@@huskadog7748 itd supposed to say no one* not no, sorry abt that 😭 basically: even though the bunker is a skippable area (like alvin), most people think the bunker is suspicious
"Is the Knight a Lighter?" Well, have we seen Deltarune's Grillby yet? No, so there is a non-zero chance that he could be the knight. Close to zero, but hey!
Regarding chess theory, I think there are two very plausible fixes to alvin knight that would fit into the story telling, that I could definititely see toby doing 1) The more possible one- We fight the knight in chapter 4 but they are disguised in armor. They escape without their identity being discovered. In chapter 5 we will fight the bishop, who ends up being alvin, who also reveals himself as the knight. A way this could play out is that after you originally defeat the masked knight, you start to track him down. After chasing him to the next dark world (the church- a perfect place for alvin of all people to hide in-) you slowly start to uncover that the knight and the bishop are in fact the same person, so when you end up fighting “the bishop” its actually just another fight against alvin. The second way this could play out is the reverse of that. You fight the bishop (alvin) first, which would “clear” alvin from being the knight in the eyes of the player (you already encountered and fought him), but then upon running into the knight later on its revealed that alvin lied after his bishop defeat and it really was him all along. I definitely see route 1 as being much more likely but both could happen, and if you just consider that you could end up fighting the “knight” canonically twice it makes a lot more sense Also- Its possible that noelle is the bishop, considering that she ends snowgrave with a violent act of rebellion against kris (“I will kill berdly- but just so you stop asking and also to prove how bad of an idea this is!”), so its possible noelle strays from the protagonist path and does a classic silly girl charecter gets confused and turns briefly evil moment but I think noelle would end up being the pawn if anything (While im spitballing ralsei could also be the pawn because as susie points out, ralsei actively leaves all their decisions in charge of kris. Something like “Hey why does kris get to make all the choices?” In chapter two before susie grabs ralsei and runs off with them- which even further cements that ralsei is under the control of susie as well.
Personally I think CH4 will have 2 bishops (same for CH3 with Rooks) and they'll both be darkners whilst CH5 will have 2 Knights but one will be a darkner and the other will be the knight. (Also CH6 will have the last 2 pawns as a main boss and a secret boss but CH7 will still have a secret boss.)
I definitely think Alvin knight is plausible - most of the evidence against him is narrative, in that we haven't seen how the overarching themes (coming of age, social images, the nature of friendships and fiction) connect to him separately from his father. The main thematic connection he DOES fit, too, is the sort of "flawed family situations" theme that'd include Gerson by default. It's very possible to make those themes work; Toby's just a narrative enough writer that I'm leery until the groundwork actually gets laid. I guess it makes sense that Mayor/Carol Knight is my favorite, then. We know next to nothing concrete about her, only that she's seen as cold and fastidious (which can be unpacked almost as easily as Kris). She's actively orchestrating the festival, reflected by half of Cyber World and specifically Jevil in ch.1. She's THE authority in town, directly mirroring King, Queen, and presumably Tenna. Her two family members are the biggest new characters outside the $!$! Squad themselves, even before noelle's glitch/Dess foreshadowings pay off. Hell, there's even pun real estate available with "Knightmay'r Night" and "Fountain Pen" being sick as hell song names.
I personally don't like her as Knight because she's already been explored. She's Queen in all senses besides literally being Queen, just like Susie is Lancer and King is her father. The characters in the dark world are being used to explore their lightener counterparts, so why would the Mayor be the Knight when she has already served a narrative purpose and has been characterized through Queen? The puns are fun, but the Mayor is just as mysterious as Susie's dad, they've been explored, the characters just need to complete their arcs through them as they experienced growth through their counterpart.
HEY I WAS THE DUDE WHO TALKED ABOUT GERSON/ALVIN INITIALLY!! Yes, he may not be the knight; but LORDS CAN KNIGHT PEOPLE. And if Gerson is dead? The Lord of the Hammer; his title passes on to his firstborn child. (Either Alvin, Ms. Boom, or maybe some other Boom child) Not alot of concrete ideas to that- but it's just a small thought.
""Too many excess vacation days???? Take a goddamn vacation straight to hell!"" is both a reference to Burgerpants and to an Exception Access Violation in computer code (where a program tries to access a data block that its not allowed to).
@@TheSkyGuy77 ok no obligation to indulge me, but are you up for explaining more about that? It sounds fascinating. Is it because excess sounds like access? Or what about it is a reference? Edit: please feel free to get technical, I don't mind if it goes over my head. I've written a few Android apps but I'm no pro coder. I just love the stuff.
@@ofconsciousness It's more of a PC sort of thing, but I guess there are ways it could happen on phones. Excess sounds like access and vacation could be misheard as violation. An access violation can happen when any program tries to use more memory than it was allocated. To protect the overall OS from breaking, it halts that program in its tracks. (Kinda like how Spamton got forbidden knowledge he's not supposed to have) And Burgerpants only says that he "can't go to hell; I'm all out of vacation days" on the No Mercy route.
This is very well organized! I'm still on team Kris Knight, but Alvin Knight is a very strong second place contender for me. I'm fully ready for Kris Knight to be either confirmed or deconfirmed really early on in Chapter 3, and if it does turn out to be wrong Alvin is my go to option. I will say that I do believe that, regardless of who the Knight is, the Chapter 2 fountain was made before Berdly and Noelle arrived and the Knight wasn't ever hiding in the closet. A lot of the computer lab seems to be set up before the fountain was open to influence the dark world itself. The spam emails that represent Spamton have been printed out, it's stated that someone has left the laptop that represents queen on, you could even interpret the library storage closet being open as the Knight going through the closet to grab the items needed to become Darkners(and maybe steal a couple for themselves like you suggested). I'd also like to point out that I think the Knight created the Library fountain in the middle of the room, directly in front of the open laptop that represents queen. Queen has a video of the Knight creating the fountain. And while that could have been done with various magical bullshit, I think it would be interesting if she had that since the laptop that represents her literally had its Webcam facing the Knight as they made the fountain. Also, and I couldn't fit this in anywhere else in this comment, but I am hesitant to believe that the Knight has entered any of the Dark Worlds they have created. Both Ralsei and Lancer say that the only way for the Lightners to leave is to seal the fountain, and the only contradiction to that is our ability to leave Castle Town in Chapter 2. It's hard to say if Ralsei didn't offer us that option originally due to him withholding information or if he only gained that ability when he leveled up after Kris sealed the fountain. Both are likely, and it is still unclear if this is an ability unique to him/his dark world. It could easily be explained that the Knight has some other way of leaving Dark Worlds, but until we get that I'm hesitant. To explain how the Knight helped put the Spade king in charge without entering the fountain we could look back on how the Knight prepped the Cyber World before creating it. The knight could've simply removed all the king cards from the deck besides the Spade King, and then placed the other three kings in a box of animal crackers. It isn't far fetched to say that the unused classroom had been prepped for the Card Kingdom like how the Cyber World was. All the toys are strewn out even though this place has been abandoned since presumably Gerson died. Wouldn't someone have cleaned it at least once? Why the Knight is prepping the fountains in such a specific way is up in the air right now. With Alvin Knight this could be part of the process of bringing Gerson back, or Gaster is guiding Alvin on what to do to fulfill his own goals. But with Kris Knight this becomes a lot more interesting. I think that Kris has some level of knowledge of what is going to happen in the future. They plug in the television in preparation for Susie coming over and making their dark world, the narration says it isn't time to wash your hands at the beginning of chapter 2/trying to use the kitchen sink prompts you to use the bathroom one instead, Kris seems very particular about setting up the area around where they make a fountain, and even them eating the pie gave them an opportunity to slip away and slash Toriel's tires(if the pie had still been there Susie and Toriel wouldn't have started baking). There are a couple ideas you could explore to explain how Kris knows this. The simplest is that Gaster is directing Kris on what to do. Kris already has a lot in common with Spamton, why not have them also get instructions from Gaster? It's simple, but it's not my favorite explanation. There is also timeloop theory! The idea that everything has already happened and only Kris and maybe Gaster know about it. I do like timeloop theory, it's fun and it would be really cool, but I am hesitant to believe that Kris remembers any time shenanigans. Kris currently shows no signs of remembering things we did i previous timelines. If you save before killing Berdly and then kill Berdly before loading the save to do it again Kris shows no changes in behavior. Even Frisk showed changes in how they acted when reloading fights/entire sections of the game, and Kris is far more capable of expressing their thoughts than Frisk ever was. You could make the argument that the actual timeloop is different from saving and loading and that's why they can remember, and while that could be true it doesn't sit right with me. My go to explanation for Kris' knowledge is Test Run Theory. That theory posits that there was an original run-through of the events of Deltarune, but in that run, the player was not involved. Due to our absence, shit went wrong and Gaster reset things back to the beginning and introduced us into the situation to try and create a more favorable outcome. He originally wanted to give us a unique vessel, but somehow we got stuck with Kris instead. Since we are connected to Kris that gave them the extra power to remember the original timeline and make plans accordingly. With that theory, I think it means that the Shadow Crystals when used in the light world allow you to see what happened in that original timeline: Susie never softened up and Kris possibly died(unclear since they are shown to be transparent). Kris' goal with this knowledge is the prevent things for going wrong this time around, and they do that by becoming the Knight and filling the role of antagonist. The prophecy says that a great calamity Will occur regardless of what the heroes do, so it is that the Angel's Heaven is a cataclysm that is destined to happen regardless of what the Knight does. I think Kris is opening these fountains and filling the role of the Knight in order to make their friends stronger. But necessarily Snowgrave levels of stronger, but still strong enough to stop whatever the Angel's Heaven is. Whenever a fountain is sealed, the gang levels up and gets stronger. The adventures they go through also make them stronger as a group. Susie forms a close bond with Kris and starts to get closer to Noelle, Noelle learns to stand up to people, Berdly becomes slightly less of a jackass, and I'm sure that pattern will continue with each chapter. All of these things wouldn't have happened without the Dark Fountains, and if the heroes haven't had the right character development they might not have a chance at stopping the Angel's Heaven. The Snowgrave route could be an overtuned version of this idea. Forgoing the relationships of the group for harnessing raw power. Noelle and Susie's relationship, the Darkners in the Cyber World, Noelle's confidence, Berdly's life, you don't need any of that if Noelle is strong enough to compensate. Honestly, the Test Run theory could be applied to any Knight candidate as a way of explaining what they are doing. It easily explains why the Knight isn't actively working to cause the Roaring as they are just trying to prepare the Fun Gang for the apocalypse on the horizon.
This is the most convincing essay on Kris-Knight I've seen yet! I'm not exactly a firm believer of Kris-Knight, but I am fairly sure that Kris planned the living room fountain since at least end of chapter 1. I'm also willing to believe they made the library fountain. But I don't think they're responsible for the unused classroom. Your argument that the Knight simply manipulated the objects in the light world to put the Spade King in power sounds like a plausible explanation, as in if they said that in-game I would buy it. But for now it feels a little weird, because the darkners, and especially Seam, talk like the Knight is a person (an unusually powerful person, but still). I mean, if the Knight influenced things from a higher layer of reality, then it's basically like the hand of God creating miracles, right? But calling God "a strange knight" sounds a little odd, doesn't it? And if you want to excuse this by claiming the darkners can somehow see the people in the light world while their fountain is closed, enough to describe them like any other person, wouldn't that mean they should recognize Kris? Why is Seam giving exposition on the Knight to the Knight? Why is Spade King attacking the Knight that he practically worships? Are all the darkners who ever mention it conspiring together to make sure to mislead us? Because I feel that would be a stretch. And while we're at the topic of noone acting like Kris is the Knight, I gotta bring up how Spamton, while he's explicitly alone with Kris, says "Did you know that the Knight--?" before he gets cut off. And while this is Spamton, so I can't _really_ outrule he wanted to say "Did you know the Knight is you?", it still doesn't sound like the most normal thing to say. If Kris is the Knight and Spamton knows or at least suspects it, why phrase it this way? And if it's a secret plan to pretend like he doesn't know, why is he bringing it up at all? Anyway, that's just my guess. I'm not ruling out Kris-Knight completely just yet. We should see soon, chapters 3 & 4 should either confirm or debunk it
@@nataliaborys1554 that's definitely fair, and I can definitely see it being confirmed later that the Knight is just special and can leave Dark Worlds without issue. But until then the idea that they helped overthrow the kings by manipulating the room makes the most sense. Plus we can be pretty sure that the Knight never entered the Cyber World, but Queen still sees them as a regular person and also somehow knew they were called the Roaring Knight(a name she couldn't have come up with on her own since she had no clue what the Roaring was), so it seems like there is something weird going on between Darkners and the person who makes their fountain. Maybe the thoughts and intentions of the one creating the fountain influence how the Darkners act and what they believe? In Undertale there was a lot of emphasis placed on intentions shaping how humans interacted with monsters. In Deltarune that dichotomy between humans and monsters seems to be gone and instead is focusing on how Lightners interact with Darkners so I wouldn't be surprised if they have their own version of a similar idea.
Ok, so I only read half of it, but I really like your thoughts. I just stopped to talk about Gaster since I think there is no way for him to be on the same side with The Knight. Gaster already cooperates with "The Player", encouraging them to keep moving on, so that the world won't get covered in darkness, and The Player doesn't really seem to be on good terms with Kris. But, Kris and Gaster are definitely aware of each other, you can't really argue with a giant sealed bunker in the middle of the forest making Gaster noises. The question is just what are they going to do about each other (there's also Gaster possibly being the man behind the tree, who appears to Kris in Ch2 after you find him, but given that we are in control at that moment, he could also be contacting The Player, so idk)
The only issue with the fountain being there before noelle and berdly got there, is that if they entered the dark world instead of having it be made while they were there, they wouldnt have been able to be convinced it was a dream.
As a Kris Knight truther I still think Alvin Knight is the second most compelling answer just because of how well it'd hit if Toby played his cards right People saying it'd be to obvious and that it's clearly a red herring ignore the fact that you can know the twist of something, yet still want to see it happen just because of the consequences Literally everyone and their mother knew that Dabi was related to Todoroki (both had fire quirks, similar motifs, alot of sus panels involving the two, "Ohhh jeez remember that missing sibling ohhh it's so sad what happened to him") If you had a brain, you saw it coming That didn't make it any less impactful. There is a reason why Dabi's Dance was LITERALLY TRENDING HIGHER THAN THE US ELECTION It's never about the surprise factor it's about the aftermath of the twist that matters
I would love a Knight Mayor video! I think her, Noelle, and Alvin have a lot of knight potential, esecially as they're new characters. As for existing characters, I think Asgore and Papyrus have a shot (Kris is an ok candidate, just not one that I really want to see being the knight)
I've always liked Alvin Knight theory but, you know...so often in knight theories (either to help prove or disprove) people zero in on "there MUST be an explanation on how they can wandera round the school/library" but I just keep thinking...IS there, though? The school has 2 teachers and the front door is unlocked. During the entire school day you can reasonably just go in wherever; after school's out you can just go in as you please after they've left. There's plenty of time for anyone to just head in at minimal risk of being "spotted" The library is just a public space. Literally anyone could go in there and it seems like it's not a very heavily trafficked place, so there's plenty of time to just pop in at your leisure when you think you're in the clear. Which Chapter 2 offered considering no one else was in the library (& if anyone came in suddenly hey there's a closet to hide in) I think this would be a bigger question to have to resolve if it was somewhere less "public" like Asgore's store (where he lives and presumably would hear someone either coming in or breaking in) or if someone ELSE had made the Dreemur Residence fountain or the Hospital (which is a public space but is much more populated). As it is, it feels like something that could be removed from every knight theory (for or against) and lose nothing to its foundation.
I get ya, but there's a little more to it. It's isn't just the people in the locations, it's everyone else in town. Like, even if the Knight was able to easily waltz into the school unnoticed by the attendants, the school is the only building on that side of the town. Is it really so weird to think that no-one would see someone leaving that area that shouldn't be there and talking about it to Kris later? Like, 80% of Hometown seem to be gossips lol. We get stories told to us about Onion-san hearing a weird noise and Pizzapants's coworkers. I just think if anyone saw someone unexpected going towards or inside the school they'd ask Kris, "Yo, what was up with that guy, did you see that?" The Librarby is a similar case during Chapter 2 only because of the traffic jam. If the Knight isn't Noelle or Berdley then presumably they'd have to enter and escape the Librarby during the jam, which means once again the people who can do so are narrowed down significantly. Obviously if the truth ends up being that the Knight just broke into both these places at nighttime and made the fountains then all of this doesn't matter, but I think for now it's still worth considering.
@@guiltyflygon I guess, really thinking more about it, what my thing really is... The idea of opportunity mattering has yet to come up either way in the narrative. No one has been gossiping about it and heck no one's even wondering when the Knight's had these opportunities. The closest we've come is that Rudy & Noelle have specifically mentioned that Kris does not usually come to the Hospital, but that's a different thing. No one really gossips about Alphys and she literally hangs out in an Alleyway frequently, you know? No one really talks about Sans or his brother either; I don't think Papyrus has been mentioned by anyone other than Sans at all. Basically it doesn't seem something worth thinking about until the idea of it needs to matter, & at that point we'll likely start getting dialog (either from active investigation or coincidental-gossip) to let us figure it out. And at that point likely every suspect would get mentioned and be earmarked as potentially suspicious behavior regardless of how much sense it would be. And also...I guess just about every major suspect (that doesnt have weird Meta Shenanigans) the community has their eyes on already has built in excuses. Kris & Noelle have free run of the library/school, Alphys knight theory isn't super well run but she also obviously does both, Alvin is a respected member of the community and probably cares about The Youth even without his connection to Gerson, Mayor is overly controlling, etc. There's definitely people around town who would have harder times doing this but those people are also never in serious conversation. Any time I see the theories people bring them up and then immediately answer them because all of them just have that innately. Papyrus is the only one where it MIGHT matter, but we haven't even seen him and no one but Sans has mentioned him so we have nothing to go on so anything could be going on there. Some people think he's a child now but for all we know the joke will be he's a respected adult member of the community and no one's thought to talk about him until he was relevant like wow Kris how could you not know about Papyrus he goes to the school and library all the time lol you gotta get out of your room more. It's what I mean when it could be removed from the conversation and lose nothing on the "it's them/it's not them" foundation until we start getting fountains that are less public spaces or suspects that have less wiggle room or the idea of an alibi starts to matter. Everyone pretty much has opportunity for the School & Library, but if the next one was like the town hall or diner -especially if these happened during the day rather than overnight- then it's time to start asking questions you know? Actually maybe that'd be a fun part of theory crafting, "how could this suspect make fountains at these locations going forward"
I will say the answer being obvious does not make the mystery bad, in fact the opposite is true: if you approach a mystery via "what would be the most shocking reveal" you create a shitty mystery because rather than set up clues beforehand you just go "this is the answer" at random, meaning the viewer can't solve it for themselves and the answer wouldn't be satisfactory, especially if it doesn't make sense and/or contradicts things we have been shown already. so someone being 'too obvious' to be the knight is a shitty way to toss away a possibility, because that means you care more about the surprise of the mystery rather than how it affects the story and characters.
It could be that Alvin is trying to bring his father back as a darkner and so he used the classroom with the picture Alvin drew of Gerson, then the library to use one of Gersons books but had to change plans because Berdly and Noelle surprised him. That would also make chapter three a skip in Alvin's rhythm because he had nothing to do with this fountain. I'm thinking chapter four or five will have a fountain in the church with Alvin using an object his father's ashes were placed on, maybe that object is even the hammer and Gerson isn't forming in the dark worlds because Alvin's holding onto him. So the only way to see his father is to figuratively and literally let go of him.
50:10 thing is, Alvin living in the church or connected to it isn't actually particularly unrealistic!! many christian churches irl have connected/neighboring parsonages, which are basically buildings/houses owned by the church for clergy to live in perhaps if the deltarune church has a parsonage, that could be included in a dark world made there, which could tell us more abt alvin oh also!!!! in the feudal system of medieval Europe, knights were often the sons of nobility, like lords and in undertale, gerson is the lord of the hammer :] gerson could also likely be considered a merchant due to his smithing and writing (to a degree) and could therefore also be considered upper class enough to have a knight son :]
Regarding Gerson being an anagram, isn't Gerson's name a reference to a Super Smash Bros. player? if that's the case then said person has a lot of explaining to do!
I think it may be because they're both kind of unhinged shopkeepers, but we know from Undertale that shopkeeps have a sort of special relationship with the game world where they can't be attacked, so there's definitely something to chew on there if you wanted to. Also, thanks for the dono! 🫡
I really like this theory!!! Never thought about who closed the door in ch1. Additionally, we do end up seeing black pawns in ch1! In one of the scarlet forest rooms I believe they’re the ones who swing around those diamonds like where you have to dodge em.
@@guiltyflygon @kewlkid4364 As for the who closed the door in chapter 1 thing, I've always assumed (and I've heard it in a theory video, I forgot who's it was), that it was Sans who closed it as he's the janitor (or at least says something about being the janitor). How Sans got there go quickly idk, but given that he can teleport in ut, maybe he can do it in dr?
A video about the Noelle knight theory could be very interesting! It's one of those theories that I usually see thrown around as kind of a meme, so I'd curious to see actual arguments in it's favour!
I'm seeing a lot of Kris Knight chatter and I'm a little confused why this hasn't already been debunked. Kris couldn't have created the fountain in the computer lab because both Berdly and Noelle (especially Noelle) are confused how they ended up in the Dark World and both assume they were sleeping, accepting it as a dream afterwards. We know they are both very smart (Berdly may be reliant on Noelle's help but it's not like he's a complete moron on his own) so the idea that they opened the computer lab doors and walked into the Dark World without noticing it is absurd. Kris and Susie both visibly react both times a door to a Dark World is opened, even before they know what's going on at the school closet. The only option that makes sense in my mind for when the library fountain was created is after Noelle and Berdly were both in the computer lab. Kris was still at school then and has a rock-solid alibi. Also notice that Noelle and Berdly are sitting at a desk when the fountain is closed, while Kris and Susie are standing just inside the door. This seems straightforward to me, am I missing something?
There's actually definitive evidence against that version of events within the game. The traffic jam next to the library was created by the annoying dog, who we know is also in the dark world in chapter 2. Not only that but it's much further into the dark world than Berdly or Noelle are. That means that the dark world had to be created before Noelle and Berdly entered the computer lab, since if it was made while they were in the computer lab, at best them and the annoying dog would have entered the dark world at the same time if it came in right when the fountain was being made, so it would make no sense that the annoying dog was much deeper into the dark world than Noelle or Berdly are. With how large the traffic jam is it's also safe to say that it was quite a while ago that the annoying dog created it, although there's no way to know for sure. Also if you walked up to a computer lab and it was dark inside, you'd most likely walk into it to get to its light switch and turn the lights on, it's completely reasonable for Noelle and Berdly to have thought that the computer lab's lights just weren't on, instead of assuming something magical was at play. It's also important to note that Berdly and Noelle didn't have Ralsei to explain what was happening when they first entered the dark world like Kris and Susie did. Most people in their situation would assume they were dreaming, even if they couldn't recall falling asleep or even sitting down since your memories are if not completely inaccessible during a dream very fuzzy. For your other point, remember that Susie and Kris left chapter 1's dark world and entered the light world in different places than they had entered the dark world in. This makes sense, since the dark world are abstracted representations of the spaces they're made in, so leaving the dark world in a different place than you entered would logically put you in a different spot in the light world. Keeping that in mind remember how at the end of chapter 2 Kris and Susie leave Noelle and Berdly to go to the dark fountain and seal it, it makes sense that Noelle and Berdly are in one spot together and Kris and Susie are in another spot together in the light world. Although that is built in more speculative evidence so it's not 100% confirmed like the previous point is.
@@ninjabunny9526 Thank you for such an in-depth response! They're not bad points, so I can't dismiss them out of hand, even if I still think Kris Knight is unlikely. The only thing I wouldn't necessarily agree with is the Annoying Dog's presence; since it represents Toby and has shown numerous times it can ignore the laws of space, I don't think its location in the Dark World can be taken as evidence one way or another. You can't even get back to the street where he runs you over once that gag plays out. But the light switch stuff is valid, and I forgot Noelle and Birdley are separated from Kris and Susie during the sealing. Guess we'll just have to see.
@@Dudeman23rd the annoying dog actually shows up twice in the chapter 2 dark world. While the first one might not even be real since you can miss it and also that area isnt accessible after dying in it once, the second one is actually mandatory and definitely real since it's the thing holding the platter that Kris Susie and Ralsei ride on while in Queen's castle. It isn't necessarily definitive proof, I suppose, since you pointed out the less than canonical powers of the annoying dog at times, but it is important to note that the annoying dog isn't just a one-off gag in chapter 2, which may give more credence to it disproving the "chapter 2 dark fountain was made while Noelle and Berdly were already in the lab" theory. Although then again the nature of theorizing about Deltarune with as little information that we are given means that really nothing can be 100% confirmed yet lul
@@ninjabunny9526 Good point. I actually remembered the part with the platters while I was writing my reply, but still discounted it since it's written in as a goofy deus ex machina (he doesn't just help you find the key, he then destroys it and explodes the door open anyway). But yeah, I'm lucid enough to not try and get too confident when we only have 2/7 of a game to work with.
In regards to the Knight, here are my two cents. I personally believe Kris opened the Computer lab fountain, and is the Knight referred to by Queen in Chapter 2. There is so much connective tissue pointing to this. Firstly, we have the ending of Chapter 1. Kris didn’t go AWOL for no reason, they had to have been scheming for a good portion of the night, because despite us heeding Toriel’s command and going to bed early, Alphys in the morning of Chapter 2 still comments on our apparent lack of sleep. So beyond eating the pie (which would not have been a time consuming task for Kris) the only peculiar changes in Hometown that we observe before and after this event is the TV being plugged in, and the computer lab fountain being created. Secondly, Queen’s illustration of the Knight is a five fingered hand, with a Knife, the _exact_ tool and mode by which Kris creates the living room fountain. She probably depicts it this way because she has the video where “The Knight Creates the Fountain by it’s own Hand”. - And she wouldn’t recognize Kris from it because according to the flavor text you are unable to tell who is creating it due to the smoke. Then there is also the fact that in the Chapter 1 ending, Kris brandishes a knife, of course, initially everyone’s mind immediately went to them being a murder child. But the story has clearly recontextualized knives from an object representing murder to an object representing impending fountain creating chicanery. With all this considered, I am almost certain that Kris created the computer lab Fountain. _But_ I do not believe they are _the_ Knight, that is referred to in Chapter 1, that is still someone different. We know the original Knight had a pretty close relationship with the Spade King in the Dark World, and he would never fraternize with Kris or any random Lightener, as you discussed. And so The Knight, in difference to the creator of the Computer Lab Fountain who left right after creating it - Actually entered The Card Kingdom and integrated themselves within the politics of the society. Overthrowing the former kings and instating Spade King and Lancer into power. This apparent difference in Modus operandi leads credence that these might be two different characters. And I must say your arguments about Alvin are really strong, it almost made me convinced it might be him. So much so that regardless if Kris or Alvin Knight is true, I’m not going to be disappointed either way. Fantastic video, I would be interested in hearing what you have to say about a potential Noelle Knight as well.
hear me out Alvin is the school janitor works nightshifts during the week, still has time for church on the weekend if we assume the supply closet would be frequently used by a janitor this makes more sense since you would expect the janitor to go in there at least once a day/night so he would have more than enough opportunity to make a fountain or two
I don't think Gaster will be the final boss only because you can miss out on finding the Shadow Crystals. It definitely seems that the crystals peel back a layer of reality, revealing the truth of that world to whoever peers through it. Thats why in the Dark Worlds they show the Light World and in the light world they show "nothingness" (or rather, the fact that they arent real) That sort of reality tampering is definitely related to Gaster so I feel like he'll be the secret final boss akin to Sans in Undertale. Or he isnt a boss or enemy at all and is more like the Genocide Demon at the very end of the Genocide Route? who knows
Yooo! i am not sure you did it because of my comment, but i am glad you did! i definitley agree with your take on it. Alvin knight to me is a "logical" theorist's candidate. I am not calling other candidates illogical or bad, but i think alvin knight doesn't rely on a level of theorizing which doesn't actually have much evidence like alvin's. Like mayor knight is mostly backed by narrative potential by the people who theorize it, while i think alvin has both that and actual tangible evidence.
I feel like chapter 3 will tell us something about who the knight is. Probably not explicitly more like in contrast to who Kris is as a person based on how the dark worlds are different (or the lack of differences proving Kris-Knight) Additionally thought the type or lack of secret boss. Secret bosses are either intentionally or unintentionally made. If there’s one chapter 3, and it fallows the theme of the others, then it tells us nothing about who the knight is, but if there isn’t one or it’s wildly different than kris isn’t the knight. I think it could be the case bc the Secret bosses so far have been pertain to Kris’s story in ways they’re uncomfortable with (as seen in the yes or No! Sene after spamton) so why would they intentionally make that again?
I watch alot of theories so if you've already done this ignore me, but have you looked into the theory that theres a bunker hidden under hometown? I personally think it makes alot of things click like the giant pillars in the closet being floorboards that broke and are suspended in dark water
All non-kris knight theories suffer the same main problem with me which is that we only have one piece of evidence for who the knight is which is more than just circumstantial, which is that Kris is the only character we've seen so far who has made a dark fountain, which is the only thing we know for certain is something that the knight does. Quite literally all we know for sure about the knight is that they have made at least two dark fountains. We don't know if they are a hero or a villain, we dont know if they want to create the roaring or not, all we can 100% say about them is that they make dark fountains. And the only character we've seen make one thus far is Kris. The fact that some other candidates wear something armor-like, or have a relation to religion or the concept of knighthood at all doesn't matter that much to me because we aren't actually sure any of those things relate to the knight at all, they're just inferences you could make.
Kris is definitely the Occam's Razor choice to be sure, but half the fun of theorizing is speculating what twists and connections we might not see coming.That said, I do think some circumstantial evidence is worthwhile seems how this is a story and not reality, so ideally some themes would come together for the candidate. The good news about Kris Knight in comparison to any other candidate is that we'll probably know if it's true as soon as we play chapter 3 lol 😆
One thing i havent seen brought up is how the fountain levels th player, and if the knight knows this. If the knight is kris and knows of the foundation and how it makes them stronger;- then we have a good reason for kris opening foundations even after snow grave And if the knight isnt kris, then could they possibly trying to make kris stronger? As seen in chapter one, the doors to the storage lab shut on kris and Susie, if the knight shut the door, then they specify wanted kris or Susie to go into the dark world. Its alot of small details in game a feel alot of people look over
I don't believe that Kris is the Knight because the identity of the main antagonist being revealed at the end of Chapter Two of Seven feels wrong to me, narrative-wise.
yeah people basing their theories on literal interpretations of a knigth forget that The Knight is only something the Darkners call them. We don't know WHY they call them the Knight beyond potentially having some sort of bladed weapon. People also likely latch onto the literal definitions due to the Knight being introduced in the vaguely medieval themedish first dark world. it being kris is just a much stronger and more interesting possibility, due to Kris being a seperate persona from the player controlling kris and kris being pretty mysterous in terms of why and how they can rip the player out of their chest and what they go off to do when they take away your control over them. As well as how they know to make a dark fountain in the first place.
@@sarafontanini7051 its important to remember though that the Knight's title is "the Roaring Knight" which suggests this is the title the Knight gave themselves rather than something made up by Darkners. because if it was Darkners' thing, that suggests that they know at least about the existence of the Roaring or have other reason to call them this without the Knight telling them thats their title. but Queen doesnt, even though shes the one to drop the title.
If Gerson is a boss monster then Alvin would also be one. And it’s worth pointing out that he’s old. And as far as I know does not have a kid. Which means one of 3 things, he’s not a boss monster, he does have a living kid, or his kid died when he was an adult and Alvin kept living. At least I think Alvin is old enough that that’s all that would make sense. Guess I don’t know much about turtle monster biology though
I'm only like 10 minutes into the video but the discussion of when the fountains could have been created reminds me of something completely unrelated to Alvin: doesn't Queen say that "Today, It (The Knight) deigned to create this world"? But also, other characters like the Sweet Cap'n Cakes, Swatch and Spamton either say things or indicate that the Dark World has some sort of history before the fountain. The same goes for King and the Dark World in the empty classroom. There's a whole backstory about four kings being overthrown as a RESULT of The Knight appearing. It's just interesting to me because it sounds as if there was some level of existence for these characters before the fountains appeared. The fountains empower them, but it also destroys their world once it's sealed. It's just a bit odd to me
Sorry for ranting in your replies but my current interpretation is there's spacetime shenanigans going on. Like, on one hand it's clear the fountains create the Dark Worlds based on the current day's setting/Lightners present---Queen says "today [the knight] deigned to create this world," Noelle's memories/personality affect the Cyber World (Spamton's shop feeling "familiar", the DECEMBER mansion security, the baseball moon etc), the current state of the lab affect Darkner circumstance (Spamton/spam ads being in the trash). On the other hand, the Darkners' history makes them more compelling characters, and they have knowledge of later Darkners which shouldn't be possible if they didn't already exist. Plus the secret bosses' interactions with Gaster feel like they were probably more than just Gaster whispering horrible truths to a literal joker card lol. I reckon it's a variant on Last Thursdayism (the mock idea that the world was Created Last Thursday, and all memories/history retconned into existence). But I like the version where the creation of a fountain _literally_ creates that history. Like, the fountain was created in the lab, and thereafter the Cyber World had Always Been There, to the point that if you traveled back in time it would still be an earlier version of the Cyber World, until the fountain is sealed. Then Gaster, being weird spacetime meta guy, is able to interact with both realities whenever. (IDK why Queen is so chill about their reality being kinda fake. Maybe only loser manlets are prone to madness.) IMO it would tie in nicely with the themes of determinism/choice bubbling under the surface here, too. Convoluted, sure, but I hear it's pretty Homestuck so I doubt Toby's above it lol.
@@kitschkyyt No worried about the ramblings :p I think the idea that the dark worlds are created with fully fledged backstories feeds into the idea that some people had when it was JUST chapter 1, that it was sort of like a game of D&D using the items in the classroom. I feel like people stopped talking about tha when chapter 2 made it more complicated than that, but it could still be true. I think it'd make a lot of sense if the characters in the dark world just kinda came pre-built with their own histories and personalities. Like 'creating' the Dark World only gave them form, whereas before they still existed, just in a perpetual stasis waiting for the lightners to create a fountain for their world to start functioning.
@@emmiccino528 yea i definitely wouldn't say it's _just_ the D&D character backstory thing, just that any theory has to account for both the influence the Lightners/specific setting canonically has on the Dark Worlds _as well as_ the Darkners already existing/having history in some capacity. i reckon there has to be some middleground there bc like yea it is more complex now!! the simple Darkners-as-D&D-characters is less compelling anyway. it's why i always end up back at there must be worlds-within-worlds spacetime reality bending shit going on lol. i am a fan of the perpetual stasis idea though, maybe i'll incorporate that into my belief system. (thanks for the chat
I kind of assumed what he was doing with the hammer was trying to spread Gerson's dust on it. It really depends on if the Knight serves the Angel in any way, which we honestly don't know for certain, we just kind of assumed. If the Knight serves the Angel, it's probably Alvin. If the Knight is its own player in the story, it's probably Kris. If Alvin Knight is true, I would assume Alvin's role is not to cause the apocolypse, but merely get his father back. Maybe bring him back to life in the form of a darkner, not sure. I tend to think the Knight is his own character, because Jevil refers to "Hell's Roar" which sounds like a direct reference to the roaring, and Spamton's reference to communion could easily be just that the Knight is trying to take the place of the Angel rather than serve them. It sounds like it could just as easily be an inversion of the Angel, not service.
PLEASE!!! Please do a video on Noelle Knight! I've heard it suggested a couple times and I don't expect it will ever happen, but I would be really interested in a longer video breaking it down because it IS an interesting concept!
Here's why I think Kris Knight is false. The fans at the end of the Chapter 1 cliffhanger : Oh no Kris is gonna go on a genocide rampage ! Toby Fox : Lol no Kris eats the pie. The fans at the end of the Chapter 2 cliffhanger : Oh no Kris is the Knight ! Toby Fox : Basically what I'm saying is that Toby Fox knows what he's doing. He knows what he's implying with these cliffhangers. He makes us believe what he wants us to believe. He makes these cliffhangers imply something obvious in order to trick us into believing that this is where the story is going, only to turn things around and surprise us. It was okay to fall for it at the end of Chapter 1, it was the first time it happened. But now Toby is tricking you basically in the exact same way he did at the end of Chapter 1 and y'all are still falling for it.
i'm not a believer in Kris Knight but I wouldn't put it past Toby Fox to do a double fake-out. make us assume "chapter is ending, kris looks evil again, haha i wonder what the wacky misunderstanding will be this time" and then playing it straight only when no one expects it
@@Baconomics1 Probably, but I don't know if he would do it now. You know the saying "Once is chance, twice is a coincidence, third time's a pattern" ? I feel like Toby would make it a pattern before turning it on its head.
Random gobeldigoosh I’m about to spout, what if each of the deltarune endings is going to lead from a deltarune mystery, like what if at the end of the game the roaring happens and after you beat the titans the world ends or something, but say if you got all the eggs you fight the vessel, or if you have all the secret boss items you get to fight Gaster, or if you got stronger you have to fight Dess. Just a random thought
Adding on to what you’ve said about this, but I think if the knight *really* wanted the roaring to happen, you’d think it would just make a fountain, keep the heroes busy by having them go close it (like moths to a flame), and just… go make another one somewhere else in the light world while they’re distracted? To me that’s sounds like one of the *easiest* ways to start the roaring if they were *really* serious about it. Like, when Kris made their dark fountain, they had plenty of time to leave the house before they were consumed by it, so i think that would be still possible to do.
Yesss…I love Alvin so much he’s so cool I give him a little kiss. I hope he has significance. He’s so silly and even if he is not the knight he deserves more screentime I think.
i would love to see a noelle vid like this. i really enjoy longer, slower analysis and theory videos like this, this one was great i havent seen anyone really talk about noelle knight, im very intrigued as to what you would have to say about it
The Knight doesn't need to hide in the closet in the computer lab. As we saw with Kris, there is enough time to leave the room before the Dark Fountain finishes being created. Thats just a tiny detail btw but great video
Yeah, my arguement to everyone who said "he's too obvious" was also "The game's been out for 6 years of course it's obvious when we have had 6 fucking years how many people would have picked it up if it was just a full finished start to end game."
I suppose given that Gerson was a teacher, he might have had keys to rooms in the school. If the unused classroom was locked, Alvin would be able to get in if he had Gerson's keys. That and Ms. Boom may be a teacher at the school, who ig is his mother, and would have keys as well which he might have access to.
I think it's confirmed that Toriel and Alphys are the only teacher at the school, even if not the classroom with the fountain is called the "unused classroom" so I don't think anyone is still teaching in it. Alvin being able to access Gerson's old keys, and therefore not needing to break into the school even if he made the fountain at night, is a good point though!
Tolkien wrote about this idea of sub creation where created beings (humans) mirror God when we create stories or ‘secondary worlds’ Also he left what was left of his writings to his son that’s why some of his works were published posthumously Interesting parallels at the least to Gerson and the night
Time to leak private information about Toby Fox, so professional therapists could find out what he was dreaming about the night he had the dream that inspired Deltarune.
Wait, what if it actually is Rudy and hes trying to "get the families back together" so to speak. We would have to solve for him being in the hospital heh
Those can still come later when the twist is revealed. I kind of like the idea that only the Knight will have them and not Alvin himself, sort of to signify that the Knight is his true persona while "Alvin the kindly pastor" is just a mask he wears.
for the record, I am a Kris Knight truther. I feel we have some decent evidence and possible circumstantial evidence for it even ASIDE from the big chapter 2 cliffhanger.
For Kris Knight theory, we don't know if King even met the Knight. Queen just guesses based on the Knight's actions, so what's to say that King didn't do the same thing? Also, we don't know if Kris looks different with and without the soul.
also i wanna say,, i actually really enjoy your approach to theory video making, the format of a powerpoint and just talking is less overwhelming and more laid back,,, not to say other formats are bad i enjoy watching em alot but thos this format is relaxing to watch lol
The mention of Chapter 1 only having white chess pieces gave me an idea. White moves first in Chess, right? There are white chess pieces attacking us because the Knight took the first turn. We, going after the Knight, are the black pieces who move in response to the actions of the white piecea.
Hey! So here is another thing that came to mind when you said that Gerson, and by extension Alvin and Ms. Boom if she's Alvin's sister, is that they wouldnt age at all after their father's death. Ms. Boom could age if she got married and had children, but Alvin? Priest in Christianity, with I'm guessing the religion is based on in Deltarune, doesn't allow priests to get married or have children. Now, keep in mind that if Gerson was a boss monster and the fact that Alvin's existence is what caused his father to die and the fact that he would have to live with that because he can't have children, wouldn't that take a toll in you? So now let's say Ms. Boom is Alvin's mom. Now I'm getting this from UTY, but what if Ms. Boom isnt a boss monster, but a regular one, and sinces boss monster souls are like the dominant gene, he would be a boss monster. She could die out at any moment, leaving Alvin alonewith no one to talk to about this. Giving him more sadness and a push to open more Dark Foundations. If we get a chapter in with Ms. Boom dies, that could be his breaking point, if she's his mother, if sister she wouldn't die. Okay, now let's say Ms. Boom is his mom and a boss monster. We would have the same idea as his mom not being a boss monster with her dying and the same idea as him not aging, but he would have to deal with the fact that his existence is the reason why both his parents is dead. That would take a toll on someone more so than just his dad dying and/or his mother dying because she isn't immortal or still having a living sister to talk too about this. Being the reason that both your parents are dead amd that fact you have to live for all eternity because your a priest would make you want to do some stuff that you probably shouldn't. Even if your other parent is alive, you would still want to prepare for when she dies. And, once again if she dies in a new chapter, that would take him too his breaking poin most likely. All in all, if Gerson was a boss monster and if Alvin was the knight and doing this for/to get his father back, it would just be sad. But that's just a theory! One I came up with.
32:49 hold on bishops and knights share a value Alvin is a bishop and on thing that could give two characters the same value is being the same character
Alphys mentions that there's almost no crime in town and I doubt the school door closes at night, because even when everyone has already left and it's completely empty, we can enter whenever we want at the end of every chapter. We don't actually know if the King and Queen talked to the Knight, seems like they just assumed what the Knight wants. Also, if you watch the Undertale anniversary stream where they play Deltarune chapter 1, in the fight against the King Toby mentions that he "believes" (he's literally the creator lol) that the King was not like that before and the fountain changed him, rather than having received orders from someone in particular, he makes it sound like the fountain turned him this way. The King thinks he's serving the wishes of the one who opened the fountain because that is what the fountain makes him feel. None of these arguments overwhelmingly afirm that Kris is the Knight tho, just that anyone could have done it, including Alvin.
I can buy that the town has very lax security I suppose. At least for now... I wonder if Kris's actions at the end of chapter 2 might come back to bite them if buildings start being locked due to rumors of a mysterious prowler? I do remember that comment by Toby now that you mention it. It's a bit odd of an idea at first, but it does make some solid sense. After all, it does seem that the contents of a dark world reflect the will/determination of the Lightners inside, the Cyber World is an excellent example. That place was swarming to references to Noelle's history. It's actually some solid evidence for a possible Multiple Knights Theory haha.
7:00 well the first fountain doesn't have to be created on the day Kris and Susie descover it, if I'm right chapter 1 happens on a monday so the knight could have snuck in during the weekend to create the fountain.
I think it's more likely that Chapter 1 takes place on a Thursday, which explains why Kris and Susie were planning to stay up all night watching movies without having to go to School the next day in Chapter 2, since it's beginning of the weekend then.
Super fun content :) Your content reminds me of jaru, just less insane and more coherent. You sound the part too. Most deltarune theorists I watch have slowly gone into psychosis so it's nice to find someone normal here and there
Something to add to 36:45 about the direction/intention of making the game for the average player: The ending to a game came to Toby in a dream, he wanted to make it into a game and started making stuff for that ending, then started on Undertale as a "tech demo"/a project to start with. Citing from Wikipedia: "The idea for Deltarune came to Toby Fox in a dream he had in 2011 while he was in college. In the dream, he saw the ending to a video game and was determined to create it." Whatever game he is making, so far as the ending and the general story is concerned, is not for the fans or still in works. That was set in stone around two decades before the game will probably be finished, meaning that whatever mystery regarding the knight or the ending there is, could still be outside of the game's current assets/code. We aren't even 100% sure if the game only has 7 chapters. A side tangent: this is why I believe that plausibility is only in theory variations that utilize multiple save files for a final conclusion or where your actions affect the world, which effects are only amplified by the ending, but the ending does not depend on them, for example: "At the end of the game, the player has to be severed from the world, effectively taking away player agency over the world and bringing about a big change, while everybody that was saved or killed by the player remains in the state that they were in. Only a couple of details and characters have to be set in stone for the ending to occur, and the game doesn't allow for tampering with it, but weird route or pacifist can railroad or derail whatever story there is between the start and the end. Your actions have consequences, and your choices matter, but not to you or your ultimate fate." Whatever the ending is, I am 99% sure it is AN ending.
This is personally why I believe the Knight isn't the final boss, as they are more intrinsically tied to the world of Deltarune than the crazy Gaster overarching plot would need them to be. To invoke chess theory for a sec, the Knight is still a piece on the chessboard, while Gaster (or whoever will man the more existential conflict at the end of the game) is the player.
Wouldn’t the fact that Alvin used to study in the abandoned classroom mean that King would hate him more? Since he’d be one of the Lighters that “abandoned” the darkners.
You could definitely read it that way. I just think that if Alvin positioned it as him being a kid at the time and now he's returned to fix the mistakes of his father King might more readily get on board then say, a total stranger.
Also I feel like later in the game it would make more sense for the knight to be a group or two people rather than one the way the knight is acting so far
25:03 yeah it really makes me wonder what sans and papyrus' role even is in deltarune. if they are say actually corelated with gaster and they also "randomly appeared one day" or are "new to town" than that would indicate... some kind of purpose? but as of yet they havent had any purpose... tehy could be just deligated to reference characters for all we know 9but knowing Toby Fox, thatd be way too boring)
I disagree with the idea that Toby isn’t making this for us insane theorists. Everything about the secret bosses, Gaster, and the purposeful secrets in the files shows that he really does intend for us to dig our teeth into this like a hyena
Okay, maybe a better way to phrase it is: "Toby isn't making the game exclusively for us insane theorists." Like, he's clearly giving us something to chew on, but the main story so far has been pretty easy to follow.
The knight didn't put the king in power what was said is "strange knight appeared and three king were locked away and the king remaining put him and his strange son into power" It's never said it was the knight who did this
yea, the darkners are all just objects, and the kings specifically are literally just playing cards, so it's possible that the knight just accidentally dropped the cards somewhere and the spade king was left behind
@@Tulip_bipI doubt that because it was never told to us but even if it was an accident we can't derive the knight's intentions if so if i accidently drop an egg i didn't i want to drop an egg
23:49 Deltarune is a sequel to Undertale, he only doesn't call it a sequel because it's a different world but for all intents and purposes it's a sequel.
Semantically maybe, but... If the plots were going to be continuous why not just call the game Undertale 2? The name recognition would be way worth it. Why even go through the hassle to make the game an alternate universe if the characters we're already familiar with are going to be the ones that drive the plot? I'm not saying it's impossible for an Undertale character to be the Knight, it's just far more likely it's a new character who is more grounded in the Deltarune universe.
You'll have to remind me what I said in the video since it's been a while lol. I know my answer today, but it might contradict what I said back then haha.
I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that Alphys is the high school level teacher in town, but that might just be me assuming. Even so, we know Pizzapants was in the same class as Asriel, and he's attending college, so unless Pizzapants got held back he should be graduated at the moment.
I’m seeing mostly Kris Knight, Alvin Knight, but where is Papyrus? Imo it would be funny if he was, and it could work story wise. We haven’t seen him, maybe this is why.
I wouldn't like Alvin as the Knight, nor do I think he will be, but anyone who uses the "he doesn't have a portrait sprite" argument, like... have you not MET the secret bosses, whom are arguably some of the most interesting parts of Deltarune?... It does worry me though, how at the end of both chapters, we've had a reference or nod to the Boom family. I'm more of a fan of "Gerson's hammer was brought to life with his dust on it" than Alvin being the Knight. I am tired of the "religious man is actually le evil" trope. I think it's entirely possible that the Knight is a Darkner who is capable of leaving Dark Worlds entirely. The Knight is another "Dark World boss" like King and Queen, but unlike them, they directly serve Gaster. I keep thinking about what Susie says at the end of Chapter 2 with wanting to bring Lancer and Ralsei to the Light World, and that's a very interesting desire to me. We see that Darkners are capable of reparing warp doors in Chapter 1, Sans has his own warp door somehow, and Sans also has a broken machine (that neither he nor Alphys can fix, according to Toby (implying Gaster invented it, as "his brilliance could not be replaced")) in his workshop that looks oddly door-shaped... and we know that the Knight has some sort of door as well, given Toby's comment during the Chapter 1 livestream. What if Gaster invented a transdimensional warp door that allows the Knight to pop in anywhere, create a fountain, and then leave?... And this Knight is from some other Dark World that's currently active, just like Castle Town?...
To be fair the evil God/religion is an RPG trope, and Undertale/Deltarune basically always subvert RPG tropes, which is why I think Alvin Knight would be focused moreso on the loss of his father than like, religious extremism. A Darker Knight would be interesting, though of course you then have to solve for how they can wield Determination to make the fountains.
i don't think the chess theory is true, mostly because the chess theming comes specifically from chapter 1, and queen is really clearly directly related to king. i don't see how there could be bosses themed around pawns, bishops and rooks when we already have enemies from chapter 1 who are literally those chess pieces. chapter 1 also has a bunch of chess theming everywhere, so having the main theme of the game also be that would be a little weird to me
The knight is the knife and there is to much evidence for it to be as thoroughly ignored as it is. -the knight is always referred to as an "IT" when in the light world and a "THEY" when in the dark world. I.E. a darkner -The term "long hand" is a term for a knife's handle (a knife's handle is elongated past the point where a normal hand would fall on it to keep the center of mass under the place where you should hold it and is consequently called "the long hand") -Knives are supposed to be tools (like darkners are supposed to be tools for lightners according to Ralsei) but can be used as weapons to fight (like darkners should fight lightners according to spade king who claims to have been inspired by the knight) -all the evidence/theories pointing to Kris Knight have the hole of kris not being able be both the hero and the knight, but if "the knight" is the darkner who happened to be used to open the fountain instead of Kris themselves, the theory's holes are closed, without contradicting any evidence supporting those theories, this also works for all the Kris-adjacent knight variants, like the "third entity" theory or the "puppet Kris" theory or any theories for the other lightner allies. -when the queen tells the story of the knight, the image she shares is focused on THE KNIFE and not the person holding it. If she's telling the story of the knight obviously she's gonna focus the image on the knight. Kinda meta evidence: -the THEMES, the theme of control, and influence and puppets and freedom work so much better if the major villains is a LITERAL TOOL -most of the other theories (Alvin included) feel more like attaching a mismatched plot thread for character development later. I.E. helping Alvin get over his dad in the church level, the way you convinced Noelle to open up a bit more in the cyber world.
oh wow, this is really interesting... especially since other items kris takes into the dark world get transformed into something, like their pencil turns into a sword, but we don't see anything relating to their huge kitchen knife that they carry around everywhere. it would also explain why the knight appears everywhere, it's not because they're some strange person who keeps sneaking around, it's literally in kris's pocket for the entire game..
16:48 oh COME ON MAN tehre was an entirely different corelation you couldve made! in reguards to priests and congregational churches.. that being -of course- say... "alterior motives"?
Have you seen JaruJaruJ's video on his version of the knight? I think it answers/gives a new perspective on the story. I never believed in the Kris knight theory for 2 reasons, and he covered both of them (1 - why would Toby show the villain of the game blatantly doing it in the 2nd chapter, and 2 - Queen says that the Knight made the fountain *today* not last night. So Kris would have no time to make it). The video is a bit long, but I think it's worth it, as he goes into EXTREME depth into every characater in it, as well as Alvin, so as his other videos! Especially his Spamton Analysis video.
I did watch Jaru's video, but that was when it came out so that was a WHILE ago lol. All I really remember is freaking out about how much Rouxls Knight makes sense and being frustrated that he'd discount certain candidates based on the number of fingers on Queen's crude representation of the Knight's hand. The reasons you bring up are pretty good though! But to play devil's advocate there's still ways to interpret it that works I think. Queen is a computer after all, so she'd likely view "today" as anytime from 12:00AM to 11:59PM on a certain date, meaning if it was after midnight it could still have been "today". As for why Toby would show the Knight so early, who knows? I think there's some convincing evidence that the Knight isn't the final boss of Deltarune, so maybe Toby is trying to be different instead of creating another Asgore situation where the main threat for most of the game is unseen. Obviously I think that Kris probably isn't the Knight but, it's worth thinking through every possibility.
@@guiltyflygon I agree that the Knight won't be the final boss, and the candidates being voted off solely because of the drawing is a bit harsh. A few more issues to the Kris being the Knight theory, is if they are, and they did indeed make the fountain at 12 : 00 or later, then how did nobody notice the fountain in the computer lab before Kris entered it in Chapter 2? Kris leaves *after class* meaning that the fountain would have to be up for a long time, and nobody would notice it? Ralsei also doesn't notice that this new dark world has opened up until after you leave for the library, and then he hurried over, which implies that they made the fountain right then, but Kris was with us when this was happening, which would be downright impossible for them to make it. And, if Kris was the knight, how would the Spade King, Seam, Jevil, and the Queen not know that you're the knight? Seam talks about the knight directly locking the kings up and putting the Spade King in power, the Spade King himself worships the knight, Jevil has clearly forbidden knowledge about the knight, and Queen has face-reading tech, and she has to have met the knight, because she doesn't know what the Roaring is, yet she calls the Knight the 'Roaring Knight', as well as having a *long hand* and Kris does not have long hands, hinted at by Kris not being able to reach the controls on the arcade cabinet. So they know what they look like, and have talked to them. She also has a video of the knight making a fountain. I don't think it's COMPLETELY impossible... But I think it's unlikely, but who knows what Toby has in store for us!
1) Because you don't know the Why of Kris doing it. That is still a Mystery. And it draws attention to the Player/Player Character dynamic, as well a Freedom vs. Control. 2) A Day can be 24 hours and that is how a Computer would think.
@@StrayBulletXIII If Kris is the Knight, Kris made Ralsei. He is an extension of the Knight's Will. Therefore, If Kris wants Ralsei to lie, he will lie. And the Dark Fountain rooms just.. look like a Dark Room. About the Darkners not know the Knight directly, Kris would only have to stage the Rooms ahead of time, and then, imbue their Will into the Darkness of the Fountain. Basically, The Knight imagined them that way, so they are that way. But the Darkners never visually see them. It is just The Knight's Will place inside the objects. The Knight imagined they should know the stuff you mentioned, so they know the stuff you mentioned. And the Video creating the Cyber World Fountain doesn't show the Knight's face.
i still think kris is the knight also nobody said that the knight (kris) was in the first dark world all that seam said was quote a strange knight appeared... And three of the kings were locked away. The remaining king(king?) put him (the kinght) and his strange son(lancer) into power. and toby said that the dark fountain corrupter king not the knight(kris) cool vid alvin knight is my second bet
What about the king’s throne room, which has lots of slashes? I guess they can be from the three kings fighting King, but King uses a Chain, although it also looks like a spade, or a shovel. Not exactly a slicing weapon. Also, why would the King destroy his own throne room? I guess it could be from the other kings, but they don’t seem very strong, and we don’t know what weapons they use, if any.
@@waluigiisthebest2802 king also has just regular spades plus all three kings where locked up in the same cage where they should still have magic but they never escape plus it parable that the throne room was all four of themes throne room and i don't think king cares or maybe the dark fountain made him stronger
The first person to call the Knight the "Roaring Knight" is Queen in CH2, and then afterward Susie parrots it at the CH2 fountain sealing. Queen doesn't know what the Roaring even is when she calls the Knight the Roaring Knight, so we have no idea where she got that name from. We know Queen never actually met the Knight, just saw them from afar, so it's within reason she made the name up or based it off of some facet of Darkner lore that the Knight may not be aware of. As she later says, "I'm Just A Computer LMAO I Don't Know Everything. I Was Just Guessing Based Off The Knight's Actions" If you want to go in another direction, maybe Ralsei made up the Roaring as a way to convince Queen to stop her quest for world domination peacefully, and THAT's why the Roaring suddenly becomes a big deal moments after we hear "Roaring Knight" for the first time. Basically what I'm saying is that I'm personally confident the Knight isn't trying to cause the Roaring based on their actions, and that being the case, the name "Roaring Knight" must be a title more than a job description. In a similar vein to "Prince from the Dark" for Ralsei in the prophecy. The Knight may be prophesized to cause the Roaring, but that doesn't mean that's their main goal.
Ok, so I still need to watch the entire video, but whenever someone brings Alvin being the Knight, I unironically joke like "Wait until he is revealed to be the Praying Bishop". Either I just don't understand who bishops are, or people don't take into consideration that other chess pieces may also become characters, or, rather, already are (Asgore being the king, Noelle's mother being the queen... Which is already a thing, so maybe Toriel idk... But yeah, thinking about it, those seem to be dark world bosses at the time)
It is interesting that the light world also has parallels in Chess Theory, though that could go to explain how Alvin can be a bishop and a knight all at once. He's the white bishop, but also the black knight.
I think that one flaw not mentioned in the video is that Alvin being the Knight is just... narratively unsatisfying. The Knight is incredibly important, like, the most important character minus the Kris, Susie, Ralsei, and Noelle, so this random, new character who has nothing special about him and is completely indistinguishable from every other filler NPC, other than sprite and dialogue, is just unsatisfying as a twist. A far more interesting twist would be having a known character be the Knight, whether that be Kris, Susie, Noelle, hell even Ralsei. Papyrus, Asgore, etc. tbh, I think Toby's actually in a really tough spot since I can't see any current candidate for the Knight (other than maybe Kris and Rouxls (I'm not even joking; it would so hilarious)) being completely satisfying, since they either sum up to not making sense, or just being unsatisfying. Out of every mystery, I think the Knight and Dess are probably the spiciest ones Toby's gonna have to deal with. edit: Also, side note, the rules card is simultaneously the most important card, and the least important, since it is impossible to play the game without first knowing the rules. So Rouxls is simultaneously the most powerful Darkner, and the least powerful, at least going off of the logic that the overworld values apply to Darkners.
You could say the same thing about Asgore in Undertale (as in he's basically a non-character until he's revealed at the very end) and I think that twist works out pretty well. Honestly I think the biggest thing that's going to make the Knight interesting whoever they are is what their motives are, as (at least in my opinion) it doesn't seem to actually be wanting to cause the Roaring. Rouxls Knight would be very funny though 😂
@@guiltyflygon That's true, but they are different types of twists. Alvin is a side character going to antagonist, while Asgore is a major character built up as a villain, but is actually just a really conflicted guy. I agree though, that I don't really care who the Knight actually is. It's definitely their motives that's interesting. My theory is that the Knight is leading Kris somewhere. We know that Kris is the only one who can seal the fountains, cause of the Soul, and we know that each character levels up from sealing a fountain (maybe?), so maybe the Knight is intentionally making Kris stronger. Maybe to seal the Castle Town fountain? Or maybe the Knight can see the future and is trying to prevent something by making Kris go through these areas. I do 100% think that the Knight and Kris are tied though. What I haven't seen anyone mention though, is that the Prophecy Ralsei spoke of has no mention of the Knight. Almost like the Knight isn't part of the prophecy. Just an interesting detail.
SPEAKING OF [[Communion]]... KRIS, DID YOU KNOW THAT THE KNIGHT
And then starts apologizing after looking at Kris, and communion isn't confirmed to be in the angel's religion
@SoreWaChigauZo where?
Nah it was confession that was confirmed to not be part of it
@@Theloliconprincess yeah that makes no sense
@@diamondmemer9754 alvin directly alludes to communion through the image of the "sick fruit juice"
He is the knight, he keeps putting fountains in my house to "convert me to christainity" or whatever is his knockoff religion.
30:50 also... the bunker is completely skippable, yet no one denies it having weird shit happening
hell even rudy is skippable lol
well, theres still 5 chapters left, theres plenty of time
Thats a triple negative, im trying to figure out what this means lol
@@huskadog7748 itd supposed to say no one* not no, sorry abt that 😭
basically: even though the bunker is a skippable area (like alvin), most people think the bunker is suspicious
@@catticus6637 also you said no one denies it doesn't have weird shit lmfao. Meaning no one says it has weird shit
"Is the Knight a Lighter?" Well, have we seen Deltarune's Grillby yet? No, so there is a non-zero chance that he could be the knight. Close to zero, but hey!
I personally think Heats Flamesman is the knight
@@Sirhc_B8207Don't you mean Hots Fireguy?
Regarding chess theory, I think there are two very plausible fixes to alvin knight that would fit into the story telling, that I could definititely see toby doing
1) The more possible one- We fight the knight in chapter 4 but they are disguised in armor. They escape without their identity being discovered. In chapter 5 we will fight the bishop, who ends up being alvin, who also reveals himself as the knight.
A way this could play out is that after you originally defeat the masked knight, you start to track him down. After chasing him to the next dark world (the church- a perfect place for alvin of all people to hide in-) you slowly start to uncover that the knight and the bishop are in fact the same person, so when you end up fighting “the bishop” its actually just another fight against alvin.
The second way this could play out is the reverse of that. You fight the bishop (alvin) first, which would “clear” alvin from being the knight in the eyes of the player (you already encountered and fought him), but then upon running into the knight later on its revealed that alvin lied after his bishop defeat and it really was him all along.
I definitely see route 1 as being much more likely but both could happen, and if you just consider that you could end up fighting the “knight” canonically twice it makes a lot more sense
Also- Its possible that noelle is the bishop, considering that she ends snowgrave with a violent act of rebellion against kris (“I will kill berdly- but just so you stop asking and also to prove how bad of an idea this is!”), so its possible noelle strays from the protagonist path and does a classic silly girl charecter gets confused and turns briefly evil moment but I think noelle would end up being the pawn if anything
(While im spitballing ralsei could also be the pawn because as susie points out, ralsei actively leaves all their decisions in charge of kris. Something like “Hey why does kris get to make all the choices?” In chapter two before susie grabs ralsei and runs off with them- which even further cements that ralsei is under the control of susie as well.
Personally I think CH4 will have 2 bishops (same for CH3 with Rooks) and they'll both be darkners whilst CH5 will have 2 Knights but one will be a darkner and the other will be the knight. (Also CH6 will have the last 2 pawns as a main boss and a secret boss but CH7 will still have a secret boss.)
I definitely think Alvin knight is plausible - most of the evidence against him is narrative, in that we haven't seen how the overarching themes (coming of age, social images, the nature of friendships and fiction) connect to him separately from his father. The main thematic connection he DOES fit, too, is the sort of "flawed family situations" theme that'd include Gerson by default. It's very possible to make those themes work; Toby's just a narrative enough writer that I'm leery until the groundwork actually gets laid.
I guess it makes sense that Mayor/Carol Knight is my favorite, then. We know next to nothing concrete about her, only that she's seen as cold and fastidious (which can be unpacked almost as easily as Kris). She's actively orchestrating the festival, reflected by half of Cyber World and specifically Jevil in ch.1. She's THE authority in town, directly mirroring King, Queen, and presumably Tenna. Her two family members are the biggest new characters outside the $!$! Squad themselves, even before noelle's glitch/Dess foreshadowings pay off. Hell, there's even pun real estate available with "Knightmay'r Night" and "Fountain Pen" being sick as hell song names.
I've never thought of the "fountain pen" pun lol... Maybe there's more to mayor knight than I thought?
I personally don't like her as Knight because she's already been explored. She's Queen in all senses besides literally being Queen, just like Susie is Lancer and King is her father. The characters in the dark world are being used to explore their lightener counterparts, so why would the Mayor be the Knight when she has already served a narrative purpose and has been characterized through Queen? The puns are fun, but the Mayor is just as mysterious as Susie's dad, they've been explored, the characters just need to complete their arcs through them as they experienced growth through their counterpart.
HEY I WAS THE DUDE WHO TALKED ABOUT GERSON/ALVIN INITIALLY!! Yes, he may not be the knight; but LORDS CAN KNIGHT PEOPLE. And if Gerson is dead? The Lord of the Hammer; his title passes on to his firstborn child. (Either Alvin, Ms. Boom, or maybe some other Boom child) Not alot of concrete ideas to that- but it's just a small thought.
Thanks for the video idea lol 😆
Wait, "take a vacation straight to hell"? And Burger Pants in UT said "I can't go to hell, I'm out of vacation days"?
I think that may be because they're both salesmen, but it could definitely be deeper.
""Too many excess vacation days???? Take a goddamn vacation straight to hell!"" is both a reference to Burgerpants and to an Exception Access Violation in computer code (where a program tries to access a data block that its not allowed to).
@@TheSkyGuy77 ok no obligation to indulge me, but are you up for explaining more about that? It sounds fascinating. Is it because excess sounds like access? Or what about it is a reference? Edit: please feel free to get technical, I don't mind if it goes over my head. I've written a few Android apps but I'm no pro coder. I just love the stuff.
@@ofconsciousness
It's more of a PC sort of thing, but I guess there are ways it could happen on phones.
Excess sounds like access and vacation could be misheard as violation.
An access violation can happen when any program tries to use more memory than it was allocated. To protect the overall OS from breaking, it halts that program in its tracks. (Kinda like how Spamton got forbidden knowledge he's not supposed to have)
And Burgerpants only says that he "can't go to hell; I'm all out of vacation days" on the No Mercy route.
@@TheSkyGuy77 fascinating. Thank you!
This is very well organized! I'm still on team Kris Knight, but Alvin Knight is a very strong second place contender for me. I'm fully ready for Kris Knight to be either confirmed or deconfirmed really early on in Chapter 3, and if it does turn out to be wrong Alvin is my go to option.
I will say that I do believe that, regardless of who the Knight is, the Chapter 2 fountain was made before Berdly and Noelle arrived and the Knight wasn't ever hiding in the closet. A lot of the computer lab seems to be set up before the fountain was open to influence the dark world itself. The spam emails that represent Spamton have been printed out, it's stated that someone has left the laptop that represents queen on, you could even interpret the library storage closet being open as the Knight going through the closet to grab the items needed to become Darkners(and maybe steal a couple for themselves like you suggested). I'd also like to point out that I think the Knight created the Library fountain in the middle of the room, directly in front of the open laptop that represents queen. Queen has a video of the Knight creating the fountain. And while that could have been done with various magical bullshit, I think it would be interesting if she had that since the laptop that represents her literally had its Webcam facing the Knight as they made the fountain.
Also, and I couldn't fit this in anywhere else in this comment, but I am hesitant to believe that the Knight has entered any of the Dark Worlds they have created. Both Ralsei and Lancer say that the only way for the Lightners to leave is to seal the fountain, and the only contradiction to that is our ability to leave Castle Town in Chapter 2. It's hard to say if Ralsei didn't offer us that option originally due to him withholding information or if he only gained that ability when he leveled up after Kris sealed the fountain. Both are likely, and it is still unclear if this is an ability unique to him/his dark world. It could easily be explained that the Knight has some other way of leaving Dark Worlds, but until we get that I'm hesitant.
To explain how the Knight helped put the Spade king in charge without entering the fountain we could look back on how the Knight prepped the Cyber World before creating it. The knight could've simply removed all the king cards from the deck besides the Spade King, and then placed the other three kings in a box of animal crackers. It isn't far fetched to say that the unused classroom had been prepped for the Card Kingdom like how the Cyber World was. All the toys are strewn out even though this place has been abandoned since presumably Gerson died. Wouldn't someone have cleaned it at least once?
Why the Knight is prepping the fountains in such a specific way is up in the air right now. With Alvin Knight this could be part of the process of bringing Gerson back, or Gaster is guiding Alvin on what to do to fulfill his own goals.
But with Kris Knight this becomes a lot more interesting. I think that Kris has some level of knowledge of what is going to happen in the future. They plug in the television in preparation for Susie coming over and making their dark world, the narration says it isn't time to wash your hands at the beginning of chapter 2/trying to use the kitchen sink prompts you to use the bathroom one instead, Kris seems very particular about setting up the area around where they make a fountain, and even them eating the pie gave them an opportunity to slip away and slash Toriel's tires(if the pie had still been there Susie and Toriel wouldn't have started baking).
There are a couple ideas you could explore to explain how Kris knows this. The simplest is that Gaster is directing Kris on what to do. Kris already has a lot in common with Spamton, why not have them also get instructions from Gaster? It's simple, but it's not my favorite explanation.
There is also timeloop theory! The idea that everything has already happened and only Kris and maybe Gaster know about it. I do like timeloop theory, it's fun and it would be really cool, but I am hesitant to believe that Kris remembers any time shenanigans. Kris currently shows no signs of remembering things we did i previous timelines. If you save before killing Berdly and then kill Berdly before loading the save to do it again Kris shows no changes in behavior. Even Frisk showed changes in how they acted when reloading fights/entire sections of the game, and Kris is far more capable of expressing their thoughts than Frisk ever was. You could make the argument that the actual timeloop is different from saving and loading and that's why they can remember, and while that could be true it doesn't sit right with me.
My go to explanation for Kris' knowledge is Test Run Theory. That theory posits that there was an original run-through of the events of Deltarune, but in that run, the player was not involved. Due to our absence, shit went wrong and Gaster reset things back to the beginning and introduced us into the situation to try and create a more favorable outcome. He originally wanted to give us a unique vessel, but somehow we got stuck with Kris instead. Since we are connected to Kris that gave them the extra power to remember the original timeline and make plans accordingly.
With that theory, I think it means that the Shadow Crystals when used in the light world allow you to see what happened in that original timeline: Susie never softened up and Kris possibly died(unclear since they are shown to be transparent).
Kris' goal with this knowledge is the prevent things for going wrong this time around, and they do that by becoming the Knight and filling the role of antagonist. The prophecy says that a great calamity Will occur regardless of what the heroes do, so it is that the Angel's Heaven is a cataclysm that is destined to happen regardless of what the Knight does.
I think Kris is opening these fountains and filling the role of the Knight in order to make their friends stronger. But necessarily Snowgrave levels of stronger, but still strong enough to stop whatever the Angel's Heaven is. Whenever a fountain is sealed, the gang levels up and gets stronger. The adventures they go through also make them stronger as a group. Susie forms a close bond with Kris and starts to get closer to Noelle, Noelle learns to stand up to people, Berdly becomes slightly less of a jackass, and I'm sure that pattern will continue with each chapter. All of these things wouldn't have happened without the Dark Fountains, and if the heroes haven't had the right character development they might not have a chance at stopping the Angel's Heaven.
The Snowgrave route could be an overtuned version of this idea. Forgoing the relationships of the group for harnessing raw power. Noelle and Susie's relationship, the Darkners in the Cyber World, Noelle's confidence, Berdly's life, you don't need any of that if Noelle is strong enough to compensate.
Honestly, the Test Run theory could be applied to any Knight candidate as a way of explaining what they are doing. It easily explains why the Knight isn't actively working to cause the Roaring as they are just trying to prepare the Fun Gang for the apocalypse on the horizon.
This is the most convincing theorizing I've ever read for Kris Knight, thanks for this!
This is the most convincing essay on Kris-Knight I've seen yet!
I'm not exactly a firm believer of Kris-Knight, but I am fairly sure that Kris planned the living room fountain since at least end of chapter 1. I'm also willing to believe they made the library fountain. But I don't think they're responsible for the unused classroom. Your argument that the Knight simply manipulated the objects in the light world to put the Spade King in power sounds like a plausible explanation, as in if they said that in-game I would buy it. But for now it feels a little weird, because the darkners, and especially Seam, talk like the Knight is a person (an unusually powerful person, but still). I mean, if the Knight influenced things from a higher layer of reality, then it's basically like the hand of God creating miracles, right? But calling God "a strange knight" sounds a little odd, doesn't it?
And if you want to excuse this by claiming the darkners can somehow see the people in the light world while their fountain is closed, enough to describe them like any other person, wouldn't that mean they should recognize Kris? Why is Seam giving exposition on the Knight to the Knight? Why is Spade King attacking the Knight that he practically worships? Are all the darkners who ever mention it conspiring together to make sure to mislead us? Because I feel that would be a stretch.
And while we're at the topic of noone acting like Kris is the Knight, I gotta bring up how Spamton, while he's explicitly alone with Kris, says "Did you know that the Knight--?" before he gets cut off. And while this is Spamton, so I can't _really_ outrule he wanted to say "Did you know the Knight is you?", it still doesn't sound like the most normal thing to say. If Kris is the Knight and Spamton knows or at least suspects it, why phrase it this way? And if it's a secret plan to pretend like he doesn't know, why is he bringing it up at all?
Anyway, that's just my guess. I'm not ruling out Kris-Knight completely just yet. We should see soon, chapters 3 & 4 should either confirm or debunk it
@@nataliaborys1554 that's definitely fair, and I can definitely see it being confirmed later that the Knight is just special and can leave Dark Worlds without issue. But until then the idea that they helped overthrow the kings by manipulating the room makes the most sense. Plus we can be pretty sure that the Knight never entered the Cyber World, but Queen still sees them as a regular person and also somehow knew they were called the Roaring Knight(a name she couldn't have come up with on her own since she had no clue what the Roaring was), so it seems like there is something weird going on between Darkners and the person who makes their fountain. Maybe the thoughts and intentions of the one creating the fountain influence how the Darkners act and what they believe? In Undertale there was a lot of emphasis placed on intentions shaping how humans interacted with monsters. In Deltarune that dichotomy between humans and monsters seems to be gone and instead is focusing on how Lightners interact with Darkners so I wouldn't be surprised if they have their own version of a similar idea.
Ok, so I only read half of it, but I really like your thoughts. I just stopped to talk about Gaster since I think there is no way for him to be on the same side with The Knight. Gaster already cooperates with "The Player", encouraging them to keep moving on, so that the world won't get covered in darkness, and The Player doesn't really seem to be on good terms with Kris. But, Kris and Gaster are definitely aware of each other, you can't really argue with a giant sealed bunker in the middle of the forest making Gaster noises. The question is just what are they going to do about each other (there's also Gaster possibly being the man behind the tree, who appears to Kris in Ch2 after you find him, but given that we are in control at that moment, he could also be contacting The Player, so idk)
The only issue with the fountain being there before noelle and berdly got there, is that if they entered the dark world instead of having it be made while they were there, they wouldnt have been able to be convinced it was a dream.
As a Kris Knight truther I still think Alvin Knight is the second most compelling answer just because of how well it'd hit if Toby played his cards right
People saying it'd be to obvious and that it's clearly a red herring ignore the fact that you can know the twist of something, yet still want to see it happen just because of the consequences
Literally everyone and their mother knew that Dabi was related to Todoroki (both had fire quirks, similar motifs, alot of sus panels involving the two, "Ohhh jeez remember that missing sibling ohhh it's so sad what happened to him")
If you had a brain, you saw it coming
That didn't make it any less impactful. There is a reason why Dabi's Dance was LITERALLY TRENDING HIGHER THAN THE US ELECTION
It's never about the surprise factor it's about the aftermath of the twist that matters
i would kill for a video about noelle/carol knight :3
I would love a Knight Mayor video! I think her, Noelle, and Alvin have a lot of knight potential, esecially as they're new characters. As for existing characters, I think Asgore and Papyrus have a shot (Kris is an ok candidate, just not one that I really want to see being the knight)
ooh Carol knight is my second favorite knight theory after Papyrus
Hey wait, I know you, you make cute animations
I've always liked Alvin Knight theory but, you know...so often in knight theories (either to help prove or disprove) people zero in on "there MUST be an explanation on how they can wandera round the school/library" but I just keep thinking...IS there, though?
The school has 2 teachers and the front door is unlocked. During the entire school day you can reasonably just go in wherever; after school's out you can just go in as you please after they've left. There's plenty of time for anyone to just head in at minimal risk of being "spotted"
The library is just a public space. Literally anyone could go in there and it seems like it's not a very heavily trafficked place, so there's plenty of time to just pop in at your leisure when you think you're in the clear. Which Chapter 2 offered considering no one else was in the library (& if anyone came in suddenly hey there's a closet to hide in)
I think this would be a bigger question to have to resolve if it was somewhere less "public" like Asgore's store (where he lives and presumably would hear someone either coming in or breaking in) or if someone ELSE had made the Dreemur Residence fountain or the Hospital (which is a public space but is much more populated). As it is, it feels like something that could be removed from every knight theory (for or against) and lose nothing to its foundation.
I get ya, but there's a little more to it.
It's isn't just the people in the locations, it's everyone else in town. Like, even if the Knight was able to easily waltz into the school unnoticed by the attendants, the school is the only building on that side of the town. Is it really so weird to think that no-one would see someone leaving that area that shouldn't be there and talking about it to Kris later? Like, 80% of Hometown seem to be gossips lol. We get stories told to us about Onion-san hearing a weird noise and Pizzapants's coworkers. I just think if anyone saw someone unexpected going towards or inside the school they'd ask Kris, "Yo, what was up with that guy, did you see that?"
The Librarby is a similar case during Chapter 2 only because of the traffic jam. If the Knight isn't Noelle or Berdley then presumably they'd have to enter and escape the Librarby during the jam, which means once again the people who can do so are narrowed down significantly.
Obviously if the truth ends up being that the Knight just broke into both these places at nighttime and made the fountains then all of this doesn't matter, but I think for now it's still worth considering.
@@guiltyflygon I guess, really thinking more about it, what my thing really is...
The idea of opportunity mattering has yet to come up either way in the narrative. No one has been gossiping about it and heck no one's even wondering when the Knight's had these opportunities. The closest we've come is that Rudy & Noelle have specifically mentioned that Kris does not usually come to the Hospital, but that's a different thing. No one really gossips about Alphys and she literally hangs out in an Alleyway frequently, you know? No one really talks about Sans or his brother either; I don't think Papyrus has been mentioned by anyone other than Sans at all.
Basically it doesn't seem something worth thinking about until the idea of it needs to matter, & at that point we'll likely start getting dialog (either from active investigation or coincidental-gossip) to let us figure it out. And at that point likely every suspect would get mentioned and be earmarked as potentially suspicious behavior regardless of how much sense it would be.
And also...I guess just about every major suspect (that doesnt have weird Meta Shenanigans) the community has their eyes on already has built in excuses. Kris & Noelle have free run of the library/school, Alphys knight theory isn't super well run but she also obviously does both, Alvin is a respected member of the community and probably cares about The Youth even without his connection to Gerson, Mayor is overly controlling, etc.
There's definitely people around town who would have harder times doing this but those people are also never in serious conversation. Any time I see the theories people bring them up and then immediately answer them because all of them just have that innately. Papyrus is the only one where it MIGHT matter, but we haven't even seen him and no one but Sans has mentioned him so we have nothing to go on so anything could be going on there. Some people think he's a child now but for all we know the joke will be he's a respected adult member of the community and no one's thought to talk about him until he was relevant like wow Kris how could you not know about Papyrus he goes to the school and library all the time lol you gotta get out of your room more.
It's what I mean when it could be removed from the conversation and lose nothing on the "it's them/it's not them" foundation until we start getting fountains that are less public spaces or suspects that have less wiggle room or the idea of an alibi starts to matter. Everyone pretty much has opportunity for the School & Library, but if the next one was like the town hall or diner -especially if these happened during the day rather than overnight- then it's time to start asking questions you know?
Actually maybe that'd be a fun part of theory crafting, "how could this suspect make fountains at these locations going forward"
I will say the answer being obvious does not make the mystery bad, in fact the opposite is true: if you approach a mystery via "what would be the most shocking reveal" you create a shitty mystery because rather than set up clues beforehand you just go "this is the answer" at random, meaning the viewer can't solve it for themselves and the answer wouldn't be satisfactory, especially if it doesn't make sense and/or contradicts things we have been shown already.
so someone being 'too obvious' to be the knight is a shitty way to toss away a possibility, because that means you care more about the surprise of the mystery rather than how it affects the story and characters.
It could be that Alvin is trying to bring his father back as a darkner and so he used the classroom with the picture Alvin drew of Gerson, then the library to use one of Gersons books but had to change plans because Berdly and Noelle surprised him. That would also make chapter three a skip in Alvin's rhythm because he had nothing to do with this fountain. I'm thinking chapter four or five will have a fountain in the church with Alvin using an object his father's ashes were placed on, maybe that object is even the hammer and Gerson isn't forming in the dark worlds because Alvin's holding onto him. So the only way to see his father is to figuratively and literally let go of him.
I haven't seen much discussions around Noelle Knight Theory so I'll be interested in seeing your take on it.
Great video!
Black pawns actually uses for puzzles in the Crimson Forest.
50:10 thing is, Alvin living in the church or connected to it isn't actually particularly unrealistic!!
many christian churches irl have connected/neighboring parsonages, which are basically buildings/houses owned by the church for clergy to live in
perhaps if the deltarune church has a parsonage, that could be included in a dark world made there, which could tell us more abt alvin
oh also!!!! in the feudal system of medieval Europe, knights were often the sons of nobility, like lords and in undertale, gerson is the lord of the hammer :] gerson could also likely be considered a merchant due to his smithing and writing (to a degree) and could therefore also be considered upper class enough to have a knight son :]
Regarding Gerson being an anagram, isn't Gerson's name a reference to a Super Smash Bros. player?
if that's the case then said person has a lot of explaining to do!
Yeah he's known for an infamous case of turtling in a tournament. His opponent's name had Boom in it and the match almost lasted an hour.
I had no idea about this lol. That explains some things 😅
When the whole game is released i will miss this times of theorising
So Spamton AND Burgerpants both talk about using vacation days to go to hell? Is this a connection?
I think it may be because they're both kind of unhinged shopkeepers, but we know from Undertale that shopkeeps have a sort of special relationship with the game world where they can't be attacked, so there's definitely something to chew on there if you wanted to.
Also, thanks for the dono! 🫡
@@guiltyflygon oooh great points! And thank YOU for the content!
I really like this theory!!! Never thought about who closed the door in ch1. Additionally, we do end up seeing black pawns in ch1! In one of the scarlet forest rooms I believe they’re the ones who swing around those diamonds like where you have to dodge em.
Ah, I do think I knew that at some point but I forgot lol. Thanks
@@guiltyflygon @kewlkid4364 As for the who closed the door in chapter 1 thing, I've always assumed (and I've heard it in a theory video, I forgot who's it was), that it was Sans who closed it as he's the janitor (or at least says something about being the janitor). How Sans got there go quickly idk, but given that he can teleport in ut, maybe he can do it in dr?
Also you should make a theory like this for every popular knight candidate 😂
A video about the Noelle knight theory could be very interesting! It's one of those theories that I usually see thrown around as kind of a meme, so I'd curious to see actual arguments in it's favour!
Ty for dropping this on my 9 hour shift, I got some entertainment 😭
I'm seeing a lot of Kris Knight chatter and I'm a little confused why this hasn't already been debunked. Kris couldn't have created the fountain in the computer lab because both Berdly and Noelle (especially Noelle) are confused how they ended up in the Dark World and both assume they were sleeping, accepting it as a dream afterwards. We know they are both very smart (Berdly may be reliant on Noelle's help but it's not like he's a complete moron on his own) so the idea that they opened the computer lab doors and walked into the Dark World without noticing it is absurd. Kris and Susie both visibly react both times a door to a Dark World is opened, even before they know what's going on at the school closet. The only option that makes sense in my mind for when the library fountain was created is after Noelle and Berdly were both in the computer lab. Kris was still at school then and has a rock-solid alibi. Also notice that Noelle and Berdly are sitting at a desk when the fountain is closed, while Kris and Susie are standing just inside the door. This seems straightforward to me, am I missing something?
There's actually definitive evidence against that version of events within the game. The traffic jam next to the library was created by the annoying dog, who we know is also in the dark world in chapter 2. Not only that but it's much further into the dark world than Berdly or Noelle are. That means that the dark world had to be created before Noelle and Berdly entered the computer lab, since if it was made while they were in the computer lab, at best them and the annoying dog would have entered the dark world at the same time if it came in right when the fountain was being made, so it would make no sense that the annoying dog was much deeper into the dark world than Noelle or Berdly are. With how large the traffic jam is it's also safe to say that it was quite a while ago that the annoying dog created it, although there's no way to know for sure.
Also if you walked up to a computer lab and it was dark inside, you'd most likely walk into it to get to its light switch and turn the lights on, it's completely reasonable for Noelle and Berdly to have thought that the computer lab's lights just weren't on, instead of assuming something magical was at play. It's also important to note that Berdly and Noelle didn't have Ralsei to explain what was happening when they first entered the dark world like Kris and Susie did. Most people in their situation would assume they were dreaming, even if they couldn't recall falling asleep or even sitting down since your memories are if not completely inaccessible during a dream very fuzzy.
For your other point, remember that Susie and Kris left chapter 1's dark world and entered the light world in different places than they had entered the dark world in. This makes sense, since the dark world are abstracted representations of the spaces they're made in, so leaving the dark world in a different place than you entered would logically put you in a different spot in the light world. Keeping that in mind remember how at the end of chapter 2 Kris and Susie leave Noelle and Berdly to go to the dark fountain and seal it, it makes sense that Noelle and Berdly are in one spot together and Kris and Susie are in another spot together in the light world. Although that is built in more speculative evidence so it's not 100% confirmed like the previous point is.
@@ninjabunny9526 Thank you for such an in-depth response! They're not bad points, so I can't dismiss them out of hand, even if I still think Kris Knight is unlikely. The only thing I wouldn't necessarily agree with is the Annoying Dog's presence; since it represents Toby and has shown numerous times it can ignore the laws of space, I don't think its location in the Dark World can be taken as evidence one way or another. You can't even get back to the street where he runs you over once that gag plays out. But the light switch stuff is valid, and I forgot Noelle and Birdley are separated from Kris and Susie during the sealing. Guess we'll just have to see.
@@Dudeman23rd the annoying dog actually shows up twice in the chapter 2 dark world. While the first one might not even be real since you can miss it and also that area isnt accessible after dying in it once, the second one is actually mandatory and definitely real since it's the thing holding the platter that Kris Susie and Ralsei ride on while in Queen's castle. It isn't necessarily definitive proof, I suppose, since you pointed out the less than canonical powers of the annoying dog at times, but it is important to note that the annoying dog isn't just a one-off gag in chapter 2, which may give more credence to it disproving the "chapter 2 dark fountain was made while Noelle and Berdly were already in the lab" theory.
Although then again the nature of theorizing about Deltarune with as little information that we are given means that really nothing can be 100% confirmed yet lul
@@ninjabunny9526 Good point. I actually remembered the part with the platters while I was writing my reply, but still discounted it since it's written in as a goofy deus ex machina (he doesn't just help you find the key, he then destroys it and explodes the door open anyway). But yeah, I'm lucid enough to not try and get too confident when we only have 2/7 of a game to work with.
Really enjoyed this video
In regards to the Knight, here are my two cents.
I personally believe Kris opened the Computer lab fountain, and is the Knight referred to by Queen in Chapter 2.
There is so much connective tissue pointing to this. Firstly, we have the ending of Chapter 1. Kris didn’t go AWOL for no reason, they had to have been scheming for a good portion of the night, because despite us heeding Toriel’s command and going to bed early, Alphys in the morning of Chapter 2 still comments on our apparent lack of sleep.
So beyond eating the pie (which would not have been a time consuming task for Kris) the only peculiar changes in Hometown that we observe before and after this event is the TV being plugged in, and the computer lab fountain being created.
Secondly, Queen’s illustration of the Knight is a five fingered hand, with a Knife, the _exact_ tool and mode by which Kris creates the living room fountain.
She probably depicts it this way because she has the video where “The Knight Creates the Fountain by it’s own Hand”. - And she wouldn’t recognize Kris from it because according to the flavor text you are unable to tell who is creating it due to the smoke.
Then there is also the fact that in the Chapter 1 ending, Kris brandishes a knife, of course, initially everyone’s mind immediately went to them being a murder child. But the story has clearly recontextualized knives from an object representing murder to an object representing impending fountain creating chicanery.
With all this considered, I am almost certain that Kris created the computer lab Fountain.
_But_ I do not believe they are _the_ Knight, that is referred to in Chapter 1, that is still someone different. We know the original Knight had a pretty close relationship with the Spade King in the Dark World, and he would never fraternize with Kris or any random Lightener, as you discussed.
And so The Knight, in difference to the creator of the Computer Lab Fountain who left right after creating it - Actually entered The Card Kingdom and integrated themselves within the politics of the society. Overthrowing the former kings and instating Spade King and Lancer into power.
This apparent difference in Modus operandi leads credence that these might be two different characters.
And I must say your arguments about Alvin are really strong, it almost made me convinced it might be him.
So much so that regardless if Kris or Alvin Knight is true, I’m not going to be disappointed either way.
Fantastic video, I would be interested in hearing what you have to say about a potential Noelle Knight as well.
hear me out
Alvin is the school janitor
works nightshifts during the week, still has time for church on the weekend
if we assume the supply closet would be frequently used by a janitor this makes more sense
since you would expect the janitor to go in there at least once a day/night
so he would have more than enough opportunity to make a fountain or two
I don't think Gaster will be the final boss only because you can miss out on finding the Shadow Crystals. It definitely seems that the crystals peel back a layer of reality, revealing the truth of that world to whoever peers through it. Thats why in the Dark Worlds they show the Light World and in the light world they show "nothingness" (or rather, the fact that they arent real) That sort of reality tampering is definitely related to Gaster so I feel like he'll be the secret final boss akin to Sans in Undertale. Or he isnt a boss or enemy at all and is more like the Genocide Demon at the very end of the Genocide Route? who knows
I really hope alvin knight is true. Great video!
Also a noelle knight video would be really interesting
Yooo! i am not sure you did it because of my comment, but i am glad you did! i definitley agree with your take on it. Alvin knight to me is a "logical" theorist's candidate. I am not calling other candidates illogical or bad, but i think alvin knight doesn't rely on a level of theorizing which doesn't actually have much evidence like alvin's. Like mayor knight is mostly backed by narrative potential by the people who theorize it, while i think alvin has both that and actual tangible evidence.
YESS i have been eagerly waiting for the next of your theory videos they are imo some of my favourite DR theories out there 😌
I feel like chapter 3 will tell us something about who the knight is. Probably not explicitly more like in contrast to who Kris is as a person based on how the dark worlds are different (or the lack of differences proving Kris-Knight)
Additionally thought the type or lack of secret boss. Secret bosses are either intentionally or unintentionally made. If there’s one chapter 3, and it fallows the theme of the others, then it tells us nothing about who the knight is, but if there isn’t one or it’s wildly different than kris isn’t the knight. I think it could be the case bc the Secret bosses so far have been pertain to Kris’s story in ways they’re uncomfortable with (as seen in the yes or No! Sene after spamton) so why would they intentionally make that again?
Chapter 3 is going to be a big one for confirming ongoing theories for sure
I watch alot of theories so if you've already done this ignore me, but have you looked into the theory that theres a bunker hidden under hometown? I personally think it makes alot of things click like the giant pillars in the closet being floorboards that broke and are suspended in dark water
I kind of have my take on that in a video titled: "The Closet... What is it?" It's in the Deltarune theories playlist on the channel.
All non-kris knight theories suffer the same main problem with me which is that we only have one piece of evidence for who the knight is which is more than just circumstantial, which is that Kris is the only character we've seen so far who has made a dark fountain, which is the only thing we know for certain is something that the knight does. Quite literally all we know for sure about the knight is that they have made at least two dark fountains. We don't know if they are a hero or a villain, we dont know if they want to create the roaring or not, all we can 100% say about them is that they make dark fountains. And the only character we've seen make one thus far is Kris. The fact that some other candidates wear something armor-like, or have a relation to religion or the concept of knighthood at all doesn't matter that much to me because we aren't actually sure any of those things relate to the knight at all, they're just inferences you could make.
Kris is definitely the Occam's Razor choice to be sure, but half the fun of theorizing is speculating what twists and connections we might not see coming.That said, I do think some circumstantial evidence is worthwhile seems how this is a story and not reality, so ideally some themes would come together for the candidate.
The good news about Kris Knight in comparison to any other candidate is that we'll probably know if it's true as soon as we play chapter 3 lol 😆
One thing i havent seen brought up is how the fountain levels th player, and if the knight knows this.
If the knight is kris and knows of the foundation and how it makes them stronger;- then we have a good reason for kris opening foundations even after snow grave
And if the knight isnt kris, then could they possibly trying to make kris stronger? As seen in chapter one, the doors to the storage lab shut on kris and Susie, if the knight shut the door, then they specify wanted kris or Susie to go into the dark world.
Its alot of small details in game a feel alot of people look over
I don't believe that Kris is the Knight because the identity of the main antagonist being revealed at the end of Chapter Two of Seven feels wrong to me, narrative-wise.
yeah people basing their theories on literal interpretations of a knigth forget that The Knight is only something the Darkners call them. We don't know WHY they call them the Knight beyond potentially having some sort of bladed weapon. People also likely latch onto the literal definitions due to the Knight being introduced in the vaguely medieval themedish first dark world.
it being kris is just a much stronger and more interesting possibility, due to Kris being a seperate persona from the player controlling kris and kris being pretty mysterous in terms of why and how they can rip the player out of their chest and what they go off to do when they take away your control over them. As well as how they know to make a dark fountain in the first place.
@@sarafontanini7051 its important to remember though that the Knight's title is "the Roaring Knight" which suggests this is the title the Knight gave themselves rather than something made up by Darkners. because if it was Darkners' thing, that suggests that they know at least about the existence of the Roaring or have other reason to call them this without the Knight telling them thats their title. but Queen doesnt, even though shes the one to drop the title.
If Gerson is a boss monster then Alvin would also be one. And it’s worth pointing out that he’s old. And as far as I know does not have a kid. Which means one of 3 things, he’s not a boss monster, he does have a living kid, or his kid died when he was an adult and Alvin kept living. At least I think Alvin is old enough that that’s all that would make sense. Guess I don’t know much about turtle monster biology though
Dubious… SpookyDude is becoming… JARU?!?!?!(!111?
Being mistaken for Spookydude, what an honor
@@guiltyflygon I think I was high when I wrote this
I'm only like 10 minutes into the video but the discussion of when the fountains could have been created reminds me of something completely unrelated to Alvin: doesn't Queen say that "Today, It (The Knight) deigned to create this world"? But also, other characters like the Sweet Cap'n Cakes, Swatch and Spamton either say things or indicate that the Dark World has some sort of history before the fountain. The same goes for King and the Dark World in the empty classroom. There's a whole backstory about four kings being overthrown as a RESULT of The Knight appearing.
It's just interesting to me because it sounds as if there was some level of existence for these characters before the fountains appeared. The fountains empower them, but it also destroys their world once it's sealed. It's just a bit odd to me
Sorry for ranting in your replies but my current interpretation is there's spacetime shenanigans going on.
Like, on one hand it's clear the fountains create the Dark Worlds based on the current day's setting/Lightners present---Queen says "today [the knight] deigned to create this world," Noelle's memories/personality affect the Cyber World (Spamton's shop feeling "familiar", the DECEMBER mansion security, the baseball moon etc), the current state of the lab affect Darkner circumstance (Spamton/spam ads being in the trash). On the other hand, the Darkners' history makes them more compelling characters, and they have knowledge of later Darkners which shouldn't be possible if they didn't already exist. Plus the secret bosses' interactions with Gaster feel like they were probably more than just Gaster whispering horrible truths to a literal joker card lol.
I reckon it's a variant on Last Thursdayism (the mock idea that the world was Created Last Thursday, and all memories/history retconned into existence). But I like the version where the creation of a fountain _literally_ creates that history. Like, the fountain was created in the lab, and thereafter the Cyber World had Always Been There, to the point that if you traveled back in time it would still be an earlier version of the Cyber World, until the fountain is sealed.
Then Gaster, being weird spacetime meta guy, is able to interact with both realities whenever. (IDK why Queen is so chill about their reality being kinda fake. Maybe only loser manlets are prone to madness.) IMO it would tie in nicely with the themes of determinism/choice bubbling under the surface here, too.
Convoluted, sure, but I hear it's pretty Homestuck so I doubt Toby's above it lol.
@@kitschkyyt No worried about the ramblings :p
I think the idea that the dark worlds are created with fully fledged backstories feeds into the idea that some people had when it was JUST chapter 1, that it was sort of like a game of D&D using the items in the classroom. I feel like people stopped talking about tha when chapter 2 made it more complicated than that, but it could still be true.
I think it'd make a lot of sense if the characters in the dark world just kinda came pre-built with their own histories and personalities. Like 'creating' the Dark World only gave them form, whereas before they still existed, just in a perpetual stasis waiting for the lightners to create a fountain for their world to start functioning.
@@emmiccino528 yea i definitely wouldn't say it's _just_ the D&D character backstory thing, just that any theory has to account for both the influence the Lightners/specific setting canonically has on the Dark Worlds _as well as_ the Darkners already existing/having history in some capacity. i reckon there has to be some middleground there bc like yea it is more complex now!! the simple Darkners-as-D&D-characters is less compelling anyway.
it's why i always end up back at there must be worlds-within-worlds spacetime reality bending shit going on lol.
i am a fan of the perpetual stasis idea though, maybe i'll incorporate that into my belief system.
(thanks for the chat
I kind of assumed what he was doing with the hammer was trying to spread Gerson's dust on it. It really depends on if the Knight serves the Angel in any way, which we honestly don't know for certain, we just kind of assumed.
If the Knight serves the Angel, it's probably Alvin.
If the Knight is its own player in the story, it's probably Kris.
If Alvin Knight is true, I would assume Alvin's role is not to cause the apocolypse, but merely get his father back. Maybe bring him back to life in the form of a darkner, not sure. I tend to think the Knight is his own character, because Jevil refers to "Hell's Roar" which sounds like a direct reference to the roaring, and Spamton's reference to communion could easily be just that the Knight is trying to take the place of the Angel rather than serve them. It sounds like it could just as easily be an inversion of the Angel, not service.
PLEASE!!! Please do a video on Noelle Knight! I've heard it suggested a couple times and I don't expect it will ever happen, but I would be really interested in a longer video breaking it down because it IS an interesting concept!
Here's why I think Kris Knight is false.
The fans at the end of the Chapter 1 cliffhanger : Oh no Kris is gonna go on a genocide rampage !
Toby Fox : Lol no Kris eats the pie.
The fans at the end of the Chapter 2 cliffhanger : Oh no Kris is the Knight !
Toby Fox :
Basically what I'm saying is that Toby Fox knows what he's doing. He knows what he's implying with these cliffhangers.
He makes us believe what he wants us to believe. He makes these cliffhangers imply something obvious in order to trick us into believing that this is where the story is going, only to turn things around and surprise us.
It was okay to fall for it at the end of Chapter 1, it was the first time it happened. But now Toby is tricking you basically in the exact same way he did at the end of Chapter 1 and y'all are still falling for it.
""b-b-but it makes sense!11!1""
Toby likes to do bait-and-switch in ways that make sense, but not at the time people first encounter it.
i'm not a believer in Kris Knight but I wouldn't put it past Toby Fox to do a double fake-out. make us assume "chapter is ending, kris looks evil again, haha i wonder what the wacky misunderstanding will be this time" and then playing it straight only when no one expects it
@@Baconomics1 Probably, but I don't know if he would do it now. You know the saying "Once is chance, twice is a coincidence, third time's a pattern" ? I feel like Toby would make it a pattern before turning it on its head.
Random gobeldigoosh I’m about to spout, what if each of the deltarune endings is going to lead from a deltarune mystery, like what if at the end of the game the roaring happens and after you beat the titans the world ends or something, but say if you got all the eggs you fight the vessel, or if you have all the secret boss items you get to fight Gaster, or if you got stronger you have to fight Dess. Just a random thought
Adding on to what you’ve said about this, but I think if the knight *really* wanted the roaring to happen, you’d think it would just make a fountain, keep the heroes busy by having them go close it (like moths to a flame), and just… go make another one somewhere else in the light world while they’re distracted? To me that’s sounds like one of the *easiest* ways to start the roaring if they were *really* serious about it.
Like, when Kris made their dark fountain, they had plenty of time to leave the house before they were consumed by it, so i think that would be still possible to do.
Yesss…I love Alvin so much he’s so cool I give him a little kiss. I hope he has significance. He’s so silly and even if he is not the knight he deserves more screentime I think.
I started this video going “haha funni turtle priest”
Halfway through I’m convinced
father pucci is peak ficiton, therefore father alvin being a badass world ending angel-worshipping behemoth
i would love to see a noelle vid like this. i really enjoy longer, slower analysis and theory videos like this, this one was great
i havent seen anyone really talk about noelle knight, im very intrigued as to what you would have to say about it
The Knight doesn't need to hide in the closet in the computer lab. As we saw with Kris, there is enough time to leave the room before the Dark Fountain finishes being created.
Thats just a tiny detail btw but great video
Yeah, my arguement to everyone who said "he's too obvious" was also "The game's been out for 6 years of course it's obvious when we have had 6 fucking years how many people would have picked it up if it was just a full finished start to end game."
Sans came from Undertale to deltarune... Look at the grillbys sighn
Well, knights in history were associated with the Church so it would make sense.
I suppose given that Gerson was a teacher, he might have had keys to rooms in the school. If the unused classroom was locked, Alvin would be able to get in if he had Gerson's keys. That and Ms. Boom may be a teacher at the school, who ig is his mother, and would have keys as well which he might have access to.
I think it's confirmed that Toriel and Alphys are the only teacher at the school, even if not the classroom with the fountain is called the "unused classroom" so I don't think anyone is still teaching in it.
Alvin being able to access Gerson's old keys, and therefore not needing to break into the school even if he made the fountain at night, is a good point though!
Tolkien wrote about this idea of sub creation where created beings (humans) mirror God when we create stories or ‘secondary worlds’
Also he left what was left of his writings to his son that’s why some of his works were published posthumously
Interesting parallels at the least to Gerson and the night
I just don't know Tolkien that well so I'd never heard. This is probably very intentional!
Time to leak private information about Toby Fox, so professional therapists could find out what he was dreaming about the night he had the dream that inspired Deltarune.
The less visuals the better. I listen to these while I work.
Wait, what if it actually is Rudy and hes trying to "get the families back together" so to speak. We would have to solve for him being in the hospital heh
I'm a 100% Kris Knighter, but Alvin is my second best option
I do think if he was the knight, he would have a talking sprite in the dialogue box and actually a voice.
Those can still come later when the twist is revealed. I kind of like the idea that only the Knight will have them and not Alvin himself, sort of to signify that the Knight is his true persona while "Alvin the kindly pastor" is just a mask he wears.
Alvin can’t be the knight cuz I ate him
☠️
for the record, I am a Kris Knight truther. I feel we have some decent evidence and possible circumstantial evidence for it even ASIDE from the big chapter 2 cliffhanger.
For Kris Knight theory, we don't know if King even met the Knight. Queen just guesses based on the Knight's actions, so what's to say that King didn't do the same thing? Also, we don't know if Kris looks different with and without the soul.
YOOO ALVIN KNIGHT THEORY VIDEO I MADE A WHOLE GOOGLE DOC WITH MY EVIDENCE FOR ALVIN KNIGHT!!!!
also i wanna say,, i actually really enjoy your approach to theory video making, the format of a powerpoint and just talking is less overwhelming and more laid back,,, not to say other formats are bad i enjoy watching em alot but thos this format is relaxing to watch lol
The mention of Chapter 1 only having white chess pieces gave me an idea.
White moves first in Chess, right?
There are white chess pieces attacking us because the Knight took the first turn. We, going after the Knight, are the black pieces who move in response to the actions of the white piecea.
Hey! So here is another thing that came to mind when you said that Gerson, and by extension Alvin and Ms. Boom if she's Alvin's sister, is that they wouldnt age at all after their father's death. Ms. Boom could age if she got married and had children, but Alvin? Priest in Christianity, with I'm guessing the religion is based on in Deltarune, doesn't allow priests to get married or have children. Now, keep in mind that if Gerson was a boss monster and the fact that Alvin's existence is what caused his father to die and the fact that he would have to live with that because he can't have children, wouldn't that take a toll in you?
So now let's say Ms. Boom is Alvin's mom. Now I'm getting this from UTY, but what if Ms. Boom isnt a boss monster, but a regular one, and sinces boss monster souls are like the dominant gene, he would be a boss monster. She could die out at any moment, leaving Alvin alonewith no one to talk to about this. Giving him more sadness and a push to open more Dark Foundations. If we get a chapter in with Ms. Boom dies, that could be his breaking point, if she's his mother, if sister she wouldn't die.
Okay, now let's say Ms. Boom is his mom and a boss monster. We would have the same idea as his mom not being a boss monster with her dying and the same idea as him not aging, but he would have to deal with the fact that his existence is the reason why both his parents is dead. That would take a toll on someone more so than just his dad dying and/or his mother dying because she isn't immortal or still having a living sister to talk too about this. Being the reason that both your parents are dead amd that fact you have to live for all eternity because your a priest would make you want to do some stuff that you probably shouldn't. Even if your other parent is alive, you would still want to prepare for when she dies. And, once again if she dies in a new chapter, that would take him too his breaking poin most likely.
All in all, if Gerson was a boss monster and if Alvin was the knight and doing this for/to get his father back, it would just be sad. But that's just a theory! One I came up with.
32:49 hold on bishops and knights share a value Alvin is a bishop and on thing that could give two characters the same value is being the same character
Alphys mentions that there's almost no crime in town and I doubt the school door closes at night, because even when everyone has already left and it's completely empty, we can enter whenever we want at the end of every chapter.
We don't actually know if the King and Queen talked to the Knight, seems like they just assumed what the Knight wants. Also, if you watch the Undertale anniversary stream where they play Deltarune chapter 1, in the fight against the King Toby mentions that he "believes" (he's literally the creator lol) that the King was not like that before and the fountain changed him, rather than having received orders from someone in particular, he makes it sound like the fountain turned him this way. The King thinks he's serving the wishes of the one who opened the fountain because that is what the fountain makes him feel.
None of these arguments overwhelmingly afirm that Kris is the Knight tho, just that anyone could have done it, including Alvin.
I can buy that the town has very lax security I suppose. At least for now... I wonder if Kris's actions at the end of chapter 2 might come back to bite them if buildings start being locked due to rumors of a mysterious prowler?
I do remember that comment by Toby now that you mention it. It's a bit odd of an idea at first, but it does make some solid sense. After all, it does seem that the contents of a dark world reflect the will/determination of the Lightners inside, the Cyber World is an excellent example. That place was swarming to references to Noelle's history.
It's actually some solid evidence for a possible Multiple Knights Theory haha.
7:00 well the first fountain doesn't have to be created on the day Kris and Susie descover it, if I'm right chapter 1 happens on a monday so the knight could have snuck in during the weekend to create the fountain.
I think it's more likely that Chapter 1 takes place on a Thursday, which explains why Kris and Susie were planning to stay up all night watching movies without having to go to School the next day in Chapter 2, since it's beginning of the weekend then.
Super fun content :)
Your content reminds me of jaru, just less insane and more coherent. You sound the part too. Most deltarune theorists I watch have slowly gone into psychosis so it's nice to find someone normal here and there
Hi flygon, new video LETS GOOO
Something to add to 36:45 about the direction/intention of making the game for the average player:
The ending to a game came to Toby in a dream, he wanted to make it into a game and started making stuff for that ending, then started on Undertale as a "tech demo"/a project to start with.
Citing from Wikipedia: "The idea for Deltarune came to Toby Fox in a dream he had in 2011 while he was in college. In the dream, he saw the ending to a video game and was determined to create it." Whatever game he is making, so far as the ending and the general story is concerned, is not for the fans or still in works. That was set in stone around two decades before the game will probably be finished, meaning that whatever mystery regarding the knight or the ending there is, could still be outside of the game's current assets/code. We aren't even 100% sure if the game only has 7 chapters.
A side tangent: this is why I believe that plausibility is only in theory variations that utilize multiple save files for a final conclusion or where your actions affect the world, which effects are only amplified by the ending, but the ending does not depend on them, for example: "At the end of the game, the player has to be severed from the world, effectively taking away player agency over the world and bringing about a big change, while everybody that was saved or killed by the player remains in the state that they were in. Only a couple of details and characters have to be set in stone for the ending to occur, and the game doesn't allow for tampering with it, but weird route or pacifist can railroad or derail whatever story there is between the start and the end. Your actions have consequences, and your choices matter, but not to you or your ultimate fate."
Whatever the ending is, I am 99% sure it is AN ending.
This is personally why I believe the Knight isn't the final boss, as they are more intrinsically tied to the world of Deltarune than the crazy Gaster overarching plot would need them to be. To invoke chess theory for a sec, the Knight is still a piece on the chessboard, while Gaster (or whoever will man the more existential conflict at the end of the game) is the player.
Lore of My Take On Alvin Knight Theory momentum 100
Wouldn’t the fact that Alvin used to study in the abandoned classroom mean that King would hate him more? Since he’d be one of the Lighters that “abandoned” the darkners.
You could definitely read it that way. I just think that if Alvin positioned it as him being a kid at the time and now he's returned to fix the mistakes of his father King might more readily get on board then say, a total stranger.
@@guiltyflygon I see
Gotta appreciate the turtles at the top
Also I feel like later in the game it would make more sense for the knight to be a group or two people rather than one the way the knight is acting so far
25:03
yeah it really makes me wonder what sans and papyrus' role even is in deltarune.
if they are say actually corelated with gaster and they also "randomly appeared one day" or are "new to town" than that would indicate... some kind of purpose?
but as of yet they havent had any purpose... tehy could be just deligated to reference characters for all we know 9but knowing Toby Fox, thatd be way too boring)
I disagree with the idea that Toby isn’t making this for us insane theorists. Everything about the secret bosses, Gaster, and the purposeful secrets in the files shows that he really does intend for us to dig our teeth into this like a hyena
Okay, maybe a better way to phrase it is: "Toby isn't making the game exclusively for us insane theorists." Like, he's clearly giving us something to chew on, but the main story so far has been pretty easy to follow.
The knight didn't put the king in power what was said is "strange knight appeared and three king were locked away and the king remaining put him and his strange son into power" It's never said it was the knight who did this
yea, the darkners are all just objects, and the kings specifically are literally just playing cards, so it's possible that the knight just accidentally dropped the cards somewhere and the spade king was left behind
@@Tulip_bipI doubt that because it was never told to us but even if it was an accident we can't derive the knight's intentions if so if i accidently drop an egg i didn't i want to drop an egg
23:49
Deltarune is a sequel to Undertale, he only doesn't call it a sequel because it's a different world but for all intents and purposes it's a sequel.
Semantically maybe, but... If the plots were going to be continuous why not just call the game Undertale 2? The name recognition would be way worth it.
Why even go through the hassle to make the game an alternate universe if the characters we're already familiar with are going to be the ones that drive the plot?
I'm not saying it's impossible for an Undertale character to be the Knight, it's just far more likely it's a new character who is more grounded in the Deltarune universe.
Why did Alvin open the door from the unused classroom to the supply.closet, then? And why didn't he see that there was a dark world inside?
You'll have to remind me what I said in the video since it's been a while lol. I know my answer today, but it might contradict what I said back then haha.
what if pizza pants is going to high school? and the door we cant use is the door to high school?
I'm pretty sure it's been confirmed that Alphys is the high school level teacher in town, but that might just be me assuming. Even so, we know Pizzapants was in the same class as Asriel, and he's attending college, so unless Pizzapants got held back he should be graduated at the moment.
My personal theory is that Alphys is the knight
wait, if I'm determined enough and i get a "blade" (i have kitchen knifes and a crapy knock off katana), could i make a dark fountain?
Good luck getting determined enough. Let me know if you get the ability to re-write reality lol.
@@guiltyflygon i'll try my best, it maybe be hard BUT I'M HA-
I’m seeing mostly Kris Knight, Alvin Knight, but where is Papyrus? Imo it would be funny if he was, and it could work story wise. We haven’t seen him, maybe this is why.
I’LL GET YOU CRAZY KIDS
I wouldn't like Alvin as the Knight, nor do I think he will be, but anyone who uses the "he doesn't have a portrait sprite" argument, like... have you not MET the secret bosses, whom are arguably some of the most interesting parts of Deltarune?... It does worry me though, how at the end of both chapters, we've had a reference or nod to the Boom family. I'm more of a fan of "Gerson's hammer was brought to life with his dust on it" than Alvin being the Knight. I am tired of the "religious man is actually le evil" trope.
I think it's entirely possible that the Knight is a Darkner who is capable of leaving Dark Worlds entirely. The Knight is another "Dark World boss" like King and Queen, but unlike them, they directly serve Gaster. I keep thinking about what Susie says at the end of Chapter 2 with wanting to bring Lancer and Ralsei to the Light World, and that's a very interesting desire to me.
We see that Darkners are capable of reparing warp doors in Chapter 1, Sans has his own warp door somehow, and Sans also has a broken machine (that neither he nor Alphys can fix, according to Toby (implying Gaster invented it, as "his brilliance could not be replaced")) in his workshop that looks oddly door-shaped... and we know that the Knight has some sort of door as well, given Toby's comment during the Chapter 1 livestream.
What if Gaster invented a transdimensional warp door that allows the Knight to pop in anywhere, create a fountain, and then leave?... And this Knight is from some other Dark World that's currently active, just like Castle Town?...
To be fair the evil God/religion is an RPG trope, and Undertale/Deltarune basically always subvert RPG tropes, which is why I think Alvin Knight would be focused moreso on the loss of his father than like, religious extremism.
A Darker Knight would be interesting, though of course you then have to solve for how they can wield Determination to make the fountains.
i don't think the chess theory is true, mostly because the chess theming comes specifically from chapter 1, and queen is really clearly directly related to king. i don't see how there could be bosses themed around pawns, bishops and rooks when we already have enemies from chapter 1 who are literally those chess pieces. chapter 1 also has a bunch of chess theming everywhere, so having the main theme of the game also be that would be a little weird to me
I hate Alvin knight with a passion but I’ll watch this video for you guiltyflygon 😔
How do you hate him he has like 7 total lines in game 😭😭😭
@@toasty_mann I have nothing against Alvin, he seems chill. I’m just not a fan of Alvin knight.
@@Flynnisthenameok but image his giant badass Hammer
@@ChadRepson I won’t lie that’s pretty cool
I don’t have anything against the idea I just think narratively it’s boring and doesn’t fill as many gaps as other candidates
The knight is the knife and there is to much evidence for it to be as thoroughly ignored as it is.
-the knight is always referred to as an "IT" when in the light world and a "THEY" when in the dark world. I.E. a darkner
-The term "long hand" is a term for a knife's handle (a knife's handle is elongated past the point where a normal hand would fall on it to keep the center of mass under the place where you should hold it and is consequently called "the long hand")
-Knives are supposed to be tools (like darkners are supposed to be tools for lightners according to Ralsei) but can be used as weapons to fight (like darkners should fight lightners according to spade king who claims to have been inspired by the knight)
-all the evidence/theories pointing to Kris Knight have the hole of kris not being able be both the hero and the knight, but if "the knight" is the darkner who happened to be used to open the fountain instead of Kris themselves, the theory's holes are closed, without contradicting any evidence supporting those theories, this also works for all the Kris-adjacent knight variants, like the "third entity" theory or the "puppet Kris" theory or any theories for the other lightner allies.
-when the queen tells the story of the knight, the image she shares is focused on THE KNIFE and not the person holding it. If she's telling the story of the knight obviously she's gonna focus the image on the knight.
Kinda meta evidence:
-the THEMES, the theme of control, and influence and puppets and freedom work so much better if the major villains is a LITERAL TOOL
-most of the other theories (Alvin included) feel more like attaching a mismatched plot thread for character development later. I.E. helping Alvin get over his dad in the church level, the way you convinced Noelle to open up a bit more in the cyber world.
I think you may have actually convinced me... Do you mind if I make a video on this topic later?
@@guiltyflygon sure do it
oh wow, this is really interesting... especially since other items kris takes into the dark world get transformed into something, like their pencil turns into a sword, but we don't see anything relating to their huge kitchen knife that they carry around everywhere. it would also explain why the knight appears everywhere, it's not because they're some strange person who keeps sneaking around, it's literally in kris's pocket for the entire game..
so Alvin’s got like daddy issues , cool
Amazing video!
16:48
oh COME ON MAN tehre was an entirely different corelation you couldve made! in reguards to priests and congregational churches..
that being -of course- say... "alterior motives"?
☠️
What about Ms. Boom? Or the Major? Or even Dess?
I put a poll recently for who people wanted to see me talk about next and the Mayor won so... soon!
@@guiltyflygon Wonderful
Have you seen JaruJaruJ's video on his version of the knight? I think it answers/gives a new perspective on the story. I never believed in the Kris knight theory for 2 reasons, and he covered both of them (1 - why would Toby show the villain of the game blatantly doing it in the 2nd chapter, and 2 - Queen says that the Knight made the fountain *today* not last night. So Kris would have no time to make it).
The video is a bit long, but I think it's worth it, as he goes into EXTREME depth into every characater in it, as well as Alvin, so as his other videos! Especially his Spamton Analysis video.
I did watch Jaru's video, but that was when it came out so that was a WHILE ago lol. All I really remember is freaking out about how much Rouxls Knight makes sense and being frustrated that he'd discount certain candidates based on the number of fingers on Queen's crude representation of the Knight's hand.
The reasons you bring up are pretty good though! But to play devil's advocate there's still ways to interpret it that works I think. Queen is a computer after all, so she'd likely view "today" as anytime from 12:00AM to 11:59PM on a certain date, meaning if it was after midnight it could still have been "today". As for why Toby would show the Knight so early, who knows? I think there's some convincing evidence that the Knight isn't the final boss of Deltarune, so maybe Toby is trying to be different instead of creating another Asgore situation where the main threat for most of the game is unseen.
Obviously I think that Kris probably isn't the Knight but, it's worth thinking through every possibility.
@@guiltyflygon I agree that the Knight won't be the final boss, and the candidates being voted off solely because of the drawing is a bit harsh.
A few more issues to the Kris being the Knight theory, is if they are, and they did indeed make the fountain at 12 : 00 or later, then how did nobody notice the fountain in the computer lab before Kris entered it in Chapter 2? Kris leaves *after class* meaning that the fountain would have to be up for a long time, and nobody would notice it? Ralsei also doesn't notice that this new dark world has opened up until after you leave for the library, and then he hurried over, which implies that they made the fountain right then, but Kris was with us when this was happening, which would be downright impossible for them to make it.
And, if Kris was the knight, how would the Spade King, Seam, Jevil, and the Queen not know that you're the knight? Seam talks about the knight directly locking the kings up and putting the Spade King in power, the Spade King himself worships the knight, Jevil has clearly forbidden knowledge about the knight, and Queen has face-reading tech, and she has to have met the knight, because she doesn't know what the Roaring is, yet she calls the Knight the 'Roaring Knight', as well as having a *long hand* and Kris does not have long hands, hinted at by Kris not being able to reach the controls on the arcade cabinet. So they know what they look like, and have talked to them. She also has a video of the knight making a fountain.
I don't think it's COMPLETELY impossible... But I think it's unlikely, but who knows what Toby has in store for us!
1) Because you don't know the Why of Kris doing it. That is still a Mystery. And it draws attention to the Player/Player Character dynamic, as well a Freedom vs. Control.
2) A Day can be 24 hours and that is how a Computer would think.
@@StrayBulletXIII If Kris is the Knight, Kris made Ralsei. He is an extension of the Knight's Will. Therefore, If Kris wants Ralsei to lie, he will lie. And the Dark Fountain rooms just.. look like a Dark Room.
About the Darkners not know the Knight directly, Kris would only have to stage the Rooms ahead of time, and then, imbue their Will into the Darkness of the Fountain. Basically, The Knight imagined them that way, so they are that way. But the Darkners never visually see them. It is just The Knight's Will place inside the objects. The Knight imagined they should know the stuff you mentioned, so they know the stuff you mentioned.
And the Video creating the Cyber World Fountain doesn't show the Knight's face.
37:05 i don't believe this argument is fully valid cause Toby knows us thats why theres phrases on the code and stuff
I used to be of the same mind but there are still people out there playing Deltarune who don't know who Gaster is so... I dunno lol.
I noticed a blatant error
You put a dog in the title slide
?
In the bottom right corner of the title slide, that's a dog
i still think kris is the knight
also nobody said that the knight (kris) was in the first dark world all that seam said was quote a strange knight appeared... And three of the kings were locked away.
The remaining king(king?) put him (the kinght) and his strange son(lancer) into power.
and toby said that the dark fountain corrupter king not the knight(kris)
cool vid
alvin knight is my second bet
What about the king’s throne room, which has lots of slashes? I guess they can be from the three kings fighting King, but King uses a
Chain, although it also looks like a spade, or a shovel. Not exactly a slicing weapon. Also, why would the King destroy his own throne room? I guess it could be from the other kings, but they don’t seem very strong, and we don’t know what weapons they use, if any.
the quote is very interesting when examined from this perspective, actually (i assume you mean the events that happen in Ch1 instead of before them)
@@waluigiisthebest2802 king also has just regular spades plus all three kings where locked up in the same cage where they should still have magic but they never escape
plus it parable that the throne room was all four of themes throne room and i don't think king cares or maybe the dark fountain made him stronger
you said you don't think Alvin knows about the Roaring, but i dont think you explained then why he calls himself "the Roaring Knight"
The first person to call the Knight the "Roaring Knight" is Queen in CH2, and then afterward Susie parrots it at the CH2 fountain sealing. Queen doesn't know what the Roaring even is when she calls the Knight the Roaring Knight, so we have no idea where she got that name from. We know Queen never actually met the Knight, just saw them from afar, so it's within reason she made the name up or based it off of some facet of Darkner lore that the Knight may not be aware of. As she later says, "I'm Just A Computer LMAO I Don't Know Everything. I Was Just Guessing Based Off The Knight's Actions"
If you want to go in another direction, maybe Ralsei made up the Roaring as a way to convince Queen to stop her quest for world domination peacefully, and THAT's why the Roaring suddenly becomes a big deal moments after we hear "Roaring Knight" for the first time.
Basically what I'm saying is that I'm personally confident the Knight isn't trying to cause the Roaring based on their actions, and that being the case, the name "Roaring Knight" must be a title more than a job description. In a similar vein to "Prince from the Dark" for Ralsei in the prophecy. The Knight may be prophesized to cause the Roaring, but that doesn't mean that's their main goal.
I love sleeping to deltarune theorist 💤
Ok, so I still need to watch the entire video, but whenever someone brings Alvin being the Knight, I unironically joke like "Wait until he is revealed to be the Praying Bishop". Either I just don't understand who bishops are, or people don't take into consideration that other chess pieces may also become characters, or, rather, already are (Asgore being the king, Noelle's mother being the queen... Which is already a thing, so maybe Toriel idk... But yeah, thinking about it, those seem to be dark world bosses at the time)
It is interesting that the light world also has parallels in Chess Theory, though that could go to explain how Alvin can be a bishop and a knight all at once. He's the white bishop, but also the black knight.
wouldn't he be a paladin
I suppose, but I don't think I'd blame anyone for seeing a paladin and calling it a knight 😅
what is a paladin if not a big knight
I think that one flaw not mentioned in the video is that Alvin being the Knight is just... narratively unsatisfying. The Knight is incredibly important, like, the most important character minus the Kris, Susie, Ralsei, and Noelle, so this random, new character who has nothing special about him and is completely indistinguishable from every other filler NPC, other than sprite and dialogue, is just unsatisfying as a twist. A far more interesting twist would be having a known character be the Knight, whether that be Kris, Susie, Noelle, hell even Ralsei. Papyrus, Asgore, etc.
tbh, I think Toby's actually in a really tough spot since I can't see any current candidate for the Knight (other than maybe Kris and Rouxls (I'm not even joking; it would so hilarious)) being completely satisfying, since they either sum up to not making sense, or just being unsatisfying. Out of every mystery, I think the Knight and Dess are probably the spiciest ones Toby's gonna have to deal with.
edit: Also, side note, the rules card is simultaneously the most important card, and the least important, since it is impossible to play the game without first knowing the rules. So Rouxls is simultaneously the most powerful Darkner, and the least powerful, at least going off of the logic that the overworld values apply to Darkners.
You could say the same thing about Asgore in Undertale (as in he's basically a non-character until he's revealed at the very end) and I think that twist works out pretty well.
Honestly I think the biggest thing that's going to make the Knight interesting whoever they are is what their motives are, as (at least in my opinion) it doesn't seem to actually be wanting to cause the Roaring.
Rouxls Knight would be very funny though 😂
@@guiltyflygon That's true, but they are different types of twists. Alvin is a side character going to antagonist, while Asgore is a major character built up as a villain, but is actually just a really conflicted guy.
I agree though, that I don't really care who the Knight actually is. It's definitely their motives that's interesting. My theory is that the Knight is leading Kris somewhere. We know that Kris is the only one who can seal the fountains, cause of the Soul, and we know that each character levels up from sealing a fountain (maybe?), so maybe the Knight is intentionally making Kris stronger. Maybe to seal the Castle Town fountain? Or maybe the Knight can see the future and is trying to prevent something by making Kris go through these areas. I do 100% think that the Knight and Kris are tied though.
What I haven't seen anyone mention though, is that the Prophecy Ralsei spoke of has no mention of the Knight. Almost like the Knight isn't part of the prophecy. Just an interesting detail.