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Why Big Companies Hire Ivy League Graduates- Jordan Peterson
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- Опубликовано: 7 авг 2019
- Why Big Companies Hire Ivy League Graduates explained by Jordan Peterson. Stay tuned for a full interview coming soon on Valuetainment. Make sure to subscribe to Valuetainment for the updates: bit.ly/2aPEwD4
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Jordan Bernt Peterson is a Canadian clinical psychologist and a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto.
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One thing that is rarely talked about, and is surrounded by misinformation when it is talked about, is how malleable SAT scores are. I taught at two SAT training centers in China, and one thing that quickly became apparent to me through that experience is that any person, even if not very bright, who sits through enough hours of instruction and takes enough practice tests can increase his/her score by many hundreds of points. I have met so many Chinese students who go to multiple prep centers and also take prep courses at their schools -- and this is after spending ten or so years in an educational system that is a test-taking boot camp. By the time they take the SAT, many of them have taken dozens of practice tests and have sat through over a hundred hours of prep courses that have been refined over decades by an industry worth billions of dollars to super efficiently teach students the knowledge and strategies they need to crack the test. If you administer the SAT to students who haven't spent an ungodly amount of time and effort prepping for it, perhaps the SAT serves as a good proxy for IQ or intelligence. If you administer the SAT to students who have made a mini-career out of prepping for it, it's not so indicative of raw intellectual ability.
Super Cajun Yeah it’s just taking the drivers permit test at a certain point. Especially in a place like China where children are expected to devote hours to studying daily.
Once you accept that, then you realize it’s about who’s taking it more serious, I.e. who has devoted more study time to it.
Well, true.
But then surely they fail at Harvard or wherever... It's the being a graduate that gives the second important data point
@Sheps
But hardly anyone who got accepted into Harvard gets kicked out.
You have the rare drop out along the likes of Jobs/Gates/Musk/Bezos etc who still end up being famous. But most of the lower echelons just coast through Harvard with B's or C's while their parents put pressure on teachers not to fail their shitty kids.
MrNicoJac right and only Steve Jobs parents weren’t incredibly wealthy beforehand though.
Musk, Bezos, Gates, all old money. Look it up.
You can have an extremely intelligent person (exclusive ed) but if they have no social skills or dont have the ability think outside the norm they are a dime a dozen. Standard genius is over rated.
I would agree with you
you need social skills to find the cure for something, except talking to other who are in the same working field
My girlfriends brother got a 36 on the ACT and works at Burger King. It’s sad.
@Derek Zhou spoken like a true genius
Yes, that's why Ivy Leagues filter them out.
A good portion of ivy league students have legacy and come from families that have been wealthy for many generations. I don’t think its fair to say that everyone who is in an ivy league college is a genius, but ones lifestyle growing up and how they were raised is definitely a big factor.
He didn't say everyone was. He said that they were very likely to be.
@@Mina-np5pl could you translate very likely into an objective measure for us?
completely wrong now, unless your parents donate millions of dollars legacy doesn't mean shit. actually, being a first-generation college student counts for much more than legacy now.
This depends on your level-none of the the PhDs there are going to be legacy.
so if thats true, then they would have to drop out for failing to meet academic standards lol. This is ivy leauge....theirs no need to make anomalies the norm to cope bro
Or mommy and daddy cheated and paid the school admins. 😂😂😂😂
@@dezertson2011 a bunch of elites got caught if you didn't know. Im sure there were many morevthat havent been caught. Those schools are good for nothing more than association with power. Big shifts in the way education is achieved in the future. ✌
dezertson2011 yeah no John McCain’s daughter on the view and every politician’s kid goes to Ivy League off merit.
Give me a break. It’s really not that rare and rich people have been funneling in money to private schools to get “favors” in return FOREVER.
To just look at whose in these “esteemed” institutions and say: “wow these are really smart people they should lead society” is something that was maybe true in the past but nepotism has corrupted.
Bull Dozer Yet majority of Ivy League schools are still predominantly white. Affirmative action is just a way to pit minorities against each other, and so universities can cover their obvious racism. It only helps blacks and Latinos and disqualifies Asians, Arabs and other minorities. Besides blacks and latinos don’t even apply to Ivy League schools as much as other races.
endowments are legal bribes
or daddy donated a building
1) Not all IVY league student are high-quality student, the majority get in because their parents had "connections.
2) The government is an example of an institution run by incompetent people.
3) You can be a really great intelligent student but you don't end been IVY since you lack the funds and connections.
4) School is not about intelligence is about following instructions without doubting is the right way.
The truth is very few students who are accepted into these selective schools have “connections,” nor do Ivy Leagues only look at test scores and GPA. Almost all of their applicants have near perfect grades - what they’re really looking for is something that makes that person unique, whether if they’re a music prodigy, started their own business in high school, was a captain of a sports team, or won multiple awards for one reason or another. You are correct, however, that it is more difficult for underprivileged kids to get into these universities and that students with connections have a higher chance of getting in, but again, most of the students who attend Ivy League colleges earned their way there.
Long Schnozzed Tribesman Your logic here is completely flawed. How could the _majority_ get in because they aren’t white if the _majority_ of most, if not all universities in the US are comprised of white students?
@@saga2795 he does not care about logic. he is plain racist and probably gets worked up whenever he sees a minority on campus LOL
you don't get good at science without critical skills.
The MAJORITY of ivy league students aren't there because mommy and daddy paid. Those people do make up part of the class, but they aren't the majority. Do you actually know anyone who went to these schools?
I did my masters at Yale and the quality was way worse than in my home country. American education system has test based structure while European is more argumentative. Bc of this I had a way better background than the us students. It was the easiest year of my education and assumed to be a top school world wide
U.S should be capitalized
Große Böse what are you talking about? Every country in Western Europe is a free marked. They definitely have more social programs than the US but some EU countries have better environments to succeed as an entrepreneur. That is just straight up fact. If you are actually a German you would know this.
Intense you have misunderstood how progressive taxation works. You do not pay 75% of everything you earn. Au contre (pun intended) - it is progressive to your earnings
And the top level of tax in France is like 45%. At least when I lived there. I’m quite certain that no country in Europe has a 75% tax even for the richest people.
Große Böse A lot of European countries also have a culture of not bragging about ones achievements, while in the US you’re encouraged to take pride in your accolades. Capitalism is more than just an economic system, it’s a cultural model that encourages excellence and competition in all aspects of life, because that’s how you get the best of everything.
In a lot of socialist countries, there’s a culture of keeping your fellow citizens “in check” as in, making sure that guy sitting next to you doesn’t get too far ahead. There’s a reason why America is able to attract the best and the brightest from around the world and it’s because Americans love and glorify winners. A guy like Donald Trump would be hated in Europe.
Ivy leagues' purpose is for rich kids to meet one another and develop relationships between families and create business deals. You don't actually learn squat from the professors and resources are probably as good as any other college.
If you're a poor kid going into an Ivy League, chances are the only thing you are going to get is a job being a fairly high paid worker, but don't expect becoming an executive in a fortune 500 company unless you come from a family of influence and used your stay to develop relationships with other rich kids and their families.
how do you know?
@@hehe-zt4zy take a wild guess
@@hehe-zt4zy They probably went to an ivy.
i went to one and the b school...yes in any setting 'networking benefits'...its 'not deals' at this level...its often simply obtaining an interview...you will get in the door but once in its up to you. I have a theory about alll the preasure cooker education received....i feel that these grads are the 'shock absorbers' for capital...often in the most demanding, long houred, areas....there is a whale of a price to pay for the money and lving in an overpriced place like NYC takes so much of it away on basics. These universities are also in a downward spiral culturally...when i see a North Korean escaped former sex slave who went to Columbia complain that the bs being taught in these schools....class/race warfare a la Alinsky...and knowing that Columbia apologized or ignored the reality of 50 of Stalin....its difficult to say 'this was the finest education' available...but i went there before they became CRT...i was deeply appreciative...it was an unholy 'ass kicker' yes they will flunk you out...but that..then....i wouldnt have done it any other way...
I would say there’s occasional acceptions to this case but I also agreed. It’s all setup so the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor or in this case middle class stay middle class. If people think these Ivy League schools are about intelligence and these noble principles they always claim to be upholding then they’re kidding themselves. If you manage to work your ass off you might pass the barrier of entry in the intelligence department. But if your family doesn’t come from money then the tuition is what you have to worry about. Usually not a problem for the richer ones who attend. See how they filter things ….. 🤷🏻♂️
Extrapolating someone's IQ based on their SAT score doesn't consider the intrensic bias of the test. Also, there isn't one way to define an Intelligence Quotient
Vocab doesnt equal intelligence lol
UnleashedPro926 totally. I’m a big fan of some of Jordans views but as a psychiatrist he should know better. He probably does and that only makes it worse
@@gerttopmuller The fact is that IQ(regardless of your personal definition of what intelligence is or what it should be) is the greatest predictor of career success and life satisfaction measured scientifically. People are afraid of this fact because the idea of something being assigned to you at birth, being unchangeable and having such a strong impact on your life scares people so that they are in denial about it. I think that Jordan Peterson of all people knows this more than anybody being a psychologist. He knows people want don't want to hear it yet he still says it
@@maguar5027 Having IQ being the greatest predictor of success in a world where people select for it despite evidence for or against it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
@@y_olk We don't always select for IQ. In fact there have been studies made that tell us for example that in interviews someone is way more likely to be chosen if they are for example tall, good looking and extraverted which in most cases has nothing to do with how competent they are at that job.
SAT and ACT are not a fair test of ability to succeed, you don't need to be good in every subject to be successful. In fact being good at one thing(one area such as math) is a better indication of potential).
There is an obsession to be good at many things when in truth most people are average or worse at doing most things and should concentrate on one or two they can do really well.
@@bluevan12 Our ancestors had be good at everything to survive. That's why we are here.
Why dont people understand that there are infinite types of intelligence. And you dont need an IQ or IVY to succeed. You can become fuckin anything. It is all about the impact.
This!! 💯
I found intelligent life
I wish I could agree with you, but some thing I found is that to achieve success you need smart people to trust and follow you, Ivy League schools give you a halo of credibility. you don’t NEED an ivy league background, but it definitely helps.
It's technically possible, but much harder, especially the further up the ladder you're trying to go. You want to get a solid, well-paying computer science job? Sure, you don't need any specific school. You want to lead a department at Google? It's in your best interest to aim as high as you can.
It's interesting to hear people talk about ivy League students being highly intelligent. In my school, we learned to be intuitive, learn fast, deal with very complex material, process huge amounts of data in record time. But above all, we learned one valuable lesson which is keep low profile and keep learning 😉
Which school you were at?
This guy makes a great point. You don’t get into an Ivy without stellar stats and these usually in most cases translate into highly successful intelligent people who are able to think on their feet and problem solve. This is exactly what any stellar company worth its weight wants in an employee.
Veterans with degrees are number 1 recruited group right now. Spoiled kids from Ivey league have high call out rates and bad attitudes
you do realize that the real world of elite college isn’t meritocratic…. right..? And that test scores aren’t an accurate measure of intelligence….They’re outdated and full of regurgitation not critical thinking…
It varies, but at the end of the day it’s you that matters. Your traits. You are special. No school will ever instill that. It’s a school with strengths and flaws. A lot more flaws than people realize
We don't have SATs in Mexico, but if you want to get into a public university, you still have to do an admission exam, top scores are the ones that get there, but that's the easy part, you still have to pass all subjects to graduate. Private schools, you only need to pay and you're in.
Bad Xerge can low income families send their kids to university?
In Portugal the best Colleges are the public ones. There are national admission exams and only the best get in. That way you cut a lot of bullshit. There's only one or two private schools that are worth it. If you are paying there's no way to get in the public universities. Also college only cost you 1k € per year (privates are between 4k - 6k)
Edward Anthony Yup, you can pay for it on your own, tuition per semester will go from 3,000-6,000 pesos and minimum wage is ~5,000 pesos a month. If your average is above 9.0 you get 50% discount and if it's above 9.5 you only pay administrative costs.
I can answer this for you. It’s a quick and easy way for HR to recruit kids. Ivy kids are no different than kids from regular schools. Maybe the only difference is SAT and ACT scores, but it’s not gonna help them with real life problems.
What's a real-life problem? Very hard to determine, since what some people take 2 decades to solve, some people do in 2 minutes, if we were still solving life problems we would never send a rocket to the moon, we ara far away ahead of that, not even close...
@@destruction1928 fun fact, one of my friends who nailed everything in an academic perspective, who’s so good that I can’t even dream to compete with, she was crying so hard today, because she couldn’t get her ielts test booked. In the end i had to book the test for her.
In any academic sense, I should never be accepted to a university that’s better than hers, but I still am the one that can get things done.
Maybe this is what real skills are?
@@destruction1928 you can have a degree but if you don't know how to be honest you're pretty much worthless.
But SAT/ACT isn't the only difference between the kids at all. Usually they also have much better writing skills, lots of extracurricular activities, leadership, and some kind of interesting narrative that resonates with the admissions committee. All of that PLUS the SAT/ACT does show that the kids tend to be very motivated, hardworking, talented and smart. The bitterness in these comments is sad. I didn't even go to an ivy league and it's not hard for me to see.
Yup that’s true but these universities don’t teach common sense. Most of which don’t have. They rely on pictures
General knowledge is not used for IQ tests. IQ tests abstract thinking and reasoning and is 'culture fair/neutral' which is why some children under 5 can score very highly; they do not know anything about the world yet but their problem solving talent is high. Very confused about why Jordan said this, he should know better.
"General knowledge is not used for IQ tests"
The WAIS-IV has what can be described as a general knowledge test that assesses your long term memory.
I understand your view, as problem solving ability is fluid intelligence aka IQ, while general knowledge is learned knowledge ie crystallised intelligence.
Since Jordan didn’t say that SAT directly tests for IQ, but said you can derive an IQ score from it, that probably means it can be acquired from the elements that test problem solving
As Sam Scott correctly observed, the most important and commonly used IQ test, the WAIS, has 11 scales. One of them is General Knowledge. If you think about it you'll see why general knowledge is related to general intelligence. The more intelligent you are, the more you will observe, the more you will read and the more you will pick up from the world around you. There is also a Vocabulary scale. The same principle holds here: the brighter you are the more you will pick up the meaning of words from their context. It is true though, that those brought up in disadvantaged situations would be at a disadvantage with regard to both these scales.
Because Jordan Peterson is not as intelligent as his acolytes believe he is.
If I'm the Harvard administration, then I see this reasoning as an indictment on the education at Harvard. If employers hire someone because they were able to get into Harvard, they're making that decision on the basis of what that person accomplished before coming to Harvard, not because of the education they received while there.
It’s about the network, right? Harvard is intensely aware of its reputation and arguably it is its reputation that matters most - everything coming out of the university is respected worldwide. Certainly having sway with the decision makers of the world is the greatest asset of a Harvard education, right? Information itself is too democratized now for any institution to honestly claim it can impart superior theory or intellectual development to others in its class. Harvard is all about the weight of the club - if you’re accepted, you matter. Period. At least, that’s what these companies see.
Looking forward to the full interview.
Lana!!!!!!!!! I am your subscriber.
If the professor is all knowing then who gave the colleges professors this knowledge? If the Angels where the all knowing then who gave them the knowledge? The Elite are the Angels servants! The Elites believed they where given a verbiage of their words to keep mankind from acknowledging that GOD encapsulated the earth cause they were removing the DNA of God and replacing strain of it to accommodate their own agenda. You are all under their personal effects as they have already carried you from generations to your death! The elite don’t care cause they want to know they believe they are superior to mankind even when angels have no reason to expect they the elite where using each other for profit! Elite have lost there right to even know that they are all in the Metaphysical realm which is “Space Force “ which the elite have hidden that everyone has been bought and sold when they piggyback your cellphone to benefit off of the lives and watch your family’s and foreign customers use this verbiage to perks to incriminate the people of the United States and profit sorry all the elite are no longer on the top of the world cause they are servants of the angels that lied to them.
Lies again? Ivy Fund
i don't think they hire because of "iq". they hire because these students usually have a top notch alumni network and are usually willing to work their asses off. emphasis on usually because history has shown there are enough students that just got in via wealthy parents and shady deals. than again, with parents this powerful and wealthy, you usually have an even more interesting network.
I believe the real quality ivy league student has their own business not working for someone else.
Everyone works for others. Some employees earn millions a year. Some with own business barely earn 40k. Own biz is not for everybody.
@@adwaye spoken as a true proletariat
@@adwaye nothing better than being your own boss.
I agree with a lot of this but the claim about SAT being a proxy for IQ is absurd. I’ve definitely read that the biggest determinant of SAT score is your parents’ income.
Connor Hawley is it possible for a very low IQ person to score very high on an SAT test? I highly doubt it.
Connor Hawley Can you explain?
@@dezertson2011 no but you have better resources to succeed
@@dezertson2011 I'm saying if your poor you don't have enough resources. Most people in ivy league schools r from well off zip codes. I'm not saying they are smarter .
@@dezertson2011 I'm talking about Americans not Indians
If someone from a private university that isn’t an Ivy League graduates with a better gpa and degree than a Harvard student and they both apply for the same job, Would you leave the person with the higher degree just because the other person came from Harvard. That is just rubbish. The university a person attends should not be a determining factor for if he or she may get a job. If that’s how the companies actually work then we might as well return to the aristocracy period. Since that’s what you mean. Might I also remind you that Ivy League schools cost a lot, that is why mostly only rich kids get into that school. Your mindset on this matter is clouded and you need a change of view.
It depends on the university. It's disingenuous to act like the GPA has the same value everywhere you go. At lower-ranked schools, the standards are set lower, the class progresses through the material in less depth and at a slower pace, and the other students aren't as high-achieving. It takes less work to stand out in a place like Fresno Community College than it would to be the valedictorian of Harvard, where many students are very accomplished and driven.
The way schools admit applicants is completely different than how companies hire applicants. One uses grades and test scores and the other uses job skills, work experience, personality, how well you interview and having connections help. The way he suggests employers should hire is like a man choosing a wife based on how much money she makes and what she does for a living or a woman choosing a husband based on how young and slim he is.
1) Standardized tests are generally very culturally biased and 2) Harvard in particular (but this is applicable to all ivies) have factors that allow otherwise undeserving students to get in, e.g. legacy system, athletic participation, relation to staff, relation to donors
When all of these factors are considered together, it becomes abundantly clear that graduation from an Ivy league institution is a poor proxy for intelligence
Your logic in this paragraph is a good proxy for your poor intelligence.
@@jasonpark4293 lol found the guy who went to harvard
If you’re thinking of a career with work life balance and experience life without focusing 100% on the materialistic rewards which some consider achievements ..... stay away from those Ivy League school and BIG companies .... working 40 hours a week, commuting 10hours and sleeping 40 hours ...that’s already 90/168 hours a week. More than 50% of time is spend for this and you only have 40% time for excercise, food, family , friends , entertainment......it’s not worth your life.... that’s excluding overtime at work and working on weekend.....make less money to earn more time for yourself is a good bargain....
Making less money isn't an option for those who buy above average cars , travel abroad alot and have more than 2 kid, most parents work so much so they can give their kids a good life style
@@Traumatised311 there is always an option ….. there is also always a reason….those who made the choices knowingly cant play victim, they pretty well knew wat they signed up for….
@@rk8946 that's true but common sense is not common unfortunately , people have 3 kids then say we can't afford the childcare so my wife is a stay at home mom cause that's a better financial decision , or they splurge money , also if someone buys an average car and makes good investment they would get better returns , if they have one or two kids wife can work when they go to school , less hectic schedule , but they sign up up stupid things, I can't believe educated people having more than one kid in America like come on u guys, u want careers and also 3,4 kids 😐🤐🙏
Finally someone with true intelligence.
So why does Harvard openly discriminate against whites and Asians in favour of low to mediocre performing blacks and hispanics?
You are the epytome of selfhatred dude I will pray for you
Peterson is right to point out that it's better to have the smartest rather than the dullest people in leadership positions, but he's wrong to assume that having the smartest people in leadership positions is better or equal to having the wisest people in those positions.
Right. Going to an Ivy League school proves not only that you’re educated... but that you are capable of achieving very hard things.
30% of Harvard student got in via "special program" meaning their parents are either very famous and influental or they paid a lot of money to get in even tho they didnt have grades good enough
@@urosuros2072 where did you get that info? show me the authentic source of students getting via those "special program". Besides, Harvard is need-blind, which means that "Your financial need and your aid application will never affect your chance of being admitted to Harvard."
How are SATs a measure of IQ? I know people who scored well on these exams simply because they had individual training each evening and weekend. That's like saying we have the best wr in football because we have the fastest player in the league. It's not that simple and if this guy had the "problemsolving" skills that he claims he's looking for then he would know that. A test can't measure a persons desire to work hard and develop his/her skills. We need to drop these antiqated forms of entitled measurements. Let's examine people holistically.
I typically like to hear Jordan speak, however, on this topic, the host (Patrick) is testament to what Jordan said in this snip as NOT being the case. There will always be exceptions to the rule, but it appears that the folks with the most tenacity and willingness to work hard are the ones that are truly successful.
He said it’s a (good) proxy. Hence he highlights a correlational relationship. He is right.
C_R_O_M__________ Bruh... so now everyone that scores below the Ivy League standard for the SAT is essentially are incompetent?...COOLIO
Lol good luck with that non-objective approach! It would likely have more bias
How do you suggest that we measure people, then? The process is already holistic. It isn't just about grades, they also look for extracurriculars, difficult circumstances in life, leadership, etc.
I thought they read your essay and decide if you match their diversity quotas
is this why the over half the ivies are white? but but but i thought whites were being discriminated against???
Yup me an Asian is crying bc there is a specific quota that’s lower than the rest😭
@@86SuperRay I lost brain cells trying to read and comprehend your comment. America is majority white by quite a sizable margin so it would only make sense that most if not all colleges except for HBCU'S would be majority white. There is already hardcore evidence that Harvard is trying to push diversity so much that they are purposely turning down over qualified white and Asian students to try and take on more students from other ethnic backgrounds.
@@yellowballoon4143 the biggest benefactor of aa is white women
@@86SuperRay Yea, too bad we're talking specifically about Harvard and not AA as a whole. Way to try and switch lanes.
In the late 60s, I studied for the SAT by using study guides available in book stores for very little. No tutoring, no practice tests. I did very well in verbal and English Achievement, so maybe that reflected my IQ - but my math score was very average despite studying and practice tests on my own. All this over-tutoring and prepping is really not necessary to do well in the SAT. The SAT reflects verbal and mathematical talent, and material you have covered in class or can figure out on your own. At least in my time it did.
A very interesting perspective to hear. I like when people attempt to make the case for why traditional education has any validity in today's world because we have people left and right becoming millionaires on the internet without ever going to college let alone for some highschool. I still don't think college should be what the prices are for admission and truly wish they made you think more about things that make sense in the real world and is always up to date, but that's why one day I still believe they'll be forced to only do only education and make it a very affordable subscription model that if you want access to it, it's there and far more accessible to all.
The fact that legacy applications and candidates from ivy feeders have a greater absolute probability of getting into these ivy schools does bear the question though. Given a choice of merit or money, will these "institutes of excellence" not be willing to compromise on meritocracy?
Honestly, just dive a little deeper in any aspect of today's society and you see how hollow everything actually is.
Ivy League schools go by the student parents names more than SAT scores.
Well, a bit out dated. They reduce Asian sats. The reduce white sats. The increase Black sats by a lot. So how does this work for knowing you hired the best of the best?
Peterson’s point is well taken. I’m sure those schools offer a good education, but practically all of the students are already outstanding people when they arrive. If you get somebody who’s smart, ambitious, driven, and maybe a little vicious then as long as you don’t screw him up too badly he’s still going to be those things four years later.
"SAT is a proxy for IQ" I think you mean "proxy for means to study for the SAT" .
On the one hand it's a tragedy for a person to persistently try for jobs beyond their IQ level but on the other it's wrong to tell a person they are unintelligent.
If that the case then Google , IBM, and apple should start making college degree a requirement for job applicant. But then you have Bill Gate, Zuckerberg, and Steve jobs richest people on earth who don’t have or didn’t finish their degree.
yes but these people left Harvard.... not some random unknown college. They did not drop out on a whim, but because they had a greater plan for their future.
@@laylaphan7095Steve jobs did not go to Harvard
@@paulsharma4807 not all people can demonstrate their inner intellectual curiosity and personality. The thing was, "Steve Jobs later explained that he felt the college education he was receiving was too expensive for his working-class parents and that he didn't see the value in it at that time."
I thought that the SAT prior to being recentered, so pre-1995, was correlated with IQ, but anything past that doesn’t correlate. Some high IQ societies use SAT scores prior to 2005, so perhaps there’s still some correlation of SATs from 1995-2005, but none that I can find use SAT scores past that. Is this not true? Am I misinformed or is Peterson wrong in saying that IQ currently correlates with SAT scores?
Back when the SAT was taken without any aids or tools?
He’s not wrong as we’re talking about a correlation. A correlation doesn’t have to be a perfect 1 to 1 linear relationship, it can be weakly to strongly correlated. I think it’s reasonable to assume that IQ and SAT scores have at least a weak correlation.
Ivies get your foot through the door but that’s it. Almost all ceos are not ivy grads. I work for Deloitte and most upper management positions are from non-ivy schools. It’s overblown.
The SAT is not a proxy for IQ. If it were, then formal instruction and dedication to studies would be irrelevant; the largely congenital nature of intelligence would prevail and allow indifferent students from poor-quality schools to achieve scores just as high as those obtained by the most dedicated students from the best schools. But of course, that really doesn't happen.
Still, large data sets lend themselves to overbroad and dangerous conclusions like Peterson's. For example, suppose we administered IQ tests to two groups of people: (1) all American adults who are presently employed; and (2) all American adults who are presently unemployed. Doubtless, the first group would have a higher average IQ because the second group would contain far more people with serious impediments: dyslexia, mental illness, drug abuse, alcoholism, etc. But of what value is the generally higher IQ of employed group when assessing an investment banker who became unemployed two months ago? Can we reliably conclude that his IQ is likely to be lower simply because he's in the unemployed group? The point is that human performance is deeply affected by time, place, and circumstance and that people succeed or fail for different reasons, so drawing broad-stroke conclusions about large groups is stupid.
I've noticed this even in my own work as a lawyer. Believe it or not, here in New Jersey, we sometimes encounter people who are associated with organized crime. although many of them are rather wealthy, virtually none of these people has a college degree, and many dropped out of high school after getting terrible marks. Still, a wildly disproportionate number of their children have attended elite schools and joined elite professions. And no, they didn't buy them in---not directly anyway. Query: how does the son of two dropouts win early admission to Columbia? Because raising a kid in a wealthy neighborhood with great schools will raise academic performance regardless of heredity. Consider in this vein George W. Bush. Your ears tell you that he's a factory worker. Yet he obtained a very good (if not outstanding) SAT score: 1200+. What conclusion can we draw from that? Is Bush simply very good at masking his intelligence? Or did enjoying every socioeconomic advantage known to man help an average person achieve above-average test scores?
Also a true story. THE IV League education system on this planet is named in honor of Alan Iverson. He attended every single one of my kingdom creation classes for twelve thousand years. Isdaore- he has won Olympics- plays on the expert basketball league- wrote portions of the bible- held many "suffrage" conversations and promise for punishment for both the African slave trade and the Jewish holocaust and upon returning home will be offered a permanent position on Isadores royal court now known as the 16th chappel. God has a couple different chairs for him to consider and he is pretty much qualified for any chair that he choses. Frankly- he deserves it and he earned it.
The baseline employee just has to be so much more justified than “he has a great personality”
I had an ophthalmology consultant who wanted to work in private clinics in UK such as spa medica as they pay amazing hourly rates compared to the NHS however the competition is intense. He was boasting how he has earned his medicine degree from Oxford and blah blah I told him let me forward your CV in a weeks time the clinic replied “ Doctor doesn’t meet our requirements and is not suitable for the job “
Long story short it doesn’t matter where you study from
How is he defining incompetence towards the end of this video? Elitist mindsets make me absolutely SICK. 🤮
What do you mean?
He didn't say that non Ivy's are incompetent
Good connection means get hire.
It’s very easy to get into a IVY LEAGUE school. Take 12 credits on a non matriculated basis, get straight A. Then state that you wish to matriculate toward a degree program…you’re in. All you need to do is demonstrate that you can do honors level coursework.
lol
it is not so easy to get into harvard that way.
This tells me that you have no idea how these processes actually work. First of all, getting straight As is not easy, especially if you're in a decent school where the standards aren't very low. There are also TONS of kids with good grades in AP/IB/etc. programs and only a few seats. The grades alone are not enough to get accepted. Typically the selected students have a lot of leadership, a compelling narrative, and interesting extracurriculars that they show commitment to.
@@rlkinnard For you perhaps before anyone else it is that easy all you have to do is prove that you can do honors level work in fact that’s one of the criteria for people who wanna do MBA to remote learning on Harvard‘s degree coursework that’s online look it up do your homework instead of shooting off with your mouth
@@Mina-np5pl it’s true A’s are hard if you’re stupid but if you have reasonable intelligence and you work hard Ace or quite easy stupid people can’t learn no matter what so you’re right in that respect with respect to getting into schools if you’re going to a school and a traditional level yes but there are many ways to get a college degree and you don’t always have to do the four years live or on the campus sort of thing a lot of people were doing they go to school at night and or a lot of people go online the idea is to get a degree not to necessarily have the college experience you want to get the coursework you want to get to degree online is the best way or night school or adult education especially continuing adult education there are many ways to skin a cat narrowminded people always see obstacles which is why they’re easily stumped
Ivy League: Touching Ivy sap alone can cause contact or allergic contact dermatitis, which is a very itchy-and uncomfortable-rash. Contact with English ivy can also cause swelling and shortness of breath.
This is absolutely true. Except when it has a percentage of acceptance that is invalid or nepotistic because of money.
It's not difficult to bribe your way in or be part of a certain family. I refuse to hire Ivy League.
SAT is not a reliable proxy for IQ as it may be thought out to be. At this point, it is simply an indicator of who studied more for it. So it's still valid that it may be an indicator of diligence and wealth (for professional prep).
I want to study in universities like ivy league, stanford etc. But gre,toefl scores are mandatory here.I am not financially able to pay the application fee for TOEFL,GRE exams (even if I get a fee waiver). I'm not able to pay applications fee of these unis. There are so many intelligent students who are studying in normal colleges due to their situations. These types of top colleges are for intelligent+wealthy family students.
In this case I agree with JP... especially since I got into Harvard the hard way (i.e. no SAT prep, no tutors, no admissions advisor, sending in app at the deadline, arguing during the interview, no sleep 😴, valedictorian, tons of extracurricular leadership).
Yeah, you're a real hero, pal.
Jealousy, jealousy... misery, misery
@@paulrivera5231 Ad hominem arguments occupy a pretty low station in general, but the you're-just-jealous gibe stands out for being particularly lazy and desperate. You're a self-congratulating doofus, and there are plenty of reasons other than jealousy to find that loathsome.
You deserve the congrats since that reply is the most important thing you do in your pathetic, useless life. I mean doofus, wow that’s great for a four year old, but it sounds so sagacious coming from you.
@@paulrivera5231 You write like an imbecile. How many times did you check “Hispanic” on your application?
Honestly I have 0 problem with that, it just completely makes sense.
Why did the Ivy League graduate bring a ladder to the bar? Because he heard the drinks were on the house and thought his diploma would help him figure it out!
This is touching on something I have always wondered.
Peterson said that companies hire Ivy League Graduates because the admissions processes at these schools has already done the weeding out for them.
Ok, so if someone is accepted to an Ivy League school but does not attend an Ivy League School, should they indicate on their resume that they were accepted at a prestigious school?
Do, or would, companies consider just the acceptance at the school as grounds for hiring those employees ?
YES, most definitely, in my humble opinion, obtainment of an Ivy League School Acceptance {LETTER } in 2023 and beyond [assuming clean criminal record & verifiable community interaction] to be valued at $235, 837, 934. 99 over a 7 year period following completion of a Bachelor's Degree in Business Administration from a nationally accredited university.
@@barryfitzhugh8739 Thanks, my question was an honest one, I honestly do not have a strong opinion one way or the other. I have discussed this issue with friends for years.
Would you go so far as to say that someone who was accepted to an Ivy league school, but never attended, is in a better position in the job market than someone with a completed degree from a state school?
Everything else remaining equal of course.
@@michaelterry1000 JOB MARKET ⁉️ The probability of a High-Tech trained millennial who earned an Ivy League acceptance letter becoming an Owner/CEO of a multimillion 💵💰 startup limited liability corporation increases exponentially with the notable inclusion of an Ivy League acceptance letter Critical Thinking Prowess.
A lot of people choose schools like MIT, Stanford and Caltech over ivies. And for good reason.
None of Ivy League students could ever be the next luis Miguel, Jose Jose, Elvis Presley, Michael Jackson, frank Sinatra, Freddie Mercury. Because singing talent is not like iq those singers were born with natural talent for singing. You can’t teach natural talent for singing. You are born with talent
great saying... so straight forward... I like it
Why should you hire Ivy League graduates? Not because they are the smartest, hardest working, but in order to get in to Ivy League now is more important not WHAT you know, but WHOM you know.
1st of all this correlation used to be the case but manny years ago the way SAT is scored changed and now correlation with intelligence is much lower
2nd 30% of Harvard student got in Harvard via "special program" meaning their parents are either very famous and influental or they paid a lot of money to get in even tho they didnt have grades good enough. So 1/3 of students did not even deserve to be there
Not even counting people who get their degree because of sports etc...
He talked like only ivy league students are smart or are the only people who should benefit from society
He sounds like he got a stick shoved up his ass. He thinks SAT scores are everything.
No he didn’t.
Not all Ivy school have low acceptance rate. Caltech and MIT are more difficult than most Ivies.
The thing is, the USA is a land of marketing genius.
An example of society in which incompetent people succeed and are put in front : Romania 2019
Most eastern Europe
Vrei sa te referi la lume in general stai linistit ca nici americanii sau orice alta tara sunt mai rasariti
Where is full interview?
It comes after the short teaser highlights.
200k for a degree that's puts you in a job making 100k maybe, lol. Take 100k and invest in 10 stocks. 2.5% gains is $2500 a day! No degree on earth pays that. Stay broke and fooled if you choose.
Yeah cuz you can make 8000% annual returns, lmao get a grip
@@hakans9205i
I've earned 7% in a day on my portfolio silly jerk
But sat score barely matters. Most kids with high sat scores get rejecged. Its the bare minimum
Was it impossible to get in outside of a high SAT score? What about the rich people who paid to get their kids in? How many of them are there? Could you address this Jordan?
I am not Jordan but let me address. First of all even if those with low SAT scores did get in-and if you are implying they are incompetent- then they will most likely fail when the sweeps of higher cognitive ability is needed. Essentially, in the long term they suck.
the amount of assumptions and generalisations in his claims makes me doubt his credentials as a rational psychologist.
- is the sat score the only criteria to get in?
- is the sat score the right reflection of intelligence/IQ?
- are all companies that hire from ivy looking for high intelligence, or they value social and interpersonal skills more?
- do people with low IQ and high quality of education have a higher chance of making it to IVY than people with high IQ and low quality of education?
to find the answers, you just have to look at any batch sample from ivy and track their economic and educational background, I assume a sample would consist more of basic IQ, high quality education than high IQ and low quality education.
"Incompetent people who do nothing succeed ... that cannot happen ..." Oh yes it can! Come to Brazil, you will see the impossible come true!
Happens all over the world. this guy is trying to make Harvard rich. he is lying
@@chrisle2674 I'm not sure if he's trying to make anyone rich, but he is certainly a bit naive. Incompetent leaders are the norm in my experience.
@@bennettbullock9690 then they are not so incompetent as you think lol
@@bennettbullock9690 only incompetence I see are college kids who think they paid their dues and demand prestige everywhere they go. Worthless as far as progression. You call these leaders?
Most people buy their way into an Ivy league... Jordan is pretty much wrong here. There are very few slots for real merit students + fees are prohibitively expensive for most people, even after they make it on merit. There are very few ivy league schools that waive of fees for smart candidates.
1:48, Peterson says America is "essentially Meritocratic" Really? Get the f**k outta here!
It is mostly meritocratic. If you get a 1600 on the SAT, you should get better scholarships or get into a better college.
This wasn’t a very logical take...
essentially, meritocratic....right
And we wonder why society is messed up. When he said we don’t want “incompetent” people to run society he’s essentially calling everyone with an SAT score beneath the standard of an Ivy League school incompetent. Apparently incompetence is now measured by a test that is very segregational. COOLIO
@@oyasoominasai6306 Yeah, better that, than to risk assessing someone non-objectively. There is a reason why we have state examinations, IQ tests(use by military) and various other objective measurements. I am not saying these are “perfect” measurements I am saying it is the best we got to assess someone. :/
Very true, top selective schools picking the top students in achievement thus ave student at that school will be more successful than average student at non selective school.
"first of all" it does happen, with alarming regularity.
because they are the best at what they're hired/studying for probably in the world.
Their staff very refined, they refine their own sugar. They are not wild flowers lol.
"Incompetent people who do nothing - succeed?" - sums up Russia / FSU pretty much
I would take this 100x more serious if you some groups didn't pay or use connections to get in😂
And half a million in debt 😃😃
Endowments and legacy admissions... I wouldn't hire an ivy league student.
Lot of people salty about Ivy League schools..why?
This guy Jordan Peterson.
His fans really act like he’s been some suppressed voice or that he’s some critics.
At the end of the day he’s all about preserving the order of today for tomorrow, maybe just touch up a few things.
Not just this, but in general. He’s like the conservative Malcolm Gladwell.
Instead of being juvenile and fantastic in his thinking’s he’s more like “10 reasons why your Grandfather is right about looking for jobs on the internet”.
Guy has no courage, and that’s why he’s hated by the extreme on both sides, and you see it with his fans too.
They aren’t one side or another on anything, they just play the center and have a martyr complex about things when they’re called out.
Mandela's Cellmate why you associate being juvenile with being fantastic? The two are independent. Moreover, to state that he has no courage when he jeopardized his academic career when he decided that he’s going to say (what he considers) the truth, even when that truth was a scarcity among his colleagues and the Academia in general, is quite wrong. I also think that you got his “conservatism” wrong, he is more like “pay attention to the past and see it as a continuation of what’s now the present” rather than “submit to past practices no questions ask”. That’s not conservatism that’s a clear view of history.
In your thinking?
I would say being juvenile and fantastic in your thinking is for children, unless you’re writing a story book.
dezertson2011 Yeah nothing is anything, everything is nothing, no need to make associations because dezertson2011 doesn’t think it’s appropriate.
Wow, thanks for the awesome level of feedback.
dezertson2011 No, I’ve watched more than one clip of JP, which is pretty clear from my comment.
So I’m not “jumping to conclusions”.
But I’m sure you read the 12 rules book where most of it he’s just talking about how much he loves his daughter or talking about how he was attracted to his cousin or how he wanted to assault a small child.
Just be honest:
This is your attempt at trying to silence criticism because I insulted your surrogate father and you don’t know how to deal with that.
dezertson2011 just ignore that this is the exact same sentiment uttered by “cultural Marxist neo-communist” Barack Obama after the 2008 crash.
When your point of view and solutions are the same as your enemies, what are you really even quibbling over?
But you don’t want to talk or think, you want to worship Jordan Petersen.
Working with some of these people… their arrogance was too great for them to learn anything from a veteran. Oh well you want to learn the hard way? Learn the hard way I guess.
As always JP is giving all the right explanation.
Bro this whole clip is clown level
The SAT is a proxy for IQ? I mean I went to an ivy league and I am somewhat of an imbecile, so there's that
Nobody understands what JP ils saying, even hé doesn't seem yo.
Getting into an Ivy league Scholl is not a mater of intelligence or consiensiousness.
Those are juste détails, parts of a much bigger picture
Getting in here is about DRIVE. Thats what they look for. Its the single best indicator for success.
Driven individuals are thé most likely to produce the best results. They become the best athlets, lawyers, politicians, journalists and entrepreneurs
Robots basically
We should give Jordan Peterson the Nobel price for most intelligent man. That dude is the genius that brought us the theory of relativity.
yah he is a big idiot trying to help Harvard make more money. No hiring manager gives a dam about Ivy league
Jordan Peterson is a joke.
Multinational corporations hire the BEST available Ivy Leaguers First 🥇 because it exponentially increases the profitability achievement of the corporation as a whole due to the fact the Ivy Leaguers are coming in with a mindset of the corporation genuinely valuing his formidable skillsets to exponentially increase the Global Marketing Presence 💵 💰 of the corporation in ⁉️
Not the case, people develop on college too.
Problem solving ability
U said
This makes a lot of $en$e! 😎
John 15:10
come to INDIA ONE SUCH THING IS KNOWN AS IIT
Lots of sour grapes comments from non Ivy leaguers….😂
This man has not been in Spain 🤣🤣🤣🤣Meritocracy🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Hard working 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Fairy tales.