Absolutely phenomenal take and video! I’ll be responding to this on a livestream next week after we’ve given the community enough time to pitch ideas. Keep up the great videos; I love the suggestions
@@Xillin here on RUclips 😁 Most are unlisted in a playlist, but special ones I keep as vods. Plan on reading our comment sections and such. Feel free to post the vid wherever so we can get the conversation going. Maybe I can bring you in at some point
I've thought about the Tank's function as well, and what you talk about is pretty much exactly what I came up with. One of my ideas was to have enemies have skills that can be read and interrupted, and Tanks can have abilities that can interrupt those abilities, and if executed properly, generates a ton of threat. Using these kinds of skills to interrupt and essentially control the opposition in a pvp setting still serves the same purpose. Control the damn Tank so the damn Tank doesn't control us. Gives the Tank a more dynamic playstyle too, but it would require a bit more skill, which is a drawback to some people.
I like the idea of a generering an increasing buff/debuff on a target or ally dependant on how much threat the tank generates on that target. Attacking the tank reduces the threat and thus the buff/debuff effectiveness he has generated. Different effects for different tank classes. Healing and damage given or received is the obvious variations. Other variations could be movement speed, attack speed, armour value, spell vulnrabilities etc. The important thing for this to work is an intuitive way to communicate what is happening to the players.
Pve threat should be simple, because the moment it gets complicated and tanks can't maintain a target is the moment we lose the masses because it's ridiculous gameplay and not fun to have tanks always losing threat. If dps are constantly running for their lives most encounters because threat control is complex, player numbers will drop off harder than even new world
I have even thought if they want to use threat as a mechanic for tanks. What they could do is the more threat a tank is generating the more damage they start doing. So as they are CC'ing people and auto attacking and using taunts their damage starts increasing up to a cap of lets say 40% increased damage or something like that. I also want skills that i think will be befitting a tank. Besides taunts and CCs, i would live to see a damage mitigation field that the tank player could place anywhere around them almost like healers do with heals. A place swap which swaps places with an ally target, and after the swap it taunts and roots all enemies in place within 10 meters or something like that. (The numbers can be tweaked. it's just an example) giving allies shields is a classic tank thing. Along with the auras you mentioned. Besides just giving allies shields id like to see a shield field as well. Almost like titans in Destiny 1 & 2. Place down a field and when allies go inside they gain a full health shield or partial shield. Or make it a shield that generates as they are in the field longer, the shield gets bigger. I want to see gameplay mechanics like this for tanks to give them more versatility and work better for different play styles. I did mention some of this in the forums during the tank showcase, but im not sure if steven ever saw it or not. Or if anyone on the intrepid team saw it.
So long as they fix aggro from Alpha. I'm interested to see what they end up doing with that concept. The multitude of tank classes makes the role seriously interesting across the mechanic ideal.
I've always thought Taunt abilities should put a damage debuff on the target - a debuff that would reduce damage to everyone EXCEPT the caster (Tank). That would mimic the aggro mechanic. Now, it doesn't have to be a -100% debuff, maybe it's a -50% debuff, so you could still target other players, but with reduced effectiveness. To your point of making the Tank a 'threat', you'd have to decide if you want to eliminate the Tank first or play the entire time with reduced damage.
If there is one thing I don't do on RUclips is to watch click bait videos or immediately click away if I start to suspect it's a click bait. In fact, I unsubscribe to channels starting to do it unless I have some kind of connection to it. You can actually report videos for misleading titles and thumbnails, never understood why clicks and views are so important, more than quality.
They are important to generate money. We can all not like something, but at the end of the day, the content creators we watch need to make a living. Because of that, click bait will never go away, and I can't say I think it should go away either
I hope they tone down the spell effects. Every action this warrior is doing results in a flash of lights or streaking colors. It will become like guild wars2 and ffxiv where you can’t see what the hell is going on through the seizure inducing ball of spell effects in the center of you screen. Not every action needs to rend open the fabric of the universe.
If you watched the Cyclops boss video, I noticed they toned down a lot of the spell effects. And this has been one of the biggest complaints from the community, so I imagine by the time launch rolls around, they will have struck the right balance there.
That's been a thing in a lot of MMO's I've played the tanks AOE taunt puts a debuff on opponents within range and they do a lower damage to the tanks team mates for a period of time therefore forcing you to focus the tank, Warhammer Online did this the best for me with the black orc, you had 2 shield abilities one when raised would protect players behind you and the other would reflect some of the damage back, so you could really help a push by protecting people getting focused or picking off DPS that are just mindlessly spamming, man i miss that game my favorite siege PvP i ever played, R.I.P Mythic you where ahead of your time.
Tanks job in pvp is peel/cc and typically support shielding/damage reduction. Any abilty in pvp that would make you focus a tank when there are healers as well seems like a terrible mechanic to me and would make a tank too op. Normally its about avoiding the Tank in pvp since they take the least damage lol
Sorry late on this... I saw this posted somewhere so cannot claim it as my own. Have threat generated on a PvP target increase the damage the tank does to that target. Eventually you have to pay attention to the tank or the tank will start wrecking folks. It also has a fun 1v1 type mechanic where the longer the fight goes the more advantage the tank gains. But also a nice counter for targets that can wipe aggro, creating a rock -> paper -> scissors scenario that ks fun.
I was thinking the other way around. Instead of boosting your team. Threat moves decrease the dmg of enemies. Unless they target the tank. For example, AOE taunt is used by the tank, reducing dmg by 10-20% to all those who do not target the tank.
@@Xillin Yep that is exactly where I was getting that idea from when I used to play Guardian. That concept could help the taunt abilities be useful in PvP. Also easier to balance since its basically a debuff ability.
for me tank is not tank if i cant block full attack and get a hit.They need to change this block system like in wow,bdo,tera!I mean what a point use spell block aor normal left click block if you get a damage?!So what gonna happend then when will do a raid?!hard to say anything before alpha 2,but definitly this is not tank for me!
If you make a tank as valuable a target as damage dealers, you will end up with people very happily focusing tanks first in battles, which requires no tactics and no brain whatsoever. Tank has to be lower-prioority target if you want pvp decision-making and target selection to be interesting. Do not try to change the very basics of MMO design. Last games that tried to change such core ideas died decades ago and for a good reason.
My idea is to allow the tank start combos. this allows the tank to pace the encounter. threat would also include the amount of damage mitigated for NPCs. No need to do anything spacial for PvP, cause when your biggest heal gets interrupted, your gonna be pissed anyway. adding the shield thing would fit nicely.
Absolutely phenomenal take and video! I’ll be responding to this on a livestream next week after we’ve given the community enough time to pitch ideas. Keep up the great videos; I love the suggestions
Awesome! Where do you do livestreams?
@@Xillin here on RUclips 😁 Most are unlisted in a playlist, but special ones I keep as vods.
Plan on reading our comment sections and such. Feel free to post the vid wherever so we can get the conversation going. Maybe I can bring you in at some point
I've thought about the Tank's function as well, and what you talk about is pretty much exactly what I came up with. One of my ideas was to have enemies have skills that can be read and interrupted, and Tanks can have abilities that can interrupt those abilities, and if executed properly, generates a ton of threat. Using these kinds of skills to interrupt and essentially control the opposition in a pvp setting still serves the same purpose. Control the damn Tank so the damn Tank doesn't control us. Gives the Tank a more dynamic playstyle too, but it would require a bit more skill, which is a drawback to some people.
Preach!
I like the idea of a generering an increasing buff/debuff on a target or ally dependant on how much threat the tank generates on that target. Attacking the tank reduces the threat and thus the buff/debuff effectiveness he has generated. Different effects for different tank classes. Healing and damage given or received is the obvious variations. Other variations could be movement speed, attack speed, armour value, spell vulnrabilities etc. The important thing for this to work is an intuitive way to communicate what is happening to the players.
Pve threat should be simple, because the moment it gets complicated and tanks can't maintain a target is the moment we lose the masses because it's ridiculous gameplay and not fun to have tanks always losing threat.
If dps are constantly running for their lives most encounters because threat control is complex, player numbers will drop off harder than even new world
I have even thought if they want to use threat as a mechanic for tanks. What they could do is the more threat a tank is generating the more damage they start doing. So as they are CC'ing people and auto attacking and using taunts their damage starts increasing up to a cap of lets say 40% increased damage or something like that.
I also want skills that i think will be befitting a tank. Besides taunts and CCs, i would live to see a damage mitigation field that the tank player could place anywhere around them almost like healers do with heals. A place swap which swaps places with an ally target, and after the swap it taunts and roots all enemies in place within 10 meters or something like that. (The numbers can be tweaked. it's just an example) giving allies shields is a classic tank thing. Along with the auras you mentioned. Besides just giving allies shields id like to see a shield field as well. Almost like titans in Destiny 1 & 2. Place down a field and when allies go inside they gain a full health shield or partial shield. Or make it a shield that generates as they are in the field longer, the shield gets bigger.
I want to see gameplay mechanics like this for tanks to give them more versatility and work better for different play styles. I did mention some of this in the forums during the tank showcase, but im not sure if steven ever saw it or not. Or if anyone on the intrepid team saw it.
This is brilliant. I love it!
@@Xillin thank you!!
So long as they fix aggro from Alpha. I'm interested to see what they end up doing with that concept. The multitude of tank classes makes the role seriously interesting across the mechanic ideal.
I've always thought Taunt abilities should put a damage debuff on the target - a debuff that would reduce damage to everyone EXCEPT the caster (Tank). That would mimic the aggro mechanic. Now, it doesn't have to be a -100% debuff, maybe it's a -50% debuff, so you could still target other players, but with reduced effectiveness. To your point of making the Tank a 'threat', you'd have to decide if you want to eliminate the Tank first or play the entire time with reduced damage.
If there is one thing I don't do on RUclips is to watch click bait videos or immediately click away if I start to suspect it's a click bait. In fact, I unsubscribe to channels starting to do it unless I have some kind of connection to it. You can actually report videos for misleading titles and thumbnails, never understood why clicks and views are so important, more than quality.
They are important to generate money. We can all not like something, but at the end of the day, the content creators we watch need to make a living.
Because of that, click bait will never go away, and I can't say I think it should go away either
Sounds like interesting ideas. I'm curious how Intrepid are gonna keep tanks fun and valuable across PvE and PvP.
I hope they tone down the spell effects. Every action this warrior is doing results in a flash of lights or streaking colors. It will become like guild wars2 and ffxiv where you can’t see what the hell is going on through the seizure inducing ball of spell effects in the center of you screen. Not every action needs to rend open the fabric of the universe.
If you watched the Cyclops boss video, I noticed they toned down a lot of the spell effects. And this has been one of the biggest complaints from the community, so I imagine by the time launch rolls around, they will have struck the right balance there.
@@Xillin nice
That's been a thing in a lot of MMO's I've played the tanks AOE taunt puts a debuff on opponents within range and they do a lower damage to the tanks team mates for a period of time therefore forcing you to focus the tank, Warhammer Online did this the best for me with the black orc, you had 2 shield abilities one when raised would protect players behind you and the other would reflect some of the damage back, so you could really help a push by protecting people getting focused or picking off DPS that are just mindlessly spamming, man i miss that game my favorite siege PvP i ever played, R.I.P Mythic you where ahead of your time.
Hey wait a minute... This isn't Embers Adrift >:(
It's coming.
Tanks job in pvp is peel/cc and typically support shielding/damage reduction. Any abilty in pvp that would make you focus a tank when there are healers as well seems like a terrible mechanic to me and would make a tank too op. Normally its about avoiding the Tank in pvp since they take the least damage lol
Sorry late on this... I saw this posted somewhere so cannot claim it as my own.
Have threat generated on a PvP target increase the damage the tank does to that target. Eventually you have to pay attention to the tank or the tank will start wrecking folks. It also has a fun 1v1 type mechanic where the longer the fight goes the more advantage the tank gains. But also a nice counter for targets that can wipe aggro, creating a rock -> paper -> scissors scenario that ks fun.
I was thinking the other way around. Instead of boosting your team. Threat moves decrease the dmg of enemies. Unless they target the tank. For example, AOE taunt is used by the tank, reducing dmg by 10-20% to all those who do not target the tank.
This is exactly how SWTOR does it. And to be honest, it works well. Really strong tank play can turn the tide of battle in that game.
@@Xillin Yep that is exactly where I was getting that idea from when I used to play Guardian. That concept could help the taunt abilities be useful in PvP. Also easier to balance since its basically a debuff ability.
For the analytics
for me tank is not tank if i cant block full attack and get a hit.They need to change this block system like in wow,bdo,tera!I mean what a point use spell block aor normal left click block if you get a damage?!So what gonna happend then when will do a raid?!hard to say anything before alpha 2,but definitly this is not tank for me!
I agree with your thoughts on tanks Xillin. Ive always thought adding passive auras to them for PVP would make them more viable and more of a target.
If you make a tank as valuable a target as damage dealers, you will end up with people very happily focusing tanks first in battles, which requires no tactics and no brain whatsoever. Tank has to be lower-prioority target if you want pvp decision-making and target selection to be interesting. Do not try to change the very basics of MMO design. Last games that tried to change such core ideas died decades ago and for a good reason.
Great points!
Thanks
My idea is to allow the tank start combos. this allows the tank to pace the encounter. threat would also include the amount of damage mitigated for NPCs. No need to do anything spacial for PvP, cause when your biggest heal gets interrupted, your gonna be pissed anyway. adding the shield thing would fit nicely.
*The OP doesn't understand the Paper, Rock, Scissors PvP Ashes will have.*