Why Did Dooku Tell Obi-Wan About Darth Sidious in Attack of the Clones?
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The Non-Canon Expert explains why Dooku told Obi-Wan about Darth Sidious on Geonosis as seen in Attack of the Clones.
Thank you very much for your patience everyone! I finally have internet back up and a place to record, so I can catch up on all of the recent Star Wars news and start recording/uploading again. :) I will release an update video in the coming days discussing my plans for Twitch and gaming videos over on Star Wars Gaming Club, as well as some general information about the channel with Episode 8 around the corner. Thank you again for your patience these past few days, and as always, for your support! I hope that you enjoy today’s video.
+Star Wars Reading Club I agree with your analysis - well done. I do think, however, you could've put more emphasis on Dooku's sentimental attachment to Obi Wan. He really does think of Obi Wan as a grandson, due to their shared link of Qui Gon, and Kenobi is probably the only Jedi alive at this point whom Dooku would've beseeched his master to spare not once - but twice. Palpatine becomes aware of Dooku's attachment to Obi Wan in the novelization of ROTS during their conversation you referenced... And he decides that that's all the more reason Dooku ought to be forced to kill Obi Wan in the impending duel.
Star Wars Reading Club , You rock, dude!
Kind of a random topic, but would the Clone Wars be considered cannon? Given the fact that Anakin is referred to as Master numerous times throughout the show, and he is told that he is not a master in Revenge of the Sith.
+Sean Rider Many Jedi Knights were called "master" by Jedi padawans, younglings, and non-Jedi beings. It was used as a term of respect. Even Obi Wan is referred to as "Master Kenobi" in AOTC several times, although he is only actually a knight at that point. E.g. I know Dooku says to him "Master Kenobi, you disappoint me. Yoda holds you in such high esteem" during their AOTC duel, and the younglings also say "Hello, Master Kenobi" to him when he walks in on their training session. The Jedi Librarian (and Master) Jocasta Nu calls him "Master Kenobi" as well, when he is searching the Jedi archives for the planet Kamino. So the fact that Anakin Skywalker is referred to as "master" by Ahsoka and others during TCW doesn't disqualify it from being canon. Furthermore, Disney has declared publicly TCW's status as being part of their new canon.
Star Wars Reading Club Who would win in lightsaber dual without force powers?
In the long run, Dooku proved his point with what he revealed to Obi-Wan. Despite outright telling them that Darth Sidious controlled the Senate, the Jedi did absolutely nothing. They were content to obey the Senate, rather calling Dooku untrustworthy than considering that he might actually be telling the truth. They were so confident and arrogant, so sure that they would have noticed. It's no wonder Dooku left the Jedi Order.
Arrogance blinded Jedi and they felt the full power of the dark side! I have to watch it once more again but Obi-Wan also was sadely arrogant here (...). As I remember he heard the truth and done - as other Jedi - nothing with that! ... For me the main reason of Jedi fall was arrogance of the Jedi Order.. After that to be honest I don't like Jedi Order very much. They've also as I remember put in some way Qui-Gon away cause he was to open-minded.. Maybe if Jedi Order would be less arrogant, then Dooku wouldn't leave the Order.. No fresh blood, no changes, Jedi must have died.
Reading the books the Jedi actually did consider the possibility of Dooku telling the truth but did not do a thorough investigation until much later mainly because they had no proof and did not not want to create a political fallout between the Jedi and the Senate.
One if the lost epsides of Clone Wars does have them readdressing the information gave him here, along with them learning other revelations...though ultimately they still are missing key pieces and don't have enough to go on to reverse the course their already deep into with fighting the Clone War.
Another subtle thing among many the war also did to the jedi that we see in early episodes of the clone wars is reduce their numbers, it's not one of the top episodes but "Lair of Grievous" has Kit Fisto's former student showing near deranged battle lust which evidently gets him killed, through out the episode his clearly not being mentally ready to be a soldier much less a general isn't called out hard as it should have been....now multiple that across all the other jedi being thrown into the war and by the time you get to order 66 the jedi order's numbers have been reduced from what they were before...and those jedi who are alive are spread out and easy pickings, those left at the temple being a shadow of what the temple probably held before (you could read into some of the later episodes and scenes in revenge of the sith of huge hallways being mostly empty implying that somewhat).
@Jason Smith Right. However, he did tell them that "Darth Sidious" was controlling the entire senate, and pitting both sides against each other. That alone should have been a hint for them to start seriously investigating the Chancellor. The guy who gave himself "emergency powers" to do a lot of stuff the Chancellor isn't supposed to be able to do. The guy that wasn't shy about overstaying his term limits, and was acting pretty shady by the time attack of the clones rolled around. Not to mention they had no idea how Sifo Dyas got the funding for the clone army, and he mysteriously died afterwards. They should have just bugged Anakin's clothes or droid arm without telling him, and then when they heard Palpatine making all of these vague comments about the dark side, and Plagueis, then send in Yoda, Windu, and Kenobi to bust his ass. Hell, just checking his room they would have found Sith artifacts in those urns.
Just a lot of dumbness.
Introverder kind of makes sense why Yoda told Luke not to underestimate the emperor.
Dooku was always a straight shooter, I truly thought he was wanting to destroy the sith, saw the Jedi was a lost knowing what was coming. His proposal to obi was more of a last cry for help and he was shoot down.
That does make sense!
I believe he actually was telling the truth.
Exactly, I felt Dooku was something an unofficial double agent who trying to get rid of the Sith
0:10 seconds in, Obi-Wan may be a prisoner but he still has the high ground
what a pro player
I feel like part of the reason that Dooku told Obi-Wan was also because he hoped that Obi-Wan would bring that information back to the Jedi Council. Believing that a Sith Lord was controlling the Senate would help to further drive a wedge between the Jedi Order and the Republic, with the Jedi's suspicion of the Senate making it look like they really were scheming against them
fightingfalcon777 agreed
That would mean, that Dooku knew Obi-Wan would make it back to the council. He was going to be executed remember?
Rexidexi Anakin was scheduled to be executed, too, yet Sidious's master plan was to always bring Anakin into the fold
fightingfalcon777 don't forget Darth Sidious had planned for the Clones to attack on Geonosis therefore freeing and cementing the trust between the Jedi and clones and I agree with the main comment
That's actually really plaussible!
I think there's another angle at play as well. A similar situation as Vader and Luke. Vader wanted to bring his son on board. Sidious was fully aware of this, working his own plans. However, Vader was both working under his Master's orders AND hoping he could utilize his son as an apprentice and overthrow Sidious.
The same could be true of Dooku. He may have had a long gaze on the end goal, been planning to do away with Sidious upon the closing of the war, and been hoping to groom Obi Wan until then as an apprentice. Sort of a proto-Ventriss.
That makes sense since somewhere, I do not know if it is the RotS book or a different one, Dooku was hoping to bring Obi-wan on board with Anakin. Palpatine of course said no since Obi-wan was set in his ways as a Jedi. Plus he did not want anyone interfering with his control over Anakin. But yeah. Since Obi-wan was Qui-Gon's Padawan Dooku probably felt some contention with Obi-wan, though if Qui-Gon had survived he probably would have Dooku's first choice.
My head cannon is that dooku was trying to save the universe, and was a good guy.
+ Oscar Mike If you read the EU novels and comics, Dooku really was trying to bring peace back to the universe. He believed that the Jedi were corrupt and incompetant, and had pretty much enslaved themselves to the even more corrupt and incompetant Senate. When Sidious revealed himself to Dooku, and told him about how Sidious controlled the Senate, Dooku eventually agreed with him that the Republic had to be torn down ans rebuilt into an empire with a strong central government in order to restore peace and balance. He also fully intended to murder Sidious in revenge for Qui-Gon eventually, though he was planning to wait until he had learned all that Sidious had to teach him about the Dark Side first, because his hunger for knowledge and power was what had driven him out of the Jedi Order.
So yeah, he was, in his own way, working for peace and stability. He had vastly different views on how to go about it than most, but he also had justification to see things that way.
He's a rather complex character, too complex to really label 'good' or 'evil'. He was both, whenever he deemed it neccessary for his goals to act that way.
The sith are an order. Every sith is completely self centered. I don't think Dooku thought that Obi Wan would say no but he was prepared for all contingencies.
@@Pro_Butcher_Amateur_HumanWell said.
Had Dooku ever realized, midway through the Clone Wars, that Sidious had no reason to keep him around for the Empire and that he was expendable once the war ended, do you think he could have turned the Clone Wars into a real conflict and conquered the Republic with the CIS? And if so, could he have achieved his goals of a "pure human government" if he went that route?
I like to imagine he would have leaked Sidious' identity to the Jedi Council, leading to Order 66 et al. only without Anakin-as-Vader and ahead of schedule for Palpatine. Dooku could then ally with the surviving Jedi and, without Palpatine holding them back, the droids could conceivably conquer Coruscant, with Dooku and his Jedi allies killing Palpatine. From there, as the new Head of State of the Imperial Senate, Dooku could reveal proof of Palpatine's crimes as the man who orchestrated the war, hunt down any Jedi who didn't convert to the dark side, and recognize the CIS as an independent government (but sow chaos throughout so that the Separatist worlds would, eventually, rejoin the Empire of their own free will). This leaves Dooku as Emperor of the human-centric government his master already built for him.
Does that scenario seem reasonable, or are there too many issues with it, in your opinion?
Fallout Junkie well first of all Dooku wasn’t racist, but besides that it’s fine
He was, actually moreso than Palpatine. Palpatine used humanocentricism that already existed to his advantage, making the alien CIS seem like the enemy. Dooku, though, genuinely hated non-humans by at least the Battle of Coruscant; his internal thoughts in the RotS novelization show that he was aware that the CIS was meant to strip wealth and power away from alien worlds and put them into the hands of an "Empire of Man," and he believed that humans were "the only beings who could be trusted" with those assets.
You're skipping a few steps between "Dooku and his Jedi allies killing Palpatine" to "Dooku as head of state of the imperial senate". Would the Jedi really allow him to become that? Would the republic even recognize Dooku's authority and reorganize itself into an empire with him as the head of state, just because he said so? Conquering Coruscant would mean that he conquered Coruscant and is holding the senate hostage, not that the rest of the galaxy will listen to him.
Is the “pure human government” a real goal for Count Dooku? I know there is evidence of human preference in the Star Wars galaxy, such as the vast majority of buildings and ships being designed for human control. That’s probably because these are movies made on earth by humans. It’s just cool to have an in universe explanation as well as the meta one 👍🏽.
I myself also interpreted the offer as a deliberate breadcrumb, designed to tip the Jedi off about Sidious' existence in such as way as to drive a wedge between them and the Senate in order to lay the groundwork for Order 66. Still, the sentimentality argument is one I can believe. I myself would've had that ending line be "For healthy skepticismmmmmm" then cut to Order 66 images and/or Palpatine with a lightsaber and then say "or maybe not".
With the addition of new information, I think Dooku was hoping that Obi Wan would believe him. In effect restoring his faith in the Jedi. Kind of a last minute Hail Mary pass.
Personally, I like the idea that Dooku was genuine and had a long game of a secret apprentice once he no longer needs Palpatine
Another reason is it benefited the sith grand plan in the long-term. As Yoda said on the matter, Dooku's way now is deceit and "creating mistrust". While Dooku wasnt lying the Jedi did become more wary of the Senate and did not reveal as much to them, creating mistrust both ways.
It didn't matter of mistrust between the Senate and the Jedi order! Palpatine had control of the Senate. When the war started he was handing information about what the jedi and Clones were doing in many cases. As Chancellor he had access to all war efforts.
Christopher Lee is Count Dooku from Star Wars Episode 2: Attack of The Clones and Star Wars Episode 3: Revenge of The Sith. He is also Saruman from Lord of The Rings: The Fellowship of The Ring and Lord of The Rings: The Two Towers. He is also Francisco Scaramanga from The Man with The Goldengun.
Eugene Derry: He is actually many movie characters including Count Dracula, The Frankenstein Monster, The Mummy, Baskerville and many more, which is pretty amazing! 🙂
Jacen Starhunter He is actually dead now. He passed away in 2015.
I am soo late to this party... but I will comment anyway! Looking at Sidious' plans at large, I fairly believe that he allowed or even ordered Dooku to reveal his name and influence over the Senate to sow the seeds of doubt in the Jedi. Sidious' plans relied heavily on alienating the galactic public and the Jedi Order and it worked well, it lead the Jedi to mistrust the Senate and Chancellor to the point of even spying on them and creating plans how to oust and arrest him. Something that backfired on them in the end cause their arrest attempt became Sidious' main proof of the Jedi's treachery. My oppinion is reinforced by a line that Yoda says in the novel "Labyrinth of Evil" where he and Kenobi spends some time talking on Cato Neimoidia. "Looked hard at the Senate, we did. And risked much we did by doing so--questioning in secret those we serve. But no evidence we found." I firmly believe that revealing Sidious on Geonosis and his influence was one step on the road of making the Jedi Order crumble by turning their reputation and relation with the public and the Senate strained.
funny how yoda train dooku then dooku trained quigon jhin and then jhin trained kenobi then kenobi trained ankain and then kenibo and yoda trained luke who trained kylo so that would mean that yoda played a part in all of it so i think that snoke was trained by yoda at some point but went missing in action and turned to to the dark side
Some of the jedi were so ''good'' that they would never believe in the existence of a second dark lord, different from Darth Sidious
The jedi were supporting evil, they supported democracy.
The emperor was a Sith but he was 100% spot on regarding politics.
He liked obi one and wanted to be friend with, if he believed dooku he would have joined him as he would also have lost faith in the jedi, if he did not it would confirm that the jedi were out of touch like dooku believed
When I watched Episode II for the first time I thought Dooku told Obi Wan about Sidious simply as an attempt to mock him. "I'm telling you everything because your one with the force very soon".
You want him to break his integrity, because of how strong his integrity was... hnmmmm
What if Sidious foresaw Obi Wan as a threat and influenced Dooku to recruit or seed doubt to derail Obi Wan's later efforts. It is well known that Sidious had clear perceptions of the future but he also had very vague and cryptic visions as well - maybe he saw a timeline with an older grey Obi Wan surviving Order 66 - grey in age and grey Jedi affiliation since the order was no more. Yoda would appear in the forecasted timeline but he was already 900 years old and already appeared as an echo in the force (without a light or dark signature) due to his age.
In the Japanese version of this scene, Dooku and Obi-Wan have a completely different conversation. Dooku actually reveals that Darth Maul is still alive, well over a decade before the Clone Wars episode depicted Maul's survival. Crazy stuff.
a novelization is not the same as what is contained in the film(s). It seems this is not unlike when vader triedto get luke to join him in 'empire' - I believe in that movie as well as in 'attack', both characters really menat to team up with whom they were speaking to destroy sidious. sidious whom they each recognized as not much better than being simply a '..butcher..', whose rule was bound to fail because of personal flaws. this isn't to say that dooku and vader (especially, vader), weren't flawed, they just weren't as depraved as sidious.
The real question is not why Dooku told Obi Wan about Sidious, but why Obi Wan decided to keep his fucking mouth shut about it...
One thing I don't get, Sifo Diyas died before Palpatine's Administration, meaning it happened before The Phantom Menace, but it was stated that Dooku hired the Pykes to shoot down Sifo Diyas. Didn't Dooku join Sidious AFTER Maul got defeated?
Bryan Leong happened right after TPM I think
MarsKidd27 But in The Clone Wars, he's been said to have died before Palpatine's Administration, which mean he wasn't Chancellor yet and Maul wasn't gone.
i noticed that error too though in an interview dave filoni said that dooku was working for sidious even before TPM. Now that bothers me alot because that would mean Palpatine violated the rule of two.
Bryan Leong also shouldn't r2 D2 and yoga recognise each other in degobah in empire
Sacha Cremin I look at is as they did but just didn't say anything to each other. Yoda acts like a fool with R2 to trick Luke.
I left a like for "not believing things simply because the Jedi are unaware of them"
But why didn't ob1 ever mention that to the council
And yet the jedi still did little to nothing until it was too late
Dooku could have easily conquered the galaxy without sidious.
I just don't understand why people hate the prequels, so Much mystery in them they r arguably better than the Originals
Count Dooku is not a Sith but helping Obi Wan to train Aniken when he becomes a Rebel Spy
I think he wanted to actually destroy sidious but knew he was not powerful enough
imagine if dooku were emperor instead of palpatine in the saga
What if Palpatine, Obi-Wan and Anakin died on the Invisible Hand?
That would create a massive plot hole considering the original Star Wars was made almost 30 years before ROTS and all three of those characters are still alive in the original movie.
Attachment. Doku I don't think was a true sith. He in my opinion still honored his brothers in the order... mainly Obi Wan. He shared loyalty to their common friend. He wanted to save his well in a way grand son of sorts. Doku cared about destroying a corrupt government. Not destroying life's that did not be to. Doku even had respect for his foe Grand Marth Tarkren. Doku is complex. Doku is a dark side user... If obi won would have though things out and changed his words I think he could have pulled doku back into the lighter side of the force. Or into at least a gray jedi.
Ive got another question. Why Obi wan has an eyeliner in the thumbnail
So if dooku saw kenobi as a grandson then would that have make anakin like his great grandson and Ashoka like his great great granddaughter?
Duku technically was the last hope if Duku became the leader of the order of the Jedi, he would’ve been able to help them instead of joining the Seth. He would’ve been able to help the Jedi see through their dogmatic views, and help to destroy the Sith once, and for all, he was their only hope Duku was he was on their side all along even now if they only listen to Duku, they’re downfall could’ve been prevented
Dooku is GOAT
actually fool, id bet a lot of younglings that if anakin lost the duel to dooku, sideous would have been vulnerable, and dooku hated the sith, so anakin actually saved his life twice, dooku, then mace, dooku would have cut sideous with his laser sword if anakin didnt get in his way.
dooku and vader both plotted against palpatine, and planned to destroy him, he should of have kept maul.
perfect slave, wouldent turn on him at end
So in actuality, Dooku was somewhat of a good guy in that he really did have good intentions, and wanted what he thought as best for the republic, because he was right, the Republic was corrupt. Sidious was the real bad guy, my proof? Dooku didn't have yellow eyes.
Al Costello He did on some occurrences in the Clone Wars
Dooku didn't have yellow eyes because he hadn't fully fallen to the dark side yet.
Count Dooku´s character needed a better explanation in main series. How on earth could 80+ yo elder believe a generation younger sith to train him and truly take him as aprentice??? If Dooku kept Sith code, he had to kill Sidious, take his own aprentice and train him. How old would he be before he managed that? 120-140 years old? This makes no sence.
Dooku told him because he knew the Jedi council/"masters" were so stupid and incompetent that even if told the truth they would still be easily manipulated/defeated, which they were.
If i had a boy i would name him either, Tavion or Syfo cause those names are really cool and unique. Videl if i had a girl.
No they wouldnt, cause their cousins would beat up the bullies, and me and my bros would beat up the bullies' parents. Better than calling them boring Sarah and John like the rest of the boring sheeple mainstream.
Well if people want to believe that the United States Intelligence community (thats the CIA, NSA and FBI) were duped by a small group of terrorists from the middle east; who acted completely alone and with NO outside help whatsoever, thats entirely upto them.
This confused me so much during the movie it never made sense
He always liked obi wan anyway, believing that obi wan was closer to him because he was the student of his student, always went easy on him through the movies and clone wars, I mean they're first fight he only nicked him but he cut off anakin's arm, it's just subtle things like that. Always complimenting him too in the clone wars, like "well done master kenobi" probably believing that some of his teachings were instilled in him as they were qui gon.
Dooku was incredibly sad when Qui Gon died! Qui Gon was much wiser then mostly all other jedi IMO.
So wait... he liked his student's student more than his student's student's student? Qui gon would have trained anakin if he were alive
@Devin Carter it depends on who they are. In this scenario, if I was Dooku, I would choose Anakin since Kenobi is too much of a by-the-book good guy and I'm a sith now, the young angry kid might actually pay attention to me...
Is it a family type thing..Jedi are brought as children so in a sense is dooku a grandfather to Kenobi?
I think its only because Obi-Wan was Qui-Gon padawan. He kind of respected that.
Im going to say this before I watch: Dooku, Count of Sorenno told Obi Wan in great detail about the Dark Lord so maybe, just maybe, Obi Wan who was like a Grandson to him, would believe him. I mean, someone won't believe you if you don't have specifics to back up your claims.
Press F to pay respects to Count Dooku. He really was just a pawn in Palpatines game.. He wasn't like the other Sith Lords. All he wanted was a better Republic, his Padawan alive, and Obi Wan alive. As a "Sith", he adhered to the discipline mindset of the Jedi. He never let rage overtake him.
That's why he is one of the only sith's whe equel's mace windu in a lightsabet combat
Lies, he literally tried to kill obi wan twice or even more during the clone wars and put a bounty on padmé amidala.
Would you shut up and just say what you want to say, instead of repeating yourself 20 times in less than 5 minutes!
I know. God! This guy tells stories like an old grandma with Alzheimers!
He makes videos like he is writing an essay. State his contention at the start. Make an argument and restate his contention. He does this 10 times a video. One has to wonder about the age of the person running this channel. Sounds like a middle school kid has written the script
Ikrrrre
I'm starting to think the Count Dooku should have been the Supreme Chancellor. Maybe I would even a joint then
Both he and Palpatine were outstanding chess players. Palpatine just the slightly better of the two.
Honestly sidious is like a 100 steps ahead. Always thinking and making decisions so far in advance .he literaly like controls everything.hes like the illusive man on steriods,vandal savage ras al ghul,thanos and many others. It would be cool to see a step by step for sidous like written out.
@@Jra8994He still didn't have the intuition to see that Vader wanted to overthrow him.
swear I like your videos but you talk in circles a lot about the same sentence
+Jason Sunderland YES! Him and Stupendous Wave both my friend
+Jason Sunderland lmfao its crazy how I'm not the only one who notices that shit too hahaha! yeah he's not original. idk why I'm still giving him a chance to be honest. but he copies SWT a lot
Jason Sunderland agreed
+fortnum he not better than Star Wars Theory or Stupendous Wave soooo
+fortnum I'm pretty sure 99% of would agree star wars theory and Stupendous Wave are the best ones. but you are entitled to be wrong I'm sure a person like you always is lmfao
Nah, he clearly never wanted to be a Sith Lord that's why his eyes weren't yellow. He still had a TON of jedi and good in him and he realized that while he had Obi wan with him in private he could somehow save things at the last second.
I agree I believe count Duke and was not a sith Lord but a jedi in disguise
Count Dooku had an ego, based on the power he gained from past suffering. He was proud of this power and the power of his students. Darth Sidious exploited that ego to make Dooku into Darth Tyranus, by exposing the corruption in the Republic. Tyranus ultimately saw the Clone Wars as a means to an end, after which he planned to expose Sidious as a Sith Lord. Dooku was looking for a new apprentice, despite its violation of the rule of two, when Obi-Wan showed up.
He can be on his side without being his apprentice. To wield the dark side one need only be force sensitive, the Pinnacle of darkside users are the order of the sith lords.
Whilst I accept that this is the only logical canon explanation, I have come to my own conclusion about Dooku's true motives. Despite the insistence from both Legends and Canon that Dooku was 'evil', I believe that this is a hugely two-dimensional interpretation of Dooku's character. I believe that Dooku is in fact more of a well-intentioned extremist, who believed that the ends justify the means and so defects to the Sith in a genuine attempt to preserve peace in the Galaxy. It is my geniune belief that Dooku was in fact a grey-moral motivated middle-ground between the Jedi and the Sith in the prequels. It is for this exact reason that Sidious has Dooku killed. Dooku genuinely wanted Obi-Wan to join him, to provide an element of stability to what he foresaw as a potentially shaky relationship between himself and his Master, Sidious. I realise that this contradicts a lot of what is seen in the Expanded Medium of both Canon and Legends, but I maintain that whoever wrote this backstory for Dooku has fundamentally misunderstood the character - or, at least, what his character should have been.
343 Guilty Spark you talk about "gray Jedi morals" which in and of itself is completely false, and THEN say you pretty much say that established canon is wrong. Lmao. Wow..... First of all, there's literally no such thing as a "gray Jedi" and there never HAS been. That is a made up term by fans dude. It has never once been used by Lucasfilm or even now by Disney, nobody. Gray Jedi do not exist. Dooku is not a "gray Jedi" whatsoever. He was disillusioned with the Jedi long before the clone war ever erupted. He was a full fledged Sith in every way. Period.
343 Guilty Spark I’m right there with you.
You are right. He tried to use the darkside for his cause but ended up being used by darkside. He was resisting it to a certain degree becauae his ultimate goal was peace.
There is a reason why Dooku doesn't have Sith eyes, the dark side for him is a tool. He sees what he does as a sacrifice for the greater good. If he has to manipulate and kill, he must do so for the sake of the future. Dooku's intentions were clearly pure. he intended to wipe out the corrupt Jedi Order, and wipe out the Republic. He wanted Obi.Wan to join him because Obi-Wan was the Padawan of his own Padawan, and because perhaps together with Obi-Wan a new Jedi Order could be made. I don't think Dooku realized just how evil and how corrupt Sidious was. I think Dooku would have joined the Rebellion if he was somehow magically ported to the OT time.
Someone else in their video said, that it was Dooku's intention to kill Sidious to avenge Qui Qon Jinn. Not just purify the Galaxy.
in the first pirates of the caribbean movie curse of the black pearl i think jack sparrow was talking to the 2 guys stuck on watch duty missing out on the party the truth of his plans for being there. 1 believed him while the other didn't. i think that the words to the conversation were ''i think he's telling the truth. if he was telling the truth he wouldn't have told us. unless he knew you wouldn't believe the truth even if he told it to you'' i am going by memmory since its been a while since seeing it
so basically dooku was telling the truth secretly knowing that he wouldn't be believed until it was to late for them to do much of anything
There is a slight issue here Dooku told obi-wan the dark lord of the sith was his enemy he never stated that he was his master.
Overall, Dooku was in a win/win situation: if Obi Wan does take him at his word, He gains an apprentice and trusted insider into the Jedi Order itself, allowing him an advantage over Sidious. If Obi Wan does not, this only serves to heighten the already delicate tensions between the Senate and the Order, further playing into him and Sidious’ plan (whom he can make an excuse to as that being his plot all along)
It’s actually quite genius
If Dooku really wanted to overthrow Sidious, he would have just said "Palpatine!"
He was giving clues by not being a snitch
He was being very careful to give away enough to tempt Obi Wan, but not throw all of his cards on the table at that moment.
Why did dooku never felt the same way about Anakin since he was Obi-Wan padawan just like Obi was Qui-Gon padawan they all are from the same tree
Because Anakin was emotionally unstable? And Obi-Wan was smarter, much cooler mind?
Sidious called dibs on Anakin, and Dooku probably saw him as a threat and rival because Sidious was so interested in him. And rightly so.
Dooku wanted to sew the seeds of mistrust among the Jedi, the Senate and the Republic. To do that he had to present a scenario that at least seemed plausible. What could be more plausible than what was actually happening?
Remember all of AOTC was Obi-Wan discovering things that were once hidden but now were meant to be found. He wasn't some great detective. He was being led down a path that could only end with Dooku revealing what he wanted to reveal.
What makes more sense to me is that he told obi won that so that he would think it's false. Not thinking the count would tell him anything but lies thus turning him off the scent.
I am insidious
-_- You puns are strong in the Force!
jar jar is sidious
Obi-Wan Kenobi I've seen you before
Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi you're my only hope
no, you're the senate
"Too old" Yet, Dooku was older still, even when he turned.
Real reason the rule of 2 my friend he wanted to become the dark lord of the sith and have Obi wan as his apprentice, Betrayal is the way of the Sith
Good theory. I always thought Dooku was trying to get the info to the Jedi council to increase the rift between the Jedi and the Senate. I would think that Palpatine would actually prefer Obi-Wan join the dark side as it would have made it easier for him to turn Anakin over. I also think he knew it was a lost cause but would have gladly accepted the feather in his cap. When you look at the "I am your father" theme that pervades the saga it kind of adds a new layer with Dooku as and evil father/grandfather figure to Obi-Wan. Good info, nice video.
Dooku realized at some point with his relationship to Sidious that he was a pawn rather than a true sith apprentice. You have mentioned that.
I think Dooku was trying to "save" Obi Wan from the events to come because of their relationship to Qui Gon (Anakin and the way things ended up turning out) Perhaps Dooku knew the grand plan of Sidious and the Sith and just totally did not want that. Clairvoyance through his strength in the force and being able to see the future could be another part of it.
The way I think of Dooku is that his motivations reflect Anakin's as in they are both trying to do good and the absolute best they can for the galaxy (Dooku) or Padme (Anakin) utilizing whatever means necessary including making the ultimate sacrifice, which in a Jedi's view would be: falling to the dark side.
Here's one...
Dooku was never a true believer in the Sith. He joined Sidius as a means to an end, not because he changed allegiance. If he WAS resigned to Sidius acting as emperor, maybe he saw in Obi Wan a chance for a better leader. Maybe, when he spoke of overthrowing Sidius, he was actually being genuine.
Obi Wan had the strength of character and had proven himself to be an independent thinker and willing to take independent action many times.
Maybe Dooku actually thought, for a moment, that he could put Obi Wan on the thrown as the Emperor.
Why wasn't Obi-Wan more tempted to join Dooku after learning these things? Maybe he didn't believe it? He doesn't seem tempted at all.
because "I don't believe you"
VivaMessico It is a mistake in belief what you want to believe and the truth was very uncomfortable for the Jedi Order..
Cause Jedi are always arrogant asses
Why didn't Obi Wan tell the Jedi counsel about Count Dooku revealing Palpatine's true identity as Darth Sidous dark lord of the Sith? The one they were looking for and they could have also did a blood test on the entire senate to see his midichlorian count making it fair.
Dooku only said that a Sith was in control of the Senate. He never said it was Palpatine. And a Jedi did want to do a Midichlorian test, but he told Palpatine, who obviously had him secretly killed.
Dooku said it was someone with control and influence over many Senators, he did not mention Palpatine. Although if you combine this info with Windu's later statement (The Dark Side surrounds the Chancellor), you'd think maybe the Jedi Council would have figured it out. A classic case of hiding in plain sight.
I think by RotS the Jedi suspected Palpatine, but with no proof they could not outright say for sure that Palpatine was the Sith and not one of his advisers or a influential Senator.
WashuHakubi4 Yep. When hearing that the senate was under the influence of this person, it's surprising Palpatine didn't come to mind, considering he was a perfect candidate for such an accusation
Frank Dees I guess you could say he was a bit in-Sidious.
what up SWReading Club... this was a good vid here... that def clears up Dookus hidden agenda for coming at Obi Wan the way he did... when I first saw that scene, it was a little confusing at first. like what u really up to Dooku?... so once again, we see Sidious in the background pulling the strings of how he wants shit to play out.. love him or hate him, but Sidious was def on top his master manipulation from the rip!.. from Asaj Ventriss to Savage, to even that goofy shit Maul called himself trying to do on Mandalor; nothing got pass the master manipulator & damm sure kept it that way.. shit, even the rebels attacking the 2nd Death Star, he had his hand in all that shit!.. Papa Palpi was a viscious dude!...
I always thought it interesting, this concept of Dooku being able to truly care for someone else, and I think it's really sweet that he thought of Qui-Gon as a son, which would make sense for him to see Obi-Wan as kind of like a grandson. Though when I first saw Attack of the Clones, I wondered if he was faking sadness when he said he wished Qui-Gon were still alive, just because he was a bad guy. LOL But now that I know more about his character, through seeing him in other media like the Clone Wars series, I like seeing this more complex character who's not just a power hungry Sith. In the Clone Wars series, Sidious asked Dooku to terminate Asajj Ventress at some point, and if I'm not mistaken, Dooku looked torn about it, which made me suspect that, even though he did try to get rid of Ventress as Sidious instructed, Dooku came to care for her as well. I actually wish that idea was more explored in all the media he was in, to hear more of his actual sentiments toward people like Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, and Ventress. I like the idea of exploring Dooku as more of a father/someone who wants to look out for those he cares about.
Do you find it interesting how prior Jedi turned Sith, always seemed to want to violate the rule of two, as a means to overthrow Palpatine? There was still good in Tyranus and Vader, but they were both seduced by the idea of a corrupt Republic, and they blamed the Jedi for the loss they experienced in their lives. That pain is what the Sith prey on, to derive their strength.
i have an objection concerning Dooku's motivation toward Kenobi. Obi-Wan Kenobi did not have much political value in the senate. At least, not as much as Mace Windu or Anakin, who was pushed by Palpatine himself.
Ki-Adi Mundi was an established diplomat and was well known and respected towards the senate. He wouldve been a much better candidate for Dooku (There are no indications that he didnt tried before, though)
Darth Tyranus more like Darth Tyrannosaurus Rex. Darth Sidious more like Darth Hideous.
Eugene Derry That's what I always used to say.
There is some evidence that indicates that Dooku did not realize that his master, whom he worked for to "advance" the cause of the Trade Federation, was also his enemy, Darth Sidious. He was unaware that his master and his enemy were the same person right until the final seconds of his life, when Anikin killed him. The fact was the Jedi Order was working to protect the Republic, as it was being taken over by the Sith lord by manipulating the corrupt senate, just as Dooku had said. It is possible Dooku was sharing his limited knowledge of the situation and did want Obi-Wan's help removing the Sith lord from the Republic. Dooku was working for the Trade Federation under the guidance of his two faced master. Dooku could just have been a pawn in a corrupt scheme by Sidious to take over the universe. The Jedi were just as clueless as Dooku, as nearly all of them were killed off, as the dark side of the force had clouded their vision. Nobody could sense the actions of the dark lord. He played them all and destroyed the senate, destroyed the Jedi council and destroyed Dooku and the Trade Federation and ended up having power and control over the new empire.
I love the content of these videos but your voice is so monotonous...............................
Do you mind me asking, where are you from? Singapore or something? Accent sounds that way. American twang, but Singaporean foundation. Irrespective of that, it's just the tone of voice dude, holy fuck! Charisma grows on trees, at least where I'm from (Charismaworld). Ken?
Dooku wanted Obi Wan to join because he inherited the beard. Qui Gon had one after all
I think Dooku knewed that the Jedi council is looking at him as a lier and betreyer and is reckogning on them not to belive him. And with that in mind it makes perfectly sense for him to tell the thruth to Obi. So what if he thinks Obi might have a chance to join him? The most important part here is that no matter how the battle of Genosis plays out his thruth would be taken as lies over in Coruscant and that is was matter. With that in mind it was a brilliant move on the Counts side to tell the thruth rather then revealing a lie. Johan.
or maybe he wanted to know if the jedi could sense things. this whole scene has many meanings.
This video in a nutshell:
The book says he wanted to use obi wan to bring legitimacy to his government
Bringing legitimacy to the new government would be helped by obi wan.
The book makes it clear, obi wan would bring legitimacy to the government.
Obi wan would aid him in making a cleaner government and I still need more ad revenue so let’s keep this going
The book says obi wan
Kinda obvious.
Earn his trust with truth.
That Does make Sense Awesome Video
I always thought Dooku told the truth about darth Sidious to create a sense of paranoia in the Jedi Order and have them lose trust in the governing body of the Republic and possibly cause them to look paranoid to the rest of the Senate making it even easier for him to justify having the Jedi killed
yes. it seems plausible but the jedi didnt act on it coz they were dragged into the clone wars/separatist movement which was a larger problem at the time.
Probably influenced how Dooku fought Obi, az well. He could have easily chopped off Obi'z limbz on Geonosis, like he didn't hesitate to do to Anakin, instead of simply disarming him...
Dooku did not say Palpatine was the sith lord just that a sith lord had control over the senate the sith having control could have been anybody
He told him because it was important to the plot of the film. *Bubble bursted*
Dooku thought that Sidious was eradicating the rule of two tradition of the Sith. That's why he was surprised Sidious didn't interfere with Anakin killing him.
Thanks I always wondered about this, thought maybe it was just to create mistrust in the republic/Jedi, but that always seemed like an odd way to go about it.
Love ur vids man!
Sith are more passionate,they care more
I just assumed he wanted to recruit Obiwan, so Dooku could eventually overthrow Sidious, just as Vader tried to recruit Luke for the same purpose. Sith are always stabbing each other in the back.
I never understood how Quigon a Jedi Master trained by all powerful Dooku trained by Yoda lost to Darth Maul a mere sith Marauder not Lord.
He underestimated Maul - they all did. Maul was an extremely gifted lightsaber duelist, and overall combatant. Combine that with an aggressive lightsaber style, and being much younger than Quigon, and you get a win for Maul. Obi-Wan beat Maul by tapping into the dark side.
Kinda connecting in a way.
Yoda trained count dooku, dooku trained Qui-Gon, Qui-qon trained obi-wan, Obi-wan trains Anakin.
So..Anakin killed technically one of his grand Masters.
Count Dooku was essentially correct about the Jedi.
From a certain point of view
Right, but I think also from an objective point of view in this case.
Very interesting thing to discuss
Speaking of Obi-Wan, how about that rumored Obi-Wan stand alone movie in 2020?
N10 Jaing I need have nothing to do with it if Kathleen Kennedy has her mitts on it
Betrayal is one of the sith tools to overtrown their masters, that is how sidious and many others before and after achieved what they desired.
Turn Obi-Wan, much easier to turn Anakin. Pretty obvious. Sidious knew Anakin's potential.
That might be part of the reasoning, but I think another, possibly larger reason would be the große Lüge technique that Adolf Hitler detailed in 'Mein Kampf', namely that by telling a lie so 'colossal' that no one would believe that someone, "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously..." Thus further shadowing Darth Sidious's plan. Yoda shows how well it worked when Obi Wan asked Yoda and Windu if what Dooku had said about their being a Sith Lord controlling large numbers of Senators, Yoda suggested that because they've found that Dooku had fallen, and could no longer be trusted, because he was a Sith, "Joined the Dark Side Dooku has. Lies, deceit, creating mistrust are his ways now..."
It was a very smart move I think , induce the doubt and more trouble concerning who the Jedi were working for.
Then all this war fought would only destabilize and weaken them harder.
And considering they weren't having daily encounters with Palpatine the slightest move/inquiry against the Senate would be labeled as treason (which very much happened in the end)
They were trapped from the start.
C'mon. You know why. He knew Obi-wan would never believe him anyway. Same reason Jack Sparrow told the guards what his intentions with the ship were in the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
By the time Geonosis was over and Obi-Wan was able to report Dooku's claims to the Jedi, Dooku had injured Obi-Wan, maimed Anakin, and dueled Yoda in earnest. He employed the noted Sith technique of Force lightning and enabled his escape by threatening the lives of two beaten and defenseless opponents. This after he had overseen a battle that killed dozens of Jedi. I don't see how the Jedi can be specifically blamed for not immediately investigating thousands of senators and their encourages when they were bring forced to defend billions of innocents from a war that would take place with or without them, on the word of someone who had displayed that level of untrustworthiness.
Dooku knew that Skywalker would best him and wanted Obi wan to undo his own apprentice to secure his own longevity! Sideous much like General Krell have a very high force foresight. I think much like maul's mind trick on Ezra in twin suns sideous showing Anakin padmes death was him baiting Darth Vader from inside of Anakin.
Let's not overlook the fact that even though what Dooku told Obi-Wan was true, he was still being deceptive. He knew that Palpatine was Sidious but he withheld that information. If he had any earnest intentions of destroying the Sith he could at least have revealed thstvhe was working with Sidious on the pretext that he was doing so solely to bring him down. Telling Obi-Wan about Sidious was a way to sow doubt in the Jedi to make them less likely to discover the truth, and possibly pull Obi-Wan away from them. The best way for someone who knows he's a suspected liar to manipulate his foe is to employ some truth knowing he won't be beleived.