I own several of MikroTik switches for my home lab. Jay, since you don't want to use advanced features or configure it go into the WebGUI and switch it to SwitchOS. This will give you much better performance. Make sure you update the RouterOS firmware first before switching it to SwitchOS.
I agree with this 100% and I will add something very important. Make sure you enable ARP Tables in Switch OS. This will give you a lightweight management scheme that significantly increases performance, reduces traffic, reduces switch fatigue and greatly increases the connection speed (also reduces lag). From Jay’s description of use case… this is what he is really after. Oh… it will also offload local traffic from your higher tier router. Lesson: Just make sure ARP Tables is enabled in Switch OS. It’s one of those few simple options that has a dramatic effect of local network performance at a micro-price.
100% the right answer here. Being a system engineer and homelabber these 'server' videos are kinda funny to watch. "these switches sound like a whole server rack on it's own" haha tell me you haven't been in a DC without telling me.
@@pitspeedtv OK, never worked with MikroTik but I have a question. This is an honest question about how the switches run because standard networking goes against your statement. What exactly would using ARP tables on a switch running l2 communications do to help? Just curious because ARP tables are L3 (ip/mac) and the switch at L2 only cares about mac location because it is directing traffic based on mac to mac. It's going to look at the incoming frame and and see the destination MAC address and then send it out the corresponding port it has in its MAC table. It will never go to the ARP able unless it is also running router functions. Adding ARP tables to a switch that is not also doing routing is just overhead on the switch processes.
@@joee7452 All good Joe. Good question(s). You just pointed out the highlight of SwitchOS (I don’t work there, just tested extensively). *traditionally* (this is where you are getting tripped up), ARP Tables are (and still are) reserved for Tier 3. The same place that VLANS, DHCP, and VPNs reside. Ironically, this switch is underpowered (chipset) to handle any sort of VLAN, or VPN loads. This is where you would buy ubiquiti and such (therein lies the cost justification) BUT….. What if you stripped away all of that and said this: “Let me take my memory, and my processing power (traditionally reserved for managed tasks), and apply it to three simple tasks…” The three tasks: 1. Query the ENTIRE network (including the tier 3 router) for matches on a local subnet, PER PACKET. (BTW unmanaged (T2) switches just send it to the tier 3 router, because they have no ARP tables, etc.) Traditionally, waiting for the reply, is the major cause of what we know today as Network LAG. 1a. What if we stored that and routed all proceeding packets at what would traditionally be considered tier 3, at Tier2?) Before I go on… it is technically tier 3, but what if we could make it tier 2A? Not send it to the router/T3. Network Lag becomes very apparent when you consider that every packet (big or small) needs to be parsed, and passed, and rerouted until a handshake occurs. Until it runs into a rule, or specific network instruction (Tier 3… internet router, etc.). The LAG comes with the waiting for reply and the timeout when none is received. 2. What if we had sufficient memory and processing power to maintain a simple list of successful handshakes and packet transfers (locally in the same subnet), and completed the handshake and transfer without needing to send it up to the “gateway”? Well that is an ARP table. No waiting, no LAG, and simple routing, handshake, packet completion. At this point we are in traditional Tier 3 territory. But what if we could do it at tier 2? Or technically tier 2A. 3. Store and Parse not only the *known routes*, but detect and parse the packet size? Again a typical tier 3 router function. Well that is what SwitchOS does. In fact with the exception of #3, that is what a normal “dummy” switch does. So you are correct about Tier2 and Tier3. SwitchOS is a beautiful hybrid. Strip away the VLANS, VPNs, etc. Just focus on LAN, and send it up if it doesn’t have a recognized subnet. It’s a 10G Ferrari LAN, at a KIA price. All of the bad reviews revolve around RouterOS and its inability to to VLANS and VPNs. That is not where it shines. Jay’s use-case is perfect for that switch… in SwitchOS. The SFP+ version of that is cheaper, and you can use ethernet SFP+ adapters, as well as scale to fibre at less cost…. but the topic is Switch OS and ARP Tables. I digress.
You chose MikroTik. You chose well. As others have commented, to make it run a little more efficiently (and boot faster), log into its management UI and switch it to SwOS (SwitchOS). Have to glance at the online guide since the UI is absolutely bonkers crazy.
@@jasonsachinger3276 I wouldn't call it that; it's certainly not perfect but if you want switch throughput, SwOS is ideal on these MikroTik routers-I'm able to get multiple 10 Gbps paths through my CRS309s tested bidirectional with iperf3. MikroTik is great for the price + reliability, especially if you don't care about the routing functionality (which can be dizzying to configure through their insane UI). If you want anything more fancy, you'll have to pay a lot more!
@@JeffGeerling Geez the mikrotik app on phones. Its quick setup section has been through a bunch of updates that improved its performance and usability, it can be quite good for most basic configs :) You can also run containers in latest routerOS dev update which might be up your alley :)
I think you should spend some more time on routeros and winbox. It is absolutely the best solution for switching and routing. Just make sure to use router hardware for routing and switching hardware for switching.
Mikrotik is terrific in terms of switching and routing. I have fully enjoyed learning the tools and tricks of ROS. Later down the road I might get a 24 port MT POE switch to replace my old Dell X1018P and RB2011 if call centers would quit hogging them all up.
Just a comment on the power supplies. Parallel on the capacitors there should be a discharge resistor that drains the capacitor. So after a few minutes it should be safe to touch. If in doubt don't touch it or measure it with a multimeter.
@@danny_dan4323 The proper method is to get a power resistor and drain the caps with it instead of shorting them. But that's only if the circuit doesn't already have a bleed resistor, like Rob said.
Honestly unless you remove the power supply from the stud its on, theres almost no way to touch the terminal of those capacitor, even if a heatsink is say somehow connected to the negative pin, so what ? No path back to the positive, the only chance you might get shocked would be if you actively poke around the component pins on the board but thats also very little chance, its not plugged in, it wont create a path to gnd cause the stored charge on the cap isnt earth gnd reference
I know nothing about setting up a home server, but the topic has always been interesting to me. Maybe if these last 2 videos you put out get enough people's attention, a full 101 series about it (like you did with watercooling) would be cool. I envision one day having hard wired jacks in a few rooms in my house so I can always hardwire conveniently and this seems like the kind of setup I'd need for 2 purposes - accessing files from storage in 1 central location, and accessing the internet hardwired with a network cable
No disrespect to Jay, but networking is not his strength. Go to LTT or any of a dozen other popular tech channels that have networking chops, and there will be something already there for you.
Beside from this, another relatively "cheap" option for a 10G RJ45 switch that I can find is Unifi Switch Enterprise XG 24. With double the ports and price, but also with 2 extra 25G SFP28 uplink.
@jayztwocents - I implore you to please remove the 3M-tape you added! The glue is going to dry out from the heat and over time causing a mess for you to discover later. If you're concerned by the wider gap created by the shorter Noctua fan, you could 3D print a tiny shroud instead of using tape. Great mod otherwise!
Instead of using tape to direct the airflow, you could 3D print spacers that go between the fans and the metal chassis. That would push the fans back closer to the heatsink. Use the fans you took out as a measurement guide and eyeball the thickness of spacer needed.
@@Mikeracing2005 but also you have to remember that in order to do that reduction the fan would need ridiculous static pressure for it to have decent airflow which would almost mitigate the advantages of using a smaller fan as higher speed = higher static pressure
@@N0N0111 I don't necessarily think that is fair, I personally have a resin printer and an fdm printer like them and in my experience it is not always the best solution to 3d print something and also sometimes it is just completely unnecessary to do so
I'm sure you already know all this stuff Jay but I wanted to clarify for your audience some of the confusion around SFP+. SFP/SFP+ is just a hot-swappable data transceiver used in data network applications. It isn't "Ethernet" or "Fiber". It's a layer 1 technology that only handles electrical and/or optical signaling. It is designed to add versatility to your network infrastructure by allowing the design to implement different carrier mediums (i.e. copper or fiber optic). In most network designs that use SFP/SFP+ technology you'll see either fiber optic modules or preassembled high speed copper modules/cables (called DACs or direct attached copper). However, SFP+ is also capable of supporting RJ45 for standard ethernet connectivity. So if you run into an issue like where Jay was saying he couldn't find an SFP card that would fit in his server, you can still use a "regular" ethernet card in the server and an RJ45 SFP+ module in the switch and everything will work fine. No need to worry about modifying any patch panels. In the case of what Jay is doing, personally, I would look around for an SFP+ card that will fit in the server and connect the server to the switch with a DAC. Especially if they're going to be living in the same rack. That would provide the most reliable connection between server and switch and is plenty capable of 10Gbe speeds (I've run 40 and 100 gigabit DAC connections between core switches in datacenters many times). Just my two centz...
Good info. The issue that Jay was referring to at 1:37 is that the SFP+ cards (or any PCIE card for that matter) would not fit in their PCs that they use to edit videos because the PCs have vertical mount GPUs, NOT that the SFP+ card would not fit in the server. I assume their video editing rigs all have 10G ethernet on the motherboard.
@@kevinoneill2170 There are kinda small PCIE low profile SPF+ cards. And that resolves the issue. as the most expensive thing are the 10G ethernet cards.
@@kevinoneill2170 Ah I see. Well, in that case, if they do have 10gbe built in then there shouldn't be a problem. I wonder if half-height cards would fit, in case the motherboard doesn't have built in 10gbe.
I think SFP+ DAC is better than CAT6 for short runs, lower latency and a lot cheaper. 10GB Ethernet is between £50 and £100 per end where as SFP+ cable is £20 and the cards are £30.
@@kevinoneill2170 I think what he means is that you can find SFP+ connectors that adapt to copper for Ethernet runs, instead of fiber. Either way, unless he has runs of Cat 6A (current ethernet standards) surpassing 100 meters (100 meters is the maximum rated distance for Cat 6A at 10Gbase-T), he shouldn't need to worry about SFP+ runs over Ethernet runs in the office/warehouse. The only real benefit of using fiber over copper, that I know of in this case, is that copper tends to get hot at 10Gbase-T.
Missed an opportunity to 3d print a little fan shroud. Blocking the sides would be more important than the top, since the lid itself covers the top. And I was curious if all of the fans were set to exhaust. I assume so. Overall a really nice mod. Definitely worth the extra 10%.
Something to keep in mind. Noctua fans will not move the same amount of air as the ones he removed. And if you fill that router and load it up in a hot rack, it might overheat.
I think those Delta fans are about 13 usd each (EFB0412VHD-F00). Also for specs Noctua 9.8 m3/h vs Delta 16.8 m3/h airflow Edit if those are (TFA0412CN-CN) 40x40x28 mm then they are 20 usd each but move air about 4x noctua (43.0 vs 9.3 m3/h) and 17k rpm will happily slice you finger
i dont know why, but i really like network videos... seeing my favorite youtubers build servers and stuff is just so awesome! i hope to one day soon be able to afford to build a better server. i think it was Linus' video which showed how to build a cheap 'server' or NAS out of an old pc. thats exactly what i did. i have something like 11tb of storage on it, and it holds all my important stuff as well as some of my youtube videos, i also use it as a minecraft server from time to time... i lost about 80% of my original video files when i lost a hdd a few years back :( i have no redundancy which sucks. id love to pick up 4 4tb hdd's and have one as a redundant drive for backup. cheers Jay! i cant wait to see more shop build videos! also, id love to see another silly clips compilation video haha!
Unifi's Switch Enterprise XG 24 is what we use in our rack. It has (24x) 10Gig RJ45 and (2x) 25Gig SFP28 ports. A little expensive at $1,299, but it is one of the better deals for that configuration (when it is in stock).
I use Ubiquity everywhere i can except huge complex networks with critical infrastructure. I'm a bit of a fanboy... But they are changing the game when it comes to managing their stuff.
I purchased an older Extreme X670v-48t switch off of eBay for my house since I have fortunate enough to have Google Fiber. Works like a charm and came with some advanced licensing and four QSFP+ ports for 40 GB links to other switches. No PoE or NBaseT support but I have some other 1GBaseT switches for that. I had to get the QSFP cards for my X460-G2-48p-10GE4 units but I'm now in a near non-blocking scenario between my switches if everything were going full tilt. Regardless the old corporate unit path does get you a lot of your money in terms of hardware but you're also out of warranty. There are a few 10 Gbit switches with 802.3bt (90W PoE) capable RJ45 ports but due to the supply shortage they're nearly impossible to get still. For work, I'm still waiting on a unit I ordered 15 months ago to arrive. For business usage they're not outrageous but not cheaper either new. In the SFP focused areas, things have quickly transitioned SFP28 capable ports for more bandwidth. What is driving me crazy is the constant mentioning of 10GbaseT ports simply referred to as 'Ethernet' as if the SFP is not also Ethernet. Ethernet is a protocol that span different physical iterations based upon need.
@@TonyHoyle It is about time to start using it as 2.5GbaseT and 5GbaseT are also available now for Ethernet in the consumer realm. 25GbaseT and 40GbaseT have specifications out there but I'm not aware of anyone using them in a datacenter, commercial or residential application. I have heard of 40GbaseT4 being used in automative which is four 10GbaseT1 pairs bonded into a single 40 Gbit link. 10GbaseT1 is 10 Gbit as the name implies but over a single pair of copper wires, again only used in automotive applications.
Yea i said the same, it be better at the sides to create a tunnel, the lid being the top part. but pretty sure it wont last long since the "wind" will blow it of eventually. should 3D print a small box for that area using old fans as a template for size. that's how i would have done it. *shrugs*
Yep that gap make me notice those deltas are maybe 40x40x28 (TFA0412CN-CN) and each of them move 4x Noctua amount of air. I hope that don't get full load for long time or it maybe won't cool enough.
@@LimbaZero I'm surprised it has fans like that to start with.. It does say it's tested to 70C ambient though so I could imagine it needing them then.. Suspect once it's booted it'd have been pretty quiet anyway with the stock fans. It's just switching.. not even PoE, in an air conditioned room with presumably about 18C intake.
I did a similar fan mod with my G.Skill memory coolers. The stock white LED fans they used crapped out after only 5000 hours so I went and got four 40mm PWM Delta fans as replacements. Not only longer life but with PWM I can monitor/control them as well. Definitely happy with the result 👍
Last I checked the Hammerhead screwdriver doesn't exist for a reasonable price anymore. (That may have changed) But Skil has an almost identical screwdriver on amazon for about $35. It's a great buy.
I already made a post not knowing you guys had mentioned the screwdriver but yeah, $130 is not cheap, expected $50 or less. Might have to take a look at the Skil, thanks Josh.
but I will say the before and after switch from 3 pin to NT PWM is just incredible. great video, please can you update us on how they behave under heated condions in the rack.
I've got the 16 port SFP+ Mikrotik switch. It has served me well with 3 VM hosts, a storage server, wireless AP, and my main gaming machine all hooked to 10Gbe. It's the model with a huge heatsink off the back of the unit with two fans and is quite quiet. I have my main gaming machine and wireless AP hooked to it through SFP+ to 10gbase-T modules, which were like $48. The wireless AP even hooked to it at 2.5Gb, but the switch shows it at 10Gb. The 10Gbase-SR modules were only like $10 each, and the om3 cables I used were dirt cheap compared to cat6 cables. But that's just me. I prefer fiber because of the lack of EM interference. You do what you need.
Usually I skip content creator's ads, because they are so much scripted and boring. But JayzTwoCents iFixit and World of Warships ads are the exception. They are so much entertaining, that I sometimes go back and watch them again!
Pretty sure you should be charged with a minor misdemeanor for skipping his made ads. That or I believe it says in the Bible that you are to be publicly stoned to death for skipping it.
Hey Jay. Mikrotik is pretty good. I have a 10GbE SFP+ passively cooled switch from them and it's solid. The problem with 10Gb RJ45 is that it's super power inefficient so that's why you need the crazy cooling and why you don't see many switches with a lot of 10Gb RJ45 ports. There's really not a good solution if you want more ports and only one switch. Those Noctua fans are great also, I've used them to quiet many cranky switches. Some switches have a nonstandard 3 pin wire order and that's what the connection kit is for. No soldering required, just snaps on to the wires.
You mean not many switches for regular home like use right? 10g RJ45 is pretty much a standard at the business level for new copper equipment and has been for years now (especially server side). Seeing TOR switches of 48/96/128 10gE ports or chassis with 8+ line cards of 48 port 10gE copper is pretty normal. Not cheap, but pretty standard like 1g was before.
@@joee7452 Completely disagree. 10GbE SFP+ networking is standard at the business level server side, and quickly moving to QSFP+ 25GbE. I have no idea what crazy person would ever run 10GbE RJ45 in racks on purpose. That's ridiculous.
@@icebalm This. IMO 10G RJ45 only kinda makes sense for home and small business because it can make use of existing ethernet runs over small distances. But in actual server racks then anything over 1G is going to be SFP+ and QSFP+. I have the passiveley-cooled CRS309 in my home rack and it works wonders. I also have the CRS305 floating around somewhere and thinking about getting a CRS317 which is 16 ports and about $220 cheaper than the 12 port switch in this video. 🦊🤘
@@icebalm Umm, so you would have no grandfathered equipment? No servers with IMM controls? No Servers that have a mix of copper and fiber because most servers come with onboard copper and fiber is typically an IO add. Why would I spend more to add Fiber to a server that would be fine with copper interfaces that are on board? Why would I ignore using those copper interfaces for things like ESXi admin links so I can reserve the fiber 10g (or more) for host communication? Why would I limit myself to a 1g copper switch if I can use a 10g and still provide connections to both 1g and 10g cards? Outside of the datacenter, If I am putting in new access level switches and cabling, why wouldn't I go with a 10g copper switch and cat 6a or 7 cabling to have the availability of 10g to the desktop? Datacenter networking is a mix usually of copper 100m-100g and 1g-400g fiber now with more speeds coming. I even have some Inifiniband around. There is a place for all types depending on what you need it to do. To just say that there is no reason to use 10g means you really haven't worked in a normal datacenter.
@@joee7452 I'm saying 10Gb RJ45 is power inefficient and produces a lot of heat so it's not generally used. Of course 1Gb RJ45 is still used for management ports and such, but SFP's are much more efficient for higher speeds and what is generally used in datacenters. You're also confusing connectors with cable types. Generally you'd use DAC cables to connect devices in the same rack since its much more cost effective. If you're putting in new access switches and cabling and require 10Gb to desktops you should use SFP+ switches and run single mode fiber because it's a lot cheaper than CAT6a/7 and will support higher speeds in the future. SFP+ switches are more versatile because you can get RJ45 SFPs if you need them. If you don't require 10Gb to devices just run CAT5e and call it a day. There is no reason to use 10Gb RJ45 in the datacenter.
Recently redid my home LAN with 48-port gigabit switch from a data center. It was on ebay for under $40, for real network hardware, not trash 5-port plastic boxes. Gigabit is all I need at home. The internet is gigabit, as are my modem and router and all my PCs. So this gigabit switch replaced multiple daisy chained consumer switches with just one I can manage any way I want. It has a fiber upgrade option if I ever need it. So for me and my needs, and the super performance, I could not be happier. Decommissioned data center gear still has a ton of value in a SoHo setting.
I did similar but I added another network alongside. Most of my servers and gear is in one place so I bought some SFP+ 10Gbps dual port cards and daisy chained my servers together and the end one connects to the SFP+ card in my PC. When I want to access files from my PC I can reach all of my servers over the dedicated 10Gig network. No switch required. The cards and cables are not very expensive.
I had a NetGear 10G RJ45 switch a few years back at work - swapped its extremely loud internal fan with a Noctua, that fixed it and made it workable in an office. Keep that unit well-ventilated, those 10G-base-T ports generate a lot of heat.
I agree about the packaging! I got some of those for my 3D printer Inwas modding. They are nice! I endednup with a spare, so one blows on my RAM now. Regarding the "smell of electronics" it made me think about how much I miss the smell of a new game manual!! Not only do we hardly get manuals, we hardly get a physical game! (For PC at least).
It’s funny everyone around the world seems to have this “game manual smell fetish” 😄 Still remember the days as a little kid getting a new game. First thing you did was stick your nose in the manual and took a big sniff
Doubt you will read this but the resolution for daisy chaining switches is to get stackable switches that use a 40+ Gbps backplane to transfer data between them or you can setup most managed switches to have 2-4 ports in a LAG to get 20-40Gbps between the switches.
Thank you for the hammerhead details. I use a Skil driver that looks about identical to yours except that it's red/black. I'm on my second driver of that type and they are great and were especially handy when I had problems because of carpal tunnel narrowing.
Being an IT guy and a system builder myself, I can't believe it took as long as it did for me to come across your channel. I've been binging on all of your content for the past week and a half! Top notch stuff bro! I have the final parts coming for my mixed use gaming/editing rig tomorrow so I'll be binging again while I build. Repurposed i7-10700, 32gb, 2070 Super, enough LEDs to give my cat seizures (not really but sounded funny). Still rocking my Cooler Master tower cooler too, from 2005! The bracket that came with it has fit everything from an FX-8350 right up to my current build (the i7). I almost went AIO but I just can't give up this cooler (original fan too but I'm replacing it with an LED this time).
Enjoy! I built a similar rig during the pandemic (i7 10700KF, 32GB, M.2 NVME OS drive with an insanely overpriced EVGA 3070) and it rocks pretty much anything I throw at it game-wise or image- & video- wise at high to ultra settings. 😁 That's at 3440 x 1440 btw. 😃 (edit: added screen resolution!)
@@mnemonik61 Very nice! I was fortunate that my boss wanted to give his kid's gaming rig an update so when he bought the 2070 he ordered 2 and handed me one.
We just started using these at our company as well and seem to be working really well(small user group, extremely large file sizes). Didn't want the hassle of switching out a ton of equipment for sfp and easier for base IT staff to support.
I just bought my first NAS recently and I’m diving into the networking side of IT lately, Im glad to see you do some networking focused content recently.
I found your screwdriver on Amazon UK, only £292 or $333... We actually offer fan swaps on the gear we install, sometimes the client needs the speed but can't have the noise.
The suggestion to run switchOS is exactly spot on. These are no good in router mode, but baller in switch mode. I have them all over the place as storage switches and they work great.
I went with Unifi products from Ubiquiti for my network. Been rock solid for almost a year since now. Their hardware can be a bit difficult to acquire sometimes, though.
Ubiquiti is simpler, but I don't like the cloud centric approach their unifi line uses. Not for something simple like switches. I don't like that they can end of life a perfectly working product like they did with their access points. I can no longer manage them from the controller.
@@ferdievanschalkwyk1669 Agreed. I still love my UAP-AC-LR, but when it comes time to upgrade or expand I'll probably look elsewhere. I downgraded for a while after the USG-integration firmware update, to get some features back, but bug-fixes and other improvements basically forced me to just take the L.
I like their piecemeal radio systems more. Great stuff for building out mixed media networks in rural environments. The UniFi systems can create problems if there is a discontinuity in network management. I had that happen to me. Ended up with a UniFi subnet that was unrecoverable because no one knew the password for the key and that left a bunch of units bricked because they cannot be factory reset to associate with a new key unit.
I have everything from 100Mb to 40Gb QSFP+ in my setup. Use Cat5/6 for anything outside the rack or management interfaces. Use SFP with DACs in rack. Use fiber only for 100m+ long runs.
You said no switch to switch, but you COULD easily get a 2nd one, and use 2 of the SFP+ ports with a short DAC cable and bind them for effective 20Gbs between the switches, you will hard pressed to push the full 10Gb between 2 ports anyway, so this would not be much of a bottleneck.
No, you can't. That's not how LAGG works. You get 2 10Gbps links. You don't get 20Gbps. Frame headers get hashed and if you're lucky, 2 clients get sent down different links. That's not always the case in instances of piss-poor hashing algorithms used to load-balance the LAGG.
@@AC-cg4be No one said you get 20Gb at once, but YOU CAN get 2x 10Gb connections across it at once. There are only 10Gb ports available, why would you think 1 connection would reach 20Gbs?
I see these things in rural ISP networks and mobile racks and stuff like that, where their Swiss Army Knife traits are often useful. They're not as reliable as the market leader products, and I cringe when I see them in places where uptime is a consideration. But, they're cheap enough to throw them away and replace with a new one when they fail. From what I understand, they also do all of their processing in software, so they'll never be as fast as a switch with a real data plane. You get what you pay for.
@@nickwallette6201 that is incorrect. The Mikrotik switches use ASIC's and switch the packets in hardware. You can hit 10G wirespeed on every port simultaneously without any slow down
The adhesive of tape doesn't like heat. You could 3d print (plenty of online services if you don't have a printer) a part to direct the airflow on all sides. Or simply use foam or poster board, CA glue, and an exacto knife to make a much better air guide for your $600 switch.
Me and a friend did the same mod to a cisco switch, be aware that you need to check the pin out of the header as cisco use a none standard pinout. It works great, those fans are beautifully quiet and is well worth doing if you're buying a used rack mount switch
Those little Noctua fans come in handy a lot. i use them in my switch, in my DVR for CCTV, also in my Yamaha receiver to keep amp cooler. tinker tinker.
If you have trouble getting full 10G speeds these usually come by default with MTU set to 1500 and to get the full performance you will need to set it to 9000 manually (unless they changed it over the years) also don't forget to upgrade to ROS v7.
That is a quiet switch, nice touch with PWM control. Anyone that says that is loud has it in their bedroom. Get a Foundry if you want loud. I think you are going to have heat issues with the Noctua fans with the switch under load. But, I don't see your office burying that switch like I would in a data center
I have some concerns and would love to see an update video if the management software reports temperature. I've looked into using those same Noctua 40s in a 1U server I have, and the CFM just doesn't come close to the fans that came in it. It has dual Xeon X5650s, so I haven't attempted at risk of just wasting the money on a whole bank of them
Test it. Keep in mind all servers is made for worst case scenario. A 42U rack filled with 1U servers and intake temperature of say 22-23c. They need to push a f-ton of air to combat a situation like that with utilization at 100%.
@@rolf7072 And what do I do with 8 to 16 40mm fans if it doesn't cut it for two Xeons? I agree with just testing the switch. But still curious what the thermals are if the interface reports
@@rolf7072 I love Noctua fans and try to use them wherever I can, but I tried to replace a loud 92mm CPU fan (3,000 RPM, I think, might have been 4,000) with a Noctua and the reduction in airflow was so severe that the fan was completely incapable of cooling the CPU and it thermal throttled REALLY hard. Noctua fans will beat the noise levels of any other fan in a comparable performance envelope, but they're not meant to push a ton of air regardless of noise. Their industrialPPC fans are the closest they get to that, where they have much higher RPMs than their normal fans, but they only make those in 120mm and 140mm sizes.
It's funny. As it turns out, RPM, CFM, and noise tend to be directly correlated. :-) There's usually very little difference between almost any two fans that run at the same speed, pushing the same amount of air. There's a bit of motor noise difference, but it's often just that they sound _different,_ and one might be more or less annoying or noticeable. There's vibration, which can be amplified by the surrounding sheet metal or whatever. But you can use isolation mounts on _any_ fan to tame that problem. The main contributor to noise is the air buffeting on surfaces around the fan. Through the heatsink, against the grille, etc. The only way to quiet that is to change the volume of air moving through those turbulent areas (lower RPM), which affects thermals, or change the properties of the physical items in the path so that the air buffets less. Or, if you have the option, change the path of air entirely so that there isn't so much turbulence so close to the fan blades. (For example, using ducts instead of fans directly mounted to a heatsink or, like in the case of the switch, to the perforated grille.)
Ubiquiti is a fantastic option as long as you can get your hands on the equipment. Great ecosystem and solution if you are looking for prosumer grade equipment for networking AND security. They have switches, routers, cameras, and even badge readers for employees to access buildings. Worth looking into for sure. Love my setup at home. Manage it anywhere and local DVR so no fees for anything.
10G RJ45, 10G SFP+ (Be it RJ45, SR, LR etc) are physical layer connections (SFP = Small Formfactor Pluggable) - all are Ethernet, or at least in your use case. But SFP+ SFP28, QSFP28, QSFP56 etc do not in fact have to run Ethernet, you can use Fibre Channel, Infiniband etc in that form factor. Just a FYI for educational purposes. 10G RJ45 consumes more power then (and requires more cooling) than SFP+ SR or LR, so would be nice to see the switch when it is in fact under load re how the fan mod works out as factory fan vs new fan you did not say the RPMs. Another thing to consider here is the cable run length as 10G RJ45 has a much shorter cable run length (30m or 98.42 feet on cat 6E) unless you are installing Cat 7 and even then not good for higher speeds. One point for using fibre is if you installed OM4 then you are able to upgrade down the line to 25G,50G,100G,200G and 400G (and soon 800G) - this pays only depending on how long to plan on staying in that location.
No one should be running OM4 fiber. Use single mode. The cost difference between them is negligible and SMF will easily support any speed now and most likely in the future.
Good info. What about the issue that Jay was referring to at 1:37 that the SFP+ cards (or any PCIE card for that matter) would not fit in their PCs that they use to edit videos because the PCs have vertical mount GPUs? Is there a way to solve that problem? I assume their video editing rigs all have 10G RJ45 ethernet ports on the motherboard.
@@DLJaspah I've heard OM4 fiber can be a lot more durable tho, one claim here was "you can tie it in knots". Now, I'm assuming that they're saying it will still work after you do that, but that's still quite impressive for fiber optics (assuming you untie it, fiber optics can only make light bend so much after all without getting high losses, or maybe I'm wrong about that) The thing is that I've heard fiber optics is somewhat fragile, and if I was gonna run it in my house well it's gotta be able to make tight turns inside my walls. Thoughts?
@@kevinoneill2170 The card needed for a dual port 10/25G is a low profile (HHHL), I guess this would come down to wanting the speed over the bling of a vertical mounted GPU (or get a bigger case).
Those Noctua fans are awesome. I put a pair in the front of a 1U server I built. They're so silent that I have them running full blast in the rack. They're much quieter than the Supermicro 2U sitting further down. I deploy Mikrotik gear at work and have a couple of their routerboards, including an LTE router in my truck. Amazingly powerful devices. But definitely put that in SwOS mode if you're just using it as a switch.
If you’re going from desktops then copper makes sense. Fiber optic makes sense in data centers because fiber optic trunk cables for structured cabling (patch panel to patch panel connections) are much thinner and are impervious to EMI which can be an issue with thousand of servers, switches, PDUs etc. around. Plus nowadays everything moving to 25Gb for compute nodes and 40/100Gb for switch uplinks, having fiber infrastructure with OM4 fiber makes sense for upwards compatibility.
I'm a network admin, and I don't recommand this mod for business switches. Even if it have the same size, fans don't have the same CFM ! It can potentially cause a overheat issue in high load situations. Be careful and read the fan datasheet, the CFM can be hard to find on documentation.
@@darkhunterkiller4602 I've already made the same move on a old cisco 2950, without problem...even if the tiny noctua have a smaller cfm...but here, when we see the rad size, I guess this case can be really hot...I dont know this brand, dont know if you can monitor t° or use the pwm into the system
I work for an ISP and we spec these. Love Mikrotiks for most local office and Small home office builds. RouterOS is also pretty nice once you get used to it.
I love your ads. They make what is usually a really boring and tedious segment of a creator's RUclips video into something which is fun and exciting to watch.
Jay, as a long time viewer and just as a tech guy in general. Do not apologize for the mess or work going on. You are improving yourself, your company and every viewer on the platform. Sure thing let us know, but never apologize for improving yourself dude.
I wouldnt go with the cloud key. I would go UDM Pro SE -> Enterprise X24 -> u6 AP (LR is overkill in that space). Use the Unifi design center, do a quick florplan and the plop in the APs to see how many you need and what type.
Jay, take this with a grain of salt as I don't know the dimensions of your area... however I would have highly suggested a 10G SFP+ switch w/ 25/48g uplink ports for other switches... That way depending on where in the building the rack would be and endpoint compatibility you would be able to adjust according to the needs. Anything over 30m and you start having issues w/ 10G & higher speeds over copper. This would also allow you to pick & choose network capabilities, that way you could choose a 1/2.5/5/10G copper SFP+ module to drive your PC, and Phil could get a higher speed SFP+ module w/ fiber to plug into a more powerful NIC on his PC to give him higher priority to internal bandwidth to the server w/ a higher speed NIC installed in that as well.
I’ve replaced quite a few 1U network gear and server fans with those Noctua fans. You lose some airflow but since the airflow is designed to be up to 100F ambient usually it’s totally fine. Especially those delta ear death fans. Soooooo loud. After swapping the fans then your only question is “Is the fan on/still working?” - I just always crack them open first to check exact size, voltage, and if it can do (4 pin)PWM or not. They’ve always been well worth it. And honestly….with some that are 6+ years of 24/7 service and no failures I feel like they’re more reliable than the original fans.
Especially when people are using more advanced equipment like from Mikrotik rather than the typical more simple small to medium business equipment that most normal people think about like Ubiquiti.
While it doesn't really fit your needs right now the Brocade ICX6610-48P-E is a great enterprise server switch you can get for sub $200 used and it has 8x SPF+ 10Gb ports and 48 1GbE ports. You do have to work around the software lock on the 10Gb SPF+ ports but there are resources online for that. Aruba S2500-24P is also a good option for used enterprise server switches.
7:59 No soldering iron required. If the fans in your switch did not have a standard 3-4 pin header, you would cut the ends off of both fans (new and old) and connect the old fan connector to your new Noctua fans with the kit. Insert the black wires in one connector and use pliers to secure them, do the same with the red wires. In the end you will have a new fan with the original fan's connector. The switch may have a PWM header but the software controlling the fan is set to DC mode, I would remove the PWM wire. 10Gb RJ45 Ethernet ports run hotter than fiber SFP+, fiber runs hotter than Direct Attach Copper (DAC) SFP+. SFP+ RJ45 transceivers run the hottest.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino To me it is akin to a 110 patch panel. The wire is forced into opposing blades that cut the jacket of the wire to make the connection.
I tried those Noctua fans in a new rack-mount NAS last year. They are slower and have a lower pitch than the Synology fans. Sure, they were way more quiet, but the NAS overheated and shut down in under an hour.
You can't use patch panels with DAC cables, and even for fiber you can't just cut a cable and terminate it into a patch panel. Then on the front of the patch panel you can't easily get fiber cables shorter than 50cm/20" so you end up with a mess of excess if the switch and the patch panel are right next to each over. You can get as short as 15cm/6" lengths but they are usually made to order.
Jay: My advice would be to use this switch for your computers and server, then get a second switch like the Mikrotik CSS326-24G-2S+RM for your (relatively) low-speed devices like the cameras, DVR, and eventually your maker equipment. This will also keep your main switch from having to deal with the constant network overhead caused by the cameras/DVR talking to one another. This will give you plenty of room to grow while also reserving 10Gb ports for machines that actually NEED them.
Also to note, this running in SWos has been rock solid stable for me for the last two years. The only time it get's rebooted is when the power goes out long enough for my UPS to die, or when I do a firmware update on it (which is rare). 100% stand by both this 12 port and the 5 port little passively cooled 10GBe switch. Both are awesome.
The 24 port 1 gig Netgear switch I was given by my geek pro system builder and networking buddy has a extremely loud fan in it. I figured my home network would never stress it enough to get hot so I just unplugged the fan. So far it has been fine, fast, no problems. It's not on the level yours is but it just works and I have more ports than I'll ever need with luck. I doubt you could get away with that with that monster but some users out there might get away with it if they have a similar older switch that is stupid loud and you have it where you can actually hear it.
Working as a network engineer I can tell you that Mikrotik is some of the cheapest proper network gear you will ever own. If you need to get to 10Gb uplinks look perhaps the the RB4011 or CCR series. The later can get a bit expensive but its rock solid and just works, it doesnt want to stop routing for as long as it lives. Should you require assistance configuring such router, don't hesitate to give a shout.
Ok FYI. When Jay was talking about the Power supply and it being charged that depends on something. In order to make sure the caps are discharged the best way to do with without using a bridge resistor is to disconnect the power supplies from the mains outlet while the device is still running. Is is true for all AC to DC power supplies. The reason for this is while the PSU is still running, if you pull the plug, so to speak, the PSU will pull the power from the caps, remember, the caps are just there to hold reserve power to prevent the power from dropping below a certain threshold. if the PSU is on when disconnected it will pull the power from the caps until there is no more voltage left and then shut down
I used to work for a WISP that used those for the routing to customers and it worked great. Every now and then a port might go out but you are talking about a ton of data running through it and it was in an a/c cabinet that was outside so I am sure that it will work just fine for you. We used a program called winbox to access the gui for it and it was fairly easy to use. You can also get 10g ethernet sfp for the 4 slots to add more ports. I have removed the power supplies on those to a DC connection before and didn't have any problems so I am pretty sure you are safe.
I work in IT and I run a cloud host. I love mikrotik. They have larger switches but you can do more than 1 switch, I would have a “core” switch and then the “lan” switches off of it. Daisy chaining becomes a problem when you get more than 3 deep and they are not managed.
Mikrotik is pretty much almost used in our radio broadcast setups, but are meant to use in a server room. Where other servers are placed, that also makes a lot of noise. It's strange you didn't let the boys make any apart space for the rack. Ubiquiti has some very good things too, mostly used in real server rooms.
No Jay, those are the best bang for buck and are rock solid, I have lots of MikroTik switches in my home and server rack, never had a single problem with any of them since I got them 5 years ago.
Love your video Jay. I did find the screw driver you have. It is called HAMMERHEAD 4V Lithium Rechargeable Screwdriver with Patented Circuit Sensor. In case anyone else is looking for it.
My ISP buddies use these in their core switching fabric CRS326-24S+2Q+RM $599 RRP It's 24 sfp+ ports (10gig) and two QSFP+ ports (40gig) High port number 10gig copper switches are not very popular and your options will likely always limit you. Best to commit to fibre for all in-rack connections and then install S+RJ10 rj45 modules for cable runs to the PCs.
I have a 24 Port ethernet and two Port 10 gig fiber mikrotik switch deployed in a small video game Lounge environment and it works great. Not as loud as yours with stock fans but definitely not as quiet as noctua. One of the SFP plus ports goes to unraid for game dl caching. Always fun to see server upload numbers pop up into the multiple gigabit range while the entire Lounge downloads a game
@JayzTwoCents i had an SFP+ NIC vertical mounted behind my 3090. at least in an O11 dynamic xl you have enough room if you dont have a big active backplate.
NICE! But get the unifi Switch Enterprise XG 24 it's a fully managed, mult-gigabit, Layer 3 switch with (24) 10GbE RJ45 ports and (2) 25G SFP28 ports - $1,299 OUCH for me! For you I'm sure ubiquiti would send you one for free... but then you would probably get the UDM-PRO another POE switch for the wireless AP, the cameras for surveillance, an aggregation switch... talk to linus he has this, at least you would have content to show us! KEEP IT UP!
well I purchased my 10g switch off of ebay and it is a used Cisco UCS-6296UP Fabric Interconnect and it came with 96 10g sfp+ ports for ~120 USD including shipping (also happened to come with 60 sfp+ fiber modules that were not removed for the switch) and for that price you would be able to get sfp+ to rj-45 adapters for less than what you paid (or close to it) for the same connectivity
I had a 24-port gigabit switch with four fiber ports and it used those server fans. I just carved a big hole in the lid and stuck a 200 mm fan on top. It wasn't a rack mount so it was sufficient for keeping the noise and temps down.
You should 3D print a shroud to force the air to push or pull from the heat sink, the tape is going to collect dust and make the situation more turbulent in the long run.
Oh your god! I bought the exact same switch last month. I only needed 2 10Gb RJ45 ports but 8 is fine too. This was the cheapest rack-mountable at least semi-managed RJ45 10Gb switch I could find (didn't use Amazon). I dislike the Java management interface because Java is cancer but after the initial configuration I won't be playing with it anyway. My switch is in a closed rack within a closed room so I won't be "upgrading" my fans.
I did this same mod on a TP_Link PoE switch at home a few months back. The original fans had a really loud hum but with the Noctuas fitted, the noise is really greatly reduced.
I recommend used enterprise hardware. If You are on a budget for example the Aruba S2500-48P-4x10G 48-Port Gigabit PoE 4x10GB SFP Mobility Access Switch also silent and can be similarly upgraded. Can be also configured as a dumb Layer-2 switch. Many home labbers use this one as a 10G starting point including me.
I own several of MikroTik switches for my home lab. Jay, since you don't want to use advanced features or configure it go into the WebGUI and switch it to SwitchOS. This will give you much better performance. Make sure you update the RouterOS firmware first before switching it to SwitchOS.
I agree with this 100% and I will add something very important. Make sure you enable ARP Tables in Switch OS. This will give you a lightweight management scheme that significantly increases performance, reduces traffic, reduces switch fatigue and greatly increases the connection speed (also reduces lag). From Jay’s description of use case… this is what he is really after. Oh… it will also offload local traffic from your higher tier router.
Lesson: Just make sure ARP Tables is enabled in Switch OS. It’s one of those few simple options that has a dramatic effect of local network performance at a micro-price.
100% the right answer here. Being a system engineer and homelabber these 'server' videos are kinda funny to watch. "these switches sound like a whole server rack on it's own" haha tell me you haven't been in a DC without telling me.
@@pitspeedtv OK, never worked with MikroTik but I have a question. This is an honest question about how the switches run because standard networking goes against your statement. What exactly would using ARP tables on a switch running l2 communications do to help? Just curious because ARP tables are L3 (ip/mac) and the switch at L2 only cares about mac location because it is directing traffic based on mac to mac. It's going to look at the incoming frame and and see the destination MAC address and then send it out the corresponding port it has in its MAC table. It will never go to the ARP able unless it is also running router functions. Adding ARP tables to a switch that is not also doing routing is just overhead on the switch processes.
Another vote in support of this suggestion
@@joee7452 All good Joe. Good question(s).
You just pointed out the highlight of SwitchOS (I don’t work there, just tested extensively).
*traditionally* (this is where you are getting tripped up), ARP Tables are (and still are) reserved for Tier 3. The same place that VLANS, DHCP, and VPNs reside.
Ironically, this switch is underpowered (chipset) to handle any sort of VLAN, or VPN loads. This is where you would buy ubiquiti and such (therein lies the cost justification)
BUT….. What if you stripped away all of that and said this:
“Let me take my memory, and my processing power (traditionally reserved for managed tasks), and apply it to three simple tasks…”
The three tasks:
1. Query the ENTIRE network (including the tier 3 router) for matches on a local subnet, PER PACKET. (BTW unmanaged (T2) switches just send it to the tier 3 router, because they have no ARP tables, etc.) Traditionally, waiting for the reply, is the major cause of what we know today as Network LAG.
1a. What if we stored that and routed all proceeding packets at what would traditionally be considered tier 3, at Tier2?)
Before I go on… it is technically tier 3, but what if we could make it tier 2A? Not send it to the router/T3.
Network Lag becomes very apparent when you consider that every packet (big or small) needs to be parsed, and passed, and rerouted until a handshake occurs. Until it runs into a rule, or specific network instruction (Tier 3… internet router, etc.). The LAG comes with the waiting for reply and the timeout when none is received.
2. What if we had sufficient memory and processing power to maintain a simple list of successful handshakes and packet transfers (locally in the same subnet), and completed the handshake and transfer without needing to send it up to the “gateway”? Well that is an ARP table. No waiting, no LAG, and simple routing, handshake, packet completion.
At this point we are in traditional Tier 3 territory. But what if we could do it at tier 2? Or technically tier 2A.
3. Store and Parse not only the *known routes*, but detect and parse the packet size?
Again a typical tier 3 router function.
Well that is what SwitchOS does. In fact with the exception of #3, that is what a normal “dummy” switch does.
So you are correct about Tier2 and Tier3. SwitchOS is a beautiful hybrid. Strip away the VLANS, VPNs, etc. Just focus on LAN, and send it up if it doesn’t have a recognized subnet.
It’s a 10G Ferrari LAN, at a KIA price.
All of the bad reviews revolve around RouterOS and its inability to to VLANS and VPNs.
That is not where it shines.
Jay’s use-case is perfect for that switch… in SwitchOS.
The SFP+ version of that is cheaper, and you can use ethernet SFP+ adapters, as well as scale to fibre at less cost…. but the topic is Switch OS and ARP Tables. I digress.
You chose MikroTik. You chose well.
As others have commented, to make it run a little more efficiently (and boot faster), log into its management UI and switch it to SwOS (SwitchOS). Have to glance at the online guide since the UI is absolutely bonkers crazy.
Isn't SwOS an abandoned product full of bugs? Done any iperf throuput testing on yours using SwOS vs RouterOS to compare?
@@jasonsachinger3276 I wouldn't call it that; it's certainly not perfect but if you want switch throughput, SwOS is ideal on these MikroTik routers-I'm able to get multiple 10 Gbps paths through my CRS309s tested bidirectional with iperf3.
MikroTik is great for the price + reliability, especially if you don't care about the routing functionality (which can be dizzying to configure through their insane UI). If you want anything more fancy, you'll have to pay a lot more!
@@JeffGeerling Geez the mikrotik app on phones. Its quick setup section has been through a bunch of updates that improved its performance and usability, it can be quite good for most basic configs :) You can also run containers in latest routerOS dev update which might be up your alley :)
I think you should spend some more time on routeros and winbox. It is absolutely the best solution for switching and routing. Just make sure to use router hardware for routing and switching hardware for switching.
Mikrotik is terrific in terms of switching and routing. I have fully enjoyed learning the tools and tricks of ROS. Later down the road I might get a 24 port MT POE switch to replace my old Dell X1018P and RB2011 if call centers would quit hogging them all up.
Just a comment on the power supplies. Parallel on the capacitors there should be a discharge resistor that drains the capacitor. So after a few minutes it should be safe to touch. If in doubt don't touch it or measure it with a multimeter.
or if you're really concerned short it before working on it
@@killingtimeitself that is a possibility but the capacitors don't like that very much. It is possible that you damage the powersupply
@@robhofkes3221 It's better than the alternative, though.
@@danny_dan4323 The proper method is to get a power resistor and drain the caps with it instead of shorting them. But that's only if the circuit doesn't already have a bleed resistor, like Rob said.
Honestly unless you remove the power supply from the stud its on, theres almost no way to touch the terminal of those capacitor, even if a heatsink is say somehow connected to the negative pin, so what ? No path back to the positive, the only chance you might get shocked would be if you actively poke around the component pins on the board but thats also very little chance, its not plugged in, it wont create a path to gnd cause the stored charge on the cap isnt earth gnd reference
I know nothing about setting up a home server, but the topic has always been interesting to me. Maybe if these last 2 videos you put out get enough people's attention, a full 101 series about it (like you did with watercooling) would be cool. I envision one day having hard wired jacks in a few rooms in my house so I can always hardwire conveniently and this seems like the kind of setup I'd need for 2 purposes - accessing files from storage in 1 central location, and accessing the internet hardwired with a network cable
Just by some gear and start playing around, best way to learn.
I think this would be great idea, something for us noobs.
I know it might be irrelevant, but LTT has a VERY good video about that, and it's hosted by Anthony, it's called "Your old PC is your new server"
There are some really good RUclips channels on home networks that go into the gory details. I've learned a lot from them.
No disrespect to Jay, but networking is not his strength. Go to LTT or any of a dozen other popular tech channels that have networking chops, and there will be something already there for you.
Beside from this, another relatively "cheap" option for a 10G RJ45 switch that I can find is Unifi Switch Enterprise XG 24. With double the ports and price, but also with 2 extra 25G SFP28 uplink.
@jayztwocents - I implore you to please remove the 3M-tape you added! The glue is going to dry out from the heat and over time causing a mess for you to discover later. If you're concerned by the wider gap created by the shorter Noctua fan, you could 3D print a tiny shroud instead of using tape. Great mod otherwise!
Agreed. Or at least use that thin plastic sheet stuff he uses for themed cases in conjunction with the tape.
also the chassis lid sits right on that tape making it redundant. If anything its the sides to the heat sink I would worry about
Instead of using tape to direct the airflow, you could 3D print spacers that go between the fans and the metal chassis. That would push the fans back closer to the heatsink. Use the fans you took out as a measurement guide and eyeball the thickness of spacer needed.
3d print a fan duct go from 120mm to the stock size remove the area that's solid to increase flow and keep fan speed down
@@Mikeracing2005 but also you have to remember that in order to do that reduction the fan would need ridiculous static pressure for it to have decent airflow which would almost mitigate the advantages of using a smaller fan as higher speed = higher static pressure
I think their 3D print passion was short lived.
@@N0N0111 I don't necessarily think that is fair, I personally have a resin printer and an fdm printer like them and in my experience it is not always the best solution to 3d print something and also sometimes it is just completely unnecessary to do so
Or just spent 5 seconds with tape....
I'm sure you already know all this stuff Jay but I wanted to clarify for your audience some of the confusion around SFP+.
SFP/SFP+ is just a hot-swappable data transceiver used in data network applications. It isn't "Ethernet" or "Fiber". It's a layer 1 technology that only handles electrical and/or optical signaling. It is designed to add versatility to your network infrastructure by allowing the design to implement different carrier mediums (i.e. copper or fiber optic). In most network designs that use SFP/SFP+ technology you'll see either fiber optic modules or preassembled high speed copper modules/cables (called DACs or direct attached copper). However, SFP+ is also capable of supporting RJ45 for standard ethernet connectivity. So if you run into an issue like where Jay was saying he couldn't find an SFP card that would fit in his server, you can still use a "regular" ethernet card in the server and an RJ45 SFP+ module in the switch and everything will work fine. No need to worry about modifying any patch panels. In the case of what Jay is doing, personally, I would look around for an SFP+ card that will fit in the server and connect the server to the switch with a DAC. Especially if they're going to be living in the same rack. That would provide the most reliable connection between server and switch and is plenty capable of 10Gbe speeds (I've run 40 and 100 gigabit DAC connections between core switches in datacenters many times).
Just my two centz...
Good info. The issue that Jay was referring to at 1:37 is that the SFP+ cards (or any PCIE card for that matter) would not fit in their PCs that they use to edit videos because the PCs have vertical mount GPUs, NOT that the SFP+ card would not fit in the server. I assume their video editing rigs all have 10G ethernet on the motherboard.
@@kevinoneill2170 There are kinda small PCIE low profile SPF+ cards.
And that resolves the issue. as the most expensive thing are the 10G ethernet cards.
@@kevinoneill2170 Ah I see. Well, in that case, if they do have 10gbe built in then there shouldn't be a problem. I wonder if half-height cards would fit, in case the motherboard doesn't have built in 10gbe.
I think SFP+ DAC is better than CAT6 for short runs, lower latency and a lot cheaper. 10GB Ethernet is between £50 and £100 per end where as SFP+ cable is £20 and the cards are £30.
@@kevinoneill2170 I think what he means is that you can find SFP+ connectors that adapt to copper for Ethernet runs, instead of fiber. Either way, unless he has runs of Cat 6A (current ethernet standards) surpassing 100 meters (100 meters is the maximum rated distance for Cat 6A at 10Gbase-T), he shouldn't need to worry about SFP+ runs over Ethernet runs in the office/warehouse. The only real benefit of using fiber over copper, that I know of in this case, is that copper tends to get hot at 10Gbase-T.
Missed an opportunity to 3d print a little fan shroud. Blocking the sides would be more important than the top, since the lid itself covers the top. And I was curious if all of the fans were set to exhaust. I assume so. Overall a really nice mod. Definitely worth the extra 10%.
Came here to say the exact same thing. *owns 3d printer*, uses duct tape to make a shroud.
And maybe there will be a use for the removed fans somewhere at some point. They're not broken, just not very quiet.
@@andrewwaller8499 They might not have space to use the 3d printers right now.
Jay: God how does Noctua do it?
Noctua: We charge $15 for good fans, instead of selling $3 fans... LOL
Quality does make a difference.
Something to keep in mind. Noctua fans will not move the same amount of air as the ones he removed. And if you fill that router and load it up in a hot rack, it might overheat.
@@tudalex I don't think temps are really an issue so much as noise is...
I think those Delta fans are about 13 usd each (EFB0412VHD-F00). Also for specs Noctua 9.8 m3/h vs Delta 16.8 m3/h airflow
Edit if those are (TFA0412CN-CN) 40x40x28 mm then they are 20 usd each but move air about 4x noctua (43.0 vs 9.3 m3/h) and 17k rpm will happily slice you finger
That's pretty much it. I just wish the $3 fan makers would make fans for $6 that will likely be 80% as good as the Noctua's
i dont know why, but i really like network videos... seeing my favorite youtubers build servers and stuff is just so awesome! i hope to one day soon be able to afford to build a better server. i think it was Linus' video which showed how to build a cheap 'server' or NAS out of an old pc. thats exactly what i did. i have something like 11tb of storage on it, and it holds all my important stuff as well as some of my youtube videos, i also use it as a minecraft server from time to time... i lost about 80% of my original video files when i lost a hdd a few years back :( i have no redundancy which sucks. id love to pick up 4 4tb hdd's and have one as a redundant drive for backup.
cheers Jay! i cant wait to see more shop build videos! also, id love to see another silly clips compilation video haha!
Yeah I barely understand what each networking component does but still kinda interesting.
I love going on eBay and finding old Network gear to use.
I did the same for my mikrotik poe switch, 10gb switch and router. Such a change and cooling is quite stable.
Unifi's Switch Enterprise XG 24 is what we use in our rack. It has (24x) 10Gig RJ45 and (2x) 25Gig SFP28 ports. A little expensive at $1,299, but it is one of the better deals for that configuration (when it is in stock).
Yea, that has been Unifi's problem the last 2 years. allot of stock issues
I use these at my work as well - Great switch / ecosystem. But then again, I'm a ubiquiti fan boy.
I use Ubiquity everywhere i can except huge complex networks with critical infrastructure. I'm a bit of a fanboy... But they are changing the game when it comes to managing their stuff.
It's pretty much impossible to buy anything from ubiquiti right now. You can't throw money at them if you wanted.
@@corbosman and that is another big problem. If I can not get supplies than the product is useless to me
I purchased an older Extreme X670v-48t switch off of eBay for my house since I have fortunate enough to have Google Fiber. Works like a charm and came with some advanced licensing and four QSFP+ ports for 40 GB links to other switches. No PoE or NBaseT support but I have some other 1GBaseT switches for that. I had to get the QSFP cards for my X460-G2-48p-10GE4 units but I'm now in a near non-blocking scenario between my switches if everything were going full tilt. Regardless the old corporate unit path does get you a lot of your money in terms of hardware but you're also out of warranty.
There are a few 10 Gbit switches with 802.3bt (90W PoE) capable RJ45 ports but due to the supply shortage they're nearly impossible to get still. For work, I'm still waiting on a unit I ordered 15 months ago to arrive. For business usage they're not outrageous but not cheaper either new. In the SFP focused areas, things have quickly transitioned SFP28 capable ports for more bandwidth.
What is driving me crazy is the constant mentioning of 10GbaseT ports simply referred to as 'Ethernet' as if the SFP is not also Ethernet. Ethernet is a protocol that span different physical iterations based upon need.
I suspect if he'd said 10GBase-T each time half the audience would have been confused..
@@TonyHoyle It is about time to start using it as 2.5GbaseT and 5GbaseT are also available now for Ethernet in the consumer realm. 25GbaseT and 40GbaseT have specifications out there but I'm not aware of anyone using them in a datacenter, commercial or residential application.
I have heard of 40GbaseT4 being used in automative which is four 10GbaseT1 pairs bonded into a single 40 Gbit link. 10GbaseT1 is 10 Gbit as the name implies but over a single pair of copper wires, again only used in automotive applications.
12:11 I can't see how the tape would be necessary since the cover/lid serves that exact purpose.
Yea i said the same, it be better at the sides to create a tunnel, the lid being the top part. but pretty sure it wont last long since the "wind" will blow it of eventually. should 3D print a small box for that area using old fans as a template for size. that's how i would have done it. *shrugs*
Yep that gap make me notice those deltas are maybe 40x40x28 (TFA0412CN-CN) and each of them move 4x Noctua amount of air. I hope that don't get full load for long time or it maybe won't cool enough.
@@LimbaZero I'm surprised it has fans like that to start with.. It does say it's tested to 70C ambient though so I could imagine it needing them then..
Suspect once it's booted it'd have been pretty quiet anyway with the stock fans. It's just switching.. not even PoE, in an air conditioned room with presumably about 18C intake.
I did a similar fan mod with my G.Skill memory coolers. The stock white LED fans they used crapped out after only 5000 hours so I went and got four 40mm PWM Delta fans as replacements. Not only longer life but with PWM I can monitor/control them as well. Definitely happy with the result 👍
Last I checked the Hammerhead screwdriver doesn't exist for a reasonable price anymore. (That may have changed) But Skil has an almost identical screwdriver on amazon for about $35. It's a great buy.
$130 .... for a screedriver LOL..... there are some others that do the same work....
I already made a post not knowing you guys had mentioned the screwdriver but yeah, $130 is not cheap, expected $50 or less. Might have to take a look at the Skil, thanks Josh.
I have the Skil version and love it. Excellent screwdriver, and the circuit tester is damn handy if you’re working on lights or outlets in your house.
Yep, looking at the price history it used to be around $20.
Hammerhead was discontinued years ago, but the Skil is the same thing with only a different chuck.
but I will say the before and after switch from 3 pin to NT PWM is just incredible. great video, please can you update us on how they behave under heated condions in the rack.
I've got the 16 port SFP+ Mikrotik switch. It has served me well with 3 VM hosts, a storage server, wireless AP, and my main gaming machine all hooked to 10Gbe. It's the model with a huge heatsink off the back of the unit with two fans and is quite quiet. I have my main gaming machine and wireless AP hooked to it through SFP+ to 10gbase-T modules, which were like $48. The wireless AP even hooked to it at 2.5Gb, but the switch shows it at 10Gb. The 10Gbase-SR modules were only like $10 each, and the om3 cables I used were dirt cheap compared to cat6 cables.
But that's just me. I prefer fiber because of the lack of EM interference. You do what you need.
Exact same switch and love it. Rock solid after three years!
MikroTik makes good stuff
you should absolutely consider a SFP+ card on the NAS with a DAC cable to the SFP+ port on the switch
Usually I skip content creator's ads, because they are so much scripted and boring. But JayzTwoCents iFixit and World of Warships ads are the exception. They are so much entertaining, that I sometimes go back and watch them again!
Pretty sure you should be charged with a minor misdemeanor for skipping his made ads. That or I believe it says in the Bible that you are to be publicly stoned to death for skipping it.
Exactly the same here LOL
You are not alone there :) The iFixit ads that Jay did tend to brighten the day(s)
Seen it so much i skip them too, but Jay and his team makes the best for sure.
Me too 😂
Hey Jay. Mikrotik is pretty good. I have a 10GbE SFP+ passively cooled switch from them and it's solid. The problem with 10Gb RJ45 is that it's super power inefficient so that's why you need the crazy cooling and why you don't see many switches with a lot of 10Gb RJ45 ports. There's really not a good solution if you want more ports and only one switch. Those Noctua fans are great also, I've used them to quiet many cranky switches. Some switches have a nonstandard 3 pin wire order and that's what the connection kit is for. No soldering required, just snaps on to the wires.
You mean not many switches for regular home like use right? 10g RJ45 is pretty much a standard at the business level for new copper equipment and has been for years now (especially server side). Seeing TOR switches of 48/96/128 10gE ports or chassis with 8+ line cards of 48 port 10gE copper is pretty normal. Not cheap, but pretty standard like 1g was before.
@@joee7452 Completely disagree. 10GbE SFP+ networking is standard at the business level server side, and quickly moving to QSFP+ 25GbE. I have no idea what crazy person would ever run 10GbE RJ45 in racks on purpose. That's ridiculous.
@@icebalm This. IMO 10G RJ45 only kinda makes sense for home and small business because it can make use of existing ethernet runs over small distances. But in actual server racks then anything over 1G is going to be SFP+ and QSFP+.
I have the passiveley-cooled CRS309 in my home rack and it works wonders. I also have the CRS305 floating around somewhere and thinking about getting a CRS317 which is 16 ports and about $220 cheaper than the 12 port switch in this video. 🦊🤘
@@icebalm Umm, so you would have no grandfathered equipment? No servers with IMM controls? No Servers that have a mix of copper and fiber because most servers come with onboard copper and fiber is typically an IO add. Why would I spend more to add Fiber to a server that would be fine with copper interfaces that are on board? Why would I ignore using those copper interfaces for things like ESXi admin links so I can reserve the fiber 10g (or more) for host communication? Why would I limit myself to a 1g copper switch if I can use a 10g and still provide connections to both 1g and 10g cards? Outside of the datacenter, If I am putting in new access level switches and cabling, why wouldn't I go with a 10g copper switch and cat 6a or 7 cabling to have the availability of 10g to the desktop?
Datacenter networking is a mix usually of copper 100m-100g and 1g-400g fiber now with more speeds coming. I even have some Inifiniband around. There is a place for all types depending on what you need it to do. To just say that there is no reason to use 10g means you really haven't worked in a normal datacenter.
@@joee7452 I'm saying 10Gb RJ45 is power inefficient and produces a lot of heat so it's not generally used. Of course 1Gb RJ45 is still used for management ports and such, but SFP's are much more efficient for higher speeds and what is generally used in datacenters. You're also confusing connectors with cable types. Generally you'd use DAC cables to connect devices in the same rack since its much more cost effective.
If you're putting in new access switches and cabling and require 10Gb to desktops you should use SFP+ switches and run single mode fiber because it's a lot cheaper than CAT6a/7 and will support higher speeds in the future. SFP+ switches are more versatile because you can get RJ45 SFPs if you need them. If you don't require 10Gb to devices just run CAT5e and call it a day.
There is no reason to use 10Gb RJ45 in the datacenter.
Recently redid my home LAN with 48-port gigabit switch from a data center. It was on ebay for under $40, for real network hardware, not trash 5-port plastic boxes. Gigabit is all I need at home. The internet is gigabit, as are my modem and router and all my PCs. So this gigabit switch replaced multiple daisy chained consumer switches with just one I can manage any way I want. It has a fiber upgrade option if I ever need it. So for me and my needs, and the super performance, I could not be happier. Decommissioned data center gear still has a ton of value in a SoHo setting.
I did similar but I added another network alongside. Most of my servers and gear is in one place so I bought some SFP+ 10Gbps dual port cards and daisy chained my servers together and the end one connects to the SFP+ card in my PC. When I want to access files from my PC I can reach all of my servers over the dedicated 10Gig network. No switch required. The cards and cables are not very expensive.
I had a NetGear 10G RJ45 switch a few years back at work - swapped its extremely loud internal fan with a Noctua, that fixed it and made it workable in an office. Keep that unit well-ventilated, those 10G-base-T ports generate a lot of heat.
I agree about the packaging! I got some of those for my 3D printer Inwas modding. They are nice! I endednup with a spare, so one blows on my RAM now.
Regarding the "smell of electronics" it made me think about how much I miss the smell of a new game manual!! Not only do we hardly get manuals, we hardly get a physical game! (For PC at least).
It’s funny everyone around the world seems to have this “game manual smell fetish” 😄 Still remember the days as a little kid getting a new game. First thing you did was stick your nose in the manual and took a big sniff
Doubt you will read this but the resolution for daisy chaining switches is to get stackable switches that use a 40+ Gbps backplane to transfer data between them or you can setup most managed switches to have 2-4 ports in a LAG to get 20-40Gbps between the switches.
Yeah, use two of it's SFP+ ports in LAG to maintain 10Gbps speed and 20Gbps bandwidth.
I am loving these office reno videos!!! Keep em coming!!!! Also, happy Thursday y'all!!!
Thank you for the hammerhead details. I use a Skil driver that looks about identical to yours except that it's red/black. I'm on my second driver of that type and they are great and were especially handy when I had problems because of carpal tunnel narrowing.
Being an IT guy and a system builder myself, I can't believe it took as long as it did for me to come across your channel. I've been binging on all of your content for the past week and a half! Top notch stuff bro! I have the final parts coming for my mixed use gaming/editing rig tomorrow so I'll be binging again while I build. Repurposed i7-10700, 32gb, 2070 Super, enough LEDs to give my cat seizures (not really but sounded funny). Still rocking my Cooler Master tower cooler too, from 2005! The bracket that came with it has fit everything from an FX-8350 right up to my current build (the i7). I almost went AIO but I just can't give up this cooler (original fan too but I'm replacing it with an LED this time).
Enjoy! I built a similar rig during the pandemic (i7 10700KF, 32GB, M.2 NVME OS drive with an insanely overpriced EVGA 3070) and it rocks pretty much anything I throw at it game-wise or image- & video- wise at high to ultra settings. 😁 That's at 3440 x 1440 btw. 😃
(edit: added screen resolution!)
@@mnemonik61 Very nice! I was fortunate that my boss wanted to give his kid's gaming rig an update so when he bought the 2070 he ordered 2 and handed me one.
We just started using these at our company as well and seem to be working really well(small user group, extremely large file sizes). Didn't want the hassle of switching out a ton of equipment for sfp and easier for base IT staff to support.
Looks like Jay showing the brand name has made that screw driver the most expensive on Amazon, most are in the $30 range, that one is now $110
£292 on amazon uk......robbing b'stards
@@lexcars42 $130 now....lol
I just bought my first NAS recently and I’m diving into the networking side of IT lately, Im glad to see you do some networking focused content recently.
I wonder if you can set the fans to a minimum speed so they don't have to crank up all the time and make it quieter in the long run
I found your screwdriver on Amazon UK, only £292 or $333... We actually offer fan swaps on the gear we install, sometimes the client needs the speed but can't have the noise.
The suggestion to run switchOS is exactly spot on. These are no good in router mode, but baller in switch mode. I have them all over the place as storage switches and they work great.
I went with Unifi products from Ubiquiti for my network. Been rock solid for almost a year since now. Their hardware can be a bit difficult to acquire sometimes, though.
Ubiquiti is a lot easier to figure out and set up. Mikrotik might be better and cheaper though.
Ubiquiti is simpler, but I don't like the cloud centric approach their unifi line uses. Not for something simple like switches. I don't like that they can end of life a perfectly working product like they did with their access points. I can no longer manage them from the controller.
@@ferdievanschalkwyk1669 Agreed. I still love my UAP-AC-LR, but when it comes time to upgrade or expand I'll probably look elsewhere. I downgraded for a while after the USG-integration firmware update, to get some features back, but bug-fixes and other improvements basically forced me to just take the L.
I like their piecemeal radio systems more. Great stuff for building out mixed media networks in rural environments. The UniFi systems can create problems if there is a discontinuity in network management. I had that happen to me. Ended up with a UniFi subnet that was unrecoverable because no one knew the password for the key and that left a bunch of units bricked because they cannot be factory reset to associate with a new key unit.
Mikrotik is better for "hacker" types who wanna be able to do anything. Ubiquiti is good for quick setup, SDN, and Single-Pane-of-Glass
I have everything from 100Mb to 40Gb QSFP+ in my setup.
Use Cat5/6 for anything outside the rack or management interfaces.
Use SFP with DACs in rack. Use fiber only for 100m+ long runs.
You said no switch to switch, but you COULD easily get a 2nd one, and use 2 of the SFP+ ports with a short DAC cable and bind them for effective 20Gbs between the switches, you will hard pressed to push the full 10Gb between 2 ports anyway, so this would not be much of a bottleneck.
No, you can't. That's not how LAGG works.
You get 2 10Gbps links. You don't get 20Gbps. Frame headers get hashed and if you're lucky, 2 clients get sent down different links. That's not always the case in instances of piss-poor hashing algorithms used to load-balance the LAGG.
@@AC-cg4be No one said you get 20Gb at once, but YOU CAN get 2x 10Gb connections across it at once. There are only 10Gb ports available, why would you think 1 connection would reach 20Gbs?
I bought a Skil screwdriver that's identical (except it is, of course, red, and probably more expensive) several months ago. Love it!
Mikrotik is great for the value brought. I've used their switches in many setups.
They are, but they have a very steep learning curve. I would say only for power users.
I have several for my home lab. I suggested to Jay to switch it to SwitchOS to make it easier to manage and get better performance.
@@Darkk6969 I would agree. The switchos is so fast that the first time I updated, I assumed it didn't work because the ui was back so fast
I see these things in rural ISP networks and mobile racks and stuff like that, where their Swiss Army Knife traits are often useful. They're not as reliable as the market leader products, and I cringe when I see them in places where uptime is a consideration. But, they're cheap enough to throw them away and replace with a new one when they fail.
From what I understand, they also do all of their processing in software, so they'll never be as fast as a switch with a real data plane. You get what you pay for.
@@nickwallette6201 that is incorrect. The Mikrotik switches use ASIC's and switch the packets in hardware.
You can hit 10G wirespeed on every port simultaneously without any slow down
The adhesive of tape doesn't like heat. You could 3d print (plenty of online services if you don't have a printer) a part to direct the airflow on all sides. Or simply use foam or poster board, CA glue, and an exacto knife to make a much better air guide for your $600 switch.
Me and a friend did the same mod to a cisco switch, be aware that you need to check the pin out of the header as cisco use a none standard pinout.
It works great, those fans are beautifully quiet and is well worth doing if you're buying a used rack mount switch
I love that all of this is happening because I’m currently reading for Network+ certification and I’m going over this stuff right now.
MikroTik is amazing, been using it for nearly 15 years.
It has a fairly steep learning curve if you’re a novice. As stated, use SWOS
Those little Noctua fans come in handy a lot. i use them in my switch, in my DVR for CCTV, also in my Yamaha receiver to keep amp cooler. tinker tinker.
If you have trouble getting full 10G speeds these usually come by default with MTU set to 1500 and to get the full performance you will need to set it to 9000 manually (unless they changed it over the years) also don't forget to upgrade to ROS v7.
Its supposed to have a 1 button update. We will definitely check it out once its booted.
10G ethernet equipment has been apparently pretty difficult
Jumbo Packet will destroy the collision frequency unless EVERY connected device supports it and set so.
@@Jayztwocents First upgrade the OS (System, Packages) and then upgrade firmware (System, Routerboard). Reboot after each step.
@@BenState Jup and basically goes for all nodes and not all of them wil support it. I’d usually saved upping the mtu for separate iscsi networks.
That is a quiet switch, nice touch with PWM control. Anyone that says that is loud has it in their bedroom. Get a Foundry if you want loud. I think you are going to have heat issues with the Noctua fans with the switch under load.
But, I don't see your office burying that switch like I would in a data center
I have some concerns and would love to see an update video if the management software reports temperature. I've looked into using those same Noctua 40s in a 1U server I have, and the CFM just doesn't come close to the fans that came in it. It has dual Xeon X5650s, so I haven't attempted at risk of just wasting the money on a whole bank of them
Test it. Keep in mind all servers is made for worst case scenario. A 42U rack filled with 1U servers and intake temperature of say 22-23c. They need to push a f-ton of air to combat a situation like that with utilization at 100%.
@@rolf7072 And what do I do with 8 to 16 40mm fans if it doesn't cut it for two Xeons? I agree with just testing the switch. But still curious what the thermals are if the interface reports
@@rolf7072 I love Noctua fans and try to use them wherever I can, but I tried to replace a loud 92mm CPU fan (3,000 RPM, I think, might have been 4,000) with a Noctua and the reduction in airflow was so severe that the fan was completely incapable of cooling the CPU and it thermal throttled REALLY hard. Noctua fans will beat the noise levels of any other fan in a comparable performance envelope, but they're not meant to push a ton of air regardless of noise. Their industrialPPC fans are the closest they get to that, where they have much higher RPMs than their normal fans, but they only make those in 120mm and 140mm sizes.
It's funny. As it turns out, RPM, CFM, and noise tend to be directly correlated. :-) There's usually very little difference between almost any two fans that run at the same speed, pushing the same amount of air.
There's a bit of motor noise difference, but it's often just that they sound _different,_ and one might be more or less annoying or noticeable.
There's vibration, which can be amplified by the surrounding sheet metal or whatever. But you can use isolation mounts on _any_ fan to tame that problem.
The main contributor to noise is the air buffeting on surfaces around the fan. Through the heatsink, against the grille, etc. The only way to quiet that is to change the volume of air moving through those turbulent areas (lower RPM), which affects thermals, or change the properties of the physical items in the path so that the air buffets less.
Or, if you have the option, change the path of air entirely so that there isn't so much turbulence so close to the fan blades. (For example, using ducts instead of fans directly mounted to a heatsink or, like in the case of the switch, to the perforated grille.)
Your right, those original fans are made for high capacity air flow, Noctua fans are made to be quiet and they run at an slower rpm.
Ubiquiti is a fantastic option as long as you can get your hands on the equipment. Great ecosystem and solution if you are looking for prosumer grade equipment for networking AND security. They have switches, routers, cameras, and even badge readers for employees to access buildings. Worth looking into for sure. Love my setup at home. Manage it anywhere and local DVR so no fees for anything.
10G RJ45, 10G SFP+ (Be it RJ45, SR, LR etc) are physical layer connections (SFP = Small Formfactor Pluggable) - all are Ethernet, or at least in your use case. But SFP+ SFP28, QSFP28, QSFP56 etc do not in fact have to run Ethernet, you can use Fibre Channel, Infiniband etc in that form factor.
Just a FYI for educational purposes.
10G RJ45 consumes more power then (and requires more cooling) than SFP+ SR or LR, so would be nice to see the switch when it is in fact under load re how the fan mod works out as factory fan vs new fan you did not say the RPMs.
Another thing to consider here is the cable run length as 10G RJ45 has a much shorter cable run length (30m or 98.42 feet on cat 6E) unless you are installing Cat 7 and even then not good for higher speeds.
One point for using fibre is if you installed OM4 then you are able to upgrade down the line to 25G,50G,100G,200G and 400G (and soon 800G) - this pays only depending on how long to plan on staying in that location.
No one should be running OM4 fiber. Use single mode. The cost difference between them is negligible and SMF will easily support any speed now and most likely in the future.
Good info. What about the issue that Jay was referring to at 1:37 that the SFP+ cards (or any PCIE card for that matter) would not fit in their PCs that they use to edit videos because the PCs have vertical mount GPUs? Is there a way to solve that problem? I assume their video editing rigs all have 10G RJ45 ethernet ports on the motherboard.
@@DLJaspah I've heard OM4 fiber can be a lot more durable tho, one claim here was "you can tie it in knots".
Now, I'm assuming that they're saying it will still work after you do that, but that's still quite impressive for fiber optics (assuming you untie it, fiber optics can only make light bend so much after all without getting high losses, or maybe I'm wrong about that)
The thing is that I've heard fiber optics is somewhat fragile, and if I was gonna run it in my house well it's gotta be able to make tight turns inside my walls.
Thoughts?
@@DLJaspah The cost difference will be in the transceivers, MMF vs SMF transceivers are much cheaper.
@@kevinoneill2170 The card needed for a dual port 10/25G is a low profile (HHHL), I guess this would come down to wanting the speed over the bling of a vertical mounted GPU (or get a bigger case).
Those Noctua fans are awesome. I put a pair in the front of a 1U server I built. They're so silent that I have them running full blast in the rack. They're much quieter than the Supermicro 2U sitting further down.
I deploy Mikrotik gear at work and have a couple of their routerboards, including an LTE router in my truck. Amazingly powerful devices. But definitely put that in SwOS mode if you're just using it as a switch.
so exciting to see the office come together
If you’re going from desktops then copper makes sense.
Fiber optic makes sense in data centers because fiber optic trunk cables for structured cabling (patch panel to patch panel connections) are much thinner and are impervious to EMI which can be an issue with thousand of servers, switches, PDUs etc. around.
Plus nowadays everything moving to 25Gb for compute nodes and 40/100Gb for switch uplinks, having fiber infrastructure with OM4 fiber makes sense for upwards compatibility.
I'm a network admin, and I don't recommand this mod for business switches.
Even if it have the same size, fans don't have the same CFM ! It can potentially cause a overheat issue in high load situations.
Be careful and read the fan datasheet, the CFM can be hard to find on documentation.
It was curious though that there were pwm pins on the board. Still, totally agree with you about the CFM rating.
@@darkhunterkiller4602 I've already made the same move on a old cisco 2950, without problem...even if the tiny noctua have a smaller cfm...but here, when we see the rad size, I guess this case can be really hot...I dont know this brand, dont know if you can monitor t° or use the pwm into the system
@@david79781 Hopefully it doesn't blow up on Jay! lol
I work for an ISP and we spec these. Love Mikrotiks for most local office and Small home office builds. RouterOS is also pretty nice once you get used to it.
I love your ads. They make what is usually a really boring and tedious segment of a creator's RUclips video into something which is fun and exciting to watch.
They are loud and obnoxious I skip it every time
I'd recommend getting the Unifi Switch Enterprise XG 24 when it comes back into stock. Gives you 24 10GB ports with 2 25GB SFP+28 ports for $1299.
I would print a cover/ fanshroud for that heatsink. Would be interesting how that makes a difference on load.
That would be a cool mod.
Jay, as a long time viewer and just as a tech guy in general. Do not apologize for the mess or work going on. You are improving yourself, your company and every viewer on the platform. Sure thing let us know, but never apologize for improving yourself dude.
He recommended everyone to buy a video card. While since then they dropped massively in Value. He only thinks of his own wallet.
Ubiquiti switches would be good with the cloudkey and u6-lr AP’s
I wouldnt go with the cloud key. I would go UDM Pro SE -> Enterprise X24 -> u6 AP (LR is overkill in that space).
Use the Unifi design center, do a quick florplan and the plop in the APs to see how many you need and what type.
Jay, take this with a grain of salt as I don't know the dimensions of your area... however I would have highly suggested a 10G SFP+ switch w/ 25/48g uplink ports for other switches... That way depending on where in the building the rack would be and endpoint compatibility you would be able to adjust according to the needs.
Anything over 30m and you start having issues w/ 10G & higher speeds over copper. This would also allow you to pick & choose network capabilities, that way you could choose a 1/2.5/5/10G copper SFP+ module to drive your PC, and Phil could get a higher speed SFP+ module w/ fiber to plug into a more powerful NIC on his PC to give him higher priority to internal bandwidth to the server w/ a higher speed NIC installed in that as well.
He did wired the building with CAT6a so it'll work fine at 10 gig. Nothing crazy long lengths either.
I accidentally click this video but I minus well watch it now😂
My guy said “minus well”
I’ve replaced quite a few 1U network gear and server fans with those Noctua fans. You lose some airflow but since the airflow is designed to be up to 100F ambient usually it’s totally fine. Especially those delta ear death fans. Soooooo loud. After swapping the fans then your only question is “Is the fan on/still working?” - I just always crack them open first to check exact size, voltage, and if it can do (4 pin)PWM or not. They’ve always been well worth it. And honestly….with some that are 6+ years of 24/7 service and no failures I feel like they’re more reliable than the original fans.
I do this to almost every switch i get :) you could have also just tried installing the LNR adapters instead of re-moving the fans.
Removing*
off topic but you have great content dude!
@@Alichakkour39 who ?
Those little Noctua fans are SO CUTE!
As a network engineer this type of content is like christmas
Especially when people are using more advanced equipment like from Mikrotik rather than the typical more simple small to medium business equipment that most normal people think about like Ubiquiti.
I’m still trying to figure out how to properly hardwire all the PCs and consoles. 🫠
While it doesn't really fit your needs right now the Brocade ICX6610-48P-E is a great enterprise server switch you can get for sub $200 used and it has 8x SPF+ 10Gb ports and 48 1GbE ports. You do have to work around the software lock on the 10Gb SPF+ ports but there are resources online for that. Aruba S2500-24P is also a good option for used enterprise server switches.
I was expecting a water cooled custom loop 🤷🏼♂️😂
Already been done by LTT. While it's cool but not worth the hassle of building it.
@@Darkk6969 brilliant just watched that video 😁 100% not worth the effort lol
I did the same mod on my Unifi USG4-Pro. It was loud as hell before but with the Noctuas I can't hear it. You are absolutely right, they are wizards.
7:59 No soldering iron required. If the fans in your switch did not have a standard 3-4 pin header, you would cut the ends off of both fans (new and old) and connect the old fan connector to your new Noctua fans with the kit. Insert the black wires in one connector and use pliers to secure them, do the same with the red wires. In the end you will have a new fan with the original fan's connector.
The switch may have a PWM header but the software controlling the fan is set to DC mode, I would remove the PWM wire.
10Gb RJ45 Ethernet ports run hotter than fiber SFP+, fiber runs hotter than Direct Attach Copper (DAC) SFP+. SFP+ RJ45 transceivers run the hottest.
All those connections are crimped.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino To me it is akin to a 110 patch panel. The wire is forced into opposing blades that cut the jacket of the wire to make the connection.
I tried those Noctua fans in a new rack-mount NAS last year. They are slower and have a lower pitch than the Synology fans. Sure, they were way more quiet, but the NAS overheated and shut down in under an hour.
I know I'm used to enterprise kit but man that switch must have been super cheap, I hope so, it looks compromised to hell - at least it has dual PSUs
He says in the video. $600 switch, and each fan was $14 (x4).
@@dividion8102 Sorry, thank you
You can't use patch panels with DAC cables, and even for fiber you can't just cut a cable and terminate it into a patch panel. Then on the front of the patch panel you can't easily get fiber cables shorter than 50cm/20" so you end up with a mess of excess if the switch and the patch panel are right next to each over. You can get as short as 15cm/6" lengths but they are usually made to order.
i work for a case manufacturer that also makes server chassis and we use tons of noctua fans. they always win man.
Thank you for showing this Jay I was in need of somethin like this nought it and the fans immediately.
Jay: My advice would be to use this switch for your computers and server, then get a second switch like the Mikrotik CSS326-24G-2S+RM for your (relatively) low-speed devices like the cameras, DVR, and eventually your maker equipment. This will also keep your main switch from having to deal with the constant network overhead caused by the cameras/DVR talking to one another. This will give you plenty of room to grow while also reserving 10Gb ports for machines that actually NEED them.
Great Name 😂👌
I personally own that switch. There is a Firmware update that quiets it down to almost inaudible. First thing I did out of the box.
Also to note, this running in SWos has been rock solid stable for me for the last two years. The only time it get's rebooted is when the power goes out long enough for my UPS to die, or when I do a firmware update on it (which is rare). 100% stand by both this 12 port and the 5 port little passively cooled 10GBe switch. Both are awesome.
The 24 port 1 gig Netgear switch I was given by my geek pro system builder and networking buddy has a extremely loud fan in it. I figured my home network would never stress it enough to get hot so I just unplugged the fan. So far it has been fine, fast, no problems. It's not on the level yours is but it just works and I have more ports than I'll ever need with luck. I doubt you could get away with that with that monster but some users out there might get away with it if they have a similar older switch that is stupid loud and you have it where you can actually hear it.
Wow, I am legit amazed how much difference that made for you. I guess I shouldn't be, because Noctua. But I am. Cool demonstration.
Working as a network engineer I can tell you that Mikrotik is some of the cheapest proper network gear you will ever own. If you need to get to 10Gb uplinks look perhaps the the RB4011 or CCR series. The later can get a bit expensive but its rock solid and just works, it doesnt want to stop routing for as long as it lives. Should you require assistance configuring such router, don't hesitate to give a shout.
Ok FYI. When Jay was talking about the Power supply and it being charged that depends on something. In order to make sure the caps are discharged the best way to do with without using a bridge resistor is to disconnect the power supplies from the mains outlet while the device is still running. Is is true for all AC to DC power supplies. The reason for this is while the PSU is still running, if you pull the plug, so to speak, the PSU will pull the power from the caps, remember, the caps are just there to hold reserve power to prevent the power from dropping below a certain threshold. if the PSU is on when disconnected it will pull the power from the caps until there is no more voltage left and then shut down
I used to work for a WISP that used those for the routing to customers and it worked great. Every now and then a port might go out but you are talking about a ton of data running through it and it was in an a/c cabinet that was outside so I am sure that it will work just fine for you. We used a program called winbox to access the gui for it and it was fairly easy to use. You can also get 10g ethernet sfp for the 4 slots to add more ports. I have removed the power supplies on those to a DC connection before and didn't have any problems so I am pretty sure you are safe.
Nice set up Jay! No worries about the code, we all know your very busy! Thanks for including 2!!!! Rock on!!!!
I work in IT and I run a cloud host. I love mikrotik. They have larger switches but you can do more than 1 switch, I would have a “core” switch and then the “lan” switches off of it. Daisy chaining becomes a problem when you get more than 3 deep and they are not managed.
Mikrotik is pretty much almost used in our radio broadcast setups, but are meant to use in a server room. Where other servers are placed, that also makes a lot of noise. It's strange you didn't let the boys make any apart space for the rack. Ubiquiti has some very good things too, mostly used in real server rooms.
Funny seeing the ifixit ad now, now that the inventory problem has been fixed. I hope you guys are planning on updating it. :)
No Jay, those are the best bang for buck and are rock solid, I have lots of MikroTik switches in my home and server rack, never had a single problem with any of them since I got them 5 years ago.
Same here! I love em! Oh, they're releasing several new AX6 wifi devices! (finally!)
Love your video Jay. I did find the screw driver you have. It is called HAMMERHEAD 4V Lithium Rechargeable Screwdriver with Patented Circuit Sensor. In case anyone else is looking for it.
My ISP buddies use these in their core switching fabric
CRS326-24S+2Q+RM
$599 RRP
It's 24 sfp+ ports (10gig) and two QSFP+ ports (40gig)
High port number 10gig copper switches are not very popular and your options will likely always limit you. Best to commit to fibre for all in-rack connections and then install S+RJ10 rj45 modules for cable runs to the PCs.
I have a 24 Port ethernet and two Port 10 gig fiber mikrotik switch deployed in a small video game Lounge environment and it works great. Not as loud as yours with stock fans but definitely not as quiet as noctua.
One of the SFP plus ports goes to unraid for game dl caching. Always fun to see server upload numbers pop up into the multiple gigabit range while the entire Lounge downloads a game
@JayzTwoCents i had an SFP+ NIC vertical mounted behind my 3090. at least in an O11 dynamic xl you have enough room if you dont have a big active backplate.
NICE! But get the unifi Switch Enterprise XG 24 it's a fully managed, mult-gigabit, Layer 3 switch with (24) 10GbE RJ45 ports and (2) 25G SFP28 ports - $1,299 OUCH for me! For you I'm sure ubiquiti would send you one for free... but then you would probably get the UDM-PRO another POE switch for the wireless AP, the cameras for surveillance, an aggregation switch... talk to linus he has this, at least you would have content to show us! KEEP IT UP!
Mikrotik makes solid gear, been using it for years, and have even built ISP's using it.
well I purchased my 10g switch off of ebay and it is a used Cisco UCS-6296UP Fabric Interconnect and it came with 96 10g sfp+ ports for ~120 USD including shipping (also happened to come with 60 sfp+ fiber modules that were not removed for the switch) and for that price you would be able to get sfp+ to rj-45 adapters for less than what you paid (or close to it) for the same connectivity
I had a 24-port gigabit switch with four fiber ports and it used those server fans. I just carved a big hole in the lid and stuck a 200 mm fan on top. It wasn't a rack mount so it was sufficient for keeping the noise and temps down.
You should 3D print a shroud to force the air to push or pull from the heat sink, the tape is going to collect dust and make the situation more turbulent in the long run.
It's Duct Tape, doing it's job.
Oh your god! I bought the exact same switch last month. I only needed 2 10Gb RJ45 ports but 8 is fine too. This was the cheapest rack-mountable at least semi-managed RJ45 10Gb switch I could find (didn't use Amazon). I dislike the Java management interface because Java is cancer but after the initial configuration I won't be playing with it anyway. My switch is in a closed rack within a closed room so I won't be "upgrading" my fans.
I just got a new POE switch for my home network and was going to do this exact thing. Thanks for the handy link to those fans!
I did this same mod on a TP_Link PoE switch at home a few months back. The original fans had a really loud hum but with the Noctuas fitted, the noise is really greatly reduced.
I recommend used enterprise hardware. If You are on a budget for example the Aruba S2500-48P-4x10G 48-Port Gigabit PoE 4x10GB SFP Mobility Access Switch also silent and can be similarly upgraded. Can be also configured as a dumb Layer-2 switch. Many home labbers use this one as a 10G starting point including me.
At 10:09 I literally said "Don't do that!" perfectly in time with you 🤣🤣🤣