Chang says that when playing fast the thumb doesn't pass under the hand at all. He also claims that this technique is not taught. You mentioned his book in another video.
I could agree with this on arpeggios probably, but when I personally play scales fast, I tend to use methods 2&3 explained in video. There is no The One technique type, each hand is different
I read this, it is discussed as a highly controversial "book" which is available online. I think, fast scales simply come with fast moving forarms and arms, and fingers follow. There is no real "thumb over". How could that be possible? The main idea is to use miminized movements and just go forward instead of staying at the thumb or stress the hand. I had a time when my fingers were kind of glued to the keys played, and my teacher Elina Akselrud (great teache!!!, wife of Denis) taught me to release immediately in fast passages with practice. This is so important. Denis talks about it in almost all his educational videos. Do not overthink. Taubman is more into rotating forearms with double rotation for scales. There is something to it that feels very good but is not far away from natural relaxed playing Denis talks about anyway. It uses all kinds of movements (and no stress) which become invisible after some time. Probably, most professional players do not worry as they can't play but naturally with minimum effort to achieve speed and good sound.
Another great, synthetic but pretty comprehensive discussion of a crucial topic in piano practice! My experience is that with correct hand position - natural finger line, straight wrist etc. - thumb passage is not a big issue in learning scales, it comes almost automatically. Much more problematic for arpeggios. I have quite stiff finger/hand joints, unfortunately. My teacher strongly agrees with you in the advice to follow the weaker hand while practising with both hands.
Hi Denis. I find it very efficient to roll with your thumb in descending scales with the right hand and ascending scales with the left hand as the 3rd and 4th fingers fall into place very naturally.
Hi Denis, all your videos are excellent. You are the clearest and most intelligent insightful pianist pedagogue on youtube. As you know previously i'm working on my RH thumb. I think in correct piano playing the thumb is not pressing the key down from the finger but uses the forearm inner rotation clockwise (RH). Unlike other fingers, the thumb finger two articulations serves to place it horizontally on top of the key to play (black or white key also) but has awkward vertical mobility and needs forearm micro rotation to play a note. I think my static thumb tension issue when the thumb is leading comes from trying to use the thumb finger two articulations only (which is not enough) and not using deliberate forearm rotation to provide leverage and more vertical motion to the thumb. It's such a subtle micro rotation that it's invisible but it's everything. And when the thumb is trailing the music then my mistake is to not immediately release the thumb when finger 2 or 3 is playing. Op 10 n8 Chopin's etude is showing me that (it really is a scale study with one jump more than an arpegio study). If i do these two things it seems to help me : - rotate forearm clockwise to play leading RH thumb note. - relax thumb when RH thumb is trailing as soon as finger 2 or 3 is playing. Actually intending to bend the last articulation outside seems to help (At least in slow tempo until i unlearn) to avoid the static thumb tension i am trying to eliminate. Op 25 n1 also i was making the mistake to try to hold the trailing thumb note even when the finger 2 is playing instead of imediately releasing and using more non finger joints to get other fingers where they need to go on the keyboard (elbow and hand angles).
Hello Denis, i have finger “stuck” in the C-major scale(and this kind of passage) i have tried to solve the problem different ways but i could not, when i play fast, this problem is staying the same. Could you make long video about this problem? and how could we solve this one??
Hello Dennis. If I understand you correctly, you recommend playing for example the C Major and the relative minor (A minor) at the same time? I down loaded your 11 arpeggio exercise and have leaned them through F# so far. Can only play them slowly but making progress. Thanks for providing this valuable piano material for us adults that are trying to gain better piano skills.
Hi. Thank you. Enjoyed your videos. I am adult piano player. Question I have is how can I simultaneously hit first finger in scales goin up and change positions of hand if at his point second finger is still engaged
Hello Dennis. I down loaded your 11 arpeggio exercise and have worked my way through F# so far. Can only play them slowly but making progress. I find that some arpeggios are difficult to execute. If I understand you correctly, you recommend on scales to play for example C Major and the relative minor (A minor) at the same time? Thanks for providing your excellent videos for us adult piano students.
@@DenZhdanovPianistone thing to add on to this, I've found that if I stick to just major and natural minor for the first couple days with a scale, adding in the melodic and harmonic minors are then a good test of solidity of the major and natural minor. When I know something well, I can deviate from it slightly without throwing myself off, so if I'm not able to quickly get the harmonic / melodic scales up to roughly the same tempo as the maj/nat min scales, my fluency with the maj/nat min is not quite there yet. I've also found that, at a bit slower tempo, throwing in unplanned/off-the-cuff turns in the scales also tests solidity, and is a good exercise for classical pieces as well.
@@DenZhdanovPianist haha I can do without Joe Biden quote 😅 but yes angling the hand is an old skool idea that's worth rethinking about as well as keeping the wrist quiet
When playing several octave scales do you count 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4... sticking to the same rhythmic pattern in each octave, or do you count pure sixteenth all the time 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4... which however shifts the rhythmic pattern related to the octaves?
FYI, Denis…..your terminology is incorrect……the “parallel” minor of E Major is e minor. C# minor is the “relative” minor of E Major….They are “related” because they share the same key signature.
Thank you, I just realized this mistake yesterday. In my native language we do use this terminology indeed, which confused me. I, too, sometimes say "gift" in German, even though the word actually means "poison" in German, and I am generally an expert on embarrassing clauses. But when I feel too embarrassed, I watch American bloggers, most of whom don't know languages at all and can't pronounce any foreign names correctly haha 😂
In Chuang Chang's book "Fundamentals on Piano Practice" he says thumb over is preferable to thumb under. What does he mean?
Would need a little context
Chang says that when playing fast the thumb doesn't pass under the hand at all. He also claims that this technique is not taught. You mentioned his book in another video.
I could agree with this on arpeggios probably, but when I personally play scales fast, I tend to use methods 2&3 explained in video.
There is no The One technique type, each hand is different
@@DenZhdanovPianist Thank you so much. your videos and courses have changed my life.
I read this, it is discussed as a highly controversial "book" which is available online. I think, fast scales simply come with fast moving forarms and arms, and fingers follow. There is no real "thumb over". How could that be possible? The main idea is to use miminized movements and just go forward instead of staying at the thumb or stress the hand. I had a time when my fingers were kind of glued to the keys played, and my teacher Elina Akselrud (great teache!!!, wife of Denis) taught me to release immediately in fast passages with practice. This is so important. Denis talks about it in almost all his educational videos. Do not overthink. Taubman is more into rotating forearms with double rotation for scales. There is something to it that feels very good but is not far away from natural relaxed playing Denis talks about anyway. It uses all kinds of movements (and no stress) which become invisible after some time. Probably, most professional players do not worry as they can't play but naturally with minimum effort to achieve speed and good sound.
Thank you very much for a great and useful instruction.
Посмотрел несколько видео. Привыкал к подаче материала 🙂
Подписался.
Спасибо вам, Денис!
Another great, synthetic but pretty comprehensive discussion of a crucial topic in piano practice! My experience is that with correct hand position - natural finger line, straight wrist etc. - thumb passage is not a big issue in learning scales, it comes almost automatically. Much more problematic for arpeggios. I have quite stiff finger/hand joints, unfortunately.
My teacher strongly agrees with you in the advice to follow the weaker hand while practising with both hands.
Hi Denis. I find it very efficient to roll with your thumb in descending scales with the right hand and ascending scales with the left hand as the 3rd and 4th fingers fall into place very naturally.
Great information on scales ! Thanks, Denis.
Thanks for the instructive video. Very helpful. Would you mind doing something about pedaling in Mozart sonatas?
Hi Denis, all your videos are excellent. You are the clearest and most intelligent insightful pianist pedagogue on youtube. As you know previously i'm working on my RH thumb. I think in correct piano playing the thumb is not pressing the key down from the finger but uses the forearm inner rotation clockwise (RH). Unlike other fingers, the thumb finger two articulations serves to place it horizontally on top of the key to play (black or white key also) but has awkward vertical mobility and needs forearm micro rotation to play a note. I think my static thumb tension issue when the thumb is leading comes from trying to use the thumb finger two articulations only (which is not enough) and not using deliberate forearm rotation to provide leverage and more vertical motion to the thumb. It's such a subtle micro rotation that it's invisible but it's everything. And when the thumb is trailing the music then my mistake is to not immediately release the thumb when finger 2 or 3 is playing. Op 10 n8 Chopin's etude is showing me that (it really is a scale study with one jump more than an arpegio study).
If i do these two things it seems to help me :
- rotate forearm clockwise to play leading RH thumb note.
- relax thumb when RH thumb is trailing as soon as finger 2 or 3 is playing. Actually intending to bend the last articulation outside seems to help (At least in slow tempo until i unlearn) to avoid the static thumb tension i am trying to eliminate.
Op 25 n1 also i was making the mistake to try to hold the trailing thumb note even when the finger 2 is playing instead of imediately releasing and using more non finger joints to get other fingers where they need to go on the keyboard (elbow and hand angles).
Thanks for the kind words, I am happy this channel has helped you! Great job, looks like you have a breakthrough!
Thanks. Very useful.
Very helpful. Thanks
Great information, please keep with the videos about scales. For exemplo, how to play Bb scale.
Very helpful
Thank you very much, Denis!
(... Guess I was elevating the thumb and the wrist too much...)
0:30 *this is the way*
Hello Denis, i have finger “stuck” in the C-major scale(and this kind of passage) i have tried to solve the problem different ways but i could not, when i play fast, this problem is staying the same. Could you make long video about this problem? and how could we solve this one??
I don’t quite understand what you mean by “stuck”
@@DenZhdanovPianist When i play the scales(C-major especially) my 2-3-4 fingers do not lift the right time and sounds dirty. Finger lifting problem
Hello Dennis. If I understand you correctly, you recommend playing for example the C Major and the relative minor (A minor) at the same time? I down loaded your 11 arpeggio exercise and have leaned them through F# so far. Can only play them slowly but making progress. Thanks for providing this valuable piano material for us adults that are trying to gain better piano skills.
Hi. Thank you. Enjoyed your videos. I am adult piano player. Question I have is how can I simultaneously hit first finger in scales goin up and change positions of hand if at his point second finger is still engaged
Do you mean you play scales using fingers 1-2-1-2 etc?
@@DenZhdanovPianist not at all. Difficult to explain. Sorry for confusion. Enjoying your classes and planning to see more at it comes
0:28 LMAO
Даа, таких учителей довелось мне повстречать... Слава Богу, что косвенно))
Hello Dennis. I down loaded your 11 arpeggio exercise and have worked my way through F# so far. Can only play them slowly but making progress. I find that some arpeggios are difficult to execute. If I understand you correctly, you recommend on scales to play for example C Major and the relative minor (A minor) at the same time? Thanks for providing your excellent videos for us adult piano students.
Sorry about the repeat. Did not think text went through.
Playing the relative minor as well makes it faster to get used to both scales while using same keys. But it’s just a recommendation
@@DenZhdanovPianistone thing to add on to this, I've found that if I stick to just major and natural minor for the first couple days with a scale, adding in the melodic and harmonic minors are then a good test of solidity of the major and natural minor. When I know something well, I can deviate from it slightly without throwing myself off, so if I'm not able to quickly get the harmonic / melodic scales up to roughly the same tempo as the maj/nat min scales, my fluency with the maj/nat min is not quite there yet. I've also found that, at a bit slower tempo, throwing in unplanned/off-the-cuff turns in the scales also tests solidity, and is a good exercise for classical pieces as well.
Ok this answers my op 27 no 1 questions 😃
“This is a day of relief and celebration” - Joe Biden🥹
@@DenZhdanovPianist haha I can do without Joe Biden quote 😅 but yes angling the hand is an old skool idea that's worth rethinking about as well as keeping the wrist quiet
😂😂 sorrrry
When playing several octave scales do you count 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3, 1-2-3-4... sticking to the same rhythmic pattern in each octave, or do you count pure sixteenth all the time 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4, 1-2-3-4... which however shifts the rhythmic pattern related to the octaves?
The second!
FYI, Denis…..your terminology is incorrect……the “parallel” minor of E Major is e minor. C# minor is the “relative” minor of E Major….They are “related” because they share the same key signature.
Thank you, I just realized this mistake yesterday. In my native language we do use this terminology indeed, which confused me.
I, too, sometimes say "gift" in German, even though the word actually means "poison" in German, and I am generally an expert on embarrassing clauses. But when I feel too embarrassed, I watch American bloggers, most of whom don't know languages at all and can't pronounce any foreign names correctly haha 😂
@@DenZhdanovPianist Love your last sentence.