This is the Intro Maker of ECM5, everybody! I need to clarify a few things. I was gonna wait until my Quarterly Update on my channel to explain things, but I say it here. It doesn't matter if this gets a highlighted post or not. Firstly, no. Lewis is not paying me since I do all this for free. I would rather get tips for the tip jar. Secondly, if you saw in the ending credits, yes I've been having a rough time since the end of June of this year. First my computer got hacked totally compromising my Discord Account. I do have another one that is a bit older. The hack happened the same day my Grandmother passed away. No job, no commissions, no paid musical requests, barely any money, my computer getting hacked, and my Grandmothers' passing, it was enough to break me down. One bad day, as the Joker would say. I thought for sure I had to get a new computer. Thankfully, it didn't come to it and I was able to thwart the hacker before he/she did any real damage to both me and my family members. So I have been pretty low as of late. I will have to get a new computer at some point, but I don't have the funds. There is some good news, I'm gonna be taking care of my Late Grandmother's house until the Spring. With that, I can concentrate on getting my projects done and start some new ones without my father breathing down my neck (He probably thinks that what I do and what I want to do is a waste of time). However, I would like to have this house permanently, but can I really do that even with my finances? Only time will tell. But seeing my work being used and people complimenting me on my work, wheather it would be AT4W or my own, it's enough to bring me back to the land of the living. So stay tuned for more Logos and Intro, and as always, the best has yet to come. Thank you all.
My pitch for Secret Wars II Abridged: *Beyonder:* _[Appears]_ WHAT IS THE MEANING OF EXISTENCE? *Every Single Marvel Character:* F*** if we know! *Beyonder:* THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME! _[Disappears]_
The crazy thing about this event isn’t the Beyonder himself…but that this event played a small part in establishing a VERY VERY IMPORTANT part of The Hulk’s mythos in a tie in. I’m not kidding, the Secret Wars 2 tie in of The Incredible Hulk delved deeply into the trauma Bruce had with his father as a kid, where he established the Savage Hulk persona. Some reading lists for Hulk as a character mark this tie in as crucial reading for the character. …adjacent to an event where the Beyond learns what food and pee is.
The entire Secret Wars series of events feels like it's out of order. This is supposed to be the first secret wars while the sequel SHOULD be the epic, yet tragic battle where The Beyonder has learned what it means to be human, and his only solution was to host a tournament of power with the earth's mightiest heroes he met along the way, from Spider-Man to the Avengers. He creates Battleworld as the direct result of this ephiphany, and forces the heroes to fight only for his ego to be his undoing.
is kinda funny how both hulk and spider-man (and venom by default) got new addition to their mythos that would define the character and their mythology one way or another forever, in comics related to the beyonder. hulk got the tie in to secret wars 2 where it explores the psych of bruce banner spider-man would get the black costume symbiote (do i really need to say why this was important for venom?)
The writer who got those superpowers was meant to mock Steve Gerber, creator of Howard the Duck who got into a heated legal battle with Marvel over the character.
@@WhaleManMan I think it's a further sign of the aimlessness of the entire story. Like Todd in the Shadows said, this kind of in-joke is often a last resort of a creator who has no other ideas.
That makes sense. Sounded about as edgy and whiny as Gerber could be. Just as a note, I don't hate Gerber and actually like his work on some series, but he could come across as really edgy, whiny and misanthropic at times.
I feel like there was a very obvious solution to save this premise: Have Doom's actions from Secret Wars be the catalyst for The Beyonder wanting to examine humanity. The whole reason Doom got the opportunity he did to take his powers stemmed from The Beyonder's curiosity as to why Doom did what he did, and you could make up some explanation that retaking his powers from Doom messed with his mental state.
@romdan7136 The MCU's done a pretty good job at adapting unpopular stories and making them work. The only adaptation of that type they dropped the ball on was Secret Invasion, and one of the problems with that series is it's drier than dust.
I love how rather than give the Beyonder the voice of a godlike being, His voice is of a crazy man with no volume control. Like the aliens from Galaxy Quest if they suffered a concussion
I mean... Even then I feel like this story is better than Stranger in a Strange Land primarily on the fact there's no s*x cult. Still, not a high bar, and this event was pretty dull overall...
@mitkitty However, they can also provide free/discount security. I could see a Heroes for Hire issue where they try to get somewhere while preventing criminal plots with the understanding that any damages get added to their fare.
Beyonder: "Spider-Man taught me an important lesson. That with great water comes a great need to pee." Also, wouldn't it be funny if the Beyonder undid the deal with Mephisto to thank Peter for teaching him how to pee? Also also, I spotted Clark Kent on a TV in Issue #7. Lastly, does the ending mean that Molecule Man created the New Universe/Kickers Incorporated?
Yes, the idea was Secret Wars would lead to the creation of the New Universe. It even has a "white event" at the ending but that was pretty downplayed.
The best tie in to secret wars II where the new mutants issues that came afterwards, dealing with the depression and trauma that the team suffered after having g their existence snuffed out and toyed with by the beyonder. It showed how their new headmaster was ill equipped to deal with it, forcing him to turn to Emma Frost in desperation. Even she couldn’t suppress the trauma telepathically and in the end she and magneto have to slowly help them work through it with therapy. It was a rare example of this kind of thing not being hand waved away and the first time we see Emma as anything more than a conniving villain.
This events feels like a bad 1st draft of the sandman. An omnipotent being interacting with mortal beings to try and understand aspects of existence. A ruler of hell making plans to destroy the main character. The main character falling in love with mortals, and the relationships ending because they can't relate to him. The main character needing to reborn in order to reconcile with the change that they have gone through. I'm not saying the sandman is a ripoff or anything and i'm probably reading way too much into it, but i just thought these connections were weird. Great review as always.
I think one reason a lot of people went with Contest of Champions is because they recognized the name from the mobile game, and didn’t think much further than that. Not saying the story is bad (I haven’t read it) that’s just usually how things go
The weirdest thing is that all of the stuff involving The Beyonder wanting to discover love with Sharon, Dazzler, & Boom Boom... could have all just been done with Toots, who already came to visibly care for "Frank", thanked him for inspiring her to do something different with her life, and would have made for a perfect person for The Beyonder to experience love with. Toots could have done more or less everything that Dazzler & Boom Boom did with Beyonder, and even Sharon's whole suicide bit could have been done with Toots instead (as unneeded as it was). Just feels like Jim Shooter wanted to have Beyonder fall in love with two superheroines (& an utterly random woman) to pad out the event, instead of simply continuing with what was already an established supporting character in Toots. Could have removed a couple of issues from the length, too!
I love the idea that Toots would really fell in love for the Beyonder (and for the sake of streamlining the story give her the elments of dazzler's and boom boom's storylines), but on the other hand I love the idea that toots was "the one that got away". that even beyonder knows she could have been the one, but it is afraid that their relationship would go south just like it did with boom boom or dazzler. that he is so afraid it could go bad, that he doesn't even want to keep in touch with her or become her friend. that he doesn't even want to use his powers to see a future where they can work. he is that afraid. he prefers to just treasure the happiness she got from him, even if he is no longer part of it maybe even give him that moment with loki (al ewing's version) and how he can relate to that feeling. loki probably mentioning his friendship with verity and how he even saved her from the destruction of the multiverse (and finally say what happened to her)
@@jaredziemer775 That's a great idea to move her away from Transformers. Or maybe Hasbro should do away with her superhero identity and user her civilian name
I was just thinking she could easily be slid in to. Marvel without bringing up the Transformers. Have her injury be caused by a sentinel or an Ultron or any number of robots that exist in Marvel. And have her acting as a villain against someone that like a vision or any of the other robotic superheroes that exist. And if done right she could be the kind of character where she flips between hero and villain vendetta. Like maybe assisting the X-Men because she hates Sentinels even though she doesn't give a crap or even hates mutants.
I like Vinnie. Dude wasn't in the story long but I like the idea that a crime boss gets access to this unimaginable power, but he actually shows RESTRAINT and doesn't have the Beyonder try to make him king of the world or something. He instead increases his profits without crashing the market, takes care of his employees by curing any injuries or illness they have (including his wife and son), and even prevents him from cheating to win at gambling since he understands the risk of losing is what makes it engaging and the payout better. And at the end HE'S the one who sends the Beyonder off saying he doesn't have anything else he could possibly teach him. You know that if the KINGPIN had met the Beyonder he'd have abused his powers to their fullest extent for as long as possible.
The assailant that killed the Hate Monger was a Scourge of the Underworld, part of another storyline going on in the 80s Marvel comics where minor Supervillains got killed off my a disguised gunmen who'd then shout Justice is Served. The Hate Monger was the third victim (after She Hulk villain The Enforce and classic Fantastic Four villain Miracle Man) and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that it was a rogue Scourge Agent working for the Red Skull who performed the hit. Yes I literally came into the comments to say this, I'm a bit of a nerd!
@@louisduarte8763 as far as I know they never crossed paths, though Captain America did initially suspect The Punisher of the killings after he prevented the murder of The Constrictor. His most infamous killing though was the Bar With No Name Massacre, where he killed 17 supervillains (one survived but died years later) during a meeting to discuss the threat, namely: Commander Kraken (which might be the most wasted cool villain name ever if you ask me), Hellrazor, Rapier (a one shot Spider Man villain that contradicted the established backstory for Silvermane so much that it got ignored in the mobster’s next appearance) Cheetah (animal themed Supervillain who looked nothing like a cheetah) Jaguar, Steeplejack, Letha, The Vamp, Turner D. Century (yes, really), Firebrand (retired at that point) Mind-Wave (one shot Daredevil villain created as a foe for Uri Geller, yes, really), Shellshock, Cyclone (minor Spider-Man foe from France), The Ringer (the one survivor), Mirage (another minor Spider-Man foe notable for debuting in the marriage of Ned Leeds and Betty Brant issue and being Mysterio at home), Bird-Man II (one of the Ani-Men who attacked Daredevil), The Grappler (minor She-Hulk foe) and The Hijacker. A good chunk of the villains stayed dead though a few were brought back to fight The Punisher with predictable results
I still think that "Peter parker meeting a deity like being, and teaching him how to pee" might be one of the most "peter parker" things that could happen to him
The Iron Giant: What is death? Short Circuit: Do I have self-determination? NieR Automata: What is the point of out life? Pinoccio: How do we define what It means to be human? Secret War 2: Why is food?
Oh thank Jack, I wasn't the only one thinking "This whole plot sounds weirdly similar to Marville to me. Does this sound weirdly similar to Marville to anyone else?"
Honestly, unironically love this story with how weirdly human and chaotic Beyonder development is while playing full potential of all his abilities. Honestly, it is refreshing considering most either try to do Doctor Manhattan apathetic ass or absolute perfect bean who is innocently childish with no real agency, while Beyonder has agency and is selfish, but at the same time developed sense of morality and empathy, while entire Marvel universe is on the ride.
I honestly think this and New Universe were the reasons Jim Shooter was fired from Marvel. He wasn't just writer, but editor-in-chief, so he probably overruled a lot of people who tried to improve things (and I'm saying that as someone who likes Shooter personally and loves a ton of his work).
@@gabrieldevoogel6225 Thus, the ever-expanding influence of journey to the west continues! From being the inspiration to DragonBall and the general hero journey type that most people utilizes
@@gabrieldevoogel6225also Sports tournaments. We see something like Captain Tsubasa precede both Secret Wars and Dragon Ball's first Tenkaichi Budokai
The only thing I can remember from this series besides the one bit was a tie-in issue with Spider Man, where the government refuses to just have a gold building lying around. For whatever reason, the team they call in to dismantle the evidence is GI Joe, led by who is unmistakably Duke. And considering GI Joe was established as its own universe from Day 1, that’s just weird to have the Marvel version of Uncle Sugar call in the Joes.
Honestly not only do i agree theres INSANE potential for a good story/discussion around the beyonder removing death, but also Dave becoming death. A death that was formerly human and thus knows about the pain death can bring, but still carrying out the act? I feel like there's something there- maybe he could even serve as a more human element to the conceptual beings
That little bit about Molecule Man realising that his girlfriend must love him for a reason, and thus finding his own self worth was honestly really sweet, I think that's the only bit of this whole story I actually enjoyed, the rest was a SLOG even with your witty commentary. Also, classic Marvel event comic: the title is a lie. WHAT WAR? And it certainly isn't a secret!
I feel like this event can be better if it was re-ordered. Combine Dazzler's and Boom-Boom's sections together. Have the Beyonder do the organization thing first, THEN he takes the world after it fails and AFTER the Dazzler and Boom-Boom. Thunderblade can be made as a major villain; perhaps serving as an evil side of humanity while Dave serves as a good side. You can still have the comical and philosophical side, but with Mephisto and Thunderblade working together to have some action and add more conflict.
@@kinosmead I agree although both weren’t miniseries with tie-ins, going by Linkara’s definition. I don’t necessarily agree with it but that’s the reason I didn’t mention it.
@@orangeblaster500 I'm not sure if it would count or not, but they were involved in the Outlawed storyline a few years back. The thing is, there was only one issue of Outlawed, then the rest of the story was told in the crossovers, so I don't know if that would count or not.
@@jackwells8107 I’m trying to figure out if its way closer or way off. Doesn’t count either way since 2 issues is the minimum as seen with Armageddon 2001 but it is closer in that regard. On the other hand, the Power Pack don’t even appear in it.
@@orangeblaster500 I knew they did have a crossover issue. Good point about the Armageddon though. That actually means that Unity would count, but I guess it's take a Patreon request to get him to do it, since Linkara said he'll only do Marvel or DC events.
This comic was almost worth it for some of the Beyonder's near memetic dialogue in the first few issues and that one bit midway through where all the heroes just fucking bumrush the Beyonder and beat the shit out of him. That was hilarious.
The experience of reading this comic is a unique and possibly unprecedented combination of sensory inputs I will generously describe as "batshit insane" and "so mind-numbing I want to stick a pencil through both of my eyes just to feel something"
15:14 In answer to this, I fully agree with this suspicion. Cadwall is apparently one big caricature of Steve Gerber. That whole bit about him getting revenge on his editors is probably in reference to Gerber's status as a writer who was also his own editor, and thus had continuous deadline issues. Plus the whole thing with him trying to get the rights to Howard the Duck that followed this. So it's an in-joke that no one reading the comic will get, at a colleague's expense.
Fun Fact: ThunderSword recently appeared in the Captian Marvel tie-in to Civil war 2. Where he gets his ass beat because Ulysses had a vision of him becoming Thunder sword again
That sounds like the funniest thing that Ullyses could have done, honestly. Though my question: did he actually become Thunder Sword again, or did a bunch of super-powered cops actually just beat up a disgruntled script writer because the system told them to?
It's hysterical that the Moon Girl animated series essentially condensed this down to four or five episodes spread across two seasons AND made the Beyonder actually sympathetic in the process while having an infintely more interesting design. It's amazing what's possible when you dont waste NINE ISSUES going in fucking circles
I have to presume the beyonder turned the desk into apples because molecule man turned something into an apple? And the beyonder is basically copying his actions and suggestions to try to gain the same level of inner peace?
Another chapter in Jim Shooter's recurring obsession with persecuted deities. Whether they're called Korvac, the Beyonder, Solar, or Erica Pierce, the story's always the same: "trust the person with absolute power, they're really doing the best they can." . . .but this one has Spidey potty training the Almighty.
I dont think it's about trust so much as it's about a wierd cross between deifying man and humanizing god.....just.....like......you're witnessing in real time an infinite being evolve itself to be slightly less autistic with each cosmic failure, but it learns how to exist so incrementally slowly it just proves that phenomenal cosmic powers work about as well for figuring out the meaning of life as being a bacteria. Life seems to come really close to almost sort of having a meaning, the Beyonder is about to learn how to be a hero or something.......but not quite. The heroes and the Beyonder are both wrong about basically everything and its a fever dream of absurd accident. The only thing I can say is that it's disturbing coming across a Secret Wars II review at age 35 and it feels more accurate to life than Spider-Man does. Like simply put, people don't more than what's portrayed here. You might think you're smarter than these characters but when you notice yourself, people around you, and the world around you being a lot more like the Beyonder than Peter Parker, it really makes you wonder. It's like we had a life lesson to share, threw it into a blender, and, uhhhh we still have the pieces? He's not learning. Or he's not learning very quickly, while a lot of people get hurt and traumatized around him. He's not evil or selfish, he's just a child with too much power. He is however dangerous.
The Korvac story suffered from the intended follow-up story to it getting delayed until Shooter got back on the book, where Moondragon who was the most weepy over the Avengers bullying the poor god sets herself up as god of some planet to fix their society and makes a mess of it. Moondragon was kind of a terrible person at the time so we weren't meant to take her summation on the Korvac Saga as gospel. I do think it's fair to say that Shooter was fascinated by the theme of people with godlike powers who are dangerous because of human desires. Making the Beyonder who desired to know desire the platonic ideal of that. Also making Secret Wars I an exploration of it when Doom gained infinite power and was supposedly all cosmically chill but still blew up people for daring to oppose him.
@@bocajboxcar8147 Yeah, Moondragon fascinates me with what a shitty person she is despite being one of the good guys. This is something I’ll have more to say about when Linkara uploads the review for infinity Crusade. Mostly because I am convinced she’s using her mind powers to keep some of the. “ converted” blood thirsty. At least characters who normally don’t act like that.
@@alexdawson4571 INFINITY CRUSADE is. . .well, you can tell Jim Starlin's over something when he's sending it up, and there's a lot of parody stuff in an allegedly "serious" story. There's a lot of grist in the mill looking over Moondragon's run post-New Defenders resurrection and seeing how she's handled.
First off awesome new Event comics month intro, second. Are we sure this isn't a comedy because the Beyonder's antics combined with the artwork is just hilarious.
The idea of erasing the concept of death is extremely fascinating, but also kinda horrifying- Like, for most life it's probably a good thing, but for people who are say, on a boat that capsizes in the middle of the ocean, and are unfortunate enough to go down with the ship, suddenly there's a bunch of people are the bottom of the ocean that gotta find a way back up, or are potentially just stuck under some debris and can't get out, so they'd just be sitting there until someone finds them who can get them out, if that even happens at all. Now thankfully this is the Marvel Universe, so the odds of that happening are less than they would be in ours. And it's entirely possible that the Beyonder could account for these scenarios somehow, or could adjust things when these scenarios arrive so that people wouldn't be forced to just go insane when stuck in a situation where there's no way out. Either way, I completely agree that it's something worth exploring, discussing, and not just... tossing aside and moving onto the next thing. This could've been the whole second act, and maybe it would've been if it hadn't been so rushed. Like there's a couple of good ideas here, but instead of picking a few and focusing on them, they just decided to do all of them and cut half of them out for tie-ins Maybe I'd think differently if I actually read the book myself, but I'm pretty sure I tried that before and I dropped it before finishing the first issue because ADHD and sluggish pacing do not mix
I was both looking forward to and simultaneously dreading this video. I was the writer in charge of all the Beyonder-related stuff for the last big run of Official Handbooks and am probably the event's biggest (only?) fan. You have to understand, while I dabbled in comics a bit, I only really started getting into buying comics when I was 9 and this series started maybe 3-4 months into that decades-lasting hobby. It and its spin-offs helped introduce me to so much of the MU at the time and I've held a deep fondness for it since. Is it good? Heaven's no. But it was magic to me during the year it was published. - - - A couple of quick notes: A romance between Beyonder and Tabitha as suggested would not have been a good idea as it's stated in the book she's thirteen. Also, regarding 'Dave Shooter' - I'm the one that gave him that name officially. With the Handbooks, it's general practice on "regular" people in the MU who haven't been seen in years and likely won't be to be given names in the HBs (a practice going back to the originals). We generally contact the writers/artists for suggestions first and if that isn't doable, we give them editorially-approved full names. One general practice was to give these minor characters the last names of their creators and I chose to do so with Dave. Seemed fitting in a few ways I don't want to go into here. BTW, in the same Handbook bio, I was given editorial approval to toss Bendis' "Inhumans" crap in the "not real" bin.
Like I said in the review - have Tabitha be an ADULT since, yeah, squicky to think of a romance otherwise. XD Otherwise, fascinating stuff and thanks for commenting!
Ok...HUGE props to the animator for that intro, it's on the level of the opening credits for the actual DC/WB made credits for the animated Crisis movies that came out this year! Excellent job!
I can't deny, I'm EXACTLY the target audience for this kind of story, at least in theory. I'm always a fan of seeing the world through the eyes of a god-like being. In particular, the point about the Beyonder getting frustrated over the answer about mortality being /why/ life is valuable seems like a clever point, especially from the POV of something like him. Shame about the poor execution, though. I feel like this could have been marginally less annoying had they called it anything else besides "Secret Wars II." It gives you the wrong expectation. I never would guess in a million years this was what a sequel to Secret Wars would have been.
My pitch for Secret Wars II is actually to take a subplot from the Infinity War comic, having the heroes fight evil versions of themselves, while the villains fight good versions of themselves. Have the plot be that the Beyonder gets curious about the idea of "good vs evil" and wants to see how the heroes and villains would do against their polar opposite sides, which means having them face off on another Battleworld again. And it wouldn't just entirely be fight sequences for the sake of it, I would dive deep into the characters and having them discuss what they could have been if they had not experienced such events in their lives that helped make them who they are. Like Matt Murdock facing an evil version of himself who had his eyesight but made the wrong decisions. Or Peter Parker facing a version of himself who never lost Uncle Ben but had misused his powers for personal gain. Or even villains who face their counterparts who lived better lives or made different choices despite the circumstances they faced, making them question their own motivations. It's a way to up the stakes and make things more personal for the characters.
Fun fact: in Spain, when they brought Marvel back, they published both events together along with every tie-in as its own series. This included issues from collections that would never be translated into Spanish from Marvel, like Dazzler and the Heroes for Hire. So when my parents bought me those comics, I got to know so much about the Marvel universe without ever reading anything else than spiderman and the X-Men. The collection also included the New Mutants tie-in, which was one of the most frightening and upsetting issues I've ever read in my entire life.
This felt more like a origin story/prequel for the Beyonder... Look a God like entity comes to our dimension for the first time,tries to understand humanity, goes nuts and then creates the original Secret wars as a advanced experiment
Gotta love how the Beyonder is cool with changing their gender but only so they can pursue straight relationships with both men and women. Apparently the creators thought gender swapping was less out there and taboo than same sex relationships. Man how times have changed.
The 1987 New Universe line was what was created by the death of the Beyond at the End of Secret Wars II. There is a type of comic book buyer that has a completist mind set. Think this was Marvel's first test to see how far they could go with ty-ins to cash in on completist or deny sales to D.C. at that time.
If Marvel can make Molecule Man somehow responsible for the existence of Kang the Conqueror they'd have turned two of their time loops into a Time Disney Logo. Which seems fitting.
As someone who learns the contents of these events solely through the AT4W reviews, I was quite shocked and baffled by this event. With so many perplexing decisions, I couldn't help but to think "What were they thinking?!" in the classic AVGN-style. If you didn't mention that it was the same writer who was also EiC at the time, I would've guessed this to be a rushjob forced upon a C-tier Marvel writer to make some quick cash.
For context doc, he activated Rachel Summer's full power with a boop on her forehead, then summoned a group of future sentinels, the kind that killed the X-men in her timeline, into being and forced her to face them down. Hell, just think about how many people he harmed, inconvenienced to straight up killed throughout the story because he has no real understanding of the consequences of his own actions. In every sense of the word, he's like that kid from the Twilight Zone who vanished the whole world outside of his own small town and kept sending people to the cornfield because they pissed him off.
Considering that according to the current Venom comic, obtaining a symbiote was the beginning of Peter's ascent to the status of one of the main gods of the cosmos, the King in Black (the path from which he was knocked down), I would say that this is a very significant prize.
I remember reading "The Unofficial History of the Marvel Universe" which covered the level of "Meta" in this story. Much like Marville was! You hit on a lot of the points without even knowing the horrible backstory they share!
You forgot the most recent and currently used retcon, The Beyonders are a God like species from outside the Multiverse and he's a baby Beyonder who was pulled to the Marvel Universe by Molecule Man's creation in what was essentially a premature birth.
Ya, they retconned the whole Mutant/Inhuman thing to the Beyonder just fucking around. The Mutant/Inhuman thing was dumb anyway because we already had a mix of the two by then and there be no reason for one to be more powerful than the celestials.
Also this comic reminds me of the conversations of what people would do with functional immortality/respawning mechanics... and the answer is basically "GTA 5 online multiplayer but in real life". Leaping off of buildings just to see if you can, using "respawning" as a shortcut, etc.
The Beyonder: Who should I pick as my oshi: Gawr Gura or Pekora Usada? Wolverine: You're askin' the wrong guy, bub. Go ask Deadpool. The Beyonder: OK! [Disappears] *Later...* The Beyonder: [Appears] So, who should I pick as my- Deadpool: Suisei, duh!
Secret Wars II is one of those comic events that made me ask Why. I legit don’t know why… any of this… even Genesis, maybe DC’s actual worst event, I understood was made. Why was Secret Wars II… THIS?!
Good summation. This made me hate Event Comics from the get-go (with how the tie-ins threw off the series I actually cared about and all). Just out of curiosity, why do think Genesis is the worst? I agree it sucks, but to me it was mostly a non-entity when it came to Event Comics.
The story of Marvel editorial pushing against SECRET WARS II in MARVEL: THE UNTOLD STORY is a much more accurate Secret War than what's in the actual comic.
you know, I think there's a problem with the beyonder's logic. he's asking humans! Like, yeah ask humans about stuff, but aside from his little trip into space he acts like humans are the only species, or the only ones that matter. He could have gone to the eternals, the Olympian gods, the Asgardians, vampires, the literal afterlives. If he's so unsatisfied with everyone circling back to mortality, stop asking the mortal. The gods, undead and monsters all have desires too and are effectively immortal for the most part so go ask them. Imagen him talking to dracula about desire and dracula gives him a completely different answer because he's not limited by a human life, but was human and became something greater as a vampire king. effectively the reverse of the beyonder. he could talk to the MANY gods of the marvel universe big and small from earth gods like odin and zeus to the celestials and even potentially the one above all. That could have been more interesting.
My birthday was yesterday, so I will accept this as a late gift~ Beyonder's lucky he didn't try any of this in the DC universe, where his difficulty in understanding desire could've led him to the Endless of the same name~
This is the Intro Maker of ECM5, everybody! I need to clarify a few things. I was gonna wait until my Quarterly Update on my channel to explain things, but I say it here. It doesn't matter if this gets a highlighted post or not.
Firstly, no. Lewis is not paying me since I do all this for free. I would rather get tips for the tip jar.
Secondly, if you saw in the ending credits, yes I've been having a rough time since the end of June of this year. First my computer got hacked totally compromising my Discord Account. I do have another one that is a bit older. The hack happened the same day my Grandmother passed away. No job, no commissions, no paid musical requests, barely any money, my computer getting hacked, and my Grandmothers' passing, it was enough to break me down. One bad day, as the Joker would say. I thought for sure I had to get a new computer. Thankfully, it didn't come to it and I was able to thwart the hacker before he/she did any real damage to both me and my family members. So I have been pretty low as of late. I will have to get a new computer at some point, but I don't have the funds.
There is some good news, I'm gonna be taking care of my Late Grandmother's house until the Spring. With that, I can concentrate on getting my projects done and start some new ones without my father breathing down my neck (He probably thinks that what I do and what I want to do is a waste of time). However, I would like to have this house permanently, but can I really do that even with my finances? Only time will tell. But seeing my work being used and people complimenting me on my work, wheather it would be AT4W or my own, it's enough to bring me back to the land of the living. So stay tuned for more Logos and Intro, and as always, the best has yet to come. Thank you all.
So sorry to hear your going through that and I hope things become better for you.
That sequence kicked ass, good work
You should be paid for your work, though.
Just subscribed to your channel because that intro shows you have talent.
Trauma trauma trauma (said in a Congo line like tone)
My pitch for Secret Wars II Abridged:
*Beyonder:* _[Appears]_ WHAT IS THE MEANING OF EXISTENCE?
*Every Single Marvel Character:* F*** if we know!
*Beyonder:* THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME! _[Disappears]_
I'd buy that book.
Get on it LittleKuriboh!
"He's asking questions! He's too powerful! Get him!"
"And they all lived...
Not happily ever after, but good enough."
The crazy thing about this event isn’t the Beyonder himself…but that this event played a small part in establishing a VERY VERY IMPORTANT part of The Hulk’s mythos in a tie in.
I’m not kidding, the Secret Wars 2 tie in of The Incredible Hulk delved deeply into the trauma Bruce had with his father as a kid, where he established the Savage Hulk persona. Some reading lists for Hulk as a character mark this tie in as crucial reading for the character.
…adjacent to an event where the Beyond learns what food and pee is.
Wow. Just. Wow
Similarly how the first introduced Venom to Spider-man.
The entire Secret Wars series of events feels like it's out of order. This is supposed to be the first secret wars while the sequel SHOULD be the epic, yet tragic battle where The Beyonder has learned what it means to be human, and his only solution was to host a tournament of power with the earth's mightiest heroes he met along the way, from Spider-Man to the Avengers. He creates Battleworld as the direct result of this ephiphany, and forces the heroes to fight only for his ego to be his undoing.
is kinda funny how both hulk and spider-man (and venom by default) got new addition to their mythos that would define the character and their mythology one way or another forever, in comics related to the beyonder.
hulk got the tie in to secret wars 2 where it explores the psych of bruce banner
spider-man would get the black costume symbiote (do i really need to say why this was important for venom?)
Makes sense. It was around the time Hulk and Banner got split, emerged, and the grey Hulk storyline began.
The writer who got those superpowers was meant to mock Steve Gerber, creator of Howard the Duck who got into a heated legal battle with Marvel over the character.
It’s always the duck
@@WhaleManMan I think it's a further sign of the aimlessness of the entire story. Like Todd in the Shadows said, this kind of in-joke is often a last resort of a creator who has no other ideas.
That makes sense. Sounded about as edgy and whiny as Gerber could be. Just as a note, I don't hate Gerber and actually like his work on some series, but he could come across as really edgy, whiny and misanthropic at times.
@@lexofexcel886 That was the Liz Phair episode of Trainwreckords. Which is fitting since that episode was just a nonsensical as this.
Yuuuuup. Shooter used comics to address his issues and gripes, and here’s it’s really obvious.
The Beyonder has clearly never tried to level up a Magikarp if he thinks you can't get experience from observing.
Or a Cosmog
lol indeed
Lmao
Frank Beyond sounds like a comic character that investigates alien abductions and cryptid sightings
That sounds like a comic I might actually read. Maybe. Probably not, in all honesty.
Sounds like a 40s pulp Kolchak. I'd read it
His catch phrase: "Frank Be On Da Case!"
"It is frankly beyond explaining"
Frank Beyond's Holistic Detective Agency?
I feel like there was a very obvious solution to save this premise: Have Doom's actions from Secret Wars be the catalyst for The Beyonder wanting to examine humanity.
The whole reason Doom got the opportunity he did to take his powers stemmed from The Beyonder's curiosity as to why Doom did what he did, and you could make up some explanation that retaking his powers from Doom messed with his mental state.
If the MCU tries adapting the Beyonder, that’s the essential motivation for it!
@@daelen.cclark Buuuuuut with our luck, they're gonna break their bones trying to adapt word for word the Beyonder in this for "comedy"
@romdan7136 The MCU's done a pretty good job at adapting unpopular stories and making them work. The only adaptation of that type they dropped the ball on was Secret Invasion, and one of the problems with that series is it's drier than dust.
@@murlocaggrob2192besides Civil War what’s stories have they adapted that were unpopular
@@skibot9974 I was gonna say "Demon in a Bottle", but that might not count.
I love how rather than give the Beyonder the voice of a godlike being,
His voice is of a crazy man with no volume control.
Like the aliens from Galaxy Quest if they suffered a concussion
Then you wil love the version of The Beyond from the Moon Girl animated series
Only the Steven Weber version from Avengers Assemble comes close to capturing this comic’s take on the Beyonder
So it’s basically “A Stranger in a Strange Land” then it remembers that it’s a superhero comic in the last two issues
I mean... Even then I feel like this story is better than Stranger in a Strange Land primarily on the fact there's no s*x cult. Still, not a high bar, and this event was pretty dull overall...
Ok, Beyonder bonking omnipotence into people is so stupid it is hilarious
Not enough sex or saying gay just need to have straight sex for it to be Stranger in a Strange Land
@JennyBlaze253 also the Beyonder wasn't secretly an archangel.
@@JennyBlaze253 don't forget the lack of eating people being ok
I'm glad "Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur" didn't go this route with The Beyonder. Not even Lawrence Fishburne could make some of this dialogue work.
Thankfully, that show was my first exposure to The Beyonder, instead of this nonsense!
I completely agree
It should be one of the science based education "Moon Girl's Lab" shorts. You know, to explain the digestive system.
I dunno, I could listen to Laurence Fishburne yelling "why is clothing" at a small child.
Upvote for Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur, that show is so good
The Beyonder: "I AM NOW, MY OWN SON!"
Immortus: "Been there man, ask Ms. Marvel. No wait, DON'T!"
Maybe the reason Cap wore his outfit was because he's getting a superhero discount for his flight
Surely, as a superhero and as a veteran, he’d at least board planes early
Probably to only way to get to keep his shield as Carry On. Don't want the airline to lose it like his old rectangular one
I feel like superheroes should have to pay MORE since you're almost invariably not getting that plane back in one piece
But technically he would also get the senior citizen discount
@mitkitty However, they can also provide free/discount security. I could see a Heroes for Hire issue where they try to get somewhere while preventing criminal plots with the understanding that any damages get added to their fare.
Beyonder: "Spider-Man taught me an important lesson. That with great water comes a great need to pee."
Also, wouldn't it be funny if the Beyonder undid the deal with Mephisto to thank Peter for teaching him how to pee?
Also also, I spotted Clark Kent on a TV in Issue #7.
Lastly, does the ending mean that Molecule Man created the New Universe/Kickers Incorporated?
reminds me of when Mocule man brought miles and his supporting cast to 616 for giving him a cheeseburger.
Yes, the idea was Secret Wars would lead to the creation of the New Universe. It even has a "white event" at the ending but that was pretty downplayed.
The best tie in to secret wars II where the new mutants issues that came afterwards, dealing with the depression and trauma that the team suffered after having g their existence snuffed out and toyed with by the beyonder. It showed how their new headmaster was ill equipped to deal with it, forcing him to turn to Emma Frost in desperation. Even she couldn’t suppress the trauma telepathically and in the end she and magneto have to slowly help them work through it with therapy. It was a rare example of this kind of thing not being hand waved away and the first time we see Emma as anything more than a conniving villain.
The opening to this Event Comics month DID NOT need to go that hard!
Definitely need that to be a separate video
You wait until my next one.
I call it the best intro
This events feels like a bad 1st draft of the sandman. An omnipotent being interacting with mortal beings to try and understand aspects of existence. A ruler of hell making plans to destroy the main character. The main character falling in love with mortals, and the relationships ending because they can't relate to him. The main character needing to reborn in order to reconcile with the change that they have gone through. I'm not saying the sandman is a ripoff or anything and i'm probably reading way too much into it, but i just thought these connections were weird. Great review as always.
I think one reason a lot of people went with Contest of Champions is because they recognized the name from the mobile game, and didn’t think much further than that. Not saying the story is bad (I haven’t read it) that’s just usually how things go
Well, and also the issue with the ending of the original comic. . .
It was also a cool SHS episode where Nighthawk was voiced by Adam West
Wasn't it adapted into an episode of Dexter's Lab?
Like a short with Dial M for Monkey.
Whoever did the intro should be paid extra. It did not need to go that hard.
I did it on my own free will.
@@zeroryoko999and we thank you for it
The weirdest thing is that all of the stuff involving The Beyonder wanting to discover love with Sharon, Dazzler, & Boom Boom... could have all just been done with Toots, who already came to visibly care for "Frank", thanked him for inspiring her to do something different with her life, and would have made for a perfect person for The Beyonder to experience love with. Toots could have done more or less everything that Dazzler & Boom Boom did with Beyonder, and even Sharon's whole suicide bit could have been done with Toots instead (as unneeded as it was).
Just feels like Jim Shooter wanted to have Beyonder fall in love with two superheroines (& an utterly random woman) to pad out the event, instead of simply continuing with what was already an established supporting character in Toots. Could have removed a couple of issues from the length, too!
I love the idea that Toots would really fell in love for the Beyonder (and for the sake of streamlining the story give her the elments of dazzler's and boom boom's storylines), but on the other hand I love the idea that toots was "the one that got away".
that even beyonder knows she could have been the one, but it is afraid that their relationship would go south just like it did with boom boom or dazzler.
that he is so afraid it could go bad, that he doesn't even want to keep in touch with her or become her friend. that he doesn't even want to use his powers to see a future where they can work. he is that afraid. he prefers to just treasure the happiness she got from him, even if he is no longer part of it
maybe even give him that moment with loki (al ewing's version) and how he can relate to that feeling. loki probably mentioning his friendship with verity and how he even saved her from the destruction of the multiverse (and finally say what happened to her)
Oh hey. The only time Marvel used Circuit Breaker for anything ever
They could easily turn her into an anti-hero with her hating sentinels and Ultron.
@@jaredziemer775 That's a great idea to move her away from Transformers. Or maybe Hasbro should do away with her superhero identity and user her civilian name
I’d say make her a Death’s Head antagonist. He’s trying to do a job and this lunatic’s chasing him for a vendetta he doesn’t care about
I was just thinking she could easily be slid in to. Marvel without bringing up the Transformers. Have her injury be caused by a sentinel or an Ultron or any number of robots that exist in Marvel. And have her acting as a villain against someone that like a vision or any of the other robotic superheroes that exist. And if done right she could be the kind of character where she flips between hero and villain vendetta.
Like maybe assisting the X-Men because she hates Sentinels even though she doesn't give a crap or even hates mutants.
@@kylepeters8690 I hope she doesn't hate mutants, the whole point is that she's a sympathetic villain
I like Vinnie. Dude wasn't in the story long but I like the idea that a crime boss gets access to this unimaginable power, but he actually shows RESTRAINT and doesn't have the Beyonder try to make him king of the world or something. He instead increases his profits without crashing the market, takes care of his employees by curing any injuries or illness they have (including his wife and son), and even prevents him from cheating to win at gambling since he understands the risk of losing is what makes it engaging and the payout better. And at the end HE'S the one who sends the Beyonder off saying he doesn't have anything else he could possibly teach him. You know that if the KINGPIN had met the Beyonder he'd have abused his powers to their fullest extent for as long as possible.
Still mess up vinne treated his son’s Dylexia like it was some disease
@@maysun3752 This was the 80's.
The assailant that killed the Hate Monger was a Scourge of the Underworld, part of another storyline going on in the 80s Marvel comics where minor Supervillains got killed off my a disguised gunmen who'd then shout Justice is Served.
The Hate Monger was the third victim (after She Hulk villain The Enforce and classic Fantastic Four villain Miracle Man) and there's a lot of evidence to suggest that it was a rogue Scourge Agent working for the Red Skull who performed the hit.
Yes I literally came into the comments to say this, I'm a bit of a nerd!
How did the Punisher take someone stealing his schtick, and doing it better than him?
@@louisduarte8763 as far as I know they never crossed paths, though Captain America did initially suspect The Punisher of the killings after he prevented the murder of The Constrictor.
His most infamous killing though was the Bar With No Name Massacre, where he killed 17 supervillains (one survived but died years later) during a meeting to discuss the threat, namely:
Commander Kraken (which might be the most wasted cool villain name ever if you ask me), Hellrazor, Rapier (a one shot Spider Man villain that contradicted the established backstory for Silvermane so much that it got ignored in the mobster’s next appearance) Cheetah (animal themed Supervillain who looked nothing like a cheetah) Jaguar, Steeplejack, Letha, The Vamp, Turner D. Century (yes, really), Firebrand (retired at that point) Mind-Wave (one shot Daredevil villain created as a foe for Uri Geller, yes, really), Shellshock, Cyclone (minor Spider-Man foe from France), The Ringer (the one survivor), Mirage (another minor Spider-Man foe notable for debuting in the marriage of Ned Leeds and Betty Brant issue and being Mysterio at home), Bird-Man II (one of the Ani-Men who attacked Daredevil), The Grappler (minor She-Hulk foe) and The Hijacker.
A good chunk of the villains stayed dead though a few were brought back to fight The Punisher with predictable results
And to quote Peter himself in Mighty Avengers "Oh God why did I teach him to pee?"
I still think that "Peter parker meeting a deity like being, and teaching him how to pee" might be one of the most "peter parker" things that could happen to him
There’s a story there….does it involve Beyonder peeing in an inappropriate place?
The Iron Giant: What is death?
Short Circuit: Do I have self-determination?
NieR Automata: What is the point of out life?
Pinoccio: How do we define what It means to be human?
Secret War 2: Why is food?
This comic does remind me of Marville, in the sense that it needs to apologize to the molecules it wasted to exist.
Wasn't expecting Molecule Man and Volcana to be an absolute highlight this episode.
They’re strangely wholesome. A less violent variation of that new kiteman shoe with him and GG.
Oh thank Jack, I wasn't the only one thinking "This whole plot sounds weirdly similar to Marville to me. Does this sound weirdly similar to Marville to anyone else?"
Secret Wars, second cousin to Star Wars, distant cousin of Civil Wars.
Any relation to Infinity Wars?
@@louisduarte8763estranged half siblings 😃
Now, here's my question: is Spider-Man teaching the Beyonder to pee still less embarrassing than Lex Luthor's jar of Granny's Peach Tea?
Yes...Yes it is 🙂
Honestly, unironically love this story with how weirdly human and chaotic Beyonder development is while playing full potential of all his abilities. Honestly, it is refreshing considering most either try to do Doctor Manhattan apathetic ass or absolute perfect bean who is innocently childish with no real agency, while Beyonder has agency and is selfish, but at the same time developed sense of morality and empathy, while entire Marvel universe is on the ride.
I swear the special event ATFW intro titles are absolutely epic and well made.
Thank You.
Woo! Event Comics Month is always a good time
"And now... I am... my own son!"
... I still don't know how to react to that.
I honestly think this and New Universe were the reasons Jim Shooter was fired from Marvel. He wasn't just writer, but editor-in-chief, so he probably overruled a lot of people who tried to improve things (and I'm saying that as someone who likes Shooter personally and loves a ton of his work).
He was onboard as editor for at least another two years (he plotted the Wedding strip for Spider-Man), so I doubt it.
3:55 Secret Wars is basically a prototype of the Shonen Tournament Arc
Actually the prototype of that trope was sun wukong battling a majority of the important figures in journey to the west
@@gabrieldevoogel6225
Thus, the ever-expanding influence of journey to the west continues!
From being the inspiration to DragonBall and the general hero journey type that most people utilizes
@@gabrieldevoogel6225also Sports tournaments. We see something like Captain Tsubasa precede both Secret Wars and Dragon Ball's first Tenkaichi Budokai
@@PIKMINROCK1 well yeah, fair but I meant the trope, either way I can see where your correct from a certain POV
Wouldn't Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon be a modern predassesor to the Tournament Arc?
*Beyonder:* "Brown logs have excreted from my posterior! Why has this occurred?"
*Heroes(?):* "Oh, Beyonder! Hahahaha!"
The only thing I can remember from this series besides the one bit was a tie-in issue with Spider Man, where the government refuses to just have a gold building lying around. For whatever reason, the team they call in to dismantle the evidence is GI Joe, led by who is unmistakably Duke. And considering GI Joe was established as its own universe from Day 1, that’s just weird to have the Marvel version of Uncle Sugar call in the Joes.
Dear Zero, WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT BADASS TITLE SEQUENCE? HOLY SHIT THAT WAS AWESOME
Just another day of Insane Imagination at work. Thanks for the compliment.
@@zeroryoko999 😆You should trademark that
Nothing happens for 8 issues and then a dude kills a baby. WOW! SECRET WARS TWO!!
I'm a simple man, I see a Linkara video, I click on it.
I am also a simple man. I see a Linkara video, I hit the like button.
I was a simple boy ten years ago. I saw a Linkara video, so I hit subscribe.
Same.
Relatable
I too am extraordinarily simple.
Wait no
Honestly not only do i agree theres INSANE potential for a good story/discussion around the beyonder removing death, but also Dave becoming death. A death that was formerly human and thus knows about the pain death can bring, but still carrying out the act? I feel like there's something there- maybe he could even serve as a more human element to the conceptual beings
That little bit about Molecule Man realising that his girlfriend must love him for a reason, and thus finding his own self worth was honestly really sweet, I think that's the only bit of this whole story I actually enjoyed, the rest was a SLOG even with your witty commentary.
Also, classic Marvel event comic: the title is a lie. WHAT WAR? And it certainly isn't a secret!
“Why Is Clothing”, “Why Is Eating” I’ll Do You One Better, wHy iS GAmoRa!
I feel like this event can be better if it was re-ordered. Combine Dazzler's and Boom-Boom's sections together. Have the Beyonder do the organization thing first, THEN he takes the world after it fails and AFTER the Dazzler and Boom-Boom. Thunderblade can be made as a major villain; perhaps serving as an evil side of humanity while Dave serves as a good side. You can still have the comical and philosophical side, but with Mephisto and Thunderblade working together to have some action and add more conflict.
The fact this is the only major event to include the Power Pack makes me sad as one of their 5 fans.
They're in the Mutant Massacre and Fall of the Mutants and Inferno! And what's more major than Chris Claremont's Uncanny X-Men?
@@kinosmead I agree although both weren’t miniseries with tie-ins, going by Linkara’s definition. I don’t necessarily agree with it but that’s the reason I didn’t mention it.
@@orangeblaster500 I'm not sure if it would count or not, but they were involved in the Outlawed storyline a few years back. The thing is, there was only one issue of Outlawed, then the rest of the story was told in the crossovers, so I don't know if that would count or not.
@@jackwells8107 I’m trying to figure out if its way closer or way off. Doesn’t count either way since 2 issues is the minimum as seen with Armageddon 2001 but it is closer in that regard. On the other hand, the Power Pack don’t even appear in it.
@@orangeblaster500 I knew they did have a crossover issue. Good point about the Armageddon though. That actually means that Unity would count, but I guess it's take a Patreon request to get him to do it, since Linkara said he'll only do Marvel or DC events.
Secret wars 2015 is probably the best marvel event of the 21st century.
Beyonder: WHY ISNT THE DAZZLER MOVIE SOMETHING THAT EXSITS IN MORE THAN JUST CONCEPT FORM?!
It almost did - and it would've featured the Avengers fighting KISS.
@@repulser93 seriously though….i feel like at worst, it could have been an entertaining cult classic. Sorry it was not actually made ☹️
This comic was almost worth it for some of the Beyonder's near memetic dialogue in the first few issues and that one bit midway through where all the heroes just fucking bumrush the Beyonder and beat the shit out of him. That was hilarious.
The experience of reading this comic is a unique and possibly unprecedented combination of sensory inputs I will generously describe as "batshit insane" and "so mind-numbing I want to stick a pencil through both of my eyes just to feel something"
The review literally gave me a headache with how much it was going in circles. How the hell did this get nine issues
15:14 In answer to this, I fully agree with this suspicion. Cadwall is apparently one big caricature of Steve Gerber. That whole bit about him getting revenge on his editors is probably in reference to Gerber's status as a writer who was also his own editor, and thus had continuous deadline issues. Plus the whole thing with him trying to get the rights to Howard the Duck that followed this.
So it's an in-joke that no one reading the comic will get, at a colleague's expense.
Also, its written by Jim Shooter, not Jim Starlin, but I guess he just misspoke :D
Fun Fact: ThunderSword recently appeared in the Captian Marvel tie-in to Civil war 2. Where he gets his ass beat because Ulysses had a vision of him becoming Thunder sword again
That sounds like the funniest thing that Ullyses could have done, honestly. Though my question: did he actually become Thunder Sword again, or did a bunch of super-powered cops actually just beat up a disgruntled script writer because the system told them to?
@@goranisacson2502 All I remember was Carol saying that Ulysses had a vision about it
It's hysterical that the Moon Girl animated series essentially condensed this down to four or five episodes spread across two seasons AND made the Beyonder actually sympathetic in the process while having an infintely more interesting design. It's amazing what's possible when you dont waste NINE ISSUES going in fucking circles
NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL OPENING TITLES
This events comics intro is my favorite of the intros so far, absolutely gorgeous work!
Thank You.
coming back to the show just in time to see spiderman train for fatherhood with potty training
The real tagline for this event should be "IN A TIE-IN ISSUE!"
I have to presume the beyonder turned the desk into apples because molecule man turned something into an apple? And the beyonder is basically copying his actions and suggestions to try to gain the same level of inner peace?
Another chapter in Jim Shooter's recurring obsession with persecuted deities. Whether they're called Korvac, the Beyonder, Solar, or Erica Pierce, the story's always the same: "trust the person with absolute power, they're really doing the best they can."
. . .but this one has Spidey potty training the Almighty.
@@fangjokerLS Trye, but at least Korvac’s story was engaging. At least I think so.
I dont think it's about trust so much as it's about a wierd cross between deifying man and humanizing god.....just.....like......you're witnessing in real time an infinite being evolve itself to be slightly less autistic with each cosmic failure, but it learns how to exist so incrementally slowly it just proves that phenomenal cosmic powers work about as well for figuring out the meaning of life as being a bacteria. Life seems to come really close to almost sort of having a meaning, the Beyonder is about to learn how to be a hero or something.......but not quite. The heroes and the Beyonder are both wrong about basically everything and its a fever dream of absurd accident.
The only thing I can say is that it's disturbing coming across a Secret Wars II review at age 35 and it feels more accurate to life than Spider-Man does. Like simply put, people don't more than what's portrayed here.
You might think you're smarter than these characters but when you notice yourself, people around you, and the world around you being a lot more like the Beyonder than Peter Parker, it really makes you wonder.
It's like we had a life lesson to share, threw it into a blender, and, uhhhh we still have the pieces?
He's not learning. Or he's not learning very quickly, while a lot of people get hurt and traumatized around him. He's not evil or selfish, he's just a child with too much power. He is however dangerous.
The Korvac story suffered from the intended follow-up story to it getting delayed until Shooter got back on the book, where Moondragon who was the most weepy over the Avengers bullying the poor god sets herself up as god of some planet to fix their society and makes a mess of it. Moondragon was kind of a terrible person at the time so we weren't meant to take her summation on the Korvac Saga as gospel.
I do think it's fair to say that Shooter was fascinated by the theme of people with godlike powers who are dangerous because of human desires. Making the Beyonder who desired to know desire the platonic ideal of that. Also making Secret Wars I an exploration of it when Doom gained infinite power and was supposedly all cosmically chill but still blew up people for daring to oppose him.
@@bocajboxcar8147 Yeah, Moondragon fascinates me with what a shitty person she is despite being one of the good guys. This is something I’ll have more to say about when Linkara uploads the review for infinity Crusade. Mostly because I am convinced she’s using her mind powers to keep some of the. “ converted” blood thirsty. At least characters who normally don’t act like that.
@@alexdawson4571 INFINITY CRUSADE is. . .well, you can tell Jim Starlin's over something when he's sending it up, and there's a lot of parody stuff in an allegedly "serious" story.
There's a lot of grist in the mill looking over Moondragon's run post-New Defenders resurrection and seeing how she's handled.
It’s amazing how they took arguably one of the most exciting events of all time and followed it up with one of the dullest.
Kind of crazy intro. One of the best so far.
First off awesome new Event comics month intro, second. Are we sure this isn't a comedy because the Beyonder's antics combined with the artwork is just hilarious.
The idea of erasing the concept of death is extremely fascinating, but also kinda horrifying-
Like, for most life it's probably a good thing, but for people who are say, on a boat that capsizes in the middle of the ocean, and are unfortunate enough to go down with the ship, suddenly there's a bunch of people are the bottom of the ocean that gotta find a way back up, or are potentially just stuck under some debris and can't get out, so they'd just be sitting there until someone finds them who can get them out, if that even happens at all.
Now thankfully this is the Marvel Universe, so the odds of that happening are less than they would be in ours. And it's entirely possible that the Beyonder could account for these scenarios somehow, or could adjust things when these scenarios arrive so that people wouldn't be forced to just go insane when stuck in a situation where there's no way out.
Either way, I completely agree that it's something worth exploring, discussing, and not just... tossing aside and moving onto the next thing. This could've been the whole second act, and maybe it would've been if it hadn't been so rushed. Like there's a couple of good ideas here, but instead of picking a few and focusing on them, they just decided to do all of them and cut half of them out for tie-ins
Maybe I'd think differently if I actually read the book myself, but I'm pretty sure I tried that before and I dropped it before finishing the first issue because ADHD and sluggish pacing do not mix
I was both looking forward to and simultaneously dreading this video. I was the writer in charge of all the Beyonder-related stuff for the last big run of Official Handbooks and am probably the event's biggest (only?) fan. You have to understand, while I dabbled in comics a bit, I only really started getting into buying comics when I was 9 and this series started maybe 3-4 months into that decades-lasting hobby. It and its spin-offs helped introduce me to so much of the MU at the time and I've held a deep fondness for it since. Is it good? Heaven's no. But it was magic to me during the year it was published. - - - A couple of quick notes: A romance between Beyonder and Tabitha as suggested would not have been a good idea as it's stated in the book she's thirteen. Also, regarding 'Dave Shooter' - I'm the one that gave him that name officially. With the Handbooks, it's general practice on "regular" people in the MU who haven't been seen in years and likely won't be to be given names in the HBs (a practice going back to the originals). We generally contact the writers/artists for suggestions first and if that isn't doable, we give them editorially-approved full names. One general practice was to give these minor characters the last names of their creators and I chose to do so with Dave. Seemed fitting in a few ways I don't want to go into here. BTW, in the same Handbook bio, I was given editorial approval to toss Bendis' "Inhumans" crap in the "not real" bin.
Like I said in the review - have Tabitha be an ADULT since, yeah, squicky to think of a romance otherwise. XD
Otherwise, fascinating stuff and thanks for commenting!
18:48 - “…the Champion of Lies, Injustice, and the American Decay!” - huh, who knew Captain America was actually Bizzaro…
😜
Ok...HUGE props to the animator for that intro, it's on the level of the opening credits for the actual DC/WB made credits for the animated Crisis movies that came out this year! Excellent job!
I can't deny, I'm EXACTLY the target audience for this kind of story, at least in theory. I'm always a fan of seeing the world through the eyes of a god-like being. In particular, the point about the Beyonder getting frustrated over the answer about mortality being /why/ life is valuable seems like a clever point, especially from the POV of something like him.
Shame about the poor execution, though. I feel like this could have been marginally less annoying had they called it anything else besides "Secret Wars II." It gives you the wrong expectation. I never would guess in a million years this was what a sequel to Secret Wars would have been.
My pitch for Secret Wars II is actually to take a subplot from the Infinity War comic, having the heroes fight evil versions of themselves, while the villains fight good versions of themselves.
Have the plot be that the Beyonder gets curious about the idea of "good vs evil" and wants to see how the heroes and villains would do against their polar opposite sides, which means having them face off on another Battleworld again. And it wouldn't just entirely be fight sequences for the sake of it, I would dive deep into the characters and having them discuss what they could have been if they had not experienced such events in their lives that helped make them who they are.
Like Matt Murdock facing an evil version of himself who had his eyesight but made the wrong decisions. Or Peter Parker facing a version of himself who never lost Uncle Ben but had misused his powers for personal gain. Or even villains who face their counterparts who lived better lives or made different choices despite the circumstances they faced, making them question their own motivations. It's a way to up the stakes and make things more personal for the characters.
All the props for that opening sequence. That totally kicks ass and references all the DC and Marvel events you've reviewed.
Thank you.
@@zeroryoko999 you're absolutely welcome.
now I like the ideia that on top of all the spiderman stuff, Peter also has to deal with godly beings always trying to use his bathroom
Secret Crusade of the Dark Convergence is so metal, I love it.
Also that intro is goddamn amazing
Fun fact: in Spain, when they brought Marvel back, they published both events together along with every tie-in as its own series. This included issues from collections that would never be translated into Spanish from Marvel, like Dazzler and the Heroes for Hire. So when my parents bought me those comics, I got to know so much about the Marvel universe without ever reading anything else than spiderman and the X-Men. The collection also included the New Mutants tie-in, which was one of the most frightening and upsetting issues I've ever read in my entire life.
This felt more like a origin story/prequel for the Beyonder...
Look a God like entity comes to our dimension for the first time,tries to understand humanity, goes nuts and then creates the original Secret wars as a advanced experiment
90 mins, holy crap! This is a hell of a treat.
Perfect thumbnail, exactly what i needed
Gotta love how the Beyonder is cool with changing their gender but only so they can pursue straight relationships with both men and women. Apparently the creators thought gender swapping was less out there and taboo than same sex relationships. Man how times have changed.
THE COSMIC CUBE CAN DO ANYTHING!
Can it make a follow-up to Secret Wars that doesn't suck?
The 1987 New Universe line was what was created by the death of the Beyond at the End of Secret Wars II. There is a type of comic book buyer that has a completist mind set. Think this was Marvel's first test to see how far they could go with ty-ins to cash in on completist or deny sales to D.C. at that time.
For one of my birthdays, my dad got me the whole runs of Secret Wars One AND Two. Great gifts.
If Marvel can make Molecule Man somehow responsible for the existence of Kang the Conqueror they'd have turned two of their time loops into a Time Disney Logo. Which seems fitting.
As someone who learns the contents of these events solely through the AT4W reviews, I was quite shocked and baffled by this event. With so many perplexing decisions, I couldn't help but to think "What were they thinking?!" in the classic AVGN-style. If you didn't mention that it was the same writer who was also EiC at the time, I would've guessed this to be a rushjob forced upon a C-tier Marvel writer to make some quick cash.
For context doc, he activated Rachel Summer's full power with a boop on her forehead, then summoned a group of future sentinels, the kind that killed the X-men in her timeline, into being and forced her to face them down. Hell, just think about how many people he harmed, inconvenienced to straight up killed throughout the story because he has no real understanding of the consequences of his own actions. In every sense of the word, he's like that kid from the Twilight Zone who vanished the whole world outside of his own small town and kept sending people to the cornfield because they pissed him off.
Considering that according to the current Venom comic, obtaining a symbiote was the beginning of Peter's ascent to the status of one of the main gods of the cosmos, the King in Black (the path from which he was knocked down), I would say that this is a very significant prize.
Oh damn, Event Month. It's an event in of itself, now.
Not really. You don't exactly have tie-in episodes from other reviewers.
@@kalainreinard8421Not all events are Crisis Crossovers...
@@kalainreinard8421 Unless you count his stream tie-ins.
@@BaronSengir1008Fair point.
I remember reading "The Unofficial History of the Marvel Universe" which covered the level of "Meta" in this story. Much like Marville was! You hit on a lot of the points without even knowing the horrible backstory they share!
You forgot the most recent and currently used retcon, The Beyonders are a God like species from outside the Multiverse and he's a baby Beyonder who was pulled to the Marvel Universe by Molecule Man's creation in what was essentially a premature birth.
Ya, they retconned the whole Mutant/Inhuman thing to the Beyonder just fucking around. The Mutant/Inhuman thing was dumb anyway because we already had a mix of the two by then and there be no reason for one to be more powerful than the celestials.
I'm being reminded of the retcon with the Anti-Monitor and everything involving Perpetua and The Hands.
"The experience is consumated!" is a great line out of context, imma say that any time I save my game in No More Heroes now
Zim's "MY BUSINESS. . .IS DONE," has more zip, tho.
Also this comic reminds me of the conversations of what people would do with functional immortality/respawning mechanics... and the answer is basically "GTA 5 online multiplayer but in real life". Leaping off of buildings just to see if you can, using "respawning" as a shortcut, etc.
Love how Volcana gets called a cow for being slightly wider than the average superlady.
The Beyonder: Who should I pick as my oshi: Gawr Gura or Pekora Usada?
Wolverine: You're askin' the wrong guy, bub. Go ask Deadpool.
The Beyonder: OK! [Disappears]
*Later...*
The Beyonder: [Appears] So, who should I pick as my-
Deadpool: Suisei, duh!
Secret Wars II is one of those comic events that made me ask
Why. I legit don’t know why… any of this… even Genesis, maybe DC’s actual worst event, I understood was made. Why was Secret Wars II… THIS?!
Good summation. This made me hate Event Comics from the get-go (with how the tie-ins threw off the series I actually cared about and all). Just out of curiosity, why do think Genesis is the worst? I agree it sucks, but to me it was mostly a non-entity when it came to Event Comics.
Nah, Heroes in Crisis is the worst. Genesis was bad, but it wasn't insulting.
The story of Marvel editorial pushing against SECRET WARS II in MARVEL: THE UNTOLD STORY is a much more accurate Secret War than what's in the actual comic.
Linkara: What do you think of the theory that the new universe created by The Beyonder is in fact 'The New Universe'?
I think Viga needs an award for this title card LMAO
That intro was absolutely rad! It got me hyped for the episode and said episode was awesome. Thanks for making this 🙏😃
Event comics month!!!
Looking forward to seeing this, dude!!
"Both, if it's Taco Bell."
Okay, that got a sensible chuckle!
you know, I think there's a problem with the beyonder's logic. he's asking humans! Like, yeah ask humans about stuff, but aside from his little trip into space he acts like humans are the only species, or the only ones that matter. He could have gone to the eternals, the Olympian gods, the Asgardians, vampires, the literal afterlives. If he's so unsatisfied with everyone circling back to mortality, stop asking the mortal. The gods, undead and monsters all have desires too and are effectively immortal for the most part so go ask them. Imagen him talking to dracula about desire and dracula gives him a completely different answer because he's not limited by a human life, but was human and became something greater as a vampire king. effectively the reverse of the beyonder. he could talk to the MANY gods of the marvel universe big and small from earth gods like odin and zeus to the celestials and even potentially the one above all. That could have been more interesting.
My birthday was yesterday, so I will accept this as a late gift~
Beyonder's lucky he didn't try any of this in the DC universe, where his difficulty in understanding desire could've led him to the Endless of the same name~
Title sequence is A BANGER!!!!!
I keep thinking of the Mr. Neutron episode of Monty Python. "The most dangerous man in the universe...he really is..."
😂
... Linkara is clearly trying to resist having a Harris BomberGuy or DefunctLand length video... and succeeding...