A great cheat for getting off a dock against the wind in a twin-engined boat with propellers in front of rudders - another film is being made for stern drive twins.
Excellent! Just excellent. This is exactly the explanation I have been searching for. Your use of animation graphics is perfectly simple and visually explanatory.
I was just on a boat where we did something like this many times. ('something like' because of course the details were likely different. And I wasn't at the helm). What always needed to happen, was a roving fender or two needed to be port aft because (for us) the cat pivoted pushing that aft port corner into the dock. I think the first time we tried this, the operator expected what happens in your video. Instead I wasn't able to get aft fast enough and stick in a fender. I was where I was told to be - midships??? After that I was just always at that corner, unless someone else was there. So even if this doesn't work as well as in the video, when you make this maneuver (rudders or no), so long as you have a fender aft and can hold it there -- everything goes well. There was always a lot of force back there. Tip: when someone yells there's a problem - just stop.
This. video is similar with the the one Sideways in a Lagoon. Except that on this you instruct that the rudders are turned towards the dock and on the other one the rudders are turned away from the dock. So which one is correct?
Both are - the reason for the video for Laggoons is that they have an unusual configuration, with the propellers aft of the rudder, so prop-wash is dominant on the engine in reverse.
The logic is right, but in real life you could call it windless day. As anything close to 5-7kts and up is impossible to do anything with such technology on usual cats with usual power of engines. In terms to avoid crashes it is better to teach newbies the fact that cats are not moving sidewise. Also the wind is gusty in ports usually and any gust can cause the problem. So summary is that such technology is bull. If you want to be sure and you want to be sure abt the result of your maneuver you just use conventional technologies that put you clear and strongly into the position you expect, always able to over fight expected gusts.
I am not sure why you assert that in anything above 5-7 knots this use of basic physics and maths doesn’t work. I have used it to get cats off against quite strong winds - in practice, not in theory… for example, I took a Leopard 44 into Fethiye to get water, with a 12 kt wind blowing straight onto the dock. The technique explained in this video was used to ensure a gentle arrival against the pontoon, and then, with a vessel directly in front and behind, we used this technique to move sideways out of the berth. It works, but the reason training schools don’t teach it is that they teach the syllabus required for ICCs, or national competence qualifications. Nothing wrong with that, they are meeting the needs of the customers, but that does not imply that knowledge ends there! I have been boating since 1979, and the day I think there is nothing to learn is the day I stop boating, because I will believe I have become dangerous.
Good explanation, but I have two questions at once 1. what is the balance of forces when reversing, is it possible to move sideways? 2. I don’t have rudders, my propellers turn, i.e. whole leg I would like to see the balance of power in these matters. If you already have similar videos, I would be grateful for the link
As to the first, not exactly, but you can move backwards and sideways a reasonable amount, depending on the boat… ruclips.net/video/CUqaCvXLqws/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Hi, can I do what you've done in the video-,BUT instead of putting your port engine in ahead propulsion and your starboard in astern propulsion, can I put the port engine in astern and the starboard engine in ahead propulsion? Cheers.
Hi, The engine in ahead is always determined by the direction of the forces you are trying to overcome… the method works in order to move the boat left or right, by simply swapping which engine is in ahead and reverse.
Hello - sorry your message got missed. Absolutely - it will work just fine... you lose a small amount of lateral force from the engine in forward with the saildrive a long way from the rudder, but you also lose it from the one in reverse. It will work fine.
A great question - I guess you have a Lagoon? This can be less successful, but will work to some extent. You need to steer fully AWAY from the dock, and do everything else the same as in the video… put the engine near the dock in forward idle etc… The effectiveness depends on the distance from the prop to the rudder.
This did not work at all for my boat. 36 foot Tiara twin inboards. This maneuver only gave me forward momentum while smacking my swim platform into the dock. There was zero sideways momentum and adding power only made it worse.
Sorry to hear that your boat isn’t handling as expected. I have been unable to find any photos of the underside of a Tiara 36, but a couple of thoughts come to mind… How big are the rudders, and are they reasonably close to the propellors, so that they get some prop-wash? How much do the rudders turn on full lock? Were you applying power using the RPMs to match forward and reverse? If so, this would probably give the result you describe, because the propellors are nowhere near as efficient in reverse as ahead. Matching power is done by observing boat movement, and increasing RPM on the engine in reverse as necessary to stop forward movement. The fact that your swim platform hit the dock leads to a possible misunderstanding - are you certain you applied full helm TOWARDS the dock rather than away from it? The natural thought is that to leave the dock we steer away from it, so turning the helm toward the dock might seem completely wrong, but is what is required. It is possible that your boat won’t do this at all, but with the powerful engines you have relative to boat size this would be surprising. One way to check is to find a clear area with a fixed reference mark such as a buoy, then with the mark just to your port side and the boat into wind apply full port helm, and put the port engine into forward gear and apply some power. The stern of the boat should move to starboard, as well as the bow moving to starboard more. If the starboard stern movement is insignificant then either because of rudder size, position, or maximum deflection limitation the cheat won’t work for your boat. If it does move to starboard then the only other variable is the wind - maybe the breeze blowing you onto the dock was too strong to overcome with this cheat alone.
@@theboatcheat1204 The boat is a 2006 Tiarra Sovran 3600. These are very big 36' boats. With pulpet and 4 foot swim platforms its overall 42.5'. My position and wind condition was almost exact to your demonstration. I did have wheel turned all the way to dock. Port in forward and starboard engine reverse. Applied as close to equal thrust to both engines as i could. The boat did not move with any sideways momentum at all.
Try this on a calm day with lots of fenders out. Turn wheel to the dock and place the dockside engine in forward momentarily and observe result. Should be moving forward stern moving away from the dock. Next put the other engine in reverse to stop the boat and impart backward motion. Neutral. Repeat. This might help you isolate the effects of each engine at work. Good luck.
Hi, They are both right - the two videos are needed because the Lagoon, and a few other catamarans, have the rudder IN FRONT of the propeller, and this changes the technique needed.
Brilliant! Making a boat go sideways without thrusters!
Excellent! Just excellent. This is exactly the explanation I have been searching for. Your use of animation graphics is perfectly simple and visually explanatory.
Glad it was helpful!
I was just on a boat where we did something like this many times. ('something like' because of course the details were likely different. And I wasn't at the helm). What always needed to happen, was a roving fender or two needed to be port aft because (for us) the cat pivoted pushing that aft port corner into the dock.
I think the first time we tried this, the operator expected what happens in your video. Instead I wasn't able to get aft fast enough and stick in a fender. I was where I was told to be - midships??? After that I was just always at that corner, unless someone else was there.
So even if this doesn't work as well as in the video, when you make this maneuver (rudders or no), so long as you have a fender aft and can hold it there -- everything goes well. There was always a lot of force back there.
Tip: when someone yells there's a problem - just stop.
Great videos, going to start using rudder position much more now. Keep them up
Amazing! Thanks!
Glad you found it helpful!
Thank you for this good tip.
This. video is similar with the the one Sideways in a Lagoon. Except that on this you instruct that the rudders are turned towards the dock and on the other one the rudders are turned away from the dock. So which one is correct?
Both are - the reason for the video for Laggoons is that they have an unusual configuration, with the propellers aft of the rudder, so prop-wash is dominant on the engine in reverse.
Una pregunta.. con los timones por delsnte de la helice cual seria la recomendación..?? Con el timón a la vía?
The logic is right, but in real life you could call it windless day. As anything close to 5-7kts and up is impossible to do anything with such technology on usual cats with usual power of engines. In terms to avoid crashes it is better to teach newbies the fact that cats are not moving sidewise.
Also the wind is gusty in ports usually and any gust can cause the problem. So summary is that such technology is bull. If you want to be sure and you want to be sure abt the result of your maneuver you just use conventional technologies that put you clear and strongly into the position you expect, always able to over fight expected gusts.
I am not sure why you assert that in anything above 5-7 knots this use of basic physics and maths doesn’t work. I have used it to get cats off against quite strong winds - in practice, not in theory… for example, I took a Leopard 44 into Fethiye to get water, with a 12 kt wind blowing straight onto the dock. The technique explained in this video was used to ensure a gentle arrival against the pontoon, and then, with a vessel directly in front and behind, we used this technique to move sideways out of the berth. It works, but the reason training schools don’t teach it is that they teach the syllabus required for ICCs, or national competence qualifications. Nothing wrong with that, they are meeting the needs of the customers, but that does not imply that knowledge ends there! I have been boating since 1979, and the day I think there is nothing to learn is the day I stop boating, because I will believe I have become dangerous.
Good explanation, but I have two questions at once
1. what is the balance of forces when reversing, is it possible to move sideways?
2. I don’t have rudders, my propellers turn, i.e. whole leg
I would like to see the balance of power in these matters. If you already have similar videos, I would be grateful for the link
To answer your second question… ruclips.net/video/-d4RWfuv0bI/видео.htmlfeature=shared
As to the first, not exactly, but you can move backwards and sideways a reasonable amount, depending on the boat… ruclips.net/video/CUqaCvXLqws/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Hi, can I do what you've done in the video-,BUT instead of putting your port engine in ahead propulsion and your starboard in astern propulsion, can I put the port engine in astern and the starboard engine in ahead propulsion? Cheers.
Hi, The engine in ahead is always determined by the direction of the forces you are trying to overcome… the method works in order to move the boat left or right, by simply swapping which engine is in ahead and reverse.
@@theboatcheat1204 so very true your answer, i thought I'd just ask anyway.
Very clear but a question - my saildrives are about1.5m in front of the rudders so will this still work?
Hello - sorry your message got missed. Absolutely - it will work just fine... you lose a small amount of lateral force from the engine in forward with the saildrive a long way from the rudder, but you also lose it from the one in reverse. It will work fine.
Did you ever make the Twin Stern video?
Indeed I did…. ruclips.net/video/-d4RWfuv0bI/видео.htmlfeature=shared
Wow
How would this work when the props are behind the rudders?
A great question - I guess you have a Lagoon? This can be less successful, but will work to some extent. You need to steer fully AWAY from the dock, and do everything else the same as in the video… put the engine near the dock in forward idle etc… The effectiveness depends on the distance from the prop to the rudder.
64brooksie, I have added a video to answer your great question - it is in the Boat Handling playlist and is called 'Sideways in a Lagoon'
dümeni de aynı anda çeviriyorsun
This did not work at all for my boat. 36 foot Tiara twin inboards. This maneuver only gave me forward momentum while smacking my swim platform into the dock. There was zero sideways momentum and adding power only made it worse.
Sorry to hear that your boat isn’t handling as expected. I have been unable to find any photos of the underside of a Tiara 36, but a couple of thoughts come to mind… How big are the rudders, and are they reasonably close to the propellors, so that they get some prop-wash? How much do the rudders turn on full lock? Were you applying power using the RPMs to match forward and reverse? If so, this would probably give the result you describe, because the propellors are nowhere near as efficient in reverse as ahead. Matching power is done by observing boat movement, and increasing RPM on the engine in reverse as necessary to stop forward movement. The fact that your swim platform hit the dock leads to a possible misunderstanding - are you certain you applied full helm TOWARDS the dock rather than away from it? The natural thought is that to leave the dock we steer away from it, so turning the helm toward the dock might seem completely wrong, but is what is required. It is possible that your boat won’t do this at all, but with the powerful engines you have relative to boat size this would be surprising. One way to check is to find a clear area with a fixed reference mark such as a buoy, then with the mark just to your port side and the boat into wind apply full port helm, and put the port engine into forward gear and apply some power. The stern of the boat should move to starboard, as well as the bow moving to starboard more. If the starboard stern movement is insignificant then either because of rudder size, position, or maximum deflection limitation the cheat won’t work for your boat. If it does move to starboard then the only other variable is the wind - maybe the breeze blowing you onto the dock was too strong to overcome with this cheat alone.
@@theboatcheat1204 The boat is a 2006 Tiarra Sovran 3600. These are very big 36' boats. With pulpet and 4 foot swim platforms its overall 42.5'. My position and wind condition was almost exact to your demonstration. I did have wheel turned all the way to dock. Port in forward and starboard engine reverse. Applied as close to equal thrust to both engines as i could. The boat did not move with any sideways momentum at all.
I don’t know the boat at all but presumably it has twin rudders?
Try this on a calm day with lots of fenders out. Turn wheel to the dock and place the dockside engine in forward momentarily and observe result. Should be moving forward stern moving away from the dock. Next put the other engine in reverse to stop the boat and impart backward motion. Neutral. Repeat. This might help you isolate the effects of each engine at work. Good luck.
Does it have rudders or just a z drive?
Two videos, one is an opposite to another. What is right? ruclips.net/video/5OMAuIHdHKc/видео.htmlsi=8miFS4IowRkuNzHX
Hi, They are both right - the two videos are needed because the Lagoon, and a few other catamarans, have the rudder IN FRONT of the propeller, and this changes the technique needed.