Alvin Plantinga - Can a Person Be a Soul?
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Is a soul required to make a person? If there is no soul, is there no person? Almost all scientists and most philosophers find no need for a soul. Certainly, souls are not known to science. What arguments support a soul? Revelations of religions? But then souls are a matter of faith. Any philosophical theories?
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Alvin Carl Plantinga is an American analytic philosopher, the John A. O'Brien Professor of Philosophy Emeritus at the University of Notre Dame and the inaugural holder of the Jellema Chair in Philosophy at Calvin College.
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The word "soul" is superfluous / unnecessary. A physical body, a brain, and a consciousness make up the entirety of a "person." Each person is an information-collecting, information-processing, and information-disseminating device that operates as a single unit. Currently there are over 8 billion human "units" processing information on planet Earth along with over ten quintillion less-complex "units" (animals/insects) that are all doing the same.
There is no "USB drive" (soul) that you can remove and claim that it is separate from the human body. Everything about you is integral. Sure, you can lose your body and your mind, ... but the information you produce over the course of your lifetime never goes away, ... _nor do you!_
_"What happens in existence stays in existence."_
Rambling gibberish.
It made some sense to me. 😊
What's information? Subjective experience you and I have might be a force like dark energy that leads to expansion of information similar to the expansion of space.
Why doesn't he interview the thousands of people who had near death experiences..If anyone knows it would be them.
Every living creature has soul, that's what's making them alive. Body and soul are independent to each other
I have the same feeling. I Had many out of body experiences, I reported each one describing all phases. Often, during those experiences I met my parents and few other people passed away. These when I was 20-30. Now am 68, trying to connect consciousness and quantum field. If we wear an avatar, (our body), we’ll see… or maybe not, so lets be positive 😊
I think body and soul are interdependent. A soul cannot exists without a body and a body is not alive without a soul.
This interview is more than 9 years old.. and still interesting.
Not to me. I give theists a listen, but they never produce a convincing argument. So for each theist I listen to, it brings me Closer to Truth...theists believe in fairy tales.
How do you know
@@commentator1338 Logic and scientific method, not wishful thinking and imagination. We see in nature, complex behaviors arising from the less complex behaviors of its constiuents. Extrapolating all the way back, it suggests that at the lowest level, there is something minimally complex. That is what the evidence suggests. Is God a simpleton?
Branzely liar. After 9 yeas he continues as bizzare challatan. Philosophy serious questions like souls or mortal are possible though honest mind. Guys is ignorant and stupidy he not proof his speculation seriously
@@commentator1338 there are other parts from the same interview older than 9 year in the same channel.
Live a life that makes the quality of life better in any way and to lessen the suffering in this world, may it be tiny, large, or in between.
Seconds turn to minutes. Minutes to hours. Hours to days. Days to years.
Every second that passes matters.
Every second, you are either getting ahead or falling behind. Do not waste a second.
Anymore, I am finding the occasional comment more interesting than the videos.
Yeah, CTT cators to the laymen and the materialists. It's more of a fiasco revolving door than a set of spiraling stairs towards truth and for growth.
Robert is awesome however.
I like this because I am open to hearing all beliefs.
Then please read The New Revelation of The Lord Jesus Christ
@@eugene-bright Does Jesus want people to be free so they can believe whatever they want to believe ? Or does he want to force his views upon them ?
@@Jarell1661 He/She wants us to know the truth (aletheia) and be saved
@@Jarell1661 He/She warns
ruclips.net/video/rS3QSDXh9Ic/видео.html
All beliefs are prisons for the mind.
Thanks for the Great discussion and enlightening. A boy, 3 year's old fully aware of himself, but very limited before his physical existence. Now, same person 70 years later definitely aware of himself all through his life, going through wars, love, lasting or ever changing, up and downs throughout the careers, definitely packed in his self awareness so much more. So, if we equates consciousness with soul, then consciousness grows with the life - time of the physical body （ material object）when the physical object expired, sadly goes everything. I hope a stronger argument would safe the day for consciousness.
Stay safe and healthy for soul sake.
Thanks again for the effort and keep up the good work.
From Hker worldwide
My question is this: If the soul is immortal, why do we have a body in the first place? A body doesn't seem necessary if you have an immortal soul. It makes no sense.
I think one possible solution is to argue from idealism (i.e. the body is just an illusion necessary to prepare ourselves for the next life)
@Brown Green We have a body to learn and experience things we can't in a spirit state.
I question the authenticity of your question. You're not really wanting to enquire it seems.
Life here is death; death had here is life.
The soul sacrificed itself so the body could live; the body is the tomb, is death, and is what allows for the Resurrection of Soul to Spirit to occur -- the rebirth.
A seed falls and dies to the earth, and in the soil, the darkness, rebirth is had and grows out from the darkness reaching the surface touching light.
God planted Light seeds here, to grow in the Spirit.
This place is the underworld -- Amenta, shoel, hades, hell.
This renewal, rebirth, Soul Knows Spirit more truly and grows in and towards. You experience much: Goodness from darkness, kindness from strife, joy from misery. The ability to exercise Willpower and be: charitable or greedy, selfless or narcissistic, Spiritual or materialistic.
The Soul that's resurrected in Christ, the world is made new.
All the beauty is evident, permeated throughout, acknowledging growth towards light.
An opportunity arises, the many trials -- protect nature, mind, peace or choose to forsake by your own negligence and ignorance.
Rely on your own understanding, or enquire and grow in knowledge reaping Wisdom.
Deny God because your science is inferior or acknowledge God and contemplate on All.
Appreciate all life.
Whether it's a clump of clay or gold, changes nothing as your sense of self or joy is not directed by outside objects.
Paul: what I concienced of as an evil was actually a good.
I think your distinguishing the soul and the body too much. I think it’s better to say that the human person finds her complete expression through a body as opposed to mere spirit. Emphasis of this fact can be seen in the Christian idea of bodily resurrection. In a more philosophical context, others have argued that, although the soul can exist without the body, it invariably loses its ability to perform certain functions due to its natural dependence on the body.
Here is an analogy: software needs hardware to run, but even if all the hardware in the world powers off, software, though inert, still exists.
Pretty sure souls, satan, and hell are all christian fan fiction not from the Bible. Just separate ideas made up later, not “revealed” by god.
Good vs evil is God vs Devil. The positive aspect and negative, or light vs dark.
It's mythology. There's a deeper meaning.
Seeing comments like your's is great bevausemit shows how lousy education today is and CTT.
You really don't know anything do you?
Person and soul are two separate
Obviously, every living being is a Soul, that is what Soul means.
And every Soul is a gazook because that's what gazook means. (This sentence makes as much sense as yours)
@@SurrealMcCoy ok, as long gazook means living being ... living matter.
Lord Krishna says our existence consist of 3 levels 1.Gross body 2.Subtle body i.e. mind , intellect and ego 3.Soul .Now we are soul at our core and part , parcel of God who is supersoul.
I tend to agree with you, but we need to be careful. Everyone means slightly differently from what the soul is. In the Hindu system, the soul is made of the subtle elements, under the “rules” of Maya, with three gunas providing inclinations, and an immutable record of Karma answering for that souls destiny. The Hindu souls is the substratum of experience (bhog saadhan), but it is NOT a free agent- the soul doesn’t have a free will. The free will resides in the part that ends when we die, the chitchhaya, the place where mind is illumined by the consciousness.
@@hershchat No I think your idea about soul is not correct because obviously soul has free will but tiny and little that's why are Bramhyan but God is Parabramhyan or preciously say at the context of quality we are same i.e. Sat , Chit and Ananda but at the context of quantity we are too little.
@@chayanbosu3293 aaah. I see we are saying the same with different words. So, Atma is satchidanand. The atma has no free will. Ishvar- (satchidanand + Prakriti)- is the creator of the universe. I am not sure if Ishvar can be said to have will, since He is outside of time and causation. As Krishna says, “mayaivaite nihatah purvam eva”- by me only have they been slain already (poorvam) as if (eva).
The poorvam eva , IMHO, is the clue that He is talking of timelessness and non-agency.
What do you think?
God is the soul.
Jesus ( Son of God) said the two great commandments are:
1. Love God with all you mind, heart & SOUL.
2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Simple. Perfection. The Way truth & the Life. No one comes to the Father but through His Son.
Death, decay and purification is so grim that it's only natural that we cope with it through the notion of an afterlife.
The heart has its reasons, of which reason knows nought.
In the dictionary soul is defined as " spiritual and immortal part of a human being " so the word soul is a term used to signify " essence " and what we are in essence are entities that are knowers and enjoyers. I exist, and to know that you exist you have to be conscious that you exist. It is this knowing that you " be " or " am " that makes you an entity. The statement " I am this body " translates to " I am conscious of this body " so knowledge is the property of a conscious self not a insentient body.
So it is personal awareness that makes you a person not your body. What makes the conscious self spiritual? Answer: The material experience is of three objective states ( wakefulness, dream, and deep sleep ) that are of a mind-body connection and by being the observer of these states that come in succession makes the self an " eternal in the now " existence that contrast the ever changing material drama that it observes thus it experiences time objectively not subjectively within itself.
Since change and deterioration is not of it's nature it transcends anything that time dwindles over time. So the self transcends body, mind, and intelligence. So in truth there is a duality between body and soul and it is "self" that is the cause of there being a duality thus it is the essence ( soul )
Quite an interesting idea well articulated. It makes sense.
Thanks for taking time to articulate.
From Hker worldwide
What soul? What kind of rational discussion can you have when you assume the existence of the very thing you are discussing - unless you make it clear, right up front, that it's all hypothetical?
If there is a soul, it interacts with us very strongly, and yet Quantum Field Theory tells us with exceptional confidence that there are no god, devil, soul or ghost fields, forces or particles interacting with the things we are made of.
Without soul theism Will fall apart
A soul is something people invent up to help them cope with their mortality and oblivion.
How do you know that?
@@EggtherSong That's what the evidence tells me.
No, the Spiritual people are the most strongest of all, they already know they died.
Your baloney here is your own false notion of a belief to try and understand them.
@@S3RAVA3LM There is a Nobel prize waiting and a place in history for the person that proves the existence of a soul or spirit.
Until then, spirituality belongs in the same superstitious trash can as homeopathy, astrology, healing crystals, voodoo, witchcraft and most religious dogma.
subjective experience (a modern term for the soul) is not something we made up. We all have it since the age of 3 or so. Does it cease to exist when the body goes back to earth? Who knows?
here is an analogy: body is like hardware. the mind (or consciousness or soul) is like software. Software needs hardware to run, but, even though all hardware is bound to fail eventually, software, just like math, or logic, is eternal.
In Christianity, the afterlife entails resurrection from the dead. A soul represents a living body. One must question the notion that souls inherently exist eternally. Scripture does not support this, and evidence is lacking. The Christian doctrine emphasizes resurrection as our sole hope for life after death.
there's undoubtedly a distinction between living and inert structures and throughout history many great thinkers have tried to conceptualize that difference in one way or another... in our present, technological advancements are providing better ways to probe this mystery with either creation of an artificial life form or preservation of a living body... success in either one of these directions will be a major step forward in identifying that difference...
Would an Almighty God create a Universe where
only the great thinkers or scholars can discover & understand His Creation ... or ... everybody( primitive or educated) can determine the true origin of the Universe & Life?
Man has always known the origin of rules & Laws ... and ... anything that has clear FUNCTION, design, form & purpose.
Everything in the Universe has clear & obvious ... function, design, form & purpose.
Religion is a natural phenomena, because everything in the Universe is an abstract or physical FUNCTION which only an intelligence ( like Man) can make.
God made if obvious for all to see, that He created the Universe ... for Man. And clearly Man has broken God's Laws .. by doing evil ... and a Just God must punish anybody who breaks the Law... otherwise there will be chaos & disorder.
@@abelincoln8885 how can I know such answers Abe... I respect you as a believer and I respect the hard work of many others that don't share the same thoughts but strive to make our world more harmonious by healing rather than causing wounds to others...
@@r2c3 Again. God made it easy ... for anybody to figure this out. You don't need to be a great thinker or scholar to make any sense of this It is really this simple.
You must complete your cycle cause your energy is sacred. You cant escape reincarnation till you complete your test of internal power of spiritual endearment
If a Person describes a behavioral mystery defined by a Name, then the Soul is a House for the Name. It is a complexity of a behavior assigned to a proper place of it's appearing. Person is from Latin "Persona" meaning a "Mask" and explaining that an Actor on a stage assumes the identity given to the actor by the Divine Playwright, and so the actor may be a different sort of person on other terms, but on assignment, under force of direction , an actor on a stage must give a faithful good attempt to fulfill a script written. So Jesus said he came to fulfill what was written of him. Person is a character in a story, and if the Story Teller is a man , a "Human Being" then his behavior as a Soul changes according to the performing arts, he must be all and do all, though he is one man, he must speak about God, speak as God and then speak for all the People to make his story an oration that brings applause by the audience. It presents good reason to assert the Holy Trinity as THREE PERSONS but the behavior arises out of a ONE BEING. 3=1
Thank you for uploading this. I’ve wanted to hear a brief summary like this from Dr Alvin P
Sorry man but guys are speak about souls and mortal without honestly hipotesy. Pseud Science and philosophy. Thanks you.
@@maxwellsimoes238 there is a long history of mystics, poets, and artists from every culture who understand this reality is far more than just physical. Our imagination is far more important than most people give credit 😉
Political society that makes choices for other people does not implement a person's choice for God and heaven?
I read you 22 years ago as a truth presenter. Having grown so much in my own sense of truth, I find you still selling out just to get the Christian Right backslaps. No way I will ride your bus again. I am 77 and do not ever want to step over that fine line just to get someone's approval. You sold out.
Don't agree with his universalism thoughts. Because if someone made their mind up that God is not who they want in their life or a part of their life then life with God is absent forever.
What if there are a limited number of souls available? what if only some have a soul.
Everybody has "the spark" of True Self (not "soul"). The difference between those "with souls" and those without is that most humans decide not to develop it (the True Self).
@@EggtherSong Socrates said similarly that the unexamined life is not worth living.
In life body and soul - the time after life is a potential body and a potential soul.
*we all are souls, it’s these bodies that are very temporary. e = mc2. And reincarnation has been documented for at least 4 thousand years. And everyone remembers at least subconsciously but many consciously too.*
You should be joking right !!!!
I was once a great spirtual leader who taught that all this reincarnation stuff was nonsense. Apparently. nobody listened to me, 😕.
Not memories but demonic manipulations.
God created Man with a body & soul. Jesus (Son of God) told us nearly 2000 years ago that the MIND of Man is ... both body & soul.
The body of man is corrupted with evil ... and is our nature.
We all start off innocent & good ... but as time goes by ... the body & the soul will think & do evil. Even you you continuously feed you body & soul with good things ... you will still think & do evil, at some point in time.
There is no reincarnation. This is a fabrication by demonic forces ... that don't want you to believe in Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior. There are no Holy Spirit filled Christians with "memories" of previous lives. We know how to handle demonic possession or interference .. and who has the real power to silence them.
Why don't you look it up in a Strong's Concordance and see for yourself.
How can you provide an answer to this question when you dont even know what a soul is?
The ever evolving immortal soul of a human being has the potential to integrate it self with the Cosmos. But we all must start out somewhere to be 'Closer To Truth'
Over 50,000 yrs and over 300,000 gods later, and we are no closer to the truth.
@Jesus Bermudez
Amaze me with your truth.
@Jesus Bermudez
I guess it was an off broadway production ?😁
@Jesus Bermudez
Well, I hope you achieve your dream of becoming bird food. Which is very pagan. But, that doesn't validate your belief in that's what your god meant you to do.
And you have no idea what the day to day life of the man called Jesus was even like.
Well, maybe they are inclined to believe that but it is more of family and culture practices that taught them such thing in childhood especially the concept of hell and punishment and suffering if they sinned. Children brainwashed idea and it is very powerful and last longer in the psychic.
Oh dear. The existence of energy, awareness, is a matter of physics (or metaphysics) not philosophy. Scientists are not prohibited from experiencing energy, awareness, their soul... but perhaps in order to keep their jobs, they prefer not to speak openly. Suffice it to say that their ignorance is a hindrance to human progress and to scientific progress, but not fortunately to individual progress. Scientists are often the last to understand reality, but sadly they then tend to get a bit arrogant and claim that now that "they've" discovered it, it's allowed to be true. Hubris. And I say all that as a mathematician, an analyst, but not someone as closed-minded as 'official' scientists it seems.
If we can accept the presence of universal consciousness--divine conscious energy,I can't understand why we reject the existence of . soul . Soul is identical to universal consciousness but with limited potential .Rebirth. Near death experiences are some factors we have to consider before we reject its existence.
Humans including the body is called souls according to the Bible
Soul was there beginning of the Universe.they we're not created.
We need a god's hope to live.
Brother ask this question about Afterlife from a Muslim like Sheikh Uthman from One Message Foundation RUclips channel
I'm compelled to say that I find this just as uninteresting as any other baseless surmise. Mr. Plantinga seems to be starting with a conclusion and making up "I can imagine"s to support it, despite the glaring lack of evidence.
It seems to me that the entirety of our human consciousness builds a perception of reality to which we are central, and the concept of our own personal nonexistence is accordingly unimaginable to us. Thus, I believe, arises the concept of some non-corporeal part of ourselves which survives our obvious and inevitable death and rotting away in the ground.
I'm no philosopher or scientist, yet I find this common inability to appreciate and accept the temporary nature of our existence to be nothing if not sad.
“ death is only the beginning “
And those are just words :D
Without the word "soul," there couldn't be any religion. All stories are based on what the soul is thinking, and what the soul is doing, and where the soul came from, and where the soul is going after death of the physical body. Fortunes have been made by theologians who taught that the soul is a gift from God, and that women must never have abortions, because abortions offend God's gift to humanity. Evolution of the soul is a huge seller in religion. It means that your soul is ever upgrading and will hopefully soon make the grade of God's "entire" approval of enlightenment and salvation … or … that in the afterlife something horrible could happen to your soul. If you remove the word "soul" from religion, you will not have anything but ground zero.
subjective awareness of conscious observation in quantum fields is transferred to human minds through mathematical probability?
What is your evidence for a soul other than wishful thinking. Ditto with everything else alvin said
Can a person not be a soul, even to an atheist?
veste,,kaj govorite,da biblja ni resnicna?? berite bibljo in boste vedeli vse..kaj pa 10 bozjih zapovedi??? pa jaz se jih drzim..ne vsem..amapk priporocam vsem ljudem..
Soul, Self, Consciousness are all identical.
Pure consciousness is God.
But, Mind plays tricks with us, and makes us identify with Body. If we practice total detachment from body, with help of Yoga, we get into Oneness state or Nirvana. To realise that we are eternal consciousness
I think therfore I am.
Take away the word SOUL ..it has too many connotations of religion which I loathe..and replace with the word SOUL with energy or consciousness..I believe a person is energy and has non local consciousness.
Maybe there is no soul to begin with?
Who is it that believes?
Afterlife is the changes you leave in this world. On average it has been getting better with more good being left behind to this physical world.
Absurd vídeo out anti honest evidence about after Life. Without Science guys are monopilazed his ignorant about serious question.
You know it’s interesting when you say “afterlife” . It’s interesting how “life “ is defined. Whether by miscarriage, abortion, or still birth- millions of people have actually died before they were even born. So therefore the afterlife and the before life are on the same plane, And the thoughts of infant still in the womb may be after life -like . So detangling the concept of material life and life itself - both memories and dreams make up the mechanics of an abstract life that is without flesh and bone. When I experience thinking about my dead mother, that is the experience of an afterlife that is not in this dimension. It’s a life experience without materialism. Also feelings are much closer to the truth than words. Language is built to be temporary so it doesn’t describe much. you feel you will always be because deep down,because you know you always be
Guys arent show up any evidence that after Life or souls and mortal are possible. Without honest evidence guys are so cinism challatan.
@@maxwellsimoes238 I believe man has the inherent ability to fulfill/supersede all of his concepts. So therefore if we are aware of death, then by that very act death is subordinated to our awareness . Or in other words, awareness survive death, Most likely in the same way awareness survives birth
@@MrSanford65 You are starting on the wrong foot here and arguing against your own wrong construct. Humans are not souls. Afterlife is the temporary state of the consciousness (I call it True Self) after the death of the physical body.
Nope. All thoughts & feelings are natural phenomena of living breathing human being .. composed of matter & energy ... in the 4 dimensions of our Universe.
Again. Man & Animals are physical entities with a physical mind(brain) and a consciousness of the physical environment. But Man has the Mind of an intelligence .. which is UNNATURAL & nonphysical.
God created Man ... with a body & soul ... and Jesus( Son of God) told us nearly 2000 years ago that the MIND of Man is body & soul. This is why Jesus could no have a corrupted human body ... and why every single one of us ... start life with an innocent & good nature ... but will freely choose to think & do evil. The body of Man ... is our Nature. Even if we feed our body & mind with only good things ... we will still think & do evil.
We are are only conscious of the unnatural & non-physical existence ... when the body & brain dies. And this "spirit" realm has no time, so your soul goes straight to Judgement day in the future via Heaven with Jesus ... during Jesus ruling the Earth for 1000 years. Again. There is no time... in Heaven .. so when you join Jesus in Heaven, that is in the future after Jesus had reigned for 1000 years.
Likewise, non believers go straight to judgement day which is after the 1000 year reign of Jesus.
And Hell was created to punish Demons forever. The Human soul ll be destroyed in Hell as God made it clear the Man will die ... if he eats from the tree of knowledge.
death is final
There is only ONE that makes us a living person and that ONE is much like an AI system but of course much much better because that ONE not only can speak, but can see, hear, smell, taste, feel emotions and senses of touch. However, without a created mind processing information in the form of vibrations, that ONE would not be able to experience visible images even that that ONE was the first born of this Creation/Simulation. Created minds wouldn't exist without the ONE and neither would any visible images since the created mind needs to process information before those images can be observed by the ONE.
There is only one soul with multiple personalities. - Wald Wassermann, Physicist
Almost the same to our identities we must keep for a long time as long as there's still have a considerable commitment on existence, depends on your wishes if you prefer to change or what might you wanted to correct. God could be the favorable cause to be the only choice, the closest point to be dependable.
Well, seeing around, Hell is here, the commands we received weren't respected and we pay taxes for being hypocrite with ourselves. If we can't put the finger on realities we live every day, could we really know about soul and spiritual existence??? Nope, no really.
This message seems to be misguided and it concerns me.
If you want to recognise the misleading content, test his words against John 14:6, Jeremiah 17:9, Matthew 10:28, Matthew 16:26, Luke 16:19-31, John 12:48, 1 John 2:23-26, Rev 16:9, Rev 21:8. One must believe the God of the Bible and not the god that suits our human tendencies.
I thought "person" and "soul" were basically the same thing.
God( The Son) created Adam & Eve with a Body & Soul.
Jesus (God the Son) said the greatest commandment is:
"Love God with all your MIND, heart & SOUL." God was telling us 2000 years ago, that the MIND of Man is the body & soul This is why Jesus could not actually be descended from Adam & Eve .. because the Human Body ( mind) has been corrupted.
The Human Body is the Nature of Man ... and always starts off being good & innocent. But over time the body itself or through the soul will think and/or do evil. If Jesus was actually descended from King David, ... his MIND would have ... eventually sinned .. because God the Son because an Human Being with a body & soul with a MIND that is the body & the soul.
Preponderance of evidence? It works for me. I believe. 🤷🏻♂️
My answer is: we are actually souls with a body....
Person and Soul are two separate.
There is only one soul.
The "classic" biblical heaven is Noah; I can't tell if Plantinga is discussing his views on afterlife or his own ego
Everyone will raised. Why not? There will be a lot of embarrassed people. Daniel speaks of eternal shame and disgrace.
If you ask a theist that idiotic question, what answer do you think you gonna get?
Garbage in the wrong material machine, garbage out! ☹️
A very Christian perspective, indeed, and not one that fits with other religions. Does he realise that the Jews came up with - what Christians call - The Old Testament? The Jews don’t call it the Old Testament because it’s the only book applicable (they weren’t much into sequels or, more precisely, they didn’t feel the need to try and improve on perfection, if you will). In Judaism, there is no Hell, so what implications does that have for all the Jews? Sorry, Alvin, but I find your logic and reasoning extremely flawed 😢
I’m pretty sure Alvin Plantinga is aware of Christianity’s connection to Judaism.
This is what happens when the mind contemplates too much.
What’s that… you become one of the most important and well respected philosophers of the 20th century?
A silly conversation. Far below the usual excellence of this series.
Genesis 2:7 shows that we humans are the soul. It says: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." And Ezekiel 18:4 indicates that we, the soul, do die. It states: "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." Therefore nothing lives inside us called soul. We are the soul. And Ecclesiastes 9:10 says, "Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going."
No. Man is body AND soul.
Jesus said "Love God with all your MIND, heart & SOUL" when He knew Man was made with a body & soul.
Also Jesus could not have a body that is actually descended from Adam & Eve, as the BODY has been corrupted with sin.
The Body of Man ... is Man's Nature ... and will lead all to sin.
Jesus would have sinned ... if he had a corrupted Human Body .. because the MIND of Man .. is the body AND soul.
@@abelincoln8885 Genesis 2:7 does not say the man came to HAVE a living soul rather it says "man BECAME a LIVING SOUL."
Life here is death; death had here is life.
The soul sacrificed itself so the body could live; the body is the tomb, is death, and is what allows for the Resurrection of Soul to Spirit to occur -- the rebirth.
A seed falls and dies to the earth, and in the soil, the darkness, rebirth is had and grows out from the darkness reaching the surface touching light.
God planted Light seeds here, to grow in the Spirit.
This place is the underworld -- Amenta, shoel, hades, hell.
This renewal, rebirth, Soul Knows Spirit more truly and grows in and towards. You experience much: Goodness from darkness, kindness from strife, joy from misery. The ability to exercise Willpower and be: charitable or greedy, selfless or narcissistic, Spiritual or materialistic.
The Soul that's resurrected in Christ, the world is made new.
All the beauty is evident, permeated throughout, acknowledging growth towards light.
An opportunity arises, the many trials -- protect nature, mind, peace or choose to forsake by your own negligence and ignorance.
Rely on your own understanding, or enquire and grow in knowledge reaping Wisdom.
Deny God because your science is inferior or acknowledge God and contemplate on All.
Appreciate all life.
Whether it's a clump of clay or gold, changes nothing as your sense of self or joy is not directed by outside objects.
Paul: what I concienced of as an evil was actually a good.
It's not science that cannot prove God -- science clearly acknowledges God and is a revealing -- it's materialistic men whom are atomists that deny God thinking mathematics is science when it is not.
no, but they can be r souls.
A thought experiment: what if you're in deep hibernation in a lost spaceship? You are not dead, but you will never wake up. Where is the soul then?
Damn, that's a good one! 👍
There is no hevan or hell
Why do such literate people refer to the Bible which is nothing but narrations from thousands of years ago? If there is consciousness independent of this body then we only will know after life or maybe through extraordinary experience. Belief means nothing.
Call it an assumption, not a belief. Assumptions are useful to get to further conclusions. And if we hit a contradiction, then we find out that the assumption is wrong and we find truth. Just like Descartes's cogito ergo sum. Assume that I don't exist. Wait, that assumption is a thought I am aware of. Given that it's my awareness, the assumption must be wrong. Therefore, I now know that I do really exist. That's improvement on top of Socrates who said he knew not.
@@BulentBasaran Thank you. Assumptions -- fine. But assumption should not be construed to claim knowing the truth, or the will of "God", and trying to convert people believing such assumptions. The experience of Being is not a philosophical thought. It is behind our senses and thought processes, but dearest to us.
So what is the Bible all about? And what impact has the Bible & Christianity had on world history and the Human Race?
Religion is a natural phenomena ... where Man will always believe in a soul/spirit and a supernatural being that made everything .. because Man has always known the origin of rules & Laws and anything that has clear & obvious function, design, form & purpose.
Everything in the Universe ... has clear & obvious ... function, design, form, purpose and seem to obey a set of natural Laws.
Only an intelligence like Man ... makes abstract & physical Functions ... but the Human Body is a physical Function composed of trillions of trillions of functions.
Consciousness is simply a function of the mind.
Animals & Man are physical (natural) entities with a mind ( brain) and a consciousness of the physical environment.
But Man is a natural intelligence with free will & a nature ... made by ... an UNNATURAL intelligence with free will & a nature
The mind of an intelligence is UNNATURAL & nonphysical( soul/spirit)
Man is a physical ( natural) entity with a physical mind(brain) & is an intelligence.
The mind of Man is Natural ( brain) & UNNATURAL ( soul/spirit).
Man is body & soul ... or ... natural & unnatural.
Animals are only natural.
God & Angels are ..UNNATURAL.
@@abelincoln8885 I do not know what is natural. For humans, thoughts are natural, and that means imaginations. What really "exists" beyond imaginations may not be reachable by thought. Any thought is just another imagination, even if on the level of highest intellect. I pledge for another dimension beyond thought -- which we may call consciousness. Without consciousness what is there for us to know?
@@RolandHuettmann Again. Consciousness is simply a FUNCTION of the Mind.
Without a "Mind" what is there for us to know?
There are only two realities:
1. Physical ( natural) -- where matter & energy obey the Laws of nature
2. Non-physical(unnatural) -- realm of the Mind of an intelligence.
The Mind of an Intelligence is Unnatural & non-physical.
The Mind of Man ... is physical (brain) & nonphysical (soul).
This is why Jesus( Son of God) said 2000 year ago, " Love God with all your mind, heart & soul" and why Jesus had to be born of a virgin, as the corrupted body of Man is his nature and is capable of thinking & doing evil, and make the soul think evil.
Man is Body & Soul.
Uh, no.
Maybe we will never be able to know if we have, a soul till we pass on. Faith is the only thing we can rely on. We deffinatly cannot rely on our mind if that is an illusion. Having said that, if conciousness is not an illusion then we will find out if we made the right choice or not in the afterlife, because that would mean we had free will.I think if we are a soul that would mean everalsting phicical life or reincarnation.I respect all views.
This may be an usolvable paradox.
@@andreasplosky8516 Yes you made a valid piont.Having said that no adult belives in a tooth fairy and things like that.There are people that believe in God and an afterlife. This is a discution and not necessarily my personal view.
Some people have other views about what logic is and some beliefs rely on faith. One thing I do agee with is don't mix Religion in a physical science class, just get on with the science.
Faith is the only thing we can rely on; is when I was speeking in the context of a soul and a creator. By that I mean God can't be proved or disproved so an act of faith is required to believe in a creator. My undestanding of a soul is a spritual word something other than the phisical body. That is what Christians believe. Christians oviously use their brains when carrying out their lives in a day to day manner; the physical part ( decernment). Apostles creed is what Catholics use to profess their faith.
To the best of my knolleged there is no soul mentioned in a physics class. So If one is an atheist then oviously one would consider only the matrial brain invovled as a conscious obsever. We are all free to believe what we want.That why I respect all views and all beliefs. I'm not infallible.
@@garffieldiscool1163 "Faith is the only thing we can rely on; is when I was speeking in the context of a soul and a creator. "
We can not rely on faith ever. It has nothing to offer. Faith is empty. People use it as a stopgap when they have nothing else. It is nothing more than throwing dice.
"By that I mean God can't be proved or disproved "
If even a thing supposedly as important as some god, can not even be proven to actually exist, then one should not believe in it, until it is proven to exist. Chances are huge that such a being does not exist at all.
Concerning the christian god things are simple: It does not exist!. Christian theology is an irrational, laughable mess. If that god existed it would be torn apart either by the absurd contradictions, or its own unfathomable evil and guilty consciousness.
"We are all free to believe what we want."
Yes we are, but some beliefs are rational, others are irrational.
@@andreasplosky8516 Your view is subjective as are the believers. Having said that I have freinds who believe and others that don't.They all seem on average the same.There are deffinatly false preachers( ones there for the wrong reason)
who use Reliogion to prey on the weak vulnerable and gullible to enrich themselves.
@@garffieldiscool1163 "Your view is subjective as are the believers. "
That is a meaningless phrase. How could it be otherwise? It is like saying "water is wet".
What counts is how one reaches conclusions, and when one starts to believe certain claims. There is a rational way and there is an irrational way. Theistic magical beliefs can only be reached through fallacies, indoctrination, sloppy thinking in general, and no thinking at all. Never have I encountered anything else.
You can dig up any apologist book, or lecture and what you will read and hear always is total irrational nonsense, veiled threats, and laughable promises. That is the way of theism. It is an aberration of the human mind.
"I have freinds who believe and others that don't.They all seem on average the same."
Keyword here is "on average".
Soul: timeless self-awareness
Consciousness: a mental continuum with no beginning and no end
There is no reasonable way in which self-awareness/consciousness can cease; the idea of the end to consciousness is just a misunderstanding about its nature. It's just a language problem
God is the soul.
There is absolutely no evidence that humans have a soul, or that any afterlife exists.
A human is not a soul. A human does not have a soul. This "soul" notion comes from Greek mythology and was further twisted by Christianity. The Egyptians had a much better definition of what makes a human. There is something called BA (Egyptian). I call it True Self. The True Self uses something called KA, nowadays they say "Aura", to interact with and use the human body. This KA is the energy body felt during the Near Death Experiences and Out of Body Experiences. The KA leaves the body at death transmitting all the information from the human brain to the BA - True Self. The BA afterwards has the option of choosing another body to continue interacting with the material world. Please, do yourself a favor and go beyond "Christianity" if you want to dig deep! A person relates to True Self in the same way a drop of water relates to the ocean. In other words the person is an immensely limited version of a True Self.
Well does a person lose their identity in the True Self, is there just 1 big True Self for everyone or does everyone have a different True Self. Christianity also teaches that out current selves are but a pale image of what we will be in the resurrected state, but each person will still have their own identity, ie each persons True Self is much bigger than they are now but each person has a different and distinct True Self. Otherwise we die and cease to exist.
@@GalaxyCat001 Not for everyone, for each one. The ocean (True Self) is the real you. The person is your current trimmed down version of True Self. There is a myriad of True Selves out there, each interacting with the material world through persons.
@@GalaxyCat001 Christianity is misunderstood by the vast majority of "Christians", by their opponents and enemies. That happens when you take something out of context and then destroy (burn, kill) the carriers of the context. Nothing stays hidden forever though, thus we are getting back the context for the last 200 years.
@@EggtherSong Another possibility is that there is only one true self manifesting as many persons in the physical world. Something like a distributed program running on a cluster of computers, just like one internet, many servers on it...
@@BulentBasaran That is called pantheism if I am not mistaken. This is an idea I have not found support for in mythology, religion or history. Correct me if I am wrong.
Me too give me hell. I don't want to to heaven.
for heaven to be true.. does that mean aliens don't exist???
A soul is a man word
Nope. Worm food, and that’s it…
Man created god
Imaginary entity has imaginary future!
Gotta have a way to live forever
The soul exist because consciousness cannot be explained by physical processes happening in the brain because consciousness is not a physical process it can't be broken down into parts like physical objects and it can't be an emergent property because emergent properties are subjective and only exist if you ignore the smaller parts that make up the emergent property.
@@izzymosley1970 the soul isn't a scientific idea and therefore cannot explain anything.
@@sentientflower7891 just because it's not scientific doesn't mean it doesn't exist also non scientific things can explain other things philosophical concepts like logic can be used to explain things in fact science itself is based off of philosophy so if it was true that you can't explain anything without science you wouldn't be able to have science because science is based off of philosophical concepts like logic.
@@izzymosley1970 in its original form soul was an attribute of all things, humans and rats and trees and stones. In its original form your human soul could end up in a rat or a tree or a stone after you died. Consciousness wasn't under consideration.
Bah! Humbug! This is one of those arguments like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Verbal masturbation and a waste of time. But sure. Go ahead and enjoy yourself.
Very helpful. Thanks, Steve.
Nothing is real
My old theory of evolution seems to be true too… I saw a photo of an octopus, but it resembled a frog, so I thought it was a “Frog”…
Hahaha… anyhow, that’s just a “grabber”…
The Original Mamalian Blue-Print of preparation to “walk on water,” hard crusting land rovers…
I think my Evolutionary Theory may be closer to the truth too…
I know “ONE” thing for sure… I know “why” people didn’t or don’t understand my Quantum Theory… Hahaha… We are speaking two different “LANGUAGES”… I didn’t care to know the scientific language, that’s why I made up my own terms and labels, mine are way more “Fantastic”… Like this- Quantum Implosion Based Vortex Wave Dynamics Creating Light from Sound… or, Gravity, Strong Fortce, WIMPS, etc. Hahaha… You get the picture… I think it’s funny because now I know I’m right…
EXCLUSION Zone Based Photosynthesis’s via Vortex Wave Dynamics or “Quantum Gravity” Compression and Radiation… Vortex Dynamics CREATES Photopsynthetic Plasma, H2O and the same process works in synthetic Gels by hydrophilic synthetic photosynthesis…
RA!!! 369
I “UNDERSTAND” their Scientific Language “NOW”… I was wondering to myself, how the hell do people not see this… So, I went First Principle yesterday (watched several closer to truth videos on RUclips, and I noticed the “incongruous language discrepancy IMMEDIATELY”… I guess I should say, “I acknowledged it”… Big difference, I got tired of playing mental ju-jitsu so I “STEALTHED” them… RA!!! 369 (I Am Masculine Energy)… I smell weakness a mile away…
RA!!! 369 I didn’t care to before (I was like a first semester Spanish language student dealing with everyone who were Spanish language masters… One other example would be 3-digit codons… I preferred to call them “Trinity Machines”… Hahaha… RA!!! 369
So Now I tell them,- “What Up Judgmental Ego-Maniacs!” I Am “Proven” Correct… The shoes on the other foot now…and I know people would be jumping up and down with joy if they understood my language, they don’t, so I decided to learn and use (their/ physics) discombobulated terms and labels to describe reality, even though it was confusing. Nonetheless, I brushed up on current verbage and I’m ready to “Write”…
If the “LION” could write “HE” would write in Electric Cursive Light Symbols… Well, Since I Am “The Scribe,” I write for the LION!
100% Victory
I Discovered the Mechanism that CREATES All Existence…
Vortex Based Exclusion Zones Created from “Implosions”… This is Quantum Gravity, Vortex Wave Dynamics! A literal “Quantum Operating System” that Creates Honeycomb Lattice Structure throughout our Universe…
Brownian Motion is Solved!
New understanding of mechanism of creation CONFIRMED!…!
In my book, this makes me the “BMF”!!!…!!! Baddest Mother F@cker! Or in Scientific Language “The Man who Discovered the Photosynthetic Mechanism of Creation, via (-) Masculine Quantum Entanglement’s created by Quantum Gravity… Hahaha…
RA!!! 369
Know Thy Self!
Hydro-Magnetic-Sonoliminescent-Implosion Induced Photo-Synthetic Exclusion Zones…
Magnetic Electricity! Right from my book! Magnetic Imagination!
If that’s “Not” and example of “Pre-Sentiment” (or is this pre-destination? Hahaha- see what I mean about language, we might as well have the tower of babble erected everywhere… So, this is it on a Grand Scale (see 2012 Lucid Dream Sketch of Magnetic Universe), then- presentiment does not exist! I have Confirmed the “Quantum Operating System Of Life”!…!
RA!!! 369
I Am “The Vortex Master, Dr. Quantum,” Scribe Of “THE ALL”…
So Mote It Is And Be!
I Am!
“415”!!!…!!!
RA!!! 369
So Mote It Be Eternal! RA!!! 369 Sealed With The Electric Vortex!
PS: What better Mechanism Describes “INFLATION” Better Than A “TORUS” Geometry that Creates ALL Platonic Solids…
I rest my Case!
100% Victory!…!
As soon as somebody brings a god into it, the conversation has entered the realm of superstition and no longer, IMO, constitutes a rational discourse.
A very modern and arogant statement. Humans believed in gods for thousands of years. We have become "enlightened by Darwin" and materialism for less than 300 years. And that propaganda (not facts) is falling apart. The "gods" were here and still are here. If you like it or not.
So, in your opinion, reason cannot or should not hold discussions on the unknown? Or is it, in your opinion, that the unknown is irrational? Or, do you hold, that the unknowable is irrational?
@@kallianpublico7517 Discussion is not contradictory or opposed to the subject of "gods". Christianity and its child Darwinism have brought about an ugly mindset reduced to black vs white, "gods" vs "science". I love science (not the materialistic propaganda) and I love discussion. One of my arguments is that modern day mainstream science is also a religion. The terminology is different, the essence is the same. "Assumptions" instead of "beliefs". "Theories" (that are not to be questioned) instead of dogmas. I am not religious in the least. I do believe in the existence of "gods", but I am strongly opposed to worshipping them. BTW "god" does not mean "Creator".
@@EggtherSong God does not mean creator? Then you do not understand the statement that humanity is created "..in God's image..". That statement means that our will, free or not, is set out.
According to Darwin our plasm and fate is interconnected and affected by the genetic environment. According to believers our fate is interconnected and affected by the wills around us. God is the God of will: our fate is beyond the gene if we can find the way to it.
As beings created in God's image our will partakes in the source of our creation. Darwin is a God of another image. According to Darwin natural or artificial selection is governed by genes. To believe in Darwin is to believe that genes are all. That science, religion, philosophy, art, ethics, literature, etc, are all figments of genetically, endowed brains.
Evolution has no respect for will, only genes. To worship Darwin is to engage in idolatry: to worship a pagan God. I'm sure there will be benefits, but none beyond morality. Unless Darwin is exempt from human folly.
@@kallianpublico7517 Sorry pal! I have nothing to do with Darwin or his followers. You are beating the wrong drum. Your brain is too clogged with Christian BS. A god is not necessarily a creator. Not everyone saying they are Napoleon are Napoleon (that is a joke). The biblical "god" is a genocidal egomaniac, not a Creator. You are free to believe and worship anything or anyone you want. Good luck!
Very refreshing to hear someone truly godly speak the word of god and not of some pagan beliefs about the soul being immortal which is the same lie that Satan told Adam and Eve that they surely wouldn't die (Gen. 2:17). We have to put on immortality and everyone will be saved because Jesus is the savior of the world and every knee shall bow.
Ecclesiastes 9:10
King James Version
10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
---
1 Corinthians 15:54
King James Version
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
---
1 Timothy 4:10
King James Version
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
---
Isaiah 45:23
King James Version
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
1 Corinthians 3:13-15
King James Version
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: *but he himself shall be saved;* yet so as by fire.
No way to know..
How do you know?
@@joshheter1517 all metaphysical speculation is ..not provable.
@@farmerjohn6526
Are you saying that in order to know something you must be able to prove that it is true?
Can you prove that to be true?
@@joshheter1517 well, to begin with you may "know" a lot of things that are not so. (true). What is to Know? Is to know mean that you re-member something? Is that what to know something means? We know a lot of things (remember things). Like we remember seeing a tree at a particular location in space and time. So, does it make sense to say we know that tree? On the other hand if you go to school and a teaches you that the revolutionary war occurred in 1930, and you stored that information in your memory - is knowing that statement about the revolutionary war mean that statement is a true statement? So what is true? and what is to Know? what is knowledge but a collection of ideas, memories, and information that we accumulate over a lifetime. But most of it we don't "fact check" now do we. My original statement dealt with "metaphysical statements". Meta-physical means beyond the physical or topics that are abstract or even speculative. I am sure there may be more subject matter in the metaphysical domain, like morals (what is the right action to take in life). There is no specific moral action that can be proven to be the "right action". So, as one example of a metaphysical topic, you cannot prove it. You may think you know what is morally right action, but that thought is for the most a delusionary thought (or not provable.). I have witnessed many writers that have written a million pages of nothing. Based on a false proposition (or non provable proposition). Even a series of very complicated and very accurate mathematical equations, that start with a false assumption, means nothing at all. You might prove - multi-verse is a solution to some quantum problem.... but without any experimental evidence to back it up - it means nothing at all. SO, Can I prove that " in order to know something you must be able to prove that it is true"... NO, you certainly can "know" things that are NOT true. But, I think I can prove that in order to know things that are true, you must prove they are true. ..... QED
@@farmerjohn6526
You can’t know things that aren’t true. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
I happy with not afterlife for a while until I realised how huge infinity’s can be then I started getting worried about reincarnation, multiverse style or other. Maybe some questions are like trying to divide infinity by itself or 1 which gives an error and means it’s not possible but if it’s combinations on infinity’s with constraints then the same thing may be possible over and over
We are God dreaming we are not 😉
I'm really enjoying this party and I don't want it to end so I'm going to make up some s*** to convince myself that it will go on forever. Even better if I can convince others.
Do you have a rational objection to what was said in this video, or were you just hoping to recreationally insult it?
@@joshheter1517 Both 😁
@@JeffBedrick
Yet, you only chose the latter. 🤔
@@joshheter1517 No, you chose to ignore the former clearly implied in my original comment and I'm just not in the mood to spell out for you an obvious point when mockery serves just as well.
@@JeffBedrick
Your OP (poorly and in a juvenile fashion) gives a potential ulterior motive for why Plantinga is saying the things that he is in this video.
If that’s your “rational objection”, you’re literally committing a textbook fallacy.
To believe in God is not going to hurt you and if something good comes of it you win.
Believe in that context means make yourself believe. In other words lie yourself. Of course this can hurt. If you believe that false is true then you are hurt. Your assumption is false.
@@furiousinsects6386 Jesus said all you have to do is believe and you will be saved. In the old testament all you had to do was hear the word and you would be saved. You have nothing to lose.
What a load of hogwash!