Noel Gallagher is miles ahead of Alex Turner - A RAW interview with Alan McGee - MA Show #90

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  • Опубликовано: 29 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 207

  • @kyleanderson1455
    @kyleanderson1455 Год назад

    Brilliant interview this!

  • @martinmcgrath1985
    @martinmcgrath1985 10 месяцев назад

    Great work Conor. Excellent episode.

  • @laurencesealey4123
    @laurencesealey4123 4 года назад +19

    ​ Star Treatment and the new Arctic Monkeys album in general is far more interesting lyrically than most of the songs Noel's written in the last 20 years tbh.and as far as Doherty goes, he's up there as one of the most literate and personal songwriters out there, people just see him for a smackhead, if you gave him a chance you might be surprised. Not knocking Noel either before you all jump on, just don't think he's as good as Turner or Doherty when it comes to lyrics. He even said himself that lyrics are almost an afterthought for him, which is impressive tbf considering he wrote masterpieces like Live Forever and Slide Away while not having a clue what they were about. Fucking hell he knows how to write good melodies though, something Alex Turner seems to forgotten how to do

    • @ryanlucey1196
      @ryanlucey1196 3 года назад

      Oh fuck off will ya star treatment far more interesting lyrically 😂 only something a condescending posh prick would say

    • @laurencesealey4123
      @laurencesealey4123 3 года назад

      @@ryanlucey1196 i'm a condescending prick but im not posh. And that monkey's album has better lyrics than most of noel's songs end of

    • @ryanlucey1196
      @ryanlucey1196 3 года назад

      @@laurencesealey4123 who gives af about lyrics if the song is shit!! Melody always the most important thing the lyrics are a bonus no point in someone saying something so profound but it sounds shit how is it meant to grab a listener

    • @laurencesealey4123
      @laurencesealey4123 3 года назад +2

      @@ryanlucey1196 depends what you're looking for, sometimes i want something catchy and melodic other times i prefer something more focussed on the lyrics or the actual playing. Whatever floats your boat fella, tbh when i wrote the original comment i was half hoping for an internet argument but i cba now

    • @souldiving4197
      @souldiving4197 3 года назад +2

      @@ryanlucey1196 Alex is written some of the best melodies and riffs ever made, dont be a fool. Lol

  • @biblical1694
    @biblical1694 4 года назад +54

    Noel wrote live forever. Conversation over.

    • @vlobster7660
      @vlobster7660 4 года назад +3

      Correct!

    • @timcomley3241
      @timcomley3241 4 года назад +1

      🙄

    • @MrBluesboy21
      @MrBluesboy21 4 года назад +2

      Spot on!

    •  4 года назад +2

      @Tommy Saxondale now? Why's that exactly? Because it's "old"? Or not "hip"enough for today's dreadful and tactless standards?

    • @DayDay1991
      @DayDay1991 3 года назад +1

      He did my favourite song too

  • @crackingflags101
    @crackingflags101 4 года назад +9

    Both are brilliant in there own way, It stupid to compare these great talents, just listen to the tunes!,

    • @mctv7416
      @mctv7416 2 года назад

      Yeah its all subjective, personal opinions, impossible to compare writers

  •  4 года назад +26

    Pete Doherty is nowhere near as good as oasis. What an absolutely ridiculous comment by the interviewer

    •  4 года назад

      @TheGooners11 you've spelt overrated wrong there pal

    • @butv1874
      @butv1874 4 года назад +3

      The first 2 albums by the libertines were pretty fucking good but ye ur right no where near oasis.

    • @obscurereferences7198
      @obscurereferences7198 4 года назад +2

      The interview seems to really value lyrics. From my experience, the only people who are all about lyrics are those who either don't make music or who don't really understand what makes music so great. Mcgee was spot on, melody is what matters most and melodically, Noel was on another level.

    • @justbreakingballs
      @justbreakingballs 3 года назад

      @@obscurereferences7198 exactly if you are all about lyrics go read poems all day.

    • @briananderson5691
      @briananderson5691 3 года назад

      @Adam Slater are you for real?????????

  • @laussethecat
    @laussethecat 3 года назад +8

    I think AM did what Oasis never managed which is stay consistent album to album over the years, at Noel's best though Alex Turner can't really touch him

    • @marky1888no1
      @marky1888no1 2 года назад

      Lyrically alex turner is better no doubt

    • @neilsun2521
      @neilsun2521 2 года назад

      Noel needed Liam though.

    • @stud105
      @stud105 Год назад

      The cokeheads made two decent albums. overhyped .

    • @michaelmulhall5007
      @michaelmulhall5007 Год назад +1

      @@stud105And all them b sides and changed peoples lives just that really

  • @MrMatt206n
    @MrMatt206n 3 года назад +3

    It’s not really a like for like comparison. The easier more appropriate comparison is Damon Albarn / Morrisey/ Alex Turner. Noel is an instinctive, visceral universal feeling kind of songwriter. Much more McCartney than Lennon school.
    Alex, Damon and Morrisey are more cerebral / observational. It just depends what you like.

    • @thislife3655
      @thislife3655 3 года назад +1

      You’re right; Noel is better.

  • @Wearethewingmakers
    @Wearethewingmakers 3 года назад +1

    I still can’t believe people even mention alex turner in the same sentence as Noel! No comparison

  • @robbiedigital79
    @robbiedigital79 4 года назад +18

    Not listening to an hour of this but as a huge Oasis fan, Turner is right up there as well as a songwriter. Far more diverse and eclectic than Noel

    • @theotroop
      @theotroop 4 года назад +7

      dont think alex turner has ever wrote a song that has made me think “thats an amazing song” they’re all boring an so generic, noel is one of the greatest songwriters of the 90’s.

    • @robbiedigital79
      @robbiedigital79 4 года назад +3

      @@theotroop I agree re: Noel. LOVE Oasis. But doesn't mean you can't also like others. The first 2 Arctics albums are incredible.

    • @theotroop
      @theotroop 4 года назад

      @@robbiedigital79 they are very good albums, compared to music nowadays, compared to oasis and most of the main stream rock/indie it is nowhere near.

    • @tomedwards6208
      @tomedwards6208 3 года назад +1

      @@theotroop Alex turner is far more superior lyrically than Noel.

    • @theotroop
      @theotroop 3 года назад

      @@tomedwards6208 lyrically yeah i could agree noel said he never really cared about lyrics i think, alex turner is a good lyric writer

  • @danielchapman9151
    @danielchapman9151 4 года назад +1

    Good conversation

  • @rossbeake5779
    @rossbeake5779 4 года назад +1

    Great interview, really interesting

  • @believetheword6492
    @believetheword6492 Год назад

    ❤❤❤

  • @MadeOfStone02
    @MadeOfStone02 4 года назад +13

    In terms of how big they are and also the impact they had Oasis piss all over arctic monkeys ten fold although i do like them both

    • @bulliboyz
      @bulliboyz 4 года назад +9

      But Coldplay are bigger than both. And they are fucking rotten 😂

    • @jackblakey3314
      @jackblakey3314 3 года назад +2

      @@bulliboyz Coldplay are bigger than oasis my arse I

    • @MadeOfStone02
      @MadeOfStone02 3 года назад +3

      @@glantanem we will see what music stands the test of time

    • @tonyh8965
      @tonyh8965 3 года назад +3

      Coldplay never made an Impact like oasis. Fk it was literally beatlemania all over again in the 90s. Coldplay sold out let’s be honest. Going out & getting Beyoncé, Rihanna & co On their records They sold their souls and sold out. If oasis had done that I wouldn’t be listening today... but true to their nature they never did! That’s why the Gallagher’s will always be superior.

    • @andrewcole7149
      @andrewcole7149 2 года назад

      @@tonyh8965 And Coldplay quite literally admit to the whole creation of this era. Oasis quite literally made it their "right place, right time" and everyone else around and to follow (Blur and Radiohead included) were quite happy to enjoy the wave. At least Coldplay admit it. Blur used it to boost themselves up to a near (intheir eyes) equal footing for a short period and Radiohead would have been a pretty good Indie band but the whole scene at that time meant it became much more mainstream. Every band including the likes of Manics benefitted from the whole scene which was driven by Oasis. The Oasis phenomen meant lots of bands got a lot more (deserved) airplay than they would have and thus deservedly got more exposure to a larger audience. Every other band in the UK was an also-ran-to or doing well because of Oasis in the 94-96-98 UK scene.
      There was a bigger market for "Oasis haters" than any other band could count as fans of their music. That is how much they dominated...........and a vast majority of those "Oasis haters" have to stop their toes tapping or inner singing the songs to this day.

  • @adoredbeats2266
    @adoredbeats2266 4 года назад +7

    Alex turner and peter Doherty are great but not Noel level at all

  • @Beans360
    @Beans360 4 года назад +9

    I personally think Alex Turner comes up with better guitar riffs. Lyrics and melody wise wise Noel wins. I feel Arctic Monkeys didnt capitalise as much as Oasis did during their first 2 albums. I've herd Alex Turner say he turned down big gigs during their first 2 album's because they didn't feel ready but Oasis just went for it and said yes to anything despite Oasis being better live later on when their success calmed down.

    • @scorpioscots9692
      @scorpioscots9692 4 года назад +1

      I agree turner is much more talented and original I love oasis but Noel really did nick too much off others and didn't really change it been an oasis fan since day one but when Artic Monkeys came out with their first album it was like listing to RATAM for the first time ✌️

    • @Beans360
      @Beans360 4 года назад

      @@dondamon4669 I don't wear thongs.

    • @manuelgallardo7694
      @manuelgallardo7694 Год назад

      Noel gives no Fock bout guitar
      He is a genius song writer
      A band without great songs is nothing.
      The song writer owns it
      He is the boss,
      I know't I mean? 😎

  • @cleftturnip7774
    @cleftturnip7774 Год назад

    Squid coffee went flibberdy flip."do you know what i mean"?

  • @chrisdvsmith999
    @chrisdvsmith999 4 года назад +2

    Where’s the bit about turner?

  • @joaomanuel2
    @joaomanuel2 4 года назад +3

    Yeah, Alex never stole songs from other artists

    • @trunksstuff3112
      @trunksstuff3112 4 года назад +5

      Literally all the biggest and best artists ever have done this. The beatles, Led Zeppelin, Bowie...the list goes on. Noel Gallagher is a better songwriter than turner. Its just the truth.

    • @joaomanuel2
      @joaomanuel2 4 года назад +1

      @@dondamon4669 butthurt blind cringe fans xD

    • @divineteke139
      @divineteke139 4 года назад +1

      Arctic monkeys ripped off black sabbath though

    • @joaomanuel2
      @joaomanuel2 4 года назад

      @@divineteke139 Alex stole a riff. Noel stole so much more

    • @tonyh8965
      @tonyh8965 3 года назад +2

      @@joaomanuel2 in 20 years no one will care about the Arctic’s in the same way they do about oasis. Oasis crossed over to all ages and have a hundred songs, anthems etched in people’s memories. We are yet to see artics give us a live forever, champagne supernova, don’t look back in anger etc... where virtually every single person knows the lyrics even if your not a fan... that’s the difference. Comparing oasis and the artics is like comparing The Beatles to The Darkness lol

  • @bautistamolinari
    @bautistamolinari 4 года назад +3

    The thing is Noel's best songs are copies from other artist while Alex is more versatile and I've never heard anyone saying that he ripped of some other artist, but Noel had more acttitude and begin his music in a specific time for England so he made a huge impact on people that no many musicians can, so I guess he "wins" even tho Alex has better and more original lyrics and melodies (they are two of my favourite songwritters of all time, they changed my life in many different ways so I don't see why to compare them)

    • @jackblakey3314
      @jackblakey3314 3 года назад +1

      One wrote live forever , end of story

    • @andychinn3671
      @andychinn3671 2 года назад

      clearly have not listened to NGS last 9 albums

  • @pierceobrien6360
    @pierceobrien6360 4 года назад +6

    I’m avin Alex Turner & Pete Doherty every day of the week, when they first come out with Arctics & The Libs they were bang on the money just as much as NG I think 👊👊

  • @josmith8205
    @josmith8205 2 года назад

    MAGIC INTERVIEW

  • @Mauruud
    @Mauruud 9 месяцев назад

    The amount of good albums alex has made as such young age comapred to noel that hit trough at the end of the 20s. Alex has many many more years that nole to create good songs

  • @boonie3
    @boonie3 4 года назад +6

    alex turner couldn't hold Noel's guitar pick

    • @evanphillips570
      @evanphillips570 4 года назад +19

      Turner is a far superior guitarist and lyricist than noel, noel just wrote more classics

    • @jackblakey3314
      @jackblakey3314 3 года назад

      @@evanphillips570 live forever > do I wanna know , speaks for itself

    • @tonyh8965
      @tonyh8965 3 года назад

      @@evanphillips570 wtf has any of that got to do with song writing? I know a guy down my local mic night that is in a different league to alex Turner in terms of guitaring. Ultimately it comes down to riffs & whilst Noel has nicked a few he’s also created a few iconic riffs. I would dare to say Noel had more iconic riffs than Turner so doesn’t that make him the better guitarist? People get too caught up in the technical aspect... a great song writer writes tunes, easy or not that people remember & Noel has written some memorable solos too like the ‘champagne supernova’ solo, live forever etc... it’s about the whole thing not just one or two elements & Noel in that aspect is levels above alex Turner.

    • @souldiving4197
      @souldiving4197 3 года назад +1

      Lmao Alex would destroy Noel. Why are we even having this discussion, it’s embarrassing.

    • @souldiving4197
      @souldiving4197 3 года назад

      @@evanphillips570 lmao yep. And there science to back your remark as well.

  • @Noisehead101
    @Noisehead101 3 года назад

    It really just depends what you’re looking for. The guy was alluding to Pete Doherty and Alex Turner being better wordsmiths, which is most likely the truth, so if you’re really into that then I’d understand why you might get more from their music than Noel’s. If you’re looking for universal songs crafted in a way that appeal to masses across the world, then Noel is your man. It’s all subjective.

  • @selinakyle2368
    @selinakyle2368 Год назад +1

    Look at all the angry AM fangurls in the comments!!! 🤦‍♀️

  • @simonshotter8960
    @simonshotter8960 4 года назад +4

    Who’s Alex Turner?

    • @BillyF752
      @BillyF752 4 года назад

      Frontman of the arctic monkeys basically did what Noel and Liam do in oasis but for am

    • @simonshotter8960
      @simonshotter8960 4 года назад

      @@BillyF752 no man... he didn’t, in no way..

    • @BillyF752
      @BillyF752 4 года назад +1

      @@simonshotter8960 he sang and wrote the songs. In oasis Liam sang and Noel wrote the songs therefore Alex does what Noel and Liam did in oasis

    • @simonshotter8960
      @simonshotter8960 4 года назад +2

      @@BillyF752 ease up, he never did.
      He sung about half as well as Liam, about 1% of the front man and his song writing ability doesn’t even match Noels B sides. Take a seat

    • @BillyF752
      @BillyF752 4 года назад +1

      @@simonshotter8960 I wasn’t comparing them skill level I was just explaining what he does in the band

  • @brocktonma.1816
    @brocktonma.1816 Год назад

    I cannot understand the guy at the beginning🤷‍♂️🇺🇸

  • @waynesilverman3048
    @waynesilverman3048 Год назад

    I think Julian Casablanca s never disappoints

  • @MadeOfStone02
    @MadeOfStone02 4 года назад +12

    24:35 pete doherty is no where near NG on songwriting hahahahaha

    • @agster1907
      @agster1907 4 года назад +1

      There will be no further argument after my statement.
      Don't you dare.

    • @MadeOfStone02
      @MadeOfStone02 4 года назад

      @@agster1907 it’s clear as day, stop crying

  • @shhtha
    @shhtha 3 года назад

    Who is Pete?

  • @saughall1
    @saughall1 2 года назад

    He's box office Mcgee man

  • @MrBluesboy21
    @MrBluesboy21 4 года назад +1

    Noel can fart a B side, anytime he want to.

    • @tinandgonic3927
      @tinandgonic3927 3 года назад

      😂

    • @stud105
      @stud105 Год назад

      But he Couldnt put bass on the third album because he was so coked up. two album wonders still hyped by coked up 40 year olds!

  • @rd7208
    @rd7208 4 года назад +9

    Noels a one trick pony, albeit a ridiculously fantastic one trick he had, or did 15 years ago. Alex Turner is a much much more versatile and completely different musician. Turner is for the proper music lovers.

    • @Yorknomad
      @Yorknomad 4 года назад

      Noel is still writing great tunes

    • @rd7208
      @rd7208 4 года назад +4

      @@Yorknomad he should start releasing them then.

    • @Yorknomad
      @Yorknomad 4 года назад

      Maybe you should start listening properly

    • @rd7208
      @rd7208 4 года назад

      @@Yorknomad I will do when he starts releasing “great” music again, Glen.

    • @adammartin7007
      @adammartin7007 3 года назад +5

      A proper music lover wouldn't claim Noel is a one trick pony. Compare Oasis's 1st and last singles for example. I don't think Turner is in the same caste.

  • @MattRobson1
    @MattRobson1 4 года назад +11

    I would say Turner is probably just ahead. Just personal preference though.

    •  4 года назад +1

      Not a chance. He's not written a decent melody in nearly a decade. Absolute tosh.......just personal preference

    • @MattRobson1
      @MattRobson1 4 года назад +1

      @ Fair play mate, I'm more of a lyrics guy I guess? I don't know. I like Turner's quirkiness.

    • @michaelhenry8072
      @michaelhenry8072 4 года назад +6

      Matt Robson Surely the melody is more important than the lyrics tho?

    • @dickodickinson3833
      @dickodickinson3833 4 года назад +4

      As a sheffielder I love Alex’s Lyrics as they resonate more with me. But Growing up with Oasis they were on another planet to the Arctic Monkeys. Noel Gallagher is a prolific songwriter who when he’s gone will sit comfortably with Lennon McCartney and Dylan. Oasis were a movement of millions and no British band has reached that level of success since they set the bar too high for others to reach.

    • @aidanwhelband7967
      @aidanwhelband7967 4 года назад

      Dicko Dickinson to be fair I’m not a fan of them, but Coldplay are way more successful in America than oasis ever were, There have definitely been British bands that have been bigger since.

  • @marky1888no1
    @marky1888no1 2 года назад

    Na people were talented , he was lucky to be there

  • @johnny5805
    @johnny5805 3 года назад +5

    I had to Google who Alex Turner was. That says enough.

    • @IrishLoveSpud
      @IrishLoveSpud 3 года назад

      So arctic monkeys have been around 15 years and you didn’t know who Alex Turner was?

    • @tonyh8965
      @tonyh8965 3 года назад +1

      @@IrishLoveSpud indie fans do but the general person on the street into whatever’s on the radio they wouldn’t know him. Artics never crossed over to the general public like oasis did… when you say Liam or Noel Gallagher your nan would know them even if she’s dislikes them. They crossed over to every generation not just the indie youth. Oasis are on a different planet to the artics in terms of sales, popularity, personality, hits. Oasis have sold 84million records to date, wonderwall is the first song from the 1990s to stream 1billion times, they had 8 number 1 albums & 8 number 1 singles. Knebworth etc… All this in 15 years. Artics have sold 20m & been around not far off 15 years. It’s fair to say oasis are a different league it’s embarrassing anyone would even compare them.

    • @IrishLoveSpud
      @IrishLoveSpud 3 года назад

      @@tonyh8965 Yeah I agree with all that Oasis are ahead in every aspect, I just would have thought this person would know who the lead singer is arctic monkeys is.

    • @tonyh8965
      @tonyh8965 3 года назад

      @@IrishLoveSpud most people don’t. I like the Arctic’s but most people in general haven’t a clue who he is that aren’t into indie. He’s never crossed over. I mean some people know who the artics are but they aren’t one of those bands who hit mega big outside the uk or even in the uk in terms of popular music like let’s say Coldplay or oasis in their prime who have had those mega hits, anthems etc…

    • @saritajoshi1737
      @saritajoshi1737 3 года назад +1

      Yeah says enough about your ignorance lol

  • @souldiving4197
    @souldiving4197 3 года назад +3

    Not only is Alex Turner a better musician & songwriter but he’s the best songwriter on the planet by far. Only a fool would disagree. I’m sure this band is great. It’s not about who starts first, it’s about who does it better.

    • @laussethecat
      @laussethecat 3 года назад +3

      Tell me you only listen to surface level mainstream indie without telling me you only listen to surface level mainstream indie 😂

    • @souldiving4197
      @souldiving4197 3 года назад

      @@laussethecat everything's up there. read it a second time if you need to.

    • @darrenh0218
      @darrenh0218 Год назад +1

      Leonard Cohen, bob Dylan. ....

  • @RichardSmith-bf1fg
    @RichardSmith-bf1fg 3 года назад +2

    NG hasn't written a good song in about 10 years

    • @harrylaingross5983
      @harrylaingross5983 3 года назад +6

      If I Had A Gun, Dying Of The Light and Dead In The Water was written by someone else then..

    • @tinandgonic3927
      @tinandgonic3927 3 года назад

      @@harrylaingross5983 the first 2 are older than 10 years tho. Just never recorded. Dead in the water is fantastic but also head and shoulders about anything else he's done lately

    • @andychinn3671
      @andychinn3671 2 года назад +1

      no just 10 number 1 albums

  • @jamesmonoghan1281
    @jamesmonoghan1281 3 года назад

    He changes the stories every time! Grifter!!

  • @vlobster7660
    @vlobster7660 4 года назад +3

    Put Noel Gallagher's songs against the overrated junkie Docherty and there's only one winner

    • @James_Lo
      @James_Lo 4 года назад

      Yeah, Docherty and The Libertines.

    • @vlobster7660
      @vlobster7660 4 года назад

      @@James_Lo They are that good they never sold our arenas around the world...bunch of fuckin posh boy junkies

    • @vlobster7660
      @vlobster7660 4 года назад

      @Adam Slater Doherty had no cultural impact and no musical talent.He was filthy looking and a third rate poet.All he had was a tortured junkie schtick that people like you bought into

    • @vlobster7660
      @vlobster7660 4 года назад

      @Adam Slater DM was the 90s Never Mind the Bollocks.Doherty could only dream of being so influential

    • @vlobster7660
      @vlobster7660 4 года назад

      @Adam Slater It depends on how you define a song. If it's melody Noel Gallagher is up there with McCartney.If you want to compare lyrics then that's up to you because you're kidding yourself on if you think lyrics are as important as melody and sound.

  • @tonyh8965
    @tonyh8965 3 года назад +4

    Arctic’s are one of the most overrated bands. Oasis crossed over to every age group. Everyone knows wonderwall, don’t look back in a anger, stand by me etc... how many songs crossed over to the general public of the Arctic’s where everyone knows the lyrics? Like I said oasis - wonderwall, the Beatles - hey Jude, queen - bohemian rapacity. Arctic’s - Not one song. Conversation over.

    • @Ennui.
      @Ennui. 3 года назад +1

      Lmao okay
      Go watch their set at TRNSMT from 2018, the crowd is singing songs from 15 years ago word for word

    • @tonyh8965
      @tonyh8965 3 года назад

      @@Ennui. yeah a specific group of ppl going there for them. Outside of those people no one cares. they haven’t got one great single.

    • @Ennui.
      @Ennui. 3 года назад

      @@tonyh8965 right...
      i bet you look good on the dancefloor
      505
      Do i wanna know...
      Pretty much everyone knows these...
      Also if no one cares, how come their debut album was the fastest selling album in UK history?
      And then pretty much every album after it debuted at number 1...
      You might not respect them as a band, but that's probably cause you haven't really given them a proper listen...
      The only reason why you could say they're overrated is because of their massively popular 5th album "AM" where you'd hear "Do i wanna know" everyday on the radio so many times that it was annoying...
      I really suggest you to listen to their albums one by one,from start to finish and pay attention to the lyrics...

    • @tonyh8965
      @tonyh8965 3 года назад

      @@Ennui. I liked artics first 2 albums but after that... hmmm but as I said there’s having singles like ‘I bet you look good on the dance floor’ ... then there’s ‘champagne supernova’ ‘wonderwall’ ‘don’t look beck in anger’ ‘whatever’ and that’s just 4 songs. Those songs especially 2-3 crossed over to the masses young & old where as Artics hit the youth only in the main. I’m just being honest that they don’t have any singles that 20 years from now will be remembered like oasis’ are. It’s not even a debate. Alex has some good lyrics definitely but I’m not sure he has an anthem in him.

    • @laussethecat
      @laussethecat 3 года назад

      @@tonyh8965 Noel is a better songwriter but that's a wank argument mate, some of the shittest pop drivel ever written have billions of plays (e.g gangnam style) doesn't make it good

  • @martinmcgrath1985
    @martinmcgrath1985 Год назад

    Turner a better songwriter than noel.

  • @stud105
    @stud105 Год назад +1

    McGee is biased here, lets not forget.