IC-7610: Fix this interface, Icom! A rant on strange UI/UX design decisions
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- The IC-7610 is one of the best radios on the market, and certainly my favorite! But what about the interface? Here’s my list of interface issues:
1:01 Button Panel is bands only. Screen defaults to band input too!
2:03 Change, XCF button
2:59 Inactive VFO always shows
3:20 Select inactive VFO and can’t hear it!
3:40 Sub VFO light is off, light goes orange when pressed, but what does it do?
4:29 Transmit Bandwidth is hidden! Actual bandwidth adjustment is 7 menus deep!
5:35 Meters shows FOUR S-Meters! Two are off, two are identical. Spectrum is small now!
6:12 Meter UI has unused button spaces and “PHOLD” red warning text always on
6:58 Can’t adjust spectrum at all while meters are showing!
7:25 Large blank space under spectrum because it doesn’t automatically re-size!
7:44 Reference control is backwards, and what does “DEF” button do? Beep?
8:42 Scope out of range? Really? Why would anyone not want the radio to put it in range?
9:32 Transmit Audio Adjustments severely lacking. This is an SDR, right? How difficult could a few bands of parametric EQ be? “Bass” and “Treble” knobs aren’t really what technical users expect...
11:33 Where is the memory? VFO/Memory button? There’s nothing “quick” about this!
13:22 Only 99 memory channels. Really? No categories or banks? Icom, the 1980s called, they want their SRAM memory conservation schemes back!
14:30 Memory editor can’t actually EDIT! WHY? What is this screen for anyway? Displaying what you can’t edit? You can’t even enter memory mode from this screen!
16:30 Antenna button and antenna menu is not intuitive! Does not take advantage of the screen at all!
17:50 Spectrum does not expand! “M SCOPE” button does nothing useful!
18:10 Tuning steps. Multi-knob does nothing without menus open! Wasted opportunity for a 1khz tuning knob!
19:01 Where is the MHz button?
19:30 Red TX warning label is always here! Even when receiving! Was this some kind of debug feature that made it in to the final build?
What do you think? Should Icom fix some of these issues with a firmware update? What is it going to take to get ham radio designers to take a serious look at UI/UX?
Update: Some of y'all are saying to read the manual. I've read it. But the point here is, the interface isn't intuitive. And reading the manual isn't going to fix obvious blunders or add any modern radio features.
For example, reading the manual will not change how the band buttons come up on the screen instead of the frequency input. This is an obvious oversight of the software engineers copy-paste from the 7300 (which lacks band and frequency buttons); they should have known the radio has those buttons on the front panel and defaulted to frequency entry!
Or take the Meters. When you exit the meters, the spectrum display stays rolled up and small, and you can't use the spectrum controls. But when you exit the antenna menu (launched the same way as meters), then the spectrum comes right back down as it ought to. The manual isn't going to change it!
Why does the secondary VFO always show up, and yet, all the controls don't work! I know, press DUAL-W to turn on the secondary VFO. Nonetheless, the VFO shows up, you can enter frequencies and press mute, but it doesn't do anything! What's the point? Why require the user to turn on the second receiver? Clearly if I am selecting it and pressing mute I'm interested in using it.
A software defined radio should just take that extra step and do it. Same goes for making the display large after closing the meters. Nobody wants that large black rectangle. Using the 7610 is sometimes like using an old radio filled with gears and relays; why make the user execute obvious tasks when the software can just do it?
I am a psychologist and a computer software engineer. For many years I designed human interfaces for computer systems. One of the first things you learn on that job is that everyone is an expert on how the thing should work and what the controls should look like. People you have never heard from before come out of the woodwork with their opinions and critiques. And, they are mostly correct because they are the ones who will be using the thing. It's like all engineering problems. You do what you can with what you have and you try to satisfy as many people as possible. In general Icom has done a great job. I own several of their radios and chose many of them specifically because the user interface was consistent across products and so much better than their competitors' radios. I am sure they are listening to this guy and will take his comments to heart. And when they make changes, a new set of people will complain. That's the way engineering works.
This was one of the best critiques of Icom's UI I have ever seen. You were spot on so many levels. You should work for Icom QA.
Honestly they just need to run some focus groups. Give a variety of hams some common tasks and watch them as they go through it. And of course, give the engineers schedule and funding to address what they find! 73
Outstanding video Sir... I wish Icom would hire you as a consultant to make sure they design for the user.
Easily the BEST video in the history of amateur radio. This is what I call a REAL review. No bullcrap. A video made by an actual thinking person and not an appliance operator. I never liked that radio. Ever. Execution was all wrong. Horrible quality out of the gate (and yes those cheap feeling wobbly knobs) failing screens and finally every single thing you have said is true and thank God someone articulate was able to communicate it. We are all in your debt.
Edited to add: Icom's menu system is NOT bad at all compared to every other radio out there. In some instances I wish it was even more complex! But menus are not the issue here as superbly pointed out in this video. Please RESIST the urge to ever take this video down. It's more useful than anyone can even realize now.
Wow. For starters Turn the RIT knob. DEF stands for default. Auto Tune zero beats CW and AM. As for the scope. Update than push n hold the exp/set and adjust to how you like. Adjust for center or fixed.
Is memory really that important on HF? Lastly you’ve inspired me to make a video as to the simple easy user interface of the radio.
In your video, will you show how to edit the memory channels using the Memory screen? How about how to exit the Meters app and still control the scope? How about the frequency entry buttons, can you find those? Memory/VFO button? Where's the audio control? Any way to hide those four s-meters? How about those calculator-style controls for the Antenna selection? Is there a way to just use the touch screen to assign an antenna?
I know what these controls do, I have read the manual. The point is, this radio is not *intuitive*. With small changes, the radio could have been much more easy to figure out. I actually think the menus on this radio are really nice and not difficult to navigate. But I think the main screen is where it lacks attention to detail.
You gonna make that video? Looking forward to it.
Coming from the 7300, I find no issues with this radio, it was a seamless upgrade. The things you point out are irrelevant to the way I use this radio, it appears OM your operating style is not suited to this rig.
Even the 9700 is more advanced than the 7610. I had a 7300 and at least it’s interface matched it’s capabilities.
I mean really. Does your operating style like not having frequency entry buttons on the face plate, and, having the screen default to band buttons when you press on the frequency with your finger? How about the four S-Meters? How does that fit your operating style? And what about that large black space under the spectrum when you close the meters and can’t adjust the spectrum? How does that ever fit into an “operating style”?
You like that “quick” button? Is that “style”?
I mean I can see how people might like a giant red “TX” all the time to remind them that they can transmit, but the rest just seems very under-designed.
I was just telling some friends that almost all reviews only tell us the good things (that we mostly already know) and nobody focuses on the gotchas and the lousy ergonomics. Well it was great to see this review - exactly what I want to know BEFORE I buy something. I passed on the 7610 for several reasons, the main being the stupid number of button pushes to change between modes. Plenty of room to have dedicated buttons (like my 7800) but nope. The designers are not users of their radios or they'd improve the ergonomics forthwith. I went with the Elecraft K4. A whole set of other things and missing features I find not very handy... but they may be coming in future updates. I hope. It has some great features, like any radio, but I wish someone had dissected it like you did for the 7610. Yes, it's mode switching is also terrible.... Keep up the good work. Don VE6JY
As flashy as the radio looks Icom carry’s forward a lot of the non intuitive and feature lacking functions I have experienced since the early ic706 days. They just didn’t make a clean break and introduce us to as much of a clean intuitive interface as they could have. The key is to survey and listen to your customers, your end users, and invite them prior to release to use the device, take notes, and make changes where possible. The Japanese have never really excelled in this area. I get the idea this is one of those mfgs half backed interim radios released to meet schedule in a competitive landscape.
I agree, I own a 7610 and it has the worst interface on any modern radio. When I first tried it I wanted to return it but I opened the box, so no return. You forgot the no mode button, no notch button and no mouse control outside the spectrum display. I use hamradio deluxe to ease control of the radio. The I/Q out running hdsdr is it's best feature. I now have an Anan 7000dle with all the features one could want.
Looking at a video of the IC-7600 the key pad on the front has both the band and numbers on the buttons so it seems like Icom got stupid when they added the dual receiver function, also the change button on the 7610 is the TX tuning step button on the 7600.
@@pauliedweasel even my ancient IC-736, from Icom, has band and frequency combo buttons. I really don’t understand how they allowed the interface of their flagship radio to regress like this. That said, it’s still a great radio in so many aspects.
I just had a new 7610 in an online Shopping Cart and decided to look at one more review. Super helpful review. I thought the 7300 was annoying, this is a disaster! Thanks! I just removed it from the cart. I'm spending the extra $1000 for a FTDX101MP instead.
Personally I am looking forward to trying a Kenwood TS-890. I like that the Ethernet is built in and the protocol is understood in the open source arena. The interface looks a bit better than the Yaesu, but you never really know until you try it out of course.
73
My main gripe is no notch filter in the forefront, either on the screen or a button. The APF/TPF button is way less useful and should be reprogrammable to AN/MN.
Thank you for this video. I've been on the fence about this or an FTdx-101, though not any longer.
In my opinion, the 7610 is still a better radio. It’s just a shame the UI is so unusual. But of course both of these rigs are wonderful.
don't get the 101. most of the questions are fixable with the manuals
@@RoelandJansen Can't fix those 99 memories though! Can't edit the memories on that beautiful screen! Can't tune the transmit audio! Can't have a normal VFO/Memory button! Can't see the spectrum controls when you close the meters! Can't adjust antennas with the touch screen! Can't Can't Can't! With the 7610, it's a 7600 with some minor additions but with no leverage given to the SDR architecture much less the gorgeous touch screen. The manuals won't help with these limitations. It's probably still a better radio than the 101 but you cannot claim that this radio is intuitive much less feature-rich. The manual won't change the design.
@Carrot Cruncher I don’t doubt it. The 7610 is a great radio. It’s just a shame the UI/UX is so odd.
I'm a Macintosh software developer and have a running list of similar awkward design decisions I've identified in the FTdx10. Based on my 40 years of experience in the software industry I believe the IC-7610 was rushed to ship before the software was as good as the engineers wanted. Icom like Yaesu is still learning what it means to be in the software business and selling great user experiences versus selling radios. The software isn't finished just because the product shipped to customers.
These are great radios and offer excellent value. The small disappointment is they could be so much better with a relatively small investment in improving the software. I suspect the engineers know this but their management culture is slow to adapt.
If you want friendly user interface and a good radio too, buy a Kenwood TS-890S.
Wobbly volume knobs are very annoying and make the radio feel cheap. I want a front panel button and knob for notch filler like the 7600.
As mine has gotten more wobbly over time, I agree. My “MULTI” encoder knob also skips spots sometimes. All my other Icom radios feel much better. Not sure what happened here with the component selection process.
very informative. thank you
What do I think? I think you should read the effing manual. That would have answered a lot of your questions.
Like where the other memory channels are? Is that in the manual? Does the manual excuse the boombox-style bass and treble controls? Does the manual tell you why the spectrum controls disappear when you exit the menu? Does the manual tell you how to remove the second VFO? Does the manual tell you why there are redundant S-Meters? Maybe the manual will say why the Memory menu is so useless? Perhaps the manual says why the reference is backwards of every piece of RF gear I’ve ever used? Maybe the manual will tell us why there aren’t any memory banks.
I read the manual. It changes nothing. The radio has both obvious bugs and many missing features. The limitations applied to the design of the UI/UX we’re from 25 years ago.
Even Icom’s own IC-9700 is easier to use than the 7610. Read both manuals, by the way.
It comes down to design. The 7610 is literally designed this way. If the manual says the spectrum controls are supposed to disappear when you open and close the meters, that doesn’t make it the right choice.
re 19:30 -- did you notice that the TX side indicator changes from the main to the sub if you select split mode?
If it were not there you never can tell what freq you are going to TX on.
Then perhaps for this particular mode such an indicator is justified. Despite this, the indicator reads "TX" when it is not transmitting. It's not clear that it means "You could transmit and it will happen on this VFO". Perhaps if it were gray "TX" it would be more obvious that you're not transmitting? I realize this is a staple of many recent Icom radios, the big red "TX" during receive, and I understand the desire for continuity across the line, but I do think it is a poor choice to put red "TX" during receive.
I don't have the RUclips worthy issues you have, but Icom certainly missed the boat on a few things. First IP+ should not be on the screen as it is useless. Put the NOTCH there instead. And then the 10 Band buttons are not dual purpose! What a waste of buttons & panel space. I still like my IC-7700 better. And as someone said below, the TS-890 got the user interface right.
Yes! They’re proud of IP+ even though it’s worthless.
Oh and the orange led light indicates it’s Muted. Perhaps you should watch Bob Nagy’s channel and than Ham Radio Concept especially in reference to the scope.
But when you press the button again, it un-mutes. Yet, no audio. So... why is there a mute control for a VFO that you cannot hear anyway? I think it's non-intuitive. The IC-9700, for example, lets you activate the VFO with a long-press on the secondary VFO volume knob (instead of un-muting an inactive VFO).
Love my 7610 as well, but the UI could use a bit more polishing. Same thing with the 7300 and 9700 that I own as well.
Wow. I like the radio but some of that stuff is amazingly bad. It will be interesting to see if Icom takes notice.
well, of course you're right! This should be better for a radio of this price class. But you shouldn't say this out loud. All icom followers are bumped in the head by it. how dare you to depreciate this sacred cow. I also have something to add that I do not like. Tracking mode: 1. the annoying flashing blue led, it should not blink. 2. If you activate vfo b during tracking and turn the frequency knob, the tracking mode will be disabled.
You missed my long standing gripe. Why does it say “SPECTRUM SCOPE” on the…….spectrum scope? I think we all know what it is.
Wow thank you for the video Elliott, I was considering upgrading my 7300 now I'm not so sure. Would you buy this rig again if you didn't own it? Cheers
Hi Jordan, I think it's a great radio overall. It just depends on your expectations.
If you're expecting a traditional (non-SDR-like) radio experience, but with a waterfall display and ethernet control, then this is a good radio. It's like an IC-7600 really. But if you want the kind of flexibility of a modern SDR and an updated interface, then there are some other options to consider (flex, sunsdr, etc). There's nothing inherently wrong with the 7610, it just misses the mark of a modern radio (imo) due to so many things it does which feel kind of stuck in the past (or even broken, depending on your POV).
Even the IC-9700 has a bit of a more refined interface, although many of these issues do apply to both radios.
To me, I use software to control the radio and I try and avoid using it from the interface due to my blood pressure. I don't know why some things take so many menus, nor can I understand some obvious UI oversights and obvious missing features.
As a transceiver, it is excellent. It is sensitive and capable of most any normal ham radio task. I don't regret owning it at all! This radio has totally changed how I do ham radio due to the built-in ethernet port. The digital preselector is also great when my air conditioning kicks in and the EMI goes wild.
The only similar radios I would consider would be the Kenwood TS-890 and Kenwood TS-990. Otherwise, Flex or SunSDR (once the war is over -- I'm not up for buying it right now due to where the money goes).
Ask me any questions you have.
73,
--E
de W6EL
I think you are 100% right, its a software defined radio, that gives them the ability to do just about anything. Using the PC to control the radio is probably better. There are so many radio control programs that give you the ability to do most of want you're looking for. It does make you wonder what they were thinking when they designed it. I have a Yaesu 5000mp and have access to 99% of everything you pointed out.
I'm personally a fan of wfview, but I can't say we have all the controls figured out yet. We'll get there though!
I had a 7610 and i liked it apart from the screen burning and the other faults i suffered with it. i went back to a 7300. If the 7610 is icoms flag ship radio icom need to vastly improve it. For £3000 pound its not worth the money. only thing the 7300 should have is illuminated buttons.
I haven’t noticed the screen burning, I’ll look more carefully to see if mine does it. I had a 7300 as well, excellent little radio with great capabilities. I think the 7610 got a sort of copy-paste from the 7300 interface software. Yes, illuminates buttons would really make that rig great!
it performs nearly as the 7851. It is worth it
I agree on that some buttons should definitely be better when lghted. Even the flagship doesn't have it for most so if's getting darker..... I need a small spotlight.
@Carrot Cruncher Until you buy a used one on Ebay with a ticking time bomb screen. We all know about the "bad batch" and sure Icom will fix them for free. But until when? And you have to pay shipping BOTH ways. It was poor execution out of the gate and turned alot of people off.
Icom had great engineering team but lacks some hams sadly.
Sometimes you don’t know what you don’t know! That pretty well describes this reviewer.
I’m still trying to “know” why I’d want four S-meters or why I’d not want to be able to edit memories! 73!
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I don't either and I have one.
It sounds like this isn't the radio for you.
I've had one here on loan for about a week for evaluation, and can't agree with most of your observations.
This is my first experience with an Icom rig and I am seriously considering trading in a K3 for the 7610.
I do agree with the timer button...but that's small potatoes.
My bigger complaint with the Icom is the convoluted way it has of setting exact output power - I can't simply dial up 50W, say. To accurately set an output power requires an external meter. That's only a bother for when I want to run a specific output level, such as 5W for QRP or 37W to drive my amplifier to 1kW.
Other than that, the rig seems solid and not difficult to navigate. And considering it's about half the price of a K4, it's a much better value.
Some of the complaints you have seem to be a lack of understanding of what the radio is trying to tell you. For example, the red TX indicator lets you know what frequency you *will* transmit on - pretty important for split operation or SO2V.
You must read the instructions before posting a video! You are misleading people shame on you!
I’ve read the directions. The point here is that this radio 1: lacks obvious features, 2: contains bugs, and 3: isn’t intuitive. Reading the manual doesn’t change any of that. There’s nothing misleading here, you are watching a very experienced operator use a radio that quite frankly isn’t as well-designed as it should be. And I’m biased towards it too since I think it’s a fantastic radio otherwise. You have to understand, when you see me searching for buttons or features, this is really how it is to use this radio. I’m not hiding anything. And no amount of studying the manual will excuse the obvious interface design blunders. Not to mention the bugs. I read the manual and I still have 4 s-meters and I can’t edit the memory channels using the memory UI. I still can’t find the transmit audio noise gate and EQ. I read the manual and I still can’t get that inactive second “VFO” to go away. I read the manual and I still have 99 memories (with very limited interface) on a $3000 radio.
Did you watch the video?
Does the manual say the volume knobs should be wobbly?
Many of this reviewer's criticisms reflect his lack of knowledge of the controls and manual. I cannot see Icom taking this rant seriously.
Well, I have read the manual. The point is, it's not intuitive. Many of the controls don't do what they seem like they should obviously do. For example, pressing on the volume knob for the inactive VFO makes it beep but not do anything. The IC-9700 got this right, you can use those buttons to enable the inactive VFO, and even hide it.
It does not impact my feeling about the radio's interface that the manual explains these (rather obtuse) things in great detail. If the manual says clicking that volume button does nothing unless DUAL-W is pressed first, then the design is flawed. It's that simple.
What does the manual say about when you exit the meter display, with the spectrum and waterfall controls disappearing? Is that really intended behavior? If that's in the manual (I don't see it), then I would be really surprised.
And then there are the odd things. Like the four S-meters. Why would they want 4 s-meters? Don't you think most people would rather have more space for the waterfall than a redundant mirrored s-meter? The manual doesn't provide a good explanation for this decision, nor a way to disable the extra s-meters. Why does pressing the frequency readout bring up an extra band-button panel? Don't they know the radio has that already, and that clicking on the frequency is the user's way of trying to change the frequency? Reading the manual indicates this is the intended behavior! But why? It's clear that the interface designers either didn't care or ran out of time to do a proper design.
This radio holds so much promise. Big touch screen, software-defined architecture, powerful CPU, great receiver, advanced digisel preselector, etc. But it just doesn't leverage any of it.
"READ THE MANUAL" !!!!!
“Read it” but it’s still only got 99 memory channels for some reason. I also read the manual and I can still only find bass and treble knobs. I read the manual and it says the red TX is always there. Doesn’t make it a good design!
Too bad you cannot afford to buy a transceiver. Do the K4.
I’d be happy to borrow one for a review! I’d like to try the FT101 and the TS-890 as well. Seriously if any of you are in SoCal send me a message.
@@W6EL SoCal? Is that a drink?
@@K1OIK No, it's actually a STATE....Hello ??
I disagree on most of the part (and you know ;-))
Pointless !
Mike WB9YPA
I totally concur with W6EL's evaluation of this rig. It seems as though Icom's marketing department was in a big rush to get the IC-7610's sold to their distributors before they had the opportunity to streamline the operation of the user interface. Yeah, why no V/M button on a rig costing over three times the 7300? All of those extra steps to do just that. I have somewhat gotten used to the "convoluted" menu system, but, it needs lots of work before I would consider it intuitive. Doesn't Icom realize the edge that they are giving their competition? I mean, this rig has been out for a few years now and no firmware updates to change any of this yet? Another anomaly is the clock. Why should we have to hit EXPD/SET button to bring up UTC time zone? And why no date? I know, some will ask me why I don't just hang a calendar up on my wall for that. At the time of posting this comment it has been over a year since the last published firmware update. I am beginning to get the impression that Icom considers this rig an obsolete dodo bird. Now for the good part... I must admin that I am more than impressed with the performance of this transceiver. I have been able pick signals out of the noise that I can't begin to hear with other radios that I have compared to it. The filtering and noise reduction is remarkable. I must say that in spite of the UI setback, (yes setback) I do not have any regrets in purchasing the IC-7610, but, Icom, PLEASE improve the user experience!
I think the deal is that the competition is just not up for doing better. Yaesu on their flagship radios still makes you buy a dongle to get ethernet, and the UI on Yaesu is always more convoluted. Kenwood makes some nice HF rigs (890 and 990) but they come at a significant price. And I agree with you, the 7610 is a great transceiver. It's just these things with the user experience that could really use a few tweaks. Small changes would make a big difference. It may sound petty, but once you have one of these 7610 radios and have to press four or five buttons to get to common functions, you start to notice it every time you use the radio. Meanwhile, "auto tune" and "quick" are sitting there staring at you all day...