Why CATCH CANS VOID WARRANTY 🤷♂️🤔 let’s explain the basics first
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- It’s not my car you do whatever you choose. I’m just trying to explain so you can understand and make a correct decision. I don’t use any catch cans never have I do not need them and this is why.
Good effort Anthony on the never ending story on "Catch Cans" with many myths and opinions so here is an attempt to clear up the facts.
Lets look at how a well designed "Catch Can" works in detail to determine if its useage could in any way void Warranty. (Warranty is generally against defective parts or workmanship in the product NOT covering failures caused by aftermarket devices)
Starting with soot- soot when produced in the combustion space is DRY. Despite modern diesel Common Rail Designs and a host of other combustion efficiencies, minute amounts of soot are still present in the combustion space. EGR then passes a percentage of this dry soot to the intake manifold.
Next blowby gases from crankcase are ventilated (recirculated) to the intake manifold so that crankcase pressure does not build up.
These fumes always carry over some oil or oily vapour. OEM crankcase ventilation systems attempt to remove the oil from the crankcase gas flow, but are never 100% efficient.
Now combine DRY soot with oily vapour and you have the core of the problem. Carbonaceous deposits coat the intake ducts, intercooler core and lines etc. Over time the deposits build up and are thermally degraded and cling tenaciously to the intake system surfaces. Oily residue condenses in cooler areas and pools in low spots. Combustion air flow is impeded, intercooler efficiency reduced meaning more soot is generated.
The other UNCOMMONLY known factor which is never mentioned is modern Multigrade oil additive contribution to the problem.
A Viscosity Index Improver (VI) additive is used in virtually all MINERAL SAPS diesel engine oil formulations (e.g.10W-30 , 15W-40). VI additives are a synthetic man made long chain molecule e.g a common VI is styrene butadiene or other long chain hydrocarbon polymer. Styrene butadiene is a rubbery like compound. Minute amounts of VI are present in blowby gases making the intake manifold deposits even more sticky and cling to surfaces and form tough carbonaceous deposits once thermally degraded.
(NOTE: FULL synthetic oil formulations commonly do NOT need VI additive as the carefully selected narrow range of hydrocarbons in the base oil provides the multigrade function.)
So a properly installed, correctly sized AND maintained "Catch can" will remove a lot of the oily blowby residue reducing the intake manifold fouling problem. How this device could void Warranty is therefore difficult to understand.
Catch cans however MUST be drained frequently enough to not allow oil residue carry over, maybe one reason why OEM's do not fit these devices., as draining may be needed before OEM specified service interval.
The Ryco RCC360 or Mann Hummel Provent 200 devices are high quality, well designed and sized to handle normal blowby gas flows up to around 350kW flywheel power output.
Some against "Catch Cans" will say that removal of the oil carry over by a filter will promote valve seat wear. Another myth to comment on. Diesels do not normally suffer valve seat wear due to the carbons in the system acting as a valve seat lubricant. Also NOT commonly known is that OEM valve guide seals are carefully designed and selected, and that these seals actually meter oil flow down valve guides for guide/stem wear control. Minute amounts of the metered oil flow therefore provide additional valve seat wear protection.
Really well put and correct.
Thank you for taking the time to explain that, very much appreciated.
Catch can helps prevent buildup on intake valves on engines with direct injection,if it wasn't for direct injection buildup catch cans would not be necessary.
The only reason they don't install them, is because it's another expense to them, also they make a lot of money replacing those parts and servicing. It's guaranteed income.
💯
Exactly you wouldn't by more light bulbs if the ones you have last forever.
I have a Triton 2.4. Its done 170,000km with no catch can. I use the vehicle on long journeys in temperatures of -10⁰ to +40⁰. I have checked the intake and it fine with a bit of light oiling. Catch Cans seems to be an Australian obsession as we dont fit them in europe and provide the vehicle is serviced regularly and the correct oil is used there doesn't seem to be a problem.
I will trust Toyota engineers the day they give me a reason to. It is obnoxious how people treat Toyota engineers as infallible saints. They have a long list of screw up just like any other brand engineers.
They say oil catch cans may void warranty, I will continue to use quality oil catch cans until they explain the mechanism by which it can lead to voiding my warranty.
Agree, toyota engineers are made to meet emissions rules. Not make the best reliable high performing engines.
Toyota engineers broke my trust when putting the fuse block in the most inconvenient location under the dash above the steering column.
They get the DSE award for that one.
I have a Tata Xenon, don't laugh, it goes everywhere my mates Toyotas and Nissans go. It comes from the factory with an oil mist separator fitted which drains back into the sump. Have had no dramas and intake system is clean and dry.
Isuzu fit them to their trucks at factory. Cummins still vent to atmosphere so basically that tells you that they only recycle the crankcase fumes because of EPA regulations. Catch cans cause issues when neglecting to service them correctly. Rather fit a catch than turn the Egr off breaking the law.
Couldn’t care less about “breaking the law “ by deleting the egr. For the minuscule Kms I do a year ( vehicle used for camping and surf trips )and the fact I don’t travel overseas often and I cycle to work everyday I do my bit for the environment so I’m not forking out thousands for a manifold de-coke and I sleep just fine on a night. EGR deleted
@@chrro466 Completely agree, cleaned my EGR done the injectors and fully blanked the EGR. Big improvement in fuel economy, oil stays cleaner longer, no rattle or smoke still several years later. I fully believe the benefits of deleting the EGR outweigh the negatives. Before my bumper would get sooty, now it stays far cleaner.
@@Haywoodjablomie100 By blanking do you mean just fit a blank plate between the pipe and EGR valve? wouldn't that just result in a wrong air/fuel ratio?
I mean the ECU doesn't know the EGR is fully blocked, it will reduce your throttle opening and open up the EGR which is blocked so you will have cleaner but less air at times the ECU wants the EGR to be open. Less power.
Can you blank it then tune to tell the ECU not to open the EGR or to keep the Throttle open wider while the EGR is 'open'?
D4 motors have exhaust gas recycling which reburns exhaust gases into intake manifold, exhaust gas and oil vapour mix in intake manifold,clogging up manifold make to engine run badly. It’s a big job to remove intake manifold and clean it . I’ve done that a few times. It’s a bad problem with D4 engines. I put a blank before egr valve.
Because they can is all the reason they need. If someone has messed with any emissions control on the engine it's much harder to take the company to task in court so it's much easier for them to throw you under the bus.
I have over 330K on my GU and it's never had a catch can and never had an issue. I can see how it might in some circumstances be helpful but that's not clear and I can also see hownit could easily cause issues so I've not bothered.
I have bought a catch can to fit on a new BT-50, I am now going to phone Mazda to ask them about warranty after watching this excellent vid. Thanks
Catch cans are installed factory on some vehicles . Some engines have issues with the stock valve covers oil fume baffles including Toyota .
The after market needs to have no restriction but some do some don`t .
Installing upside down ,,really ...
I am not a mechanic however I believe you have some incorrect information about PCV and EGR.
I believe PCV is primarily to prevent crank case fumes from being passed to atmosphere as they were in the OLD days.
The fumes are now sent into the intake and burnt this eliminating one part of the pollution from just being vented to air.
The EGR is primarily aimed at lowering combustion temperature which in turn reduces NOX emissions from the engine.
I do not believe that either of these systems were designed to eliminate crank case dilution or soot production etc.
I think the catch cans were implemented by end users in an effort to reduce the oil collection and clogging up of the PCV
components (PCV valve etc.). The EGR and PCV systems have nothing to do with each other.
The EGR valves clog up more as the engine gets worn and burns more oi, this going from the exhaust manifold to the valve
before entering the combustion chamber.
If I am happy to be corrected if any of this is incorrect as my knowledge comes from petrol and not diesel engines.
As for warranty, I believe the manufacturer will void warranty for ANY modification to the vehicle as it is then out of their control.
Just because some numb nuts puts a backed bean tin in line with his PCV system because his brother who is a skate board mechanic told him too,
does not mean the manufacturer should warranty it.
You are indeed correct about not using catch cans. (in my opinion).
Too funny, skate board mechanic. But so true.
has anyone seen the size of the catch can on a top fuel drag car?????
everything i have has a closed crank case vent system. bout a $400 system it goes from the valve cover thru a filter and to the intake for creating a vacuum in the crank and the oil is separated and returns thru a one way check valve back to the oil pan. 👍
Basically introducing soot back in the engine isn't a great idea, I agree a small amount of oil won't cause massive problems it does coat the intercooler reducing it efficiency. But with the catch can or any other factory device on car be Toyota or not requires preventative maintenance & maintenance filter replacement at 30 k & draining every 5 k. During the P.M. on the catch can check the pressure relief valve. When I drain the c can about 30 mm of oil is drained . Agreed cowboy installers/ mechanics have installed incorrectly blowing seals.. remember plenty of motorists have had damage done by poor mechanical service & repairs ..remember the factory Prado injection repairs.
Toyota is fitting catch cans as per standard on the new 2.8 litre 79 series , Toyota must have well and truly done their research.
Thats why you can use a high quality AOS like a unit produced by Fleetgaurd,. diesel engine manufactures, like John Deere use them on thier products.
"vary light oil" the EGR system definitely fouls up your air intake and your valves and all the other things not really miss information especially when you pull the intake manifold off the engine and you look inside and it's covered in soot and the only way for air to get in there is through a filter or the EGR crap
Pay attention bud, the crankcase ventilation brings the oil, the EGR brings the soot, the soot sticks with the oil and builds up.
With a good catch can a bunch of the oil will be caught, but there will probably still be oil in the system. It may keep from becoming a problem for longer.
I was told by a Mitsu dealer service manager. If you put one on or get one put on and have engine problems, the manufacturer will straight up void your warranty. Right or wrong it's you that now doesn't have your car and will have to fight them in court. So expensive in money and time that most can't afford it.
Rumour has it that it will be fitted from factory on 2024 1gd 70 series landcruisers.
If the rumours are true then it cant be that bad if toyota acknowledges the value of using one.
Oohhh ok
I don't necessarily agree with you that Toyota are still the Best . But I definitely agree that the EGR is the Real Problem .
The Re-circ should come from the Tailpipe area , post DPF and SCR at least . Wouldn't even need cooling quite likely .
The Catch Cans are to Prevent the " Glue " as you put it , in the hope of mitigating the problem .
Dry Soot will go through the Engine . Wet Soot will not . Current EGR Systems are ENGINEERED to fail .
Forty years as a mechanic and I say NO, NO to catch cans.
Why?
forty one years as a mechanic and I don’t agree with you.
He's probably plumbed them up wrong and fkd clients engines@@art1524
1 year as a lube technician & I don’t agree with you
Forty two years as a mechanic and I Say yes yes yes
AS I UNDERSTAND IT the EGR only opens at part throttle to save on fuel consumption filling the ecu detects egr gas flow and leans out fuel mixture as each cylinder is half filled with egr gas and fuel and air mixture, its results in a cooler combustion burn and less stress on motor , so blocking egr you really need a custom ecu tune to remove error code and retain good fuel economy and combustion temps. then the legality
Wrong understanding please keep watching videos, especially Egr Information playlist
I checked with Mitsubishi before installing one. They said no problem unless a failure is attributed to the catch can.
They will be your friends until they aren’t
@@JohnSmith-jh1iyexactly. Just as he was told. “Unless a failure is attributed to the catch can”.
A perfect avenue to reject a warranty claim. And they ALL do it.
Which they'll do.
i was having soot oil mix problems, and considered catch can. ran into your videos few years ago and gave up catch can, and disabled egr, soaked piston rings and now living problem free. later even disabled turbo and now my fuel consumption is lower and i have an engine thats perfect for my use. still have some blowby but its causing zero problems
You disabled turbo on a 1kd?
Hahahah
Disabling turbo on a diesel will only gave you worse fuel consumption.
disabled EGR will absolutely void a warranty.
I just try not to let boost build if I'm trying to be economical with fuel for both diesel and petrol.
Soem carch cans are bad, some are not.
Depends on the setup and install and quality.
The cheapo ebay cans are a no go.
Also, paper or membans filers are a no go.
Bronze filter or baffled filters depending on how free flowing they are can be good.
Dependa on what you wanna fk first?! Your engine or your power.
Choose....
Airflow inside manifold is restricted by 100,000km . Build up of sludge 1-5 mm . Closer u get to valve the worse it gets . Blocked egr /cleaned manifold / finally achieved factory fuel figures under 10ltrs at 100km/h constantly . Before this was done the fuel consumption had huge variation the older it got . injectors at 70k replaced .All other work done b4 95k
Non Toyota around 500km tank 3.oltr DID TD .. Toyota was getting 631 km outta a tank 1kD 3.oTD
After adjustments made Non Toyota all fixed . As 1kd went from 100k till 135k performance and economy dropped injectors needed replacing and manifold clean out needed plus other mods .
1KD was sold at 135k
ALL TD /DID need more service than factory requires . For Consistent performance all service work every 100k
Remember carbon inside combustion chamber will deposit itself to anything it can including injector tips .. Started seeing this on 90`s injectors with DFI IGNITION FAILURES causing injector contamination
First off, OEM Original Equipment Mediocre.
There is always room for improvement. Speaking of Toyota like they are some great entity is also questionable. Some of the dumbest designs have been found in their vehicles.
Catch cans do work, but there are some poorly made ones that allow for bigger problems.
Car makers don't include them because they know the average person only adds windshield washer fluid when it's empty. People aren't smart enough to take care of their stuff anymore.
So we say it's not covered to justify having lazy customers.
Very very simple. If you run EGR delete……get rid of catch can!!!!’
whats ya thoughts on just venting it?
Vent it into the chassis. Stops corrosion and keeps the chassis lubed up👍
Don't. Crank breather going back to intake is the most basic emissions control, all the other emissions stuff is pointless without it.
Also venting crankcase pressure through a draft tube contaminates the road surface with oil, which will put you on the shit list of every motorcyclist you meet.
ran a catch cam on my sprinter. not good results and fumes that smell horrendous
@3:30
I disagree with you.
1) do a dyno with a lightly oiled coated intercooler
2) do a dyno with a spot cleaned intercooler.
I did and here's what i found - a dramatic increase in cold air flow and power.
The oil that coats your intercooler DOES affect the performance on the intercooler. The air stays warmer and therefore combusts slower.
Its a fact.
Your opinion on the matter with your loose opinion of "thats just myths and rubbish ln the internet" hahahaha and your opinion being on the internet isn't?
I have factual dyno data that proves you wrong mate. Pull your head in
How about an aftermarket airbox? Like the Psico, would it void the warranty?
Ask your dealer and get them to put it in writing.
Lubricate the valves😂 unreal haha
high
3:09
performance vehicle race car type high
3:11
compression
Nothing can void a warranty outright.
Sponsored by Toyota lol
Sorry but catch cans do not void vehicle warranty. My Mitsubishi dealer actually installed mine on a new car! Maybe it’s a Toyota thing!
No it’s across the board. It’s definitely voided Mitsubishi warranty on more than one occasion. I hope you have in writing from your dealer that your warranty will not be effected due to the addition of the catch can.
They’ll do anything while you’re paying. It’s when they have to pay it becomes a problem
Зимой эта штука, накопит конденсат, замерзнет и лопнет. Наделает проблем. В теплом климате только.
What about water/meth injection to eliminate the soot problem before it's even produced.
That’s ad Blue etc
@@Fourby4Diesel Isn't adblue used for Nox reduction (urea). I;ve used water/meth for 15 years and my whole intake path right through t the back of the intake vales is as clean as a whistle.
Water methanol injection is basically an extra intercooler, the evaporation of the water and methanol cools the intake air so you can cram more into the cylinder.
Happy accident is that the methanol is also a solvent, and it tends to wash away the oil that is sticking the soot together. Also by replacing some of the intake air with water vapour you replicate the benefits of EGR without the downsides. Unfortunately you do have to refill the MW50 tank periodically... which is probably why OEMs never used it.
And not by Ford!
EGR bypass: engine runs hot and heavy on fuel. 50% air and 50% exhaust gas in your piston cylinder means only 50% fuel is added for combustion, so temp is lower, easy. Catch can elevates air pressure in the sump, test it by placing oil filler cap on its hole, dont screw it in, start engine and see how it dances on air pressure from the sump that cannot escape quick enough .
"50% air and 50% exhaust gas in your piston cylinder means only 50% fuel is added for combustion" ??
So are you advocating EGR bypass only ? No catch can ?
Might want to study the subject more, your theory is incorrect by far.
Nonsense, my fuel economy improved when deleting the EGR and the oil stays cleaner longer. Also no difference in temps on the Scanguage. It's like saying you should connect your ass to your mouth to save 50% on food by eating your own waste.
Catch can's belongs in the trash can. 🚮
Maybe Toyota ran out of room