and didn't bother addressing the bad armature condition! They KNEW it was a really rough armature and did nothing about it! Also, several people have contacted me on FB with pictures like I show in this video. It's pretty common that these motors are damaged direct from Electro!
@@de-bodgery how do you know the motor hit didn’t happen after electro and co saw it?
@@HeyMikeFalcone Did you watch the video? Are there magnet fragments inside it?
The concept of the EC4P as an improved version of the MY1020 is good, but the execution not so much, particularly the rotor... too bad, as the TP128 etc are too heavy for custom light weight performance street bike builds IMO.
I still may buy one of these, varnish both ends, drill the end caps, upgrade the bearings, and hope the magnets stay put. I have (3) 3000w MY1020s that i run at 7000w on the street to 45mph. Zero failures in several thousand miles. They run a bit hot but anyone going WOT for more than 15 seconds is asking for it... they're not the total crap this review purports.
Do you remember the Yugo car? Sure it had 4 wheels, drove around and actually ran. NONE of that in any way changed it into anything other than the steaming turd that it is! Working is proof that the Yugo actually worked as a car, but not in any way defined it as quality or reliable or good. The EC4P is no different than the Yugo!
While i respect your breadth of knowledge on these topics, we'll disagree slightly here.
At any rate, my point is that AFAIK, there are no alternative easily controlled inrunner motors available that don't weigh 17lbs +... other than perhaps a TP-120. Do you have one around to review?
I spent months trying to run a Tmotor U-15 with VESC on a Maker-x (burned up), and then a Flipsky 75200 (cut outs at wot). Going to take another shot at it soon with a Tronic 250r... that whole saga is on Endless-sphere ebike builds Mongoose Blackcomb.
@@Barncatfish Not all motors are worth bothering with. Some are down right lousy! Your motor may have been something like that.
Did you get a hold of one of their controllers as well? their fanboys are punching air right now lmao.
Not yet, but I imagine that will happen some time soon. I don't know why they are hiding this fact, perhaps they intend to steal VESC? But they are not at all forthcoming about the fact that they are making VESC controllers! All I can think of is they intend to steal VESC. Why hide they are a VESC platform??? This is something to brag about, not hide!
@@de-bodgeryagreed we brag about having vesc crazy carts all the time!
@@chargedup6565 VESC is the bomb! ONLY reason to hide you are VESC is because you acquired it illegally!
@@de-bodgery i did notice they just recently added "VESC 5.3" as the controller software on their website, gotta look hard to find it though.
one other thing i noticed, the with ratings of their current controller (200dc 400phase, 88v or 126v) These specs, as well as their "future controller" (375A dc/750A phase and 88v/126v) align very closely with 3shul's c/cl350 and c/cl700, i wonder if Hackey is making them.
@@ganzeytyler If you use wayback machine you can see it wasn't there in the June snap shot and that's the latest for their web site. Clearly they didn't want to publicly say they are VESC! I'm fairly familiar with lots of people that do VESC development. It's an opinion held by a few people that they intended to steal VESC. Several VESC engineers started an email campaign asking rather pointed questions about their controllers to make them come clean. I know they lied a good bit at first and wouldn't answer questions about anything. This just got people more convinced of the attempt to steal VESC. That jsut got the emails more pointed! There is now a public repository on github for their work. All they had to do was be honest! Why even bother trying to steal VESC? But then again, many people have contacted me after I posted this video to tell me their tales of inscrupulous business practices from Electro! I guess stealing VESC is matter of course for Electro!?
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Maybe Hackey is making them or they stole his work!
Are Vevor, Kunray and Boma all made by the same manufacturer?
I don't know about Vevor, but I suspect that Kunray and BOMA are the same group. Can you show me an example of something from Vevor?
@de-bodgery The Vevor 1020d motor looks exactly like the Kunray. I have two of the 2000w motors and they came with internal fans. But those two motors use a lower amp setting on the controller. But they make more torque than the EC4P.
@@noce1071 Oh duh! lol...wasn't thinking of the 1020D...and yes..totally agree that's highly likely another BOMA motor! Torque is several things. You need magnets that are strong enough to repel or pull against the magnetic fields in the windings. Weak magnets make less torque than strong ones. IF your stator and windings are stronger than your magnets, any amount of current you apply to them that exceeds the strength of the magnets is useless. You can push more current than the iron in the stator teeth can turn into a magnetic field. This is called iron saturation. Again anything beyond the point of saturation and you are just wasting power. The diameter of the armature makes the lever longer or shorter and that mean more or less torque for the same applied current. All of these combined are what makes one motor stronger than another.
@@de-bodgery have you ever worked on a Denzel motor or known anyone that has used. I was looking at running one of them on my modified razor.
@@noce1071 I'm aware of Denzel, but never looked into them very closely. That's about all i can say. I think a TP-128 would be epic on a razor.
Love seeing them exposed!! Austin is a con artist and thief. He only is in to get rich I promise you I have dealt with him for a few years on a company basis, he is running that company into the ground as we speak lol
They seem rather corrupt and sketchy to me! This is the motor they sell...this POS???!!! They have got to know it's a horrible motor and they sell it anyway! That's seriously corrupt! I dislike KO moto for the same crap and here's electro doing the same thing! GRRR!
They NEED exposure like this!
@@de-bodgery yep I'm going to be selling like the same motor as the my 1020 "+" But for closer to $100 and I'll say carefully you'll probably fry it if you don't have a fan on it and run it high.
Me and him went back and forth I gave him all the info to come out with the version 2.0 and then he used me and ghosted me known him for years
@@Razorcrew_Cole so you have a web site? These guys are super sketchy. I don't trust them! your story doesn't surprise me at all!
There's not even banding securement for the magnets... Wtf are you gonna do when the glue finally lets loose when you run this thing at that crazy high power they claim?! Things gonna slam to a halt while you're doing 50 on a razor bike.
The shit layer of fiberglass and epoxy will help a little, but it's not going to stop the magnets from slinging off. And especially not considering jsut how BADLY it's applied!
when I made these videos, lots of people PM'd me on FB about their motors coming apart. It's a shit design!
If you go an watch the teardown of that motor on electro and co RUclips page you can literally see that they added that extra section to the rotor to make it longer, how cheap can you possibly get
yup...massively CHEAP!
“What are the odds that two motors 8 years apart would have the same reverse thread pitch?” Is this a joke? You’re asking what the odds are that two motors that have the same sprocket mount use the same nut? Ummm I’d say hopefully 100%. Industry standards exist for a reason.
What industry standards? Have you ever purchased an EV motor, especially from China? The standard is "cheap as possible" in most cases.
@@georgeforeman89 AGREED! And in this motor that is all it is...CHEAP AS FUCK!
I think you missed the point. That was one of many things that the BOMA inrunners I have and this steaming turd from Electro and Co have in common. It's not just one thing! It's many things and one of them is the same reverse threads.
Also, This video has been up jsut 4 hours now. So far I have 5 people tell me the have these motors, same story, same shitty construction. They even have pictures they shared with me! One guy told me hes' on his third one of them in as many months!
@@de-bodgery do you have a motor that uses the same sprocket and uses a different nut?
What kind of motor is this
Induction or synchronous motor
So they take advantage of customer's not understanding inflated ratings: and allowing the real industry standard to be lost in all translations. Whilst then disregarding any critical interaction. Gotcha. Unsuspecting buyer beware. Experience speaks.
Their business practices are pretty sketchy on all levels. Many people have contacted me with their stories of woe when dealing with Electro.
Not sure what people expect. E&C doesnt do manufacturing. They just find a manufacturer and send them custom specs. The manufacturer collaborates with E&C to make tweaks to the motor with already mass produced parts. Thats why you see this hodge podge. No way E&C can sell these motors at this price point if it were truly a ground-up design. A ground-up designed and produced motor for the tiny razor community would never happen. Theres not enough money in the market. No matter what "new" motor comes out, itll be a hodge podge.
People dont understand how manufacturing works. Its all about cost/efficiency.
I think you should look at the TP-128! Far less cost and far better construction!
@@de-bodgery I did!! Thanks
@@de-bodgery are you selling any of the tp128?
He insists there's "nothing wrong with a split magnet" in this one
ruclips.net/video/Qmk2jZ1wHVI/видео.html
Do you really think these dishonest people will be honest with you? They already got caught stealing VESC! Trusting people like that is something you do at your own risk!
Great. Where I can buy this TP128 brushless motor? Do you have a link?
look at my TP128 tear down videos. It's all in the description
I found some TP128 in Aliexpress but they are Max for 2000 Watt. (2KW) In your video here you said that Tp128 is about 12 to 14KW ( kilowatt) Is that true? Any electric motor you can apply 10 times more Amps for very short period of time and get 10 times more power. But if run for longer time, it will be a toast. Im looking for a great powerful motor for my scooter, better than EC4P v2 2000Watt. Is that possible to rewind small motors like Tp128 or Ec4P to get a good one for continuous use like 12KW or 14KW without water cooling?
@@tigranohanyan3321 Interesting that you went to "all my TP-128" videos and didn't find this info? I did say to look at the tear down videos like I said above. I just checked and sure enough it's in all of them!