Hey all, if you think the video is worthy, leaving a like, comment, or sharing it with others can likely help out the channel a lot. Thank you! 0:00 Intro 0:40 Part I: Sato et al. 4:05 Part II: Full Range of Motion? 7:05 Part III: Other Data 9:23 Part IV: Regional Hypertrophy 10:06 Part V: Some Considerations 11:38 Part VI: Takeaways
Interesting....but with preacher curls, only the bottom half of the exercise is worth doing - the top half is gravity assisted. Did they take this into account?
It really shows the weaknesses in studies. Some of those exercises like the bicep curls or the leg extensions, there's not going to be a lot of resistance in the second half of the movement no matter what weight you're dealing with. In the case of the DB curl, with gravity pointing down, there's not a lot the bicep has to fight against to move the weight 3-4 inches closer to your body. A lot of the weight will be borne by the forearm bones. You really need resistance that's perpendicular. A better comparison would have been to pull against a resistance cable that is parallel (or thereabouts) to the floor.
This study has been done with multiple mucle groups and the stretched position causes the most muscle growth even over full range of motion the studie he is using didnt donthat but its been proven multiple times with multiple body parts and pieces of equipment that the mucle being trained in a stretched position gets the most growth
So just do some extra half rep pumps at the end of a set like old school bodybuilders used to do to get to failure. Just watch any leg exercise from Tom Platz. You’ll get the idea quickly; )
@@itstime4crusade So just do some extra half rep pumps at the end of a set like old school bodybuilders used to do to get to failure. Just watch any leg exercise from Tom Platz. You’ll get the idea quickly; )
I watched Jay Cutler training many years ago and I noticed this is how he trains. In the stretched portion of a muscle, and pushing through 1/3rd to half way up a movement. Similar to Arnold, if you watch how Arnold bench pressed, he would only move the weight on bench press 1/3rd of the way up. I started training like this and this is where I started seeing most of my gains, and it's how I will always train unless there's an injury that prohibits the fully stretched position.
No joke. I actually just commented the same. I saw Jay Cutler in a video doing this on a hammer press so I did that same thing at the gym the next day. I can bench 260 1rm so I'm still mostly a beginner, but damn those half reps burn the center of my chest like a mofo.
I’m confused to you mean he lowers the bar 1/3 and then fully stretched up or he fully lowers the bar then only up 1/3 of the ways. You said you’ll always train like this unless an injury prohibits fully stretching it. That part confused me.
@@vinyvinycocopuffpassittomenow What Jay Cutler is doing is starting the rep all the way down low, where the chest is most stretched out, and only pushing it up halfway or even less. He's not locking it out. This legitimately works the chest way faster and more intensity than going full lockout. Doing reps with the muscle in a stretched position seems to stimulate more hypertrophy but only as long as you're going hard and taking it near fail.
Longest Range Training is all I do now, and have done for over a year. 1/3 reps are the most significant addition I have ever made to my training! For lats, pulldows JUST PULLING WITH THE LATS does a thorough job. Best of all, 1/3 seated laterals has taken mine, and my trainees, medial delts to a whole new realm. And we have a combined experience of around a century!
I started doing single arm lat pulldowns... you can get your arm way up over your head and a massive stretch in the back. Has totally blown my lats up.
Hey bro, great vid but it's incorrect to use °C when showing angles; that is the notation for temperature in degrees Celsius. For angles u just need the degrees symbol, °.
Damn, I can't believe I did not spot this, haha. That's wild, I guess my brain just automatically types the C. Anyway, thank you for letting me know, hopefully I'll be able to spot and correct myself anytime I may make this mistake in the future :)
Do a bunch of half-rep bench press reps, be sure to get a good stretch at the bottom of the rep. Go to fail, 8-15 rep range. You'll feel a burn/shred down the center of your chest like you've never felt yet.
That was a great integration and take-away of the topic :) I think you could actually also add the triceps (study by Goto et al., 2019) as well Moreover, I think Menno Henselmans also theorized in his take-away on stretch-mediated hypertrophy that strength gains, on the other hand, might be more range-of-motion specific. While hypertrophy, indeed, just needs "enough stretch". Thanks for shedding more light on this promising topic. Love that, and hopefully, there will be more clarification on this topic very soon
Thank you my friend! I agree with Menno's take on strength gains, they like are ROM specific. And yep, I truly hope more research emerges in this area! Also, I guess the Goto et al. study could have been mentioned :)
Another great video. 👌👏 I've been seeing a lot of videos floating around talking about gymnasts' outstanding Biceps development & straight arm strength. The rings basically involve the biceps being in the stretched position with a sh*t ton of mechanical tension. Definitely something to be worked into gradually though, because the biceps are quite vulnerable in this position.
My 2 cents on the leg extension experiment: most leg extension machines provide *too much* resistance in the shortened range, even the ones with variable cams supposedly designed to match the resistance curve of the machine to the strength curve of quadriceps. This means that a trainee using a leg extension with a full ROM may be limited in how much stimulus they can provide in the lengthened range by the fatigue created in the weaker/shortened range. So, in this specific scenario, one may be missing out on the potentially superior hypertrophy stimulus that occurs in the lengthened range. This is possibly why the lengthened group beat out the full ROM group despite the fact the full ROM group also trained in the lengthened range, but if that is the case, the findings of this single study may not necessarily be applicable to other exercises, where such an issue doesn't exist.
@@blackphoenix8932 same as what i was thinking, and the biceps in the preacher curl is at a huge mechanical disadvantage in the lengthened position and the same is true for the hamstrings. This video reminds me of a tiktok i saw a while back where someone was telling ppl to do lateral raises w heavy weights that werent able to do the full ROM. not really sure what the reason was but if i remember correctly it engaged more of the side delt than the rear delt or the other way around or something of that sort. Either way very interesting
Great video! Regarding long muscle length training for the lats, the pullover machine would probably be a better comparison instead of the row. I remember Yates talking about how it was one of his favorites due to it's ability to isolate the lats through a full ROM.
Not surprizing that the 'long length' out performed the short length as 'early phase loading' of an exercise is when the muscle contraction is strongest and therefore more intense. 💪
yes i agree best quad growth ever with reverse nordics but i train them from stretched position (close to the ground) to about half way up then down again works like a dream and awsome pump you can also face away from a low pulley and attach to a belt for increased resistance
Note: As the angle of the curl decreases from the starting point of 90 degrees towards 45 degrees the load that the bicep experiences also decreases. Conversely, starting the curl at full extension (180 degrees) gradually increases the load that the muscle experiences until we hit 90 degrees.
With the back and traps not being affected as much with certain movements I can agree with, but for specific movements. Farmers walks light up my traps and neck like no other and I feel like deadlifts, which the back is mostly stationary acting as a stabilizer AND at a longer length, made parts of my back a bit thicker and i've heard a few people agree with me on that. Dorian Yates had a rather shorter range of motion for his rows where he was mostly upright and he had a monstrous back, at the same time I can't say i've ever seen anyone experienced have a huge back off of low range of motion pullups EXCEPT for the case of beginners or people with weaker backs, who are simply doing the range of motion they are capable of until they grow enough to do a full range pullup. Very cool video, need more studies covering this for sure and maybe not just for hypertrophy, maybe they could watch the effects it has on strength as well. Guys like Clarence Kennedy squat super deep and have a very strong squat and then there's guys like John Haack who also has a monstrous squat, but cuts the squat off at parallel. Could explain the success of Tom Platz, since he was big on range of motion and did a lot of partials in exercises like leg extensions to failure, but the failure was at the longest muscle length range. Gonna have to sub and wait and see
Have you seen the range of motion for the Nautilus pullover? It starts with the elbows overhead and end with elbows by your sides. He had other exercises than the row that stretched his back
For the traps I think maybe one could try the shrug or whatever movement with a tilt towards the opposite (slightly leaning to the right side if training the left traps)? Just a thought. The lats, I've been training with a pulldown machine and thanks to one of your previous videos on this topic I make sure I'm fully stretched in the lats when the bar is up. And I've seen significant progress since. Great video!
Thank you for your kind words, they are really nice to read! That's an interesting idea with regards to tilting towards one side, it could work! but I'm not sure how practical it would be especially with heavier loads :)
Not sure about the trap analogy Would love to see a study done on farmer's carry vs shrugs. I'm starting to believe that extremely heavy load isometric stretching is very beneficial to muscle growth. e.g. carrying heavy objects conditions the body to get better at doing it lol. This kind of study always brings me back to the study done on the (poor) birds with weights strapped to their wings and unable to lift, the constant weight unable to lift, and the constant trying to do so.
I think that's actually a great point with farmer carries, they would technically load the traps under stretch more than shurgs, and maybe there more hypertrophic? Interesting, would love to see future research on it :) The hypertrophy community owes a lot to these birds, numerous (extereme) strething studies have been done on them :(
Whats the point of Farmers carry? If you really wan that weighted stretch, you can simply stand still. You can even use straps and use as much load as your back can handle if you truly want to benefit from the stretch or something like powershrug, the pressure while decending will be very high. Farmers carry is extremely bad muscle building exercise. Only beneficial for core and grip strength.
@@joojotin The traps also work to stabilize the back muscles, when you are moving you require more stability and when you are moving while carrying heavy weights that are also rocking as you're moving means your traps are working overtime.
Sounds like this is in favor of capping off sets with partials after failure. Get both the benefits of full rom and long length training. Good info thanks for the vid
So just do some extra half rep pumps at the end of a set like old school bodybuilders used to do to get to failure. Just watch any leg exercise from Tom Platz. You’ll get the idea quickly ; ) Thanks for the observational studies. Always good to understand why something works better.
@@HouseofHypertrophy It's all good! I tried this half reps in the long range and really enjoyed challenging myself to get more in. Looking forward to getting more results out of them too ; )
with regards to traps, you can check a guy called alphadestiny who preaches the gospel of weighted stretch. Basically huge load, huge stretch, and basically partial reps since it's so heavy and he swears by the gains. You can check his before and after pics. He's also natural. So at least for traps I'd say this concept likely works too. I think training preacher curls in this way has the highest instance of bicep tears tho so i maybe I'd do decline curls or something to induce a stretch in biceps instead.
I believe its better to train back and traps at longer muscle lenghts full rom and partials. They are muscles afterall. It might not work with all exercies tho. Barbell rows and pullups for example are hardest at the contracted position so the resistance profile doesnt match the profile of our muscles, if it did like with some machines, im sure its works the same way as other muscles.
Hey I been weight training from 1978 right up 23.07.2022 I was in the gym yesterday .I will tell you a sceret train you muscle , useing full range of movements with all muscle groups don't do those half way movement .yes I been a bodybuilder yes I win many of those EFBB bodybuilding competition and become British champion many times over and over I see them come and go I am still training heavy .but only because I made my self strong in the body and mind .don't get me rong I was a skinny kid but I build my self up over time .I work my way true all type of weight training .as I said I was a skinny kid so l started of with light weight , as time goes by and years .I then move into useing medium weight training and as time goes by and I got stronger I then started lifting heavy weights , yes I still use full range of movement and the is with all muscle groups .I never do drugs I stay drug free , 110% natural I am now age 59 and I still have big muscles all round .big mistake people made the want it over night so they take the short cut drugs , sad fact they ended up with now muscle .I love natural food keep it simple eat your meat carnivores diet , because meat build meat .in other word meat build muscle , you will get all the amino-acid from beef lamb chicken Turkey salmon soybean .eat papaya and pineapple drink lots of water like the animals you eat.sceret if you really train hard in the gym how many exercises you think you could do in one workout on one body part huge Question you have to think about ?. I tell you a sceret stick yo the basics exercises .sceret just bench-press alone can give you a huge chest if you do it right , in one workout and you will to do the work , and full range of movement .sceret The size of your feet is the amount of set and rep you should do , from the the start to finish.remember to use your mind.lots of so call bodybuilder are rushing to get big muscle with out understanding the facts about weight training .and the internet full of rubbish .ps next time you see someone in the gym bench-press four twentys on each side of the bar ask them how many set they going to do with the weight ? They will tell you one. Because that there heavy set.lots o people in the gym don't know what is a set look like you see , 5_rep is not a set .sceret mathematics 5.5.5=1- set you see , 5..rep 5..rep 5..rep now you got your set , so 3..5 ...is one set do you understand from a scientific point understood this might be surprising or shocking to you all but not me 'as I said I been weight training from 1978 till now 23.07.2022 .big mistake people are making men and women in the gym training too often, you must give your self time to recover from each work out before going back to the gym. Stop pumping your muscles , work your muscles instead .eat real food stit your ass down in your home and relax and read books and forget the gym untill it is time to go back to the gym for your next workout.and if you are a man you must fuck lotsof woman too , and big sceret you must eat real food after fucking woman replace the energy .the hole human body is all about energy so you must eat real food and as much as you want to eat, just like pussy .now then whatever the mind can receive the mind can achieve.💪🇬🇧
Throwing an idea out there.. could this be related to the percieved level of threath to the body? Training at elongated length, closer to full extencion, might send a stronger signal to the body to adapt because it is "percieved" as higher risk of injury.
That's a very interesting idea. There is some data showing muscle's have higher voluntary activation (an individual can access greater force production from the overall muscle) at longer muscle length contractions, so I don't think it's crazy to suggest this may be for the reasons your suggesting. References: Bampouras et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17013889/ Becker et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11317277/ Kluka et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25083726/ Kubo et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14648124/ Lanza et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28594464/ Douget et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27997698/
Reminds me of how swimming somehow has been shown to stimulate less weight loss versus the same caloric expenditure of walking/jogging. I have suspected that the root cause is some biochemical cascade produced by weight-bearing activity that favors being lighter (downregulating fat storage) whereas swimming is happening while in simulated low gravity, as far as joints can sense. If true at all, it would be likely due to signaling from the spine, hips and lower appendicular joints, since they are the locomotion producers normally. I could go on and, be more clear, etc. but I like your idea of suspecting it to be rooted in a mechanism that would've been more often selected for evolutionarily. I think we're both right and can apply the results while waiting for future studies to possibly get to the cause in our lifetime.
It's about the intensity of effort. Exercises are generally harder in the lengthened position (bottom of bench, squat, curl, romanian deadlift, etc) which is what causes the superior results. So, as long as intensity of effort is high (slow movements, training to failure), then maximjm muscle growth would have been stimulated.
One of the best examples of training in the stretched position is Jason Huh IMO. I was always sceptical and thought he was selling BS, but I have heard other BB mention training in the stretched position and now this video, time to give it a try.
I think you make very interesting points! However, there was one study which found growth at the 25% proximal region of the vastus lateralis was still greater for partial range of motion training leg extensions at long lengths vs partial range of motion leg extensions at shorter lengths : www.researchgate.net/publication/236460608_Muscular_adaptations_and_insulin-like_growth_factor-I_IGF-I_responses_to_resistance_training_are_stretch-mediated So I'm not sure if short length grows the proximal regions more, more research is needed :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy I think one limitation of theese studies is that the excercises shown all train muscles equally on their own. Maybe they should compare also different excercises. For example dumbbells lateral raises and cable lateral raises. Maybe we would have different results, maybe we could find that long lengths training really produce more hypertrophy on distal lengths of a muscle and vice versa.
I though it too, for example I noticed that when I train pecs with a dumbbell press the next day I am sore in distal lengths but when I train them with a cable crossover I am more sore more near to the sternum. Obviously this isn’t a proof ‘cause muscle soreness is not index of muscle growth but it would be worth to consider your idea
This is an interesting topic for sure. Isn't benchpress essentially a partial RoM exercise as far as chest is concerned? As in... you go from a deep stretch but you don't fully squeeze the pecs on the top because you would need to bring your arms together just like you do with cable flys for example. Also, are scapula pullups count as partial RoM pullups at long length? I can be very wrong here, but from my own experience I had some crazy sores in the lats after a few sets of scapula pullups before I could do normal pullups.
As far as I'm concerned full RoM is impossible on a bench press using a Barbell, your body is litterly in the way of the bar way way way before any stretch is happening. My chest doesn't feel any stretch at all unless my arms are behind me. Flys, those stretch. Bench press I only feel in my chest while the bar is litterly on my chest, my triceps take over and push the weight after the first inche or two of motion. But I'm also the freak that started with body weight dips and never did assisted ones except as drop sets on 10+reps.
@@isaarunarom7830 this is exactly why I think DB benchpress is better in some cases. I found that I feel my chest a lot better during an exercise when I do something unilateral, but I also get good pumps from chest dips. I could also always just do any number of dips from the start, now doing it with weight belt for added benefit and it does work well too. BB bench tho... I can lift big numbers but almost never feel anything until the day after lol
You have to be careful training at long length - - it is easier to hurt yourself and have an injury in the stretched position. While chest exercises like heavy stretching bench presses and flies can produce big pecs, they can really damage the shoulder joint. Training biceps with emphasis on stretch very often leads to tendonitis.
At the end of the day, an individual should be able to feel what is working, you need to try to only feel, and therefore completely isolate the relevant muscle, mind to muscle is the most important thing.
If you are not familiar with Jay Schroeder’s ISO-Extreme exercises, it would be interesting for you to look at. They are technically eccentrics, but are working the muscle at their most extreme length for minutes at a time to maximal failure.
This whole study lends itself to Ronnie Coleman using partial reps in the full stretch position, including t bar rows and shrugs. Think it may answer the question on whether or not the back and traps would respond the same way. Ronnie's back and traps were unparalleled.
Well if you fully contract your muscles means that there's no longer tension especially if you're using dumbbells. Also partial contractions will probably make the muscles work harder because it does not use it's full potential but on the stretch part. This will also lead to greater metabolic stress. So I guess you can agree on this studies.
its an interesting trade off with deadlifts. with a a straight leg version, you cannot lift as much, but your hamstrings are stretched to the max. with bent legs, you can use a heavier load, but your hamstrings are shortened. it may be best to alternate.
When I worked at the desk in the gym the last few months in the Marine Corp my Gunnery Sergeant who was huge only did partial reps in the lower part of the exercise.
I wish there was a study where they would compare 2 groups both doing full ROM, but the 1st group as they reach technical failure (basically when they cannot achive a full ROM) they stop, while the other group doing the same but train a bit beyond failure with the partial ROM (because that's all they can do), and tbh i would expect the group that trains beyond failure to actually achive greater hypertrophy, i think even more hypertrophy than a group wich would only do partial ROM.
Mmm That's quite interesting: the only exercise that seemed to have real effet on my pecs is : flys (high reps) (while I'm on the floor). I always found that this exercise looked useless since the upper portion of the movement provides nearly any resistance. But to my surprise: it was the 1st time I felt such burning in my pecs days after.. And more muscle volume! So this theory applies 100% in this case. On the other hand: i would STRONGLY suggest to NOT do leg extension in stretch position. Look at scooby1961 explanation on how it's really bad for the knees (and how in limited short range is good!) (And I had a few other persons confirmed it and good results doing it!) On this matter: I would suggest that if stretched position is really better for quads: then partial squats in the lower position would be more suitable!(vs partial extended leg extension: the mechanic of the knee extension is completely different between those 2 exercises!) Make sense? :)
Interesting! I'm not sure I full agree with leg extensions being bad in the stretched position, maybe for some. But I'm not an expert on injuries either :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy hey tnx for your feedback :) ruclips.net/video/74QB-UQCm88/видео.html This is the video in question! I know there's a lot of controversy on this guy but he has more bodybuilding experience than most of us and his explanation is quite interesting!(and he's an engineer :p) And for myself: I have several years of bodybuilding on and off(still not a big guy but I'm strong :p) and for a few years now: I'm an osteopath! (Canadian) So I have a few (!) notion on the anatomy :p
It seems to me that the main problem in a Sato et al. study was the equalization of intensity between groups, since sets were not performed to muscle failure. Without this, we cannot know exactly what motor unit recruitment was for each group. There is also a question regarding muscle damage, as potentially with training on a long fiber length for the biceps , the damage could be higher PMID: 3370923 , PMID: 11194107 , PMID: 29074710 (correspondingly, there could also be more swelling, which can be erroneously perceived as hypertrophy). Also in my memory there is one study that compared biceps training on short and long fibers for the biceps PMID: 32823490 (they worked to muscle failure in the range of 8-12RM), and there was no difference in hypertrophy ( quote "For biceps brachii thickness, significant increases were observed for both CAB and BAR , without significant difference between them .") .
Damage does decrease overtime. Also, they only trained with 3 sets of 10 reps twice per week for 5 weeks (and likely not to failure). Thus, it can be seriously questioned as to whether swelling would confound anything. Notwithstanding, numerous other studies similarly find long length to be better than short length (and potential mechanistic rationale exist behind this, such as higher mechanical tension). Finally, it's worth noting the Nunes et al. study compared full ROM cable to barbell curls, partial ranges of motions were not utlilized in this study.
@@HouseofHypertrophy yes, Nunes et al. study compared full ROM cable to preacher curls, which in fact is a model that allows to compare training at short and long lengths, since the external resistance profile is different (plus they equated the intensity). "numerous other studies similarly find long length to be better than short length " As far as I know, practically in such studies they don't equate intensity, namely, they do not perform sets to muscle failure, which in principle is a problem that does not allow one to evaluate recruitment at the moment the set is stopped.
so basically your saying that training in your weakest position induces the most hypertrophy. I take it you will have to use signifigantly lighter weights all the time as well for safety. Would this apply to isometric training as well?
Purely based on mechanics, a stretched arm requires more force to bend, than one already at a 30% bend, due to the change in leverage. Raising a flagpole, from the ground, with a rope, is most difficult when it is laying completely flat.
I'm curious to know if the lats are even loaded much at the bottom ROM of rows, because it could just be that the strength curve favours the top ROM. In contrast, the human flag and long lever side planks work one of the lats in a fairly elongated position.
I think this is just because there is much more force required on it in the extended portion for a given weight... Imagine trying to pull in a draw bridge from the lowered portion as opposed to when it's nearly closed and you get the picture. So if they trained to failure on either the tension would be the same, but because they picked the weight based on what they could generate at 45 degrees, this brought them closer to failure in the lengthened range. So if you were training to failure on each i don't think there would be a difference in hypertrophy.
Just do full range of motion until you hit failure, after that do partial reps till you reach failure on that too .Because you will find out that when you can't do full range any more you still can do some half reps.
It's the stretch under load that make the traps grow you don't even need any movement to make them grow look at guy that do Manuel labour carrying stuff and pushing wheel barrows
I can personally attest that training in a stretched position is what finally helped me add some diameter to my calves (I'm not gifted in that area lol). I had been plateaued with seated toe raises, then switched to a stretched variant in the smith machine with a plate under my toes, straight legs, slightly bent over, and emphasis on the lower half of the rom. But n = 1 and not much else was controlled, so take it for what it's worth, nothing more.
gymnast say this, and they are jacked, imagine a gymnast working with the rings moving around arms working while mostly fully stretched.. straightarm work gives big biceps when contracted.
i can tell you, that you are wrong for bent over rows :D partial reps are working exceptional well. even if this is 1 year old. your vids are great dude, keep it up
I wonder if this is the reason why some gymnasts end up with stupid thick biceps - straight arm exercises by default work in partial, stretched ROM since only the long head actually goes through concentric (and at more advanced stage eccentric) phase from about -10 to 50 or so degrees in the shoulder joint leaving a ton of possible contraction on the table. They also often do pelican curls which have an awkward resistance curve and also focus particularly the stretched phase
The ending that's a shame. I can't do a pull up to save my life. But I was thinking if I did a dead hang at long length and slowly try to work myself up over time I would assume from this video that I would eventually gain the muscle to actually do the pull up. I think since it's a fresh month I will give it a go although that won't resolve the issue of making it 90 degrees up the bar and falling short on the shorter length contractions.
Regarding the trapezius muscles on whether or not shrugs stimulate more growth or just hanging heavy weights on the bar or carrying something very heavy is an interesting question. I would offer for your consideration possibly observing power lifters who focus on deadlifting. That is the ultimate extreme with incredibly heavy weights simply hanging and not being Shrugged. But I don't know how you would make the comparison I was saying that just in general when the discussion came up about just letting the weight hang and carrying something heavy I immediately thought of powerlifters deadlifting they must have incredible traps to be able to hold several hundred pounds off their shoulders like that...?
It's not about the length of the muscle: The so-called "long" position, when done w/a preacher curl, puts the forearm in a more horizontal position, ie: more resistance. The "short" position forearm approaches vertical, putting as little as zero stress on the muscle. There are positions the arm that enable the opposite results.
The muscles and more importantly the bicep tendons are definitely in a stretched position in a preacher curl. That stretch is the reason that bodybuilders tear the tendon when weight increases faster that the tendons adjust.
You can try it out and see if it helps! :) There is some concern on dumbbell flies and its shoulder positioning in the lower position (some have shoulder problems from it), I'm not an expert on injuries so I don't know if this applies to all, but perhaps a cable standing variation would be better. Your call!
@@HouseofHypertrophy I think a back support is beneficial. The other option was to use a pec deck, but the stretch seems better with dumbbells due to the resistance curve. Of course if I feel that it destroys my shoulders I will stop.
Do you think this would correlate with gymnastics training and how those athletes have really big biceps as they do a lot of isometric but also straight arm training?
4 sets to failure means every single set is taken to failure. The number of reps you perform depends on what load you're using and however many reps you can achieve until failure hits. For increasing strength on an exercise (one-rep max), low reps (1-5) with heavy weights (85% one-rep max +) are likely the best. You don't need to train to failure to experience optimal strength or hypertrophy adaptations. The current evidence demonstrates training with 3 reps in reserve is probably perfectly fine. For strength, even as much as 5-7 reps in reserve might be viable. Let me know if this answer your questions!
Is it true that in any set it is the last rep( where failure occurs) or the ones just before the last rep that actually stimulate growth, and the initial reps of any set are required just to get to the point of failure and they don't contribute towards hypertrophy by themselves?
It's almost certainly the case that those hard repetitions are more important for stimulating hypertrophy than the easier repetitions, as we know from the research that it's probably likely getting at least 3-4 reps away from failure is needed to optimize growth. Yet, those earlier easy repetitions likely still actually contribute some degree to hypertrophy. I say this as one study (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31895290/) found that training with roughly 14 repetitions AWAY from failure (with a 30% one-rep max load) still built muscle, though not as much as training with failure with that 30% one-rep max load. Thus, we can deduce that those early easy repetitions likely still actually contribute to hypertrophy to some degree, but "most" of your gains are likely going to be a result of those harder repetitions closer to failure (probably especially as you become more trained). Hope this makes sense :)
The streched position indeed favours hypertrophy in my experience if the intensity is appropriate. Oddly enough it's the shortend position wich has the highest EMG readings! But practical experience shows us over and over it's the streched position wich produces the most gains in strength and particularly hypertrophy. Don't use studies! Use real world examples instead! For example: ring gymnasts biceps, olympic weightlifters legs/glutes, calisthenics back, shoulders
I train using an isokenetic machine so I can apply full force over the full range of motion for every rep. Do you have any studies that analyze this technique?
@@HouseofHypertrophy Thank you. I appreciate the reply. I've been recording my reps using a computer program I wrote, so I can analyze my own results. I've always wanted to run a double blind "tournament" of body building: get a bunch of coaches to write down an "algorithm" that they want their subjects to follow for a long duration, like a year or so. Have the participants follow the algorithm, observed independently. Declare a winner in at least two categories: (1) most muscle gained and (2) most efficient gain of muscle (Kgs of muscle per hour of training). I bet you could croud source something like that.
The problem is, Full RoM means not the same activation at the same length for all Muscles. Muscles are not involved all on the same range of motion. Lengthen partials are more Isolation of the Isolation.
Frustrating full ROM group was not included. As an aside, my own N=1 with hamstrings is that seated curls is indeed more effective than lying leg curls. Additionally there is less strain on my damaged lumbar.
Agreed, a full ROM group would have been very helpful. Also, very interesting to hear about your experience with seated curls, sorry to hear about your damaged lumbar!
Historically, the incline curl bench is notorious for tearing biceps because its unnatural resistance angle so I'm surprised it was used for this study.
Now nobody can crack on me saying quarter squats aren't doing anything. I've known this for years it was never about my ego it was about getting results. I still do some short length or full rom on my movements but is always as a high rep finisher with way less weight. Heavy top set is always long length(quarter/half rep).
Are these quarter squats from "ass to grass" to about midway or abit above parallell, and then back down and repeat? I think that would be what is considered long length part rep, where short length(the one usually getting memed on) part rep would be standing up straight and from there only going down a little bit, to substantially above parallell.
People are missing one very important thing. Full range of motion is important not because of hypertrophy, but because your tendons will get shortened, stiffened and painfull overtime. Training at partial range of motion also promotes different strenght levels over the entire motion, and its generally unhealthy. Train to your 100% full range of motion, and stretch afterwards. Please.
The weight is 'heavier' at long length for this exercise. Just do it yourself. With straight arms it's far harder to lift the weight, whereas the short motion is easier - because of the leverage. This whole study is basic common sense and only applies to these specific exercises.
If you train at full length of motion, are you not also passing through the short length? My suggestion is that you do not rob the short length. Momentum must be slow enough to engage your fast twitch muscle by rep #2 . Adjust the resistance until you fail by rep #7 then leave it alone! You have caused stimulus. Eat and rest repete in 7 days.
all this is speculation. i think diet, consistency and stress levels have a direct bearing on any training, even in the fitness park, with your bodyweight alone.
Dont think it makes much difference whether you train long- or short-length. At the end of the day its still about how close to failure you go. Why did they not test this for normal dumbell-curls? Problem with the preacher curl is that it is biased towards the long-length, since the maximum resistance is at the bottom of the exercise. The short-length group trained from 80° to 130°, which has like the lowest resistance during the whole range of motion since you are not really working against gravity. So i can imagine that the 10 reps were incredibly easy for the short-length group, which means that they probably didnt reach failure as hard as the long-length group. That could've explained the differences in gains.
I see what you mean with the preacher curls, but I still think it does make a difference. With many of the studies, I agree it can be difficult to compare to precise proximity to failures between groups, as the equate relative intensity. It would be better if subjects in all groups just trained to failure. Yet, there's logic to believe exercises that attain greater stretch of a muscle produce more hypertrophy, maybe by way of producing greater "mechanical tension". More precisely, acheving a stretch enables passive tension production, thus enhancing overall tension. There's also some evidence that muscles may be able to achieve greater voluntary activation (more force from the fibers) at long muscle lengths. I covered these concepts and the associated research in a video on this channel called "Full Range of Motion Is NOT Optimal For Building Muscle (New Study)"
It's not a practical way to train, for the simple fact that when you train in a partial range of motion all the time, you set yourself up for injury because you're not strengthening the muscle in a portion of the full ROM. My uncle tore his bicep training that way; muscle and tendon tears are more common in BBers who train partial ROM than in those that train full ROM. That's also why it's a dumb idea to stop at shoulder height when doing front raises and laterals. Also, you can get the same effect by doing 30+ reps full ROM to failure due to increased muscle protein synthesis and prolonged peaks of muscle protein synthesis. You need a minimum of 60 seconds TUT to fully switch over to the glycolytic pathway, hence 30 strict form reps at minimum to maximize anabolism.
@@RJ-is9ko I used to, but I got injured doing that. Why do you think pro bodybuilders get injured so much? Partial reps, heavier weights, explosive lifting that increases load, momentum-increased load, plus drugs that accelerate muscle growth but don't accelerate connective tissue growth is a recipe for strains, sprains, pulls, and tears. Even without the drugs you can get those injuries from lifting like that. People train like it's a race because they get overenthusiastic. My father did that, started doing partials on bench press in an attempt to increase the weight progression faster, bumped up to 300 pounds before he was ready and tore his rotator cuff. He had to get surgery and was never the same after that. The less you expose yourself to injury risk, the better. That's why I train the way I do. I've been training since 1983 and I've made every rookie mistake in the book; I'm prone to lumbar sprains because of it and have adhesions in my right deltoid. Trust me, this isn't the way. Slow and steady wins the race.
@@PrometheusLux Good example, assuming that's all true about Mike. Full ROM and strict form keep you from getting ahead of yourself. You can lift heavier weights doing partials, but then you're exceeding your actual loading capacity. It's like weighing 300 pounds and jumping up and down on a weight bench that has a 300 pound capacity, or exercising on it with weights that put your total weight over the capacity of the bench. Eventually, it's going to break.
You do really good research and your videos have really good diagrams but you are so incredibly difficult to follow and understand what the way that you read things I don't mean this to be rude I just mean this as other people might be having that same issue where you make too many pauses or draw on too much. I am only saying this because I think if you worked on your speech you would be significantly more popular or if you summarized a little bit better as you tend to go back to the same point numerous times which also is confusing.
Hey all, if you think the video is worthy, leaving a like, comment, or sharing it with others can likely help out the channel a lot. Thank you!
0:00 Intro
0:40 Part I: Sato et al.
4:05 Part II: Full Range of Motion?
7:05 Part III: Other Data
9:23 Part IV: Regional Hypertrophy
10:06 Part V: Some Considerations
11:38 Part VI: Takeaways
@House of Hypertrophy thanks, great stuff! Did I understand the research did not measure muscle size increases in more proximal muscles regions (
Interesting....but with preacher curls, only the bottom half of the exercise is worth doing - the top half is gravity assisted. Did they take this into account?
It really shows the weaknesses in studies. Some of those exercises like the bicep curls or the leg extensions, there's not going to be a lot of resistance in the second half of the movement no matter what weight you're dealing with. In the case of the DB curl, with gravity pointing down, there's not a lot the bicep has to fight against to move the weight 3-4 inches closer to your body. A lot of the weight will be borne by the forearm bones. You really need resistance that's perpendicular. A better comparison would have been to pull against a resistance cable that is parallel (or thereabouts) to the floor.
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe this could be tested using machines so that you can get resistance at the top
So can I train my bic with hands up grip on bar ( rower machine)?
And expect it to be succesfull?
This study has been done with multiple mucle groups and the stretched position causes the most muscle growth even over full range of motion the studie he is using didnt donthat but its been proven multiple times with multiple body parts and pieces of equipment that the mucle being trained in a stretched position gets the most growth
So just do some extra half rep pumps at the end of a set like old school bodybuilders used to do to get to failure. Just watch any leg exercise from Tom Platz. You’ll get the idea quickly; )
@@itstime4crusade So just do some extra half rep pumps at the end of a set like old school bodybuilders used to do to get to failure. Just watch any leg exercise from Tom Platz. You’ll get the idea quickly; )
I watched Jay Cutler training many years ago and I noticed this is how he trains.
In the stretched portion of a muscle, and pushing through 1/3rd to half way up a movement. Similar to Arnold, if you watch how Arnold bench pressed, he would only move the weight on bench press 1/3rd of the way up.
I started training like this and this is where I started seeing most of my gains, and it's how I will always train unless there's an injury that prohibits the fully stretched position.
Very interesting to hear, thank you for sharing! :)
No joke. I actually just commented the same. I saw Jay Cutler in a video doing this on a hammer press so I did that same thing at the gym the next day. I can bench 260 1rm so I'm still mostly a beginner, but damn those half reps burn the center of my chest like a mofo.
I’m confused to you mean he lowers the bar 1/3 and then fully stretched up or he fully lowers the bar then only up 1/3 of the ways.
You said you’ll always train like this unless an injury prohibits fully stretching it.
That part confused me.
@@vinyvinycocopuffpassittomenow What Jay Cutler is doing is starting the rep all the way down low, where the chest is most stretched out, and only pushing it up halfway or even less. He's not locking it out.
This legitimately works the chest way faster and more intensity than going full lockout.
Doing reps with the muscle in a stretched position seems to stimulate more hypertrophy but only as long as you're going hard and taking it near fail.
@@RedfishCarolina okay thank you. Makes more sense now. I envisioned the opposite at the top of the rep.
Longest Range Training is all I do now, and have done for over a year. 1/3 reps are the most significant addition I have ever made to my training! For lats, pulldows JUST PULLING WITH THE LATS does a thorough job. Best of all, 1/3 seated laterals has taken mine, and my trainees, medial delts to a whole new realm. And we have a combined experience of around a century!
explain yourself
I started doing single arm lat pulldowns... you can get your arm way up over your head and a massive stretch in the back. Has totally blown my lats up.
Interesting, and awesome to hear!
bruh just do single arm pull ups or chin ups its also much more functional.
@@quantashonjamaldigglerbury4934 thats also very hard to do and you can potentially injure yourself
@@quantashonjamaldigglerbury4934single arm pull up is far, far, far harder than a pull down
Hey bro, great vid but it's incorrect to use °C when showing angles; that is the notation for temperature in degrees Celsius. For angles u just need the degrees symbol, °.
Damn, I can't believe I did not spot this, haha. That's wild, I guess my brain just automatically types the C. Anyway, thank you for letting me know, hopefully I'll be able to spot and correct myself anytime I may make this mistake in the future :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy haha no worries bro
Bruh i didn’t even notice
He definitely knows that. He must have been in a hurry.
@@HouseofHypertrophy bro, how did you fuck that up? I’d expect that from an Yank. But you’re a Limey!
Genuinely the best bodybuilding channel there is.
That's very kind of you :)
Do a bunch of half-rep bench press reps, be sure to get a good stretch at the bottom of the rep. Go to fail, 8-15 rep range. You'll feel a burn/shred down the center of your chest like you've never felt yet.
That was a great integration and take-away of the topic :)
I think you could actually also add the triceps (study by Goto et al., 2019) as well
Moreover, I think Menno Henselmans also theorized in his take-away on stretch-mediated hypertrophy that strength gains, on the other hand, might be more range-of-motion specific. While hypertrophy, indeed, just needs "enough stretch".
Thanks for shedding more light on this promising topic. Love that, and hopefully, there will be more clarification on this topic very soon
Thank you my friend! I agree with Menno's take on strength gains, they like are ROM specific. And yep, I truly hope more research emerges in this area!
Also, I guess the Goto et al. study could have been mentioned :)
Another amazing video, sir! You're the hero we need, not the one we deserve...or however that saying goes haha
Thank you, I appreciate you!
Another great video. 👌👏
I've been seeing a lot of videos floating around talking about gymnasts' outstanding Biceps development & straight arm strength.
The rings basically involve the biceps being in the stretched position with a sh*t ton of mechanical tension.
Definitely something to be worked into gradually though, because the biceps are quite vulnerable in this position.
Thank you, and that's a great point regarding gymnasts, I have not thought about that before! :)
My 2 cents on the leg extension experiment: most leg extension machines provide *too much* resistance in the shortened range, even the ones with variable cams supposedly designed to match the resistance curve of the machine to the strength curve of quadriceps.
This means that a trainee using a leg extension with a full ROM may be limited in how much stimulus they can provide in the lengthened range by the fatigue created in the weaker/shortened range.
So, in this specific scenario, one may be missing out on the potentially superior hypertrophy stimulus that occurs in the lengthened range.
This is possibly why the lengthened group beat out the full ROM group despite the fact the full ROM group also trained in the lengthened range, but if that is the case, the findings of this single study may not necessarily be applicable to other exercises, where such an issue doesn't exist.
@@blackphoenix8932 same as what i was thinking, and the biceps in the preacher curl is at a huge mechanical disadvantage in the lengthened position and the same is true for the hamstrings.
This video reminds me of a tiktok i saw a while back where someone was telling ppl to do lateral raises w heavy weights that werent able to do the full ROM. not really sure what the reason was but if i remember correctly it engaged more of the side delt than the rear delt or the other way around or something of that sort. Either way very interesting
@@HouseofHypertrophy Coach Sommer said in an interview, that his gymnasts do NO direct biceps work. Its ALL from straight arm work.
Another beautiful video!
Nice as always.
Thank you my friend!
Great channel. You deserve more views
Thank you my friend, that's very kind of you!
The headless model you have displaying the different muscle groups is goals
Haha :)
Great video! Regarding long muscle length training for the lats, the pullover machine would probably be a better comparison instead of the row. I remember Yates talking about how it was one of his favorites due to it's ability to isolate the lats through a full ROM.
That's a solid point! :)
Or how about a fkn PULLUP? Add weight if too easy.
Not surprizing that the 'long length' out performed the short length as 'early phase loading' of an exercise is when the muscle contraction is strongest and therefore more intense. 💪
i thought so too
We're weaker in the short length portion but the muscle tears are happening predominantly in the long length portion of the lift.
@@nvmffs Muscle tears are not what build muscle. He has assessed this in other videos
@@coryaw95 No? Can you sum it up for me then? What builds muscle if not muscle tears?
@@nvmffs Either he's typing one very long answer or he has none.
Reverse nordics grew my quads like nothing else. I can personally attribute that working in longer muscle lengths >> shorter lengths
Reverse nordic curls are indeed awesome!
yes i agree best quad growth ever with reverse nordics but i train them from stretched position (close to the ground) to about half way up then down again works like a dream and awsome pump you can also face away from a low pulley and attach to a belt for increased resistance
I've never heard of Reverse Nordics before.
Note: As the angle of the curl decreases from the starting point of 90 degrees towards 45 degrees the load that the bicep experiences also decreases. Conversely, starting the curl at full extension (180 degrees) gradually increases the load that the muscle experiences until we hit 90 degrees.
Yep
This video helped me because I got some much needed sleep trying to watch it.
Interesting. perhaps this is why the old standby "21 Curls" seem to work so well. You get 7 reps long, 7 short and 7 full. Best of everything
With the back and traps not being affected as much with certain movements I can agree with, but for specific movements. Farmers walks light up my traps and neck like no other and I feel like deadlifts, which the back is mostly stationary acting as a stabilizer AND at a longer length, made parts of my back a bit thicker and i've heard a few people agree with me on that. Dorian Yates had a rather shorter range of motion for his rows where he was mostly upright and he had a monstrous back, at the same time I can't say i've ever seen anyone experienced have a huge back off of low range of motion pullups EXCEPT for the case of beginners or people with weaker backs, who are simply doing the range of motion they are capable of until they grow enough to do a full range pullup. Very cool video, need more studies covering this for sure and maybe not just for hypertrophy, maybe they could watch the effects it has on strength as well. Guys like Clarence Kennedy squat super deep and have a very strong squat and then there's guys like John Haack who also has a monstrous squat, but cuts the squat off at parallel. Could explain the success of Tom Platz, since he was big on range of motion and did a lot of partials in exercises like leg extensions to failure, but the failure was at the longest muscle length range. Gonna have to sub and wait and see
Thank you dude, also really great and interesting points! Thank you for your awesome comment :)
Have you seen the range of motion for the Nautilus pullover? It starts with the elbows overhead and end with elbows by your sides. He had other exercises than the row that stretched his back
For the traps I think maybe one could try the shrug or whatever movement with a tilt towards the opposite (slightly leaning to the right side if training the left traps)? Just a thought.
The lats, I've been training with a pulldown machine and thanks to one of your previous videos on this topic I make sure I'm fully stretched in the lats when the bar is up. And I've seen significant progress since.
Great video!
Thank you for your kind words, they are really nice to read!
That's an interesting idea with regards to tilting towards one side, it could work! but I'm not sure how practical it would be especially with heavier loads :)
Not sure about the trap analogy Would love to see a study done on farmer's carry vs shrugs.
I'm starting to believe that extremely heavy load isometric stretching is very beneficial to muscle growth.
e.g. carrying heavy objects conditions the body to get better at doing it lol.
This kind of study always brings me back to the study done on the (poor) birds with weights strapped to their wings and unable to lift, the constant weight unable to lift, and the constant trying to do so.
I think that's actually a great point with farmer carries, they would technically load the traps under stretch more than shurgs, and maybe there more hypertrophic? Interesting, would love to see future research on it :)
The hypertrophy community owes a lot to these birds, numerous (extereme) strething studies have been done on them :(
Whats the point of Farmers carry? If you really wan that weighted stretch, you can simply stand still. You can even use straps and use as much load as your back can handle if you truly want to benefit from the stretch or something like powershrug, the pressure while decending will be very high. Farmers carry is extremely bad muscle building exercise. Only beneficial for core and grip strength.
@@joojotin The traps also work to stabilize the back muscles, when you are moving you require more stability and when you are moving while carrying heavy weights that are also rocking as you're moving means your traps are working overtime.
@@hiz24airness yeah true, but you could use double the weight with straps and maybe bounce around or something 😂
@@joojotin LOL. This is true, but i feel like we just skip to a rack pull at that point. :D
Great video, great animations!
Thank you for the kind words!
Sounds like this is in favor of capping off sets with partials after failure. Get both the benefits of full rom and long length training. Good info thanks for the vid
That could be a really great way to incorportate this, thank YOU for checking out the video :)
Algorithm comment! You deserve it, sir!
Thank you my friend :)
So just do some extra half rep pumps at the end of a set like old school bodybuilders used to do to get to failure. Just watch any leg exercise from Tom Platz. You’ll get the idea quickly ; ) Thanks for the observational studies. Always good to understand why something works better.
Thanks dude, just a note, the studies in here would be considered randomized control trials, not observational, but that's me being picky :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy It's all good! I tried this half reps in the long range and really enjoyed challenging myself to get more in. Looking forward to getting more results out of them too ; )
with regards to traps, you can check a guy called alphadestiny who preaches the gospel of weighted stretch. Basically huge load, huge stretch, and basically partial reps since it's so heavy and he swears by the gains. You can check his before and after pics. He's also natural.
So at least for traps I'd say this concept likely works too. I think training preacher curls in this way has the highest instance of bicep tears tho so i maybe I'd do decline curls or something to induce a stretch in biceps instead.
Very interesting, thank you for sharing!
I believe its better to train back and traps at longer muscle lenghts full rom and partials. They are muscles afterall. It might not work with all exercies tho. Barbell rows and pullups for example are hardest at the contracted position so the resistance profile doesnt match the profile of our muscles, if it did like with some machines, im sure its works the same way as other muscles.
True! Hopefully future research helps us out!
Entonces tu recomiendarias hacer remo con barra o dominadas en un rango parcial?
@@GabrielRamirez-mw1wj huh?
Hey I been weight training from 1978 right up 23.07.2022 I was in the gym yesterday .I will tell you a sceret train you muscle , useing full range of movements with all muscle groups don't do those half way movement .yes I been a bodybuilder yes I win many of those EFBB bodybuilding competition and become British champion many times over and over I see them come and go I am still training heavy .but only because I made my self strong in the body and mind .don't get me rong I was a skinny kid but I build my self up over time .I work my way true all type of weight training .as I said I was a skinny kid so l started of with light weight , as time goes by and years .I then move into useing medium weight training and as time goes by and I got stronger I then started lifting heavy weights , yes I still use full range of movement and the is with all muscle groups .I never do drugs I stay drug free , 110% natural I am now age 59 and I still have big muscles all round .big mistake people made the want it over night so they take the short cut drugs , sad fact they ended up with now muscle .I love natural food keep it simple eat your meat carnivores diet , because meat build meat .in other word meat build muscle , you will get all the amino-acid from beef lamb chicken Turkey salmon soybean .eat papaya and pineapple drink lots of water like the animals you eat.sceret if you really train hard in the gym how many exercises you think you could do in one workout on one body part huge Question you have to think about ?. I tell you a sceret stick yo the basics exercises .sceret just bench-press alone can give you a huge chest if you do it right , in one workout and you will to do the work , and full range of movement .sceret The size of your feet is the amount of set and rep you should do , from the the start to finish.remember to use your mind.lots of so call bodybuilder are rushing to get big muscle with out understanding the facts about weight training .and the internet full of rubbish .ps next time you see someone in the gym bench-press four twentys on each side of the bar ask them how many set they going to do with the weight ? They will tell you one. Because that there heavy set.lots o people in the gym don't know what is a set look like you see , 5_rep is not a set .sceret mathematics 5.5.5=1- set you see , 5..rep 5..rep 5..rep now you got your set , so 3..5 ...is one set do you understand from a scientific point understood this might be surprising or shocking to you all but not me 'as I said I been weight training from 1978 till now 23.07.2022 .big mistake people are making men and women in the gym training too often, you must give your self time to recover from each work out before going back to the gym. Stop pumping your muscles , work your muscles instead .eat real food stit your ass down in your home and relax and read books and forget the gym untill it is time to go back to the gym for your next workout.and if you are a man you must fuck lotsof woman too , and big sceret you must eat real food after fucking woman replace the energy .the hole human body is all about energy so you must eat real food and as much as you want to eat, just like pussy .now then whatever the mind can receive the mind can achieve.💪🇬🇧
Thanks for the Information
No problem, thank you for your support :)
Throwing an idea out there.. could this be related to the percieved level of threath to the body? Training at elongated length, closer to full extencion, might send a stronger signal to the body to adapt because it is "percieved" as higher risk of injury.
That's a very interesting idea. There is some data showing muscle's have higher voluntary activation (an individual can access greater force production from the overall muscle) at longer muscle length contractions, so I don't think it's crazy to suggest this may be for the reasons your suggesting.
References:
Bampouras et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17013889/
Becker et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11317277/
Kluka et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25083726/
Kubo et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14648124/
Lanza et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28594464/
Douget et al. - pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27997698/
Reminds me of how swimming somehow has been shown to stimulate less weight loss versus the same caloric expenditure of walking/jogging. I have suspected that the root cause is some biochemical cascade produced by weight-bearing activity that favors being lighter (downregulating fat storage) whereas swimming is happening while in simulated low gravity, as far as joints can sense.
If true at all, it would be likely due to signaling from the spine, hips and lower appendicular joints, since they are the locomotion producers normally.
I could go on and, be more clear, etc. but I like your idea of suspecting it to be rooted in a mechanism that would've been more often selected for evolutionarily. I think we're both right and can apply the results while waiting for future studies to possibly get to the cause in our lifetime.
@@HouseofHypertrophy
THANKS!! I'll check them out.
@@HouseofHypertrophy What exactly is muscle contraction length for the chest? Is it at the start or end of the movement?
Check out Jason Gallant. He does partial for bent over rows and has a world class back.
It's about the intensity of effort. Exercises are generally harder in the lengthened position (bottom of bench, squat, curl, romanian deadlift, etc) which is what causes the superior results. So, as long as intensity of effort is high (slow movements, training to failure), then maximjm muscle growth would have been stimulated.
One of the best examples of training in the stretched position is Jason Huh IMO. I was always sceptical and thought he was selling BS, but I have heard other BB mention training in the stretched position and now this video, time to give it a try.
Awesome :)
Imbalance leads to injury in the long term. Im full rom for life.
@House of Hypertrophy thanks, great stuff! Did I understand the research did not measure muscle size increases in more proximal muscles regions (
I think you make very interesting points! However, there was one study which found growth at the 25% proximal region of the vastus lateralis was still greater for partial range of motion training leg extensions at long lengths vs partial range of motion leg extensions at shorter lengths : www.researchgate.net/publication/236460608_Muscular_adaptations_and_insulin-like_growth_factor-I_IGF-I_responses_to_resistance_training_are_stretch-mediated
So I'm not sure if short length grows the proximal regions more, more research is needed :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy I think one limitation of theese studies is that the excercises shown all train muscles equally on their own. Maybe they should compare also different excercises. For example dumbbells lateral raises and cable lateral raises. Maybe we would have different results, maybe we could find that long lengths training really produce more hypertrophy on distal lengths of a muscle and vice versa.
I though it too, for example I noticed that when I train pecs with a dumbbell press the next day I am sore in distal lengths but when I train them with a cable crossover I am more sore more near to the sternum. Obviously this isn’t a proof ‘cause muscle soreness is not index of muscle growth but it would be worth to consider your idea
I use dumbbells for the lower biceps... resistance band for the upper.
This is an interesting topic for sure. Isn't benchpress essentially a partial RoM exercise as far as chest is concerned? As in... you go from a deep stretch but you don't fully squeeze the pecs on the top because you would need to bring your arms together just like you do with cable flys for example. Also, are scapula pullups count as partial RoM pullups at long length? I can be very wrong here, but from my own experience I had some crazy sores in the lats after a few sets of scapula pullups before I could do normal pullups.
As far as I'm concerned full RoM is impossible on a bench press using a Barbell, your body is litterly in the way of the bar way way way before any stretch is happening. My chest doesn't feel any stretch at all unless my arms are behind me. Flys, those stretch. Bench press I only feel in my chest while the bar is litterly on my chest, my triceps take over and push the weight after the first inche or two of motion. But I'm also the freak that started with body weight dips and never did assisted ones except as drop sets on 10+reps.
@@isaarunarom7830 this is exactly why I think DB benchpress is better in some cases. I found that I feel my chest a lot better during an exercise when I do something unilateral, but I also get good pumps from chest dips. I could also always just do any number of dips from the start, now doing it with weight belt for added benefit and it does work well too. BB bench tho... I can lift big numbers but almost never feel anything until the day after lol
You have to be careful training at long length - - it is easier to hurt yourself and have an injury in the stretched position. While chest exercises like heavy stretching bench presses and flies can produce big pecs, they can really damage the shoulder joint. Training biceps with emphasis on stretch very often leads to tendonitis.
At the end of the day, an individual should be able to feel what is working, you need to try to only feel, and therefore completely isolate the relevant muscle, mind to muscle is the most important thing.
I followed some Tony Pearson videos, he does a partial roms and I've already seen a change for me
If you are not familiar with Jay Schroeder’s ISO-Extreme exercises, it would be interesting for you to look at. They are technically eccentrics, but are working the muscle at their most extreme length for minutes at a time to maximal failure.
This whole study lends itself to Ronnie Coleman using partial reps in the full stretch position, including t bar rows and shrugs. Think it may answer the question on whether or not the back and traps would respond the same way. Ronnie's back and traps were unparalleled.
Great thought, thank you!
13:20 propably only crossjoint muscles will benefit from this
Well if you fully contract your muscles means that there's no longer tension especially if you're using dumbbells. Also partial contractions will probably make the muscles work harder because it does not use it's full potential but on the stretch part. This will also lead to greater metabolic stress. So I guess you can agree on this studies.
Cable pull overs put a significant stretch on the lats.
Also the way Arnold does cable rows puts a good stretch on the lats.
Great point!
its an interesting trade off with deadlifts. with a a straight leg version, you cannot lift as much, but your hamstrings are stretched to the max. with bent legs, you can use a heavier load, but your hamstrings are shortened. it may be best to alternate.
I'll make it easy for you
All of them are correct
Every real bodybuilder does this
It's about intensity regardless of what your doing
When I worked at the desk in the gym the last few months in the Marine Corp my Gunnery Sergeant who was huge only did partial reps in the lower part of the exercise.
I was military as well and noticed this. You mean to say in push ups he only did the bottom half. And pull ups the top half? Correct?
No.Weight lifting.
Very interesting!
Very!
I wish there was a study where they would compare 2 groups both doing full ROM, but the 1st group as they reach technical failure (basically when they cannot achive a full ROM) they stop, while the other group doing the same but train a bit beyond failure with the partial ROM (because that's all they can do), and tbh i would expect the group that trains beyond failure to actually achive greater hypertrophy, i think even more hypertrophy than a group wich would only do partial ROM.
Mmm
That's quite interesting: the only exercise that seemed to have real effet on my pecs is : flys (high reps) (while I'm on the floor).
I always found that this exercise looked useless since the upper portion of the movement provides nearly any resistance.
But to my surprise: it was the 1st time I felt such burning in my pecs days after.. And more muscle volume!
So this theory applies 100% in this case.
On the other hand: i would STRONGLY suggest to NOT do leg extension in stretch position.
Look at scooby1961 explanation on how it's really bad for the knees (and how in limited short range is good!)
(And I had a few other persons confirmed it and good results doing it!)
On this matter: I would suggest that if stretched position is really better for quads: then partial squats in the lower position would be more suitable!(vs partial extended leg extension: the mechanic of the knee extension is completely different between those 2 exercises!)
Make sense?
:)
Interesting! I'm not sure I full agree with leg extensions being bad in the stretched position, maybe for some. But I'm not an expert on injuries either :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy hey tnx for your feedback :)
ruclips.net/video/74QB-UQCm88/видео.html
This is the video in question!
I know there's a lot of controversy on this guy but he has more bodybuilding experience than most of us and his explanation is quite interesting!(and he's an engineer :p)
And for myself: I have several years of bodybuilding on and off(still not a big guy but I'm strong :p) and for a few years now: I'm an osteopath! (Canadian)
So I have a few (!) notion on the anatomy :p
It seems to me that the main problem in a Sato et al. study was the equalization of intensity between groups, since sets were not performed to muscle failure. Without this, we cannot know exactly what motor unit recruitment was for each group. There is also a question regarding muscle damage, as potentially with training on a long fiber length for the biceps , the damage could be higher PMID: 3370923 , PMID: 11194107 , PMID: 29074710 (correspondingly, there could also be more swelling, which can be erroneously perceived as hypertrophy). Also in my memory there is one study that compared biceps training on short and long fibers for the biceps PMID: 32823490 (they worked to muscle failure in the range of 8-12RM), and there was no difference in hypertrophy ( quote "For biceps brachii thickness, significant increases were observed for both CAB and BAR , without significant difference between them .") .
Damage does decrease overtime. Also, they only trained with 3 sets of 10 reps twice per week for 5 weeks (and likely not to failure). Thus, it can be seriously questioned as to whether swelling would confound anything. Notwithstanding, numerous other studies similarly find long length to be better than short length (and potential mechanistic rationale exist behind this, such as higher mechanical tension). Finally, it's worth noting the Nunes et al. study compared full ROM cable to barbell curls, partial ranges of motions were not utlilized in this study.
@@HouseofHypertrophy yes, Nunes et al. study compared full ROM cable to preacher curls, which in fact is a model that allows to compare training at short and long lengths, since the external resistance profile is different (plus they equated the intensity). "numerous other studies similarly find long length to be better than short length " As far as I know, practically in such studies they don't equate intensity, namely, they do not perform sets to muscle failure, which in principle is a problem that does not allow one to evaluate recruitment at the moment the set is stopped.
Thanks for these videos! Is there any reasonable theoretical rationale behind why stretched positions would generate more hypertrophy?
I allude to some potential reasons at the 10 min mark in this video ruclips.net/video/VCN95VtHvs4/видео.html :)
so basically your saying that training in your weakest position induces the most hypertrophy. I take it you will have to use signifigantly lighter weights all the time as well for safety. Would this apply to isometric training as well?
Yeah, it likely applies to isometric training, there's research on this :)
Purely based on mechanics, a stretched arm requires more force to bend, than one already at a 30% bend, due to the change in leverage. Raising a flagpole, from the ground, with a rope, is most difficult when it is laying completely flat.
But they corrected for this since loads were specifically chosen relative to the movement
I'm curious to know if the lats are even loaded much at the bottom ROM of rows, because it could just be that the strength curve favours the top ROM.
In contrast, the human flag and long lever side planks work one of the lats in a fairly elongated position.
Those are great points!
I do one armed ring rows and can get a great stretch on them.
It seems traps grow best under a loaded stretch with excerises like farmer's walks and rack pulls.
Potentially!
I think this is just because there is much more force required on it in the extended portion for a given weight... Imagine trying to pull in a draw bridge from the lowered portion as opposed to when it's nearly closed and you get the picture. So if they trained to failure on either the tension would be the same, but because they picked the weight based on what they could generate at 45 degrees, this brought them closer to failure in the lengthened range. So if you were training to failure on each i don't think there would be a difference in hypertrophy.
Just do full range of motion until you hit failure, after that do partial reps till you reach failure on that too .Because you will find out that when you can't do full range any more you still can do some half reps.
It's the stretch under load that make the traps grow you don't even need any movement to make them grow look at guy that do Manuel labour carrying stuff and pushing wheel barrows
Do you think this Long length approach can be used for calves too? Or is the top portion squeeze important
There's no research I'm aware of looking at it, so it's hard to say :(
I can personally attest that training in a stretched position is what finally helped me add some diameter to my calves (I'm not gifted in that area lol).
I had been plateaued with seated toe raises, then switched to a stretched variant in the smith machine with a plate under my toes, straight legs, slightly bent over, and emphasis on the lower half of the rom.
But n = 1 and not much else was controlled, so take it for what it's worth, nothing more.
gymnast say this, and they are jacked, imagine a gymnast working with the rings moving around arms working while mostly fully stretched.. straightarm work gives big biceps when contracted.
i can tell you, that you are wrong for bent over rows :D partial reps are working exceptional well. even if this is 1 year old. your vids are great dude, keep it up
I could very well be wrong with that, haha :)
I wonder if this is the reason why some gymnasts end up with stupid thick biceps - straight arm exercises by default work in partial, stretched ROM since only the long head actually goes through concentric (and at more advanced stage eccentric) phase from about -10 to 50 or so degrees in the shoulder joint leaving a ton of possible contraction on the table.
They also often do pelican curls which have an awkward resistance curve and also focus particularly the stretched phase
That's a great observation my friend!
The ending that's a shame. I can't do a pull up to save my life. But I was thinking if I did a dead hang at long length and slowly try to work myself up over time I would assume from this video that I would eventually gain the muscle to actually do the pull up. I think since it's a fresh month I will give it a go although that won't resolve the issue of making it 90 degrees up the bar and falling short on the shorter length contractions.
Do assisted pullups
Regarding the trapezius muscles on whether or not shrugs stimulate more growth or just hanging heavy weights on the bar or carrying something very heavy is an interesting question. I would offer for your consideration possibly observing power lifters who focus on deadlifting. That is the ultimate extreme with incredibly heavy weights simply hanging and not being Shrugged. But I don't know how you would make the comparison I was saying that just in general when the discussion came up about just letting the weight hang and carrying something heavy I immediately thought of powerlifters deadlifting they must have incredible traps to be able to hold several hundred pounds off their shoulders like that...?
Interesting point, it's possible that deadlifts itself produce great trap growth purely through stretch based :)
Nice vid! But….where’s Joel Seedman at ??😂
Haha :)
It's not about the length of the muscle: The so-called "long" position, when done w/a preacher curl, puts the forearm in a more horizontal position, ie: more resistance. The "short" position forearm approaches vertical, putting as little as zero stress on the muscle. There are positions the arm that enable the opposite results.
The muscles and more importantly the bicep tendons are definitely in a stretched position in a preacher curl. That stretch is the reason that bodybuilders tear the tendon when weight increases faster that the tendons adjust.
knowledge is hypertrophy
This is exactly how ronnie Coleman trained...partial reps focused on the long stretch
I wonder if the control group didn’t train because it was challenging
I have a lagging chest (genetics for pecs suck ass). Should I try doing partial dumbbell flies based on the information from this video?
You can try it out and see if it helps! :) There is some concern on dumbbell flies and its shoulder positioning in the lower position (some have shoulder problems from it), I'm not an expert on injuries so I don't know if this applies to all, but perhaps a cable standing variation would be better. Your call!
@@HouseofHypertrophy I think a back support is beneficial. The other option was to use a pec deck, but the stretch seems better with dumbbells due to the resistance curve. Of course if I feel that it destroys my shoulders I will stop.
Do you think this would correlate with gymnastics training and how those athletes have really big biceps as they do a lot of isometric but also straight arm training?
Possibly!
I don’t get it..how does a seated leg curl stretch hamstrings more than a lying leg curl?
hi sit,how to do 4 sets to failure?,is it training to failure only at the last set?,what about the reps in another sets?
especially for strength?,how much reps i should do in another sets?
4 sets to failure means every single set is taken to failure. The number of reps you perform depends on what load you're using and however many reps you can achieve until failure hits.
For increasing strength on an exercise (one-rep max), low reps (1-5) with heavy weights (85% one-rep max +) are likely the best.
You don't need to train to failure to experience optimal strength or hypertrophy adaptations. The current evidence demonstrates training with 3 reps in reserve is probably perfectly fine. For strength, even as much as 5-7 reps in reserve might be viable.
Let me know if this answer your questions!
@@HouseofHypertrophy *sir
typo
@@HouseofHypertrophy ok ,it helps
Is it true that in any set it is the last rep( where failure occurs) or the ones just before the last rep that actually stimulate growth, and the initial reps of any set are required just to get to the point of failure and they don't contribute towards hypertrophy by themselves?
It's almost certainly the case that those hard repetitions are more important for stimulating hypertrophy than the easier repetitions, as we know from the research that it's probably likely getting at least 3-4 reps away from failure is needed to optimize growth.
Yet, those earlier easy repetitions likely still actually contribute some degree to hypertrophy. I say this as one study (pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31895290/) found that training with roughly 14 repetitions AWAY from failure (with a 30% one-rep max load) still built muscle, though not as much as training with failure with that 30% one-rep max load. Thus, we can deduce that those early easy repetitions likely still actually contribute to hypertrophy to some degree, but "most" of your gains are likely going to be a result of those harder repetitions closer to failure (probably especially as you become more trained).
Hope this makes sense :)
The streched position indeed favours hypertrophy in my experience if the intensity is appropriate.
Oddly enough it's the shortend position wich has the highest EMG readings!
But practical experience shows us over and over it's the streched position wich produces the most gains in strength and particularly hypertrophy.
Don't use studies! Use real world examples instead! For example: ring gymnasts biceps, olympic weightlifters legs/glutes, calisthenics back, shoulders
What about nutrition and rest? Were those monitored?
I train using an isokenetic machine so I can apply full force over the full range of motion for every rep. Do you have any studies that analyze this technique?
I believe there are studies on it, it's not something I've fully looked into yet. But I do plan on making videos on once I explore the research :)
@@HouseofHypertrophy Thank you. I appreciate the reply.
I've been recording my reps using a computer program I wrote, so I can analyze my own results.
I've always wanted to run a double blind "tournament" of body building: get a bunch of coaches to write down an "algorithm" that they want their subjects to follow for a long duration, like a year or so. Have the participants follow the algorithm, observed independently. Declare a winner in at least two categories: (1) most muscle gained and (2) most efficient gain of muscle (Kgs of muscle per hour of training).
I bet you could croud source something like that.
The problem is, Full RoM means not the same activation at the same length for all Muscles.
Muscles are not involved all on the same range of motion.
Lengthen partials are more Isolation of the Isolation.
Full range of motion 100%
Body weight leg extensions provide more stretch. I wonder if they are better
Would be great to see a study on that sometime :)
1:16 The muscle in these animations looks so tasty.
Frustrating full ROM group was not included. As an aside, my own N=1 with hamstrings is that seated curls is indeed more effective than lying leg curls. Additionally there is less strain on my damaged lumbar.
Agreed, a full ROM group would have been very helpful. Also, very interesting to hear about your experience with seated curls, sorry to hear about your damaged lumbar!
THANKS
No problem, thank you for checking out the video!
Historically, the incline curl bench is notorious for tearing biceps because its unnatural resistance angle so I'm surprised it was used for this study.
You mean preacher curls?
Best is mid... u want to be 30-90 degrees( on biceps)... best ROM and gravity pull
So coming up 1/4 way from ass to grass squats would be long range ?
Yep!
Now nobody can crack on me saying quarter squats aren't doing anything. I've known this for years it was never about my ego it was about getting results. I still do some short length or full rom on my movements but is always as a high rep finisher with way less weight. Heavy top set is always long length(quarter/half rep).
Interesting stuff!
Are these quarter squats from "ass to grass" to about midway or abit above parallell, and then back down and repeat? I think that would be what is considered long length part rep, where short length(the one usually getting memed on) part rep would be standing up straight and from there only going down a little bit, to substantially above parallell.
People are missing one very important thing. Full range of motion is important not because of hypertrophy, but because your tendons will get shortened, stiffened and painfull overtime. Training at partial range of motion also promotes different strenght levels over the entire motion, and its generally unhealthy. Train to your 100% full range of motion, and stretch afterwards. Please.
The weight is 'heavier' at long length for this exercise. Just do it yourself. With straight arms it's far harder to lift the weight, whereas the short motion is easier - because of the leverage. This whole study is basic common sense and only applies to these specific exercises.
If you train at full length of motion, are you not also passing through the short length?
My suggestion is that you do not rob the short length. Momentum must be slow enough to engage your fast twitch muscle by rep #2 .
Adjust the resistance until you fail by rep #7 then leave it alone! You have caused stimulus. Eat and rest repete in 7 days.
all this is speculation. i think diet, consistency and stress levels have a direct bearing on any training, even in the fitness park, with your bodyweight alone.
Dont think it makes much difference whether you train long- or short-length. At the end of the day its still about how close to failure you go.
Why did they not test this for normal dumbell-curls? Problem with the preacher curl is that it is biased towards the long-length, since the maximum resistance is at the bottom of the exercise. The short-length group trained from 80° to 130°, which has like the lowest resistance during the whole range of motion since you are not really working against gravity. So i can imagine that the 10 reps were incredibly easy for the short-length group, which means that they probably didnt reach failure as hard as the long-length group. That could've explained the differences in gains.
I see what you mean with the preacher curls, but I still think it does make a difference. With many of the studies, I agree it can be difficult to compare to precise proximity to failures between groups, as the equate relative intensity. It would be better if subjects in all groups just trained to failure. Yet, there's logic to believe exercises that attain greater stretch of a muscle produce more hypertrophy, maybe by way of producing greater "mechanical tension". More precisely, acheving a stretch enables passive tension production, thus enhancing overall tension. There's also some evidence that muscles may be able to achieve greater voluntary activation (more force from the fibers) at long muscle lengths. I covered these concepts and the associated research in a video on this channel called "Full Range of Motion Is NOT Optimal For Building Muscle (New Study)"
5:08 why does it say degrees Celsius 😭😭
It's not a practical way to train, for the simple fact that when you train in a partial range of motion all the time, you set yourself up for injury because you're not strengthening the muscle in a portion of the full ROM. My uncle tore his bicep training that way; muscle and tendon tears are more common in BBers who train partial ROM than in those that train full ROM. That's also why it's a dumb idea to stop at shoulder height when doing front raises and laterals.
Also, you can get the same effect by doing 30+ reps full ROM to failure due to increased muscle protein synthesis and prolonged peaks of muscle protein synthesis. You need a minimum of 60 seconds TUT to fully switch over to the glycolytic pathway, hence 30 strict form reps at minimum to maximize anabolism.
Just incorporate both. It's a win-win
@@RJ-is9ko I used to, but I got injured doing that. Why do you think pro bodybuilders get injured so much? Partial reps, heavier weights, explosive lifting that increases load, momentum-increased load, plus drugs that accelerate muscle growth but don't accelerate connective tissue growth is a recipe for strains, sprains, pulls, and tears. Even without the drugs you can get those injuries from lifting like that.
People train like it's a race because they get overenthusiastic. My father did that, started doing partials on bench press in an attempt to increase the weight progression faster, bumped up to 300 pounds before he was ready and tore his rotator cuff. He had to get surgery and was never the same after that.
The less you expose yourself to injury risk, the better. That's why I train the way I do. I've been training since 1983 and I've made every rookie mistake in the book; I'm prone to lumbar sprains because of it and have adhesions in my right deltoid. Trust me, this isn't the way. Slow and steady wins the race.
Absolutely agree. Mike Ohearn trains with full ROM, heavy weights, never had a serious injury and looks great with 52 years.
@@PrometheusLux Good example, assuming that's all true about Mike. Full ROM and strict form keep you from getting ahead of yourself. You can lift heavier weights doing partials, but then you're exceeding your actual loading capacity. It's like weighing 300 pounds and jumping up and down on a weight bench that has a 300 pound capacity, or exercising on it with weights that put your total weight over the capacity of the bench. Eventually, it's going to break.
What if you're doing half reps on bodyweight exercises?
You do really good research and your videos have really good diagrams but you are so incredibly difficult to follow and understand what the way that you read things I don't mean this to be rude I just mean this as other people might be having that same issue where you make too many pauses or draw on too much. I am only saying this because I think if you worked on your speech you would be significantly more popular or if you summarized a little bit better as you tend to go back to the same point numerous times which also is confusing.
Why is this happening? why does hypertrophy happen at a longer length of the muscle?