Your tactics/rules explanation videos are really good, short and precise but still detailed enough. Please keep those coming. Getting my head around these basic rules really helps people like me playing and performing well with empire, which is not a great faction right now if you don't want to spam lvl 4 mages and hellblasters by mastering these basic rules.
Excellent video as always! Me and my friends are probably playing it wrong RaW, but we only allow the charge bonus versus the counter-charge target, so it's even more important to make the right pick :) We also have a similar approach for when you have pursued a target (A) and re-enter combat, and in the enemies turn you get charged in turn by another unit (B), you only get your lance bonus (for example) against the initial target (A), not the one that charged you, even though you technically "count as charging". I don't know how that is supposed to be played though to be fair, but it feels right!
Cheers! Yea I believe if it says you count as charging then you get your charging bonuses. With the exception of impact hits which is only if you move into contact with the unit (and therefore could not target unit B in your example.)
I’d love even a short video on measuring tools for TOW. Specifically charge or visibility markers . Laser pens rulers ect . Ect …… how to use them .. and do we need them ? Tape measure of corse but I’ve heard mixed reviews on the accuracy and availability of other things. I feel YOU. Definitely can deep dive on this. Thank you as always .
Oh, and don't forget the flee reaction in conjunction with counter charge! say you are in a bad spot where you got out-manuevered, and there are 2 boar boys on either side, and your heavy cav unit (ex: chosen knights) is facing a front charge and flank charge from the boars. If there is 12" or more room behind you, its not a bad idea to flee if you can get beyond 19" (assuming no extra orcy buffs) both units. Then, the two boar boy units will fail charge toward you, which A: makes them 'migrate' toward each other and B: may move with different speeds such that one unit is now much further way from the fleeing chosen knights than the other boar boy unit. Then, on the Chosen Knight's turn, (assuming they rally), they reform, march up, and put themselves either: A. with both boar boy units now in the front and/or B. with only one of the boar boy units that has the 16" range needed to declare a charge. Then back to the orc turn, they get a less-good charge setup on you, and your chosen knights counter-charge, and still go first on I more than likely.
Another tid-bit is Drilled. Drilled with Counter-Charge cav units are great! IE dragon princes go from 5x1 to 2x3 formation, march up 24" on your turn. They get charged by enemy heavy cav, they counter charge, drill back to 5x1, and move d3+1 inches. Don't have to wait for your turn to get into a combat formation.
Regarding putting a character on a mount that has counter charge, then putting it in a unit without the rule to give the unit countercharge, I'm fairly sure the unit does not gain the rule. It explicitly says "units that consist entirely of models with this special rule". I wish it worked that way so I could give silverhelms with a BSB in them countercharge, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't.
Good video, certainly shows some of the interesting situations that the rule can throw up. Not sure if it's a good thing that some of the multiple charges can be avoided by getting out of the chargers' front arc this way, gut feel is they should get to go in the flank though not too sure either way. Good that it causes interesting decision making though. Kind of think there is a downside of the rule in the first place in that units that have it are sometimes (maybe even often) not risking anything much by trying and failing charges on their turn as they can usually countercharge anyway if they don't make it and get charged the following turn. Instinct is that you shouldn't be able to countercharge if you failed a charge the previous turn though there may well be negatives to that that I haven't thought of.
Great video. It explains some of the questions that we are seeing quite often. Unfortunately, counter charge is one of the worst thought out rules in the book. For example, RAW you can counter charge against redirections and pursuits. Also, what happens when a unit with impact hits is charged by two units in its front? Do you get impact hits against both?
Against redirections - the rules for redirecting charges specifically state that the only charge reactions available to the target of the redirect are 'hold' and 'flee' Against pursuits - you can use counter charge against units that charge in the front arc as a charge reaction. 2 reasons this can't be used against pursuits are 1 they only 'count as charging' once they have already made contact, so a counter charge would move 0 inches, and 2 counter charge is a charge reaction, at no point during the pursuit can you make use of a charge reaction, so it can not be made. Exactly the same as when a random mover makes contact. Impact hits against multiple units - no why would you? There is nothing in the rule to suggest you would gain more instances of impact hits. You can't use your attacks on the rest of your profile twice just because there are more units, why would impact hits be different?
I believe you can use it for redirected charges. Yes it says you can only hold and flee but the normal rules for charge reactions have no mention of counter charge either. A special rule is something that changes the normal rules. For pursuits no you can’t have any charge reaction against a pursuit move. As for impact hits there is no way to split your impact hits between different targets. If you are in base to base with two units then you choose who to put your impact hits on. Are there even any instances of Impact Hits (2)? I’ve only seen impact hits (1) and impact hits (dice roll).
@@d6wounds yes but have you moved into contact against the unit you did not counter charge? About the pursuit, it does not say that Counter charge reaction has to be done and the declare charge reactions step of the movement phase, just when you are charged you can counter charge. Not the best written rule.
'counter charge' special rule only gives you access to declaring a 'counter charge' charge reaction. Redirected charges however specifically limit the reactions that can be given. Counter charge special rule does nothing in any instance that does not allow the declaration of a charge reaction, because all it does is give you access to the counter charge reaction, it doesn't add extra instances of choosing a reaction.
@@d6wounds I can see it both ways in terms of the reactions to redirected charges at least in terms of how to read the rulebook. I would side with 'That Rat' though as we are told there isn't time for a 'stand and shoot'. Feels wrong to argue that there would be time for 'countercharge' or indeed 'fire and flee' (which you would probably also have to allow if you allowed countercharge) given what we're told in the redirection bit. After all 'countercharge' and 'fire and flee' have the same restriction on them in the first place as 'stand and shoot' about not being able to do them if the chargers are within their movement value.
Interested on your opinion on this scenario. Deliberately created and premeditated if that matters. Enemy dragon screened out from unit with countercharge, except for 1 small dragonshaped footprint landing space. Upon declaring charge, counter charge moves cavalry so there is no longer anywhere for the dragon to actually be placed. Resolved as failed charge or don't move the countercharge unit?
Your tactics/rules explanation videos are really good, short and precise but still detailed enough. Please keep those coming. Getting my head around these basic rules really helps people like me playing and performing well with empire, which is not a great faction right now if you don't want to spam lvl 4 mages and hellblasters by mastering these basic rules.
Excellent video as always! Me and my friends are probably playing it wrong RaW, but we only allow the charge bonus versus the counter-charge target, so it's even more important to make the right pick :) We also have a similar approach for when you have pursued a target (A) and re-enter combat, and in the enemies turn you get charged in turn by another unit (B), you only get your lance bonus (for example) against the initial target (A), not the one that charged you, even though you technically "count as charging". I don't know how that is supposed to be played though to be fair, but it feels right!
Cheers! Yea I believe if it says you count as charging then you get your charging bonuses. With the exception of impact hits which is only if you move into contact with the unit (and therefore could not target unit B in your example.)
@@d6wounds Yea I imagine that is probably how it's supposed to work. It does make it easier to work out the order of operations for sure!
I’d love even a short video on measuring tools for TOW. Specifically charge or visibility markers . Laser pens rulers ect . Ect …… how to use them .. and do we need them ? Tape measure of corse but I’ve heard mixed reviews on the accuracy and availability of other things. I feel YOU. Definitely can deep dive on this. Thank you as always .
AWSOME. I use this rule allot and I just learned 5 new things to consider! Thank you for the insight. You are a wise general ! More please
Great video!
Oh, and don't forget the flee reaction in conjunction with counter charge! say you are in a bad spot where you got out-manuevered, and there are 2 boar boys on either side, and your heavy cav unit (ex: chosen knights) is facing a front charge and flank charge from the boars. If there is 12" or more room behind you, its not a bad idea to flee if you can get beyond 19" (assuming no extra orcy buffs) both units. Then, the two boar boy units will fail charge toward you, which A: makes them 'migrate' toward each other and B: may move with different speeds such that one unit is now much further way from the fleeing chosen knights than the other boar boy unit. Then, on the Chosen Knight's turn, (assuming they rally), they reform, march up, and put themselves either: A. with both boar boy units now in the front and/or B. with only one of the boar boy units that has the 16" range needed to declare a charge. Then back to the orc turn, they get a less-good charge setup on you, and your chosen knights counter-charge, and still go first on I more than likely.
Another tid-bit is Drilled. Drilled with Counter-Charge cav units are great! IE dragon princes go from 5x1 to 2x3 formation, march up 24" on your turn. They get charged by enemy heavy cav, they counter charge, drill back to 5x1, and move d3+1 inches. Don't have to wait for your turn to get into a combat formation.
Awesome rule, and thanks for the advice. Great info video!
These vids are excellent!
Regarding putting a character on a mount that has counter charge, then putting it in a unit without the rule to give the unit countercharge, I'm fairly sure the unit does not gain the rule. It explicitly says "units that consist entirely of models with this special rule".
I wish it worked that way so I could give silverhelms with a BSB in them countercharge, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't.
Yes I think you misunderstood me there. I was just saying some units (characters) can be given the rule by putting them on the correct mount.
Good video, certainly shows some of the interesting situations that the rule can throw up. Not sure if it's a good thing that some of the multiple charges can be avoided by getting out of the chargers' front arc this way, gut feel is they should get to go in the flank though not too sure either way. Good that it causes interesting decision making though.
Kind of think there is a downside of the rule in the first place in that units that have it are sometimes (maybe even often) not risking anything much by trying and failing charges on their turn as they can usually countercharge anyway if they don't make it and get charged the following turn. Instinct is that you shouldn't be able to countercharge if you failed a charge the previous turn though there may well be negatives to that that I haven't thought of.
O yea it’s a really powerful rule. It’s a shame that some knights get it and others don’t.
Great video. It explains some of the questions that we are seeing quite often. Unfortunately, counter charge is one of the worst thought out rules in the book. For example, RAW you can counter charge against redirections and pursuits. Also, what happens when a unit with impact hits is charged by two units in its front? Do you get impact hits against both?
Against redirections - the rules for redirecting charges specifically state that the only charge reactions available to the target of the redirect are 'hold' and 'flee'
Against pursuits - you can use counter charge against units that charge in the front arc as a charge reaction. 2 reasons this can't be used against pursuits are 1 they only 'count as charging' once they have already made contact, so a counter charge would move 0 inches, and 2 counter charge is a charge reaction, at no point during the pursuit can you make use of a charge reaction, so it can not be made. Exactly the same as when a random mover makes contact.
Impact hits against multiple units - no why would you? There is nothing in the rule to suggest you would gain more instances of impact hits. You can't use your attacks on the rest of your profile twice just because there are more units, why would impact hits be different?
I believe you can use it for redirected charges. Yes it says you can only hold and flee but the normal rules for charge reactions have no mention of counter charge either. A special rule is something that changes the normal rules.
For pursuits no you can’t have any charge reaction against a pursuit move.
As for impact hits there is no way to split your impact hits between different targets. If you are in base to base with two units then you choose who to put your impact hits on. Are there even any instances of Impact Hits (2)? I’ve only seen impact hits (1) and impact hits (dice roll).
@@d6wounds yes but have you moved into contact against the unit you did not counter charge? About the pursuit, it does not say that Counter charge reaction has to be done and the declare charge reactions step of the movement phase, just when you are charged you can counter charge. Not the best written rule.
'counter charge' special rule only gives you access to declaring a 'counter charge' charge reaction.
Redirected charges however specifically limit the reactions that can be given.
Counter charge special rule does nothing in any instance that does not allow the declaration of a charge reaction, because all it does is give you access to the counter charge reaction, it doesn't add extra instances of choosing a reaction.
@@d6wounds I can see it both ways in terms of the reactions to redirected charges at least in terms of how to read the rulebook. I would side with 'That Rat' though as we are told there isn't time for a 'stand and shoot'. Feels wrong to argue that there would be time for 'countercharge' or indeed 'fire and flee' (which you would probably also have to allow if you allowed countercharge) given what we're told in the redirection bit. After all 'countercharge' and 'fire and flee' have the same restriction on them in the first place as 'stand and shoot' about not being able to do them if the chargers are within their movement value.
Interested on your opinion on this scenario.
Deliberately created and premeditated if that matters.
Enemy dragon screened out from unit with countercharge, except for 1 small dragonshaped footprint landing space.
Upon declaring charge, counter charge moves cavalry so there is no longer anywhere for the dragon to actually be placed.
Resolved as failed charge or don't move the countercharge unit?
It would be a failed charge as I understand it!
Though unfortunate from a narrative point of view..
Good channel, good videos. Pity the game is a broken mess (dead on arrival) 😢
except it isn't at all. go outside and touch some grass.
@oitoitoi1 cringe genius, look up some newer sayings from google 🤡🤡🤡
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@oitoitoi1 try looking up another outdated saying on google 🤡🤡🤡 are you a blind boomer? GW simp/employee?? Utter 💩