Wrist flicking is a problem in club tennis because it exposes the wrist to the g forces of the ball.. So I prefer to keep the butt pointing at the incoming ball so I can protect the wrists from exposure to the ball before I do any pronation with it so I use small compact swings, not big massive loops.....So before I hit the ball I make sure first that my wrists are lined up with the ball so they are not exposed. I use the forearm and shoulder for the pronation.
Nick, believe it or not, i've just had a debate about that with some of my students and i said exactly your words. I'm totally into your intuitive method and i can't be more grateful about the favour you're doing to the world of tennis. Thanks Coach again and ever, from Italy.
Nik is correct. Indeed, one could argue that purposefully not moving the wrist will be useful to encourage a correct low to high swing-path (with the whole arm-body system).
Thank you for covering this topic. I think this needs to be the FIRST lesson in playing tennis. I just started playing and injured my wrist a bit. Do more lessons
I remember your other video about the wrist being static at contact. Once I started to practice with a static wrist, and elbow, swinging from my shoulder along with the torso rotation, my forehand fixed itself. I was always doing that windshield wiper with the wrist and forearm, and my forehand landed short with a lot of spin. Now it goes deep, with natural topspin, towards the baseline. Best advice to a beginner, and intermediate, "static wrist and elbow through contact". Solid video.
It all depends on what is meant by 'using the wrist'. The wrist is a (hinge) joint which should be allowed to move as part of good technique, but the muscles, that can be contracted to move the wrist, should not be used. As the wrist is, in fact, a joint, I would say that you should 'use the wrist' and that, actually, you are using your wrist, in your own powerful forehand shots, that you demonstrate in this video. Most beginners don't use their wrist, though, in that it doesn't move; rather it maintains a straight line along the forearm and the racket.
coming from a golfers perspective and a newbe to tennis--any early wrist or forearm rotation totally collapses the arm with no recovery....Nic is 100 % correct!!
I agree...Nick is 100% right on this. I think there's a lot of confusion in general about tennis strokes. What Pro players really do is have a very relaxed arm and that is what helps with power and racket head acceleration. When you watch Monfils his wrist kinda rollls over at the end of the stroke, but I believe that is just the result of a very loose, relaxed stroke. I think he is one of the most relaxed players in regard to his strokes.
Thanks for your videos. I watched the wronge videos trying to learn and ended up overusing my wrist on serves and ground strokes. Now i have tennis and golfers elbow that i need to manage, slowly changing but it takes time. Thanks again.
Hey Nikola, Cool vídeos as always. We all seem to put só much attention into the wrist, while indeed a Number of factors contribute to the effectiveness of the shot, such as your grip, the path of motion of the racket, the kinetic chain... I guess the point, as you mentioned, really stands in the fact people watching tennis do not focus so much on slow motion sequences (as they are seen far and few between in tv) and get só impressed by the final, wrist unloading phase of the hit. Cool Job man, Nicola
Again super great content nick, im 5.0 tennis player and i love your technical videos, your videos help me to focus on right things on my all strokes. Can u make volley tactic videos?
Ahh 😵 I'm one of those students that conceptualizes everything. Its a two edged sword. Sometimes, after thinking and analyzing video of myself and pros, i find a huge jumping breakthrough in my game... then i overthink something and ruin it for awhile. It's a vicious cycle. However, I have noticed in the last 6 months as I have gotten more advanced, it has become easier to sort out the bad. Doing something correctly should feel right. And it's crazy that if you are feeling pain you are probably doing something wrong.
Hey Nick, I took a lesson with a different coach than usual last week and they instructed me that I should snap my wrist and "pronate" when serving. I tried to force myself to do it, and it hurt like hell afterward. I stopped after 10-15 serves and started doing it without wrist action and my consistency went up, and they actually said - to my surprise - "see how much better it is with wrist motion"! I couldn't believe it. Clearly something about the fast pace and/or slow-motion videos makes them think that the wrist is where power lies. Either that or that famous PM coach that's always talking about it.
Couldn’t agree more with Nick, just going to add that with a forced wrist movement you may even get injured. I tried so hard to get more topspin with the wrong technique, that I ended up with tennis elbow. It feels pretty bad and I don’t see myself on the tennis court any soon. So one more reason to take Nick’s really seriously.
I feel like the wrist still moves slightly, but it's a natural and very small movement as your racquet hand grips a bit tighter to absorb the impact of the incoming ball.
I think the wrist is passive but plays a role in power generation. I used to hit my forehand with the lag (wrist extension), which is correct, but locked it there for the windshield wiper motion, which is also correct, which means my finish will still see my wrist extension towards my face. The problem with that is, though it generates a lot of topspin, there is not much power to it, even when I load on my legs, and tried to drive through it more, it was still lacking somehow. Then I realised the finish of most pros ends with wrist flexion. I agree that on ball contact the racket is flat (wrist extension/lag) but, by imagining and actively wanting to hit towards a wrist flexion motion (visualising slapping with windshield) and flexing around the middle of the body, the end result is more acceleration and spin as the racket will travel in a different path as compared to locking the wrist in the lag position with just the windshield wiper motion (also that tends to spin up high on some balls especially with rackets like pure aero). Visualising and actively wanting to do the wrist slap actually achieves the opposite of what you said for me, I use more twisting motion of the arm forward instead of just the windshield wiper motion upwards and over, thereby achieving more spin and power. Maybe different people just has different mechanics, what was natural to me and looks good (with my locked lagged wrist extension) is actually counter-intuitive for power especially. So I do think some coaches advice are correct. To me it's like visualising a carving path (with palm facing out and then down) of the ball instead of the palm doing the windshield wiper motion with the palm facing forward all the time.
Thank you for this. Would love to hear your interpretation of how Patrick Mouratoglou teaches the forehand. In his videos he talks about a loose hand (I notice he never mentions wrist) and throwing the head of the racket through the shot with acceleration. Very loose and, little effort.
Well, i'm no expert but i think the reason for the wrist movement at the end of the stroke must be due to a loose wrist. And the loose wrist should be important for the wrist lag, which helps generate racket head speed and thus power/spin in the modern atp forehand style. So if your wrist doesn't move eventually, it means it wasn't loose and/or myb you had no body rotation, so it is an indicator for missing out on power/spin generation opportunities in the beginning of the kinetic chain/ technique. "Throwing the racket" should could help with conceptualizing the racket lag, because if you throw a ball f.e.you have a "lagging wrist" aswell. Thats how i understood it so far.
Great video as always. Thank you Nick. I think I use my wrist in forehang in low balls and on extreme open balls when hit from out side of the ball. Is this a mistake too?
I wonder if it's more about relaxing the wrist and at the point of contact, the wrist just happens to be straight/passive as that's how the kinetic chain works for maximum power?
Completely agree! Moreover, I learned about it from you, Nick, and it's been already long time ago. Only I don’t understand why many coaches and players talk about the wrist and try to convince us that it is important?? May be they want to say something else instead? Like relaxed feeling of the arm during follow through?
Thanks for the video. I've struggled a lot with wrist and thumb pain (base of the thumb) in the past. One of the reasons was a way too loose wrist right before and after the contact.
Absolutely right! Don't use the wrist. However, I think you need to better define what it means to use the wrist. As I understand it, use of the wrist means that the hand changes position with respect to the forearm. If the forearm and the hand turn forward in sync, and the hand stays in the same position with respect to the forearm, the wrist remains inactive. In that instance what you've performed is pronation, and there's no wrist action. At times in this video you seem to show pronation as wrist action.
3.45 and 6.50 is not wrist ( or let say hand ) its underarm ( wrist can radial to ulnar and extension to flexion ) the windshield is done by underarm and shoulder
Agree that the wrist does not generate power, but it has a role in stroke, it redirects the power, combining fingers it can changes racquet's openness and angle.
many many years ago when I first learned how to play tennis, the instructor was adamant about NOT to use the wrist as you will injure yourself. But now I am surprised to hear that actually people tell you to use your wrist so I am confused. Well least somebody is teaching it the old fashioned way.
Moreover, you can end up with a tennis elbow injury due to hyper extending the muscles of the forearm with that movement. The way I am trying to fix that movement is thinking of letting the tip of the racket go forward after contact.
Makes a lot of sense. The wrist is very small compared to the arm, so it would be very inefficient if you tried to use it as your main source of topspin. Could also lead to significant injuries.
Great instruction. If you don’t pay attention to coach Nick, you will have tennis elbow with forearm rotation and will never be able to handle moon ballers and low paced opponents. Rafa generates heavy top spin via supination of the arm with a lose wrist and the finish looks wristy but its not.
The vid is 100% correct. Regarding loose wrist: depends how loose and when. ‚laying it back‘ - only as a passive result of arm/forearm movement. No conscious movement of the wrist during forward phase pre-contact.
Yes your wrist neutral,meaning that the fingers are pointing ca. 45 degrees up and not down right after contact (as a long stict) the arm bends after that.
True but partially. The wrist, like the rest of the arm, is « softly » involved in the motion. But more in a continuous and relax movement with the forearm than that a brutal snap. It’s equally wrong to say that you should wrist flick and that the wrist isn’t involved at all in tennis strokes. That’s why many coaches talk about the wrist use. Many are wrong when they talk about flicking it brutally at contact. But the feeling of using maybe more the hand at contact Than the wrist is 100% correct. Anyway it’s not about strength in the arm and the wrist, but everything about being relax. In that case, no risk of injuries. You have to feel both hand work at contact and proper follow through the ball. The right point in the video is that the motion is not partial indeed, but done with the whole arm (including slight use of the hand/wrist in a continuous motion, explaining why with the speed you can’t see a change in the first 3 frames after contact).
i stopped playing in 2009 and now starting to play again. i remember then was lock the wrist...lock the wrist. but i have seen so many videos these days that says accelerate with the wrist..dont lock your wrist...has tennis technique evolved together with the better rackets today? ( i even remembered hurting my wrist cos i tried to control a volley by using the wrist)
Now I'm really confused what about the wrist snap on moment of contact on serve, many level coaches talk about that being the power source of serving?????
Nikola would disagree with them. This is his video about the wrist on the serve, ruclips.net/video/6uOZsYyrEy0/видео.html , and at about 5.38 he talks about the importance of not snapping your wrist downwards.
It's harsh to say but many coaches are wrong. There should be no "snap" of the wrist. This is a misconception that arises - I think - from baseball throwing, where there is some added power coming from a combination of pronation and wrist snap. And even there I'm not so sure, but I'm not a baseball connoisseur. In tennis the power comes 1) from the legs and 2) from the arm propelling itself in line with the upward motion caused by the legs. Because we lead the racket on edge we are pronating it into contact. That rotation may transfer some of its energy into the contact, but that is fairly limited, and it should not be understood as a "snapping" motion. Snapping the wrist will make you lose control on the serve. And since a snap by definition is changing the direction of the force, it might actually reduce power.
This has bedeviled me as well, and the coach I just went over it with said it in a way that makes sense to me, that I think aligns with Nik's video: I was so focused on the big muscles of the shoulder and arm that I was subconsciously tightening/locking my wrist, which was hugely reducing the racket head speed. So he didn't want me to snap my wrist, but loosen it so it could naturally flow through the stroke. I think the confusion comes because some people interpret that feeling as a "snap," because after the point of contact your hand can make that dead duck shape. Whereas when I would hear that advice I would think that the teacher or video wanted me to actively flick the wrist at the point of contact. Seems like an example difficulty of describing bodily feelings and motions generally.
Medvedev uses so much wrist you can often see it on his "jammed" forehands. I've been using 18 Guage black Widow and that wrist whip. At 55 years old I'm destroying opponents with super top spin. I should state I play without the pinky finger on the raquet which makes it easy. I also use a 2 grip and will move to a 1 soon.
I believe what pm means when he says to have a loose wrist is to keep it relaxed so that the head of the rather drops and you can use gravity to create a whip like stroke when you accelerate forward. The wrist stays static on contact and may move very slightly depending on what type of shot your hitting. If you watch his videos Pm is always asking his players to hit the short cross to pull the ball wide so he wants more topspin but if your trying to hot a safe deep shot you won't have any wrist. BTW intuitive tennis is by far the easiest to understand and explain. Pm instructions easily get misinterpreted.
As much as you might be right Nick, there are many top coaches getting players to use the wrist like Rick Macci and mouratoglou and they are and have produced many top level players. I've been coaching 25yrs and I think the wrist is needed on certain shots as technique is situational to where you are on the court. I love your videos but I think this debate will rage on
I gotta be doing something wrong with my wrist. My pinky/ring finger both locked up on me, woke up unable to move either of them. Dunno what I'm doing wrong but looks like I'm not playing Tennis for awhile 😵
👋🏻 I was looking up videos of golfer’s elbow and saw that the ulnar nerve goes to these fingers? A doctor or physical might be able to see if it’s ulnar nerve entrapment? Get well soon, and hope you’re back on the court soon.
Hey 2flow, I have that same condition with the ring and pinky fingers getting locked in a close position in the mornings. Like 13Gauge mentioned before me, it is likely a nerve entrapment and you should get it checked if possible. I got mine from a combination of poor posture (some nerves compressed in my cervicals) and hitting my forehand super late. Hope this helps, but really do see a doctor, and let us know how it goes. Cheers.
Happened to me months ago (trigger pinky finger). I had to rest and take medicines. For me it was all about how I hold the racket, I changed the grip and the problem never came back
So, finally i have to know... Is it ok to use a kind of forearm pronation during contact on short low ball close to the net or does we have to just focus on bend knees and drop the raquet and accelerate like a normal forehand in order to keep the ball inside the court ? That m'y entire life question at the moment and i'm very frustrated these Times...
Good thing I used my wrist before watching this video. Normally you are right completely or partially but this video didn't qualify in the title is just plain wrong. My opinion is after careful consideration of my previous opinion that your previous video is usually mostly correct, it depends on the grip. I used to use semi western grip and western grip so I know those grips provide more topspin. I now used eastern grip and I recently use my wrist because I couldn't hit in a fast deep shot to my FH. That night I made my opponent committed unforced error off my new FH. I haven't use my wrist on other FH grips but I personally believe it should work just as well because I believe all pros have the same foundation and using the wrist is an important part of that foundation. I should qualify my statement that using the wrist should be the very last step after all other steps were follow aka the holy grail of technique. It might just be me but my body is tired even after taking magnesium citrate after and a good night sleep so that might be a barrier to the recreational tennis player. Hence why I'm confused that Nikola made this video as he should know. No offense but I think Nikola is too used to his technique that he's just unwilling to change and also his technique bailed him out on the offensive end that he never has to defend which is what using the wrist will greatly help. I like to see Nike turn defense into attack. The fact he can't is because he can't use his wrist to generate that extra power. Also he is older so it's better to keep technique simple rather than losing easy points on the offensive end than to winning difficult point on the defensive end. The thing is if you haven't personally use your wrist, you wouldn't be able to see it in other pro's as well. After I used my wrist I can see other pro's using their wrists. I'm not telling you to believe me but at least don't dismiss it completely. Try it to see if it works. If it doesn't work keep it in the back of your mind because if you are anything like me you will learn other techniques and after you learn all those other technique is when you are finally ready to try using the wrist again. I also watch similar basketball youtuber making claims about Steph Curry is using palm instead of fingers as Steph adamantly claim. Is it a trend that youtubers are dismissing advice from pros? One thing I learned is if the pro is saying something is true about something that they are very good at I will believe them because there's nothing in it for them to lie. My opinion is the recreational player simply lacks something to make it work. I'm not saying pros are correct all the time but if they are truly wrong then most likely you are on a huge break through to a new way to play the sport like how federer used straight arm FH and how Curry shoot his three pointers. What are the chance of that happening without helps from others? Abysmally small.
Zdravo Nikola :) I would like to hear your opinion on very short and low balls (let' say they land before the service line) that you want to get over the net with some speed so you need some extra topspin on the ball... I understand that the racquet head path must be almost vertical on those shots but i tend to use "some wrist" in those shots... Does that make sense or in other words is that OK to have that state of mind when executing those shots?
For the forhand there is a lag of wrist before contact and the wrist is extended at contact which means there is some action happening with the wrist. Am I right?
If you use your wrist for impact all the time, you will hurt yourself soon. The strain on such a small part of the body such as the wrist will result in many bad side effects on your nerve , muscle , tendon, and bone. However there are certain instances where the wrist is used and thats usually emergency situations where your positioning is off or sudden movements required to flick the ball across. Good luck guys
Ugh I’ve been watching so many forehand topspin videos and they emphasize using the wrist (Patrick Mouratogolou is an example), and they would talk about “turning the doorknob” and I would assume this happens a few milliseconds after the moment of contact? B/c every once in a while I would run across a video like this that discourages an isolating wrist movement, and if it helps avoid injury I am all for it but then the difference between a flat and topspin shots starts to get unclear in terms of their execution 😢
Let me try and help. From my two year struggle fixing my forehand. I have learnt three important things. These will give you consistency in power and depth and spin 1. Hit the ball at waist height. Move your feet to always get your contact at waist height. When under prescue from wrong positioning, an error window between chest and thigh is fine. But at all cost try and hit most balls from waist height 2. no matter your grip and swing path always make sure ur string bed face net at contact and the leading edge of the head of the racket faces the fence. Not the floor. To achieve this your hitting arm must be away from yourpur body as far as reasonably possible at contact 3. Take your time. This comes naturally as you wait for the ball to reach the right height. But take your time before you swing through the ball. You can even pause a second once your racket is back, to drive through the ball. This takes all the potential energy stored in the racket and drives it through the ball. If you can do these three consistently u won't care about wrist snap and lag and pronation and what nots
@@propgee hey I appreciate the effort in your post! I agree with all 3 points and it’s definitely a good reminder on some fundamentals. The first advice will help me immensely as I have been neglecting hitting balls waist high vs a friend who likes to hit a lot of topspin. So thanks!
Tbh, you don't look like a hard hitter, just like a guy with very soft string tension on his racket. However, i agree with all the other stuff about wrist movement, makes no sense except maybe in T-court tennis. Interrupts the kinetic chain and momentum.
The players that hit with the most topspin do the opposite!!!! They use NO wrist!!!! The more relaxed the wrist is, the more whip-like action you can get!!!! Watch players on the other side of the net trying to roll over the top of the ball, create their own lag, etc. When I ask if they are intentionally engaging the wrist, the answer is always yes and they are creating hardly any spin!!!!! Loosey goosey always delivers the biggest ball for me!!!
If high level players themselves claim to feel that they are using the wrist, what difference does it make if they’re technically not by a few ms? Isn’t it the feel that’s important to you as a player? What’s actually physically happening is more or less irrelevant
Hi guys. I like the author and respect him as a coach, but what he explains in the video is absolutely not true. If you hit the ball the way he shows, there is no need of wrist motion.why? Because he pushes the ball with no topspin and on absolute passive position. Second, none of the mention specialist and players said that you hit with wrist, but using it is absolutely needed as the rotational motion of the forearm.
You’re saying he pushes the ball? Lol you see how hard he hits it? You’ve got to have topspin to keep that kind of shot in the court so your comment doesn’t make sense
Absolutely no movement of the wrist on Tiafoe’s Forehand at and shortly after contact. Easily observable in super slow examination of the contact zone.
@@IntuitiveTennis As a commentator on the game Tiafoe vs. Alcaraz, Sascha Zverev explained that all coaches had tried unsuccessfully to stop him from folding his wrist on the forehand, he is the only player on the tour to do that.
Nick you are using your wrist yourself. You are talking about pronation. That's not the conversation. The conversation is about flexion of the wrist. Not a muscular action. But that's where the speed is coming from. It's basic physics.
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Wrist flicking is a problem in club tennis because it exposes the wrist to the g forces of the ball.. So I prefer to keep the butt pointing at the incoming ball so I can protect the wrists from exposure to the ball before I do any pronation with it so I use small compact swings, not big massive loops.....So before I hit the ball I make sure first that my wrists are lined up with the ball so they are not exposed. I use the forearm and shoulder for the pronation.
You have the strongest wrist I've ever seen.
Nick, believe it or not, i've just had a debate about that with some of my students and i said exactly your words.
I'm totally into your intuitive method and i can't be more grateful about the favour you're doing to the world of tennis.
Thanks Coach again and ever, from Italy.
Thank you Eddie 🙏
Excellent tennis tips and myth bust. Helps a lot of tennis injuries. Thank you so much.
👍🎾🙏👏
Nik is correct. Indeed, one could argue that purposefully not moving the wrist will be useful to encourage a correct low to high swing-path (with the whole arm-body system).
Thank you for covering this topic. I think this needs to be the FIRST lesson in playing tennis. I just started playing and injured my wrist a bit. Do more lessons
I remember your other video about the wrist being static at contact. Once I started to practice with a static wrist, and elbow, swinging from my shoulder along with the torso rotation, my forehand fixed itself.
I was always doing that windshield wiper with the wrist and forearm, and my forehand landed short with a lot of spin.
Now it goes deep, with natural topspin, towards the baseline.
Best advice to a beginner, and intermediate, "static wrist and elbow through contact".
Solid video.
Can you please give the to that video ?
@@KnowledgeGuide859 ruclips.net/video/mp7HV7vHEC0/видео.html
I wait for this vid for a loooong time! For me is quite obvious that you have right! Thanks again! 👍
And will destroy your wrist not only your FH! Exactly in that way you said!
It all depends on what is meant by 'using the wrist'. The wrist is a (hinge) joint which should be allowed to move as part of good technique, but the muscles, that can be contracted to move the wrist, should not be used. As the wrist is, in fact, a joint, I would say that you should 'use the wrist' and that, actually, you are using your wrist, in your own powerful forehand shots, that you demonstrate in this video. Most beginners don't use their wrist, though, in that it doesn't move; rather it maintains a straight line along the forearm and the racket.
coming from a golfers perspective and a newbe to tennis--any early wrist or forearm rotation totally collapses the arm with no recovery....Nic is 100 % correct!!
Thanks Nick! My coach explained to me today the very same thing.
I agree...Nick is 100% right on this. I think there's a lot of confusion in general about tennis strokes. What Pro players really do is have a very relaxed arm and that is what helps with power and racket head acceleration. When you watch Monfils his wrist kinda rollls over at the end of the stroke, but I believe that is just the result of a very loose, relaxed stroke. I think he is one of the most relaxed players in regard to his strokes.
Thanks for your videos. I watched the wronge videos trying to learn and ended up overusing my wrist on serves and ground strokes. Now i have tennis and golfers elbow that i need to manage, slowly changing but it takes time. Thanks again.
Hey Nikola,
Cool vídeos as always. We all seem to put só much attention into the wrist, while indeed a Number of factors contribute to the effectiveness of the shot, such as your grip, the path of motion of the racket, the kinetic chain...
I guess the point, as you mentioned, really stands in the fact people watching tennis do not focus so much on slow motion sequences (as they are seen far and few between in tv) and get só impressed by the final, wrist unloading phase of the hit.
Cool Job man,
Nicola
Again super great content nick, im 5.0 tennis player and i love your technical videos, your videos help me to focus on right things on my all strokes. Can u make volley tactic videos?
Great video Nick! Thank you for the reminder!! ❤
Thank you Natachi
Video esemplare è fondamentale per tutelare la salute del tennista. Complimenti.
🙏
Great video Nick, i like it!
Ahh 😵 I'm one of those students that conceptualizes everything. Its a two edged sword. Sometimes, after thinking and analyzing video of myself and pros, i find a huge jumping breakthrough in my game... then i overthink something and ruin it for awhile. It's a vicious cycle.
However, I have noticed in the last 6 months as I have gotten more advanced, it has become easier to sort out the bad. Doing something correctly should feel right. And it's crazy that if you are feeling pain you are probably doing something wrong.
That's my problem, thank you for clarifying!!
Great video & explaination. Thanks!
I had thought the wrist was part of the modern tennis. Thanks for pointing out it's only during the follow through.
Hey Nick, I took a lesson with a different coach than usual last week and they instructed me that I should snap my wrist and "pronate" when serving. I tried to force myself to do it, and it hurt like hell afterward. I stopped after 10-15 serves and started doing it without wrist action and my consistency went up, and they actually said - to my surprise - "see how much better it is with wrist motion"! I couldn't believe it. Clearly something about the fast pace and/or slow-motion videos makes them think that the wrist is where power lies. Either that or that famous PM coach that's always talking about it.
As for PM just PR
Hey Coach, great video as always. Hope you and yours are OK from hurricane Ian. 😬
Couldn’t agree more with Nick, just going to add that with a forced wrist movement you may even get injured. I tried so hard to get more topspin with the wrong technique, that I ended up with tennis elbow. It feels pretty bad and I don’t see myself on the tennis court any soon. So one more reason to take Nick’s really seriously.
So good and clear
I agree 100%. Great advice!
I feel like the wrist still moves slightly, but it's a natural and very small movement as your racquet hand grips a bit tighter to absorb the impact of the incoming ball.
I think the wrist is passive but plays a role in power generation. I used to hit my forehand with the lag (wrist extension), which is correct, but locked it there for the windshield wiper motion, which is also correct, which means my finish will still see my wrist extension towards my face. The problem with that is, though it generates a lot of topspin, there is not much power to it, even when I load on my legs, and tried to drive through it more, it was still lacking somehow. Then I realised the finish of most pros ends with wrist flexion.
I agree that on ball contact the racket is flat (wrist extension/lag) but, by imagining and actively wanting to hit towards a wrist flexion motion (visualising slapping with windshield) and flexing around the middle of the body, the end result is more acceleration and spin as the racket will travel in a different path as compared to locking the wrist in the lag position with just the windshield wiper motion (also that tends to spin up high on some balls especially with rackets like pure aero). Visualising and actively wanting to do the wrist slap actually achieves the opposite of what you said for me, I use more twisting motion of the arm forward instead of just the windshield wiper motion upwards and over, thereby achieving more spin and power. Maybe different people just has different mechanics, what was natural to me and looks good (with my locked lagged wrist extension) is actually counter-intuitive for power especially. So I do think some coaches advice are correct. To me it's like visualising a carving path (with palm facing out and then down) of the ball instead of the palm doing the windshield wiper motion with the palm facing forward all the time.
Great video my friend. I agree with you 100% right my friend.
🙏
Thank you for this. Would love to hear your interpretation of how Patrick Mouratoglou teaches the forehand. In his videos he talks about a loose hand (I notice he never mentions wrist) and throwing the head of the racket through the shot with acceleration. Very loose and, little effort.
Well, i'm no expert but i think the reason for the wrist movement at the end of the stroke must be due to a loose wrist. And the loose wrist should be important for the wrist lag, which helps generate racket head speed and thus power/spin in the modern atp forehand style. So if your wrist doesn't move eventually, it means it wasn't loose and/or myb you had no body rotation, so it is an indicator for missing out on power/spin generation opportunities in the beginning of the kinetic chain/ technique. "Throwing the racket" should could help with conceptualizing the racket lag, because if you throw a ball f.e.you have a "lagging wrist" aswell. Thats how i understood it so far.
Great video as always. Thank you Nick.
I think I use my wrist in forehang in low balls and on extreme open balls when hit from out side of the ball. Is this a mistake too?
Hard to say wo seeing it
I wonder if it's more about relaxing the wrist and at the point of contact, the wrist just happens to be straight/passive as that's how the kinetic chain works for maximum power?
Completely agree! Moreover, I learned about it from you, Nick, and it's been already long time ago. Only I don’t understand why many coaches and players talk about the wrist and try to convince us that it is important?? May be they want to say something else instead? Like relaxed feeling of the arm during follow through?
Thanks for the video. I've struggled a lot with wrist and thumb pain (base of the thumb) in the past. One of the reasons was a way too loose wrist right before and after the contact.
Loose wrist is unnecessary and can be dangerous ruclips.net/video/1fuKj6rRDw4/видео.html
Absolutely right! Don't use the wrist. However, I think you need to better define what it means to use the wrist. As I understand it, use of the wrist means that the hand changes position with respect to the forearm. If the forearm and the hand turn forward in sync, and the hand stays in the same position with respect to the forearm, the wrist remains inactive. In that instance what you've performed is pronation, and there's no wrist action. At times in this video you seem to show pronation as wrist action.
3.45 and 6.50 is not wrist ( or let say hand ) its underarm ( wrist can radial to ulnar and extension to flexion ) the windshield is done by underarm and shoulder
It was really good
Agree that the wrist does not generate power, but it has a role in stroke, it redirects the power, combining fingers it can changes racquet's openness and angle.
many many years ago when I first learned how to play tennis, the instructor was adamant about NOT to use the wrist as you will injure yourself. But now I am surprised to hear that actually people tell you to use your wrist so I am confused. Well least somebody is teaching it the old fashioned way.
Moreover, you can end up with a tennis elbow injury due to hyper extending the muscles of the forearm with that movement. The way I am trying to fix that movement is thinking of letting the tip of the racket go forward after contact.
I agree with you Sir 100 percent.
Makes a lot of sense. The wrist is very small compared to the arm, so it would be very inefficient if you tried to use it as your main source of topspin. Could also lead to significant injuries.
very useful!
💯
Hey nick, just wondering if you do video analysis for subscribers or not?
Yes link in description
Great instruction. If you don’t pay attention to coach Nick, you will have tennis elbow with forearm rotation and will never be able to handle moon ballers and low paced opponents. Rafa generates heavy top spin via supination of the arm with a lose wrist and the finish looks wristy but its not.
What about focusing on having a loose wrist and laying it back pre-contact?
It doesn't work. Take it from someone who has had grief on his forehand
The vid is 100% correct. Regarding loose wrist: depends how loose and when. ‚laying it back‘ - only as a passive result of arm/forearm movement. No conscious movement of the wrist during forward phase pre-contact.
Yes your wrist neutral,meaning that the fingers are pointing ca. 45 degrees up and not down right after contact (as a long stict) the arm bends after that.
True but partially.
The wrist, like the rest of the arm, is « softly » involved in the motion. But more in a continuous and relax movement with the forearm than that a brutal snap.
It’s equally wrong to say that you should wrist flick and that the wrist isn’t involved at all in tennis strokes.
That’s why many coaches talk about the wrist use. Many are wrong when they talk about flicking it brutally at contact. But the feeling of using maybe more the hand at contact Than the wrist is 100% correct.
Anyway it’s not about strength in the arm and the wrist, but everything about being relax. In that case, no risk of injuries.
You have to feel both hand work at contact and proper follow through the ball. The right point in the video is that the motion is not partial indeed, but done with the whole arm (including slight use of the hand/wrist in a continuous motion, explaining why with the speed you can’t see a change in the first 3 frames after contact).
I think some people think the shoulder rotation during the windshield wiper is a wrist movement. I had this perception when I started play tennis.
i stopped playing in 2009 and now starting to play again. i remember then was lock the wrist...lock the wrist. but i have seen so many videos these days that says accelerate with the wrist..dont lock your wrist...has tennis technique evolved together with the better rackets today? ( i even remembered hurting my wrist cos i tried to control a volley by using the wrist)
YESSSSSS, exactly 👍
Now I'm really confused what about the wrist snap on moment of contact on serve, many level coaches talk about that being the power source of serving?????
Nikola would disagree with them. This is his video about the wrist on the serve, ruclips.net/video/6uOZsYyrEy0/видео.html , and at about 5.38 he talks about the importance of not snapping your wrist downwards.
Also, see ruclips.net/user/shorts6JjbeVUuGhE
You don’t snap the wrist at moment of contact on serve. You pronate the arm.
It's harsh to say but many coaches are wrong. There should be no "snap" of the wrist. This is a misconception that arises - I think - from baseball throwing, where there is some added power coming from a combination of pronation and wrist snap. And even there I'm not so sure, but I'm not a baseball connoisseur. In tennis the power comes 1) from the legs and 2) from the arm propelling itself in line with the upward motion caused by the legs. Because we lead the racket on edge we are pronating it into contact. That rotation may transfer some of its energy into the contact, but that is fairly limited, and it should not be understood as a "snapping" motion. Snapping the wrist will make you lose control on the serve. And since a snap by definition is changing the direction of the force, it might actually reduce power.
This has bedeviled me as well, and the coach I just went over it with said it in a way that makes sense to me, that I think aligns with Nik's video: I was so focused on the big muscles of the shoulder and arm that I was subconsciously tightening/locking my wrist, which was hugely reducing the racket head speed.
So he didn't want me to snap my wrist, but loosen it so it could naturally flow through the stroke. I think the confusion comes because some people interpret that feeling as a "snap," because after the point of contact your hand can make that dead duck shape. Whereas when I would hear that advice I would think that the teacher or video wanted me to actively flick the wrist at the point of contact. Seems like an example difficulty of describing bodily feelings and motions generally.
Medvedev uses so much wrist you can often see it on his "jammed" forehands. I've been using 18 Guage black Widow and that wrist whip. At 55 years old I'm destroying opponents with super top spin.
I should state I play without the pinky finger on the raquet which makes it easy. I also use a 2 grip and will move to a 1 soon.
@@dunsdonjone1537 Dunlop black widow, soft shaped poly, probably slightly softer than Hyper G but not much
Why are there always weirdos like this on every RUclips channel?
@@user-et4yz8me8s Anytime.
I believe what pm means when he says to have a loose wrist is to keep it relaxed so that the head of the rather drops and you can use gravity to create a whip like stroke when you accelerate forward. The wrist stays static on contact and may move very slightly depending on what type of shot your hitting. If you watch his videos Pm is always asking his players to hit the short cross to pull the ball wide so he wants more topspin but if your trying to hot a safe deep shot you won't have any wrist. BTW intuitive tennis is by far the easiest to understand and explain. Pm instructions easily get misinterpreted.
Hello, what grip should I use for the backhand?
One or two?
As much as you might be right Nick, there are many top coaches getting players to use the wrist like Rick Macci and mouratoglou and they are and have produced many top level players.
I've been coaching 25yrs and I think the wrist is needed on certain shots as technique is situational to where you are on the court.
I love your videos but I think this debate will rage on
I gotta be doing something wrong with my wrist. My pinky/ring finger both locked up on me, woke up unable to move either of them. Dunno what I'm doing wrong but looks like I'm not playing Tennis for awhile 😵
👋🏻 I was looking up videos of golfer’s elbow and saw that the ulnar nerve goes to these fingers? A doctor or physical might be able to see if it’s ulnar nerve entrapment? Get well soon, and hope you’re back on the court soon.
Hey 2flow, I have that same condition with the ring and pinky fingers getting locked in a close position in the mornings.
Like 13Gauge mentioned before me, it is likely a nerve entrapment and you should get it checked if possible. I got mine from a combination of poor posture (some nerves compressed in my cervicals) and hitting my forehand super late. Hope this helps, but really do see a doctor, and let us know how it goes. Cheers.
Happened to me months ago (trigger pinky finger). I had to rest and take medicines. For me it was all about how I hold the racket, I changed the grip and the problem never came back
is just look like they use the wrist ......but the true is the top play do not use the wrist. Thank you for you tips.
So, finally i have to know... Is it ok to use a kind of forearm pronation during contact on short low ball close to the net or does we have to just focus on bend knees and drop the raquet and accelerate like a normal forehand in order to keep the ball inside the court ?
That m'y entire life question at the moment and i'm very frustrated these Times...
The second part is the best
@@propgee what do you mean ?
When I am attempting to hit a passing shot and want the ball to drop extremely shallow, is it ok to use the forearm/wrist for more spin?
Good thing I used my wrist before watching this video. Normally you are right completely or partially but this video didn't qualify in the title is just plain wrong. My opinion is after careful consideration of my previous opinion that your previous video is usually mostly correct, it depends on the grip. I used to use semi western grip and western grip so I know those grips provide more topspin. I now used eastern grip and I recently use my wrist because I couldn't hit in a fast deep shot to my FH. That night I made my opponent committed unforced error off my new FH. I haven't use my wrist on other FH grips but I personally believe it should work just as well because I believe all pros have the same foundation and using the wrist is an important part of that foundation. I should qualify my statement that using the wrist should be the very last step after all other steps were follow aka the holy grail of technique. It might just be me but my body is tired even after taking magnesium citrate after and a good night sleep so that might be a barrier to the recreational tennis player. Hence why I'm confused that Nikola made this video as he should know.
No offense but I think Nikola is too used to his technique that he's just unwilling to change and also his technique bailed him out on the offensive end that he never has to defend which is what using the wrist will greatly help. I like to see Nike turn defense into attack. The fact he can't is because he can't use his wrist to generate that extra power. Also he is older so it's better to keep technique simple rather than losing easy points on the offensive end than to winning difficult point on the defensive end.
The thing is if you haven't personally use your wrist, you wouldn't be able to see it in other pro's as well. After I used my wrist I can see other pro's using their wrists. I'm not telling you to believe me but at least don't dismiss it completely. Try it to see if it works. If it doesn't work keep it in the back of your mind because if you are anything like me you will learn other techniques and after you learn all those other technique is when you are finally ready to try using the wrist again.
I also watch similar basketball youtuber making claims about Steph Curry is using palm instead of fingers as Steph adamantly claim. Is it a trend that youtubers are dismissing advice from pros? One thing I learned is if the pro is saying something is true about something that they are very good at I will believe them because there's nothing in it for them to lie. My opinion is the recreational player simply lacks something to make it work. I'm not saying pros are correct all the time but if they are truly wrong then most likely you are on a huge break through to a new way to play the sport like how federer used straight arm FH and how Curry shoot his three pointers. What are the chance of that happening without helps from others? Abysmally small.
I remember back in the 70s people trying to copy Borg all wrist moon balls with little pace
Zdravo Nikola :)
I would like to hear your opinion on very short and low balls (let' say they land before the service line) that you want to get over the net with some speed so you need some extra topspin on the ball... I understand that the racquet head path must be almost vertical on those shots but i tend to use "some wrist" in those shots... Does that make sense or in other words is that OK to have that state of mind when executing those shots?
How to Play the Short Balls in Tennis ➡️ ruclips.net/video/zbcd2Vqi6B0/видео.html
What are the drills to train it? I used the wrist for several years and now can't "rewrite new skill"((
u probably wont see this, but do u not keep a lose wrist and activate it at the end in order to make sure you finish strong
wrist will be used depending on the shot, but most of the time you shouldn't esp when you hit harder and harder and faster.
For the forhand there is a lag of wrist before contact and the wrist is extended at contact which means there is some action happening with the wrist. Am I right?
Passive movement as opposed to an Active one.
I literally do this lmao. I've gotten wrist pain so I have been trying to use less wrist
The wrist is passive at contact.... cool.
If you use your wrist for impact all the time, you will hurt yourself soon. The strain on such a small part of the body such as the wrist will result in many bad side effects on your nerve , muscle , tendon, and bone. However there are certain instances where the wrist is used and thats usually emergency situations where your positioning is off or sudden movements required to flick the ball across. Good luck guys
Ugh I’ve been watching so many forehand topspin videos and they emphasize using the wrist (Patrick Mouratogolou is an example), and they would talk about “turning the doorknob” and I would assume this happens a few milliseconds after the moment of contact? B/c every once in a while I would run across a video like this that discourages an isolating wrist movement, and if it helps avoid injury I am all for it but then the difference between a flat and topspin shots starts to get unclear in terms of their execution 😢
Let me try and help. From my two year struggle fixing my forehand. I have learnt three important things. These will give you consistency in power and depth and spin
1. Hit the ball at waist height. Move your feet to always get your contact at waist height. When under prescue from wrong positioning, an error window between chest and thigh is fine. But at all cost try and hit most balls from waist height
2. no matter your grip and swing path always make sure ur string bed face net at contact and the leading edge of the head of the racket faces the fence. Not the floor. To achieve this your hitting arm must be away from yourpur body as far as reasonably possible at contact
3. Take your time. This comes naturally as you wait for the ball to reach the right height. But take your time before you swing through the ball. You can even pause a second once your racket is back, to drive through the ball. This takes all the potential energy stored in the racket and drives it through the ball.
If you can do these three consistently u won't care about wrist snap and lag and pronation and what nots
@@propgee hey I appreciate the effort in your post! I agree with all 3 points and it’s definitely a good reminder on some fundamentals. The first advice will help me immensely as I have been neglecting hitting balls waist high vs a friend who likes to hit a lot of topspin. So thanks!
I experienced this on my forehand and lost power, controller and injured my wrist.
It took me months to recreate from my wrist-forehand.
Tbh, you don't look like a hard hitter, just like a guy with very soft string tension on his racket. However, i agree with all the other stuff about wrist movement, makes no sense except maybe in T-court tennis. Interrupts the kinetic chain and momentum.
The players that hit with the most topspin do the opposite!!!! They use NO wrist!!!! The more relaxed the wrist is, the more whip-like action you can get!!!! Watch players on the other side of the net trying to roll over the top of the ball, create their own lag, etc. When I ask if they are intentionally engaging the wrist, the answer is always yes and they are creating hardly any spin!!!!! Loosey goosey always delivers the biggest ball for me!!!
If high level players themselves claim to feel that they are using the wrist, what difference does it make if they’re technically not by a few ms? Isn’t it the feel that’s important to you as a player? What’s actually physically happening is more or less irrelevant
True, this instruction is for players who are consciously using wrist. HL players are fine
Yes, that wrist movement is an EFFECT of the stroke/swing and NOT A CAUSE.
Hi guys. I like the author and respect him as a coach, but what he explains in the video is absolutely not true. If you hit the ball the way he shows, there is no need of wrist motion.why? Because he pushes the ball with no topspin and on absolute passive position. Second, none of the mention specialist and players said that you hit with wrist, but using it is absolutely needed as the rotational motion of the forearm.
You’re saying he pushes the ball? Lol you see how hard he hits it? You’ve got to have topspin to keep that kind of shot in the court so your comment doesn’t make sense
Moritoglu teaches to use the wrist, funny that guy what he teaches contrary to bio mechanics 👎 agree with you nick 👍
Jack Sock uses a lot of wrist
The wrist is just along for the ride.
This isn't ping pong.
Igor Andreev uses a lot of wrist.
There is definitely one top player who is using his wrist: Frances Tiafoe.
Absolutely no movement of the wrist on Tiafoe’s Forehand at and shortly after contact. Easily observable in super slow examination of the contact zone.
@@IntuitiveTennis As a commentator on the game Tiafoe vs. Alcaraz, Sascha Zverev explained that all coaches had tried unsuccessfully to stop him from folding his wrist on the forehand, he is the only player on the tour to do that.
@@bournejason66 Correct.
Bist Du der Janitor aus Scrubs? 😉
Nick you are using your wrist yourself.
You are talking about pronation. That's not the conversation.
The conversation is about flexion of the wrist. Not a muscular action. But that's where the speed is coming from. It's basic physics.
Kasatkina is probably the worst offender.
Coaches that say wrist snap on the serve 😭
😭😭
Error, forgive them
Way too funny. Ten minutes of talking about movement of the wrist and not a single mention of "wrist lag". :D
That's why I don't like Patrick Mouratoglu's lessons. I got injured because of HIM!! He always says wrist wrist wrist.......
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