The FIRST IRISH WITCH burning | Halloween special video | Alice Kyteler | History Calling
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 окт 2021
- The FIRST IRISH WITCH burnt at the stake is the subject of today’s HALLOWEEN special video from History Calling. Called Petronilla De Midia, or Petronilla De Meath, she wasn’t even the target of this particular medieval witch hunt. Rather, it was her mistress, Dame Alice Kyteler, a wealthy and well-connected woman from the town of Kilkenny, Ireland, who was suspected of using witchcraft to kill three, perhaps even four husbands and persuade several of them to give their money to her son, William Outlaw. In this video, we’ll look at the charges made against Alice and her supposed accomplices in 1324 by Richard Ledrede, Bishop of Ossory. These included accusations of heresy, inappropriate relations with demons (not that there are ever any appropriate relations with demons!), some hideous sounding spells and potions that involved the body parts of deceased children and criminals and the offence of supposedly poisoning her fourth husband with arsenic. We’ll trace the sequence of events which led to the first Irish witch burning and uncover what a witch fearing Pope, an extremist Bishop, the use of torture and the Knights Templar had to do with the whole situation.
If you’ve ever wondered ‘are witches real’, this Halloween history video will leave you in no doubt that your ancestors’ answer to that question would have been a resounding yes, as it will reveal medieval attitudes to witchcraft in Ireland and why a recent change in those attitudes made the reaction to Alice Kyteler’s supposed crimes so much more extreme than it might have been just a few decades earlier. It will explain why Petronilla, a woman who has gone down in history as the first witch in Ireland to be burnt alive, was likely just an innocent servant, caught up in a power struggle between her mistress and the fanatical Ledrede.
Patreon: / historycalling
Instagram: / historycalling
SUBSCRIBE with NOTIFICATIONS switched on for new videos every Friday.
YOU MIGHT ALSO LIKE:
HISTORICAL MYSTERIES’ PLAYLIST • Historical Mysteries
THE MYSTERIOUS DISAPPEARANCE OF BENJAMIN BATHURST • THE MYSTERIOUS DISAPPE...
THE STORY OF THE AMBER ROOM: LOST TREASURE OF WORLD WAR 2 • The Story of the AMBER...
THE 140 YEAR OLD COUNTESS OF DESMOND • THE 140 YEAR OLD COUNT...
WHY DID PEOPLE DANCE THEMSELVES TO DEATH? • WHY DID PEOPLE DANCE T...
WHAT HAPPENED TO QUEEN ANNE’S CHILDREN? • WHAT HAPPENED TO QUEEN...
SIX WIVES OF HENRY VIII PLAYLIST
• Six wives of Henry VIII
NB: Links above may be affiliate links. This means if you make a purchase through one of these links, I earn a small commission. It in no way affects the price you pay.
Creative Commons licenses used see creativecommons.org/licenses/
Do you think Alice might have had a hand in the deaths of any of her husbands, or do you believe she was the victim of the malicious slanders of her step-children? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
I vote slander. With the beliefs of the time, and lack of understanding of illness and death's processes, it would be easy to make up stories. Especially with dad's money on the line...
I vote for the Slander Theory.
EXCELLENT PRESENTATION!
Thanks for the Education! 👍
Nope- malicious slander cos they wanted her money, & used an imaginary, unprovable crime with the death penalty to get it.
@@beth7935 Bingo!
@@tdesq.2463 Yep, common things are commonest: soooo many people went through multiple spouses before modern medicine, & the vast majority weren't knocking off their husbands & wives! Family infighting about money & inheritance IS very common tho, especially in step-families.
I have a direct ancestor (grandmother 10 times over) who was born in Liverpool and was executed around 1652 near Salem, MA for witchcraft. While her story doesn't have nearly as much documentation as the more famous Salem witch trials of the 1690s, she is known for being the second woman to be executed in Massachusetts for witchcraft. She was also called Alice, Alice Ireod-Lake. She was only 38 or 39 at the time of her death but thankfully had a daughter before she died, from whom I am descended.
I can't imagine what she or this Alice might have gone through!
This was a really interesting video.
i may be tangentially related to elizabeth howe who was executed at salem in the 1692.
I live in Ireland and have visited Kilkenny on many occasions. It’s my favourite place ❤️😊 it’s lovely there 😊 I have been inside the pub Kytlers inn many times aswell. It has a lovely old world charm ❤️great video idea well done.
Kilkenny is gorgeous. I was there a couple of months ago, which is when I heard about this story and decided to do a video on it :-) Glad you liked it.
Old world charm!!! 🤣😂🤣 You live in Ireland!!! I live in Alberta 🇨🇦 it's just a little over 100 y.o. The weather can be so harsh nothing lasts, unless you really work at it. Several times my city has been the coldest place on earth!!! Like -50°C!!! 😷😎😷
Theory: Alice was a strong, independent woman, who was not particularly religious. All things that flew in the convention of society at the time. Heck, all things that women are still condemned for today! Alice's strength and her actions to protect herself and her biological son, so that the death of a spouse didn't lead to a life on the streets or as a prostitute, made her a target - a target for her stepchildren, a target for clergyman lusting for her untithed money (and maybe even her body). She was a woman which the times were at odds with, and nothing more.
The ailing husband falling to pieces could have been a result of any number of things. Cancer. Diabetes. Lead poisoning. Genetic illnesses. We didn't know enough about illness then to be able to diagnose his problems across the centuries now.
Yes, her 4th husband could definitely have been ill for all sorts of reasons and there's really no evidence (certainly not enough to convict) that she killed any of them, though I'd love to know what happened to the first one, given that she was accused of harming him.
I fully agree! Before modern medicine, loads of people went through several spouses- my g-g-grandmother was married 3 times, cos what was a poor widow with several little kids going to do in the 1800s? Especially as she had no family to help as she'd just come from England to Australia with her 1st husband...
So I think 4 husbands dying of natural causes is totally believable, & FAR more likely than murder, but when families fight about money & inheritance, especially step-families, things get NASTY- I've seen it even with people I previously thought were quite nice, & who'd seemed like they got along with their sibling before their parent died.
Yawn. Tone done the cuckery and the wokery, fella.
With all the circumstantial evidence against Alice, it'd be tempting to say she was guilty, but, times being what they were, I have to say she was falsely accused of all charges. I feel sorry for her poor servant who certainly did not deserve her fate.
Alice might have been, yes, but as you say, Petronilla doesn't appear to have done anything wrong.
@@HistoryCallingdo you know the specific location in Kilkenny that Petronella was burned?
Alice is one of my favorite historical figures! Especially among those who were accused of Witchcraft! I only wish that all the others had been able to escape!
I know. I'm glad she got away, but poor Petronilla :-(
Yes, I've always found the story really interesting too- it's highly significant in the history of witch trials, & Alice sounds like an interesting character- very strong & determined & independent.
Perfect story for Halloween! I vote slander by her step-children. Another strong woman triumphs! Happy Halloween to all! 🧡👻🎃
Thank you. Yes, the step-children do seem to have had it in for her.
Perfect Halloween video! There's also a possible true crime element mixed in, which I love. The parallels you drew between the persecution of Kyteler and the Templars were very interesting. Ledrede comes across as a religious beast; his behavior pushes my buttons as much as the atrocities of the Salem Witch Trials here in America. We were thinking of skipping Halloween this year, but now I'm inspired to go out and buy candy for any trick-or-treaters who show up this year. Thank you for another wonderful video. Be well. Enjoy All Hallow's Eve. 🙏
Thanks Stephen, I'm glad you liked it. Yes, Ledrede was an awful man in my opinion. A murderer really. Yeah, go buy some sweets for the kids. I've already enjoyed eating some of the stuff supposedly for the children who come round to my door. It's one of the perks of Halloween :-)
An AMAZING Halloween vid, I love it!!
Thank you. I'm so glad you liked it and even better, you've heard of Alice already (which few people have). Yes, the whole situation with the Templars does give it an extra layer of context, once you know what happened to them and that Ledrede had been in France at around the same time. I agree that lots of people had multiple spouses without killing them. Queen Catherine Parr springs to mind for instance.
@@HistoryCalling I've always been really interested in the witch trials, & I don't know loads, but I have the most brilliant book ever (Europe's Inner Demons by Norman Cohn) which I think actually does a damn good job of explaining how the witch craze came about! Big claim, but the scholarship is wow-level: he'd previously proven that some significant "contemporary sources" were forgeries. I remember Alice's trial cos it was very significant, as well as such a weird & interesting story- & I have ancestors from Kilkenny, lol.
And yeah- another ancestor had 3 husbands, & a relative had 4 wives... And while Henry VIII DID murder 2 wives, Katherine Parr didn't murder him _or_ Thomas Seymour, & she had far more reason to!
Very interesting! It does sound like her husband was suffering from symptoms of poisoning, but I think it's worth remembering that that doesn't inherently mean someone intentionally poisoned him. As well as being an era of limited medical care, this was also an era without checks on the safety of food, or much knowledge of environmental contaminants. Even centuries after this point, people were putting lead on their faces and eating mercury to cure syphilis.
First let me say, the story was interesting & I loved the artwork for this Halloween weekend!
Alice may have poisoned her husband, but as you said life expectancy was short. However poison was a way to get rid of a an unliked spouse or family member…
As for the servant being burned at the stake, she was a victim, she had no money, & it looks like she was the scapegoat for the accusations. She probably admitted to anything they said under torture.
I recently viewed a 1928 silent film called the Passion of Joan of Arc. the film was based from the actual record of her trial. It was quite sad, & in the language of the trial they really couldn’t find her a witch or heretic, they threatened her with torture, she didn’t care she continued to tell them she was doing what God told her to do.
and continuously asked to be given communion, as she was a devout Catholic, something they denied her unless she confessed, which she didn’t. I believe they allowed her to communion before they burned her at the stake.
The Salem witch trials in Massachusetts was really about wealth & land grabbing. Since so many affluent people were being tried and killed the Governor came to Salem to investigate, he & his wife were accused of witchcraft but when this happened all this came to an abrupt stop. Another interesting time in history.
To see how far we have come, Salem now calls itself “Witch City” and there are numerous practicing witches living there.
The era of heretic & witch burning was a horrible time in history, mostly for women. The fact that these were carried out by the Catholic and later the Protestant churches is a black part of Christianity. Since most people were illiterate & were read the gospels by clergy, I could see how power, money, greed, and the dislike for women corrupted the church. I’m not sure, but I seem to remember a time when clergy were allowed to marry & but then they weren’t & took a vow of celibacy. I guess they really didn’t like women, somehow Pope Gregory VII comes to mind.
Thank you again for another interesting time in History. I look forward to your next video!
Thank you. I'm glad you liked the video. Yes, the whole witch hunting/killing phase of humanity's history really doesn't show us in a good light at all. Someone else mentioned the land grab theory about Salem too, which I was unaware of (but then, I don't know much about Salem). It's just another despicable layer to that story. Joan of Arc's story is heart-breaking too. It'll be something more upbeat next week (I mean it's about a supposedly cursed object, but it's still more upbeat than judicial murder!) Happy Halloween 🎃
Excellent Analysis! Very Good! And, yes, the Salem debacle involved numerous intrigues, including Land Grabbing. All private property titles were, at that time, cloudy and insecure, as they had all been previously confiscated by Royal Governor Edmund Andros. Though reinstated with the Coronation of William and Mary, the private land titles were vulnerable to challenge. And the situation sparked by the adolescent girls coming of age and pointing fingers to avoid being held to account by the Puritan Elders for the thoughts and urges that their own biology commanded. Also of interest, as you pointed out: The Wife of Governor Phipps (and the Governor himself (?)) were accused. Yep, that brought the fiasco to a screeching halt. But Phipps would soon be replaced by his Lieutenant Governor: William Stoughton, who also just so happened to be the Chief Judge of the ad hoc Court of Oyer and Terminer ... aka, the Salem Witch Court.
So, how do you like them apples!
@@HistoryCalling Witchcraft accusations usually arose from personal conflicts, & were motivated by revenge or attempts to get money or land- that's in no way limited to Salem! Some people _did_ perform witchcraft in some sense (ie the Pendle witches), & you could've genuinely, say, heard them curse someone, but it wouldn't have actually _caused_ any harm, & you could NOT have seen them consorting with demons & reported it as a genuine crime, so there has to be _some_ other motivation.
Basically, it was a good way to get revenge, money & land- an imaginary, unprovable crime with the death penalty :(
@@tdesq.2463 I love your response! ❤️❤️❤️It’s been years since I’ve been to Salem Mass. I used to be a member of the Peabody & Essex Museum. It’s such an interesting area…The East India Company, Nathaniel Hawthorne, I believe the actual hangings took place in Danvers not Salem.
I had a stroke in 2012 sometimes my memory gets jumbled & haven’t been to Salem since 2006. It used to be one of my favorite haunts! 🎃👻👻😈👺👹😺🎃🎃🎃🎃. Happy Halloween!
@@HistoryCalling best wishes & happy Halloween 🎃
thank you so much for the Halloween treat - I love the irony of the tower collapse from too much lead - 🛸🎃
I know. While I don't like the thought of that beautiful Cathedral being damaged, I do like that it will have put Ledrede's nose out of joint. :-)
@@HistoryCalling - almost certain proof of a divine order in the Universe again I'd say - that was a nice little detail you have a good eye for - the intro video of pumpkins etc is maximum Halloween for sure - awesome - ty for a very fun video about witch burning - Happy Halloween - 🎃
Thank you and Happy Halloween to you too! 🎃
Wow! What a story! It sounds like Alice was merely greedy, making sure she clipped each husband for the money at the expense of his children by previous marriages. She may have poisoned one husband, but four? Also I do not like that she fled, leaving her son to be tortured, but she HAD made him rich. My favorite part is the church tower collapsing under too much lead. What a bloody bishop! And the poor maid... I agree, he burned her just because he could, and he couldn't get to Alice.
I think a bit of both. She repeatedly took the inheritance of her step children and that makes her the stepmother from hell😔It happened to my daughter due to her dads new wife. But what an horrific end for the poor maid.May I say I love the variety of topics you cover and I find myself interested in things I never knew about🙌🏼👍🏼❤️
Thank you. I wish more people were open to learning new things. Any time I stray from the Tudors, my viewing numbers take a big hit. So annoying :-( On Alice though, yes it might have been smarter (and kinder) to let her step-children have a piece of the pie, than to engender such bad blood with them.
VERY interesting. If Alice did have a hand doing-in any of her husbands, she wouldn't have been the first, nor the last. At a time when opportunities for women were virtually nonexistent, it may have been the only way she could have fended for herself and her family. Just like throwing accusations at poor Alice might have been their only way to make a living. It is dreadful that a servant was used as a scapegoat, but maybe Alice and the son that seemed to know how his parsnips were being buttered, paid someone off to take her instead - a body for a body. I love this history and know for certain I am very fortunate to be living here (Canada) and now! Thank you again for making Fridays even more special.
Thanks Kim. I'm glad you liked it. Yes, it is tricky to know if Alice was a killer or not, but it certainly seems possible. As for Petronilla, my heart breaks for her.
@@HistoryCalling It was a terrible time for so many people. Yes, poor innocent girl. Just finished reading The Five by Hallie Rubenhold. There is so much to be grateful for - especially as women.
“Taking apart animals and giving out the parts!” The town butcher: 👁👄👁
To be honest, there’s more circumstantial evidence that she was a husband killer!! That would probably have been easier to convict, guilty or not.
But the outcome is really horrible! I wonder if Alice made any attempt to save Petronilla, with all her finances? If she was too scared for herself or if she didn’t really care too much.
On the cheery note: Happy Halloween! 😱
Yes, it is a long list of dead husbands and the fourth one does sound like he may have been poisoned, but who knows. Maybe he accidentally ate something he shouldn't have and Alice had nothing to do with it. I'd like to think Alice did what she could for Petronilla. Happy Halloween! 🎃
I wonder ..hmm. 🤔
Poor Petronilla. On the other hand I do want to work "ignorant low born vagabond" into my insult repertoire. Thanks for the suitably spooky story and have a Happy Halloween
Yeah, you've gotta love those medieval folks for a good insult! Happy Halloween to you too :-)
sooo excited for this!
Thank you. Hope you enjoyed it :-)
Another great video! Thank you! 💕
You're welcome. Happy Halloween 🎃
what a lovely presentation loved the narration
"not that there are any appropriate relations with demons."
love it
Yeah, that disclaimer was funny.
Thanks for this, enjoyed it. What got to me was the various charges, all those body parts. Of course it had to be a poor servant who suffered the worst of it.
I know. The charges were oddly specific (and gruesome). I think the info. came from disgruntled step-children and possibly confessions secured through torture.
I remember first reading about this case in the Horrible Histories book about Ireland. Granted, it was a much more child-friendly and not as detailed version of the tale but I do remember that Alice and her son were able to escape but her maid was burned at the stake. There were also an added detais in that version. Firstly, that Petronilla (what an odd name for 14th century Ireland) was strangled before being burnt and secondly, that some of the accusers of Alice and Co. were killed in the collapse of the cathedral roof. Not sure where that bit came from or if it was just for some dramatic effect.
Possibly some dramatic effect, as I didn't see those details in the sources, but I still love the Horrible History series, even if it does take the odd historical liberty 😀
I am glad to be free to be me and no longer obligated to any church.I am glad I have survived judgements,abuses,and condemnations.I will never turn my back on my ancestry and roots nor be religiously used and abused again.Thank you for this video.
Wow - VERY interesting!!
A very interesting video. Would like to hear more about Irish history.
Thank you. If you haven't seen them, I also have videos on St Patrick and on the Old Countess of Desmond, who supposedly lived to be 140. I'll do some more Irish history in due course as well.
Great stuff, thank you so much 👍. Will definitely be looking both of those up.
Yes please more Irish history. What a great channel!! I enjoy your videos very much. Keep em coming.
This is Excellent! Aren't People just so I wonderful!
Yep. The Love of Money truly is the Root of all Evil.
HAPPY HALLOWEEN!
... from Boston
Thank you. Hope you had a good Halloween on the other side of the pond. :-)
@@HistoryCalling Thank You so much! And I hope you enjoyed Halloween on your side of The The Pond. 👻
Was she a witch, super unlucky in love, or a black widow? I guess we will never know for sure. All I do know is, the maid that actually died from this, was probably innocent and didn't deserve that. It was a different time though, unfortunately, and they probably thought they were saving people by killing her.
It was a suspiciously high death rate for her husbands, however given the time period they were living in, it's certainly not impossible that they died of natural causes. Yes, poor Petronilla. She probably did nothing beyond being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
She was the typical type of woman who is accused of witchcraft in that she had something others wanted, typically money or land. Her servant is the typical type of women who ends up caught up in the whole mess and punished : powerless.
Women and others who defy patriarchy almost always pay dearly, alas.
Women and others? So Women and Men, then.
@@JohnDoe-tx8lq It's always a white man who must reduce everything to his own sad, insular, failing comprehension. Disabled people, LGBTQ+ peoples, peoples of color, colonized peoples, indigenous peoples, poor people, and/or children and elders are Others/othered under patriarchy. Some of these people can be men, of course, obviously, but men lose their status as men when they are othered.
@@mesamies123 Yep, you can't mention _anything_ bad that happens to women- like how many are murdered by their male partners or exes every day, or past legal injustices like being paid half what a man got for the same job- without a man immediately trying to turn the convo back to men, men, men. It doesn't even matter what they say about men- they're the majority silencing the minority when we try to speak up about the injustices we suffer.
@@JohnDoe-tx8lq Who mentioned men?? It was a comment about women, who are OBVIOUSLY the vast majority of those who suffer under patriarchy. Just as they made up the vast majority- ~90%- of those executed for witchcraft, & we're making the valid point that WOMEN SUFFERED DISPROPORTIONATELY. Stop trying to silence us by dragging the convo back to _men._ I'll talk about men's issues, but they can wait their damn turn.
@@beth7935 YOU said Women and others. So 'others' is also other Men. OK, I'm glad we agree. 😎👍 We hate being left out of anything.
Being a witch seems a pretty full time job.
Yup and it doesn't even come with a salary. You gotta kill your 4 husbands to make money apparently. Happy Halloween 🎃
Thank you.
Have you ever seen the film Witchfinder General? If not I would recommend, creepy film though!
No, but I'll add it to my list. I did re-watch the original 'The Witches' recently, with Angelica Houston and it creeped me out. I'd forgotten how disturbing that movie is. Can't believe it's made for children!
@@HistoryCalling If you can dig up "Witchfinder General" (kudos to lee76 for mentioning it), make sure you choose the uncensored version. Vincent Price is at his best as the malevolent title character. It was released here in the US as "The Conqueror Worm" with Price reciting the last verses of the Poe poem in the final scene. Some of the bloodiest violence was edited out which made the continuity very choppy. 🎃
Great story.
Without knowing when the husbands died, their age, and possible cause of death I don't think we can condemn her as a "black widow". I think it's far more likely that the Bishop wanted some fame and clout. I mean the whole charge is SO over the top and detailed but WHO gave him this information? The poor maid that was later burned? That doesn't seem likely. I think he took a page out of the Templar burnings and accusations that happened 10 years earlier. Alice seems to have been a smart cookie - whether she poisoned one or more husbands or not. She was smart enough to get out of there and save her own skin. Also, she was married to at least two money lenders - were they Jewish? the 1290 Edict of Expulsion of Jews from England may have led to an increase in the Jewish population in Ireland.
In my personal opinion? Yeah, I think she poisoned one or more of them.
I don't know the religion of her husbands, but I would strongly suspect Catholics (for the step-children to be reporting them to the Bishop). Yes, I think Ledrede was out to make a name for himself as well. A thoroughly horrible man. I think he gathered up the information from confessions wrought through torture and from the stepchildren.
@@HistoryCalling That makes sense, though I didn't think Catholics did a lot of money lending, and she married 2 :) I wonder if the "questioning" of the step-kids were in the line of, Did you see her do XYZ (insert whatever "devil-worshipping act" )Ledrede could come up with rather than them telling him what they saw - seems very specific. And no matter what, I'm glad he didn't get to harm Alice.
My family has a oral history that our family started during fertility rites on May 1st where woman would dance the May pole dance and then run into the forests chased by the God Robin. I assume these were men wearing masks? If the woman became pregnant after these rites Robin was considered the father. These children would usually be born under the horned sign of Capricorn and were called "Sons of Robin" or "Robin's Sons" and that where, over time, the last name Robinson comes from. Some of us embrace and adore this oral history...the Xtians in our family not so much. lol The oldest mention I see of Robin is during the witch trial of Alice Kyteler. We then see him pop up as Robin Goodfellow in William Shakespeare's writing in the 1500s. Our family is mostly from England, but we also spread across Scotland. No one seems to be able to answer if Robin is Anglo Saxon in origin or more Celtic. Or both? People in the family still say we have "Fairy blood". Which is weird because we have a lot of psychics in the family and even seem to be followed around by what modern people would call UFOs (not metallic flying saucers but more colored beach ball sized lights.) and other strange phenomena like fairy encounters
“Not that there are any A-ppropriate relationships with demons”
well that kind of attitude is just plain old no fun.
Guess I'm just old fashioned 😉 Happy Halloween 🎃
Exactly! I immediately thought "I can think of loads of completely appropriate relations you could have with demons!" :D A friendly conversation over a nice cup of tea would be fine, surely! Depends on your opinion of demons really- I like witches & vampires, & I always like the villains best, lol- I'd probably rather hang out with a demon than an angel, tbh :D
I first heard this story while in Kilkenny on my honeymoon. It was amazing to see the buildings. While I’m not convinced she was wholly innocent, I think this is another example of a strong, smart, independent woman being put down through history.
Poor Petronilla was merely a scapegoat. Ladrede couldn't get his hands on Alice Kyteler, but somebody had to burn.
The novel Her Kind by Niamh Boyce tells a fictionalized account of Alice Kytler’s supposed crimes and the ensuing trial.
In Kytelers Inn as I msg. What an amazing history. Heartbroken for poor Petronella
are there going to be captions on this video? I'd love to watch it!
Hi Stephanie, yes, there are captions. Are you sure you've switched them on at the bottom of your screen?
@@HistoryCalling strange, they work on my phone but not laptop 🤔, sorry for troubling you! interesting video! I'll definitely be researching some more!
You would have to wonder how they came up with such exact details of the charges.
I think a mixture of stories told by the step-children and from forced confessions.
This was very interesting!
I was wondering if you could do a video about the true story behind a movie I just saw, "The Last Duel". I liked the movie and would love to know more about the real story.
You know, the thought had occurred to me, but I suspect the original sources are in medieval French which would be a serious problem for me (assuming they are even available in published form). I'll maybe have a look and see what I can find though.
@@HistoryCalling Ah, I didn't even think of that. How interesting would that be though. Either way, thanks for checking into it!
Hadn't known of that work (The Last Duel) until reading Your note here. Just looked it up. I must own that I too find that situation most intriguing. And, I would also appreciate a comprehensive explication of the juicy bits from that little drama, if our most Learned Hostess could unearth some workable source material.
Judicial Duel. Perhaps, it could make a comeback. It would certainly make Trial Practice much more interesting ... and effective, too.
Great suggestion! You have an enthusiastic 2nd!
~TD, Boston
@@tdesq.2463 Yay! Hopefully she can find what she needs and we'll get the whole story.
@@kimmycupreacts I hope so too. That is a mighty compelling topic You put on the table here! Mighty Compelling! 👍👍👍
What a lovely person that bishop was. /s
I dunno if A. murdered her husbands, the step kids were lying, or the stepkids truly believed it when it was truly just abnormally bad luck. The main part is that bishop was f'ing nuts.
Yes, Ledrede was an absolutely horrible person, but of course he's the one who got the nice burial in the Cathedral, while whatever remained of poor Petronilla was presumably left to blow away in the wind. I don't know if Alice was a killer or not, but there certainly doesn't seem to have been enough evidence to kill either her or Petronilla for any reason.
After reading a lot of true crime stories that involved husbands dying one by one by one by one by one and/or babies dying by one by one by one by one, I can see her doin away with murderin her hubbies...many have throughout history, I'm sure a cavelady took a stoney bat to their hubby and bopped them on the head a few times while singin the dinosaur song. Salem is only 15 minutes from me, actually 2 Salems are both 15 minutes from me, just one in each state of NH & MA. lol But in Salem, MA, it's a great town with a nice tour. Some claim witches (ghosts of those who were burned & hanged) foilow them to their home & haunt their house. I have yet have that happen to me.
Yes, she could have had a hand in the death of one or more husbands, but it doesn't seem like there was enough evidence to convict and poor Petronilla quite possibly had nothing to do with it all and was just a scapegoat. I didn't know there are two Salems. The one in MA would be a fascinating (though also very sad) place to visit, from an historical point of view. Yes, I've never had any ghostly experiences myself, though I've visited plenty of castles and palaces that are supposedly haunted. Happy Halloween! 🎃
@@HistoryCalling Today there has been plenty of murderers getting away with it with lack of evidence, just because there's no evidence or lack there of, doesn't mean the lass is innocent.
@@HistoryCalling If I ever make it to Ireland, I'd make it a priority to visit some of the haunted places. I have a nice coffee table book, "Haunted Britain and Ireland" by Richard Jones. I've read about the ghostly boy seen in Yeat's Thoor Ballylee in Gort and the snarling black cat which appeared at Killakee House. Any recommendations? Be well.
There once was Alice from Kilkenny,
who liked to marry and kill and re-marry.
She boiled up toads, bats and humans body parts,
casting spells on husbands, having stolen thier hearts.
But she got away it,
cos they said; “twas the servant that done it!”
🔥😧🔥
Excellent! :-) Happy Halloween 🎃
Interesting. After listening twice I remain confused as to why the Templars were burned.
After looking Alice up my search said she was from a wealthy Flemish family and not native to Ireland. She was not new to money, power, connections and manipulation. If she did not kill several if not all her husband's she missed a good chance.
Years ago it was difficult to really understand the Salem Whitch Trials but today's tourists seem to enjoy the visit as it is in Kilkerry.
My asides... The much later Pope John XXIII was such a happy round man in contrast to XXII.
Look up the true back story of the play/movie Chicago. Two women kill good husbands in order to party. And so it goes.
The Knights Templar had red crosses and the Tutonic Knights black crosses.. They converted the Prussians and the later used they Iron Cross symbol.
I think Alice was descended from Flemish immigrants, rather than being foreign-born herself. In a nutshell, the Templars were disbanded for religious reasons (and probably because they had become too powerful). Yes, it is odd what a tourist attraction supposed scenes of witchcraft have become. I always find the stories disturbing and heart-breaking myself. Then again, I enjoyed visiting the Battle of Hastings site and that event was hardly a laugh a minute.
Also, the Templars were MASSIVELY rich, & the French king at the time wanted their money.
Also, the king of France had borrowed massive amounts of money from the Templars. By getting rid of them he never had to pay them back.
this is perfect for halloween 🎃 i’m torn between being involved and not involved. it seems to coincidental but at the same time possible 🤔
I'm on the fence myself, but ultimately I don't think there was enough evidence to convict (though if I'd been a man, I certainly wouldn't have been hurrying to become husband no. 5, just in case).
@@HistoryCalling completely agree!!
So sad history ❤
The evidence does seem suspicious, but it's also entirely circumstantial (especially with the lack of medical knowledge). Maybe she did kill them? Maybe she was a swindler but didn't kill anyone? Or maybe she was completely innocent, and her son was just incredibly charming and promising? It's impossible to say, but I'm sticking to the ‘innocent until proven guilty’ line of thinking.
Poor Petronilla though. At least her daughter fled with Alice, so hopefully, knowing that her daughter was safe brought her some comfort.
I really loved that you pointed out that the only one who was for sure guilty of murder was the bishop of Ossory.
Not sure if she had a hand in it, but pretty sure it wasn’t witchcraft if she was.
Same here :-)
Alice was far from innocent. But that Bishop was.. disturbed. IMHO.
But that's a very simplefied way of putting it.
When times are less than perfect,and we need to survive,we do things we normally wouldn't. Or life has a way of shaping us into what we are,and the things we do. Not saying they're aren't bad people out there,whose intentions are les than stellar,just saying that there's so much more to the story,then what we know about this case and the persons involved,as is the the case with many historical figures and settings.
Ah, c'mon! Surely there are _some_ appropriate relations you could have with demons? ;) A friendly cup of tea, perhaps? :D I think I'd rather hang out with demons than angels, anyway- sounds like way more fun!
A spooky tale for Halloween historycalling, I agree with your theory it was nothing to do with witchcraft an over zealous Bishop looking for a scapegoat.
Yes, I think so too. Poor Petronilla :-(
i think that alice may have had a hand in the deaths of her husbands, but there's no way to know for sure. it's possible that the strange objects in the locked chests could have been a sort of good luck charm or amulet that alice may have been using to help an ailing husband at a time when medicine was still primitive. i wouldn't necessarily call her a good person (you shouldn't take money from your stepkids), but i don't think she, or anyone else accused, was a witch.
Wow
Thank you :-)
Those charges were weirdly specific - and kinda funny this far away in the future (I’m sure it wasn’t funny at the time…)
A woman gets rich and everyone gets jealous and start horrible lies. Take care and have fun!!! 😷😎😷
It does look suspiciously like that, doesn't it:-) Happy Halloween 🎃
Agreed!
They always blame strong independent women 4🧟♂️🧟♀️ horrible things
Well she certainly could have if she knew her native plants, and especially if she had enough wicked malice to add in bits of cooked bird excretia, nails of the dead and bum hair to the mix! But we don't know what age they were, or in what state of health. But yeah, with or without the little dances and candles, she definitely could have! It's *sort* of a 'use your natural talents to best advantage to get ahead' ... I guess ... 😬
I thought the buttock hair was such a strange thing to have in there! Yes, she could have been a black widow, but as for poor Petronilla, I doubt she did anything to deserve the punishment she got.
@@HistoryCalling Poor Petronilla indeed. What's that old song? ... it's the rich what get the pleasure and the poor what get the blame ??
I haven't heard that one, but it sounds about right.
Ah some relationships with demons are OK....
Exactly! Sensible people forget that to some of us, the obvious answer to "I'm a demon" is "ooh, tell me more!!" X'D
You guys are funny! ... In a Good way, of course.
Alice almost certainly had a hand in widowing herself; possibly her son did too and maybe Petronella did have some guilty knowledge on that front. But there's no mystery about LeDrede; he was a misogynistic idiot.
Alice is super lucky. I mean what do I have to do to get in touch with a high ranking demon?
Cant' help you there I'm afraid 🎃
Nikella Holmes
What a load of mince! Paranoia from a priest and her step children made her guilty. As my grandmother always said " Superstition is the devil's Bible ". Her grandmother was from Ballymena and she said she got that phrase from her.
Happy Halloween, everyone 🎃🎃🎃🍺🍺
Hope you had a good one :-)
Since the age of 12, she had, husbands five (all men of high degree.)
Just the 4 husbands (but then again, 4 is surely enough for anyone?!) Happy Halloween! :-)
@@HistoryCalling Happy Halloween.
She sounds like a Black Widow. Marry'em and poison'em. Then cash in and move on to the next one...
She may well have been, though I don't think there was enough evidence in this case to convict.
This may sound like legal wrangling but were these people accused under cannon law as heretics or was the crime whichcraft. I would be inclined to say that the crime was heresy since burning was the punishment.
Maybe her family was just marrying her off to the old and rich. Rather than witch craft.
And then there were the Salem Witch trials in Massachusetts in 1692..
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials
Indeed. Not a good time in humanity's history :-(
Why was my comment censored?
I don't see any censored comments from you. Maybe it didn't post correctly to begin with?
I've had the same issues, NOT the channels creator's fault.
With many NORMAL words like "Torch + ure" when discussing history/war/politics, RUclips could automatically hide the comment - but then sometimes they don't.
Witch craft.
Honestly? I dont think a head would be a realistic option.
They are only so big, Keeping the skin on & eyes in would be come putrid quickly.
Alice it wasn't my Catholic Church that burned witches; the Protestants did the deed though every religion took part. My group snuffed heretics Protestants fried witches. Both groups acted like a bunch of damn fools in those days giving Christianity a bad taste here in 2021.
SHEESH! This was a cheerful video. I am waiting for some stupid protestant to use this information to harass a Catholic.
I don't think that'll happen. Protestantism didn't even exist during this period.
What on earth were you expecting from the title? The Muppets Christmas?
@@HistoryCalling REALLY? The events of the past are always thrown in the face of Catholics.
@@miryamamar5442 - I'm not surprised RUclips censored you - if you are neither Catholic or Protestant you should be quiet
"SHEESH"? It means you're not impressed, right? Considering the Title, that's an odd response... unless you just wanted a reaction. WELL DONE! You have been noticed 👏👏👏👏 and your contribution has added to the channel's interactions and helped promote it towards ever greater success - hooray for the sharing of Religious ideologies! 😎👍
Why was my comment censored?
I don't see any censored comments from you. Maybe it didn't post correctly to begin with?
@@HistoryCalling That is strange, as when I have posted on other sites it will post without issue???
@@historylover2 - RUclips uses automated moderation algorithms - you may have used a banned keyword
Possibly just a glitch on RUclips's end of things? I definitely don't see anything from you in the 'Held for review' comments, which is where things with hyperlinks and swear words go.
I've had the same issues with youtube. (not the channels creator's fault)
With words like "Torch + ure" or many other NORMAL words when discussing history/war/politics, RUclips will hide the comment - but sometimes they don't, it's a lottery! And it sometimes shows YOUR comment to YOU as a normal, but no one else can see it, so you don't even know it's been censored - apparently not even the channel creator! They should at least tell you if and why... oh hum. 🙁