Thank you, and you all are appreciated. I sometimes have some of the younger crowd stopping by trolling me saying how my videos don't get a lot of views and list the reasons why i'm no good, or I get genuinely nice people saying the same thing about low views. But my followers are nice, they comment etc. What the naysayer's _don't_ see (that I see as only I can see my analytics) is that my audience will watch pretty much my entire video, no matter the video. That makes my watch duration literally 3-4 times longer than a lot of people's videos. So lets say I get 5,000 views, that's really 20,000 views worth of minutes compare to an average video on RUclips. That gives me the ability to keep making videos, which is great!
Sam, you are well spoken and actually show the difference between bullets and firearms. You put work and thought into what you do. Maybe it's not for everyone? Some people are just mean keyboard trolls who have never done much in life. They would be happy to watch machine guns destroy something all day long, with no analysis. All the best and stay well!
@@GunSam I never worry about what youngsters say. One day they will be old (aka experienced) and they will wonder why young idiots are talking THEM down, when they KNOW more than the youngsters? The circle of life catches up to everyone. And they realize, one day, that THEY were the ignorant way back when
@@GunSam, hey man. I'm part of the younger crowd and I think your videos are great. A lot of your haters might not be part of the gun community and may be parts of other communities that are just stopping by to negative (film snobs and video game addicts are always "experts" on other people's channels yet rarely make videos themselves).
Sam . I was viewing the comments and read about the younger generation shooters. as a reloader of 42 years, more calibers and honest testing than I could remember can say a lot of them don’t know what there talking about. not trying to be mean or rude but always ready and willing to help them from get rid of the training wheels to become a rifleman. but like I was 42 years ago I didn’t know a drop in a bucket. after all these years I am a old dog that can learn new tricks. now disabled I have so much to offer a realize that my years may not be many more. with a treasure chest of knowledge and experience to share with outhers when I die it will die with me . iam not complaining iam joyful to see my blessed savior. but it saddens me so many want to shoot but not listen and learn. maybe I expect to much of people. Nana and papa aka the hunter from the foothills of the blue ridge mountains in North Carolina wishing you the best of the world.
I’m so glad you did this. My .44 Special handload is almost an exact duplicate of that Underwood load. This gives me a much better idea of what I can expect. Thank you.
Really enjoyed this vid ! I’ve carried both on the mountain trails, hot loaded .44 specials & hot loaded .45 acp’s . Really nice to see that they perform as I hoped they would. Love the hard cast tests! Great job Sam.
Thank you. It's always a little weird for me to do these tests as I love how hollow points explode the bologna and stop short. It's more difficult to decipher a solid bullet and once the bullet gets to jug 5 and beyond the comparison/calibration to ballistic gel becomes inaccurate, but it's still fun to see what happens.
A long time ago this was always my standard test. I would do water jugs, no bologna pack but I always had 2x4's to test penetration too. If you look back at my videos 2-3 years ago all had the wood test lol.
Looks like both hard casts rounds would penetrate the skull of a bear. I really appreciate the .44 Special test since I have been thinking about a S&W Model 69 and, as far as I can determine, no one else has tested .44 Special ammunition. A comparison between Underwoods .44 hard cast Vs an Underwood Extreme Penetrator and Extreme Defender .44 Special rounds would REALLY be interesting!👍
People won't like me saying this, but both of those loads would stop a grizzly if you put it in the right spot. Spine or brain pan even with these and he's stopping immediately. Elmer Keith said his working man's woods defense load was a 255gr hardcast at 950 fps, and he carried that load for plinking and even in areas where he knew a bear encounter might occur.
.44 Special 255 gr. LSWC @ 1000 MV is pretty much the infamous "Skeeter Load" that Skeeter Skelton himself concocted back in the 50's to use in his Model 24 for Police work when he as a Def County Sheriff. Developed with a similar mind-set as the .38 Super Police round, in that its easy on the shooter but hard on the intended victim. Legendary man/bear stopper round.
Awesome. Love this hardcast series! I know the 10mm has the reputaion as a "woods" gun, but if all you have now is a .45 acp, it seems like it would serve you just as well (or close enough) with this Underwood ammo.
@@GunSam There's an article floating around out there, had seen it on TheFirearmBlog at one time about a guy using a S&W 5900 series gun. Think it was a 5904 but guy had Buffalo Bore hardcast load 147gr, killed a Grizzly with it. Hard cast in a lot of calibers can make a huge difference on penetration.
@@Predalien195 He got lucky and it went for the couple he was guiding. He was able to draw on it while it was distracted. He shot it like 6 times and it walked off into the woods to die so it's hard to say how well that would work against a bear coming straight at you.
I'll be reloading soon. Got all my gear and supplies. Thanks for the inspiration. I just wish I lived in the woods so I could shoot anytime. Good news is I'm 12 minutes drive from a shooting range.
Now you're talking about 2 of my favorite cartridges. I shoot both alot. A colt 1911. And a ruger 44 mag Blackhawk. That just loves 44 spls. I have taken 2 white tailed deer with 44 spl. Awsome video. Thank you and God bless 😊
@@Lateralus1007 There’s no guarantee you’re going to get a second shot off with a big high caliber revolver either. I’m definitely not against revolvers, I’m still considering getting one as well. A charging bear will cause panic no matter what firearm you have. Revolvers are obviously slower but more reliable.
@@soulprovider915 I hear you Just the flat nose seemed unreliable in the auto loader Maybe an xtp bullet They penetrate well and have a more conical shape to help loading
@@Lateralus1007 you know what, now that you mention that my Ruger American absolutely hates anything flat including pyramid shaped hollow points. They have to have some type of rounding on the sides leading up to the flat surface. I can’t even pull the slide back and get the first one in. I’ll check out what you recommend. Maybe I could get a single action revolver and do a Clint Eastwood style rapid fire from the hip LOL
Awesome test of ammo options! seeing your other videos proves to me that bullet mfg 100% plays into bullet accuracy. Governor put out the best numbers that the ammo allows! Like your content.
I've always liked these 255 underwoods. Would make a decent woods/trail gun. I'd say 10mm or 357./44. Mag would be better if Grizzlies were around but in most of the lower 48 i wouldn't feel underpowered with a few mags of these and a Government sized 1911 that ran well 🤟 good video
now this 255 gr Underwood with Keith(? correct if wrong) bullet I still have for my ParaOrdnance P 14-45, my velocities were closer to 900 fps but the penetration was abnormally high for 45 ACP. These two loads would be applicable even in Alaska.
Thats because they ARE HARD CAST BULLETS. That's what they are designed to do. Abnormal penetration.. and your exactly right. Alaska style woods defense is what these guys are intended for.. alot of people can't go drop 1300 bucks on a nice 454 casull. And even more people don't feel great about the 5 round capacity associated with revolvers. This is an option to turn your daily carry gun into a decent woods gun . And in that sense they are great.. when a 1000 lb grizzly has an hankering for some human , you want all the abnormal penetration you can get
Good reference to SD. Also remember that the boards likely could had been cracked prior to the Spc being fired. Might use two different packs. Most don't know how effective cast can be or how deep a hard cast can penetrate. Thanks for the video.
.44 spl has been stopping fights since around 1870. Once was the favored and darling cartridge of the Texas Rangers. And acouple of slug improvements has made it even more effective .
Very nice. Looks like further evidence of why SWC's are favored for hunting- the shoulder cuts a bit and cores through. I know a lot of handloaders make loads like this with a 250 or 255 gr bullet, within standard pressures. The 44 Spl has a lot of potential that is not fully used by ammo companies. Any plans to test any of the full wadcutter "antipersonnel" loads? Or the BB 190 gr SWCHP vs a 200 gr 45 ACP HP (that one will probably be jacketed)?
I shot some of the Underwood wadcutters that I believe as as good as Buffalo Bore loads of the 200 gr wadcutter, but I didn't test them. I might have to test them in the jug or not box.
@@GunSam Thank you. I appreciate your additional comments. I have no experience with .40 or .45's. I was down at the farm killing pumpkins today. As you would expect, they don't stop anything.
I cast and handload, and use a bullet for the 45 Colt in the ACP cartridge. It ends up 260 grains when cast from wheel weight alloy, and has a large .360" meplat (flat on the nose). That flat is what does the "work" in solids, and my loads chop nasty holes through stuff, even at only 900 FPS. The downside (and- I'm certain- the reason Underwood doesn't use one like it) is that it may not feed well in every 45 ACP pistol. With revolvers, one has a lot more leeway in bullet profile. This test is a good example of how bullets of similar diameter, weight, material,and velocity can give distinctly different performance on soft tissue just by virtue of that meplat.
I have always been under the impression that the wide nose is considered a Keith style and makes a 158 gr a 170 gr, a 240 gr a 255 gr but the overall length of the bullet is the same as the 158 or 240 gr bullet, so you can load them with 158 gr or 240 gr charges. I am not an expert in that field but is this about right?
@@GunSam pretty much; cylindrical shape (as opposed to conical) of the nose and placement of the crimp groove...the diameter of the meplat is more or less a byproduct of that cylindrical nose shape. There are also LBT-style that aren't SWC that have large meplats and get a lot of bullet out of the case, and they are pretty much the ne plus ultra of cast bullets for hunting. The bullet I use in 45 ACP is actually a round-nose flat point like the Underwood 45 ACP, but the meplat on mine is much larger (it's the LEE PRECISION 452-255). it runs fine in several different firearms I've tried it in, but I'm sure there are some that would have issues feeding. If you handload, I could send you some of them, properly sized to .452" and lubed, along with some load data (from a manual so you could be confident in the source).
@@GunSam One other point in JHP VS Lead swc/LBT , an all lead bullet ( no gas check ) has less friction , so you can load with low pressure & still get good speed . For live targets I would want a SWC HP , if I need more than that , get the 44 rifle with 240gr XTP @ Full Power !! = 1750 FPS
@@noahmercy-mann4323 I hand load and have all 4 dies to do a good job with .45 ACP, but I haven't loaded in awhile as i'm always overrun with all of the factory ammo I get lol.
Good shooting Sam and A good video sir. Looks like I’ll be getting some 45acp’s hard cast for my G21 I’m up in the air about my smith 686-6 I’m sticking to the HTP’s 158 g sjhp.
@@GunSam darn that's true like two weeks ago 😂😂😂. 🤔🤔 Do you have any 45ACP Revolver. It will be interesting to see if 45ACP has better performance on a revolver than semi auto
You could install a slanted piece of sheet metal beneath that box to channel all the water to the rear into a single place. Probably keep everything a bit less soggy.
Haha, with all I have to deal with in this videos I never really thought much about it.....but, you know the biggest issue I have? MUD. I have to swap my woods shoes for my regular shoes before getting in the car, or hose off my military boots to be able to drive, and it's all on account of the water coming forward. I should put some gravel down and a gutter out the rear lol
@@GunSam I was thinking a trough-shaped piece of sheet metal under that deck slanting backward to take all the runoff to the rear would help. In other news....Just heard today, with Remington's chapter 11, Ruger was able to buy Marlin firearms. Also heard per Tom Gresham on Guntalk as he had a Ruger individual interviewing with him discussing the Marlin acquisition, Ruger plans to release a new 10/22 Leveraction 22. I bet the Marlin line expands and innovates. Super good stuff.
I would feel comfortable with both rounds on a trail. One thing. I wouldn't use that 45 in my 1911. Just wouldn't feed well with that shape. My HK USP should work well with it though. Great test
@@cirocundin nope not true, gonna have to stop you right there!!! the hardcast in a polygonal rifled barrel has been proven false over and over. that being said, you have to understand that hardcast and lead bullets are 2 different things entirely!!! a properly hardened hardcast will not lead a polygonal barrel, but it doesn't even matter, cause underwood runs theirs at a brinel hardness of 21, and anything over 18 is ok. also underwood does the hi-tech coating, and doubletap uses a gas check, and buffalo bore is very good about properly sizing their bullets as well as hardening them, I've shot underwood in a stock glock barrel, and been fine on many occasions, just clean it well and you'll be fine!!!
Thanks. As far as Underwood ammo goes I get either from Midwayusa or from Underwood's website themselves. I also get Buffalo Bore hard cast from Midwayusa. I can't recall buying hard cast ammo from anywhere else.
Great video, can never get too much .44 Special. Was a little surprised at the large extreme spread on the Underwood .44 Special. How about some .45 Colt? That’s just easy horsepower.
Thanks. I may or may not test .45 Colt at some point but do not own a firearm in it. If I was to get one I might either get a .460 Mag S&W in a 4" or 6" barrel, or a Governor/Judge revolver. Just haven't decided really.
I really enjoy working up 255-275 grain cast loads at 800-1025 fps in dedicated .45 Colt N-frames, and just got my hands on a Ruger Bisley so I can start blasting 325 grainers.
I find it odd that Underwood has the 45 acp 255 grain hard cast at 925 fps listed on their website to be good for medium game, large game and dangerous game but the 44 special 255 grain hard cast at 1000 fps is only listed for medium game only. Maybe it's just an oversight who knows.
I have no idea. Probably as you say, oversight. Both are pretty similar. My _only_ thought on that, is maybe Underwood is trying to sell you on the .44 Mag ammo, as where typically in .45 ACP you aren't going up in power, as where marketing to guys like me who own .44 Mag revolvers but shoot .44 Special ammo, the Magnum is marketed as a big game round.
@@GunSam I believe you are right on the "why" of the matter. Underwood is likely pushing you towards the .44 Magnum for dangerous game. Even so, surprised they didn't make a similar push for .45 Super/SMC over standard .45 ACP when making their listings. I guess more people would be likely to have a .45 ACP sidearm in a standard chambering than a converted gun for .45 Super/SMC. Who knows.
Question, Do you screw those caps on properly? My experiance is thats the caps are the last things ting to blew off.Otherwise, thank you for another great video!
@@terryatherton2881 I don't disagree with anyone either. The 9mm has just enough of everything needed to be just enough for what we are probably all taking about- killing a big creature that has a big frame. But I mean, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being enough and 10 being perfect, the 9mm is a one, the .45 and .44 non magnum are 3 lol.
@@GunSam I do like running the hornady 135gr+p critical duty in my 9mm hk vp9, but I'm getting some of this underwood 45acp hardcast to run in my Smith&Wesson m&p m2.0 45acp.
So when you get into the time machine and go back to 1620 with the Pilgrims which one are you taking the 44 or the 45 OR would to rather take your 357magnum with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hardcast??? I'm sorry I know this isn't a fair question, but its how I think!😳
Considering that would be a time not focusing on carrying handguns rather people all having long guns, large tribes of natives that might not be nice and all of that, i'd probably choose the .45 ACP with many magazines.
@@GunSam good choice I believe there were hostile indians not just the ones that came to their celebration.(first Thanksgiving) but of course thats not considered a great hunting (food) choice!
@@davidsomerset8411 There were hostile tribes all over even hostile towards nice tribes. Fast forward a little bit and the Ojibwe (Chippewa) in my state of Michigan had to acquire guns from the French because the Iroquois nation was trying to take over the area. The Chippewa's kicked their butts and sent them running back to New York.
@@GunSam It is so wonderful someone else has an interest in history.... proud to call you internet friend. But after thinking it thru I'll take a 10 mm with a bunch of mags and BB 220 grain hard cast.
I would have thought the 44 would penetrate better due to better sectional density, maybe the larger meplat had something to do with it? I took one thing away from this, in a predator defence situation, had a second shot be required, the glock would have got you mauled.
@@GunSam If you have a 44 special or a 45 acp ........ not the first choice , better than a sharp stick . I would carry my 7.5" Redhawk 44 & G20 as a back up
@@thatoneguybones8036 no you don't!!! don't tell anybody that ever again!!! you stop a bear with 2 things only!!! shot placement and penetration!!! energy and expansion in a pistol cartridge don't mean shit on a bear, you're just giving up penetration at that point and that's not ok!!!
@@danoneill2846 Or that 7.62 or even those 22's that everyone is raving about. Would I go wheel gun? I have rented two big name ones. .357 and .45acp, nothing worse then. The hammer strike the primer pin. And all you hear is a tap! What does one do in a defense situation. You go to pull the trigger, and the wheel malfunctions? Take out your tool kit and spare parts. If your semi automatic jams, pull on slide and tap the side. Problem solved in a few seconds.
OLD .45 When It's Long & Glorious Day Is Done / It Will Take It's Place, Besides The Sharps, Springfield & Garand M1 / & Who Are We, Who With This Gun Grow Old / We're American's Fighting Men & We Stopped Them With It, COLD...
wonderful balanced comparison. everything equal. both like twin sisters. either one would be a wonderful secondary weapon for hunting North American dangerous game. but my primary weapon would be a appropriate rifle or any well made 12 gauge 3 -31/2 inch mag 1 1/4 rifled slug, the heavyweight or more. or for the two legged dangerous creatures that want to end your life. my beast buster 45 acp plus p and 45 super reloads are gt bullet company’s 255 gr deep wide mouth hp, loaded 900 feet per second and 925-950 feet per second with power pistol powder and long shot powder in starline 45 super brass . in my expansion tests they honestly flattened out 7/8 inch across retaining 245 -247 gr weight. wow. I don’t know the brinnel hardness but wow. iam having a wow moment. and Hornady 250 gr xtp same charges but don’t expand near as much but for dinosaurs you’ll get penetration and expansion. as a diehard 44-45 beast buster fan you proved what I say a lot you can’t go wrong with either caliber. this video I will never forget. thanks so much. Nana and papa aka the hunter wishing you well.
Many a milk (water) jug has died for science... now the wood has fallen victim to lead poisoning. Too bad you don't have wild boar in the area...they would be perfect for those two cartridges for testing..
I think we actually do have wild boars, but they aren't as common as other places. But for the milk jugs, it's junk yard prison or just end it. So I am helping them out!
I keep imagining having a jam after my first shot with a grizzly bear charging me about 10 yards away......maybe ill stick to revolvers in bear country?
i'd like to, but I have a 10mm barrel for the Glock so I get a lot of testing out of it. A lot of people can't stand seeing jams and whatnot, but for me it's just a test gun, it fires a round, and all I need is one round at a time to test ammo.
I normally release videos later in the day. But, I felt bad for yesterday's video featuring nothing but a Glock! Had to make up for that with an early release.
Great test and superb commenters. ... Back in the day, there weren't as many powders or powder companies available. Every powder has a bit of a different burning rate. ... Elmer Keith settled upon 2400 as the best powder for his .44s - at the time when he was a shooter. ... There are now powders available that can surpass 2400 in velocity with a similar pressure. ... One must be cautious about using heavy loads with standard, or magnum primers. A load that is maximum with a standard primer, can develop dangerously excessive pressure if a magnum primer is substituted. Beware!
And yet another auto-loader failure when using loads a bit different than standard. And a GLOCK no less. I guess glocks CAN"T leap tall buildings at a single bound.
Another fine test Sam, I enjoy your work.
You also have a bunch of friendly & informative followers, I enjoy reading all the commentary too.
Thank you, and you all are appreciated. I sometimes have some of the younger crowd stopping by trolling me saying how my videos don't get a lot of views and list the reasons why i'm no good, or I get genuinely nice people saying the same thing about low views. But my followers are nice, they comment etc. What the naysayer's _don't_ see (that I see as only I can see my analytics) is that my audience will watch pretty much my entire video, no matter the video. That makes my watch duration literally 3-4 times longer than a lot of people's videos. So lets say I get 5,000 views, that's really 20,000 views worth of minutes compare to an average video on RUclips. That gives me the ability to keep making videos, which is great!
Sam, you are well spoken and actually show the difference between bullets and firearms. You put work and thought into what you do. Maybe it's not for everyone? Some people are just mean keyboard trolls who have never done much in life. They would be happy to watch machine guns destroy something all day long, with no analysis. All the best and stay well!
@@GunSam I never worry about what youngsters say. One day they will be old (aka experienced) and they will wonder why young idiots are talking THEM down, when they KNOW more than the youngsters? The circle of life catches up to everyone. And they realize, one day, that THEY were the ignorant way back when
@@GunSam, hey man. I'm part of the younger crowd and I think your videos are great. A lot of your haters might not be part of the gun community and may be parts of other communities that are just stopping by to negative (film snobs and video game addicts are always "experts" on other people's channels yet rarely make videos themselves).
Sam . I was viewing the comments and read about the younger generation shooters. as a reloader of 42 years, more calibers and honest testing than I could remember can say a lot of them don’t know what there talking about. not trying to be mean or rude but always ready and willing to help them from get rid of the training wheels to become a rifleman. but like I was 42 years ago I didn’t know a drop in a bucket. after all these years I am a old dog that can learn new tricks. now disabled I have so much to offer a realize that my years may not be many more. with a treasure chest of knowledge and experience to share with outhers when I die it will die with me . iam not complaining iam joyful to see my blessed savior. but it saddens me so many want to shoot but not listen and learn. maybe I expect to much of people. Nana and papa aka the hunter from the foothills of the blue ridge mountains in North Carolina wishing you the best of the world.
I really enjoy the hard cast videos. You do all the work so I don't have to...Thank you!
Thank you, thanks for watching!
It’s great seeing these tests rather than just reading about them in a magazine.
I’m so glad you did this. My .44 Special handload is almost an exact duplicate of that Underwood load. This gives me a much better idea of what I can expect. Thank you.
Thanks for watching.
as long as you're using a properly constructed and hardened bullet.
Really enjoyed this vid ! I’ve carried both on the mountain trails, hot loaded .44 specials & hot loaded .45 acp’s . Really nice to see that they perform as I hoped they would. Love the hard cast tests! Great job Sam.
Thank you. It's always a little weird for me to do these tests as I love how hollow points explode the bologna and stop short. It's more difficult to decipher a solid bullet and once the bullet gets to jug 5 and beyond the comparison/calibration to ballistic gel becomes inaccurate, but it's still fun to see what happens.
Being a revolver guy I enjoy seeing what they can do..........thanks my friend
Thanks for watching!
I like the addition of the wood blocks to the chrono and jug-or-not tests.
A long time ago this was always my standard test. I would do water jugs, no bologna pack but I always had 2x4's to test penetration too. If you look back at my videos 2-3 years ago all had the wood test lol.
I just bought a bunch of these Underwood 45 ACP rounds for a woods gun. Definitely seems to pack a punch.
That 44 ant no joke 💪💯👀
Holy Hannah, what a great woods protection rounds! Great video!
Looks like both hard casts rounds would penetrate the skull of a bear. I really appreciate the .44 Special test since I have been thinking about a S&W Model 69 and, as far as I can determine, no one else has tested .44 Special ammunition. A comparison between Underwoods .44 hard cast Vs an Underwood Extreme Penetrator and Extreme Defender .44 Special rounds would REALLY be interesting!👍
People won't like me saying this, but both of those loads would stop a grizzly if you put it in the right spot. Spine or brain pan even with these and he's stopping immediately. Elmer Keith said his working man's woods defense load was a 255gr hardcast at 950 fps, and he carried that load for plinking and even in areas where he knew a bear encounter might occur.
You Sam are amazing me with the .44spl power, I never really knew it could compete against a .45acp +p.....awesome video yet again!!
Thank you. The .44 Special is why the GP100 in .44 Special exists. It's known to be a good round, you just need a good revolvers for it.
.44 Special 255 gr. LSWC @ 1000 MV is pretty much the infamous "Skeeter Load" that Skeeter Skelton himself concocted back in the 50's to use in his Model 24 for Police work when he as a Def County Sheriff.
Developed with a similar mind-set as the .38 Super Police round, in that its easy on the shooter but hard on the intended victim.
Legendary man/bear stopper round.
Awesome. Love this hardcast series! I know the 10mm has the reputaion as a "woods" gun, but if all you have now is a .45 acp, it seems like it would serve you just as well (or close enough) with this Underwood ammo.
Thanks. From what i'm seeing a lot of cartridges would work pretty well, even a 9mm with this bullet style.
@@GunSam There's an article floating around out there, had seen it on TheFirearmBlog at one time about a guy using a S&W 5900 series gun. Think it was a 5904 but guy had Buffalo Bore hardcast load 147gr, killed a Grizzly with it.
Hard cast in a lot of calibers can make a huge difference on penetration.
The relevant comparison is this 255gr .45acp duplicates the (non- cowboy action ) traditional .45 Colt . Yes , this is a good thing .
I like Buffalo Bore 255 grain hard cast out of my Glock 36 .45 for woods carry.
@@Predalien195 He got lucky and it went for the couple he was guiding. He was able to draw on it while it was distracted. He shot it like 6 times and it walked off into the woods to die so it's hard to say how well that would work against a bear coming straight at you.
I appreciate you doing real life comparisons. Thank you
I'll be reloading soon. Got all my gear and supplies. Thanks for the inspiration. I just wish I lived in the woods so I could shoot anytime. Good news is I'm 12 minutes drive from a shooting range.
I have some hand loading videos on the gun streamer website if interested. I go by just Gun Sam over there.
@@GunSam thanks, I'm in the trying to comprehend it all stage. Will try your vids.
Once again the "old 45acp" shows its versatility. 44 spl is a fine cartridge also.
@@guaporeturns9472 not true
@@guaporeturns9472 7 rounds..? Why bother. Got 14+1 in my Para 😉
@@guaporeturns9472 Nahh son. The hottest 9 loads can't beat the hottest .45 loads.
@@guaporeturns9472 nah, the terminal ballistics on a hot 45 vs a hot 9mm aren't even close, and I've used them both side by side.
Glock 21 or Glock 30 with 21s mag 13+1 of hard hitting .45 acp. IMO 9 is definitely not better than .45.
Sounds like a good black bear load.
As always, it was a fun watch. Thanks for your work.
Thanks again!
Great video. I think this my first time seeing 45lc vs 45 acp. Fun as usual
We'd love to see the effects of both types of ammo on cinder blocks.
Very informative video!
I noted that the .45 blew the caps off all the milk jugs, but the .44 didn't. I'm not sure what it means, but I thought I'd point it out.
Well, they were different jugs. The .45's were snap on caps the .44 were threaded.
@@GunSam Well that explains it! I'm glad I asked. That's the kind of thing that'll drive you crazy trying to come up with some sophisticated answer.
Glad you clarified that otherwise a boatload of theories would of been floating around that one blew caps off and the other one didn't.
Man, you really do great work.
I appreciate that!
Now you're talking about 2 of my favorite cartridges. I shoot both alot. A colt 1911. And a ruger 44 mag Blackhawk. That just loves 44 spls. I have taken 2 white tailed deer with 44 spl. Awsome video. Thank you and God bless 😊
I was going to buy a bigger revolver to take into the woods but I think I’m just gonna go with the 45 hard cast.
Why so you can get a jam on the first shot?
@@Lateralus1007 There’s no guarantee you’re going to get a second shot off with a big high caliber revolver either. I’m definitely not against revolvers, I’m still considering getting one as well. A charging bear will cause panic no matter what firearm you have. Revolvers are obviously slower but more reliable.
@@soulprovider915 I hear you Just the flat nose seemed unreliable in the auto loader Maybe an xtp bullet They penetrate well and have a more conical shape to help loading
@@Lateralus1007 you know what, now that you mention that my Ruger American absolutely hates anything flat including pyramid shaped hollow points. They have to have some type of rounding on the sides leading up to the flat surface. I can’t even pull the slide back and get the first one in. I’ll check out what you recommend. Maybe I could get a single action revolver and do a Clint Eastwood style rapid fire from the hip LOL
Awesome test of ammo options! seeing your other videos proves to me that bullet mfg 100% plays into bullet accuracy. Governor put out the best numbers that the ammo allows! Like your content.
Nice video and comparison of two pretty equal rounds.
Thank you.
I've always liked these 255 underwoods. Would make a decent woods/trail gun. I'd say 10mm or 357./44. Mag would be better if Grizzlies were around but in most of the lower 48 i wouldn't feel underpowered with a few mags of these and a Government sized 1911 that ran well 🤟 good video
My Blackhawk with 44 spls is like shooting a 38 spl. But so accurate that its scary. And completely shoots through a broadside deer.
Love these vids
Thank you.
now this 255 gr Underwood with Keith(? correct if wrong) bullet I still have for my ParaOrdnance P 14-45, my velocities were closer to 900 fps but the penetration was abnormally high for 45 ACP. These two loads would be applicable even in Alaska.
Thats because they ARE HARD CAST BULLETS. That's what they are designed to do. Abnormal penetration.. and your exactly right. Alaska style woods defense is what these guys are intended for.. alot of people can't go drop 1300 bucks on a nice 454 casull. And even more people don't feel great about the 5 round capacity associated with revolvers. This is an option to turn your daily carry gun into a decent woods gun . And in that sense they are great.. when a 1000 lb grizzly has an hankering for some human , you want all the abnormal penetration you can get
Good reference to SD. Also remember that the boards likely could had been cracked prior to the Spc being fired. Might use two different packs. Most don't know how effective cast can be or how deep a hard cast can penetrate. Thanks for the video.
.44 spl has been stopping fights since around 1870. Once was the favored and darling cartridge of the Texas Rangers. And acouple of slug improvements has made it even more effective .
he's probably referring to the 44-40 cartridge
Oldies but goodies mixed with modern bullet technology...
Thank you Sam!
Both are definitely very good & effective. 45 you just get more of them in a "magazine".
13+1 of these rounds in my glock 41 plus two back up mags is plenty!!!
(Possibly) could you get a .41 Mag S&W to begin comparison tests? I think you'd enjoy the weapon. It would be right up your ally
Very nice. Looks like further evidence of why SWC's are favored for hunting- the shoulder cuts a bit and cores through. I know a lot of handloaders make loads like this with a 250 or 255 gr bullet, within standard pressures. The 44 Spl has a lot of potential that is not fully used by ammo companies. Any plans to test any of the full wadcutter "antipersonnel" loads? Or the BB 190 gr SWCHP vs a 200 gr 45 ACP HP (that one will probably be jacketed)?
I shot some of the Underwood wadcutters that I believe as as good as Buffalo Bore loads of the 200 gr wadcutter, but I didn't test them. I might have to test them in the jug or not box.
@@GunSam - Sounds like a plan😁
I think this type of ammo can work well at less speed or a short barrel .
My brother often said the.45 ACP was just a automatic equivalent of the.44 Special. Guess that’s about right. .
They are pretty close in diameter, bullet weight and velocity.
I like this type of comparison. Keep'em comin
Thank you. I filmed the Underwood 180 gr .357 Mag VS 220 gr 10mm and did this same style of test with it. It actually was exciting at the end!
Thanks for sharing. Always interesting videos. I didn't really expect them to go thru all the water jugs. Take care.
Thank you. A long time ago I also shot regular low end 230 gr FMJ .45's into the test medium and that also passed through all.
@@GunSam Thank you. I appreciate your additional comments. I have no experience with .40 or .45's. I was down at the farm killing pumpkins today. As you would expect, they don't stop anything.
@@bobcatforever3485 Fill them with water or strawberry pop.
I cast and handload, and use a bullet for the 45 Colt in the ACP cartridge. It ends up 260 grains when cast from wheel weight alloy, and has a large .360" meplat (flat on the nose). That flat is what does the "work" in solids, and my loads chop nasty holes through stuff, even at only 900 FPS. The downside (and- I'm certain- the reason Underwood doesn't use one like it) is that it may not feed well in every 45 ACP pistol. With revolvers, one has a lot more leeway in bullet profile. This test is a good example of how bullets of similar diameter, weight, material,and velocity can give distinctly different performance on soft tissue just by virtue of that meplat.
I have always been under the impression that the wide nose is considered a Keith style and makes a 158 gr a 170 gr, a 240 gr a 255 gr but the overall length of the bullet is the same as the 158 or 240 gr bullet, so you can load them with 158 gr or 240 gr charges. I am not an expert in that field but is this about right?
@@GunSam pretty much; cylindrical shape (as opposed to conical) of the nose and placement of the crimp groove...the diameter of the meplat is more or less a byproduct of that cylindrical nose shape. There are also LBT-style that aren't SWC that have large meplats and get a lot of bullet out of the case, and they are pretty much the ne plus ultra of cast bullets for hunting. The bullet I use in 45 ACP is actually a round-nose flat point like the Underwood 45 ACP, but the meplat on mine is much larger (it's the LEE PRECISION 452-255). it runs fine in several different firearms I've tried it in, but I'm sure there are some that would have issues feeding. If you handload, I could send you some of them, properly sized to .452" and lubed, along with some load data (from a manual so you could be confident in the source).
@@GunSam One other point in JHP VS Lead swc/LBT , an all lead bullet ( no gas check ) has less friction , so you can load with low pressure & still get good speed . For live targets I would want a SWC HP , if I need more than that , get the 44 rifle with 240gr XTP @ Full Power !! = 1750 FPS
That would be a good test ! All lead 240 gr VS 240 gr JHP with same powder charge . Get the enforcer powder on the case !
@@noahmercy-mann4323 I hand load and have all 4 dies to do a good job with .45 ACP, but I haven't loaded in awhile as i'm always overrun with all of the factory ammo I get lol.
Good shooting Sam and A good video sir. Looks like I’ll be getting some 45acp’s hard cast for my G21 I’m up in the air about my smith 686-6 I’m sticking to the HTP’s 158 g sjhp.
This is a fantastic review thanks!
As always nice video. Learning a lot here about ballistics. If you get a chance do one with the 44 MAG. Vs 357 Mag vs 10mm
I have done that.
@@GunSam darn that's true like two weeks ago 😂😂😂. 🤔🤔 Do you have any 45ACP Revolver. It will be interesting to see if 45ACP has better performance on a revolver than semi auto
Very interesting test
Thanks for watching.
GREAT REVIEW THANKS
Thanks!
My two favorites. I carry one or the other every day.
You shot well with the 44 ...!!! Fun video. Peace.
Thank you sir 🙏
You could install a slanted piece of sheet metal beneath that box to channel all the water to the rear into a single place. Probably keep everything a bit less soggy.
Haha, with all I have to deal with in this videos I never really thought much about it.....but, you know the biggest issue I have? MUD. I have to swap my woods shoes for my regular shoes before getting in the car, or hose off my military boots to be able to drive, and it's all on account of the water coming forward. I should put some gravel down and a gutter out the rear lol
@@GunSam I was thinking a trough-shaped piece of sheet metal under that deck slanting backward to take all the runoff to the rear would help.
In other news....Just heard today, with Remington's chapter 11, Ruger was able to buy Marlin firearms. Also heard per Tom Gresham on Guntalk as he had a Ruger individual interviewing with him discussing the Marlin acquisition, Ruger plans to release a new 10/22 Leveraction 22.
I bet the Marlin line expands and innovates. Super good stuff.
@@exothermal.sprocket gun Sam also uses the splash as a factor to help judge performance.
great presentation. I am subscribing.
I would feel comfortable with both rounds on a trail. One thing. I wouldn't use that 45 in my 1911. Just wouldn't feed well with that shape. My HK USP should work well with it though. Great test
Thanks.
This Does feed in my 1911 . But definitely test it in your guns, and your magazines .
Best be cautious with hard cast in a polygonal barreled USP! Hard cast is nor forgiving or so malleable...
@@cirocundin nope not true, gonna have to stop you right there!!! the hardcast in a polygonal rifled barrel has been proven false over and over. that being said, you have to understand that hardcast and lead bullets are 2 different things entirely!!! a properly hardened hardcast will not lead a polygonal barrel, but it doesn't even matter, cause underwood runs theirs at a brinel hardness of 21, and anything over 18 is ok. also underwood does the hi-tech coating, and doubletap uses a gas check, and buffalo bore is very good about properly sizing their bullets as well as hardening them, I've shot underwood in a stock glock barrel, and been fine on many occasions, just clean it well and you'll be fine!!!
your hk usp can shoot 45 super without being modified. it's one of the few that can.
Quite interesting results, good video! Where is a good place to get hard cast cartridges?
Thanks. As far as Underwood ammo goes I get either from Midwayusa or from Underwood's website themselves. I also get Buffalo Bore hard cast from Midwayusa. I can't recall buying hard cast ammo from anywhere else.
@@GunSam Thanks!
@@GunSam doubletap does hardcast and so does grizzly cartridge
Great video, can never get too much .44 Special. Was a little surprised at the large extreme spread on the Underwood .44 Special.
How about some .45 Colt? That’s just easy horsepower.
Thanks. I may or may not test .45 Colt at some point but do not own a firearm in it. If I was to get one I might either get a .460 Mag S&W in a 4" or 6" barrel, or a Governor/Judge revolver. Just haven't decided really.
I really enjoy working up 255-275 grain cast loads at 800-1025 fps in dedicated .45 Colt N-frames, and just got my hands on a Ruger Bisley so I can start blasting 325 grainers.
I find it odd that Underwood has the 45 acp 255 grain hard cast at 925 fps listed on their website to be good for medium game, large game and dangerous game but the 44 special 255 grain hard cast at 1000 fps is only listed for medium game only. Maybe it's just an oversight who knows.
I have no idea. Probably as you say, oversight. Both are pretty similar. My _only_ thought on that, is maybe Underwood is trying to sell you on the .44 Mag ammo, as where typically in .45 ACP you aren't going up in power, as where marketing to guys like me who own .44 Mag revolvers but shoot .44 Special ammo, the Magnum is marketed as a big game round.
@@GunSam I believe you are right on the "why" of the matter. Underwood is likely pushing you towards the .44 Magnum for dangerous game. Even so, surprised they didn't make a similar push for .45 Super/SMC over standard .45 ACP when making their listings.
I guess more people would be likely to have a .45 ACP sidearm in a standard chambering than a converted gun for .45 Super/SMC. Who knows.
@@Predalien195 I would love to get an hk usp 45 or Mark 23 or hk45, cause those can shoot 45 super without modification
@@Wildwestwrangler I believe the FNX-45 series is the same way if I remember reading correctly.
Hell yeah this is gonna be fun! I'm only a minute :13 in!
Hope it was everything you wished it was lol
GREAT VIDEO !!!
Thank you.
Cool comparison! :-)
Thanks! 😀
I appreciate you shooting double action first.
Question,
Do you screw those caps on properly? My experiance is thats the caps are the last things ting to blew off.Otherwise, thank you for another great video!
The jugs that caught the .45 auto were not screw on caps but the ones to catch the .44 spl were screw on caps.
Man that is some warm 44spl
Thanks man !
Either of those loads would be fine on game such as boar or medium black bear.
they'd even perforate a big black bear!!!
The biggest difference with these being the same weight is the 44 special will have a higher sectional density.
Good job thanks
Impressive demonstration, nine mm. is over rated. In my opinion. I believe your test show's this perfectly.
The 9mm can be okay, in a large pistol. But other than that there are better options.
@DR. JOE ROGAN I do not disagree with you.
@@terryatherton2881 I don't disagree with anyone either. The 9mm has just enough of everything needed to be just enough for what we are probably all taking about- killing a big creature that has a big frame. But I mean, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being enough and 10 being perfect, the 9mm is a one, the .45 and .44 non magnum are 3 lol.
@@GunSam I do like running the hornady 135gr+p critical duty in my 9mm hk vp9, but I'm getting some of this underwood 45acp hardcast to run in my Smith&Wesson m&p m2.0 45acp.
Plus P is not standard pressure
So when you get into the time machine and go back to 1620 with the Pilgrims which one are you taking the 44 or the 45 OR would to rather take your 357magnum with Buffalo Bore 180 grain hardcast??? I'm sorry I know this isn't a fair question, but its how I think!😳
Considering that would be a time not focusing on carrying handguns rather people all having long guns, large tribes of natives that might not be nice and all of that, i'd probably choose the .45 ACP with many magazines.
@@GunSam good choice I believe there were hostile indians not just the ones that came to their celebration.(first Thanksgiving) but of course thats not considered a great hunting (food) choice!
@@davidsomerset8411 There were hostile tribes all over even hostile towards nice tribes. Fast forward a little bit and the Ojibwe (Chippewa) in my state of Michigan had to acquire guns from the French because the Iroquois nation was trying to take over the area. The Chippewa's kicked their butts and sent them running back to New York.
@@GunSam It is so wonderful someone else has an interest in history.... proud to call you internet friend. But after thinking it thru I'll take a 10 mm with a bunch of mags and BB 220 grain hard cast.
@@davidsomerset8411 They taste like chicken. Don't ask me how I know. By the way can I fill out your mail in ballot.
The 10 mm is all purpose gun wood and hood
I would have thought the 44 would penetrate better due to better sectional density, maybe the larger meplat had something to do with it? I took one thing away from this, in a predator defence situation, had a second shot be required, the glock would have got you mauled.
Good bear bullets !
Probably!
@@GunSam If you have a 44 special or a 45 acp ........ not the first choice , better than a sharp stick . I would carry my 7.5" Redhawk 44 & G20 as a back up
@@danoneill2846 better than a .380 for a bear.
@@thatoneguybones8036 no you don't!!! don't tell anybody that ever again!!! you stop a bear with 2 things only!!! shot placement and penetration!!! energy and expansion in a pistol cartridge don't mean shit on a bear, you're just giving up penetration at that point and that's not ok!!!
@@danoneill2846 Or that 7.62 or even those 22's that everyone is raving about.
Would I go wheel gun? I have rented two big name ones. .357 and .45acp, nothing worse then. The hammer strike the primer pin. And all you hear is a tap! What does one do in a defense situation. You go to pull the trigger, and the wheel malfunctions? Take out your tool kit and spare parts. If your semi automatic jams, pull on slide and tap the side. Problem solved in a few seconds.
Great video presentation and shooting. Hardcast and Gold dots don't play with those custom rounds at all. 🎩♠️
Thank you
@@GunSam you're welcome
OLD .45
When It's Long & Glorious Day Is Done / It Will Take It's Place, Besides The Sharps, Springfield & Garand M1 / & Who Are We, Who With This Gun Grow Old / We're American's Fighting Men & We Stopped Them With It, COLD...
Good 44spl load
Have been wondering. Is that a river/stream behind you?
Yeah. Well, a little ways behind like 100 yards. There's a little dip really close that used to be a part of the actual river, but it is not anymore.
It looks like it. I was always looking for the water. 😂 Enjoy your videos. Would love to see a .454 vs .500 magnum in the Jug or Not.
wonderful balanced comparison. everything equal. both like twin sisters. either one would be a wonderful secondary weapon for hunting North American dangerous game. but my primary weapon would be a appropriate rifle or any well made 12 gauge 3 -31/2 inch mag 1 1/4 rifled slug, the heavyweight or more. or for the two legged dangerous creatures that want to end your life. my beast buster 45 acp plus p and 45 super reloads are gt bullet company’s 255 gr deep wide mouth hp, loaded 900 feet per second and 925-950 feet per second with power pistol powder and long shot powder in starline 45 super brass . in my expansion tests they honestly flattened out 7/8 inch across retaining 245 -247 gr weight. wow. I don’t know the brinnel hardness but wow. iam having a wow moment. and Hornady 250 gr xtp same charges but don’t expand near as much but for dinosaurs you’ll get penetration and expansion. as a diehard 44-45 beast buster fan you proved what I say a lot you can’t go wrong with either caliber. this video I will never forget. thanks so much. Nana and papa aka the hunter wishing you well.
I just sold my Glock 21 to buy a Glock 20 for a CCW/woods gun but now I’m wishing I just hold onto the 21.
Many a milk (water) jug has died for science... now the wood has fallen victim to lead poisoning. Too bad you don't have wild boar in the area...they would be perfect for those two cartridges for testing..
I think we actually do have wild boars, but they aren't as common as other places. But for the milk jugs, it's junk yard prison or just end it. So I am helping them out!
can you do a hog hunting video with the 45acp and this hardcast load?
I keep imagining having a jam after my first shot with a grizzly bear charging me about 10 yards away......maybe ill stick to revolvers in bear country?
The correct answer is “YES”.
👍👍
You need to upgrade to a 1911 for your 45acp.
i'd like to, but I have a 10mm barrel for the Glock so I get a lot of testing out of it. A lot of people can't stand seeing jams and whatnot, but for me it's just a test gun, it fires a round, and all I need is one round at a time to test ammo.
Has there been a zombie apocalypse as I seem to be first! 😵
I normally release videos later in the day. But, I felt bad for yesterday's video featuring nothing but a Glock! Had to make up for that with an early release.
@@GunSam I'm in the UK, so to be first I thought something terrible had happened to you boys and girls over the pond. Glad to hear y'all are ok 😀
Yes there has been a zombie apocalypse. They are called Democrats.
@@guaporeturns9472 You're a very conceited person. I'm sure that's a higher virtue than what you perceive as hate?
It looks like l didn’t comment the first time I watched 🤷♂️ 😔 well second time is a good 👍
Model 69’s lightweight frame will wear you out.
Its not really that light, and my Hogue grip makes up for all of that.
Great test and superb commenters. ... Back in the day, there weren't as many powders or powder companies available. Every powder has a bit of a different burning rate. ... Elmer Keith settled upon 2400 as the best powder for his .44s - at the time when he was a shooter. ... There are now powders available that can surpass 2400 in velocity with a similar pressure. ... One must be cautious about using heavy loads with standard, or magnum primers. A load that is maximum with a standard primer, can develop dangerously excessive pressure if a magnum primer is substituted. Beware!
You're going to need a new and improved pillow if you keep testing non expanding bullets like this.
Yeah! And I think you saw my unreleased Underwood 10mm and .357 Mag video. LoL, it worked but barely.
Or perhaps a new and improved high-tech fleece bullet stop
@@knifedance2402 somebody has been watching Paul!!!
That bologna costs too much to use for that now days!
Girly limp wrist caused a malf.
And yet another auto-loader failure when using loads a bit different than standard. And a GLOCK no less. I guess glocks CAN"T leap tall buildings at a single bound.
Bought the M&P9 2.0 today, took it out to shoot. No failures at all lol
@@GunSam My CZ 75 is pretty reliable also. But I still rely on my SW 686 in bear country :)
Make mine a special.
thanks U easy english.my gain💋