The Showdown Between Labelle & The Supremes: Mary Wilson part 30
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- Labelle was an American funk rock band that originated out of the Blue Belles, a girl group who were a popular vocal group of the 1960s and 1970s. The original group was formed after the disbanding of two rival girl groups in the area around Philadelphia, in Pennsylvania, and Trenton, in New Jersey: the Ordettes and the Del-Capris, forming as a new version of the former group, then later changing their name to the Blue Belles (and further Bluebelles). The founding members were Patti LaBelle (born Patricia Louise Holt), Cindy Birdsong, Nona Hendryx, and Sarah Dash.
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I ❤️ The 70's Supremes! 💃💃💃
Mary, Cindy, Jean, Lynda, Scherrie, and Susaye were all sensational.
Happy Tuesday Nay, Lulu, Roro and commenters
Good morning Nay, Lu, Ro Ro, and everyone ❤
Alan Toussiant the same one that kept running from Etta James until she stalked him.😂😂
Morning Nay!!!! Tysm for the video. Mary is a HOOT! What she mean she can tell Pedro what to do….she also really thought Diane was still her friend!! LIKE SIS WAKE UP 😢
we ALL know back in the day, DIANA got caught up in her stardom/flying high. she looked down on EVERYONE/EVERYTHING. even the planet. 🤣
Good Morning Nay!!!
Have a wonderful day!
You have a bff in high school and after y'all graduate you move on and move away have a career, friends, a life. When you go back home old bff still doing the exact same things.. you don't have anything in common anymore.. you moved on. Mary lives in a dream world.
I think another dimension to this was that Diana's tenure with the Supremes ended ugly. Mary had a more vivacious and assertive personality than she describes in her books, and I absolutely believe Diana in Secrets of a Sparrow when she says that she was "tired of being talked about when my back wasn't even turned." After Florence left the group, I think Diana caught the brunt of Mary's bitterness and anger, which was the one thing Berry really couldn't buffer. After Diana left the group, I think Mary's relationship with Diana was non-existent for a while, and Diana probably didn't know exactly what to think when Mary started popping up a few years later.
Good morning nay 🎉
Of course there were fewer fans and reporters to meet the new Supremes at the airport. No one knew who Sherrie Payne was. Mary was the only original member left and Cindy had been gone and now returned. The revolving door of Supremes turned me off and by the time Sherrie came to the group I had dumped the Supremes. I was shocked that Jean and Lynda were gone and so that was the last straw. No one knew who the Supremes were anymore and I did not care anymore and was just disappointed. Mary should have left the Supremes when Diana left and shut the group down then. Mary still had some of the Supremes magic when Diana left and might have done better on her own rather than have to put up with the mean spirited Jean Terrell. Mary made so many bad decisions starting from when she did not support Flo at the meeting at the Gordy mansion. Mary should have known then that her power would dwindle considerably when she allowed Ross and Gordy to throw Flo out which enabled them to change the name of the group to Diana Ross and the Supremes without opposition.
I always wonder why some fans were turned off by the lineup changes in the Supremes when the Temptations went through so many -- more than the Supremes -- and still managed to keep fans and stay relevant.
@@lecuyerdooley1084 Otis was a better hustler, businessman and talent scout. And he’d preview the replacing Tempts for audiences to get used to them until that specific lineup clicked and also they had producers who knew what to do with them so that’s why the Temptations continued as a very active recording act up until now. Plus Otis could easily get hipped to the then current trends of the eras (psychedelic soul in the late 60s, funk in the 70s, smooth contemporary soul in the 80s, 90s and 00s. The Whispers survived like that too though no match to the Tempts’ longevity.
She didn’t allow Flo to be thrown out. Berry and Diana’s mind was made up before they told Mary (which was more of a formality than asking her for her opinion)
@@dchi2012 Agree! Flo's mother said that Mary wanted Flo in the group, and Mary was honest in saying that Flo's behavior didn't suggest that she wanted to be in the group. But even if Mary had said unequivocally that Flo was a Supreme and must stay, Berry Gordy would have fired her anyway. Mary never held the kind of power people ascribe to her when they say that she "allowed" Flo to be fired. The only that she could have done was not show up herself in protest ... and then she would have been replaced, too.
@@lecuyerdooley1084 It depends. When the Supremes became famous it was Mary, Florence and Diana. It was those three that created the magic. When the Temptations first became famous in 1964 I learned all of their names and I knew who sang what part. When David Ruffin was removed from the Temptations and then Eddie Kendricks left I lost interest in the Temptations as individuals as they became more of a concept, like Menudo. I bought Menudo records but I did not know who they were individually because I knew Menudo was a concept. The Temptations became a concept that succeeded as such. If you see the very long list of names of people who eventually became Temptations you will see that the Temptations became just that...a concept that worked just like Menudo. As far as the Supremes, Mary, Florence and Diana were very identifiable and I was not willing to let such a stellar group become just a concept which Mary eventually led the group to be.
Mary continuing to pursue a relationship with Diana knowing that chick didn’t like her was so delulu.
Mary should have leveraged her looks to marry better and go into her soft life era.
@@katrinaj7173 Mary was a deluded optimist. Even until she passed, she thought she had a friendlier bond with Diana than she actually had with her.
@@timmy841212 You'd be surprised. There is a LOT of information you are not privvy to.
No reason for Diana to be rude and act a fool. And since when is visiting someone twice a year, "pursuing a relationship" ?
Going by what you had read the problem with Mary was she didn’t have leadership abilities nor a vision for where the direction the group should go. Patti Labelle group revamped themselves though experimenting with imaging themselves with the different trends of the 70s. The Supremes were still stuck in the long gown image of the 60s a style that was even passe by the mid 60s with female groups wearing mini skirts and go go boots adapting to long hair or afros and Belle bottoms and funky blouses of the 70s. Mary had a nice sultry voice but always felt the need to be led by the hand and not taking control of her own destiny. She should had found a producer, reimaged herself, and went solo in the early 70s and let the Supremes go. You were right about Diana. She is a leader and knew what direction that she wanted to go. Everyone doesn’t have that gift even in groups or teams. There is nothing wrong with it.
Also Patti Labelle and the Bluebelles did not have so many personnel changes like the Supremes eventually did. After Cindy left Patti Labelle I don't think they even replaced her. It was always Patti, Nona and Sara. So I think they had more of a chance to comeback than the Supremes did with their numerous personnel changes. Also why did Diana join a group in the first place? Even Diana's father remarked that Diana was not nor was she ever a group oriented person. She should have pursued a solo career from the beginning like Mary Wells or Brenda Holloway instead of leading Mary and Florence on that she was a group person and had a hidden agenda of eventually pursuing a solo career behind their backs.
@Jack-ke5uv Flo and Mary were the backup vocals the made Diana's lead sound great especially under the leadership of Holland Dozier Holland. Once Diana left the Supremes were dead in the water because the group lost both Flo and Diana. Had Flo stayed, the Supremes could had still be on top with a new third person and a new look or image for the 70s. Flo nor Mary didn't have that father in their lives while they were at the top of the charts to advise them as Diana father was still in her life.
@Jack-ke5uv Diana was the go to person of the group. An outgoing persona that crossed over and well received by many. She had a terrific offstage fashion taste outside of the ball gowns that the group were forced to wear throughout the sixties. I do give her props. Gordy only had a one track mind for Diana and didn't care to build on the group's potential. Flo could had done more opraratic gospel sounding lead songs while Mary sang more sultry jazzy bluesy like lead songs. Diana could had sang lead on the more mainstream crossover songs and still could had went into the movie industry. However that would had been too much for Berry to achieve or want to.
I have been saying in comments to these videos that Mary certainly had the drive to reinvigorate the Supremes, but not really knowing what sent the Supremes soaring into the stratosphere in the 60s, she didn't know how to replicate that kind of success. Mary was a participant in something spectacular, but she did not write or produce any of the songs, nor did she define the signature sound of the group like Berry did when he made Diana the lead singer.
The most significant thing Mary could have done in the early seventies was to tight fist that 100 grand payout she got from Motown in 1970 or 1971. Mary saw some of the other super groups from the 60s fall off, but she kept spending money like things would never change for the Supremes.
Martha Reeves said that Barry told her around the time The Jackson 5 started popping off that his new direction for Motown was towards "self-contained groups." In the 70s, The Supremes were still tied to Motown's staff writers and producers, when they could have done a lot more to find, produce, and record their own hits and they could have Beyonce'd themselves some writer-producer credits too.
But tragically, the Supremes didn't have the wherewithal to A&R themselves in the 70s.
@Tes7000 Berry Gordy still had tight control of groups creativity in the late 60s early 70s. The Temptations had a hard time getting Cloud 9 released on the label. Marvin Gaye had a hard time with his hit Whats going on to be released on the label. Susan de Passe had molded the Jackson 5s image to the groovy outfits they had worn on their first appearance on the Ed Sullivan Show. Gordy finally relented when he saw that his Sound for Young America crossover concept was waning by the late 60s. I was surprised when he let the Supremes perform their song Love Child in sweatshirts, leather outfits, and jeans on the Ed Sullivan show in 1969 let alone on their album cover.
Thumbs up.
Mary is making everyone look good. Berry told her about Jean.. she didn't listen.. Jean dragged the group down.. Berry told her about Pedro.. she didn't listen.. they doing dive bars and Pedro spending faster than they could earn it.
I have such mixed feelings about Jean. I don't think she dragged the group down, and in fact, I think she was exactly the right lead singer to replace Diana. However, I believe Jean was every bit as combative as Mary says she was, but the problem was that Jean was right about . . . everything.
This isn't mentioned in Supreme Faith, but someone commented in an earlier video in this series that in the fall of 1972, Mary had agreed with Jean and Lynda to leave Motown if Motown wasn't doing right by the group. Mary got cold feet and reneged on that agreement, and that was the real source of the contention between Mary and the other two ladies.
@@Tes7000Not to mention if she left Motown, she would have to leave “The Supremes” name behind, she was a**ed out..
A thousand excuses for Diane's nasty behavior, incredible!.......smh
Ross is nasty.
What nasty behavior?
@@Jack-ke5uvjust ask Martha Reeves if you want to know how nasty Mary Wilson is
Yes, just disgusting!!!, she maybe able to fool her fans, but pretty soon she gonna have to answer to God, and he can't be fooled or slept with.
@TahariBlue what exactly has she done that is so evil that God himself will punish her for all eternity?
I've heard of Singers hunchin' or marrying their managers, but not the Husband becoming manager! xo
Oh, Flo did that... so did Helen Reddy, Celine, and Mary J. Blige.
...so did Mary Wells,& Wendy Williams comes to mind.😳🙄I'm sure there's plenty more..
@@phillycheez6288 Yes!! so true
😂ever since Mary failed to use her influence/voice I would always look at her on TV interviews/music shows and say to myself she's always popping up on stage but it felt awkward,like she was really invited but they let her save face!🤷🏾♀️🤦🏽♀️😂
The reason why I said it’s kind of mixed emotions to me because at the same time they are still relevant. The Supremes are still holding number one group of all time nobody’s coming to the title to this era in 2025. Nobody has beat that title at all so Mary was not lying even though they died out they never Got replaced on that slogan the number one girl group they still are holding that title to this day paddle LaBelle. Nobody else isn’t in the outcomes of Tammy and other artist who could’ve joined the Supremes could’ve been extraordinary.
I wonder why The Supremes didn’t fair better with line up changes to public opinion??especially since The Temptations had many group changes since 1966. And they kept their place with fans 🤔 I do think they should have left Motown and had gone to another label possibly Philly International or Buddah Records.
After Jean left the group, I think the lineups fundamentally changed the sound and look of the group. Scherrie Payne was gorgeous and a fantastic singer, but her voice was a departure from the sweet sopranos of Diana and Jean. She was also short compared to the other Supremes, so the lineup looked different. When Cindy was fired in 1976, she was replaced with another petite singer with the outcome that Mary ended up towering over her groupmates.
Based on how things worked out at Motown, I absolutely think Mary should have left with Jean in the summer/fall of 1973. With Lynda on her way to maternity leave, Jean-Mary-Cindy should have reconvened at another label. One particular advantage that is overlooked in the Supreme Faith was that Mary's contract had expired in 1973, and Mary could have left and identified herself as _Mary Wilson of The Supremes,_ which could have been a very important link for the new group at another label.
Oh Mary is so delusional my God 😂
that's MOST of them brother. 🤣
@ 😂😂😂
The live "Star Spangled Banner" performance can be found on RUclips. They sounded great. Scherrie-Mary-Cindy had a great blend, much better blend than Scherrie-Mary-Susaye.
Re: Jean and Allen Toussaint -- Jean could have asked Toussaint to produce for her own benefit, not Mary's. Her pocket book as a Supreme was in just as bad (probably worse) a shape than Mary's in those days. I don't think Toussaint would have made a difference, certainly not the difference he made with Labelle. "Lady Marmalade" was not a song the Supremes would record; it wasn't their style. Plus, that magic only lasted with that one album (Nightbirds) and that one song ("Lady Marmalade"). He produced their next album (Phoenix) and later Patti's last solo album for Epic Records (Released), but neither album contained a recognizable hit.
Mary needed to get a tough skin for the business she’s in ! Smh 🤦♀️
I heard this beef between them got ugly, Patti was about to drag Diana for copying their outfits chile😂😂
😂😅 sidebar;and Diana stole Martha and the Vandellas outfits, not the same style, the actual outfits and went out on stage before them so they couldn't even wear them at that point!🤷🏾♀️🤦🏽♀️🤣Martha was hot about that stunt!🔥
@ Oh yeah that’s exactly what happened, it’s been a few years since I heard the story🤣
LaBelle was SMART, kept up with the times.
@@GnarlsBarkley123 but labelle didn’t last as long as the Supremes
Mary don't get it!?!🙄🙄🙄
First your story about your husband as your manager sounds like Flo's. Disaster City
Second Barry don't care no more. The goose that laid the golden egg was gone.
No relaunch with the Supremes!!
Third Cindy road high on the Supremes wave and low tide was coming.
Pattii and Labelle re invented themselves. What goes around comes around.
Mary and Flo were really similar one knows its over but no real plan
The other Flo kicked out no real plan sorry men who used and abused them.
Diana survived and thrived The Boss
Today this industry is the same and worse.
There was no girl group that could touch the Bluebelles/LaBelle on the vocals
@@nutinman4u but they only had one major hit and they rode on that til they broke up
@dchi2012 ...it's not all about hits.
Even without a hit the Bluebelles would sing circles around the Supremes on any day or stage
@ at the end of the day it didn’t make a difference. Patti and company had killer vocals but the only had one big hit to show for it. And the Supremes end up lasting longer than Labelle
@dchi2012 both groups broke up in 1977
I think Pedro was bi
Gurl why
@@SocialExhaustion What?
@@timmy841212 just a lot of signs point to him being a DL man. His entire behavior
I prefer LaBelle over The Supremes
Diana Ross can't touch Patti Labelle with a 10 foot pole.