‘Mr. McMahon’ Behind the Scenes With David Shoemaker | The Bill Simmons Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by David Shoemaker to talk about their new documentary, ‘Mr. McMahon,’ streaming now on Netflix.
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The doc never asked follow up and tough questions.
They just said “ok, cool”
About CRAZY shit too. Causally dropping things like abusing women like toys, shitting on heads during threesomes, and incest and breezing past it.
As a lifelong fan, there was nothing really surprising in the doc. I understand that it's supposed to reach a wider audience and that's totally fine. I just think with all this access, there could have been more profound angles on Vince and how his power-hungry mind works. I think the doc is still very well produced and worth a watch. Cheers to you for making it!
I haven’t seen it yet, but I think having Vince on board with the project was a mistake, you always get a better view when the person who’s featured is loosely attached! (Excluding the last dance) like the Ric Flair 30 for 30 left out a shit ton of stories that could’ve made that doc a classic! Unfortunately only when the subject is dead do they show all the cards!
@@michaelb3927 the andre doc was full of misinformation and left out what a terrible racist andre was.
bill aint the dude for this.
Well said!👏
on the other hand, my wife found the first two very informative.
I think the value of the doc for people who know the history is just seeing Vince himself in a scenario in which he or one of his stooges doesn’t have final edit.
All of my expectations for this was high, and as a wrestling fan… I’m kinda disappointed. I feel like I’ve seen this many times already.
Yeah, if you’re a fan we all know the territory history and all. I thought there would be more inside stories of Vince doing shady shit, but, everyone knows not to talk shit on the boss. Most telling was when they asked “what’s his legacy”! The only guy that didn’t get paid a decent wage answered. Ha
It seemed like a well made Darkside of the Ring.
I don’t think this documentary was for wwe fans. It was for tragedy porn fans
The documentary was honestly pretty disappointing. Don’t think it was interesting enough for a wider audience (my wife fell asleep for 3 of the 6 episodes) and the few new things were breezed over way too fast in favor of shit that didn’t matter. Expected more from Simmons.
I thought the Andre doc sucked too. Idk why people expected different
That 3rd episode was God awful.
And Shoemaker makes stuff up.
@@VirgilZandig Yeah Shoemaker is the least knowledgeable expert on anything I've ever seen. He has some of the worst takes followed by incorrect info. Simmons isn't much better on wrestling.
Funny, this is exactly what I expected from Bill. Which is why I didn't bother with this. He is a noted WWE fan and I figured he wouldn't crush Vince. This was aimed at the uninitiated, not the 'we know what it is' crowd who could pick this apart 8 ways from Friday.
Given the grip that Vince has on folks, I don't think we will ever get a truly hard hitting documentary on him in our lifetime, unless it's done by someone who truly doesn't give a shit and wants to get this out there.
What was passed over?
I love your work Bill, but most of this information has been known for years by wrestling fans even if you aren’t that invested. Now for the wider audience I guess, but all of this is an easy google search.
Doco was a mess. Ironically, a big uncontrolled steaming mess.
For anyone reading this unsure about watching, save yourself the time and go watch 'Darkside of the Ring' or even browse parts of youtube if you want to experience multiple better rendered versions of the same trotted out WWE PR/Wrestling stories than this.
Most of which also aren't accompanied by many factual errors, borderline idiotic levels of needless spin or vastly lacking in multiple unasked/edited out obvious follow up contextual questions.
For someone (Bill) who's entire brand is caring about what impact the mix of sport and culture has on society this was maybe the weakest most simplistic end product Simmons could've produced. I legitimately came in expecting not much, and got even less.
You had access to WWE's entire library as well as the guy himself before Vince was basically forced to go underground and this is the best you could do? How is it even possible that as multiple industry changing groundbreaking stories were happening in real time about your documentary subject the filmmakers still somehow managed to depict or contribute virtually nothing of interest. Seriously.
Bad job by you.
Felt like I wasted 6 hours waiting for some payoff.
Thank god I came here before deciding to watch
@@Sled27don only the last episode is worth watching tbh
@@Sled27don Yes praise be to Bathyphysa conifera. And thank him often.
Only good thing coming out of all this is Corny reviewing the episodes. He atleast gives us some other aspects that weren't mentioned.
Jim Cornette & Brian Last exposed “wrestling expert” David Shoemaker’s bullshit claims after the Andre special. Can’t wait for them to dive back in on both these guys after this airs.
Was wondering who this foo on the right was. Corny & Last does mention his dumb azz on their 1st episode review! 😂
Just finished watching the whole "MR. McMAHON" docuseries.
Episode 6: "The Finish" covered the events since 2022 as well as can be expected, considering most of the interviews were filmed before it all took place.
There was a lot of filler and oft-repeated lore, but it's basically a 6-hour history of WWE since the 1980s, with a focus on Vince McMahon and the McMahon family.
I found Episode 1: "Junior" the most interesting, as it covered Vince's early life and origins in the business (although little is known about his childhood, as Vince won't really talk about it).
My favorite tidbit: When Vince stated his favorite wrestler growing up was old-school heel Dr. Jerry Graham, and that he apparently stole his infamous "strut" from him.
Just keep in mind this disclaimer, at the very beginning of the documentary:
"THE MAJORITY OF THE FOLLOWING INTERVIEWS, INCLUDING WITH VINCE McMAHON, WERE FILMED BEFORE THE SEXUAL MISCONDUCT ALLEGATIONS WERE MADE PUBLIC."
This documentary is nothing u can’t also find on RUclips or any basic cable documentary.
Until Vince is dead or civilly/legally convicted of something, the makers of a documentary like this have a lot of legal restrictions to work around so they don't get sued.
It was awful!!!! It was more of a documentary of the history of WWE
Vince will shit on this doc like he shit on that poor woman...
Poor woman my azz she was paid for services rendered tired of these women and the m2 bs she was fine until the money stopped
As someone who follows wrestling it kind of was a waste of 6 hours. It was a bunch of stories that have been shown before just compiled together. That being said it was well made and understand the appeal
6 hours of my life I will never get back. I already knew everything in it.
"It should have been Ricochet." - This sums up Wrestling Reddit perfectly.
The greatest trick David Shoemaker ever pulled was making Bill Simmons think he's a legitimate expert in wrestling history
Who is he?
@@Mark-eg2yd he's just this guy who did a wrestling podcast years ago on ESPN who Bill took a liking to. Simmons knows basically nothing about wrestling and David impressed him. I noticed in this video Bill hilariously says he's about an 8 in wrestling knowledge and David is a 10. I'm an actual 8 and I assure you David is like a 7 and Bill is a 3
Only 4 episodes in but I’m disappointed the doc sorta skipped right past the Jimmy Snuka murder of his mistress (whom you referred to as his “girlfriend” too) and didn’t appear to have asked Vince about it AND you half-heartedly discussed the possibility of Vince “having a hand” in the lack of any meaningful investigation. And if you did and he refused to discuss it should’ve been shown
Yep, not even Vince saying, "That's ridiculous." Lame.
If you listen to this podcast it sounds like Vince didn’t answer much or provide insight on any story/questions
This is the number one thing that's bugged me, though I'm only through the first two episodes. The Dark Side of the Ring episode about Snuka made a very strong case that McMahon bought off the local cops, and they just hand wave it with "oh there are rumors he stopped a murder investigation" and didn't even ask Vince? WTF.
What a puff piece, Bill. Outside of the last 20 minutes there’s no reason for Vince to give a shit.
WHAT? DID YOU NOT WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY. MULTIPLE SEXUAL ASSAULTS, WRESTLERS DEATHS, OWEN HART INCIDENT, THE FEMALE REFEREE WHO WAS RAPED, STEROID AND PAINKILLER ABUSE, HIS POOR RELATIONSHIP WITH HIS FAMILY, THE DISGUSTING CONTENT PUT ON TELEVISION, THE TREATMENT OF WOMEN, THE TREATMENT OF EVERYBODY. THIS MAN IS A MEGALOMANIAC WHO BUILT HIS BUSINESS DESTROYING EVERYONE IN HIS PATH. THIS GETS THE STORY OUT TO THE CASUAL PERSON WHO DID NOT KNOW THE DEVASTATION THIS MAN CAUSED
The "Mr. McMahon" series felt like any other WWE produced series, everything in the series was public knowledge and if I were to compare it to any episode in the 30 for 30 series it's pretty disappointing. Their are no revelations or really even fresh prospectives on such well trodden ground. If anything this oddly felt like Netflix trying to clear the air before they start their WWE programming.
I’m on episode 4 and this series is incredible! My era growing up was the attitude era so I didn’t know about all that happened behind the scenes in the 80s and early 90s. Episode 2 was disturbing.. lots of dark behind the scenes I didn’t know about.. but I’m really enjoying this 👍
Also not a die hard fan but I have big time nostalgia for the stone cold, the rock, DX, Chris Jericho and the EDGE era! Ect. Didn’t know much about the prior eras so again..really enjoying this. 👍 👍
Doc was disappointed. Didn't go on anything we didn't know
The fact that there were no archive footage that haven’t been seen before when you had a wwe library access
It was just basically a history of wwe doc! Nothing we didn't already know, I've seen better on RUclips you dropped the ball on this over hyped and underwhelming
Whoever selected the on screen visuals did a great job. Everything else about this documentary was lacklustre. This really just made me miss the attitude era more than anything.
Just watched it. It was terrible, basic level lore that everybody already knows about
Wow I’m one of the die hards and I really really like it. I really wanted them to ask him anything about Randy Savage but I’m enjoying it.
That was a severe omission.
100% a doco for casual fans
Bill says his wrestling knowledge is 8/10. What a fool.
mine is a 4/10 and bill cant see me im so far ahead of him.
@@timmutohfan Love it. I would say the same for me.
@@brewer921an "8/10 wrestling knowledge" wouldn't be shocked to learn Gorilla Monsoon was set to own WWF once Vincent J. dies until Vincent K. made his dad an offer.
Which tells me Bill didn't know Monsoon owned part of Pittsburgh with Bruno or Puerto Rico with Jovica.
@@brewer921I'm not flexing on Bill Simmons here, he's just not the guy for this.
@@ReedMiller-z6n is making documentaries filled with inaccuracies a badge of honor? That's what happens every time he makes one about pro wrestling.
I will also point out, you just said being able to speak intelligently about a subject isn't a badge of honor..
The comment section is killing this doc lmao
the andre doc was fumbled so poorly i cant watch this. bill doesnt know pro wrestling well enough to tell any of the stories, neither does anyone hes worked with.
Yeah, who the heck is this foo on the right that's "so entrenched" in wrasslin? Never heard or seen him before. 🤦♂️
@@aceloco817 he mightve been involved with the other 2 wrestling docs simmons produced. he might be the guy who said andre was a "touring heel in the 70s". which is false factually and makes no sense in wrestling logic. that line made me turn it off and i never went to finish it and wont consume any of bills wrestling content.
@@aceloco817 yeah that is him. He's a know nothing
Just to be clear, the Andre the Giant Documentary was mostly well done… but David Shoemaker, who is leaned on by Bill Simmons for his wrestling “expertise”🙄, was a huge mistake. In that Andre doc, this “expert”(Shoemaker) made a bunch of complete BS comments. For instance, he claimed that in the 70s, Andre was a working heel throughout the territories, who would be consistently matched up against that area’s top face. I mean, does he try & make this stuff up, or is it just things he’s heard over the years? Cause he certainly wasn’t a fan before his own conception. Especially today, it’s not that difficult to find out that is BS, & it’s a shame a guy like Simmons apparently doesn’t have the time, or interest, to either fact check the talking heads he employs, or just hire ones with actual credibility.
The documentary sucked
As a lifelong die hard wrestling fan,i really enjoyed the doc. Did i know most of the stuff? Yeah but that wasn't why i was coming to this anyways, to see how vince would talk about stuff blew my mind.
Everyone who was & is a WWE fan, has seen everything in this documentary.
This was SOOOO disappointing, nothing new in the documentary, just a timeline with NO NEW information. We dont know much about his childhood but they barely touch on it.
Shoemaker being one of the “experts“ should tell you everything you need to know about the documentary. What a dolt…
This was a documentary made for people who aren't constant pro wrestling watchers. People like us (who read dirt sheets....know who Meltzer is) knew 98% of this information. Not mad about that because any new news that came out, we'd know about. Overall, a good showing to those who aren't too familiar with wrestling but heard about Vince's crimes from the news.
I read a pretty detailed thread about this and it's nothing I don't already know about Vince. I'm a lifelong wrestling fan and I've heard most if not all of what they touched on. Vince is to me, the most celebrated cult leader in American history. His rap sheet alone is enough to get anyone locked up with the key incinerated.
Bill is a mega WWE fan, so I didn't see this being some scathing repudiation of Vince and all the shit he did across the last FOUR DECADES. In a lot of ways, I believe Vince is similar to Jerry Jones. Both have their greatest accomplishment that doubles as their greatest failure. For Jerry, it was winning a title without Jimmy. He hasn't gotten out of the Divisional Round since. For Vince, it was successfully monopolizing the industry for 2 decades. He ran fans off, lead to an upstart promotion not only starting but being more successful out the blocks than anyone could've expected.
He changed a bit but after a set point in time, his failures outweighed his successes but due to the fact every talking head can't stop glazing him for past success, it isn't hit on like it should. Vince quite literally dropped a body on PPV and kept the show going. He had multiple interactions with women onscreen that likely took place off it against their will too. More NDAs than any regular person should have. He is a morally subterranean individual who is who he has shown himself to be consistently, yet people choose to be willfully oblivious to it.
Doc was a waste of time
Bill and Co, it seems like you captured the consensus on this podcast. Thanks for explaining. If you see the Warrior hit piece all talent was not used make their own decision. It’s so obvious up to Hulk admitting his promos were all Vince. Biggest mistake Vince did is selling it and not leaving it to the fam. It will move on with him. Turning point was after Wrestlemania 6 the a big gap until 20 years on
Good doc. It was fair. Not a hit piece. The McMahons tried covering up the “Montreal ScrewJob”. Vince couldn’t pay the contract but still wanted to come out on top. Warrior only stood up for himself and got torned to shreds.
Bunch of marks in here complaining 😂 go cry somewhere
100% Vince punished Triple H and told Warrior to pin him in 20 secs
put out the evil kneivel stuff!!
Terrible documentary, just a half assed history of the WWE. Totally pathetic. No follow up questions on Vince, hardly anything about his childhood, no personal stories from the lame talking heads. Should have made a doc on Shane. Tony Atlas seemed like the realest guy, but why interview him?
Well put
Vince McMahon is one of the strangest people on earth and even after everything , still has his ''Yes men'' who won't slate him .
What on earth did people expect ?? There is literally legal proceedings going on , Netflix have just entered into a business relationship with WWE ...
I think people who disliked it were expecting wayyyy too much . Vince has been strange with the media for decades and openly admitted he says things he doesn't believe for the sake of saying it .
I did think Steve Austin came across very odd though . Very very strange . And I say that as someone who was a massive Austin fan .
I didn't watch it yet and probably won't now. Why did he come off odd? I'm curious.
Netflix just payed billions for the rights to Raw… did y’all really expect this to be a tell all?
Makes sense
I thought they were going to try to make Vince look bad and show it's a new company now. The filmmakers failed at really making Vince look bad.
Absolutely terrible documentary. Just a generic A+E style rehash of same old stories. Waste of time
At first i was worried this doc would try to glorify vince and gloss over all the bs he did or was involved in, but im glad the entire story was told.
Does affect you at all
The entire story was not told. Lets also be honest the chick was cool until Vince stopped paying her. Just saying
“vince bad” story while x1000 a business that was known as carnival entertainment is not balanced lol
Halfway through. I never had a doubt this would be great. You guys did a really good job
It's rubbish if you know anything about wrestling
Pat McAfee got a better interview with Vince… Whoever interviewed him wasn’t one of the boys….So you didn’t get much, and that’s unfortunate.
People complaining, that they already knew the story.... No you didn't, all you knew was 3 hand account.... This is the first time from the horse's mouth
It's definitely not the first time Vince has talked about his own life in interviews.
WWE: McMahon 2006 doc, The True Story of WrestleMania 2011, there's plenty more wrestling docs Vince has done. TSN interviews were more in depth than this poor series.
I'm through most of it, and it's good, but they totally glossed over the Jimmy Snuka situation. They gave that situation and McMahon's likely involvement scant attention.
Also, wasn't WWE more culpable in Owen Hart's death? I feel like there was not enough scrutiny on that.
Of course Netflix had to naturally in the face of the new environment in which we live---had to touch on the various exploitation of women in various storylines. I rolled my eyes at that. Trish Stratus actually addressed this the most responsible way---basically saying it was fiction and used to encite emotions. That was the only part I think that could have been left out ---but again, based on everything that has gone on --it's a cautionary tale within a tale---and in relation to the monster that has been allegedly pointed to as Vince McMahon it was done well (a testament to Bill Simmons for covering all the bases---which was a very smart move)
Like him or hate him, he really carried a business thru ups and downs for the most part of 40 years.
He's an asshole---but he managed to turn the company into a billion-dollar business. So you at least have to give him credit. Especially during the Monday night wars---he new he had to evolve and he did and he succeeded.
You probably thought you did something here but you did absolutely nothing that fans don't already know. I could cut up 4 or 5 documentaries from the WWE Network, sprinkle some RUclips videos and make this documentary almost verbatim. It seems there was a real lack of knowledge going in and no research done. This was a beginners history of the WWE documentary, not a Vince McMahon documentary. A big swing and a miss.
I'm sorry but who the hell is this shoemaker guy? No wrestling historian recognizes you! Aren't you the same guy who made up stuff in the Andre the Giant documentary???
The doc sucked, honestly. It wasn't a bio on Vince, it was a bio on the company. Piss poor job of separating the man from the business. Literally six hours of shit we've known for decades with nothing new to add. No creative direction or nuance to the project.
The fact we got a bonehead like Phil Mushnick in the piece instead of Jim Ross tells you everything you need to know. The doc treats Mushnick like some heroic whistleblower when in reality he's just a bitter, angry old man who's tried to get the wrestling business shut down. But ya know, the creators wouldn't know that. Might require some actual research!
Listening to the pitch here from these guys, it occurs to me that none of you knew what you were documenting. The idea of being purposefully safe with this series is a hilarious excuse for a shitty result. You know it's crap, Bill, you can say it. The best part was the archival footage, all of which Vince has used in his own past documentaries. Even the clips were recycled clips Vince has used for decades. Netflix couldn't even be bothered to go back and rip their own clips.
Watching early on, it dawned on me this project was obviously made by non-wrestling fans. How can you give the reigns to someone who doesn't know what to edit based on their lack of product knowledge? Its just like... These are the folks making the decisions? Wowzah..
Super unimaginative project and what a missed opportunity to have Vince speak on various controversial topics. But no, it's just a typical doc that hits the typical high notes.
The creators are just not good, man. The interviewer brings up the Playboy interview and asks Vince, not about his mother and the abuse. But asks why Vince even felt comfortable enough to let that information out in the Playboy interview in the first place. It's like .. WHAT?! MY GOD 🤦... it's just so mind numbingly dumb. Every question and every direction was like, wow.. gee, haven't heard this before. He clearly didn't have respect for the Netflix crew to let it go and actually talk. It was typical guarded Vince. We know just as much as we knew before the project, and that's not good.
The hilarious punchline to that Playboy bit is they gave us partial highlights of that article because the Netflix interviewer wasn't good enough to elicit a different response from McMahon. So it's like 'here, here's an actual interviewer getting real answers because we weren't able to!' Cool 👍
For Vince to sit there for as many hours as you're claiming and the end result is the same rinse & repeat formula every other documentary has done for two decades... You've officially failed in your endeavor.
You can create a series for everyone to enjoy and not bore us all to tears with the same bullshit formula.
Vince is a Promoter. Nothing more nothing less. He built this off the backs of wrestlers like the Hartman family. After Hulk and Warrior he inserted himself into the story. He couldn’t do it before because the wrestlers before would have checked him. Put him back in his place even as the owner. They got soft and he brought Sable on so he could creep on her in front of the world. That’s why he offered his mistress to Brock and bring him back. He acted stupid when they asked him about Sable. 100% he knows who Sable is. He was in love with her and wrestlers say they heard him say he was going to get her.
It covered absolutely 0 new ground and essentially re-tread everything Vince publicly got away with. Behind The Bastards did a better job, even in a podcast format.
After this Diddy shit. It’s bad to see the Rock and Cena as well as others not say shit and say he gave me the opportunity and was a father figure. WTF. Warriors stood up to this. Vince said it’s his belt not the X time champions that earned it. 100% he didn’t insert himself in the early 90s because the old school guys would have checked him in the ring. Once the newbies were there and he was the older dude he got with Sable in front of the network tv. So obvious he’s the Diddler
I didn't watch it yet but my hopes for the documentary have been crushed by the comment section. Following a huge scandal by an average, run of the mill documentary is a major fail. It's either the perfect time to release it or the worst time to release it if you have no information that will grab people's attention. It apparently was the worst time to release it.
If Gorilla Monsoon were alive he would call Shoemaker a fountain of misinformation! 😂😂😂
I think the doc had to be either more of an expose of Vince or more the story of Vince and the WWE. There's going to be crossover at points but if you go in expecting one thing you won't be disappointed the other isn't discussed often.
The only time anyone has heard of David shoemaker in the wrestling business is when Jim Cornette made an ass out of him for lying on the Andre doc.
Malik Nabors is the greatest wide receiver in the history of the league. He’s like a Jerry rice with Randy moss and Tyreek hill crossed with Calvin Johnson, except taller and faster with better hands. I’m glazing! Don’t forget, I said the same thing about sequin Barkley..,slimmins is an effin joke 😂
The documentary wasn't what I expected. They didn't mention that Vince has ADHD and Dyslexia and they didn't mention what happened to him at Military School. It felt *VERY* WWE. compared to the Andre the Giant documentary, the Mr McMahon documentary was **PAINFUL** to watch.
The first episode was very good. Will watch more later. The breadcrumbs you drop about the type of person Vince is shows more than enough about him for us to get context if we want to go deeper on some of the stories.
The documentary was just like wrestling today - boring and unremarkable
I had extremely high hopes for this. Why am I hearing about the Montreal Screwjob AGAIN when nothing new is being told? Why am I learning about the rise of Stone Cold & The Rock or Hulkamania running wild? Hogan passing the torch to Warrior and Warrior being a bad wrestler? 100+ hours of interviews and what we got was a general retelling of the history of WWE when you can literally throw a handful of rocks and hit 20+ docs that already covered all of these topics (and more in-depth). I mean what in the actual fuck? You can literally learn more about McMahon himself by watching a random 5 minute RUclips video.
The explanation of Vince asking for a documentary makes all the sense of why it’s so inept at telling a new story that revealed anything new. Vince declining to tell certain stories because they were “too crazy” was telling and was worth investigating if this documentary was going to go the way fans had expected this documentary would go. Those were the stories that people wanted to hear and unfortunately (or fortunately), not having those stories divulged made this a duplicate copy of what A&E and WWE have already done.
This documentary wasnt that great to me. Sure somethings were interesting but i was expecting something more/ different
Outside of Vince admitting he had “sexual relations” with Rita Chatterton there was absolutely nothing new in this doc smh. Shoemaker is a goof too.
Have watched the first 4 episodes so far. I'm a child of the 80's so it was fun to remember things like "closed circuit" viewings of the original Wrestlemania and how we would wait until the VHS copy of it would come out to watch it at a friend's house or Saturday Night's Main Event and how big a deal it was for WWF to get on NBC on a Saturday night or Cyndi Lauper and Captain Lou. Wild stuff. Enjoying it but realise that it won't be that interesting for the diehard fans of today.
I’m only two episodes in. I think hardcore wrestling fans who have watched and read about wrestling over the years will have a different opinion than those who don’t have as much knowledge on the subject. Personally I would have liked more content on Vince’s childhood and early days working with SR
Vince describing himself had to put in sexually active lol hopefully he’ll get thrown in jail
I was glued to the TV, great access and behind the scenes as a fan from the previous eras, great to get Vince's perspective, well done, was more about the history and they sprinkled in negative shots throughout. 7/10, seen and knew 85-90 percent of info but the 10-15 percent and access is always awesome
I'm a lifelong wrestling fan but still really enjoyed the doc unlike a lot of the moaners on here. It's not aimed at the 1% that follow all the news and watch all the docs/shoot interviews. It's aimed to appeal to the mainstream and if you havent heard most this stuff it will be quite shocking and informative.
Chill out wrestling fans, the stereotype of us being obsessive and never satisifed is all clear to see in many of the comments 😅
It’s hard making docs like this because it’s all well tread territory that wrestling fans know about. Nothing really new added. But I can see how it can be interesting for those who don’t follow the business of sports entertainment.
Excellent documentary, left me wanting more. Can you release the raw interview footage that was cut? Is that even an option?
I dont think many people could have gotten wwe to where it is like vince but it was also so obvious that a change was needed not because wrestling changed but because culture changed and vince didnt keep up with it. Which is fine and i wouldnt want to give up my lifes work easily either. Its unfortunate that hes a bad person and couldnt gracefully bow out as legend.
Vince wanted his story to be like Ric Flair’s known to bed down women. You can tell he was conflicted and he just expected you guys to tell that story.
If your a casual fan it was probably great but as a lifelong fan it didnt say anything that hadnt already been said. Blew a good opportunity to tell the side of Vince that doesnt get discussed. Felt like i was watching a documentary that wasnt sure what story it wanted to tell.
Your incorrect about anyone could have took WWE national and then international. Clearly you dont understand the territory era. What Vince did took balls most people dont have
I'll love the doc so far but I will neuer understand why anybody above 18 would still watch wrestling on a regular bases, especially in the pc era
Why did they skip the Vinnie Lupton and Jimmy Snuka part with the briefcase and pay outs?
you'll learn more about vince from a random episode of jim cornette's podcast than the doc.
After episode 1 this unlocked so many things I need to find on RUclips like the Vince talk show. Cindy lauder story line
It's a solid doc. Yeah the information isn't new, but it's still enjoyable.
This didn't live up to ANY of the hype whatsoever.
I would honestly just want to watch the footage they shot of Vince even if its a jumbled mess.
I've not watched any of this yet, but does it also have a wrestling historian that makes shit up like that goof did in the Andre documentary?
I really wanted to love it but they didn't cover anything new besides a very small amount of little details
You can tell its not getting good reviews as both these guys are just trying to justify why ppl may not loke it😂
Literally learned nothing new , shoulda talked bout John Laurinaitis in the doc … 7/10
Literally dark side of the ring without commercials
It's fine, not surprising seeing wrestling fans fail to see it was made for a wider netflix audience.
As a life long WWE guy I still love Vince then now together forever
It wasnt good Vince and WWE should have had zero input.
Hopefully Mr McMahon will get the p ditty treatment soon
To say that there are people out there that could do what Vince did with WWE is a bit ridiculous. If it wasn't for HHH and the deep bench around him, it's hard to believe it could be as successful. HHH is a singular talent. Heyman is a singular talent. HBK. Stephanie. CM Punk. Roman. The Rock. Etc. You have a lot of people there who were influenced by Vince and the culture created there. I'm not saying it's impossible, but there is no real way of knowing until you have a generation of wrestlers what worked for Vince replaced by the next generation. The shear determination he had for the business and the culture created at the WWE is significant and impacts what happens at the company until this day. Do I believe WWE would be as great as it is today if Vince were still in charge? No. But let's not pretend that there isn't only a handful of people who could make the WWE as successful it is today. The seeds Vince sowed throughout his career both hurt and helped the industry. And some of those trees planted long ago are now so powerful that they don't need him anymore because the roots are so strong because he provided the support for them to grow.
It shows a lack of understanding about professional wrestling.
But shoemaker is a 10/10 and he’s 8.5 right?
This doc is fatally flawed. The tone is entirely wrong throughout given the severity of the 2024 allegations. It isn't sufficient to do a "balanced view" of Vince and then slap on ten minutes of news footage at the end telling the audience that the guy is a monster. If that's all they could get because the access to everyone dried up after the allegations then it just shouldn't have been released.
If you need them to beat you over the head with it, maybe you should just go someplace else. The first episode is enough to show who Vince is. The rest is just additional information in the story.
I didn’t really learn anything new in the documentary
This whole interview sounds like an apology to people watching the doc that they didn't actually make something worth watching.
It's a good doc