How to Make MIDI Brass Sound Realistic

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 22 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 103

  • @anopirsten7565
    @anopirsten7565 3 года назад +52

    "leave enough space to breathe"
    Brass Players: That's a funny joke

    • @Potatointhehood
      @Potatointhehood 3 года назад +5

      0/10 unrealistic. Brass players don't need to breathe. They practiced that

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +5

      It's not only funny because it's something writers often "forget"... but it was insulting that he thinks we can't play more than half a bar before we're dead.

  • @WillsJazzLoft
    @WillsJazzLoft 2 года назад +3

    This represents a good first step. It's obvious from some of the responses that there's more

  • @Honky_Grapster
    @Honky_Grapster 2 года назад +1

    I remember someone telling me to write MIDI drums parts with realistic sticking - not striking three surfaces at the one time if you only have two hands etc. The advice here about breathing and the other behaviours of horn players really humanises the performance. Great tut

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +1

      Similar to teaching a piano player how to write for guitar. You can write any combination of keys for a piano and as long as your fingers can spread the required distance, you use a pedal to hold notes, and you have the dexterity to move very quickly and accurately, you can play a huge array of chords and inversions of them. However, a guitar has strings that limit the specific arrangement of notes in a chord and also limit the number of notes within a chord. You can't strum more than six notes on a six-string... and you can't play two notes chromatically adjacent if not using an open string or some clever fretwork. It can be incredibly difficult for a piano player to accurately write for virtual guitar if they've never played one or aren't proficient enough to identify where a certain riff or chord would be nearly impossible for a real guitarist to perform. And that's to say nothing of techniques such as string muting.
      This video was a bit insulting... unrealistically imagining horn players with tiny lungs. We can hold notes for longer than half a bar, I assure you!

    • @Elriri
      @Elriri Год назад +1

      I mean you can play three parts, counting the kick pedal.

    • @garyloewenthal
      @garyloewenthal 9 месяцев назад

      @@ElririOr have two drummers

  • @ivywoodxrecords
    @ivywoodxrecords 2 года назад +5

    Mixing and EQ starts at 13:30

  • @liambrownpianoproductions3445
    @liambrownpianoproductions3445 4 года назад +21

    great video idea. I feel that the sample community needs better brass then the current options as the samples themselves don't really sound like a live band at all. The closest people to that are the Swing series but they don't care about their customers or feedback, which is a real shame as its nearly there it just needs a playable legato patch for everything and a few more articulations and it would be amazing. I want a really good trumpet library that has every mute and a great sound unlike sample modelling that just sounds great out of the box thats how a real library should work.

    • @_emanmodnar
      @_emanmodnar 3 года назад +4

      Yeah, brass still sounds like kazoos after decades of MIDI 🙄 I wish there were more colors to add the arrangements! What about attack- and release types, introvert/extrovert going soft, harsh, metallic, mellow, airy/dusty, using flutter, with/without vibrato.. different sounds between sounds for big orchestral sections vs. smaller sections.. How about adding more different mute types besides the harmon mute samples you always see .. cup, straight (metalic and wooden), all of these with/without plunger, bucket.. even the harmon has so many more different ways of sounding. And what about adding more instruments like euphonium, barytones, tenorhorns, Bb and Eb-cornets, alto trombones.. Even though the samples in the video is a nice try, I wouldn’t ever use these bad sounding samples for anything else than drafting, and I really don’t feel inspired by the sounds of it 😔

    • @minder01
      @minder01 Год назад

      CineBrass missed where this was their problem.

  • @mazely
    @mazely 4 года назад +5

    Missed an explanation about cc1 automation and how it differs from c11. It's crucial. 👍 Mike Verta, among others, explains well how to automate cc1 with brass instruments. I find very useful your videos and sheets about mixing and mastering!

    • @KariKauree
      @KariKauree Год назад

      You wouldn't happen to remember in which video this Mike talks about that? That would be most helpful

    • @keefazstudio
      @keefazstudio 5 месяцев назад

      @@KariKauree cc1 is modwheel that controls vibrato I think, cc11 would be the velocity

  • @obrapro
    @obrapro 2 года назад

    Thx for the info. Using tracks to show musicians what I want to do, so this helps.

  • @WillsJazzLoft
    @WillsJazzLoft 2 года назад +4

    Amazing! Although the technique seems very intricate, I believe it can be adapted for my particular DAW/VST suite. Some of this will likely also have practical application when I want to create brass and woodwind ensembles/horn sections on my Casio WK-200. As with many arranger keyboards that have been on the market the factory brass and woodwind ensemble presets can sound very underwhelming , ' cheesy ', and synthy. Your video has helped me to understand why that is and how to tweak and hack such things. And I will very likely take tone layering and editing more seriously. I got here by entering the phrase, how to create realistic orchestra hits using actual brass and woodwind instruments. Although I didn't understand everything you were doing I think that I got the basic idea. Thank you much.

    • @greg1569
      @greg1569 Год назад

      lol it's not intricate, it's basic composing for ensembles and basic music production.

  • @Bezowinz
    @Bezowinz 4 года назад +6

    I'm having trouble getting Session Horns Pro to respond to expression like I expect. In the Kontakt settings, I assign expression to the mod wheel. But the results are quite static. If I start with a soft note, I get only a bit more volume pushing the mod wheel all the way up. And the same starting with I louder note.
    I wish SHP had actual dynamics like the better brass libraries. Or I wish I could find out how to get expression to work similarly.
    I'll try it the way you show.

  • @tasenova2717
    @tasenova2717 4 года назад +53

    Next Idea: How to Make MIDI guitar sound realistic

    • @TheFuneralFrog
      @TheFuneralFrog 4 года назад +20

      Pro tip: you can't, find someone who can play

    • @autobotsNdecepticons
      @autobotsNdecepticons 4 года назад +2

      Watch Synthmania for that. ruclips.net/video/bmQETKtz1Ws/видео.html

    • @dooshnukem32
      @dooshnukem32 4 года назад +3

      For guitar, try the Odin VST by Solemn Tones. It operates like Getgood Drums or Superior Drummer, but for guitar - pre-recorded real samples of a dry guitar that can run through a VST amp or a real amp. It's not a replacement for the real thing, but with a little velocity, timing, and articulation love, it's a fantastic tool to have in your setup. They also make a bass version called Loki and it's every bit as useful as Odin.
      In my band, we write our music before we ever play it. Odin and Loki have become the 2 most important VSTs in this process as they allow us to both experiment and get really close to what the real thing will sound like without having to record take after take.
      Like I said, they're not the real thing, but in 16+ years of recording music, they're the best ones I've ever used.

    • @nenissaK
      @nenissaK 4 года назад +1

      Evolution Dracus / the like, for example Shreddage Jupiter. €€€

    • @deepfriedcurtains
      @deepfriedcurtains 3 года назад

      @@autobotsNdecepticons ppi

  • @renefrater2394
    @renefrater2394 Год назад +1

    Why didn’t you use stock plugin from Logic? You know it’s easy to do it with session brass, but what if we don’t have that expensive plugins?

    • @LittleRichard1988
      @LittleRichard1988 Год назад

      The ESX24 sounds are still decent sounding even today, if I had Logic I would still use the ESX24 instruments, I remember
      using Logic at college even before I had a DAW. I even find the brass sections in Halion are acceptable.

  • @mybiggrin
    @mybiggrin 3 года назад +2

    Did I miss something, or did you not show us the final result?

  • @paulwarren8832
    @paulwarren8832 4 года назад +5

    Super helpful, thanks for taking the time to do this. Very useful and informative. Keep up the great work 🙏🏼

  • @drathernaut
    @drathernaut 4 года назад +11

    I believe it’s just C - 1st octave. Not “negative one”. Just like middle C is C - 4.

    • @paradiddlesjosh
      @paradiddlesjosh 2 года назад +1

      Not quite. C4 is middle C, yes, but the keyswitches are bound by default to the octave below the playable range of a piano -- therefore, C-1 etc.

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад

      There are, in fact, keys below C0... technically an unlimited number of them, although you'll reach a point where there's no purpose to having them. Having keys below the typical pitch range of a grand piano allows for keys that can be triggered, but not for any (usable) audio purpose.

  • @waynemiller6070
    @waynemiller6070 3 года назад

    Thanks for taking the time on this. I learned how the lower notes control what kind of activity will be associated with the actual notes played on Kontakt.
    I found it interesting that you could quantize at all since your audio was clearly 3/4 or 6/8 time and your time signature was 4/4 as well as the tempo of the song seemed largely ignored. (like no click track used for recording) But it somehow worked.
    By using CC 11 (expression) for volume you can set the actual volume (CC 7) at the beginning of the song and expression will act as a volume within the volume. That way your overall volume will be maintained, since midi will play the last setting for the CC that it was given. Of course if people prefer to use a lot of automation that would be another way to accomplish what they want.
    Again, thanks for the post.

  • @gerardocisneros795
    @gerardocisneros795 4 года назад +6

    good job explaining the tips to do this. however, to this day, I'm still not finding a midi horn that I'm like "whoa, that actually sounds real..." it's tough to make it realistic

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +1

      You might be a bit too picky because there are a great many sample-based brass instruments nowadays that can sound incredibly realistic when they're set up and "played" properly. It's all about the digital technique. Too many people have no idea how to actually perform a virtual instrument to its intended ability or they're just too lazy to finesse it or build in the necessary nuance.

  • @oscaroscar7904
    @oscaroscar7904 7 месяцев назад

    There is no good trumpet sounds in garageband ( standard version i think) little space to, i cant record anything since the memory keeps glicthing, the clarinet and piano sounds are good though but feels weird to play those instruments on a touch screen😅😅

  • @idiotburns
    @idiotburns 3 года назад +6

    Video should be called, how to make programmed midi sound played. I want to know what EQ/Mixing/effects make it real.

  • @luciano.armani
    @luciano.armani 4 года назад

    great resource man. con apply some stuff for strings too.

  • @redoemusic
    @redoemusic 4 года назад +1

    Good job mate 😎👌

  • @jamesrossmusic6013
    @jamesrossmusic6013 3 года назад

    Thank you!

  • @AllanGildea
    @AllanGildea 4 года назад +1

    Excellent as always, thank you.

  • @Haukh
    @Haukh 3 года назад +1

    thank you Jacks films

  • @badnoch5849
    @badnoch5849 3 года назад

    What application is this?

  • @LAPhil-ey1dv
    @LAPhil-ey1dv 4 года назад +1

    Great video

  • @isaacredmond.
    @isaacredmond. 3 года назад

    I can see you got this plugin from Spitfire I’m guessing. How can I get it too? :)

    • @pianoman1862
      @pianoman1862 3 года назад

      Go to www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/instruments/

    • @pianoman1862
      @pianoman1862 3 года назад +1

      Incidentally, they do a free version of the BBC Symphony Orchestra if you don't mind filling in a survey and then waiting 14 days for the download link. Their LABS range is also free and pretty good for nought.

  • @xuanhatuvi
    @xuanhatuvi 3 года назад

    how can I extend the key range?

  • @cbrooks0905
    @cbrooks0905 4 года назад

    Is that Logic’s plugin?

  • @SergeyEpitaph
    @SergeyEpitaph 3 года назад

    thank you, sir!

  • @marcelmiagi4579
    @marcelmiagi4579 2 года назад

    What the heck are the words to the opening song for this channel?!

  • @Annunaki_0517
    @Annunaki_0517 10 месяцев назад +1

    Sheesh, you need a better brass plugin. Those trumpet sounds are like a glitchy synth through an overdrive pedal.

  • @gustafkey1608
    @gustafkey1608 3 года назад

    As far as I know it's the real sampling brass, the way it convert to kontakt that make it more complex...no company can implament properly how it can play with keyboard controller or with drawing midi, they just made as many articulation as they can, to be honest I put this brass section on my song and doesn't sound like this video examples, it's depends our skill how to make as real as the original. I think we have to change our prespektive about THIS modern brass sampling, it's not the MIDI sampling like the old ways, it's the real intruments sampling but it convert to digital ,we know as midi so that we can play in our controller , think of it like the real analog gear that engineer put to the digital world like cla-1176 , cla-2A from waves, but that is more simple compare to make the real instrument and put it on digital world we know as sampling

  • @brassplyer
    @brassplyer Год назад

    From a sound perspective open trumpet can sound great combined with trombone and sax - I'm sure you've heard Chicago. If you want something pointedly subdued I'd recommend flugel instead of trumpet with a Harmon. But the problem is with the MIDI open horn version of any member of the trumpet family it's going to be more obvious it's fake. Your sax lines are really subtracting from the sound - vibrato on MIDI horns always sounds fake. Another problem with MIDI horns is everything sounds dead center on pitch - it takes on an organlike sound.

  • @LooneyLoopz6769
    @LooneyLoopz6769 4 года назад +4

    Technically it's all great info but IDK if you need like ten different brass instruments for a project, too complicated I think. Depends on a genre tho. Also my CPU would cry every time ;(

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +1

      Big Band: 5 saxophones, 4-5 trumpets, 4-5 trombones... but also sometimes flugelhorns, muted trumpets, muted trombones, french horns, tuba, clarinets, flutes...
      Definitely depends on the genre... but we do need 'em.

  • @Squidaniel
    @Squidaniel 4 года назад +5

    Step One: Buy a $300 brass Library lol

    • @LittleRichard1988
      @LittleRichard1988 2 года назад

      Not necessarily.

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +2

      Have you ever hired real horn players to record a session for you? How much did you pay them to rehearse, modify as needed, and lay down your tracks? Were they any good? Did any of them call in sick or come in drunk or high? Were any of them just not feeling it? Did they all have the range of technique you were looking for? If you want to use real brass players, go right ahead! That's generally preferred. It'll also cost you way more than $300 in the long run. Also... you don't need a $300 sample library. It's got a lot more to do with how you program the MIDI, which most people are too lazy to do. They want ready out of the box perfect results and that's just dumb. A quality sample library will at least let you give you an option. Or... go spend the money on a real horn section... but you're paying by the hour, so you better know what you want! No experimenting when you decide on a trombone instead of a tenor sax!

  • @production2353
    @production2353 3 года назад +8

    How to Make MIDI Brass Sound Realistic: You can't

    • @jomaq9233
      @jomaq9233 3 года назад +8

      Koichi Sugiyama: “That sign can’t stop me because I can’t read!”

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +1

      Not true. Maybe YOU can't.

    • @production2353
      @production2353 2 года назад

      @@Salsuero No I actually meant what I actually said. I've never heard brass done convincingly using samples. Maybe you have? Or maybe you've bad hearing and can't tell the difference?

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +1

      @@production2353 Maybe you're expecting real horns from a computer. That could be your mistake. They sound completely passable and reasonable to most people. Been at this thing for a long long time. I'm sad for you that you are so anal and unhappy that you haven't been able to enjoy a single virtual horn library to this point. It's all fake! Shout it until everyone's ears bleed. I've heard VERY convincing virtual horns. Sucks that you haven't. I suspect you purposely look for ways to discount them before they even have a chance, though. Seems like the kind of person you are judging by your attempt at an insult.

  • @DavidRosario69
    @DavidRosario69 4 года назад +1

    I think that the first question should be: does this song even need brass? Obviously something like Salsa is "of course", and then there's "You Can Call Me Al". For the song in this demo, I wouldn't have added horns. You have everything from Miami Sound Machine style to small sections, and it gets really subjective for some songs.

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +1

      You wouldn't have... but he's the one writing it... not you. So, if he wants horns, that's his creative license to do!

  • @thegamingzone5963
    @thegamingzone5963 4 года назад

    Mann don't knoe why this name is in my head every time Sean divine lol.

  • @MJSHorror
    @MJSHorror 3 года назад

    Is the guy talking Cobra Kai Kid

  • @darkendkefka
    @darkendkefka 4 года назад +6

    🤔 talks about the voices of brass instruments while showing a woodwind instrument lol

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад

      Yes... imagine that... horns can be referred to as many things. We call them the brass in pop and jazz. We don't call them woodwinds. LOL That's a symphonic reference. They've got reeds, but they're made of brass, not wood. So what's actually closer to reality?

  • @Salsuero
    @Salsuero 2 года назад +15

    Sorry, but as a trumpet player, you are giving us zero credit for being able to play any sort of length to these notes. If we couldn't play more than a half bar at a time, we'd be fired. Period.

    • @TheBeanMan263
      @TheBeanMan263 4 месяца назад

      Obviously, man thinks you guys don’t have oxygen

  • @RamosDevon442
    @RamosDevon442 2 года назад

    Why Don't My Garageband Don't Look Like This

    • @LittleRichard1988
      @LittleRichard1988 7 месяцев назад

      The brass sample library in this video is Session Horns Pro by Native Instruments which ia a sample
      library for Kontakt or the free Kontakt Player version. Also Garageband is a more cut down version
      of Logic.

  • @Williamtipq
    @Williamtipq 3 года назад

    888th like. I am pure power.

  • @pshimmons
    @pshimmons 4 года назад +4

    Amazing how simple and straight forward these ideas are but how many people don’t even think about common sense! Next step.... stop showing saxophone players when talking about BRASS instruments. Saxophones are woodwinds man!

    • @teamground0229
      @teamground0229 4 года назад +2

      I think the video should have referenced horns rather than brass. Common to have sax with brass in a horn section.

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +2

      They are called brass instruments (or just horns) when you are discussing the section in terms of pop or jazz. They are woodwinds symphonically. Let's not forget... they're not made of wood. You can call them reed instruments, but they're still made of brass! It's not like a trumpet or trombone is a horn, either... but we don't have any issue calling them horns, right? Don't be so small-minded.

  • @greghillmusic
    @greghillmusic 2 года назад

    Man this misses all the marks as far as what to actually do to make MIDI brass sound realistic..
    Velocity, Expression, Dynamics... hello?
    Why is your fader past unity gain? Ugh...

  • @BillySunbrook
    @BillySunbrook 5 месяцев назад

    Not a good sound. Harmonica Vibes!

  • @robacYT
    @robacYT 4 года назад

    Interesting... but really NAFfF to talk about brass whilst showin pictures of saxophones ... they are woodwind.. . Totally different way of producing sound and therefore different tonality !!!

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад

      Yeah... they're reeded AND made of brass. They are both woodwinds symphonically and brass instruments in pop/jazz. They can be called many things because they do multiple jobs.

  • @mariusmitrea5462
    @mariusmitrea5462 Год назад

    ✨🙄🙄🙄talk too much....✨🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣🫣

  • @AlanW91
    @AlanW91 3 года назад

    All these videos are clickbaits. You're just telling us what we already know to sound cool. How about actually showing people how to make it realistic? Disliked.

    • @LittleRichard1988
      @LittleRichard1988 Год назад

      You obviously didn't watch the video all the way through. He explained about how to sequence the notes in a certain way
      and how to use articulations.

  • @gasparucciox9706
    @gasparucciox9706 4 года назад +4

    best way is using a real brass section

    • @brythebass
      @brythebass 4 года назад +16

      Helpful comment, on a video titled How To Make MIDI Brass More Realistic 🤦🏻‍♂️🤷‍♂️

    • @_emanmodnar
      @_emanmodnar 3 года назад +2

      With the available tools (samplers) out there today, I feel it’s a true statement... They simply doesn’t sound realistic at all...

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +2

      Depends... do you have a "GOOD" brass section? How much money did you pay them for their session time?

    • @Salsuero
      @Salsuero 2 года назад +1

      @@_emanmodnar Done right, they can sound almost indistinguishable. The problem is the laziness to edit the instrument and MIDI to actually include the nuance needed to sound realistic. Everyone wants a quick and easy right out of the box method. Anything done right takes time and effort.

    • @_emanmodnar
      @_emanmodnar 2 года назад +1

      Haven’t heard it yet. All libraries I’m aware of have sounds of brass instruments that sounds like kazoos on steroids at best. The best sound libraries still makes the brass section in your score sound like a marching band of antz 😅 Not even like a low-level brass band.. And by the way: How many libraries allows you to choose between straight-, cup-, harmon-, and plunger mutes (just to mention the most common mutes)? Normally we would only get a harmon (and can’t control any aspects of it - like stem in/out wahwah).. How many libraries let you choose between airy sounds, soft sweet tone, or aggressive brassy sound… it’s mostly the latter.. 🙄 what about piccolo trumpets and flygelhorn, or other differences between large bore and small bore sounds and bell sizes … it makes quite some difference if you are trying to mimic a Chicago brass section or a club bigband sound…
      If you know of any libraries, please let me know.

  • @huber-lofiandchillbeat
    @huber-lofiandchillbeat 3 года назад

    Thank you !