Communicative Language Teaching: Jeremy Harmer and Scott Thornbury | The New School
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- The Communicative Approach is so well-established, it's more or less the default methodology for second language teaching. But where did it come from? How has it evolved? Where does it work? What are its strengths and its weaknesses?
In this wide-ranging conversation, in which Scott Thornbury and Jeremy Harmer interview each other, they will address these questions from the point of view of their own experience, convictions and doubts -- and they invite you to do the same!
Scott Thornbury, associate professor at the MA in Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages at The New School (www.newschool.e..., is a prolific author of books and articles for teachers and students and a tireless presenter at international ELT conferences. His 'Natural Grammar' and 'Teaching Unplugged', have won the British Council's "ELTon" Award for Innovation, the top award in the industry (in 2004 and 2010, respectively). Thornbury is also the series editor for the Cambridge Handbooks for Language Teachers.
Jeremy Harmer, faculty in The New School MATESOL program, is known throughout the ELT world for his books on teaching methodology, particularly the classic texts, How to Teach English and The Practice of English Language Teaching. He is the general editor of Longman's "How-To" series and host of the Teacher Development section of the ELT Forum website. He frequently leaves his home base in England to train teachers and to speak at conferences around the world.
Location: Theresa Lang Community and Student Center, Arnhold Hall
Wednesday, July 10, 2013 at 6:00 pm
This is gold. Getting to know personal stories of these famous writers is just out of this world, an amazing feeling
This is amazing for a developing teacher! Thank you for making this available. It's a jewel for those of us studying and progressing.
I don't get tired of watching this video over and over again..... and there's this question that I ask myself very often.... what have we gained, and what have we lost??
Proximity to the cognition process of thinking means that people in the room would get you the content you need for the next words. It is a red mark correcting people. It is also an enlightenment on how people created grammar in the 1970s.
Some highlights for me:
At 39:45 Jeremy quotes Michael Swan as saying "The danger of the communicative approach is we spend too much time doing and not enough time learning." In rebuffing this, Scott refers to strong versions of the theory (using the language to learn it) and Krashen's influence on him. At 53:25 Scott quotes Swan from the same paper as saying "The best information gap is that which already exists between students in the classroom." in discussing how to overcome the challenges of TBL,
and?
Re: "The danger of the communicative approach is we spend too much time doing and not enough time learning."
The bias here is that conscious study or what I've called 'cognitive hand-holding' IS learning. We think we know what learning is and can induce it when in fact we're only beginning to understand it. Cognitive science has long since shown that conscious attention may in fact, impede learning. Are you familiar with Stephen Krashen's Comprehensible Input Hypothesis or what he's written about the benefits of (un-structured) Free Voluntary Reading?
With regard to Thornton and the 'default methodology', CLT, you may want to read this: forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=111508
Thank you so much!
how can I link the inquiry based approach to second language learning...is it acceptable to do this approach with FLT ? thought this approach is just for science teaching ...
I'm a one year studying English I love this language. My dream speak with fluency. I'm from Brazil, and love The EUA.
Thumbs up if you are doing the Methodology assingment
Anaïs Comabella thumbs down if you don't know how to do it
Iris Milán I AM TOTALI AGRI WITH YU.
+Anaïs Comabella Hi, are you doing the MA TESOL? I'm interested in taking it myself but in the UK.
+Chivas6 Hi, What does MA mean? Could you please tell me? Thank you.
羅蘋
MA means ‘’Master of the Arts''.
Sophie seems to be a new rising star. Her voice, so deep and sensitive, so sweet, her artistic nature and will definitely bring her success. It was such a pleasure to listen to and see you.
Thank you for reminding us of the value, history, evolution, and challenge of the communicative approach.
Aaą
Thanks for making these discussions / debates available online. Great audio and video, btw. Communicative approach still rules, but my best approach is blending in different methods.
Many thanks for having this programme.
At 45:09 , the speaker refers to a textbook that he first encountered in 1986, which then became a runaway bestseller and very influential. What book is he referring to? Please forgive my ignorance --- I'm completely new to this topic.
I was wondering why he didn't say. I think he's talking about New Headway by John and Liz Soars.
Thank you for this. Great help especially preparing activities, materials and esp. tasks for blended learning in the midst of this pandemic this coming school year.
I use Jeremy Harmer for teaching, it's a great book.
+Angel Ucan Dzul I mean Harmer's publication ;)
haha...it's implied...:D
For me the communicative method is simply great and practical for the classroom and for our dear students to learn a second or foreign language, namely English in our case.
I wonder if these two speak fluently any language except English. From the way the speak about it, I draw a sad conclusion that they don't. It seems they've completely forgotten that the success in learning a language depends on learner's motivation much more that on any approach to teaching. In other words, you study the language in the classroom, but you will learn it outside it.
Harmer is fluent in Spanish. I don't know about Thornbury. You're not wrong, but they are specifically talking about methodology, rather than the wider question of factors influential on success rates in teaching languages.
I love Jeremy's books about teaching ESL!
Merewetherful his books are OK but he's an alcoholic. surprisingly he's not drunk in this video
so what?
can u plz give me some of his books ?
@@adamuppsala1931 He's certainly buzzed
Great to hear my teachers again.
Great talk! Really excellent overview which helped to tie up a lot of loose ends.
Great video! Is there a transcript available somewhere?
Two of my favorite authors
Scott is a great teacher of teachers!
I love it
Such as you are pouring some new energy on my mind
please use here punctually in the CC
Great talk about CLT
Learning by doing. Production tasks instead of receptive tasks.
The very famous book by Jeremy Harmer is The Practice of English Language Teaching (include a CD). Hope you can find it.
Hi, is the book about CLT or it offers other ways of teaching English as a foreign language?
great people with great experience
What an inspiration! Thank you!
Scott talks about the academics working on the communicative approach (CA) in the early days. One e.g. was K Johnson who has keynote talk on the TESOLacademic site Jeremy talks about going to any teacher in Thailand and asking what the CA is about. I did some research on this with a Thai colleagues - see Jarvis, H. and Atsilarat, S. (2004). ‘Shifting paradigms: from a communicative to a context-based approach.’ Asian EFL Journal. Vol.6, No.4. (fee from the website)
This made me realise how dogma is really a radical form of CLT pushed by Thornbury
Scott is a great teacher .
Great talk about CLT.
Thanks for sharing. From Indonesia, I can learn a lot.
Jeremy Harmer speaks my language.
Such great innovators!
Thank you
:) Could we have a list of the works + authors referenced in the talk ?
Hi Declan, I think the course book that Scott refers to is 'Headway'. Here's a link: bebcblog.wordpress.com/2011/10/17/what-does-headway-mean-to-you/.
very useful and insightful
See 2008 TESOL Panel: Teaching Grammar in Today's Classroom-Introduction: Why Teach Grammar? Parts 1 & 2 for a different perspective on grammar.
Quite workable a lecture
.
I really enjoyed it. ❤️
That was a lot to take in! Nevertheless, it really kickstarted my brain. 😀
Shall we question this communicative approach promoted by scholars and academics since you all say that everyone claims to be a communicative teacher, but in actual fact what people do is formal instruction, grammar, drillings and so on. What is this force that drives teachers, educational authorities textbook writers, and syllabus designers to play on this familiar and fairly save ground than to plunge into this crazy natural talk in the classroom?
Maybe reality lies somewhere here; rather than criticizing teachers and adopting a paternalistic and prescriptive methodology, we should look at why teachers and others dont abide to this approach. Is in it the reality of the classroom?
I couldn't agree more.
You can't talk about foreign language theory without having learned several foreign languages yourself. Steven Krashen can. Look up his stuff if you really want to teach languages effectively.
Nice and useful program
This is inspiring and it is clear that we've come so far in EFL, unfortunately in British schools all the languages (German, French, Spanish, etc) are taught using Grammar Translation and Direct Method. Children do a lot of grammar but can't speak. Shame
Lola Freeman really? i thought this was just in spanish speaking countries
We use Communicative approach to teach English as a Foreign Language, but when it comes to teaching other languages at schools it is Grammar Translation.
Lola Freeman it makes sense because english its easier than the languages u mentioned about, even when u first teach u already know the students have a mnimum knowledge of english, on the one hand when u learn another language u dont know nothing
A person can't speak if he/she doesn't understand the syntax of the target language. It is important to get solid grammar basis and then put it slowly into practice. Students must look for opportunities to practice speaking. They can't learn to speak in the classroom. They have to be realistic and understand how languages are learnt.
I don't seem to understand this approach at all. The more videos I watch, the more confused I get. Would this approach prepare you well enough to pass any of the Cambridge English Exams? I doubt that they would not penalise you for your mistakes.
Build your confidence and adherence to what you know that can improve your paradigm
The presenter is mischievously sweet 😊.
There are a lot of Apps that seems to me they are using Grammar - Translation method! It is kind of wierd though!
A 4 weeks course to become a teacher? here in argentina we study for 4 YEARS and that's just the basic title of the careeer
Same in Bulgaria.
Does anyone know which textbook they're talking about at 45:00?
It's just a guess, but they might be talking about the "English File" series, which has an overseas version called "American English File".
Hi Luciana, I think the book he's referring to is the 'Headway' series by John and Liz Soars
Luciana's Languages they are talking about Headway
Exam !!! At International House of London in Uruguay
thump up for the great job.
#free - the "r" makes all the difference ;-)
Two guys with a funny accent discussing learning a language! :) Some of the stuff they say is good though!
11:39 - performative
and I thought TBA approach is a fluteless one! Amazing debate.
fluteless?
Autonomy is rare coin to be found in learners nowdays! The majority of them are looking for ready made recepie for satisfying their needs!
He confuses me when he answer questions indirectly and implicitly is he trying the communicative stuff on us ! -_-
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These two are typical of the problem with language learning tuition
Do these two speak foreign languages?
Yes, Scott speaks a B2 level of Spanish
33:30
AAAAAMMMMMMMAAAAAAZZZZZZIIIIIINNNNGGGGGG
They are my EFL Gods !!!!!!!! (Don't tell my former DoS I said that :D )
these two? they're not brilliant... none of them tackle real actual classroom teaching, where you have to work with 30+ students, put grades, etc.
He said future tense, wrong mate ahhhh wrong mate ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, its an aspect mate , nah nah nah, he's a right muppet, it uses an auxiliary to aid the verb in changing its meaning, what a proper knob he is.
+Lynn limbert Pardon?
Lynn limbert you're perfectly right. there's no future tense in English.
Could they have spoken up a little bit?
I think it's how it was uploaded, rather than the volume at which they were speaking.
communicative is an umbrella term that covers many different teaching methods that do the opposite of what most language teachers do from here to Europe to Asia--TEACH LANGUAGE AS GRAMMAR RULES ! There could be nothing more BORING and FATAL to developing oral fluency ! Why language teaching is based on nothing other than what was done and has been done and always been done and IT DOESNT WORK ! Grammar -Translation is to learn the LITERATURE of another language and culture; building fluency in L2 means meaningful input + 1 . . focus the learning on MEANING and responding accordingly and not stopping to think of stupid grammar rules. Also depends on ones learning style, but to stop and try to remember or fit an utterance into some RULE stifles natural communication ! As one doesnt read the dictionary like a novel; one uses grammar rules are a REFERENCE ONLY ! Speak from day 1 and speak nothing but the L2.
Easily said than done. In monolingual classes, especially with teenagers, it's very difficult to make them speak for many reasons - some are shy, some are afraid of mistakes, and some don't care. They do not want to participate and that's all. Most of the times they switch to their mother tongue as it is easier for them to communicate. I disagree that grammar rules are stupid. Not all of us a privileged to study English in an English-speaking country by a native speaker. So we need to figure out how the language works and we use grammar books.
International House is terrible...wouldnt recommend it to anyone
I know....I wouldn't either
Getting past all the difficulty Scott had in just saying that he and others think Krashen's theory is the reason why the 'methodology' in language learning has been lost, I do think he made a good case for the old school method of browbeating students into thinking that learning the nuances of grammar was necessary at the beginning, middle and end of language learning. Babies can learn more than one language without having a clue about the finer details of learning a language. The finer details come into play eventually. I do think most would want to learn a language for practical reasons like being able to talk to native speakers of the country they have migrated to or where they intend to travel to. If the success rates for language learners came about after a change in methodology, then surely it is a win-win for everyone.
... and it seems to me that the comments by both speakers on technology right at the end go some way to endorse my on-going work which advocates a shift from “Computer Assisted Language Learning” or CALL to Mobile Assisted Language Use or MALU - this was most recently articulated in Jarvis, H. and Achilleos, M. (2013). ‘From computer assisted language learning (CALL) to mobile assisted language use.’ TESL-EJ. Vol. 16. No. 4. pp. 1-18. Available free (not fee) from the journal homepage.
Communicative approach is what I've been wanting to do since I started teaching
Thank you for sharing !!!
IT's good for teachers
gooood!
1970
Ibrahim Bappy After Grammar Translation , Audiolingual Method.
Recommended by Tesol: Communicative Language Teaching