room shape more than size. if you are lucky to have a shoebox-shape room with nice linear mode distribution, you can place 2 subs in a 1/4 3/4 configuration. This more often than not results in an excellent bass response up to ~90-100Hz. Two subs are a good starting point, with a single sub in my experience it's nigh impossible to find placement where you won't have more than one prominent null and solid output. I am quite lucky with my room, it is a 4.8x3.5x2.4m shoebox.
Regarding the Kaleidescape...my issue personally isn't the upfront cost. It is the per-movie cost. Call me weird, but I don't mind paying to buy the unit. But I don't want to think "is this movie worth $20 to watch?'. I know I am "unique" but something to think about. Great session tonight; thanks guys!
Nice analogy youthman: 20 years ago (I was 18 yo...) I've made the mistake of "instant gratification". I compromised, due to lack of finances, and wanted a complete 5.1 system and bought utter garbage from Phillips. I should have started with an AVR and decent stereo pair, than the sub, than the rears and lastly the center (5.1). And thats how you should start. Dont try to buy all of it at once, when you dont have the proper ressources of course. Start with the AVR and stereo speakers -> subwoofer -> surroundspeakers -> center -> surround backs -> front heights -> rear heights -> 2nd subwoofer. 7.2.4 system DONE!
Hi have two BIC F12, love them. It rock my living room. Sometimes can slam. But really fact. Can't really go higher. Live in an apartment. So have my limit. Don't want a war with neighbors. Have two made a difference. Thanks for the video.
I have a pretty standard sized living room. I've been running a pair of 8" bookshelf speakers with a huge single 12" sub and it seems to be overkill. It's like the sub cant breath like there's not enough space for it to stretch its legs. I recently downgraded to a 10" with less amplifer power and it sounds MUCH better. Mind you it doesn't have the power and the depth of the 12" but it's barely noticeable. Im looking to add a second 10" and Im hoping it'll sound more complete, more full.
I currently have 1 big sub (for the room) sitting right next to the MLP and 1 small sub behind the TV to supplement the bass for the RP-400 bookshelves. I’ll eventually snag an SVS Micro 3000 and hide in the front left corner to help fill in the nulls.
I have a UM18 in a full marty. I retired it and use two separate UM12s and they satisfy me more than the 18. Smoother bass, less port chuffing (Because I designed my box so I could make a proper port vs the full marty that chuffs a lot at low frequencies) and surprisingly better extension. I have a rising bass response that gets louder the lower I play and starts to roll off at 15Hz. Basically flat to 16Hz. I run them in a NU3000DSP but I'd recommend a better amp that has more power. It's anemic and personally don't believe any dyno results I've seen on it. It sounds distorted or starts to at 25v per channel. (Around 150w into 4 ohm in my case)
I'm in the UK, I had a dali 12 inch which hit relatively nice but had two fail on me with poor sealing on the cabinet. I did some more research and got two svs pb 1000's and they shake the house. Not as boomy as the dali but the bass is nice and clean. I also benefitted by the low 20hz range. Couldn't be happier.
@@johnbancroft5242my neighbours asked me to not watch films or play movies the other month, this was because they were going on holiday. I'm detached with double glazing.
I am planning to buy four BIC PL-300s which are the newer big brother to the PL-200. 350 watts RMS and 1400 watts peak power. BIC claims they go down to 15hz. I didnt believe it at first but I have seen two different measurements from independant owners which showed it actually did reach down to 15hz or 16hz, so I figure four of them will do the trick. Should have no problem reaching beyond reference level with four of them.
When I grew up in the 80's big speakers were the thing and at age 15 I spent a small fortune on two Cerwin Vega D9's. (15" 3 way system). Later companies like Bose really started pushing small speakers with "big sound" but never did they sound as good to my ears. Bigger is really better, I have a small room and RF7's now hooked up with 1000's of watts, I rarely turn anything up past 10% of it's potential but a speaker not being overdriven just sounds better. I've been looking at building some subs using the Dayton 18" drivers to pair up with my RF7's, currently I'm using my old vegas with the 15's for bass. They've been out of stock forever though.
@robwasnj they may still make good speakers. I know they did back in the 90s but that was the only decade that we heard about them so they’ve done a terrible job at marketing so no one knows except for people that have owned them since then.
The small speaker trend started because women had more disposable income and companies like Bose started focusing on aesthetics over sound in order to sell to women in shopping malls.
The million dollar question,the setup would be tidier if i just put a big sub behind the TV but of course you will sacrifice smoothness across the room.
It depends on what the person needs and the specific subs. For example, if a sub has next to no outout at 16hz...adding more wont help vs a bigger one that has great output down low
Doubling the speaker count will increase volume by 3 dB. You can ignore the room gain unless your room was anechoic chamber before doubling the speakers and a normal room afterwards.
great video guys.....i went and orderd 2 mach 5 audio 18 inch subs..they are sitting in the boxes waiting for me to build the full martys..for me DIY was cheaper for me to get 18s then it was to buy 18s already built...i just have to go buy the wood ...im not using flat packs.....
Great Livestream tonight! At the end somebody asked about in wall speakers and having their sofa right up against the wall and you mentioned about an in wall speaker or a wide dispersion speaker. I'm in a similar boat, my sofa is about 8 inches from the wall, so not quite right up on it but close. I have Klipsch reference premiere speakers but need to go in walls for my surround back. Should I get ones with the dual opposing tweeters for a wide dispersion or is 8 inches away from the wall far enough for just a normal in wall speaker? Looking at the Klipsch R-5650W II vs the R-5650S II.
As for line conditioners, Audiolab makes a DC Block $125-150 that removes stray DC currents from your AC power. Absolutely makes an audible difference when used on amplifiers. I have 3 of them. It makes the sound more incisive. But if you had exceptionally clean power maybe you wouldn't hear a difference.
38:15 The BASKET Frame size is the marketing gimmick: Monolith 13inch subs are mounted in a normal 15inch frame. Monolith 16inch mounted in a normal 18 inch frame Typical 15inch speaker is only 13-13.5 inch cone area. My car Subs measure for cone-13.5 inches, but are 15's. What manufacturers did was use the Basket frame size to say 15 or 18's which sounds bigger. So the Monolith are typically more accurate, and it would be the other companies that are using the so called marketing gimmick. So a JTR would likely be a 16_5/8 inches. You can check any speaker mounting depth and see this is true, An 18inch Sundown (car Sub) Cut-out depth is 16.69 inches, The outer diameter is 18.42 inches. The sub cone area is about 16.5 inches.
So I have 2 subs. Just added the second one about 4 months ago. It really made a dramatic difference. Initially I thought it wpuld just be better bass. My first impression was how the sound field seemed to open up. There was more atmosphere. One sub an SVS SB3000 is connected to the LFE. The other is a REL T7X conne ted directly to the center channel via high pass connection on the sub. They work well together. I'm no audiophile but I do think the rel is faster than the svs.
Congrats on the second sub. I’m a huge advocate for using multiple subs. I have heard many describe bass as fast or slow but this is a myth that has been passed down for many years. Google Fast vs Slow Bass. Lots of great articles on the subject. I’ve had people say that smaller woofers are faster than larger woofers, which is not true. It all comes down to design and components, not size of the driver.
I see this question alot so thanks for the detailed answer. I would love to know your opinion on perlisten dual d12i Vs the d215??? Or even D12 Vs some bigger in subwoofer.
What about if you were picking between an JTR 4000ULF vs two JTR Captivator 2400's? Would you get more output from having 2 and being able to position them different areas of room? Or is having the bigger tower and space bigger with the 2 drivers inside?
With a 2880 sq-ft living room, I bought a SVS PB2000 5 years ago. It sounded impressive, but you can definitely tell where the bass is coming from. Fast forward to a month ago, I bought a SVS PB3000 to add to my system. At lower to mid volumes, the main improvement was, I could no longer tell where the bass is coming from. Compression improved very little. At louder volumes, the higher compression becomes a great deal more noticeable. As a home theater sub, for general use, the PB2000 did fine by its self. It impressed everyone that heard it. As an autistic man that really enjoys great sounding equipment played at live levels, adding the PB3000 made a significant improvement. My point is, most people have tin ears and almost never listen to volumes higher than mid-levels; the second sub is a waste for them. Only a sound coinsure really would notice or care about the difference. The truth of the matter is, you are buying that second sub mostly for your own enjoyment. Less than one person out of 20 would notice a difference.
i have 1 b&w bd4s in living room used for music mostly but works equally well for movies, i can’t imagine what it must be like if it were 15” or i had 2 of them. i am more than satisfied with the single b&w 10”, it was a bit expensive; $2k
Hello Youthman. I’ve been hanging out with your channel and in different forums. I’ve never commented before but I just want you to know it’s been enjoyable watching your platform grow to where it is. Outstanding! Keep up the great work in providing the home theater enthusiast updated and informed on the hobby. About the subwoofer choice configuration, it’s so room dependent not to mention budget restraints, if any. I currently use a 2 sub setup, however, they are completely different designs. One is a dual drive design (Klipsch RSW10) and the other is a Sunfire True Sub TSEQ10 Solitaire. My room is 14 x 12 and they are positioned in between the towers and the AV lowboy stand. With the help of Audyssey room correction (Marantz pre-pro), I’ve been able to achieve balanced low end performance. Neither sub would be considered a show stopper, but due to room size, and living in a condo, I get no complaints from neighbors and the performance is acceptable.
@@Youthman pls advise!! Am planning to take take subwoofer,should I go for one pb4000 or two pb 2000 pro....pls advise...or Now am Using B&w Db4s 10 inch sub...should I add one more Db4s sub ...My room is 6.5 mtr x 4 mtr.....pls advice.....
@@Youthman I plan to do HT for my uncle. And no he not gonna upgrade by adding one thing at a time like adding second SUB or even more Surround speakers.Once set and done the only thing be upgraded is the TV. And he be using the audio setup for Decade or more. So which will be better. 2 x 15/16" or 1 x 18/21"
I’m just getting into surround sound setup. I don’t have a big budget right now, so I went with nakamichi 7.2.4 which has 2 8” subs. It’s an 800 watt system which will used in my living room. I figure it’s a good entry into the hobby. My new house has 3 bedrooms and eventually 1 bedroom will be turned into a dedicated theatre room. These videos are great! I love getting ideas and seeing other peoples theatre rooms. The guy with the Harry Potter room is about the same size room that I will be using.
Yea man! What’s a good website to research speakers? And where is a good website to buy used equipment? Is there a dedicated website for used equipment?
I know that saying about there is no replacement for displacement, but JTR are not sold in my country, price to import to Europe is crazy. Was always with the impression that anyone can do home cinema, I wish to buy them but $10k for dual ulf4000 is crazy and the hard part is how will I manage to fit those beasts in an 11ft by 16ft room? Sometimes one has to consider everything, I love big bass, I live in an apartment of 6 families that's the first issue. Second I need dual or more since tried 1 large sub I have places where bass is crazy and places where bass was gone. I prefer to stick to 2 small subs for money reasons and for placement reasons, but still I know that the bigger the better when it comes to subs and I fully agree.
Michael, I enjoy watching your videos. Especially love your passion for one of my favorite hobbies. Curious, you have reviewed the PSA S3012 and the Monolith 16 in your home theater. Understanding every room is different, if you had to pick only one, or in my case a pair, would you pick the PSA 3012 or the Monolith 16?
I have not reviewed the S3012 but I’m a fan of dual opposing subs, and especially when they are designed and built by Tom V from Power Sound Audio. In room response down to 7 Hz with no worries of port chuffing. Looks like a killer sub.
Duals and in the largest size you can stomach. Having went through a slew of subs, I now know duals, minimally is the way to go. Unless you have a small listening area.
For me I have a room that's 50 ft long 40 ft wide width 12 ft ceilings I put in 8 small heavily powered subwoofers 8 to 12 in you don't need anything larger than that if you're going to spend three or four grand on subwoofers why not buy 8 subwoofers in about 300 a piece rather than one or two subwoofers at 20000 a piece it's all about evening and spreading the sound around the room room to feel and hear the boomin vibration that you really want,..
I have a Marantz 11.2 system with the Klipsch reference speakers and two sb 3000s , one pb 1000 with the port plugged and a martin logan dynamo 700 which is sealed as well (7.4.4) The room is around 15 x 20 and very dead with heavy drapes, big furniture and thick carpet, I am a big fan of action movies and music and im very happy with the tight bass from these subs in this small to medium size room. The sb 3000s are a smaller sub with big punch in a smaller room. The sp 1000 is bigger than the sb 3000s and the Matin Logan is the smallest with a very surprising punch. Subs are daisy chained.
I've 2 SVS-B4+ subs, each powered by a 3000watt Crest mono power amplifier. These things are monsters! Each sub contains 4x 12inch drivers in push/pull mode with 4 bass ports that I can fit my entire arm into. they come with port bungs to help tune the bass to the room. They are capable of literally moving the foundations of our detached house. our cats refuse to be in the same room as them. They are TRUE subwoofers as they both drop well below 20Hz with huge SPL. at full chat, they can induce nausea and literally feel like they remove the air from your lungs! The tunnel explosion in the film Daylight, the pod race scene in Star Wars The Phantom Menace, the asteroid bombardment of New York in Armageddon and the depth charge scene in U-571 are awesome subwoofer demo pieces and the B4's lap them up. they're great with music, too.
I got 6 klipsch r 12 sw subs on sale and a couple of them open box for less then $1200 and am looking for 2 more for a total of 8 for a 16 x 20 x8 room.
After watching this and listening to portions of this program I tend to have an opinion about each section that I'm watching and this has to do with the price of speakers what you're buying what you're buying it for size of the room comfortable listening levels for you so if you're listening to let's say nine inch nails you are going to purchase something like the Klipsch Tower series or the SVS Tower series or the Aaron doll Tower series which are really really nice if you can afford four of them for a large room.. this is kind of what I do I've been auditioning speakers since 1972 for friends and acquaintances and people who want something without having to go shop for it I really enjoy shopping for electronics and I know prices I know all of it so.....
I have one 150 watt 10" I run at 50-55%ish volume crossed over at 120 Hz through my AVR......I think I NEED another....... I REALLY want two 8" Paradigm V8's!!!! Place them about 16 feet apart at the front of my space (can't do opposite corners because the left side of my viewing space is open. Thank goodness I have a post in perfect placement for my left ATMOS speaker 😂) They'd compliment my Paradigm Monitor SE6000F's NICELY I think!
I am running a single UM18-22 off a Crown xls1005 and want a little more output. I'm wondering if I add another UM off the same amp, would I get more output?
This is a VERY HIGH END SOUNDBAR put out by Pro Audio Technology (Parent Company). They make them in different lengths. This isn't a regular sound bar. It costs $$$ Thousands.
Been wanted to post my for a month. Great video again. Love your explanation about displacement it's great. Also when you spoke about the experience of 8 small subwoofer. I'm one that spoke in the past about BIC F12. Had looked with my budget, these were the best I found. Saw some videos about two subwoofer is even better. So went for two, don't regret. Like the look. When received them was surprised wasn't actual sliver metal put "plastic " Tomme look cool. It's does make a huge difference to what I had before. I put them on Pyle foam. They do serve has for my stands for my tower's. Have but some anti slip material so tower's don't move. Since have very small living room. It does shake walls. But took care of skake on walls etc. Has I want the effects of the subs but hear all the movies sound effects. You got me curious, with the slap on chest, etc you mentioned. But two bigger subs, cost, would put my tower's higher which would be bad. Oddly my tower's tweeters are at ears level. Plus have two small speakers that kind of act like front wide speakers. So higher to towers would block their sound. Plus bigger subwoofer, might run in fight with neighbors, may be break some of their stuffs by vibration. So seems in case to be a no-no ;-) Kind wishes I could do it. Because you and some other RUclipsrs you speak of they love of the experience it gives to movie experience. What you miss of the movie tracks. Remember my movie experience in theater in the 1980 for Star Trek Undiscovered Country. At the very beginning of the movie. When a mining moon collapse. Boy was dead on center on the balcony, boy slap in the chest!!! Let me tell you after that was trying to seat about in same seats area. Nice when you break down some of those long Sunday post. Hate BIC 300 than they really look plastic. Instead of looking copper, it looks like salmon color. Plus reading comments they port make noize again annoying for movie or music Again love my BIC F12, if they would be very at music would be better. Do listen to music with them. Just set my Yamaha receiver to a different mode. Be curious hear to a subwoofer that's good at it. Cheers, 100000 subscribers soon.
If you want good bass extension and accurate playback of 20 Hz with any volume level, you cannot use a small sub in practice. Nobody can create accurate playback of 20 Hz with a small subwoofer. You want enough audio power to be able to reproduce 20 Hz with whatever volume level you want to use and then add DSP processing to handle the standing waves in the room. Having two subwoofers is typically better for standing waves but you cannot get 2 so small subs that you cannot reproduce enough audio power at 20 Hz. It's okay to send mono signal and use one DSP processor for two subs because the wavelength for low frequencies is so low. You should use some DSP that can fix group delay in addition to frequency response. I'm using Dspeaker 8033 and it's working fine. A DSP processor + cheaper sub that can still emit 20 Hz is much much better option than more expensive sub without a DSP.
I have two 12" subs; SVS PB-2000 and Hsu Research, and they're very similar. Now, I wish I'd just gone for two of the Monolith 10" subs. I only use them for music and the occasional games, so more than that is unnecessary I think, though they're in a very small room so lots of issues that the dual 10" would have likely solved.
Having a 12" sub in this room causes massive nulls, no matter where I put the sub, so perhaps a smaller sub would work. Or, I might need a sealed sub to match the sealed aDs 910s.@@MusicStillRules
My opinion: Never go smaller than a 12" sub. After that it becomes more specific. Budget, size of room, focus for one seat or multiple, "wife factor"/astetics, level of knowledge for efficiency (REW, MiniDsp...). I chose four 12" svs ported because I host a big family gathering movie night every week & the price fit my budget. Also, I have a MiniDsp & I am well versed with REW (-3db @17.5hz). I have 2 settings for my subs: 1 for big gatherings & 1 for just me. My choice for subs accomplished my goals & it gives me time to save money for the next level. *I do wish I had sealed subs though. I listen to a lot of music and (generally) I think they sound better with music.
@@tvolkman88 I actually have 3 config settings. 1- just for me watching/listening, 2- for me & my wife, 3- for family. I manually dialed them in for the first two. For the 3rd I did use MSO because I had to tune them for six seats.
Could you do some in depth coverage of the: Home Theatre Sound bar from Pro Audio Technology (Atlanta, GA). I think a decent system would have around 4-twin 18 inch subs from JTR.
1 should be enough if you do the subwoofer crawl and your homes architecture is built for maximum acoustic performance provided tge subwoofer plays down to 20hz
1 subwoofer is enough if you only have one seat. If you have more than one seat, it’s VERY likely you will have bulls in other seats.The subwoofer crawl is flawed. Thanks for a new video idea. 😉
Maybe used as a side venture.I remember reading the Velodyne sub thread on AVS some years ago and there was all sorts of confusion going on as to faults and customer service. I have had mine for some years and never had a problem. It’s def not short on Quality and power.One more would be fantastic. Bloody expensive though.
I have 2 PB3000 subs. I've always wanted bigger subs, especially PB16s. I really just care about the punch in the chest feel, so will 4 PB3000 equal the output and chest punch like 2 PB 16s? I really don't want to hassle with selling wait time.
Definitely a myth that has been circulated for decades. Think about it, the speed at which a subwoofer moves is what creates the frequency it plays so if it’s playing slower, it would technically play a lower frequency than it should, and that’s just not the case.
I'm a fan of big subs, I rather start with one large sub. then upgrade to second later on. i have 2 monolith 15s. started with one and got another a ur later. at the same time I was able to lower the gain on both vs having one having the gain cranked to its max potential.
Ohh my god buddy I have 1 monolith 15 and i just want to ask you how is the power with 2 monoliths and also how the quality? You can hear things that you never hear before because i want to order the second 😊😊😊 pleasee tell me
@@kuriakos36 there is always a big difference from 1 vs 2 no matter what size. it's the fullness in the room and not knowing where the direction it's comming from. the quality is the same but added infrasound pressure in the room what impresses me the most especially for the price of these. I never felt the Low end frequency in my vehicle vs these being in my home. I have a small imprint where these sit. if you love bass adding another one wouldn't be a problem because you can always turn it down, but I rather be scared to turn it up.
How about 2 vs 4? I am considering 2 big or 4 small subs. Budget is fairly open ended, but I can't fit 4 big boxes in the room. I read that 4 subs in corners get a coupling effect to increase output.
4 subs in the corners will give you the highest output but probably will sound bloated/muddy. First, you have to know if you are a sound quality guy (me) or are you after max output? SQ=REL, Rythmik Output=SVS, JSL Audio Music=sealed Movies=vented Having 2 large subs will give you a ton of output, even response AND placement flexibility. The fact your room isn't big enough for 4 large subs suggests you don't need 4 anyway.
@@bearclaw5115thanks! The room could fit 4 large ones, but they'd be in wonky places, which would not help seat to seat consistency. And when going 4, I would want 4 corners for the coupling effect. Brand wise I'd be looking at stuff available in Europe like Arendal, Elac, XTZ or maybe some US brand like SVS. Why are sealed subs better for music? Is it because of the lower group delay? That should only matter below the ported subs ports tuning frequency, and basically no music goes that low.
Michael, you should check out Huntsville, Al for your next MWAVE. There are plenty of places to hold the event (the VBC would be good), and you're boy Erin could get you hooked up with the right people. Or message me and I can help ya out.
@@Youthman Sweet! Not sure the last time you've been here, but it definitely has grown. Also, The Westin would be a good choice as well, they have a large conference center. A lot of expos are held there.
i have 2 um18's in denovo cube 18 boxes. im running them off of a older crown ce4000. i absolutely love them for sure. they sound excellent and the bass is crisp and clear. the bass is also quick. im very happy with this setup. id much rather build my own sub over purchasing pre made stuff. imo the diy stuff far outperforms the commercially made stuff by far. the um18 is very effortless thats for sure. like you i wanted the impact from subs. i had a rsl 12s and tthat thing was absolute garbage. impact was literally 0. then when comparing sound quality and bass clarity is an even bigger joke. i buy subs to not only hear but feel the bass. rsl is not anywhere near as good. the 12s was so bad i returned it. id also put money on a um12 will def outperform the rsl guaranteed. i will say i could def get 2 more um 18's for even more impact. my room is 18x15x9. id say id you want impact def go for the biiggest you can afford. id still say go diy though as there is no substitute. if you cant cut the wood for cabinet. simply go to a local cabinet guy and have them cut it for you. there is no reason to spend the insane money on these flat packs that only use 1-at best 2 sheets of mdf. you also do not need the insane bracing some of these companies have in their flat packs. thats literally just a waste. it is literally unnecessary, that is only done to give you the perception your getting your moneys worth. it also makes some people think thats the kind of bracing you need. i bought my subs used for a steal. thats the only reason mine are made with flat packs. yes im going to build my own boxes as well. im going to build a box thats tuned to 16hz. i also will be adding 2 more in the future. id also like to add that my subs are indeed stacked. my xover is set to 100hz also.
I have always thought and said this: If you feel the need to add more subwoofers it means that your single Sub is not good enough. More subs take out the visual and psychological impact that a single one might make. Lastly parametric equalizers are crucial in quality bass. Those annoying peaks and dips are sometimes unbearable and impossible to get rid of unless you have an option to flatten them out
I have a question for you. My set up is mainly music. I listen to mostly r and b and hip hop etc. what would you suggest for a music only system for deep bass you can feel in your chest
For Music only I think it’s going to be hard to beat dual Rels. T9x’s if your space can support it. But this might not be a popular pick with the HT crowd 😅
I'm not trying to sound disrespectful but IMO this advice is reckless. If someone has a 7000 cubic foot room then sure, a Huge sub is called for but most of us probably are in that 2000 cubic foot territory. The best advice is this: buy a big and medium sized sub from svs, shoot out in your own space blindfolded, let a family member control the parameters to see if you can tell which is which. If not, you are just paying more money to turn your subwoofer down. With SVS return policy there should be no issues with going about it that way.
My room is 2,475 cubic feet and I’m running (4) 18’s in my setup. Not sure how that would be considered reckless. I have owned lots of subwoofers over the years and my current setup is far beyond what any of my previous subs were capable of.
@@Youthman it's just not necessary though, I noticed you have them positioned in the front of the room right? It doesn't take a massive sub to pressurize a room in that 2000 cubic foot range, a couple of 12" subs could play near reference level in that space. As long as a subwoofer is designed well (any SVS sub or reputable brands) play the same quality sound at those levels and pressurize the room. Flat is flat, the "slam" you are talking about is just the room being pressurized. Would you be willing to do a blindfold test with a variety of sub sizes? I heard the Perlisten sub @ simply stereo, Audioholics gave it the best review possible and I couldn't hear a difference in the quality of bass. If it's filling a giant space great, a giant space demands that but not ours. SVS themselves will tell you this that it's overkill if you ask them to get something like a pair of PB 16 Ultras. After watching a bunch of your shows I myself was considering going with the JTR captivators but I asked AV rant about if I'd get any benefit and they indicated no. I asked them about the subs over 4 episodes. If I could link you those questions would you be willing to give it a listen?
@@Youthman By reckless I meant you might be getting people to spend waaaay more money than they need to without benefits. I was almost one of them to be honest, like I said I was dead set on captivators
We all have to find what works best for us. I purchased dual PB16's and rocked them for over a year. They just can't handle much below 20Hz. My RS2's are flat down to 5Hz. It would take probably 8 PB16's to get the same output at 5Hz as my dual RS2's. If you try and play dual PB16's at reference volume using the intro to Edge of Tomorrow, it's a hot mess. JTR can handle that with ease. Most dual 12's would not meet my needs in my room.
@@Youthman I’m curious what db you’re running these at? I have a pretty small room and dual SB3000 subs and I have them at -15 on the svs app and -10 on my receiver. Seem like with 4 18s if you didn’t have them dialed way back, they would over power everything else in the system.
It would be interesting to see or hear anyone to agree that the kailscape sounds better then the 4k of zack snyder justice league ,that 4k is 4hours on 2 disc.or any other sound.in 4k disc...i actually heard people with both that actually said the opposite of what you guys said....physical media sounded better...i wish i had both to test that theory, but that is the first time i hear that streaming is better...thks guys good show...4 18s all the way psa...
I have 4 SVS SB 3000's in my setup Update, 8 months later and I'm upgrading the 4 SB 3000's to 2, SB 16 Ultras. Then I'll add a third SB 16. SB 3000's have waaay to many driver issues. It's a sub for a small room. It sucks IMO. If the sub is more dependable, it wouldn't be as bad. The voice coils of the SB 3000'S are to fragile. Crackling noises, static noises is a constant.
Rel subs only good for music but sucks for home theater. The bottom out. I tried 4 different models and I'm going to trade my sx212. Dealer telling me to be careful when watching movies lol that's crazy doesn't make any sense
Any subwoofer of $400 or less mostly likely will be a one note boom box, two of these kind of subwoofers, it will be boom box times two. For $800, many subwoofers are flat fr subwoofers.
Ehh, I have 2 pb-3000’s so not the big subs, but they do what I need them to do in my space… I don’t want to be over powered by bass in the room either…. So I am definitely good with what I have, of course I still need to find a movie that will utilize my subs, for I don’t think I have found a movie that does my dual subwoofers justice….
@@Youthman okay, yea I will have to find interstellar, for I don’t tthink I own that movie at least as of yet… but I will probably get it, when I buy my big stack of about 15-20 or 30 4K bluerays I’m planning on buying when we get into October….
If your room is very small (say 10’ x 10’), 1 sub can provide enough output. The question is do you have multiple seats you want smooth bass for. If so, one sub likely will not provide that.
@@Youthman the room is 10ft wide by 20 or so long I have klipich fronts and center Chanel going to get rears and a sub the fronts are the small rp4000 and matching center.
At 6:28 you say the 16” monolith is like 15”. Thats not correct. The 16” monolith is almost an 18”. Other manufacturers would say that its a 18”. Am i nitpicking right now? Anyway; I have 2x SB2000 in my living room in the best position possible due to their small size. I’m contemplating on selling these and get a 16” monolith and put it in the corner of the room. My room is 3500 cubic feet. I can buy the monolith for €1850 and probably sell the svs subs for €600 each. Is this a wise thing to do? Also, I dont know if my arcam avr850 has enough output voltage from its sub output to let this 16” monolith sing. Hope someone out there can help me get of this fence…
When I stay the 16" is a 15", I'm referring to physical measurements of the woofer itself, not whether it performs like some 18" subwoofers. No manufacturer actually makes a 13" or a 16" woofer. They are 12" and 15" woofers but they are rounding up. If you jump to 5:25 in this video - ruclips.net/video/DPfSht4gMug/видео.html you can see where I measured the driver of the PSA S3611 and the PB16 and the PB16 at MAX is 15.5" and that is including the ring that holds the subwoofer to the cabinet. The actual surface of the driver that is being used to create bass is only 14 inches!
@@Youthman I’m referring to the physical dimensions of the woofer as well! Seriously, including the ring on that 16” monolith its 18 inches. On the 13” monolith it’s 15 inches including that ring. Look at this video from someone who owns the 13” monolith: m.ruclips.net/video/16Uj00wqcGw/видео.html I don’t know why monoprice has named it this way, but its more honest than the other manufacturers imo. M Thanks for all the vids by the way. You really helped me with my home cinema setup!
Two small - NO
One big - NO
Two big - YYYYEEEESSSS
It all depends on room size, budget and neighbors! In a condo, two smaller subs might work better than one big one.
room shape more than size. if you are lucky to have a shoebox-shape room with nice linear mode distribution, you can place 2 subs in a 1/4 3/4 configuration. This more often than not results in an excellent bass response up to ~90-100Hz. Two subs are a good starting point, with a single sub in my experience it's nigh impossible to find placement where you won't have more than one prominent null and solid output. I am quite lucky with my room, it is a 4.8x3.5x2.4m shoebox.
Regarding the Kaleidescape...my issue personally isn't the upfront cost. It is the per-movie cost. Call me weird, but I don't mind paying to buy the unit. But I don't want to think "is this movie worth $20 to watch?'. I know I am "unique" but something to think about.
Great session tonight; thanks guys!
Nice analogy youthman: 20 years ago (I was 18 yo...) I've made the mistake of "instant gratification". I compromised, due to lack of finances, and wanted a complete 5.1 system and bought utter garbage from Phillips. I should have started with an AVR and decent stereo pair, than the sub, than the rears and lastly the center (5.1). And thats how you should start. Dont try to buy all of it at once, when you dont have the proper ressources of course.
Start with the AVR and stereo speakers -> subwoofer -> surroundspeakers -> center -> surround backs -> front heights -> rear heights -> 2nd subwoofer. 7.2.4 system DONE!
Hi have two BIC F12, love them. It rock my living room. Sometimes can slam. But really fact. Can't really go higher. Live in an apartment. So have my limit. Don't want a war with neighbors.
Have two made a difference.
Thanks for the video.
I have a pretty standard sized living room. I've been running a pair of 8" bookshelf speakers with a huge single 12" sub and it seems to be overkill. It's like the sub cant breath like there's not enough space for it to stretch its legs. I recently downgraded to a 10" with less amplifer power and it sounds MUCH better. Mind you it doesn't have the power and the depth of the 12" but it's barely noticeable. Im looking to add a second 10" and Im hoping it'll sound more complete, more full.
I currently have 1 big sub (for the room) sitting right next to the MLP and 1 small sub behind the TV to supplement the bass for the RP-400 bookshelves. I’ll eventually snag an SVS Micro 3000 and hide in the front left corner to help fill in the nulls.
I have a UM18 in a full marty. I retired it and use two separate UM12s and they satisfy me more than the 18.
Smoother bass, less port chuffing (Because I designed my box so I could make a proper port vs the full marty that chuffs a lot at low frequencies) and surprisingly better extension. I have a rising bass response that gets louder the lower I play and starts to roll off at 15Hz. Basically flat to 16Hz. I run them in a NU3000DSP but I'd recommend a better amp that has more power. It's anemic and personally don't believe any dyno results I've seen on it. It sounds distorted or starts to at 25v per channel. (Around 150w into 4 ohm in my case)
I'm in the UK, I had a dali 12 inch which hit relatively nice but had two fail on me with poor sealing on the cabinet. I did some more research and got two svs pb 1000's and they shake the house. Not as boomy as the dali but the bass is nice and clean. I also benefitted by the low 20hz range. Couldn't be happier.
Yeah Im in the UK as well, I also have two PB1000's, it's more than enough for me (and my neighbours)
@@johnbancroft5242my neighbours asked me to not watch films or play movies the other month, this was because they were going on holiday. I'm detached with double glazing.
I am planning to buy four BIC PL-300s which are the newer big brother to the PL-200. 350 watts RMS and 1400 watts peak power. BIC claims they go down to 15hz. I didnt believe it at first but I have seen two different measurements from independant owners which showed it actually did reach down to 15hz or 16hz, so I figure four of them will do the trick. Should have no problem reaching beyond reference level with four of them.
When I grew up in the 80's big speakers were the thing and at age 15 I spent a small fortune on two Cerwin Vega D9's. (15" 3 way system). Later companies like Bose really started pushing small speakers with "big sound" but never did they sound as good to my ears. Bigger is really better, I have a small room and RF7's now hooked up with 1000's of watts, I rarely turn anything up past 10% of it's potential but a speaker not being overdriven just sounds better. I've been looking at building some subs using the Dayton 18" drivers to pair up with my RF7's, currently I'm using my old vegas with the 15's for bass. They've been out of stock forever though.
Nice, ive got the cerwin vega AL 1000 and they are crystal lear and very loud!
@@sphenoidjjj for some reason audio files seem to shun cerwin vega but they've definitely made some great speakers.
@robwasnj they may still make good speakers. I know they did back in the 90s but that was the only decade that we heard about them so they’ve done a terrible job at marketing so no one knows except for people that have owned them since then.
The small speaker trend started because women had more disposable income and companies like Bose started focusing on aesthetics over sound in order to sell to women in shopping malls.
The million dollar question,the setup would be tidier if i just put a big sub behind the TV but of course you will sacrifice smoothness across the room.
It depends on what the person needs and the specific subs. For example, if a sub has next to no outout at 16hz...adding more wont help vs a bigger one that has great output down low
Doubling the speaker count will increase volume by 3 dB. You can ignore the room gain unless your room was anechoic chamber before doubling the speakers and a normal room afterwards.
Those guys were from Nebraska Furniture Mart which is a massive store! They carry a lot of high in gear stuff there for home theater
That is correct Kevin. We don’t have them in Florida so I’m not familiar with how large they are.
great video guys.....i went and orderd 2 mach 5 audio 18 inch subs..they are sitting in the boxes waiting for me to build the full martys..for me DIY was cheaper for me to get 18s then it was to buy 18s already built...i just have to go buy the wood ...im not using flat packs.....
Great Livestream tonight!
At the end somebody asked about in wall speakers and having their sofa right up against the wall and you mentioned about an in wall speaker or a wide dispersion speaker.
I'm in a similar boat, my sofa is about 8 inches from the wall, so not quite right up on it but close. I have Klipsch reference premiere speakers but need to go in walls for my surround back. Should I get ones with the dual opposing tweeters for a wide dispersion or is 8 inches away from the wall far enough for just a normal in wall speaker?
Looking at the Klipsch R-5650W II vs the R-5650S II.
I have been thinking about a pair of 18" sealed, or a pair of 21" sealed subs. SAVING!!!
As for line conditioners, Audiolab makes a DC Block $125-150 that removes stray DC currents from your AC power. Absolutely makes an audible difference when used on amplifiers. I have 3 of them. It makes the sound more incisive. But if you had exceptionally clean power maybe you wouldn't hear a difference.
38:15
The BASKET Frame size is the marketing gimmick:
Monolith 13inch subs are mounted in a normal 15inch frame.
Monolith 16inch mounted in a normal 18 inch frame
Typical 15inch speaker is only 13-13.5 inch cone area. My car Subs measure for cone-13.5 inches, but are 15's.
What manufacturers did was use the Basket frame size to say 15 or 18's which sounds bigger.
So the Monolith are typically more accurate, and it would be the other companies that are using the so called marketing gimmick.
So a JTR would likely be a 16_5/8 inches.
You can check any speaker mounting depth and see this is true,
An 18inch Sundown (car Sub) Cut-out depth is 16.69 inches, The outer diameter is 18.42 inches.
The sub cone area is about 16.5 inches.
It is streaming.with the ability to save it and watch when you want.
So I have 2 subs. Just added the second one about 4 months ago. It really made a dramatic difference. Initially I thought it wpuld just be better bass. My first impression was how the sound field seemed to open up. There was more atmosphere.
One sub an SVS SB3000 is connected to the LFE. The other is a REL T7X conne ted directly to the center channel via high pass connection on the sub. They work well together. I'm no audiophile but I do think the rel is faster than the svs.
What do you mean with faster?
Congrats on the second sub. I’m a huge advocate for using multiple subs.
I have heard many describe bass as fast or slow but this is a myth that has been passed down for many years. Google Fast vs Slow Bass. Lots of great articles on the subject.
I’ve had people say that smaller woofers are faster than larger woofers, which is not true. It all comes down to design and components, not size of the driver.
I see this question alot so thanks for the detailed answer. I would love to know your opinion on perlisten dual d12i Vs the d215??? Or even D12 Vs some bigger in subwoofer.
What about if you were picking between an JTR 4000ULF vs two JTR Captivator 2400's? Would you get more output from having 2 and being able to position them different areas of room? Or is having the bigger tower and space bigger with the 2 drivers inside?
With a 2880 sq-ft living room, I bought a SVS PB2000 5 years ago. It sounded impressive, but you can definitely tell where the bass is coming from. Fast forward to a month ago, I bought a SVS PB3000 to add to my system. At lower to mid volumes, the main improvement was, I could no longer tell where the bass is coming from. Compression improved very little. At louder volumes, the higher compression becomes a great deal more noticeable. As a home theater sub, for general use, the PB2000 did fine by its self. It impressed everyone that heard it. As an autistic man that really enjoys great sounding equipment played at live levels, adding the PB3000 made a significant improvement. My point is, most people have tin ears and almost never listen to volumes higher than mid-levels; the second sub is a waste for them. Only a sound coinsure really would notice or care about the difference. The truth of the matter is, you are buying that second sub mostly for your own enjoyment. Less than one person out of 20 would notice a difference.
Nearly 2900 sq ft just for the living room!!!?? Holy hell
i have 1 b&w bd4s in living room used for music mostly but works equally well for movies, i can’t imagine what it must be like if it were 15” or i had 2 of them. i am more than satisfied with the single b&w 10”, it was a bit expensive; $2k
Hello Youthman. I’ve been hanging out with your channel and in different forums. I’ve never commented before but I just want you to know it’s been enjoyable watching your platform grow to where it is. Outstanding! Keep up the great work in providing the home theater enthusiast updated and informed on the hobby. About the subwoofer choice configuration, it’s so room dependent not to mention budget restraints, if any. I currently use a 2 sub setup, however, they are completely different designs. One is a dual drive design (Klipsch RSW10) and the other is a Sunfire True Sub TSEQ10 Solitaire. My room is 14 x 12 and they are positioned in between the towers and the AV lowboy stand. With the help of Audyssey room correction (Marantz pre-pro), I’ve been able to achieve balanced low end performance. Neither sub would be considered a show stopper, but due to room size, and living in a condo, I get no complaints from neighbors and the performance is acceptable.
Thank you for the kind words
@@Youthman pls advise!! Am planning to take take subwoofer,should I go for one pb4000 or two pb 2000 pro....pls advise...or Now am Using B&w Db4s 10 inch sub...should I add one more Db4s sub ...My room is 6.5 mtr x 4 mtr.....pls advice.....
@@Youthman I plan to do HT for my uncle. And no he not gonna upgrade by adding one thing at a time like adding second SUB or even more Surround speakers.Once set and done the only thing be upgraded is the TV. And he be using the audio setup for Decade or more. So which will be better. 2 x 15/16" or 1 x 18/21"
As shared in the video, my vote is one PB4000, then down the road if you need more, get a second.
@@Youthman What if we never get second one. Then would one be enough compared to two.
I’m just getting into surround sound setup. I don’t have a big budget right now, so I went with nakamichi 7.2.4 which has 2 8” subs. It’s an 800 watt system which will used in my living room. I figure it’s a good entry into the hobby. My new house has 3 bedrooms and eventually 1 bedroom will be turned into a dedicated theatre room. These videos are great! I love getting ideas and seeing other peoples theatre rooms. The guy with the Harry Potter room is about the same size room that I will be using.
Glad to hear the videos are inspirational.
Yea man! What’s a good website to research speakers? And where is a good website to buy used equipment? Is there a dedicated website for used equipment?
Youthman Classifieds on Facebook for used gear
Audio Advice for new
I have never checked output from blu ray but I remeber the t-rex from jp hitting 110 db on laserdisc.
I know that saying about there is no replacement for displacement, but JTR are not sold in my country, price to import to Europe is crazy. Was always with the impression that anyone can do home cinema, I wish to buy them but $10k for dual ulf4000 is crazy and the hard part is how will I manage to fit those beasts in an 11ft by 16ft room? Sometimes one has to consider everything, I love big bass, I live in an apartment of 6 families that's the first issue. Second I need dual or more since tried 1 large sub I have places where bass is crazy and places where bass was gone. I prefer to stick to 2 small subs for money reasons and for placement reasons, but still I know that the bigger the better when it comes to subs and I fully agree.
Michael, I enjoy watching your videos. Especially love your passion for one of my favorite hobbies. Curious, you have reviewed the PSA S3012 and the Monolith 16 in your home theater. Understanding every room is different, if you had to pick only one, or in my case a pair, would you pick the PSA 3012 or the Monolith 16?
Monolith 16
I have not reviewed the S3012 but I’m a fan of dual opposing subs, and especially when they are designed and built by Tom V from Power Sound Audio. In room response down to 7 Hz with no worries of port chuffing. Looks like a killer sub.
Duals and in the largest size you can stomach. Having went through a slew of subs, I now know duals, minimally is the way to go. Unless you have a small listening area.
For me I have a room that's 50 ft long 40 ft wide width 12 ft ceilings I put in 8 small heavily powered subwoofers 8 to 12 in you don't need anything larger than that if you're going to spend three or four grand on subwoofers why not buy 8 subwoofers in about 300 a piece rather than one or two subwoofers at 20000 a piece it's all about evening and spreading the sound around the room room to feel and hear the boomin vibration that you really want,..
Directional cables are directional, because of the Earth drain wire..
....maybe I'll add a 3rd subwoofer. Just for fun. Still have a spare Lfe input I can use.
I have a Marantz 11.2 system with the Klipsch reference speakers and two sb 3000s , one pb 1000 with the port plugged and a martin logan dynamo 700 which is sealed as well (7.4.4) The room is around 15 x 20 and very dead with heavy drapes, big furniture and thick carpet, I am a big fan of action movies and music and im very happy with the tight bass from these subs in this small to medium size room. The sb 3000s are a smaller sub with big punch in a smaller room. The sp 1000 is bigger than the sb 3000s and the Matin Logan is the smallest with a very surprising punch. Subs are daisy chained.
I've 2 SVS-B4+ subs, each powered by a 3000watt Crest mono power amplifier. These things are monsters! Each sub contains 4x 12inch drivers in push/pull mode with 4 bass ports that I can fit my entire arm into. they come with port bungs to help tune the bass to the room. They are capable of literally moving the foundations of our detached house. our cats refuse to be in the same room as them. They are TRUE subwoofers as they both drop well below 20Hz with huge SPL. at full chat, they can induce nausea and literally feel like they remove the air from your lungs! The tunnel explosion in the film Daylight, the pod race scene in Star Wars The Phantom Menace, the asteroid bombardment of New York in Armageddon and the depth charge scene in U-571 are awesome subwoofer demo pieces and the B4's lap them up. they're great with music, too.
I got 6 klipsch r 12 sw subs on sale and a couple of them open box for less then $1200 and am looking for 2 more for a total of 8 for a 16 x 20 x8 room.
im rocking 2 klipsch r-121sw's on my system , plenty of bass for room i have
After watching this and listening to portions of this program I tend to have an opinion about each section that I'm watching and this has to do with the price of speakers what you're buying what you're buying it for size of the room comfortable listening levels for you so if you're listening to let's say nine inch nails you are going to purchase something like the Klipsch Tower series or the SVS Tower series or the Aaron doll Tower series which are really really nice if you can afford four of them for a large room.. this is kind of what I do I've been auditioning speakers since 1972 for friends and acquaintances and people who want something without having to go shop for it I really enjoy shopping for electronics and I know prices I know all of it so.....
I have one subwoofer and second one had to be wireless due to some cabling restrictions.. Whats your thought on theae type of configuration?
I have 4 Technics subs.Although not huge they are THX certified.
My god I love youthman bass description. I feel the same way I want deep bass too
Appreciate it Mk
You'zz guys must have never heard the super cube 2 from defniitive audio... GREAT little sub
I actually have. A friend of mine owned one. Wasn’t impressed.
I have one 150 watt 10" I run at 50-55%ish volume crossed over at 120 Hz through my AVR......I think I NEED another....... I REALLY want two 8" Paradigm V8's!!!! Place them about 16 feet apart at the front of my space (can't do opposite corners because the left side of my viewing space is open. Thank goodness I have a post in perfect placement for my left ATMOS speaker 😂) They'd compliment my Paradigm Monitor SE6000F's NICELY I think!
I am running a single UM18-22 off a Crown xls1005 and want a little more output. I'm wondering if I add another UM off the same amp, would I get more output?
This is a VERY HIGH END SOUNDBAR put out by Pro Audio Technology (Parent Company). They make them in different lengths. This isn't a regular sound bar. It costs $$$ Thousands.
Great episode
Been wanted to post my for a month. Great video again.
Love your explanation about displacement it's great. Also when you spoke about the experience of 8 small subwoofer.
I'm one that spoke in the past about BIC F12.
Had looked with my budget, these were the best I found. Saw some videos about two subwoofer is even better.
So went for two, don't regret.
Like the look. When received them was surprised wasn't actual sliver metal put "plastic " Tomme look cool.
It's does make a huge difference to what I had before.
I put them on Pyle foam. They do serve has for my stands for my tower's. Have but some anti slip material so tower's don't move.
Since have very small living room. It does shake walls. But took care of skake on walls etc. Has I want the effects of the subs but hear all the movies sound effects.
You got me curious, with the slap on chest, etc you mentioned.
But two bigger subs, cost, would put my tower's higher which would be bad. Oddly my tower's tweeters are at ears level. Plus have two small speakers that kind of act like front wide speakers. So higher to towers would block their sound.
Plus bigger subwoofer, might run in fight with neighbors, may be break some of their stuffs by vibration.
So seems in case to be a no-no ;-)
Kind wishes I could do it.
Because you and some other RUclipsrs you speak of they love of the experience it gives to movie experience. What you miss of the movie tracks.
Remember my movie experience in theater in the 1980 for Star Trek Undiscovered Country. At the very beginning of the movie.
When a mining moon collapse.
Boy was dead on center on the balcony, boy slap in the chest!!!
Let me tell you after that was trying to seat about in same seats area.
Nice when you break down some of those long Sunday post.
Hate BIC 300 than they really look plastic. Instead of looking copper, it looks like salmon color. Plus reading comments they port make noize again annoying for movie or music
Again love my BIC F12, if they would be very at music would be better. Do listen to music with them. Just set my Yamaha receiver to a different mode.
Be curious hear to a subwoofer that's good at it.
Cheers, 100000 subscribers soon.
If you want good bass extension and accurate playback of 20 Hz with any volume level, you cannot use a small sub in practice. Nobody can create accurate playback of 20 Hz with a small subwoofer.
You want enough audio power to be able to reproduce 20 Hz with whatever volume level you want to use and then add DSP processing to handle the standing waves in the room. Having two subwoofers is typically better for standing waves but you cannot get 2 so small subs that you cannot reproduce enough audio power at 20 Hz. It's okay to send mono signal and use one DSP processor for two subs because the wavelength for low frequencies is so low.
You should use some DSP that can fix group delay in addition to frequency response. I'm using Dspeaker 8033 and it's working fine. A DSP processor + cheaper sub that can still emit 20 Hz is much much better option than more expensive sub without a DSP.
I have two 12" subs; SVS PB-2000 and Hsu Research, and they're very similar. Now, I wish I'd just gone for two of the Monolith 10" subs. I only use them for music and the occasional games, so more than that is unnecessary I think, though they're in a very small room so lots of issues that the dual 10" would have likely solved.
Having a 12" sub in this room causes massive nulls, no matter where I put the sub, so perhaps a smaller sub would work. Or, I might need a sealed sub to match the sealed aDs 910s.@@MusicStillRules
Size of driver should not impact your frequency response.
My opinion: Never go smaller than a 12" sub. After that it becomes more specific. Budget, size of room, focus for one seat or multiple, "wife factor"/astetics, level of knowledge for efficiency (REW, MiniDsp...). I chose four 12" svs ported because I host a big family gathering movie night every week & the price fit my budget. Also, I have a MiniDsp & I am well versed with REW (-3db @17.5hz). I have 2 settings for my subs: 1 for big gatherings & 1 for just me. My choice for subs accomplished my goals & it gives me time to save money for the next level.
*I do wish I had sealed subs though. I listen to a lot of music and (generally) I think they sound better with music.
But they have a sealed option in the menu? So can be modified to act like one.
Did you dial in the 4 manually or did you use MSO?
@@Residentq3 2 of my subs are older svs models & don't have the option of changing to sealed. My newer 2 do. So I'm stuck with ported for now.
@@tvolkman88 I actually have 3 config settings. 1- just for me watching/listening, 2- for me & my wife, 3- for family. I manually dialed them in for the first two. For the 3rd I did use MSO because I had to tune them for six seats.
How big is your room?
Could you do some in depth coverage of the: Home Theatre Sound bar from Pro Audio Technology (Atlanta, GA). I think a decent system would have around 4-twin 18 inch subs from JTR.
Thanks for the suggestion Richard. At this time, I do not have any plans to review soundbars.
1 should be enough if you do the subwoofer crawl and your homes architecture is built for maximum acoustic performance provided tge subwoofer plays down to 20hz
1 subwoofer is enough if you only have one seat. If you have more than one seat, it’s VERY likely you will have bulls in other seats.The subwoofer crawl is flawed. Thanks for a new video idea. 😉
I am using a Velodyne dd15 plus and am saving up for another. Velodyne are back from what I have heard.
I haven’t seen much from Velodyne in the past 20 years. They were under new ownership but still haven’t heard from them at all.
Velodyne are now since 2019, under the direction of the German High End Company "Audio Reference" in Hamburg. They bought them.
Yes, they just haven’t seemed to have done anything with the brand since acquisition.
Maybe used as a side venture.I remember reading the Velodyne sub thread on AVS some years ago and there was all sorts of confusion going on as to faults and customer service. I have had mine for some years and never had a problem. It’s def not short on Quality and power.One more would be fantastic. Bloody expensive though.
I have a single pb2000 pro. Not sure if I should replace it with a pb3000 or go dual pb 2000
Crazy hard question because the ported 3000 is SOOOOO good
I have 2 PB3000 subs. I've always wanted bigger subs, especially PB16s. I really just care about the punch in the chest feel, so will 4 PB3000 equal the output and chest punch like 2 PB 16s? I really don't want to hassle with selling wait time.
You are not happy with 2 pb-3000? I love em can’t wish for anything more than them
i have several elac speakers and 1 sub
needs more power but they sound great for the money IMO
I have heard great things about Elac
check out thomas dolby flat earth
old school sound check but not bad for it's time
Myself I went with to two small subs do to my room size but if I could it I would went with two monolith 13inch subs 👍🏼 all good with I currently have
What about the lag difference between a small sub and a big sub? Usually a smaller sub is quicker than bigger ones
Definitely a myth that has been circulated for decades. Think about it, the speed at which a subwoofer moves is what creates the frequency it plays so if it’s playing slower, it would technically play a lower frequency than it should, and that’s just not the case.
I'm a fan of big subs, I rather start with one large sub. then upgrade to second later on. i have 2 monolith 15s. started with one and got another a ur later. at the same time I was able to lower the gain on both vs having one having the gain cranked to its max potential.
Exactly
Ohh my god buddy I have 1 monolith 15 and i just want to ask you how is the power with 2 monoliths and also how the quality? You can hear things that you never hear before because i want to order the second 😊😊😊 pleasee tell me
@@kuriakos36 there is always a big difference from 1 vs 2 no matter what size. it's the fullness in the room and not knowing where the direction it's comming from. the quality is the same but added infrasound pressure in the room what impresses me the most especially for the price of these. I never felt the Low end frequency in my vehicle vs these being in my home. I have a small imprint where these sit. if you love bass adding another one wouldn't be a problem because you can always turn it down, but I rather be scared to turn it up.
@@Youthman by the way, your review on these subs made want to get them and I've been subbed ever since, thanks a bunch.
Glad the videos were helpful
How about 2 vs 4? I am considering 2 big or 4 small subs. Budget is fairly open ended, but I can't fit 4 big boxes in the room. I read that 4 subs in corners get a coupling effect to increase output.
4 subs in the corners will give you the highest output but probably will sound bloated/muddy. First, you have to know if you are a sound quality guy (me) or are you after max output?
SQ=REL, Rythmik
Output=SVS, JSL Audio
Music=sealed
Movies=vented
Having 2 large subs will give you a ton of output, even response AND placement flexibility. The fact your room isn't big enough for 4 large subs suggests you don't need 4 anyway.
@@bearclaw5115thanks!
The room could fit 4 large ones, but they'd be in wonky places, which would not help seat to seat consistency. And when going 4, I would want 4 corners for the coupling effect.
Brand wise I'd be looking at stuff available in Europe like Arendal, Elac, XTZ or maybe some US brand like SVS.
Why are sealed subs better for music? Is it because of the lower group delay? That should only matter below the ported subs ports tuning frequency, and basically no music goes that low.
Michael, you should check out Huntsville, Al for your next MWAVE. There are plenty of places to hold the event (the VBC would be good), and you're boy Erin could get you hooked up with the right people. Or message me and I can help ya out.
I lived in Grant, AL (45 min East of Huntsville) for 4 years.
@@Youthman Sweet! Not sure the last time you've been here, but it definitely has grown. Also, The Westin would be a good choice as well, they have a large conference center. A lot of expos are held there.
I might like having 2 subs placed apart very well e.
Came here to get an answer, saw a 1hr+ timeline and gave up on first second.
Are there cliff notes ?
We answer the main question at the beginning of the video then spend the rest of the time answering questions from chat
I am using 2 15's dayton audio dialed in for music . not rap or techno but music
I like Rap and Techno as well as music. 🤣
it's cool to show off some bling but i keep it closer to flat. i am a guitar player so I want flatish
2 any size will be 1000x better than 1. it is like asking mono vs stereo OR Stereo vs Atoms?
You're making a fundamental flaw on this one with bass.
3 small 10 budget subwoofers will be outclassed by 1 monolith 16, period
I would love to see that comparison in a blind test or even measurements.
i have 2 um18's in denovo cube 18 boxes. im running them off of a older crown ce4000. i absolutely love them for sure. they sound excellent and the bass is crisp and clear. the bass is also quick. im very happy with this setup. id much rather build my own sub over purchasing pre made stuff. imo the diy stuff far outperforms the commercially made stuff by far. the um18 is very effortless thats for sure. like you i wanted the impact from subs. i had a rsl 12s and tthat thing was absolute garbage. impact was literally 0. then when comparing sound quality and bass clarity is an even bigger joke. i buy subs to not only hear but feel the bass. rsl is not anywhere near as good. the 12s was so bad i returned it. id also put money on a um12 will def outperform the rsl guaranteed. i will say i could def get 2 more um 18's for even more impact. my room is 18x15x9. id say id you want impact def go for the biiggest you can afford. id still say go diy though as there is no substitute. if you cant cut the wood for cabinet. simply go to a local cabinet guy and have them cut it for you. there is no reason to spend the insane money on these flat packs that only use 1-at best 2 sheets of mdf. you also do not need the insane bracing some of these companies have in their flat packs. thats literally just a waste. it is literally unnecessary, that is only done to give you the perception your getting your moneys worth. it also makes some people think thats the kind of bracing you need. i bought my subs used for a steal. thats the only reason mine are made with flat packs. yes im going to build my own boxes as well. im going to build a box thats tuned to 16hz. i also will be adding 2 more in the future. id also like to add that my subs are indeed stacked. my xover is set to 100hz also.
Two big!
I have always thought and said this: If you feel the need to add more subwoofers it means that your single Sub is not good enough. More subs take out the visual and psychological impact that a single one might make. Lastly parametric equalizers are crucial in quality bass. Those annoying peaks and dips are sometimes unbearable and impossible to get rid of unless you have an option to flatten them out
That's why people run two subs. It evens out the response. Even if you tune a single sub the response will vary from seat to seat.
I have a question for you. My set up is mainly music. I listen to mostly r and b and hip hop etc. what would you suggest for a music only system for deep bass you can feel in your chest
For Music only I think it’s going to be hard to beat dual Rels. T9x’s if your space can support it. But this might not be a popular pick with the HT crowd 😅
Not sure he’s going to get deep bass with REL subs.
@@Youthman so in your opinion what should I go with?
A lot depends on your budget. Rythmik, HSU provide a lot of value and performance. My end game has been JTR.
Rule no.1 DO NOT have your listening position in the center of any room
hello, all the way from Sultanate of Oman
I'm not trying to sound disrespectful but IMO this advice is reckless. If someone has a 7000 cubic foot room then sure, a Huge sub is called for but most of us probably are in that 2000 cubic foot territory. The best advice is this: buy a big and medium sized sub from svs, shoot out in your own space blindfolded, let a family member control the parameters to see if you can tell which is which. If not, you are just paying more money to turn your subwoofer down. With SVS return policy there should be no issues with going about it that way.
My room is 2,475 cubic feet and I’m running (4) 18’s in my setup. Not sure how that would be considered reckless. I have owned lots of subwoofers over the years and my current setup is far beyond what any of my previous subs were capable of.
@@Youthman it's just not necessary though, I noticed you have them positioned in the front of the room right?
It doesn't take a massive sub to pressurize a room in that 2000 cubic foot range, a couple of 12" subs could play near reference level in that space. As long as a subwoofer is designed well (any SVS sub or reputable brands) play the same quality sound at those levels and pressurize the room. Flat is flat, the "slam" you are talking about is just the room being pressurized.
Would you be willing to do a blindfold test with a variety of sub sizes? I heard the Perlisten sub @ simply stereo, Audioholics gave it the best review possible and I couldn't hear a difference in the quality of bass. If it's filling a giant space great, a giant space demands that but not ours.
SVS themselves will tell you this that it's overkill if you ask them to get something like a pair of PB 16 Ultras.
After watching a bunch of your shows I myself was considering going with the JTR captivators but I asked AV rant about if I'd get any benefit and they indicated no. I asked them about the subs over 4 episodes. If I could link you those questions would you be willing to give it a listen?
@@Youthman By reckless I meant you might be getting people to spend waaaay more money than they need to without benefits. I was almost one of them to be honest, like I said I was dead set on captivators
We all have to find what works best for us. I purchased dual PB16's and rocked them for over a year. They just can't handle much below 20Hz. My RS2's are flat down to 5Hz. It would take probably 8 PB16's to get the same output at 5Hz as my dual RS2's. If you try and play dual PB16's at reference volume using the intro to Edge of Tomorrow, it's a hot mess. JTR can handle that with ease. Most dual 12's would not meet my needs in my room.
@@Youthman I’m curious what db you’re running these at? I have a pretty small room and dual SB3000 subs and I have them at -15 on the svs app and -10 on my receiver. Seem like with 4 18s if you didn’t have them dialed way back, they would over power everything else in the system.
Why not 2 big ones
It would be interesting to see or hear anyone to agree that the kailscape sounds better then the 4k of zack snyder justice league ,that 4k is 4hours on 2 disc.or any other sound.in 4k disc...i actually heard people with both that actually said the opposite of what you guys said....physical media sounded better...i wish i had both to test that theory, but that is the first time i hear that streaming is better...thks guys good show...4 18s all the way psa...
4 large! LOL. Massive bass is so cool
🤣🤣🤣
11:55 square inches. You're talking area.
RSL produces great subs under 1K.
🔥🔥🔥
Buy 1 large, suffer with the nulls. The suffering will eventually make you buy another large sub and you win in the end.
🤣🤣🤣
Legit LOLed well said haha!
I can't even turn mine half way up
Hi sir
I have 4 SVS SB 3000's in my setup
Update,
8 months later and I'm upgrading the 4 SB 3000's to 2, SB 16 Ultras. Then I'll add a third SB 16. SB 3000's have waaay to many driver issues. It's a sub for a small room. It sucks IMO. If the sub is more dependable, it wouldn't be as bad. The voice coils of the SB 3000'S are to fragile. Crackling noises, static noises is a constant.
The answer is 4 ...... use 4 subwoofers, my impression going from 2 to 4 ... is not sublime, more like whatthe#fu$#wow$#cool 🤣
Rel subs only good for music but sucks for home theater. The bottom out. I tried 4 different models and I'm going to trade my sx212. Dealer telling me to be careful when watching movies lol that's crazy doesn't make any sense
Sorry to hear that. I have not reviewed any REL subs and have only heard one system that had dual 212’s. I wanted more from them as well.
Any subwoofer of $400 or less mostly likely will be a one note boom box, two of these kind of subwoofers, it will be boom box times two. For $800, many subwoofers are flat fr subwoofers.
Bic F12 is awesome! I have 2
Awesome compared to no sub. I had one and gave it to my brother it was a tubby mess. RSL subs so much better for not much more. New 10E is only 299.
martin logan subwoofer
2 Big Subwoofers
I like it
The hobby is Stereo.
2 large :)
2 small ones for me........
2 small subs is always better than one large sub in my opinion because you can place them to flill in the nulls in the room.
I’d personally prefer 2 large subs 😉
@@Youthman Absolutely Youthman. Go big or go bigger (no going home😅).
svs 3000 looks like elac sub
Maybe
Ehh, I have 2 pb-3000’s so not the big subs, but they do what I need them to do in my space… I don’t want to be over powered by bass in the room either…. So I am definitely good with what I have, of course I still need to find a movie that will utilize my subs, for I don’t think I have found a movie that does my dual subwoofers justice….
Dual PB3000 are a fantastic choice. If you want to test them, try the Workhole scene from Interstellar
Intro to Edge of Tomorrow, Moonfall, Ambulance, or Tenet
@@Youthman okay, yea I will have to find interstellar, for I don’t tthink I own that movie at least as of yet… but I will probably get it, when I buy my big stack of about 15-20 or 30 4K bluerays I’m planning on buying when we get into October….
@@tvolkman88 I have moonfall, planning on getting ambulance, and edge of tomorrow, though, when October hits….
@@Ryand0523 get the blu ray edge of tomorrow not 4k. They took away the deep bass of the dts mix
My question is what if your room is small yes very small 1 or 2 subs 🤔?
If your room is very small (say 10’ x 10’), 1 sub can provide enough output. The question is do you have multiple seats you want smooth bass for. If so, one sub likely will not provide that.
@@Youthman the room is 10ft wide by 20 or so long I have klipich fronts and center Chanel going to get rears and a sub the fronts are the small rp4000 and matching center.
@@Youthman and thanks.
2 Large Subwoofers 😈
That’s my vote lol
The guy on the right has a symbol on his feed that looks like a Freemason sign ! 🤔🤭😉
Not sure how you drew that conclusion. The freemason logo has an upside down V and a right side up V. Ryan's logo has a Triangle and a V.
At 6:28 you say the 16” monolith is like 15”. Thats not correct. The 16” monolith is almost an 18”. Other manufacturers would say that its a 18”. Am i nitpicking right now? Anyway; I have 2x SB2000 in my living room in the best position possible due to their small size. I’m contemplating on selling these and get a 16” monolith and put it in the corner of the room. My room is 3500 cubic feet. I can buy the monolith for €1850 and probably sell the svs subs for €600 each. Is this a wise thing to do? Also, I dont know if my arcam avr850 has enough output voltage from its sub output to let this 16” monolith sing. Hope someone out there can help me get of this fence…
When I stay the 16" is a 15", I'm referring to physical measurements of the woofer itself, not whether it performs like some 18" subwoofers. No manufacturer actually makes a 13" or a 16" woofer. They are 12" and 15" woofers but they are rounding up. If you jump to 5:25 in this video - ruclips.net/video/DPfSht4gMug/видео.html you can see where I measured the driver of the PSA S3611 and the PB16 and the PB16 at MAX is 15.5" and that is including the ring that holds the subwoofer to the cabinet. The actual surface of the driver that is being used to create bass is only 14 inches!
@@Youthman I’m referring to the physical dimensions of the woofer as well! Seriously, including the ring on that 16” monolith its 18 inches. On the 13” monolith it’s 15 inches including that ring. Look at this video from someone who owns the 13” monolith: m.ruclips.net/video/16Uj00wqcGw/видео.html
I don’t know why monoprice has named it this way, but its more honest than the other manufacturers imo. M
Thanks for all the vids by the way. You really helped me with my home cinema setup!