Cilvanis makes a great point. If sparg0 didn't play idk where cloud would be on the tier list because it's not a lot of people playing him and getting high results
I agree 100% with Light's take on the tierlists and match up charts regarding fox's placements. The exact same thing happens with bayo. People lately be acting as if she is top 10 but then they all place her on their match up chart as +1 or even for their character. That shit makes no sense bruv, if she so broken how come she wins no match ups. I think the main issue is people are way too reductionist when making their match up charts. "Fox? I can kill him at 0 ofc I win. Bayo? She can't kill ofc I win" There is SO much more to these characters that they simply choose to ignore and it's so annoying
matchups are based on whats possible. so most matchups are winnable in our minds. just play better. but tier lists are based more on results. and most of us suck and get farmed by bayo and fox in torunaments so they become top tiers. so yes theoritically bayo and fox should be bad. we should beat them. edge guard them everytime. reality is not like that.
I noticed with these last couple episodes people discrediting light because "fox is broken" is starting to get to him all of the sudden. He just gotta let that go and not care man how do you think Miya and Acola feel and obviously fox is not as good as those characters but it just does him no good to worry about that. At the end of the day Everyone has the same CSS you can say you would never play this broken character cuz they're lame or whatever but all that really matters is being a winner. Like we can hate on steve or gnw or sonic but those fools just keep winning like no one else there's always gonna be morons talking shit. Beating players who put their heart and soul into the game is not easy as Light knows he's been at that top 10 all of ultimate and he's had slumps and came back plenty of times. People have been complaining about fox in smash since 1999 bro he lets you be aggro better than most of the other characters so it makes people mad you can just go in on them like that just keep doing your thing
@@CerebralFlight tweek has always had a crazy irrational hate for Fox though lmao idk it’s just like all the sudden light is getting really pissed about it. Fuck em man
He deserves it though. Fox IS broken in a lot of ways that are similar to Min Min. Oppressive as hell advantage state where one mistake will cost you 60% and put you off stage. Then a couple interactions to possibly die at ledge. Similar “bad” recovery that can be gimped but it isn’t all that easy to do.
18:05 Sylv is sounding like Sakurai saying that this game is balanced and that every character has a 50/50 chance of winning more or less. Basically saying that it's all player skill and not characters overpowering the whole roster, and if you think about it statistically I think this might be accurate but not to a T. What I mean by that is that some characters will still have a highest chance at winning more like 60/50, because they're good characters and you have to put less effort as a player, because they're easy to use too sometimes. That's why Tier Lists exist.
Bro I hope King K is Meta in Smash Infinite. He's the ultimate villain in DK story like bro every ultimate villain in the main games should be meta, Ganon, Sephiroth, King K, Bowser, all of them
The influencer/content creator thing is so sad because you can literally just be "funny", get some numbers, and then bam you can influence the impressionable people (who are really the ones at fault).
For Light's QUestion about fox. I'd literally say I think fox is probably top 20 and its probably an even MU but I hate it. I do think Yoshi can potentially have a winning MU vs Fox if we get him off stage which isn't too hard but uh... I also feel like we kinda can't land in that MU so..... eh.
Rankings will come back up eventually, but I would want to hear your guys’ opinion on this: does winning against players or winning tournaments matter more? A few episodes back, You guys talked about how it was wrong for tweek to be ranked below Hurt since Tweek won 2 majors last season even though Hurt’s wins against other players were better (ie winning tournaments is most important) but also said Sonix is the best skilled player on the planet not for winning tournaments but for his consistency against everyone (ie winning against players is more important).
Low tiers are annoying cause they armor through everything and “low tiers” is subjective of course. People wrote off Sora mad quick and I’m here sitting at 14.7 mill gsp on elite smash but don’t think shit sweet. It did take a while to get here lol and this pure grinding and hard work cause I have no idea what are good and bad matchups. I just rematch until I win and idc if it takes 10 losses to get 1 win, that 1 win means I learned something and if I can get 1 win, I can get another and that’s my mentality when it comes to Sora
Light still stuck in 2019. Since when is there no real win condition against joker?? Arsene Up B exist and you can just camp tf out of Arsene. Then regular joker struggles to kill besides with an aerial that you should always know is coming
@@gokiesbx857 Hoping that he gets Arsene when he's offstage is not a real win condition, not against Arsene and definitely not Joker in his entirety as a character. A win condition is not the same thing as counterplay. I hope you're aware of that.
Not to burst Light’s bubble, but aren’t the Grand Finals of EVO 2019 the most viewed Smash Ultimate video? :p
Yeah it is, by a good 2mill views too lol.
I think he’s talking about with a low tier, right?
@@EEvisui dont think so, cause he said "sorry tweek"
Cilvanis makes a great point. If sparg0 didn't play idk where cloud would be on the tier list because it's not a lot of people playing him and getting high results
Light can’t say anything about cosmos because he held it down during homeless season
Ahahaha true
Is cosmos homeless?
14:41 “play an honest game with me” THIS JIM PAYS FOX, WHAT DO YOU MEAN HONEST GAME 😂😂😂😂
man what's dishonest about fox 😭
@@TheVirginMeri ze blender
@@TheVirginMeriUnreactable kill confirms
I agree 100% with Light's take on the tierlists and match up charts regarding fox's placements. The exact same thing happens with bayo. People lately be acting as if she is top 10 but then they all place her on their match up chart as +1 or even for their character. That shit makes no sense bruv, if she so broken how come she wins no match ups.
I think the main issue is people are way too reductionist when making their match up charts. "Fox? I can kill him at 0 ofc I win. Bayo? She can't kill ofc I win" There is SO much more to these characters that they simply choose to ignore and it's so annoying
Bayo is clearly not that strong
matchups are based on whats possible. so most matchups are winnable in our minds. just play better. but tier lists are based more on results. and most of us suck and get farmed by bayo and fox in torunaments so they become top tiers. so yes theoritically bayo and fox should be bad. we should beat them. edge guard them everytime. reality is not like that.
A lil Mac won a tournament in Japan vs GREAT players. Any character can win.
Worst character in the game vs the best region in the world.
Anything is possible in Ultimate.
@@BryGuyJohn This game is amazing.
It was only a local.
@@ZizouEnjoyer225with Ken, Shuton, Umeki, Noi, Kept and more. Pretty stacked local all things considered
EE on a streak with those thumbnails on fleek 🤙
I am a firm Link believer. That character is high tier. Shout out to Kyon. 2025 shall be the year of the Tri-Force. Believe!
I noticed with these last couple episodes people discrediting light because "fox is broken" is starting to get to him all of the sudden. He just gotta let that go and not care man how do you think Miya and Acola feel and obviously fox is not as good as those characters but it just does him no good to worry about that. At the end of the day Everyone has the same CSS you can say you would never play this broken character cuz they're lame or whatever but all that really matters is being a winner. Like we can hate on steve or gnw or sonic but those fools just keep winning like no one else there's always gonna be morons talking shit. Beating players who put their heart and soul into the game is not easy as Light knows he's been at that top 10 all of ultimate and he's had slumps and came back plenty of times. People have been complaining about fox in smash since 1999 bro he lets you be aggro better than most of the other characters so it makes people mad you can just go in on them like that just keep doing your thing
It's only because tweek said something. They've been frenemies for a min
@@CerebralFlight tweek has always had a crazy irrational hate for Fox though lmao idk it’s just like all the sudden light is getting really pissed about it. Fuck em man
anyone talkin ish about lights fox will get it on sight
He deserves it though. Fox IS broken in a lot of ways that are similar to Min Min. Oppressive as hell advantage state where one mistake will cost you 60% and put you off stage. Then a couple interactions to possibly die at ledge. Similar “bad” recovery that can be gimped but it isn’t all that easy to do.
@@knudsonkent-wz4tp did you compare a rush down character to a lame keep out character that has ledge guarding mid stage…
I wish muteace was here to explain tier lists. Please bring him on
Perhaps!
Glad EE shouted out Rivals of Aether 2, sad light not gonna try it out though. A Zetterburn Light would go HARD.
bro the beginning and end of this ep was so unhinged and for no reason 😂
Cosmos is hearing the podcast like homelander 😂
18:05 Sylv is sounding like Sakurai saying that this game is balanced and that every character has a 50/50 chance of winning more or less. Basically saying that it's all player skill and not characters overpowering the whole roster, and if you think about it statistically I think this might be accurate but not to a T. What I mean by that is that some characters will still have a highest chance at winning more like 60/50, because they're good characters and you have to put less effort as a player, because they're easy to use too sometimes. That's why Tier Lists exist.
18:00 does EE doing the LowTierGod pose? LMAO
No need to fear EE, those bots are controlled remote by people backstage; They're not advanced enough to steal your work or lady my guy. You straight
Bro I hope King K is Meta in Smash Infinite. He's the ultimate villain in DK story like bro every ultimate villain in the main games should be meta, Ganon, Sephiroth, King K, Bowser, all of them
Hope asmon uses these two weeks to clean that dirty ass room
44:05 cilvanis crashout was so good 💀
27:08 this is why you don't spend it until you got it in your hands!
19:03 idk about that light lol
Cilvanis spittin this episode fr
2 for 2 smash podcast talking about the Goat Bruho love New England
thumbnail is on brand 😂😂
They did Zomba dirty
I honestly got clickbaited by the thumbnail alone
Tax talk was crazy this week
Tax deductible haircuts, haha.
Does anyone know what tournament cosmos won?
Mexico event, best Big boss in grands. I’ll try and get the start gg link
@@EEvisu thank you very much
Michael Scott censor haha, gotta watch live for the raw commentary lol
That joke had to be something that would get you cancelled there’s no way
The influencer/content creator thing is so sad because you can literally just be "funny", get some numbers, and then bam you can influence the impressionable people (who are really the ones at fault).
Idk if you know this or not or care but those Tesla robots were being remote controlled and voiced by real people
For Light's QUestion about fox. I'd literally say I think fox is probably top 20 and its probably an even MU but I hate it. I do think Yoshi can potentially have a winning MU vs Fox if we get him off stage which isn't too hard but uh... I also feel like we kinda can't land in that MU so..... eh.
Such a good ass episode 😂😂
bro the end of this ep lmao
Goat!
I was always a Light fan before this but after hearing he is also a ravens fan he is now my undisputed GOAT.
Guys what the fuck did EE say at the end? Lol
What’s light’s dog’s name? 👀
Fox🔥
@@classicaltravbrooo I just got to that part of video as soon as u replied! Chill dog and Chill owner 🤙
I miss the days when cosmos was here and light wasn't
Any thoughts on the skyjay situation?
What happened?
Doubt they wanna get into that cuz it's so new.
Nope, saw he denied everything so ain’t much to say tbh
GANON MAINS WHERE YOU AT??!
Tier lists are objectively just a list of who has the best matchup spread, no?
Rankings will come back up eventually, but I would want to hear your guys’ opinion on this: does winning against players or winning tournaments matter more? A few episodes back, You guys talked about how it was wrong for tweek to be ranked below Hurt since Tweek won 2 majors last season even though Hurt’s wins against other players were better (ie winning tournaments is most important) but also said Sonix is the best skilled player on the planet not for winning tournaments but for his consistency against everyone (ie winning against players is more important).
CirqueGang
is it ee making these thumbnails LMAO
Are yall gonna be at dream con 2025
As of now we plan to!
Nah what did EE say??💀😂😂
It was funny I swear
Low tiers are annoying cause they armor through everything and “low tiers” is subjective of course. People wrote off Sora mad quick and I’m here sitting at 14.7 mill gsp on elite smash but don’t think shit sweet. It did take a while to get here lol and this pure grinding and hard work cause I have no idea what are good and bad matchups. I just rematch until I win and idc if it takes 10 losses to get 1 win, that 1 win means I learned something and if I can get 1 win, I can get another and that’s my mentality when it comes to Sora
There's definitely low tiers but it feels like people just sporadically call everyone low tier. Everybody can't be low tier that doesn't make sense.
🥜🧈
sora's broken tho
Who asked lmao?
Goated take. Keep that mentality. I'm the same way with Ike. He is not low tier. He's mid.
Light still stuck in 2019.
Since when is there no real win condition against joker??
Arsene Up B exist and you can just camp tf out of Arsene.
Then regular joker struggles to kill besides with an aerial that you should always know is coming
Those are things that can happen across the span of a game. Not win conditions you're constantly working towards, like killing Fox or Aegis offstage.
@@lokks2130 Arsene off stage is a win condition for a majority of characters.
@@gokiesbx857 Hoping that he gets Arsene when he's offstage is not a real win condition, not against Arsene and definitely not Joker in his entirety as a character. A win condition is not the same thing as counterplay. I hope you're aware of that.
We need more diversity on the podcast.
Racist
Wtf ee said???
🤫
Nah , Call of Dookie is garbage
Can someone actually explain the joke?
No
@@EEvisu 😡
Vote for D Trump!