Here in Oregon, a medium size community hired an Australian company to install cameras at traffic lights and automatically issue tickets. The revenue came pouring in to the pockets of the company and the town fathers. They both wanted more so they shortened the yellow lights "a bit" and it worked. Finally, someone filed a class action lawsuit against the town fathers and they won. It almost bankrupted the town. Good for them.
@@samueldavila2156 It's something to teach the whole town or city not to allow such a thing to come to be. Americans need to stand up against this kind of corruption way before someone has to file a lawsuit. Just because these higher ups think they are gods doesn't mean they are.
We moved out of FL in 2018. We haven’t been back. We brought our two cars and registered them in our new state right away. Last year, we got a ticket for a plate in Tampa on a type of car we never owned. The photo was unreadable, but possibly shared a digit with a tag from one car from before we left FL., but that tag was also a special plate, and the ticket photo tag was different colors. We didn’t have to pay the ticket, but I still had to waste my time clearing it up. The ticket is not generated by a human, nor reviewed by a human. An AI decides the garbage photo has meaning and it finds what it decides might be a match, and generates the ticket. So what happens when the AI mistakenly decides you’re on the most wanted list? Or that your kid’s hockey stick is an illegal weapon? Or that baby you made last year is the amber alert victim kidnapped two states away? This is NOT okay.
They don't care. That's all negligible to them for the control they get. Remember the people running our government are not like you and me, our interests don't align
The only reason municipalities and local governments here in the US get away with these cameras is because most people will just pay the fine. All you have to do to get out of any of these camera tickets is to show up to court (as you have the right to face your accusers). Unfortunately it is a lucrative scam, yet it is not constitutional, and though it is a pain in the rear our mass non-compliance is necessary
You need to at the very least open a small claims case for the time you wasted, any money you spent, plus personal suffering for this caused you. If enough people did this, the system would be bankrupted.
Most of the time the city doesn't own the cameras, the company does. They split the revenue generated, and the company handles all of the paperwork. This is a privacy nightmare. Want to know what women in their late twenties keep in their cars? Teenage boys in theirs? Who owns the content of these images? We are paying to be spied upon by our own governments, who then use large corporations who then use AI connected to government databases to match licenses in pictures connected with "crimes". Do I have that right? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
@@danpetermann6509 It is true. I know in LI NY the company paid for all the equipment and will maintain it as well for 45% of the ticket revenue. This is not even constitutional by any stretch of the imagination.
Recently, in Maryland, my daughter was STOPPED at a red light and checked her phone momentarily. A police officer behind her pulled her over and informed her that the camera at the light identified her as using her hand-held device and immediately sent him a notification because (via GPS) he was close to her. He gave her a warning. Thinking this is not happening already in the US is simply being naive. EDIT: Please understand that I was not saying that my daughter was right or wrong to check messages when at a full stop at a light known to be long, I was just stating what had happened. I agree that handheld devices are a distraction at any time and should be avoided when behind the wheel of a running vehicle. I would say talking using hands-free devices, manually tuning the radio, and even arguing with passengers ("Kids, knock it OFF!") are distractions. Could this AI monitor catch those things, as well?
I can't tell you the number of times that I've witnessed something while driving that prompted me to make a 911 call: injury accidents, brush fire, structural fire. I wonder how many tickets I would've racked up over the years.
Its naive to believe a GLOW IN THE DARK FED LIKE YOU. And it's also naive to give into FUD PROPAGANDA like this. Shit will not stand the test of the courts in America. Do not be a victim. They want you that way, because they are sexually aroused by your humiliation. Stand up. Defy them and their plans. They hate this the most.
We have these cursed things in So California. Several years ago, my son got tagged going through a red light (they really DO shorten the yellow). For some reason, the ticket- along with a crystal clear picture of my kid behind the wheel-came to ME (his mother), even though I’m not a teenaged boy or even the legal/registered owner of the car (it’s titled in my husband/his dad’s name). Ridiculously, the ticket was certified and signed by an actual person, attesting to the fact that I was the person behind the wheel (I clearly was not). Well, I was still legally required to pay the $600 “bail” (to avoid any late fees while waiting for the hearing) and to show up at court to plead not guilty (my defense: “It wasn’t me.”). Once my day came, the court wanted (and tried to get) me to identify the driver, which isn’t my legal responsibility, and I refused to do so. They then tried to get me to plead guilty to a lesser infraction, which would have taken the ticket down to about $130, which-again-I would not do. Those SOBs made me stand before the judge (so f-ing lame), but he did ultimately dismiss the case. I got my $600 back, but what a waste of time! Here in Southern California, we have “traffic cameras” at every major intersection and at every freeway on/off ramp. It’s a hideous invasion of privacy and overreach, and I HATE it.
If this is true, it implies they're using an machine learning algorithm, and it probably identified a vehicle in your name or the insurance holder if he's part of your household or had him as a dependent on your taxes. They're fucked up. You should like. Say this in real life. And what im saying.
Sadly, not everyone will have your abilities to think through, and refuse to be browbeaten into pleading guilty for something you didn't do! Much respect to you!
A number of years ago some country, I think it was Germany, deployed ultra high tech speed cameras that took a photo of both the driver and the passenger. It caught a bunch of politicians driving with female passengers who was not the wife. And of course the tickets get mailed home, with the photo, where they were opened by, the wife. Huge outcry over "invasion of privacy".
This is why red light cameras in my town were taken down after 2 years, too many "important" people, family, friends, supporters etc. of important people were getting caught. These cameras are for the little people not for us!
@@rsmith3062 What I fear are "ultra smart" cameras that do things like adjust your apparent speed up 5 mph if you are the wrong political party. Or ignore traffic violations if your license plate is on the approved list.
@@rsmith3062 Easy to avoid...just put the photos of all the important people in a no scan file....whenever they're detected the software ignores them.....if they haven't done that already they will.
@@hermesten1000 You must live in a world of Wizards and Princesses. That's not really how automation works. Your hubris is incredible. You really to believe the propaganda, don't you?
As a retired peace officer, this invasion of our privacy concerns me. I agree with you Steve that once the "foot is in the door" there will be more to come. Sadly, government "leaders" sometimes make laws contrary to common sense and our freedoms, be it for money or power, it does and will happen. Don't ever underestimate the ability of power hungry people to keep taking and taking (our freedoms, taxes, programs that benefit the few, etc.).
@@jsmith-u5i while true, the inside of the vehicle has long been considered part of a person's private domain. Ive got no issues with cameras recording and ticketing road rule infractions but infractions inside a vehicle should never be seen.
@@devilsatan2973 ✅ Exactly! Look at it this way: we don't go to church to criticize God, because God is Lord, and he is beyond reproach! We are the unwashed peasants, who's duty it is to go to church to confess OUR sins, and to beg for forgiveness from the Lord.... The same is true of government and political leaders. They are our secular lords! Unlike us, they are incorruptible and virtuous. They know what's best for us! So it's critical for them to be able to monitor all aspects of our lives, so they can punish us like the petulant children we are! 🤡
I would not mind this if it ONLY monitored public officials. They are supposed to work for us. We are not supposed to be a "free bank" creditors for them.
42,939 deaths per year in the US is what could go wrong. And speeding, distracted driving and texting are among the biggest causes of traffic accidents. You tell me what could go wrong.
Good lord, the govt control freaks just can't stop themselves. Next up, they'll put ai cams in toilets, because they just can't stand not seeing what goes in there!
I was reading on how to foil A.I> facial recognition and it is darn near impossible, even while wearing sunglasses. Guess it can see through the lense. What did work was sunglasses with the twilight Zone spinning tunnel, cork screw type thing image printed on the lense. I thought hey thats cool, just need to find a party store that sells them.
The real problem is they don't publish the rate of false positives. These systems are far from being infallible. The people making these decisions most likely do not understand Bayes' Theorem.
The process is the punishment. They create laws to legalize what they were doing for 20 years before the law was drafted. The solution is obvious. Who is brave enough to do it? How much further do you let them push you?
It's because they don't record false positives correctly if it records it at all and so that information would be wrong even if they did give out that information. Many times it's also managed by dumb people who don't know how to operate it except for a limited amount of stuff that they are allowed to do by management.
Why do the false positives matter? Just like with red light cameras, a review by a human is required before tickets are issued (and even then, you can go before a judge to contest it).
For all other people that don’t know, in Lafayette Louisiana we got rid of red light cameras, by not paying the tickets issued by mail. I’m talking from experience. When the red light cameras were instituted, the yellow lights were shortened. You can expect the same. Here in Louisiana laws were written that says only licensed enforcement can write tickets. They just hope people will pay tickets that are only civil matters.
I used to work for the Traffic department in the United States. We began installing cameras on highways then replaced all loop detection with cameras. We ALWAYS USED To zoom INSIDE a vehicle to things despite publicly and officially we said we did not do that. Yes I am saying we lied and did so from the start. This was twenty years ago and NOW we have the technology to zoom in more with better quality. ALREADY HAPPENED To clarify I specifically worked for a large city Traffic Department and this was routine 20 years ago
@@fragelicious Also what kind of idiot thinks that a “Traffic Department “ that is responsible for the installation and maintenance of traffic lights signs etc. does not exist?? Think they magically appear and magically fix themselves???
In order to be charged with breaking a law in the US, you need to be able to face your accuser in a court of law… a camera cannot show up in court and accuse you of anything. Any judge or prosecutor that issues charges based on what they see on camera alone is unconstitutional.
Definitely going to get invasive about the cholesterol from a traffic cam. I actually spent 500 to get rid of a 550 dollar ticket. The lawyer who handled it was like, "I can't guarantee you'll win," and I told him point blank I'd rather not eat and challenge this and lose than to simply eat the poo sandwich and pretend I like it." It was a principal for me. I won, saved 50 bucks, and the most interesting part of it was that the camera at that intersection and one right next to it vanished. I don't know that it had anything to do with my case, but it might have. What concerns me about all this is that as we fail to challenge these bogus tickets and the ever more aggressive creep into our privacy and lives we are creating the president to empower their overreach as the standard and eventually it'll become law. Even creepier is the corporate creep into our lives too. Every company wants more and more access. I imagine there is a possible future where our phones would tattle on us for picking them up merely while the car is on! Uh oh... someone appears to have the intent to drive while on their phone... it'll be touted as a safety feature, and with the GPS and "lost," tracking data they'll be able to send a drone to deliver your ticket in real time. Maybe even pull you over. As the potentials for being bullied to the side of the road with red and blue lights increases, I want a button that guides me to the nearest police station. I don't want to be out in the middle of nowhere with a cop and their gun with my impossibly sassy mouth. No thanks! Better to have the whole department beat and murdre me on multiple cameras than just the two that magically fail out there...
Social injustice isn't about traffic cams. Its about all available housing rentals being bought up at ocean size chunks, buy foreigners who immediately jack the rent up 5 times higher. Choose a better battle, Buddy. Ppl are living in tents. Everywhere.
Anytime you hire a lawyer or an attorney (they're not the same thing) you have already lost. Do you know what you are doing when you do hire either of those? In the eyes of the court you have become a ward of the court. You basically are telling the court that you are not mentally able to defend yourself. If you show up to court you have 99% of the time already lost.😢
@@kramselab If I remember correctly, I didn't say that you should represent your self. I simply stated that if you show up for a summons on the day requested. 99% of the time you've already lost you just don't know it. Most people have no idea of what is actually occuring in a courtroom. Unless you are familiar with the foreign language used in court you have a better chance of understanding Chinese sign language.
I live in the U.S.A. I worked for a company called Stake Center, I had a company vehicle. They put "Drive Cam" cameras powered with A.I. technology that can track your eyes, detect if you are using a phone, even just looking at it, they can detect if you are eating food.. the list goes on and on. It's intrusive, creepy, and just wrong.
It’s an abuse of power and authority !! When free citizens are being penalized like lab rats, and criminals who have serious rap sheets aren’t held to real crimes… Society needs a hard Reset !!!
Usually things like this that happen in the UK eventually make their way to the US. I remember watching a show back in the 90's about how cameras were everywhere in the major cities of the UK and how they could track a person everywhere they go. It seemed like a completely foreign concept at the time. Look at us now, we've become used to cameras watching everything we do. If you're not aware of the cameras just look up, they're at every major intersection, all along every major highway, all over all the buildings of every city, and every person now has a handheld camera in their pocket and will pull it out and film you if you do anything out of the ordinary. It wasn't always like that.
Not true as many States including my own have banned the tech for exactly this reasoning. That said we all lost on license plate readers and you can thank our State representatives for that L
Oh, 'fer sure... and surprised it also doesn't get more attention, but the ability to crosslink and tap into *_other_* databases (tax rolls, health records, employment, etc.... like China does right now), seems especially 'creepy'!
Read AI as "paints pictures where it imagines things". AI puts a picture where it kind of fits. It's the ultimate false positive generator to sidestep your rights. Everyone has no rights when the bell goes bing. The bell always goes bing.
We the people need to get out ahead of this and demand lawmakers do something immediately to limit the use of AI. Big brother is right around the corner and if you let our leaders take one more step to being our “overlords” there will be no way to claw back our innocent rights to live in peaceful freedom.
Big brother is already here ^ has been for sometime, people just don't realize it because they've been introducing it a small piece at a time. As we get used to that piece and stop complaining , they slip in another piece.
@@pstoneking3418 true, and even scarier is our kids/grandkids just accept it as normal and welcome it all the way because it’s all “for their own good to keep them safe” which is how they’ve been groomed all their lives anyway. They think the world needs to be a big puffy nerfed, non-dangerous, padded room lined, big brother loves you so they don’t even want to go back to that big bad scary time when you had liberty and freedom to make your own mistakes. The thought crimes are just around the corner.
Computers can't be held responsible for their choices or actions. It's hard enough to hold human law enforcement accountable these days. Automating the law is scary.
Agreed. It is the bureaucrats and system designers/salesmen that get into bed together, and look to scratch each other's back, by implementing a system that makes the designer company wealthy, and promises to fill the coffers of the municipality with money from fines, without having to staff up with LEO.
The real problem with AI systems is that they can often see a pattern match where none exists. They can be trained to look for seat belt violations, but in the process of training the network might decide that all drivers with their sun visor deployed are also in violation. Or you could be in violation because your arm is across your seat belt. It can be surprisingly easy to get false positives and surprisingly hard to convince people that are using these systems that the AI is wrong.
I wear a black winter coat and the seat belts in my truck are black so how would a camera be able to make such distinction as to whether or not a seatbelt was in use. I have partial photophobia (inability for eyes to adjust quickly to light) so I use my Visor most of the time to adjust the light level. When I worked for the U.S. Postal Service (retired) our seatbelts were Orange, making it easier for a supervisor doing a drivers observation to tell whether or not seat belt was in use. Everything is fallible; Had a drivers Observation done one day on parked mail truck. He was able to open door by jiggling handle even though I had made sure door was closed and locked. Mechanic the next morning backed me up saying the lock was defective.
The "go" issue is quite a thing, yeah. By "Go issue", I am referring to an issue discovered with an AI designed to play the game Go. This AI quickly became incredibly good at the game, and even caused at least one master of the game to quit for good because he couldn't win... Then, at around the same time ChatGPT came out, some researchers found an issue with it. Now, before I address the issue that was found, I should explain how the game "Go" works. There are black and white pieces (one side is black, the other white), on a square board consisting of square cells, with the two colors representing the two players. You need to protect groups of your color, while trying to capture groups of your opponents' pieces. I'm not going to bother going any more in-depth than that, since that's all you need to know to understand the issue. The issue that was discovered was that the AI didn't understand that it needed to protect it's groups. It was able to trounce grandmasters, and was impossible for a human to defeat... _All without understanding one of the most fundamental rules of the game._ One of the researchers who discovered the issue learned to play, and was able to best the AI more often than not while using a strategy designed to exploit the AI's lack of actual understanding. The same techniques used to create that AI are used for basically every single AI in use today... And because people rely on the AI to teach _itself_ how to do it's job? Nobody can tell whether it actually understands what it's doing, or is just mimicking what worked before.
Steve, Knoxville, TN had red light cameras for years. Massive complaints from the citizens resulted in them all being removed. Basically the citizens told the local politicians that they would be unemployed if the cameras remained.😮
@@cigarsgunsanddiesel8032 They objectively are fedboi. Anytime anyone says this it glows brighter than Pripyat. The reason you guys say this is because it's harder to rig an election with high turnout.
In New Jersey, we had red light cameras until there was a lawsuit and now they are all gone. There was a story about a guy (can't remember where) who got dozens of tickets for running red lights. He was actually legally parked on the street in front of his house. Despite being told that the photos are reviewed before the tickets were sent out and his car being obviously sitting at the curb, he kept getting tickets.
Having driven into Michigan dozens of times over the last 6 months or so, i can honestly say that speed cameras in Michigan in construction zones mean speed cameras on every road.
Well, the potholes keep the speeds down to a reasonably insane level. We only do 85 in 70s because of them. And once you get into residential areas, it's 25 unless you drive a tank. Some of us do.
DC hides all its Secret Police crap inside "construction zones" its a situational design of their own making. I would not be surprised if an unlocked armoury were stashed in said locations.
Plate reading cameras in Maryland have already been used to run out-of-state tags and see if the registered owner has a weapon carry permit, and use that as an excuse (probably cause) to stop them and conduct a roadside weapons search.
@mikealvord55 - it is. As a 22-year veteran police officer myself I find it hard to believe that it's actually doing that and that officers are using it for probable cause. Plus, no matter what state you're in we all have use the same NLETS ( national law enforcement telecommunications system) on our computers. Im in Oklahoma. If I run your out-of-state license I cannot see your weapons permit. Only Oklahoma in state issued permits. None of that is linked to any tags and a lot of people's tags don't even come back to a person they come back to a trust or some other entity. So im calling BS on this guys claim. Now... face recognition is out there. lapd's been experimenting with Google Glasses for quite some many years now that the officers can wear that will scan faces and check for warrants. So that is coming.
Red light cameras and speeding cameras are absolutely intrusive. Texas banned red light cameras on the grounds that they're a violation of Constitutional rights and I hope more states follow suit before they completely lose their freedom.
@@tonypegler9080 you miss the point entirely. It's intrusive because there's no human interaction to prove anything. Just set cameras up everywhere bro, every infraction you'll get a ticket in the mail.
I know for a fact though that red light cameras are effective, and once the system is well-tuned, they almost never give a false positive. The problem is you guys aren't willing to give it a decent chance to prove itself. Imagine if you effed up just once at work and they fired you...
@@viewthoughmyeyes Pretty sure the Republicans in Texas were the first to pass the law ALOWING red light cameras😂 And I KNOW that England is run by conservatives lol
The short time cameras like this were used in my area, they found it cost more per ticket than it brought in. On top of that, people were much more likely to challenge it in court and the judges were getting sick of them. Even then they didn't outright ban them until a lawmaker got a speeding ticket that he claimed he shouldn't have gotten.
That hasn't worked well in Britain, you challenge it and they rejected it out of hand without looking at the evidence because "it's an automatic camera! they don't go wrong!" because there's been the mindset among the elected jobsworths that cameras are infallible and never wrong. It's been hitting the newspapers quite often the last few years with people insisting they get a hearing to challenge it. The cameras have been tagging people as "parked" when they were stuck in traffic at a light, and other things of the like, and when the victim of these cameras get nowhere, they turn to the newspaper.
@@impishrebel5969 That's one of the benefits of the US system, separation of judicial and executive branches. No executive can deny someone the right to a public hearing, even over something like a traffic ticket. Judges really hate it when the local police waste their time.
As I listened to this, I was reminded of concerns voiced by a Supreme Court justice (can't recall who), that driving codes in the US are so complicated that it seems impossible for anyone to drive without violating some law. Combine that level of legal complexity with a system capable of 24/7 monitoring of all traffic on a road or highway, and the potential is frightening. It seems that law enforcement could have their "probable cause" to pull over anyone. Scary!!
They literally can pull over anyone and you need to prove you did nothing wrong not them prove you did do something wrong. Of course if you win you can sue but I mean qualified immunity is a real pain.
The cops loved the "I smelled marijuana" excuse. Impossible to prove they did or didn't in court. They could use that excuse to pull anyone over, but usually young people and minorities.
It was someone v North Carolina. The cop can pull you over Bec they mistook the law, aka they thought what you did was illegal even though it’s not and anything found after the fact is allowed to be used in courts
"EHR, MEH GHERD! TINK UV DUH CHILRENS!!! IS YEW SOME KINDA MONSTER? DON'T YEW KARE ABOUT CHILRENS?" Every time a politician says, "Think of the children!" You need to be opposed to whatever they are proposing. It's just a simply rule-for-life that will solve a lot of questions before you even have to spend any time thinking about it.
Yeah, request source code for the firmware in the detection device or software used in the system. That source code is a trade secret and cops have no right to it. And the court isn't going to compel a company to give their competitors all their trade secrets in open court. If they DO get you the source code, though, if it is like most code, it wouldn't be terribly challenging for a skilled software engineer to describe enough failure scenarios in the software to establish whatever standard of doubt is needed.
Even better? Send them a nice letter in the mail with some An---ax. Or simply destroy by whatever means necessary, they're dumb enough to post an address of where they conduct their illegal activities. If it was us they would hold our families as accomplices and so should we theirs. No longer time to play, time to make the bad guys pay with the ultimate price.
In many parts of the US red light cameras were removed. They often provided false positives, up front cost was high, service was high, staffing was high, people actually went faster to get through the red light, it caused more accidents, and in the end they cost more than they generated and were just a headache for so many reasons.
True many days im at the end of the turning line and close to hitting the red light and have to ride on someones bumper (because they are driving too slow) but damn im not getting a ticket cause of the stupid person in front of me driving so leisurely slow. Its dangerous i know. It creates just as much danger of accidents as its trying to "prevent". And even so what is classified as a ticket offense? How much over the line? I really dont know..
@@aufache In my metro area you are not allowed to go past the limit line unless you can complete the left turn. I’m other words you can’t pull out into the intersection. In reality there is so much traffic officers don’t ticket you for being out in the intersection or completing the left after it turns red because cross traffic doesn’t stop until it’s yellow. Otherwise no one would ever complete a left. It’s so bad many intersections don’t even allow left during much of the day. You have to keep going forward to find an allowed left or make multiple rights.
There were more accidents because the city's realized if they shortens the yellow and green lights even by a second and a half a piece they would get a lot more Revenue. The key to combating this is for the state law to read that traffic lights must be synchronized for safety. There must be minimum amount of time for each specific light.
Guessing many towns are continually raising fines to cover the cost of keeping them. Imagine a $75 red-light or speeding ticket increasing to $750. There's really no reason why local govt couldn't abuse this way - they make the rules. (While the public repeatedly votes them into office to do it. Often unknowingly.)
Yes, Agenda 2030! They have been building the infrastructure for our future enslavement for years now. I have been trying to tell people this and I am considered the crazy person. They really sped it up during the plandemic. Especially during the two weeks we were supposed to sit inside cowering in fear.
Many municipalities in Arizona have gotten rid of speed cameras. Five years ago I got flashed by a camera that only monitored if my tags were up to date and if there were any warrants. I thought that was creepy, cameras looking into your car looking for crimes is way too Orwellian.
Yeah people were just going like 95 and then slamming on their brakes for the speed cameras. Accidents were caused IIRC. My favorite was the guy on a motorcycle going like 140 (something really fast), and the camera couldn't make out the plate, or the guy, he was just a blur. But that's not the goal. The goal is to get people to pay the 25 dollar fine instead of 3 days of time and 400 dollars in court fees.
A local radio station out of NYC recently had a piece about one Long Island city or county that had to issue thousands of refunds and reverse the same amount of tickets because a speed camera in a school zone was improperly programmed. It took the hue-and-cry of many people to get the issue reviewed
"Your average mad scientist with a deathray must have been smoking these devices since the 70s." Beware the dark age of the butt dialing one-liner is upon us!
I was watching Code Blue Cam on here a few months ago. The episode began with the narrator saying the two officers spotted a lady with an active warrant as they were looking at the cameras that were covering a public park. They went and arrested her. This took place in Wisconsin. Proof positive Big Brother really IS watching us!
Some states are better than others. Maine has always banned traffic cameras because you can't face your accuser if it's a computer program and camera vendor. plenty of other states have never allowed them (or failed to ever pass a vote to allow them)
Even though we have search & seizure laws in the United States, that doesn't stop them from using all this equipment on us, and compiling the data, just as they monitor all our phone conversations and recording that in a huge database.
If this does happen in America you might be able to spin 4th amendment violation. The simple fact remains that if automated enforcement reaches the level where AI can find and log every violation than literally the entire population will be broke or in jail after being nickle and dimed to death over stupid fines.
Not the entire population. I'm sure certain people, like CEOs, Congress members, etc, will be able to buy their way off lists that the AI compares against to find violations.
Most places here did away with the speed and red light cameras because court challenges made them uneconomical, and we have rights that put the constitutionality of them in question.
More so i suspect it won't be long that a technology race will erupt between aftermarket parts makers and legislation. First to market with an aftermarket glass that blocks milliwave and microwave radar along with distorting frame captures in the visible spectrum could become quite a rich fellow.
@@RiversJ Expect that window tint makers will develop a film that is a RF block to those radar systems, and just a barely legal optical tint film, for use on cars. Of course totally legal, sold for use on windows of houses, and for protecting the interior against sun damage only.
@@SeanBZA And starting to line the interior walls of the house with wifi blocking materials. I kind of want to insulate my house to make the whole thing a fairday cage.
That happened to me. I was going about 30mph along a road that had a cop on a side street across the oncoming lane. He pulled out and stopped me because I didn't have my seatbelt on. I asked him how he saw that from that distance. "I just saw it." I wondered at the time whether he had some special equipment for looking into cars. My windows were tinted, not too dark, but he could not have seen that. So, yeah, we are being watched for everything these days. They had installed a lot of cameras in the major intersections in my county, but after a couple/three years they took them down. They were to snag red light runners by license plates. The public hated them, but I know they are still around, just not as much as they were. I read why they took them down, but I don't remember now. They weren't paying for themselves, I think, between the cost of the cameras, the maintenance and replacement, traffic court costs, etc. I wish, instead of them focusing on citizens, they would instead install the cameras along our border to catch those who are breaking our laws and will continue to do so. When we focus on not wearing a seat belt instead of not having permission to enter the country, you know we are on the wrong track.
@@daveassanowicz186 according to the declaration of independence you have the right to pursue happiness, if you can't travel that affects your pursuit of happiness so no it is not a privilege - that is like saying breathing is a privilege. Too many control freaks...
I'm a truck driver, and I notice cameras in the middle of nowhere all over the country, and not just interstates. You are not traveling anonymously in this country anymore.
In the US our dauntless First Amendment auditors are rudely challenged by police for recording the interiors of police vehicles, but it’s okay to search the interiors of every passing vehicle.
Total and complete control! Next is gonna be facial recognition to see if any outstanding warrants exist or just to log your whereabouts at all times. Just imagine, driving with your face partially obscured to a camera an AI notifies the ‘authorities’ to pull you over and question you.
They're already testing Orwellian things in the UK like London. ULEZ is what they call it. Cameras with AI to keep tabs on you and your habits. And eventually they're going to "force" you to live within 15 minutes of your home(unless you're wealthy, and elite or politician that is)and fine you and then jail you if you leave your little area. Be damned freedom or say if you're a sportsman or likes camping or likes to visit friends and family that are further away for eg. And all under the guise of the environment. From the ppl who have much higher carbon footprints than the average person. And it's coming here to the US eventually and things just like it.
That sounds really invasive. Does it constitute a search without consent? And the danger with Skynet isn't the computer, it's the people behind the computers who use them for these things.
It does. And any Jude that doesn't come to that conclusion. Needs to be disbarred. Then. Something else needs to happen to them. I'm not sure what. If only there were some really smart guy that could come up with some kind of lasting resolution or something....
Its invasive but your car is visible from public place, so it goes to governments 1st amendment rights to film in public and from the public area, even though its private area. Best response to that would be have these cameras banned, but if nothing else have laws changed so you can tint all your windows properly so camera cant see inside, though that would make cops job much harder and make them trigger happier.
@@Moe_Posting_Chad It should but I don't think it will, knowing how courts "operate". Police are presently allowed to look into vehicles, and court will likely use that logic, despite the fact that ordinarily such a search requires person to be detained. If the courts cared about rights like that, they wouldn't allow forfeiture w/o convictions.
@@TheMelnTeam (((operate))) I am well aware. But we can be doomers. We fight with our words first. We fight with our attitudes second. And we don't talk about the fourth thing.
It's in the UK and they have no bill of rights but just wait..... Coming here soon I imagine. Everyone needs a turret mounted paintball gun on their vehicle roof.
Drivers Ed instructor for over 20 years here. I was talking with students in one of my classes years ago. I told them about a GPS tracking black box I saw at a car show up in Detroit one year. Auto engineer told me you could install it and then your kid says that they want to go to the library. The kid gets home and parent goes out and downloads info as to where they actually were, how fast they drove, fast accelerations, hard braking and such. The students were quite upset about their loss of privacy! Then I said, imagine if speeding (and all other infractions) were stored and you were compelled to go down and drive past the police station ever month to have the info downloaded. Your bank account was connected and all tickets would automatically be withdrawn for payment! While that system is not set up it is possible! Now with Wi-Fi and such you would not even have to drive down to the station. Automatic withdraw from account as you break the laws! Halfway to Skynet! I think not. Even closer with consideration of a milage tax on electric cars because no gas taxes being collected. Tracking would have to be done by the vehicle and law breaking info could be passed on to law enforcement. We live in a world where all this can happen!
At least in the USA the MAIN priority of citizens at this point should be removing qualified immunity from politicians, judges, DAs, and to a lesser extent police. They do whatever they want because we literally have no way to hold them accountable for their actions.
The laws really started to change in 1981, with you- know- who, and the Bushes 1&2. Freedom eroded gradually,yet ever increasing over the years. Really took off after 9/11. The powered that be barely pretend anymore that this is a power grab to control the people, just like there is now, in " certain countries.". We need more town Halls to discuss this issue,plus related ones. And the " war on crime" is used to justify the surveillance state !
It reminds me of when Boston tried to introduce systems to look up info based on your license plates. They wanted to make it more efficient to identify vehicles that lacked current license tags or similar violations. The plates are in public, so they could capture images, and a human would be able to look up the info if they were doing that same job. But it moved us in the direction of excessive involvement or standard search of all public activity. I also think of the false positives. I know someone who received a citation in the mail. Not only was he out of state at the time of the offense, but he circled the vehicle description and the photo of the offending vehicle when he refused to pay. It pulled info on the wrong plate. So the photo showed a black van, and the info that was pulled was for his white car. Yet, no one else noticed that the two didn't match. It was BLACK and WHITE! (and van vs car)
The other problem with those automatic ticket issues is that people can steal your plates (aka clone them) because the car model and color match, so YOU get all these tickets because of someone else running around with a stolen car and racking up tickets on your plates.
In major cities like Los Angels and Las Vegas they have license plate scanners that automatically scan plates as the cops drive and pop up an alert if a plate hasn't been registered or renewed.
To be honest, in many cases the problems these systems cause are not actually because of the system itself, but because of the way people have chosen to use it. For many situations, automated systems like this may be a legitimate and useful _tool_ for police officers to more efficiently do their jobs, but the problem is that far too often they are actually being used as a _replacement_ for police officers instead. The problem isn't that machines/AI are being added into the equation, the real problem is just that humans are being _taken out_ of the equation when they shouldn't be (usually to save money). The flashy new technology is what everybody focuses on, but as a result the actual problem that everybody should be focusing on is largely ignored and unaddressed.
These kinds of cameras have been operating in the city of Moscow, Russia for over a year now. But the system still cannot pick out seatbelt use on dark clothing, and every violation picked up must be signed off by a human, a police employee. The camera cases have been made bullet-proof for a reason, but the mounts aren't.
I was talking with a gentleman at the Minneapolis air port who was in town working on a contract adding facial recognition to all of the cameras in Minneapolis, he said they were about 1/3 of the way done. I believe the courts in MN have ruled that fines cannot be issued to the owner of a car based on the license plate, so we currently have no fines from cameras, I bet this will be challenged after this system is up and running.
I am in Minneapolis. I noticed a ton of new cameras that went up throughout the plandemic. I never sat inside scared for two weeks. Every city I drove through they were working on the cell towers as well. This is all part of the Agenda 2030 sustainable development goals.
For x-rays to work you need a transmitter on one side of the object and a receiver on the other side to pick up the image. We cannot make x-ray cameras mimic Superman's vision. There's also an exposure issue because we're unnecessarily exposing people to harmful radiation.
Far too expensive and hazardous. Just wait a few years and they'll be making wifi imager software mandatory on all wifi devices (yes this is a thing already, it's possible to get a microwave real time feed of the surroundings of a wifi device, range about half that of useable wifi range so through walls etc)
They don't need X-rays. I saw a YT vid where they can use background WiFi signals to see through walls. And also seen someone use an infra-red laser to detect the vibrations in a window whichwas then translated into sound so they can hear what people are saying in the room behind the window.
Those creepy weirdos are everywhere! 😬 I see them peering into cars, both parked in lots and on the street every day!! Usually they have blue or khaki colored clothing and some kind of shiny stuff on their chests 😐.
@@darrylbarker505 while I may call later, they won't show up in time to do squat!! Unless I give them a video with faces and a license plate, they won't even find the guys!!
@@darrylbarker505 they aren't going to do anything. The situation will be over by the time they get there! I need them to write a report and put me in jail overnight, because that's what they do!! There's no situation that the cops can't make worse!!
@@darrylbarker505 you don't understand how long it takes cops to show up and how quickly crime can be committed by the time the cops get their the criminals are gone
@Darryl Barker if I try to defend myself and my property that's EXACTLY what they do! The situation has resolved itself in one way or another long before the police arrive! You go ahead and retreat to your "safe room" and hope Sir!! Good Luck 🤞!!
In TN one guy had game wardens sneaking onto his property and putting up cameras. I believe that was after they released wolves into the area. I am not making this stuff up.
Something like this has been happening in Tennessee for years now. For example I forgot to renew my tags a couple different times in the past 5 years or so. When I would leave my house a cop would randomly end up behind me and pull me over giving me a ticket. They had to have already known and been alerted and track when I was going to leave my house.
More than likely it was a tag reader monitor that got you. They have them here in Jersey that let's police know everything about the vehicle and owner.
@@bribri1657- 100% guarantee your local law enforcement has at least one vehicle equipped as it is now ubiquitous tech installed in most divisions with at least a single patrol vehicle. It's federal funding
@@johndel1971able - They are pretty much everywhere now thanks to federal funding and lobbying against the 4th amendment arguments there were and died out thanks to said lobbying
@@bribri1657 Maybe they stuck a GPS tracker on your vehicle that alerts them that your vehicle is on the road. Or they have a cop staked outside of your house.
Lawyers need to get smarter and challenge anything related to AI enforcing laws. If the Supreme Court has determined that AI generated art or other content cannot own a copyright then it cannot create a citation on behalf of a government.
And strongly suggest AI judges. Hearing that, judges may come to their senses realizing their own jobs are on the line and rule against unfettered use of AI. Come to think of it, AI judges might actually be better in many situations. Or maybe the government will require binding arbitration as a condition of having a driver's license, but I digress.
That’s not how this works in real life. The AI collects the evidence and forwards it to the technician who actually issues the citation…… loophole averted. It’s like in the 2014 remake of Robocop. The Dreyfus act prohibited deploying robots on the street…. So they deployed a robot with the illusion of free will and human emotion.
@@ronbennett7885 AI judges will likely outperform a large % of human judges within 5-10 years in terms of performance (whether it's legally allowed is another matter, I wonder which way judges will rule on that one lol).
This would be great if these cameras are placed around every police station and every government building .. yah know just to see what the data comes back with during the trial run.
Something similar is already being used in FL. It uses facial recognition cameras located at all public facilities as well as traffic intersections. While sitting at a red light they can scan your license plate, your face, etc. Then run your info through their database. EDIT: for more info, google: Pinellas County Sheriff's Office - RTCC (real time crime center)- F.A.C.E.S program
@@ubuynow Not true. Police routinely scan plates in cities all over the country. Many municipalities have license plate readers on their police cars. They don't have to have a reason.
@@admthrawnuru oh there are other ways. An 18 volt grinder with a masonry blade will get you the camera and most of the mast in roughly ten seconds flat. It's a touch more up close and personal, I heard....
@@Sab_MJsMamadude, they are committing genocide … no one ghastly anyone gives a flying f…. I’ve been mad… I’ve been working with a bunch of people demonstrating it’s useless unless we have a bloody war at this point… are you ready for that? and doing something, all in vain … getting mad isn’t going to stop it, it might get people to oppose it, but
@@Sab_MJsMama Afraid, no. Aggressive, yes. Monitor your legislators and if they are about to vote on something like this, tell all your friends and have them write to the legislators. Tell them that they will be voted out of office if they pass laws that allow this technology to be used in your state. I'm finding out as I get older that the fight for freedom didn't just end in 1776; it's an ongoing battle. Our legislators won't allow this to happen if too many loud voices oppose this. I know this is a lot of work, but it sounds like it's worth it.
Amazon is already doing something similar with their contracted delivery drivers. Any van delivering Amazon packages has to have an AI camera that watches the driver looking for "mistakes". Basically, it penalizes that driver with demerits if they're not paying attention or driving unsafely. The problem is, they are way too sensitive and will ding the driver if they - for example - look around to check their blind spot (not looking ahead). Or if another car gets too close and cuts them off (clearly you were getting too close to other cars).
Which is the real problem with this kind of thing: Amazon doesn't _care_ if you have actually done something dangerous. What Amazon cares about is feeding you a line of BS during your next, "performance review," so that they can justify a tiny (or non-existent) raise. This has been the management trick for a VERY long time. If they can get you to buy into the BS that you are not really a very good employee they can convince you that you don't really deserve a raise regardless of the fact that it actually means that you aren't even making as much (in real terms) as you did the year before. The cost of food (which they always leave out of the 'official' inflation numbers) is going up by something like 25% per year! The vast majority of the US population spends a huge portion of their income on food. Don't even ask about the costs of shelter...
@@driatrogenesis Same with over the road truckers…. AI dash cams make it endless hours of 110% perfect driving or you get flagged for taking your eyes off the road for that 3 second glance to check the clock on the radio.
Amazon drivers regularly block intersections, there is signage do not block intersection oh, God forbid you want to make a right turn... you might be sitting there through several sequences of previous lights... the drivers are also pretty rude driving wise...LAXVESPA-LOSANGELES
As I said, @@rjlaxvespa1742, that's not because the _drivers_ want to cause trouble for everyone else. It's because that is what Amazon _demands_ of them. They don't care if their drivers get tickets. Amazon isn't paying the ticket and if the driver gets one they can simply be replaced with another wage-slave. Out-sourcing the costs and retaining the benefits. That's the corporate ideal.The corporation doesn't care if you're inconvenienced (or killed, for that matter) as long as people keep handing over their money.
You can put a few high intensity infrared LED in the window and by the license plate it does not obscure anything from human eyes but will blind cameras showing only a white blob
You can fix it by adjusting the image brightness, though. The stuff behind the blob will still be visible after you fix it. I bet you could get an AI algorithm to do it automatically.
@@joewilson3393 no, put a strip all the way around pointed at the windshield. Same with the license plates, all the way around. Also, all the AI in the world won’t fix saturated detectors. If they can still get around it, that’s when it’s time for active jamming. Use AI and an IR laser to target the cameras/detectors. You can also mount a magnetron from a microwave oven in the focal point of a parabolic dish, aim the dish at the equipment with or without AI and robotics, and have a ton of disruptive fun.
I live in a very small town. A bit larger city is north of us and I read a month or so ago that they were thinking of adding cameras here along the highway that passes through our town to try to identify a person or persons being sought after by id'ing their car, plate and face. Like any worthy device that really has merit, in time it will be used for other things that violate our rights. I am 68 so as I see this world " going to hell in a hand basket" as they say, I am glad I won't be around too awful long to see the extra crazy stuff our government does or people in general.... Thinks back to the Toliet Paper crisis when covid hit. 🤪
I live in NJ and we used to have traffic cameras at intersections. They increased accident rates massively because people would slam on their brakes to avoid tickets. Also I think the companies doing it were ticketing too early on yellows to make extra money. They're illegal statewide now but they kept the cameras up to use them for smart lights at the intersections.
@@wilfredvanvalkenburgh2874 so wtf is the yellow light for if it's treated as a red? I'd appeal that shit as it has to be the most braindead ruling I've ever heard of.
@@tetedur377 My lawyer said an appeal might cost $35,000. I asked what would happen then. He replied "they will just pass another unconstitutional law". It's basically our money fighting our money in "their" court.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” -C. S. Lewis
This is already widespread here in Australia. Governments have realised how lucrative these cameras are and are expanding rapidly. Various states did 3-6 month trials over the past few years - only warnings, no fines - and they caught tens of thousands of people (I believe on a single camera in my state). So, of course they approved them, and now we have automatic speed cameras, seat belt detection, mobile phone use detection, parking infringements (has been the case for over a decade but also expanding/becoming fully automatic), unregistered vehicle detection, distracted driving (eating, hands off steering wheel, etc), etc. You don’t even need to be using the phone in my state; you can get a $1000+ fine just for having a phone sitting on you, like in your lap. One woman even got fined because she had her phone in her bra. It’s learning every day; who knows what offences will be next. Edit: Oh, and point to point speed cameras are becoming much more common.
You gave up your guns because the State said "its scary, think of the children." You deserve it. You deserve every abuse the State gives you. Australians are even worse than the English in the despotism they enabled their State to embody.
Having lived in Australia for a few years in the early 70's and after decades visiting again last year I was shocked at the "police state" it has become and how docile and whipped so many of its citizens have become. By the end of my trip I must say I have no desire to go there again.
When does "seat-belt detection" override newer safety standards. There are mobile phone glasses now, will we see more handicap people denied their rights like the gun brace arguments with ATF. Last I checked a legal driver could have one arm or while wearing a cast. Are we to be medically experimented on every time a back pain flares up or will they stick to grooming the children? A disaster a couple generations down the line is a great place for a congress intern to hide mistakes.
Not sure about other states, but in the state of Tennessee, if your windows are tinted and you have a 4-inch strip across the very top of the front of your windshield, the police or anyone else is not allowed to use that evidence against you in a court of law. You're not even allowed to use that information to go get a search warrant. This is already been fought over in the state of Tennessee and that was the final ruling.
I was a stop light a few weeks ago, checking my phone while I was stopped. Guy in car next to me kept glaring at me. I met his eyes, nodded at him, but he kept staring, had a smirk on his face too. Light turned green, I put my phone down and the other guys lane started moving first. It was only then I realized he was LAPD. He was so perfectly parallel to me I couldnt see the sirens, city emblem, or even uniform from where I was seating. I thanked him for his discretion, he gave me a thumbs up, we went are sperate ways. Not all are A holes.
Not all but far too many with the code of brothers in arms often unwilling to self-correct each other's behavior. While there are certainly good cops, we need accountability and correction to reduce it to rare occasion their power is used abusively and in such rare occasions are met with swift and harsh penalties to deter similar actions as today we still have a big problem
I remember a story I read when the traffic cams first started sending people speeding tickets in the mail. A guy received a traffic ticket for speeding in the mail with a picture of his car licence plate and the amount of the fine he was to pay. So the guy sends the court a picture of the money. The judge not amused sent him back a picture of a warrant.. that was the end of the article I am pretty sure how it ended . Pretty funny stuff though.
Where I used to live they passed the seatbelt law by telling everybody that it would be a secondary offence if you were stopped for something else and did not have your seatbelt on. After it was passed it didn't take very long before they started setting up seatbelt check points where they would stop everybody, just to check if they had their seatbelts on.
You are right, people can pull a baby or toddler behind them on a BIKE IN TRAFFIC, YOU CAN RIDE A MOTORCYCLE WITHOUT A HELMET YET YOU HAVE TO WRRE A SEATBELT .I ALWAYS DO FOR SAFETY REASONS BUT THAT SHOLD BE OUR CHOICE. IT GIVES POLICE ANOTHER EXCUSE TO PULL US OVER AND THAT SHOULDENT HAPPEN.
@@markthomas9703 Back in1963 we were moving out west and traveling on I-40 between Albuquerque and Gallop, NM. We were in a van loaded pretty good, we blew a tire, my mother was driving and the van rolled, when it stopped rolling the doors came open and I stepped out and my mother almost made it out, before the whole load came crashing through the seat and into the windshield, she was trapped by the load, there was a trooper right behind us, he said we were only doing 45mph and he also told us if we had been fasten in with the seatbelts, we would have both died right there right then, in 1963, and I would not have been around for this last 60 years. Yes I use my seat belts now and I still ride my Goldwing motorcycle ,with a helmet on. But if they would have had the mandatory seatbelt law back then, well I would not have graduated from high school, been drafted into the Army, sent to Vietnam , got my commercial helicopter license, or any of the other things I have seen in the last 60 years. Now I am 76 years old and going strong, well pretty much anyways. LOL Getting ready to go cut firewood this morning, got to keep moving. Have a great day and stay safe.
@@markthomas9703 I feel the same. Seat belts should be a personal preference. I doubt very much if I decided not to wear my seat belt that it would endanger anyone else.
I want to see how many people who are against this were fine with the NSA spying on private citizens, saying idiotic things like "if youre not breaking the law, you have nothing to hide."
I work as a software engineer in a tech space that utilizes 3d object image recognition on a daily basis for our core services. Now for us we have a static fixed 3d space and we just have to track people and objects. You would not believe how often it is these systems make a mistake. "That balloon must be a person" for example. Now a camera with a single plane of perspective, or even multiple planes along the same hyperplane, it is still dealing with a car going very fast. It can take computers multiple seconds per frame to process and classify each frame. I can tell you if anything will limit skynet: it's cost. As the processing power needed with today's computers is quite high.
Usa has already been guilty until proven inoccent.... a cop can lie about you speeding... no radar, no camera... but the judge 100% will take the cops word and you lose... they didn't prove guilt but you still got a ticket.
@@jabrockobiden9434 then why do you sit in jail for long lengths of time as an innocent person. You can literally be locked up for months and be innocent until you get to trial and then hope you are rich enough for a good lawyer. If not then it’s an automatic conviction for the prosecutor to get a notch to further his career.
I'm in SW Ohio, my township has begun installing solared powered cameras at multiple intersections all over the township. People think movies are just that, watch Enemy of the State with Will Smith....they are telling you what they can do. The Patriot Act was supposed to protect us, I actually took away some of the laws that protected us.
The only times I've had a hot ash fall of off my cigarette was after my state required them to have the "fire safe" paper on them. I've since burned holes in my car seats and clothing. When the government gets involved in things they know nothing about, it never turns out well. JMO.
I've seen a camper with a one-way front window. You can't even tell it is a window from outside, but from the inside you have a perfectly clear view. We need to take our privacy back by developing windows for our vehicles that we can see out and nobody can see in. As long as the occupants of the vehicle can see the road unobstructed, nobody should have a right to see into the vehicle including law enforcement.
We have these in Australia Steve, promoted by the governments as mobile phone cameras. Recently reported in the media was a charge against a male driver where his female passenger was performing an intimate act on him while he was driving. The charge, I recall, was serious in that it involved some form of dangerous driving. Totally unrelated, of course, to any mobile phone use.
You have the scientists who created them in New Zealand bunkers. Take your complaints upstream to the source of all this western legal drama. Do not buy from New Zealand, it allows them to launder money for that inhumane research. Remember the Australian rat plague, all their doing with gene splicing "golden rice" and coconut leaves in the desert. And for fucks sake man get on a public domain computer system.
I live in Sydney and I know that they have the mobile phone cameras. I have seen articles that the ones in Brisbane also check if you are wearing your seatbelt correctly
We have a right to face our accuser(s) and be tried by our peers. They won’t bring in the AI to answer questions. They will only present the results. And any AI is not and never will be our peer.
There are other places you don’t have the right. When cps claims are made against you is one. And that system is so abused and tragic Our country is on a downward spiral
How does a speeding ticket work. You can not ask the cops speedometer questions. The cop, if they are telling the truth, can not tell how fast you are doing with any accuracy.
Yeah, that’s not how this will work. They put 10 or 15 people in an office building somewhere in London, and they’ll be reviewing everything that gets flagged and sent to them by the AI. They’ll reject the ones that aren’t clear-cut and except all of the ones where you’ve got the phone to your ear or you’re not wearing your seatbelt and they’ll issue the citations on their recognizance, not the machine. They are your accuser, not the AI that gather the information for them.
The biggest problem with this is there's enough laws on the books to make anything a crime. And anyone can read between the lines on that. You know what that means
What's fun is certain areas in England instead of the camera using radar, it just records when you pass it, then when you pass another, it does the same and determines how fast you had to be going to cover that distance.
that's "Average Speed Camera" usually used on roadworks to 'assist' in limiting speed for construction worker safety to 50 MPH. sadly due to speedo inaccuracy most people are doing barely 45 and they get antsy when you in an HGV using GPS for a more accurate speed reading, pass them to meet your obligations to your employer and make the best of the very complicated 'Drivers Hours' and 'Working Time Directive'!
I've long believed that tickets issued from camera evidence alone should be illegal, since they eliminate the 'enforcement' from the "violation, enforcement, penalty" chain.
That logic doesn’t track. They can issue you a warning just as easily as a citation … your argument won’t pass cursory scrutiny. AI just means they filter first time offenders and warn them and cite the rest. My cell phone takes 5 second bursts and pics the best exposure…. But it saves the videos too. Same with modern traffic cams.
@@Matt-yg8ub It's true that photos by themselves are unlikely to be capable of proving most traffic violations though. You probably need video footage for that at minimum. Driving through a yellow light that turns red when you're in the intersection is not a violation. Camera can take a picture of red light + car in intersection...burden of proof shouldn't be on the driver there. Same for right turn claims. Could easily do fake speeding tickets too, though so could police. Video footage might be preferable to police interaction, though I suspect it will be handled in a way that sucks by gov't, like "that's literally not the vehicle you claim" taking undue work to sort out type of bullcrap. But at least the camera won't drag you out of the car, beat the crap out of you, then still search it anyway, quite possibly doing more than looking into it. Or use fake dog alerts to bypass rights.
@@TheMelnTeam I deal with this stuff every day…. It’s what I do for a living. I design and create integrated inspection and remote data collection systems for local my government. Just because they mail you a still image, doesn’t mean they don’t have the video …. Or the radar telemetry in some cases. We even tested out a static LIDAR setup in a high volume intersection to give exact measurements of crash data. Not only can I tell if you made a right turn against the light, I can tell how fast you were traveling as you approached the intersection, if you tailgated the vehicle in front of you and wether or not you cut a vehicle on the cross street off when you turned. The amount of data modern systems can collect is limited only by the amount of storage the city is willing to pay for.
My point is, that with a camera, there isn't an "enforcement" phase of the violator being stopped, admonished by law enforcement, and issued a summons (or a warning). Being pulled over at the time of violation is a much better preventative against repeating the offense than receiving a ticket in the mail a few weeks later. If it's a red light camera, how many chances are there to repeat the behavior and possibly causing an accident before the magic ticket arrives?
Remember that old Rush song? My uncle has a country place, that no-one knows about He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law Sundays I elude the ‘Eyes’, and hop the Turbine Freight To far outside the Wire, where my white-haired uncle waits Jump to the ground As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline Run like the wind As excitement shivers up and down my spine Down in his barn My uncle preserved for me an old machine For fifty-odd years To keep it as new has been his dearest dream I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car A brilliant red Barchetta, from a better, vanished time Fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar! Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime… Wind in my hair - Shifting and drifting - Mechanical music Adrenalin surge - Well-weathered leather Hot metal and oil The scented country air Sunlight on chrome The blur of the landscape Every nerve aware Suddenly ahead of me, across the mountainside A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase Drive like the wind Straining the limits of machine and man Laughing out loud With fear and hope, I’ve got a desperate plan At the one-lane bridge I leave the giants stranded At the riverside Race back to the farm To dream with my uncle At the fireside…
Here in Texas, They used to have red light cameras, and they removed all of them a few years ago. Plus, if they install those cameras, we'll just use them as target practice.
Wow have things changed. Steve, your comment about smoking reminded me of a situation from my youth. I'm about your age and when I was in my late teens a buddy of mine had a minor accident. He was rolling up to a red light and hit the car in front of him because he was checking out a hot girl a couple cars over. Very minor damage, just two dented bumpers. When he was explaining it to his insurance adjuster he didn't want to say that he was checking out the girl so he told them he dropped a cigarette in his lap. The adjuster said "Don't worry about it. Happens all the time". Wouldn't be surprised if these cameras get programmed to ticket distracted driving if they catch someone sneezing.
Or eating while driving. Or adjusting the radio, or looking for something in the car, or any one of a million things not directly driving related. Remember, their guy shows up for court the same day, every week. He's going to be there even if nobody shows up to contest the ticket. You, on the other hand, have to take the day off of work to contest it. You'll lose $150 to fight a $60 fine.
@@jdlech So? Principals are worth fighting. Your defeatist FED POSTING has no power here. You wish people would stop showing to contest their fines, you wish they would stop being angry. You pray the day doesn't come, and it will come, that the people finally decide... What might that decision be? Why would a Fed pray to a God he scorned? Who knows? : ^ )
@@Moe_Posting_Chad Probably better to fight those principles on legislative side rather than hoping enough people lose time and money on principle. At least, if the objective is to prevent government from preying on people. Judicial accountability is something I'd love to start seeing in campaigns too.
Ever since I received a bill for toll on a highway, along with a picture of my vehicle I've been skeptical about all this. My car is a Subaru; the picture was of the back end of a tractor trailer.
IMO, in the US, cameras are NOT verified with human review. I would refer to the numerous tickets issued to funeral processions for 'running a red' though allowed by police escort. And of course, not all vehicles have seatbelts. Some have lap belts, and IIRC shoulder straps were required after 1977
@@LeifNelandDk Why bother, the number who query will be low, and there will be enough people who just pay, rather than bother to contest, to make it worthwhile. By me they are trying to make it that the courts do not have to contest tickets, but the agency who issued them is the appeal agency. That one is on appeal before even starting, as the people are saying that they have no right to appeal. as you have to first pay, then pay again to get a hearing, where they will affirm the ticket again and make you pay again. Part of it was that simply emailing you a ticket was classed as serving you.
Авто/Мото
Here in Oregon, a medium size community hired an Australian company to install cameras at traffic lights and automatically issue tickets. The revenue came pouring in to the pockets of the company and the town fathers. They both wanted more so they shortened the yellow lights "a bit" and it worked. Finally, someone filed a class action lawsuit against the town fathers and they won. It almost bankrupted the town. Good for them.
@@samueldavila2156 It's something to teach the whole town or city not to allow such a thing to come to be. Americans need to stand up against this kind of corruption way before someone has to file a lawsuit. Just because these higher ups think they are gods doesn't mean they are.
@@daniel73minshall They r prof ess ion al ai s n o o p d a w g s.
Think of the malice they intended: now, let’s beat some ass while we still can…
Good. As an Oregonian. I hate these new age ways to screw citizens 😤
Someone needs to file a lawsuit of privacy and consent..They also can look directly inside of your home...
We moved out of FL in 2018. We haven’t been back. We brought our two cars and registered them in our new state right away. Last year, we got a ticket for a plate in Tampa on a type of car we never owned. The photo was unreadable, but possibly shared a digit with a tag from one car from before we left FL., but that tag was also a special plate, and the ticket photo tag was different colors.
We didn’t have to pay the ticket, but I still had to waste my time clearing it up. The ticket is not generated by a human, nor reviewed by a human. An AI decides the garbage photo has meaning and it finds what it decides might be a match, and generates the ticket.
So what happens when the AI mistakenly decides you’re on the most wanted list? Or that your kid’s hockey stick is an illegal weapon? Or that baby you made last year is the amber alert victim kidnapped two states away?
This is NOT okay.
They don't care. That's all negligible to them for the control they get. Remember the people running our government are not like you and me, our interests don't align
The only reason municipalities and local governments here in the US get away with these cameras is because most people will just pay the fine. All you have to do to get out of any of these camera tickets is to show up to court (as you have the right to face your accusers). Unfortunately it is a lucrative scam, yet it is not constitutional, and though it is a pain in the rear our mass non-compliance is necessary
You need to at the very least open a small claims case for the time you wasted, any money you spent, plus personal suffering for this caused you. If enough people did this, the system would be bankrupted.
Most of the time the city doesn't own the cameras, the company does. They split the revenue generated, and the company handles all of the paperwork.
This is a privacy nightmare. Want to know what women in their late twenties keep in their cars? Teenage boys in theirs? Who owns the content of these images?
We are paying to be spied upon by our own governments, who then use large corporations who then use AI connected to government databases to match licenses in pictures connected with "crimes".
Do I have that right? That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
@@danpetermann6509 It is true. I know in LI NY the company paid for all the equipment and will maintain it as well for 45% of the ticket revenue. This is not even constitutional by any stretch of the imagination.
Recently, in Maryland, my daughter was STOPPED at a red light and checked her phone momentarily. A police officer behind her pulled her over and informed her that the camera at the light identified her as using her hand-held device and immediately sent him a notification because (via GPS) he was close to her. He gave her a warning. Thinking this is not happening already in the US is simply being naive.
EDIT: Please understand that I was not saying that my daughter was right or wrong to check messages when at a full stop at a light known to be long, I was just stating what had happened. I agree that handheld devices are a distraction at any time and should be avoided when behind the wheel of a running vehicle. I would say talking using hands-free devices, manually tuning the radio, and even arguing with passengers ("Kids, knock it OFF!") are distractions. Could this AI monitor catch those things, as well?
This is truly frightening. AND just the tip of the iceberg.
I can't tell you the number of times that I've witnessed something while driving that prompted me to make a 911 call: injury accidents, brush fire, structural fire. I wonder how many tickets I would've racked up over the years.
Its naive to believe a GLOW IN THE DARK FED LIKE YOU. And it's also naive to give into FUD PROPAGANDA like this. Shit will not stand the test of the courts in America.
Do not be a victim. They want you that way, because they are sexually aroused by your humiliation. Stand up. Defy them and their plans. They hate this the most.
Signed for the warning? Cuz I would not.
No, literally it's not happening anywhere in the US. There are no cell phone camera enforcement. Nice trying to fearmonger, though.
We have these cursed things in So California.
Several years ago, my son got tagged going through a red light (they really DO shorten the yellow). For some reason, the ticket- along with a crystal clear picture of my kid behind the wheel-came to ME (his mother), even though I’m not a teenaged boy or even the legal/registered owner of the car (it’s titled in my husband/his dad’s name). Ridiculously, the ticket was certified and signed by an actual person, attesting to the fact that I was the person behind the wheel (I clearly was not).
Well, I was still legally required to pay the $600 “bail” (to avoid any late fees while waiting for the hearing) and to show up at court to plead not guilty (my defense: “It wasn’t me.”).
Once my day came, the court wanted (and tried to get) me to identify the driver, which isn’t my legal responsibility, and I refused to do so. They then tried to get me to plead guilty to a lesser infraction, which would have taken the ticket down to about $130, which-again-I would not do.
Those SOBs made me stand before the judge (so f-ing lame), but he did ultimately dismiss the case. I got my $600 back, but what a waste of time!
Here in Southern California, we have “traffic cameras” at every major intersection and at every freeway on/off ramp. It’s a hideous invasion of privacy and overreach, and I HATE it.
If this is true, it implies they're using an machine learning algorithm, and it probably identified a vehicle in your name or the insurance holder if he's part of your household or had him as a dependent on your taxes. They're fucked up. You should like. Say this in real life. And what im saying.
Sadly, not everyone will have your abilities to think through, and refuse to be browbeaten into pleading guilty for something you didn't do! Much respect to you!
They get away with this because most people will just pay it.
If you hate the SoCal cameras do like many of us have already done. Leave the third world country and move to a much more free state!
@@OpenCarryUSMC My entire family (including in-laws and great-nephews) lives here.
A number of years ago some country, I think it was Germany, deployed ultra high tech speed cameras that took a photo of both the driver and the passenger. It caught a bunch of politicians driving with female passengers who was not the wife. And of course the tickets get mailed home, with the photo, where they were opened by, the wife. Huge outcry over "invasion of privacy".
lol
This is why red light cameras in my town were taken down after 2 years, too many "important" people, family, friends, supporters etc. of important people were getting caught. These cameras are for the little people not for us!
@@rsmith3062 What I fear are "ultra smart" cameras that do things like adjust your apparent speed up 5 mph if you are the wrong political party. Or ignore traffic violations if your license plate is on the approved list.
@@rsmith3062 Easy to avoid...just put the photos of all the important people in a no scan file....whenever they're detected the software ignores them.....if they haven't done that already they will.
@@hermesten1000 You must live in a world of Wizards and Princesses. That's not really how automation works. Your hubris is incredible. You really to believe the propaganda, don't you?
As a retired peace officer, this invasion of our privacy concerns me. I agree with you Steve that once the "foot is in the door" there will be more to come. Sadly, government "leaders" sometimes make laws contrary to common sense and our freedoms, be it for money or power, it does and will happen. Don't ever underestimate the ability of power hungry people to keep taking and taking (our freedoms, taxes, programs that benefit the few, etc.).
@@jsmith-u5i while true, the inside of the vehicle has long been considered part of a person's private domain. Ive got no issues with cameras recording and ticketing road rule infractions but infractions inside a vehicle should never be seen.
You have to be a former police officer to realize this?
"Peace officer"
Lol.
@@yurmabeechaudits3522expect the corrupt scrotus to rule in favor of the surveillance state.
@@yurmabeechaudits3522if they can see it from outside it’s fine. Called plain view doctrine.
I might not mind this if we could have AI-enabled cameras monitoring our public officials as well.
Nope. Their too good for that! They just want YOU to be watched!
@@devilsatan2973
✅ Exactly! Look at it this way: we don't go to church to criticize God, because God is Lord, and he is beyond reproach! We are the unwashed peasants, who's duty it is to go to church to confess OUR sins, and to beg for forgiveness from the Lord....
The same is true of government and political leaders. They are our secular lords! Unlike us, they are incorruptible and virtuous. They know what's best for us! So it's critical for them to be able to monitor all aspects of our lives, so they can punish us like the petulant children we are! 🤡
Nope, privacy is a privilege of the elite
I would not mind this if it ONLY monitored public officials. They are supposed to work for us. We are not supposed to be a "free bank" creditors for them.
They exempt themselves from things like this.
Bad laws enforced by corrupt people. What could possibly go wrong?
Uh… more Biden, or worse, more Obama? That’s where we’re going.
42,939 deaths per year in the US is what could go wrong. And speeding, distracted driving and texting are among the biggest causes of traffic accidents. You tell me what could go wrong.
You said it right, "casing the car to see what they can steal". Perfect example of what this does.
The police dont even want to be filmed in public yet theyll be the right arm of mass survaillance on us
@@0annonymous yeah wow, that’s great. Another step towards being in a third world nation.
Yep out creepy gov. Don't forget when they make a mistake it's ok. Just you that has to deal with the stess.
Good lord, the govt control freaks just can't stop themselves. Next up, they'll put ai cams in toilets, because they just can't stand not seeing what goes in there!
@@ArcticxWind out gov...? Speaking of making mistakes
Once AI is networked to not only these traffic cameras, but all other big brother cameras, its over for us. This is so dangerous.
I was reading on how to foil A.I> facial recognition and it is darn near impossible, even while wearing sunglasses. Guess it can see through the lense. What did work was sunglasses with the twilight Zone spinning tunnel, cork screw type thing image printed on the lense. I thought hey thats cool, just need to find a party store that sells them.
It wouldn't get to this point if polite society would stop being polite
@CBEdits anybody who would sacrifice liberty for safety deserves neither.
@@iraqifoodcart8447My recent ancestors sacrificed both. I wish I'd been born before the failed generations of the 1900s.
The real problem is they don't publish the rate of false positives. These systems are far from being infallible. The people making these decisions most likely do not understand Bayes' Theorem.
@snow leopard , they just don't care.
The process is the punishment. They create laws to legalize what they were doing for 20 years before the law was drafted.
The solution is obvious. Who is brave enough to do it? How much further do you let them push you?
It's because they don't record false positives correctly if it records it at all and so that information would be wrong even if they did give out that information. Many times it's also managed by dumb people who don't know how to operate it except for a limited amount of stuff that they are allowed to do by management.
Don't understand or too stupid to understand it
Why do the false positives matter? Just like with red light cameras, a review by a human is required before tickets are issued (and even then, you can go before a judge to contest it).
For all other people that don’t know, in Lafayette Louisiana we got rid of red light cameras, by not paying the tickets issued by mail. I’m talking from experience. When the red light cameras were instituted, the yellow lights were shortened. You can expect the same. Here in Louisiana laws were written that says only licensed enforcement can write tickets. They just hope people will pay tickets that are only civil matters.
That's how Texas got rid of them also. I got two of those red light tickets and I never paid them.
I used to work for the Traffic department in the United States. We began installing cameras on highways then replaced all loop detection with cameras.
We ALWAYS USED To zoom INSIDE a vehicle to things despite publicly and officially we said we did not do that. Yes I am saying we lied and did so from the start. This was twenty years ago and NOW we have the technology to zoom in more with better quality. ALREADY HAPPENED
To clarify I specifically worked for a large city Traffic Department and this was routine 20 years ago
Who ever heard of a traffic department? Your not being honest. Sounds like your not even from America.
@@fragelicious Probably an AI comment lol. They can’t zoom into anything with those potato cams. Ton of likes for a dumb comment too.
@@fragelicious Also what kind of idiot thinks that a “Traffic Department “ that is responsible for the installation and maintenance of traffic lights signs etc. does not exist?? Think they magically appear and magically fix themselves???
In order to be charged with breaking a law in the US, you need to be able to face your accuser in a court of law… a camera cannot show up in court and accuse you of anything. Any judge or prosecutor that issues charges based on what they see on camera alone is unconstitutional.
Humans are cattle. It's pathetic. The elite are right we're scum
Definitely going to get invasive about the cholesterol from a traffic cam. I actually spent 500 to get rid of a 550 dollar ticket. The lawyer who handled it was like, "I can't guarantee you'll win," and I told him point blank I'd rather not eat and challenge this and lose than to simply eat the poo sandwich and pretend I like it." It was a principal for me. I won, saved 50 bucks, and the most interesting part of it was that the camera at that intersection and one right next to it vanished. I don't know that it had anything to do with my case, but it might have.
What concerns me about all this is that as we fail to challenge these bogus tickets and the ever more aggressive creep into our privacy and lives we are creating the president to empower their overreach as the standard and eventually it'll become law.
Even creepier is the corporate creep into our lives too. Every company wants more and more access. I imagine there is a possible future where our phones would tattle on us for picking them up merely while the car is on! Uh oh... someone appears to have the intent to drive while on their phone... it'll be touted as a safety feature, and with the GPS and "lost," tracking data they'll be able to send a drone to deliver your ticket in real time. Maybe even pull you over.
As the potentials for being bullied to the side of the road with red and blue lights increases, I want a button that guides me to the nearest police station. I don't want to be out in the middle of nowhere with a cop and their gun with my impossibly sassy mouth. No thanks! Better to have the whole department beat and murdre me on multiple cameras than just the two that magically fail out there...
Social injustice isn't about traffic cams. Its about all available housing rentals being bought up at ocean size chunks, buy foreigners who immediately jack the rent up 5 times higher. Choose a better battle, Buddy. Ppl are living in tents. Everywhere.
Anytime you hire a lawyer or an attorney (they're not the same thing) you have already lost.
Do you know what you are doing when you do hire either of those?
In the eyes of the court you have become a ward of the court. You basically are telling the court that you are not mentally able to defend yourself. If you show up to court you have 99% of the time already lost.😢
@@mawi1172I'm glad you told that switch hitter off mate.
@@Azazelcobb An old saying, "He who represents himself (in court) has a fool for a client" You don't stand much of a chance without a sh-ster.
@@kramselab If I remember correctly, I didn't say that you should represent your self. I simply stated that if you show up for a summons on the day requested.
99% of the time you've already lost you just don't know it.
Most people have no idea of what is actually occuring in a courtroom.
Unless you are familiar with the foreign language used in court you have a better chance of understanding Chinese sign language.
I live in the U.S.A. I worked for a company called Stake Center, I had a company vehicle. They put "Drive Cam" cameras powered with A.I. technology that can track your eyes, detect if you are using a phone, even just looking at it, they can detect if you are eating food.. the list goes on and on. It's intrusive, creepy, and just wrong.
It’s an abuse of power and authority !! When free citizens are being penalized like lab rats, and criminals who have serious rap sheets aren’t held to real crimes… Society needs a hard Reset !!!
Where sunglasses
Sabotage
My dad's been a truck driver his whole life, and his company put in the same thing. Almost all trucking companies today have it.
Usually things like this that happen in the UK eventually make their way to the US. I remember watching a show back in the 90's about how cameras were everywhere in the major cities of the UK and how they could track a person everywhere they go. It seemed like a completely foreign concept at the time. Look at us now, we've become used to cameras watching everything we do. If you're not aware of the cameras just look up, they're at every major intersection, all along every major highway, all over all the buildings of every city, and every person now has a handheld camera in their pocket and will pull it out and film you if you do anything out of the ordinary. It wasn't always like that.
Whenever automated law enforcement errs, the accused must prove their innocence. It's worse than creepy, it's mass searching with presumed guilt.
Not true as many States including my own have banned the tech for exactly this reasoning. That said we all lost on license plate readers and you can thank our State representatives for that L
@@j.ballsdeep420 return the L when voting no more lifetime polictians
Oh, 'fer sure... and surprised it also doesn't get more attention, but the ability to crosslink and tap into *_other_* databases (tax rolls, health records, employment, etc.... like China does right now), seems especially 'creepy'!
Read AI as "paints pictures where it imagines things". AI puts a picture where it kind of fits. It's the ultimate false positive generator to sidestep your rights. Everyone has no rights when the bell goes bing. The bell always goes bing.
So? Anyone who's important has heavily tinted windows, like copcars and limousines. Who cares if a few peasants get jammed up?
Like the drug sniffing dog that is made to sniff a location 13 times till it alerts. The previous 12 times are not mentioned in court.
Right on!
if the dog found drug, the ammount of times sniffing is irrelevant...
@@m.anejante1687 My dog Trigger finds drugs in 100% of drug cases we bring to trial. /s
The sad part is, too many people will give up rights and freedoms, in the name of "safety".
People who do that don't deserve rights or freedoms.
@@MrTruckerf The problem is that the rest of us suffer the same fate.
Case in post 9/11 USA, the last people with any privacy died in the towers.
"If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." -Average boot licker
Driving is a privilege and nobody is forcing you to do so
We the people need to get out ahead of this and demand lawmakers do something immediately to limit the use of AI. Big brother is right around the corner and if you let our leaders take one more step to being our “overlords” there will be no way to claw back our innocent rights to live in peaceful freedom.
Big brother is already here ^ has been for sometime, people just don't realize it because they've been introducing it a small piece at a time. As we get used to that piece and stop complaining , they slip in another piece.
@@pstoneking3418 true, and even scarier is our kids/grandkids just accept it as normal and welcome it all the way because it’s all “for their own good to keep them safe” which is how they’ve been groomed all their lives anyway. They think the world needs to be a big puffy nerfed, non-dangerous, padded room lined, big brother loves you so they don’t even want to go back to that big bad scary time when you had liberty and freedom to make your own mistakes. The thought crimes are just around the corner.
Thought crime is already here too
Computers can't be held responsible for their choices or actions. It's hard enough to hold human law enforcement accountable these days. Automating the law is scary.
YOU CAN SUE THE ONE WHO PROGRAMMES THEM MAY BE .
Agreed. It is the bureaucrats and system designers/salesmen that get into bed together, and look to scratch each other's back, by implementing a system that makes the designer company wealthy, and promises to fill the coffers of the municipality with money from fines, without having to staff up with LEO.
@@tonyking9235 You can sue the city, county and the company.
@@ExplorationRandomDestination OK THANKS . BUT AS ALWAYS IT COMES DOWN TO IF YOU HAVE MONEY TO TAKE THEM TO COURT. AND 9 OUT OF TEN WE DONT . 😣
@@tonyking9235 nah don't sue the one's creating new technology, sue the ones misusing it
The real problem with AI systems is that they can often see a pattern match where none exists. They can be trained to look for seat belt violations, but in the process of training the network might decide that all drivers with their sun visor deployed are also in violation. Or you could be in violation because your arm is across your seat belt. It can be surprisingly easy to get false positives and surprisingly hard to convince people that are using these systems that the AI is wrong.
I wear a black winter coat and the seat belts in my truck are black so how would a camera be able to make such distinction as to whether or not a seatbelt was in use. I have partial photophobia (inability for eyes to adjust quickly to light) so I use my Visor most of the time to adjust the light level. When I worked for the U.S. Postal Service (retired) our seatbelts were Orange, making it easier for a supervisor doing a drivers observation to tell whether or not seat belt was in use.
Everything is fallible; Had a drivers Observation done one day on parked mail truck. He was able to open door by jiggling handle even though I had made sure door was closed and locked. Mechanic the next morning backed me up saying the lock was defective.
The "go" issue is quite a thing, yeah.
By "Go issue", I am referring to an issue discovered with an AI designed to play the game Go. This AI quickly became incredibly good at the game, and even caused at least one master of the game to quit for good because he couldn't win... Then, at around the same time ChatGPT came out, some researchers found an issue with it.
Now, before I address the issue that was found, I should explain how the game "Go" works. There are black and white pieces (one side is black, the other white), on a square board consisting of square cells, with the two colors representing the two players. You need to protect groups of your color, while trying to capture groups of your opponents' pieces. I'm not going to bother going any more in-depth than that, since that's all you need to know to understand the issue.
The issue that was discovered was that the AI didn't understand that it needed to protect it's groups. It was able to trounce grandmasters, and was impossible for a human to defeat... _All without understanding one of the most fundamental rules of the game._
One of the researchers who discovered the issue learned to play, and was able to best the AI more often than not while using a strategy designed to exploit the AI's lack of actual understanding. The same techniques used to create that AI are used for basically every single AI in use today... And because people rely on the AI to teach _itself_ how to do it's job? Nobody can tell whether it actually understands what it's doing, or is just mimicking what worked before.
@@tygerion4404 Nothing there is really surprising, except that I never knew there were _Grandmasters_ in the game of _Go._
It's called having a confirmation bias.
@@TheRealScooterGuy I don't know if that was an official title; I was trying to get across that this guy was a pretty high-ranking Go player.
Steve, Knoxville, TN had red light cameras for years. Massive complaints from the citizens resulted in them all being removed. Basically the citizens told the local politicians that they would be unemployed if the cameras remained.😮
you think politicians are actually elected... that's cute.
The same thing happened in my city. I few years later, they're back. Some people hate them and have stolen them. Other people love them🤷
@@cigarsgunsanddiesel8032 You think the politicians don't have this warm mystery liquid... That's cute.
@@cigarsgunsanddiesel8032 They objectively are fedboi. Anytime anyone says this it glows brighter than Pripyat. The reason you guys say this is because it's harder to rig an election with high turnout.
The ability to unevenly dispense infractions against businesses makes this entirely unjust.
In New Jersey, we had red light cameras until there was a lawsuit and now they are all gone.
There was a story about a guy (can't remember where) who got dozens of tickets for running red lights. He was actually legally parked on the street in front of his house. Despite being told that the photos are reviewed before the tickets were sent out and his car being obviously sitting at the curb, he kept getting tickets.
Having driven into Michigan dozens of times over the last 6 months or so, i can honestly say that speed cameras in Michigan in construction zones mean speed cameras on every road.
Well, the potholes keep the speeds down to a reasonably insane level. We only do 85 in 70s because of them. And once you get into residential areas, it's 25 unless you drive a tank.
Some of us do.
How true! :P
DC hides all its Secret Police crap inside "construction zones" its a situational design of their own making. I would not be surprised if an unlocked armoury were stashed in said locations.
We need to make all of these enforcement and tracking cameras illegal at the federal level.
The brits just yank them down
But you're ok you've got your second amendment you're free. Right?! You know the things you never use. You're way past when you should have used them
Humans are cattle it's proven itself to be so.
No we don't. States rights, remember? 😂🖕
@@markc1234golf And those caught get prosecuted just like anywhere else.
Plate reading cameras in Maryland have already been used to run out-of-state tags and see if the registered owner has a weapon carry permit, and use that as an excuse (probably cause) to stop them and conduct a roadside weapons search.
Shall not be infringed is sure being infringed upon by the scofflaws
Damn, I would have thought that they would stop citizens who DIDN'T have carry permits (more docile)
That sounds very unconstitutional to me
@mikealvord55 - it is. As a 22-year veteran police officer myself I find it hard to believe that it's actually doing that and that officers are using it for probable cause.
Plus, no matter what state you're in we all have use the same NLETS ( national law enforcement telecommunications system) on our computers. Im in Oklahoma. If I run your out-of-state license I cannot see your weapons permit. Only Oklahoma in state issued permits. None of that is linked to any tags and a lot of people's tags don't even come back to a person they come back to a trust or some other entity.
So im calling BS on this guys claim.
Now... face recognition is out there. lapd's been experimenting with Google Glasses for quite some many years now that the officers can wear that will scan faces and check for warrants.
So that is coming.
Sounds like a massive lawsuit and violation of rights.
They want to charge us for every micro managing rule we break. That's ridiculous.
Red light cameras and speeding cameras are absolutely intrusive. Texas banned red light cameras on the grounds that they're a violation of Constitutional rights and I hope more states follow suit before they completely lose their freedom.
Yes it's your constitutional right to speed through and run as many red lights as you can. Your rights supercede the safety of others.
@@tonypegler9080 99.7% Democrat
@@tonypegler9080 you miss the point entirely. It's intrusive because there's no human interaction to prove anything. Just set cameras up everywhere bro, every infraction you'll get a ticket in the mail.
I know for a fact though that red light cameras are effective, and once the system is well-tuned, they almost never give a false positive. The problem is you guys aren't willing to give it a decent chance to prove itself. Imagine if you effed up just once at work and they fired you...
@@viewthoughmyeyes Pretty sure the Republicans in Texas were the first to pass the law ALOWING red light cameras😂 And I KNOW that England is run by conservatives lol
I thought it was about safety. What's next drones looking in your backyard and peaking in your windows.
It's never about safety. If it was they would enforce people staying out of the left lane for passing. It's only about control and revenue
It's all about money always has been always will be.
Yup.
Why yes, that sounds like a great idea.
You do own the airspace on your property so in theory you should be able to shoot down or disable trespassing drones
The short time cameras like this were used in my area, they found it cost more per ticket than it brought in. On top of that, people were much more likely to challenge it in court and the judges were getting sick of them. Even then they didn't outright ban them until a lawmaker got a speeding ticket that he claimed he shouldn't have gotten.
That hasn't worked well in Britain, you challenge it and they rejected it out of hand without looking at the evidence because "it's an automatic camera! they don't go wrong!" because there's been the mindset among the elected jobsworths that cameras are infallible and never wrong. It's been hitting the newspapers quite often the last few years with people insisting they get a hearing to challenge it. The cameras have been tagging people as "parked" when they were stuck in traffic at a light, and other things of the like, and when the victim of these cameras get nowhere, they turn to the newspaper.
@@impishrebel5969 That's one of the benefits of the US system, separation of judicial and executive branches. No executive can deny someone the right to a public hearing, even over something like a traffic ticket. Judges really hate it when the local police waste their time.
@@impishrebel5969 Thats when you sue for a massive amount.
same thing happen where I live in tenn.
Where I lived it wasn't even enforceable. The tickets weren't issued by the dmv, no points, no suspension if you didn't pay. It was a complete joke.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Why am I not surprised!
As I listened to this, I was reminded of concerns voiced by a Supreme Court justice (can't recall who), that driving codes in the US are so complicated that it seems impossible for anyone to drive without violating some law. Combine that level of legal complexity with a system capable of 24/7 monitoring of all traffic on a road or highway, and the potential is frightening. It seems that law enforcement could have their "probable cause" to pull over anyone.
Scary!!
They literally can pull over anyone and you need to prove you did nothing wrong not them prove you did do something wrong. Of course if you win you can sue but I mean qualified immunity is a real pain.
@@ExplorationRandomDestination This gives them a legal excuse.
The cops loved the "I smelled marijuana" excuse. Impossible to prove they did or didn't in court. They could use that excuse to pull anyone over, but usually young people and minorities.
It was someone v North Carolina. The cop can pull you over Bec they mistook the law, aka they thought what you did was illegal even though it’s not and anything found after the fact is allowed to be used in courts
Its Heien v a North Carolina
"Constructions zone only" sure like the ones in my state were "for schools only"
It’s actually just to test it for later expansion.
Slippery slope doesn’t exist! You’re a conspiracy theorist!
@@zeorhymer6 what?
"EHR, MEH GHERD! TINK UV DUH CHILRENS!!! IS YEW SOME KINDA MONSTER? DON'T YEW KARE ABOUT CHILRENS?"
Every time a politician says, "Think of the children!" You need to be opposed to whatever they are proposing. It's just a simply rule-for-life that will solve a lot of questions before you even have to spend any time thinking about it.
That's we should never compromise
Here in USA, we need a bill saying anything that adds a burden to court dockets without measurably improving safety must be eliminated.
If you subpoena the AI company, there's a good chance they will dismiss the ticket. Happened previously with Shotspotter and Stingray.
Tell more?, I would like more information on that.
Makes sense as if the public knew about the rate of false positives they would be an outrage.
Well imagine that lol.
Yeah, request source code for the firmware in the detection device or software used in the system. That source code is a trade secret and cops have no right to it. And the court isn't going to compel a company to give their competitors all their trade secrets in open court. If they DO get you the source code, though, if it is like most code, it wouldn't be terribly challenging for a skilled software engineer to describe enough failure scenarios in the software to establish whatever standard of doubt is needed.
Even better? Send them a nice letter in the mail with some An---ax. Or simply destroy by whatever means necessary, they're dumb enough to post an address of where they conduct their illegal activities. If it was us they would hold our families as accomplices and so should we theirs. No longer time to play, time to make the bad guys pay with the ultimate price.
In many parts of the US red light cameras were removed. They often provided false positives, up front cost was high, service was high, staffing was high, people actually went faster to get through the red light, it caused more accidents, and in the end they cost more than they generated and were just a headache for so many reasons.
True many days im at the end of the turning line and close to hitting the red light and have to ride on someones bumper (because they are driving too slow) but damn im not getting a ticket cause of the stupid person in front of me driving so leisurely slow. Its dangerous i know. It creates just as much danger of accidents as its trying to "prevent". And even so what is classified as a ticket offense? How much over the line? I really dont know..
@@aufache In my metro area you are not allowed to go past the limit line unless you can complete the left turn. I’m other words you can’t pull out into the intersection. In reality there is so much traffic officers don’t ticket you for being out in the intersection or completing the left after it turns red because cross traffic doesn’t stop until it’s yellow. Otherwise no one would ever complete a left. It’s so bad many intersections don’t even allow left during much of the day. You have to keep going forward to find an allowed left or make multiple rights.
There were more accidents because the city's realized if they shortens the yellow and green lights even by a second and a half a piece they would get a lot more Revenue. The key to combating this is for the state law to read that traffic lights must be synchronized for safety. There must be minimum amount of time for each specific light.
Guessing many towns are continually raising fines to cover the cost of keeping them. Imagine a $75 red-light or speeding ticket increasing to $750. There's really no reason why local govt couldn't abuse this way - they make the rules. (While the public repeatedly votes them into office to do it. Often unknowingly.)
not to mention the private companies that were profiting off the red light cams
What an excellent idea - you could also use these to keep people from traveling more than 15 minutes from home without permission.
UK is already installing cameras for that very purpose, to create and enforce digital boundaries of the 15 minute cities.
Walk, bicycle, public transportation. Driving is a privilege and nobody is forcing you to do so
Yes, Agenda 2030! They have been building the infrastructure for our future enslavement for years now. I have been trying to tell people this and I am considered the crazy person. They really sped it up during the plandemic. Especially during the two weeks we were supposed to sit inside cowering in fear.
@@daveassanowicz186 please stop representing the first three letters of your last name...
@@daveassanowicz186 How privileged does on have to be??? It’s NOT a privilege it’s a human right!.
It isn't about upholding law and order. It's about draining bank accounts. 💯 👍
Many municipalities in Arizona have gotten rid of speed cameras. Five years ago I got flashed by a camera that only monitored if my tags were up to date and if there were any warrants. I thought that was creepy, cameras looking into your car looking for crimes is way too Orwellian.
The flash alone is a violation of traffic laws that leads to distractions and could induce seizures. But it was never about safety apparently.
@@DudeSoWin Flash induced seizures due to your epilepsy? Sounds like a good reason to deny you a driver's licence before you kill someone. 😱🙄
You know it's a bad law when it's even too crooked for Arizona!
@@DudeSoWin It's ALWAYS about the money.
Yeah people were just going like 95 and then slamming on their brakes for the speed cameras. Accidents were caused IIRC. My favorite was the guy on a motorcycle going like 140 (something really fast), and the camera couldn't make out the plate, or the guy, he was just a blur.
But that's not the goal. The goal is to get people to pay the 25 dollar fine instead of 3 days of time and 400 dollars in court fees.
A local radio station out of NYC recently had a piece about one Long Island city or county that had to issue thousands of refunds and reverse the same amount of tickets because a speed camera in a school zone was improperly programmed. It took the hue-and-cry of many people to get the issue reviewed
I would bet that the "improper" programming was highly intentional.
"Your average mad scientist with a deathray must have been smoking these devices since the 70s." Beware the dark age of the butt dialing one-liner is upon us!
Seattle had to do the same thing because the tickets were issued by the company that owned the camera system and not by accredited law enforcement.
I was watching Code Blue Cam on here a few months ago. The episode began with the narrator saying the two officers spotted a lady with an active warrant as they were looking at the cameras that were covering a public park. They went and arrested her. This took place in Wisconsin.
Proof positive Big Brother really IS watching us!
Some states are better than others. Maine has always banned traffic cameras because you can't face your accuser if it's a computer program and camera vendor. plenty of other states have never allowed them (or failed to ever pass a vote to allow them)
@@austinh1028 Missouri banned them because they couldn't prove guilt.
@Souwth-bawston-is-fuh-luvahs they aren't traffic ticket cameras though.
Good. Get those with warrants taken care of.
@@KathyW5 Found Karen.
Even though we have search & seizure laws in the United States, that doesn't stop them from using all this equipment on us, and compiling the data, just as they monitor all our phone conversations and recording that in a huge database.
If this does happen in America you might be able to spin 4th amendment violation. The simple fact remains that if automated enforcement reaches the level where AI can find and log every violation than literally the entire population will be broke or in jail after being nickle and dimed to death over stupid fines.
Not the entire population. I'm sure certain people, like CEOs, Congress members, etc, will be able to buy their way off lists that the AI compares against to find violations.
Sure if you have millions to throw into the system
And of course, nothing to worry about for people that are _doing nothing wrong,_ in the first place. But I do agree that it's an illegal search.
Only your poor plebs will be nickle and dimed to death. The rich will not be charged or fined as a courtesy.
Most places here did away with the speed and red light cameras because court challenges made them uneconomical, and we have rights that put the constitutionality of them in question.
Waiting for high contrast abstract designs on cars. If it can't identify the windows, it can't tell what's inside them.
More so i suspect it won't be long that a technology race will erupt between aftermarket parts makers and legislation. First to market with an aftermarket glass that blocks milliwave and microwave radar along with distorting frame captures in the visible spectrum could become quite a rich fellow.
@@RiversJ Expect that window tint makers will develop a film that is a RF block to those radar systems, and just a barely legal optical tint film, for use on cars. Of course totally legal, sold for use on windows of houses, and for protecting the interior against sun damage only.
@@SeanBZA And starting to line the interior walls of the house with wifi blocking materials. I kind of want to insulate my house to make the whole thing a fairday cage.
No. I don't need people calling my cell phone. No. I don't even want a cell phone.
That happened to me. I was going about 30mph along a road that had a cop on a side street across the oncoming lane. He pulled out and stopped me because I didn't have my seatbelt on. I asked him how he saw that from that distance. "I just saw it." I wondered at the time whether he had some special equipment for looking into cars. My windows were tinted, not too dark, but he could not have seen that. So, yeah, we are being watched for everything these days. They had installed a lot of cameras in the major intersections in my county, but after a couple/three years they took them down. They were to snag red light runners by license plates. The public hated them, but I know they are still around, just not as much as they were. I read why they took them down, but I don't remember now. They weren't paying for themselves, I think, between the cost of the cameras, the maintenance and replacement, traffic court costs, etc. I wish, instead of them focusing on citizens, they would instead install the cameras along our border to catch those who are breaking our laws and will continue to do so. When we focus on not wearing a seat belt instead of not having permission to enter the country, you know we are on the wrong track.
CCP CHINA IS BEHIND all of this.
REVENUE GENERATION
Driving is a privilege and you are required to have your seat belt on
@@daveassanowicz186 according to the declaration of independence you have the right to pursue happiness, if you can't travel that affects your pursuit of happiness so no it is not a privilege - that is like saying breathing is a privilege. Too many control freaks...
@@daveassanowicz186 Is it tho?
I'm a truck driver, and I notice cameras in the middle of nowhere all over the country, and not just interstates. You are not traveling anonymously in this country anymore.
In the US our dauntless First Amendment auditors are rudely challenged by police for recording the interiors of police vehicles, but it’s okay to search the interiors of every passing vehicle.
Every accusation is an admission.
The laws of public photography aren't the problem.
It's the very stupid (low IQ) police not knowing the laws that are the problem.
They have names, they have home addresses. The solution. Is available.
@@AndrewBlacker-wr2ve They aren't police they are ZOG bots. They aren't people anymore.
Until someone can put something on the windows to reflect those cameras
Total and complete control! Next is gonna be facial recognition to see if any outstanding warrants exist or just to log your whereabouts at all times. Just imagine, driving with your face partially obscured to a camera an AI notifies the ‘authorities’ to pull you over and question you.
They're already testing Orwellian things in the UK like London. ULEZ is what they call it. Cameras with AI to keep tabs on you and your habits. And eventually they're going to "force" you to live within 15 minutes of your home(unless you're wealthy, and elite or politician that is)and fine you and then jail you if you leave your little area. Be damned freedom or say if you're a sportsman or likes camping or likes to visit friends and family that are further away for eg. And all under the guise of the environment. From the ppl who have much higher carbon footprints than the average person. And it's coming here to the US eventually and things just like it.
I have an acquaintance that drives with visor down even at night to obsure his identity from ALL forms of viewing, he calls it ridin' durty
Like in China and Israel. AI security systems of the state.
lead based rhino lining and dynomat
@@lisahall6869 riding dirty is driving with no license, insurance… It is Not driving with the visor down
That sounds really invasive. Does it constitute a search without consent? And the danger with Skynet isn't the computer, it's the people behind the computers who use them for these things.
It does. And any Jude that doesn't come to that conclusion. Needs to be disbarred. Then. Something else needs to happen to them. I'm not sure what. If only there were some really smart guy that could come up with some kind of lasting resolution or something....
Its invasive but your car is visible from public place, so it goes to governments 1st amendment rights to film in public and from the public area, even though its private area. Best response to that would be have these cameras banned, but if nothing else have laws changed so you can tint all your windows properly so camera cant see inside, though that would make cops job much harder and make them trigger happier.
@@Moe_Posting_Chad It should but I don't think it will, knowing how courts "operate". Police are presently allowed to look into vehicles, and court will likely use that logic, despite the fact that ordinarily such a search requires person to be detained. If the courts cared about rights like that, they wouldn't allow forfeiture w/o convictions.
@@TheMelnTeam (((operate)))
I am well aware. But we can be doomers. We fight with our words first. We fight with our attitudes second. And we don't talk about the fourth thing.
It's in the UK and they have no bill of rights but just wait..... Coming here soon I imagine.
Everyone needs a turret mounted paintball gun on their vehicle roof.
Drivers Ed instructor for over 20 years here. I was talking with students in one of my classes years ago. I told them about a GPS tracking black box I saw at a car show up in Detroit one year. Auto engineer told me you could install it and then your kid says that they want to go to the library. The kid gets home and parent goes out and downloads info as to where they actually were, how fast they drove, fast accelerations, hard braking and such. The students were quite upset about their loss of privacy! Then I said, imagine if speeding (and all other infractions) were stored and you were compelled to go down and drive past the police station ever month to have the info downloaded. Your bank account was connected and all tickets would automatically be withdrawn for payment! While that system is not set up it is possible! Now with Wi-Fi and such you would not even have to drive down to the station. Automatic withdraw from account as you break the laws! Halfway to Skynet! I think not. Even closer with consideration of a milage tax on electric cars because no gas taxes being collected. Tracking would have to be done by the vehicle and law breaking info could be passed on to law enforcement. We live in a world where all this can happen!
At least in the USA the MAIN priority of citizens at this point should be removing qualified immunity from politicians, judges, DAs, and to a lesser extent police. They do whatever they want because we literally have no way to hold them accountable for their actions.
The laws really started to change in 1981, with you- know- who, and the Bushes 1&2. Freedom eroded gradually,yet ever increasing over the years. Really took off after 9/11. The powered that be barely pretend anymore that this is a power grab to control the people, just like there is now, in " certain countries.". We need more town Halls to discuss this issue,plus related ones. And the " war on crime" is used to justify the surveillance state !
It reminds me of when Boston tried to introduce systems to look up info based on your license plates. They wanted to make it more efficient to identify vehicles that lacked current license tags or similar violations. The plates are in public, so they could capture images, and a human would be able to look up the info if they were doing that same job. But it moved us in the direction of excessive involvement or standard search of all public activity.
I also think of the false positives. I know someone who received a citation in the mail. Not only was he out of state at the time of the offense, but he circled the vehicle description and the photo of the offending vehicle when he refused to pay. It pulled info on the wrong plate. So the photo showed a black van, and the info that was pulled was for his white car. Yet, no one else noticed that the two didn't match. It was BLACK and WHITE! (and van vs car)
The other problem with those automatic ticket issues is that people can steal your plates (aka clone them) because the car model and color match, so YOU get all these tickets because of someone else running around with a stolen car and racking up tickets on your plates.
Big Brother strikes again🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
In major cities like Los Angels and Las Vegas they have license plate scanners that automatically scan plates as the cops drive and pop up an alert if a plate hasn't been registered or renewed.
@@Josh_D78 yeah, I saw them outside Boston / Providence.
To be honest, in many cases the problems these systems cause are not actually because of the system itself, but because of the way people have chosen to use it. For many situations, automated systems like this may be a legitimate and useful _tool_ for police officers to more efficiently do their jobs, but the problem is that far too often they are actually being used as a _replacement_ for police officers instead.
The problem isn't that machines/AI are being added into the equation, the real problem is just that humans are being _taken out_ of the equation when they shouldn't be (usually to save money). The flashy new technology is what everybody focuses on, but as a result the actual problem that everybody should be focusing on is largely ignored and unaddressed.
These kinds of cameras have been operating in the city of Moscow, Russia for over a year now. But the system still cannot pick out seatbelt use on dark clothing, and every violation picked up must be signed off by a human, a police employee.
The camera cases have been made bullet-proof for a reason, but the mounts aren't.
I was talking with a gentleman at the Minneapolis air port who was in town working on a contract adding facial recognition to all of the cameras in Minneapolis, he said they were about 1/3 of the way done. I believe the courts in MN have ruled that fines cannot be issued to the owner of a car based on the license plate, so we currently have no fines from cameras, I bet this will be challenged after this system is up and running.
Oh no! Time for me to move!
@T even if you move it's just going to follow you eventually. If you think another city isn't going to be using this you might want to think again.
I am in Minneapolis. I noticed a ton of new cameras that went up throughout the plandemic. I never sat inside scared for two weeks. Every city I drove through they were working on the cell towers as well. This is all part of the Agenda 2030 sustainable development goals.
Soon the cameras are going to have X-rays to scan interiors like the TSA.
That is why I wear lead clothing and an aluminum foil hat. 😀
For x-rays to work you need a transmitter on one side of the object and a receiver on the other side to pick up the image. We cannot make x-ray cameras mimic Superman's vision. There's also an exposure issue because we're unnecessarily exposing people to harmful radiation.
That's pretty much what he's suggesting is going on. Using AI and Radar to to basically identify potential illegal activities inside the vehicle.
Far too expensive and hazardous. Just wait a few years and they'll be making wifi imager software mandatory on all wifi devices (yes this is a thing already, it's possible to get a microwave real time feed of the surroundings of a wifi device, range about half that of useable wifi range so through walls etc)
They don't need X-rays. I saw a YT vid where they can use background WiFi signals to see through walls. And also seen someone use an infra-red laser to detect the vibrations in a window whichwas then translated into sound so they can hear what people are saying in the room behind the window.
Those creepy weirdos are everywhere! 😬 I see them peering into cars, both parked in lots and on the street every day!! Usually they have blue or khaki colored clothing and some kind of shiny stuff on their chests 😐.
😂😂
@@darrylbarker505 while I may call later, they won't show up in time to do squat!! Unless I give them a video with faces and a license plate, they won't even find the guys!!
@@darrylbarker505 they aren't going to do anything. The situation will be over by the time they get there! I need them to write a report and put me in jail overnight, because that's what they do!!
There's no situation that the cops can't make worse!!
@@darrylbarker505 you don't understand how long it takes cops to show up and how quickly crime can be committed by the time the cops get their the criminals are gone
@Darryl Barker if I try to defend myself and my property that's EXACTLY what they do! The situation has resolved itself in one way or another long before the police arrive!
You go ahead and retreat to your "safe room" and hope Sir!! Good Luck 🤞!!
there are very large scanners on routes into Manhattan, that scan the entire car and contents in great detail, and can identify guns and other items
Just a thought: How long until street cameras are used to surveil homes for "any kind of offence"?
Don't be silly. They only care about offenses of citizens there. Offenses by government officials picked up on those cameras will still be invisible.
they should just put cameras in our house, after all if we're not doing anything wrong we shouldn't have anything to hide.
In TN one guy had game wardens sneaking onto his property and putting up cameras. I believe that was after they released wolves into the area. I am not making this stuff up.
@@duanejackson6718 😆Yep, Coming soon to a town near you.
Something like this has been happening in Tennessee for years now. For example I forgot to renew my tags a couple different times in the past 5 years or so. When I would leave my house a cop would randomly end up behind me and pull me over giving me a ticket. They had to have already known and been alerted and track when I was going to leave my house.
More than likely it was a tag reader monitor that got you. They have them here in Jersey that let's police know everything about the vehicle and owner.
@@johndel1971able not in the small town I live in. We only have about 3,000 people.
@@bribri1657- 100% guarantee your local law enforcement has at least one vehicle equipped as it is now ubiquitous tech installed in most divisions with at least a single patrol vehicle. It's federal funding
@@johndel1971able - They are pretty much everywhere now thanks to federal funding and lobbying against the 4th amendment arguments there were and died out thanks to said lobbying
@@bribri1657 Maybe they stuck a GPS tracker on your vehicle that alerts them that your vehicle is on the road. Or they have a cop staked outside of your house.
Every government ever: "The fact you think you are allowed to have a thought we haven't approved is unacceptable."
Comrades, please, that is not Party approved Correct Speech and Allowed Thinking.
A few years ago in the UK, a man went to jail for flipping off speed cameras. More of the same.
Lawyers need to get smarter and challenge anything related to AI enforcing laws. If the Supreme Court has determined that AI generated art or other content cannot own a copyright then it cannot create a citation on behalf of a government.
And strongly suggest AI judges. Hearing that, judges may come to their senses realizing their own jobs are on the line and rule against unfettered use of AI. Come to think of it, AI judges might actually be better in many situations. Or maybe the government will require binding arbitration as a condition of having a driver's license, but I digress.
That’s not how this works in real life. The AI collects the evidence and forwards it to the technician who actually issues the citation…… loophole averted. It’s like in the 2014 remake of Robocop. The Dreyfus act prohibited deploying robots on the street…. So they deployed a robot with the illusion of free will and human emotion.
@@ronbennett7885 AI judges will likely outperform a large % of human judges within 5-10 years in terms of performance (whether it's legally allowed is another matter, I wonder which way judges will rule on that one lol).
Exactly!
This would be great if these cameras are placed around every police station and every government building .. yah know just to see what the data comes back with during the trial run.
Officer safety won't allow that...
@@jonathanjohnson8656 I can stand outside of a police station and film all the violations I want, whats different for a camera?
Something similar is already being used in FL. It uses facial recognition cameras located at all public facilities as well as traffic intersections. While sitting at a red light they can scan your license plate, your face, etc. Then run your info through their database.
EDIT: for more info, google: Pinellas County Sheriff's Office - RTCC (real time crime center)- F.A.C.E.S program
I'd personally never recommend anyone go out and shoot those cameras, but I certainly wouldn't convict anyone for it if I were on a jury.
Police aren't allowed to arbitrarily scan your license plate. Why are we letting 3rd party contractors do this?
@@ubuynow Not true. Police routinely scan plates in cities all over the country. Many municipalities have license plate readers on their police cars. They don't have to have a reason.
@@admthrawnuru oh there are other ways. An 18 volt grinder with a masonry blade will get you the camera and most of the mast in roughly ten seconds flat. It's a touch more up close and personal, I heard....
@My Homie, L.E. Munoz Police cruises have camaras that automatically scan licenses plates.
I totally agree! Most people don’t even see it coming!
This is concerning. People need to be afraid, very afraid. People will be guilty before they are found innocent.
@@Sab_MJsMamadude, they are committing genocide … no one ghastly anyone gives a flying f…. I’ve been mad… I’ve been working with a bunch of people demonstrating it’s useless unless we have a bloody war at this point… are you ready for that? and doing something, all in vain … getting mad isn’t going to stop it, it might get people to oppose it, but
@@Sab_MJsMama Afraid, no. Aggressive, yes. Monitor your legislators and if they are about to vote on something like this, tell all your friends and have them write to the legislators. Tell them that they will be voted out of office if they pass laws that allow this technology to be used in your state. I'm finding out as I get older that the fight for freedom didn't just end in 1776; it's an ongoing battle. Our legislators won't allow this to happen if too many loud voices oppose this. I know this is a lot of work, but it sounds like it's worth it.
That is already here bud.
Amazon is already doing something similar with their contracted delivery drivers. Any van delivering Amazon packages has to have an AI camera that watches the driver looking for "mistakes". Basically, it penalizes that driver with demerits if they're not paying attention or driving unsafely. The problem is, they are way too sensitive and will ding the driver if they - for example - look around to check their blind spot (not looking ahead). Or if another car gets too close and cuts them off (clearly you were getting too close to other cars).
Which is the real problem with this kind of thing: Amazon doesn't _care_ if you have actually done something dangerous. What Amazon cares about is feeding you a line of BS during your next, "performance review," so that they can justify a tiny (or non-existent) raise. This has been the management trick for a VERY long time. If they can get you to buy into the BS that you are not really a very good employee they can convince you that you don't really deserve a raise regardless of the fact that it actually means that you aren't even making as much (in real terms) as you did the year before. The cost of food (which they always leave out of the 'official' inflation numbers) is going up by something like 25% per year! The vast majority of the US population spends a huge portion of their income on food. Don't even ask about the costs of shelter...
@@driatrogenesis Same with over the road truckers…. AI dash cams make it endless hours of 110% perfect driving or you get flagged for taking your eyes off the road for that 3 second glance to check the clock on the radio.
Hmm, you've got a tough argument point there, considering how absolutely horrifying some Amazon drivers are
Amazon drivers regularly block intersections, there is signage do not block intersection oh, God forbid you want to make a right turn... you might be sitting there through several sequences of previous lights... the drivers are also pretty rude driving wise...LAXVESPA-LOSANGELES
As I said, @@rjlaxvespa1742, that's not because the _drivers_ want to cause trouble for everyone else. It's because that is what Amazon _demands_ of them. They don't care if their drivers get tickets. Amazon isn't paying the ticket and if the driver gets one they can simply be replaced with another wage-slave.
Out-sourcing the costs and retaining the benefits. That's the corporate ideal.The corporation doesn't care if you're inconvenienced (or killed, for that matter) as long as people keep handing over their money.
You can put a few high intensity infrared LED in the window and by the license plate it does not obscure anything from human eyes but will blind cameras showing only a white blob
You can fix it by adjusting the image brightness, though. The stuff behind the blob will still be visible after you fix it. I bet you could get an AI algorithm to do it automatically.
@@joewilson3393 no, put a strip all the way around pointed at the windshield. Same with the license plates, all the way around. Also, all the AI in the world won’t fix saturated detectors.
If they can still get around it, that’s when it’s time for active jamming. Use AI and an IR laser to target the cameras/detectors. You can also mount a magnetron from a microwave oven in the focal point of a parabolic dish, aim the dish at the equipment with or without AI and robotics, and have a ton of disruptive fun.
Good idea
Should be Installed in all public service offices around the world.
We need more if these cameras pointed at the government, monitoring everything that the politicians and government workers are doing.
I live in a very small town. A bit larger city is north of us and I read a month or so ago that they were thinking of adding cameras here along the highway that passes through our town to try to identify a person or persons being sought after by id'ing their car, plate and face. Like any worthy device that really has merit, in time it will be used for other things that violate our rights. I am 68 so as I see this world " going to hell in a hand basket" as they say, I am glad I won't be around too awful long to see the extra crazy stuff our government does or people in general.... Thinks back to the Toliet Paper crisis when covid hit. 🤪
I live in NJ and we used to have traffic cameras at intersections. They increased accident rates massively because people would slam on their brakes to avoid tickets. Also I think the companies doing it were ticketing too early on yellows to make extra money. They're illegal statewide now but they kept the cameras up to use them for smart lights at the intersections.
In some municipalities, like Decatur Alabama, it is against the law to "run a yellow light". I know, I was found guilty in court.
'bama, what a surprise?
That is what they tell you the cameras are for. Check out "parallel construction".
@@wilfredvanvalkenburgh2874 so wtf is the yellow light for if it's treated as a red?
I'd appeal that shit as it has to be the most braindead ruling I've ever heard of.
@@tetedur377 My lawyer said an appeal might cost $35,000. I asked what would happen then. He replied "they will just pass another unconstitutional law". It's basically our money fighting our money in "their" court.
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
-C. S. Lewis
This is already widespread here in Australia. Governments have realised how lucrative these cameras are and are expanding rapidly. Various states did 3-6 month trials over the past few years - only warnings, no fines - and they caught tens of thousands of people (I believe on a single camera in my state). So, of course they approved them, and now we have automatic speed cameras, seat belt detection, mobile phone use detection, parking infringements (has been the case for over a decade but also expanding/becoming fully automatic), unregistered vehicle detection, distracted driving (eating, hands off steering wheel, etc), etc. You don’t even need to be using the phone in my state; you can get a $1000+ fine just for having a phone sitting on you, like in your lap. One woman even got fined because she had her phone in her bra.
It’s learning every day; who knows what offences will be next.
Edit: Oh, and point to point speed cameras are becoming much more common.
@Person Personperson How so?
You gave up your guns because the State said "its scary, think of the children."
You deserve it. You deserve every abuse the State gives you. Australians are even worse than the English in the despotism they enabled their State to embody.
Having lived in Australia for a few years in the early 70's and after decades visiting again last year I was shocked at the "police state" it has become and how docile and whipped so many of its citizens have become. By the end of my trip I must say I have no desire to go there again.
When does "seat-belt detection" override newer safety standards. There are mobile phone glasses now, will we see more handicap people denied their rights like the gun brace arguments with ATF. Last I checked a legal driver could have one arm or while wearing a cast. Are we to be medically experimented on every time a back pain flares up or will they stick to grooming the children? A disaster a couple generations down the line is a great place for a congress intern to hide mistakes.
And i suppose you all still elect the people ultimately (besides yourselves) responsible for all that.
Not sure about other states, but in the state of Tennessee, if your windows are tinted and you have a 4-inch strip across the very top of the front of your windshield, the police or anyone else is not allowed to use that evidence against you in a court of law. You're not even allowed to use that information to go get a search warrant.
This is already been fought over in the state of Tennessee and that was the final ruling.
But you could be fined for the windows if they're tinted enough.
I was a stop light a few weeks ago, checking my phone while I was stopped. Guy in car next to me kept glaring at me. I met his eyes, nodded at him, but he kept staring, had a smirk on his face too. Light turned green, I put my phone down and the other guys lane started moving first. It was only then I realized he was LAPD. He was so perfectly parallel to me I couldnt see the sirens, city emblem, or even uniform from where I was seating. I thanked him for his discretion, he gave me a thumbs up, we went are sperate ways. Not all are A holes.
Not all but far too many with the code of brothers in arms often unwilling to self-correct each other's behavior. While there are certainly good cops, we need accountability and correction to reduce it to rare occasion their power is used abusively and in such rare occasions are met with swift and harsh penalties to deter similar actions as today we still have a big problem
I remember a story I read when the traffic cams first started sending people speeding tickets in the mail. A guy received a traffic ticket for speeding in the mail with a picture of his car licence plate and the amount of the fine he was to pay. So the guy sends the court a picture of the money. The judge not amused sent him back a picture of a warrant.. that was the end of the article I am pretty sure how it ended . Pretty funny stuff though.
"[a stranger looking into my car] might have been looking for something to steal"
So EXACTLY like the government. Right.
reminds me of a bumper sticker I once saw, 'don't steal, the government doesn't like competition!
Where I used to live they passed the seatbelt law by telling everybody that it would be a secondary offence if you were stopped for something else and did not have your seatbelt on. After it was passed it didn't take very long before they started setting up seatbelt check points where they would stop everybody, just to check if they had their seatbelts on.
You are right, people can pull a baby or toddler behind them on a BIKE IN TRAFFIC, YOU CAN RIDE A MOTORCYCLE WITHOUT A HELMET YET YOU HAVE TO WRRE A SEATBELT .I ALWAYS DO FOR SAFETY REASONS BUT THAT SHOLD BE OUR CHOICE. IT GIVES POLICE ANOTHER EXCUSE TO PULL US OVER AND THAT SHOULDENT HAPPEN.
@@markthomas9703 Back in1963 we were moving out west and traveling on I-40 between Albuquerque and Gallop, NM. We were in a van loaded pretty good, we blew a tire, my mother was driving and the van rolled, when it stopped rolling the doors came open and I stepped out and my mother almost made it out, before the whole load came crashing through the seat and into the windshield, she was trapped by the load, there was a trooper right behind us, he said we were only doing 45mph and he also told us if we had been fasten in with the seatbelts, we would have both died right there right then, in 1963, and I would not have been around for this last 60 years. Yes I use my seat belts now and I still ride my Goldwing motorcycle ,with a helmet on. But if they would have had the mandatory seatbelt law back then, well I would not have graduated from high school, been drafted into the Army, sent to Vietnam , got my commercial helicopter license, or any of the other things I have seen in the last 60 years. Now I am 76 years old and going strong, well pretty much anyways. LOL Getting ready to go cut firewood this morning, got to keep moving. Have a great day and stay safe.
@@markthomas9703 I feel the same. Seat belts should be a personal preference. I doubt very much if I decided not to wear my seat belt that it would endanger anyone else.
I want to see how many people who are against this were fine with the NSA spying on private citizens, saying idiotic things like "if youre not breaking the law, you have nothing to hide."
....and if I have nothing to hide, there is no reason 'you' need to make inquiries about/to me.
Great point! Answer: Too many!
I work as a software engineer in a tech space that utilizes 3d object image recognition on a daily basis for our core services. Now for us we have a static fixed 3d space and we just have to track people and objects. You would not believe how often it is these systems make a mistake. "That balloon must be a person" for example. Now a camera with a single plane of perspective, or even multiple planes along the same hyperplane, it is still dealing with a car going very fast. It can take computers multiple seconds per frame to process and classify each frame. I can tell you if anything will limit skynet: it's cost. As the processing power needed with today's computers is quite high.
Those cameras sound like "guilty until proven innocent"
Usa has already been guilty until proven inoccent.... a cop can lie about you speeding... no radar, no camera... but the judge 100% will take the cops word and you lose... they didn't prove guilt but you still got a ticket.
Not always the case, ive witnessed the opposite.
That is h9w the justice system works anyway. The burden is always on proving your innocence.
@@jabrockobiden9434 then why do you sit in jail for long lengths of time as an innocent person. You can literally be locked up for months and be innocent until you get to trial and then hope you are rich enough for a good lawyer. If not then it’s an automatic conviction for the prosecutor to get a notch to further his career.
I'm in SW Ohio, my township has begun installing solared powered cameras at multiple intersections all over the township.
People think movies are just that, watch Enemy of the State with Will Smith....they are telling you what they can do. The Patriot Act was supposed to protect us, I actually took away some of the laws that protected us.
The only times I've had a hot ash fall of off my cigarette was after my state required them to have the "fire safe" paper on them. I've since burned holes in my car seats and clothing. When the government gets involved in things they know nothing about, it never turns out well. JMO.
I've seen a camper with a one-way front window. You can't even tell it is a window from outside, but from the inside you have a perfectly clear view. We need to take our privacy back by developing windows for our vehicles that we can see out and nobody can see in. As long as the occupants of the vehicle can see the road unobstructed, nobody should have a right to see into the vehicle including law enforcement.
We have these in Australia Steve, promoted by the governments as mobile phone cameras. Recently reported in the media was a charge against a male driver where his female passenger was performing an intimate act on him while he was driving. The charge, I recall, was serious in that it involved some form of dangerous driving. Totally unrelated, of course, to any mobile phone use.
You have the scientists who created them in New Zealand bunkers. Take your complaints upstream to the source of all this western legal drama. Do not buy from New Zealand, it allows them to launder money for that inhumane research. Remember the Australian rat plague, all their doing with gene splicing "golden rice" and coconut leaves in the desert. And for fucks sake man get on a public domain computer system.
I live in Sydney and I know that they have the mobile phone cameras. I have seen articles that the ones in Brisbane also check if you are wearing your seatbelt correctly
@@amandamandamands Same in Danistan, they go operational in2 months.
There is also the recent issue with them being able to look up short skirts
We have a right to face our accuser(s) and be tried by our peers. They won’t bring in the AI to answer questions. They will only present the results. And any AI is not and never will be our peer.
There are other places you don’t have the right. When cps claims are made against you is one. And that system is so abused and tragic
Our country is on a downward spiral
It will never be our peer, but it may become our master.
How does a speeding ticket work. You can not ask the cops speedometer questions. The cop, if they are telling the truth, can not tell how fast you are doing with any accuracy.
Yeah, that’s not how this will work. They put 10 or 15 people in an office building somewhere in London, and they’ll be reviewing everything that gets flagged and sent to them by the AI. They’ll reject the ones that aren’t clear-cut and except all of the ones where you’ve got the phone to your ear or you’re not wearing your seatbelt and they’ll issue the citations on their recognizance, not the machine. They are your accuser, not the AI that gather the information for them.
@@johnclements6614 not true, they can tell you exactly what the accuracy of that speed gun is… per its last calibration.
The biggest problem with this is there's enough laws on the books to make anything a crime. And anyone can read between the lines on that. You know what that means
This goes on at a lot of weigh stations. They know everything before and during driving across the scales.
What's fun is certain areas in England instead of the camera using radar, it just records when you pass it, then when you pass another, it does the same and determines how fast you had to be going to cover that distance.
that's "Average Speed Camera" usually used on roadworks to 'assist' in limiting speed for construction worker safety to 50 MPH. sadly due to speedo inaccuracy most people are doing barely 45 and they get antsy when you in an HGV using GPS for a more accurate speed reading, pass them to meet your obligations to your employer and make the best of the very complicated 'Drivers Hours' and 'Working Time Directive'!
Oklahoma tollways used to determine your average speed by using time stamps on the toll tickets.
I've long believed that tickets issued from camera evidence alone should be illegal, since they eliminate the 'enforcement' from the "violation, enforcement, penalty" chain.
That logic doesn’t track. They can issue you a warning just as easily as a citation … your argument won’t pass cursory scrutiny. AI just means they filter first time offenders and warn them and cite the rest. My cell phone takes 5 second bursts and pics the best exposure…. But it saves the videos too. Same with modern traffic cams.
What do you think of citizens collecting dash cam footage of you rolling through a Stop sign, handing it to the police and you end up with a ticket?
@@Matt-yg8ub It's true that photos by themselves are unlikely to be capable of proving most traffic violations though. You probably need video footage for that at minimum. Driving through a yellow light that turns red when you're in the intersection is not a violation. Camera can take a picture of red light + car in intersection...burden of proof shouldn't be on the driver there. Same for right turn claims. Could easily do fake speeding tickets too, though so could police.
Video footage might be preferable to police interaction, though I suspect it will be handled in a way that sucks by gov't, like "that's literally not the vehicle you claim" taking undue work to sort out type of bullcrap. But at least the camera won't drag you out of the car, beat the crap out of you, then still search it anyway, quite possibly doing more than looking into it. Or use fake dog alerts to bypass rights.
@@TheMelnTeam I deal with this stuff every day…. It’s what I do for a living. I design and create integrated inspection and remote data collection systems for local my government. Just because they mail you a still image, doesn’t mean they don’t have the video …. Or the radar telemetry in some cases. We even tested out a static LIDAR setup in a high volume intersection to give exact measurements of crash data. Not only can I tell if you made a right turn against the light, I can tell how fast you were traveling as you approached the intersection, if you tailgated the vehicle in front of you and wether or not you cut a vehicle on the cross street off when you turned.
The amount of data modern systems can collect is limited only by the amount of storage the city is willing to pay for.
My point is, that with a camera, there isn't an "enforcement" phase of the violator being stopped, admonished by law enforcement, and issued a summons (or a warning). Being pulled over at the time of violation is a much better preventative against repeating the offense than receiving a ticket in the mail a few weeks later. If it's a red light camera, how many chances are there to repeat the behavior and possibly causing an accident before the magic ticket arrives?
And there are people who are perfectly fine with this level of Big brother
For a safe and secure society of course
Remember that old Rush song?
My uncle has a country place, that no-one knows about
He says it used to be a farm, before the Motor Law
Sundays I elude the ‘Eyes’, and hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire, where my white-haired uncle waits
Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty-odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream
I strip away the old debris, that hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta, from a better, vanished time
Fire up the willing engine, responding with a roar!
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime…
Wind in my hair -
Shifting and drifting -
Mechanical music
Adrenalin surge -
Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware
Suddenly ahead of me, across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air-car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires, to run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley as another joins the chase
Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud
With fear and hope, I’ve got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded
At the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle
At the fireside…
Here in Texas, They used to have red light cameras, and they removed all of them a few years ago. Plus, if they install those cameras, we'll just use them as target practice.
Nobody was paying them. That's why they got rid of them.
Wow have things changed. Steve, your comment about smoking reminded me of a situation from my youth. I'm about your age and when I was in my late teens a buddy of mine had a minor accident. He was rolling up to a red light and hit the car in front of him because he was checking out a hot girl a couple cars over. Very minor damage, just two dented bumpers. When he was explaining it to his insurance adjuster he didn't want to say that he was checking out the girl so he told them he dropped a cigarette in his lap. The adjuster said "Don't worry about it. Happens all the time". Wouldn't be surprised if these cameras get programmed to ticket distracted driving if they catch someone sneezing.
Or eating while driving. Or adjusting the radio, or looking for something in the car, or any one of a million things not directly driving related.
Remember, their guy shows up for court the same day, every week. He's going to be there even if nobody shows up to contest the ticket. You, on the other hand, have to take the day off of work to contest it. You'll lose $150 to fight a $60 fine.
@@jdlech So? Principals are worth fighting. Your defeatist FED POSTING has no power here. You wish people would stop showing to contest their fines, you wish they would stop being angry. You pray the day doesn't come, and it will come, that the people finally decide...
What might that decision be? Why would a Fed pray to a God he scorned? Who knows? : ^ )
@@jdlech Or, like one sees in movies and television, the driver turning to look at the passenger for 10-20 seconds at a time while speaking to them.
Or blinking. Makes me want to get on outta this place
@@Moe_Posting_Chad Probably better to fight those principles on legislative side rather than hoping enough people lose time and money on principle. At least, if the objective is to prevent government from preying on people. Judicial accountability is something I'd love to start seeing in campaigns too.
Stopping texting ,drunk driving,stolen cars,speeding through red lights sounds good to me.
Ever since I received a bill for toll on a highway, along with a picture of my vehicle I've been skeptical about all this. My car is a Subaru; the picture was of the back end of a tractor trailer.
IMO, in the US, cameras are NOT verified with human review. I would refer to the numerous tickets issued to funeral processions for 'running a red' though allowed by police escort. And of course, not all vehicles have seatbelts. Some have lap belts, and IIRC shoulder straps were required after 1977
Yep, Seat belts were required starting in 1968 model year.
@@dsloop3907 the model year should show up and the seat belt requirement determined automatically when reading the plate.
Having a human review the actions of the computer would be expensive, and would slow down the collection of money.
It reads the plate it knows make and model
@@LeifNelandDk Why bother, the number who query will be low, and there will be enough people who just pay, rather than bother to contest, to make it worthwhile.
By me they are trying to make it that the courts do not have to contest tickets, but the agency who issued them is the appeal agency. That one is on appeal before even starting, as the people are saying that they have no right to appeal. as you have to first pay, then pay again to get a hearing, where they will affirm the ticket again and make you pay again. Part of it was that simply emailing you a ticket was classed as serving you.
8:08 "But Officer. We're not bothering you with our video recording of you doing that. Are you doing anything illegal?"