Monster Melee - Mind Flayer vs. Drow Mage - GRUDGE MATCH!

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  • Опубликовано: 3 дек 2024

Комментарии • 118

  • @esperthebard
    @esperthebard  25 дней назад +4

    Eldritch Castle kickstarter: www.kickstarter.com/projects/1506416234/eldritch-castle-5e-module-with-animated-dungeon-rooms
    Also thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll put more of the UI display back in.

  • @simoneriksson8329
    @simoneriksson8329 25 дней назад +44

    I think it would be cool with a rematch were the drow mage brings some drow warriors and the mindflayer brings some minions of its own

    • @ChilleBruh
      @ChilleBruh 25 дней назад +2

      Love this!

    • @johngleeman8347
      @johngleeman8347 25 дней назад +7

      Tons of choices. Grimlocks, intellect devourers, tzakandi, voidmind ogres, duergar thralls.

    • @primeemperor9196
      @primeemperor9196 25 дней назад +7

      Here's an idea: What if a Drow Matron Mother decides she's had enough of dealing with an Elder Brain that has been causing problems for her house, so she gathers some of her house and they launches an attack against the Elder Brain's lair?
      Instead of making it a singular battle, maybe have the drow forces have to weather several waves of increasingly difficult waves of the Elder Brain's minions.

    • @jaypingol6707
      @jaypingol6707 24 дня назад +1

      To expand, it could be a series of 3 to 4 battles as the drow hit from different areas with the 'winners' getting some minor benefit and the others pulling back to regroup at the final push/defense of the Elder pool.

  • @theLizardof0z
    @theLizardof0z 25 дней назад +41

    Esper - I actually like having all the "clutter" on the screen. And with that said - yet another awesome battle. No way I'd expect a Drow Mage to stand and fight, unless his name was Gromph.

    • @Gnome5150
      @Gnome5150 25 дней назад +3

      @@theLizardof0z Gromph Baenre would probably come with a demon or two already in the shadows...

    • @BrankoSkrobica-fk2fs
      @BrankoSkrobica-fk2fs 25 дней назад +1

      Baenre?

    • @Gnome5150
      @Gnome5150 25 дней назад +1

      @@BrankoSkrobica-fk2fs house Archmage of house Baenre of Menzoberranzan

  • @ChilleBruh
    @ChilleBruh 25 дней назад +19

    Seconded idea of Drow getting House reinforcements, while the illithid gathers minions for a final showdown. Drow get a Surprise Round?

  • @rickspotten8497
    @rickspotten8497 25 дней назад +5

    As a DM, I do like seeing all the rolls. This is especially true with creatures that I'm not as familiar with. I've already decided to put a 1st level party against a herd of Cats at some point! Hahaha.

    • @Mortarion-xt9wp
      @Mortarion-xt9wp 24 дня назад +1

      You might want to introduce some sort of shrine dedicated to a cat god/goddess that provides the party with feline companions/cause the fight

  • @purplehaze2358
    @purplehaze2358 25 дней назад +5

    Genuinely shocked the drow mage had two rounds in a row where everything went just well enough to come out on top.

  • @Nasko_Nikolov
    @Nasko_Nikolov 24 дня назад +2

    Awesome video. I could imagine the drow mage just pointing and laughing at the illithid during the last two fights. Looking forward to a Monster Melee with a succubus/incubus, will be interesting to see what would you pit it against.

  • @MiagolioMaxwell
    @MiagolioMaxwell 24 дня назад +2

    With how coldly logical illithid are, I honestly think it should have dipped as soon as it saw the drow hit it with magic missiles and fly further away. Like, "I see where this is going and I'm not entertaining the idea." *[plane shifts]*

  • @straydog8178
    @straydog8178 25 дней назад +4

    Aboleth Vs Mindflayer
    Player characters from your Monstrous Heros book.
    Multi-battle royal.
    Great videos

  • @BillyBasd
    @BillyBasd 25 дней назад +6

    Drow mage got shafted on the saving throws. It's ridiculous that a Drow mage isn't proficient in his class save of intelligence.
    Wotc dropped the ball

  • @smoore6461
    @smoore6461 25 дней назад +10

    Mind flayers are a real terror to fight sometimes. I have had whole parties wiped by a single mind flayer almost as fast as that first round went. Great video Esper! I enjoyed that a lot. Running away is the best bet the Drow could use. I like seeing the rolls, but this looks nice too, whichever works best for you honestly. With imitative the mind flayer will never beat a mage like that I don't think.

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 25 дней назад +1

      In 5E you are correct. They have destroyed the Illythid completely.
      One of the most terrifying, most intelligent, most horrific of ALL creatures in DnD has become a brute barbarian that just jumps into Melee. The Mind Flayer has DESIGNED races. It has mutated races into monsters for its pleasures and work forces. The most feared denizen of the Underdark has become a typical encounter instead of something worthy of the Big Bad End of the Campaign finale monsters.
      Esper did great using the rules but 5E sucks. 😢

    • @smoore6461
      @smoore6461 24 дня назад +1

      @@redfaux74 I am really getting the feeling that 5e is NOT the D&D I used to play back in the day when I was playing 1st and 2nd. It seems in some real ways, 5e has done real damage to the game :(

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 24 дня назад +1

      @smoore6461 - But the good news is, you can tweak your game any way you want.
      That's what I did. It's like eating chicken. You eat the meat, not the bones.

    • @smoore6461
      @smoore6461 24 дня назад

      @@redfaux74 Sure homebrew is awesome, it's just too bad that the basic rules seem to have been so ruined and messed up. I guess you can still buy 1 and 2e books used if you dont want to play with 5e though so not as big a deal really.

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 24 дня назад +1

      @smoore6461 - I typed up 9 large binders of stuff when I was playing. 3 inch 3 ring binders full. It was a great time.
      They changed the game because people today can't add, subtract, focus for 10 minutes. The intelligence factor is gone. After playing a game for 10 years, you think people should have it down like greased lightning. We TAUGHT new people how to play as we went. It was easy. This nonsense of whoever rolls best goes first in combat every time is crazy. DnD was not Yatzhee. You FOUGHT to have a low intiative. A fast weapon, a high Dex. This advantage stuff is dumb.

  • @scottchadwick1247
    @scottchadwick1247 25 дней назад +3

    I like the dice log.

  • @arnijulian6241
    @arnijulian6241 25 дней назад +2

    Show how powerful a mind flayer is.
    The fact that making surviving is the best out come for most monsters of the same 7Cr.

  • @davidritch5921
    @davidritch5921 25 дней назад +6

    I like the minimalism!

  • @emperorjayzee1288
    @emperorjayzee1288 25 дней назад +2

    That first round was the most insane round of any of the monster melees you've done, it didn't even last a minute. I actually prefer to see the rolls and HUD on the bottom of the screen.

  • @ShadowWolfTJC
    @ShadowWolfTJC 25 дней назад +4

    I wonder if these kinds of matches could've instead been structured where both sides started off outside of the other's visual range instead of inside the other's visual range, so that they could rely more on out-of-combat abilities like perception (listening for sounds, and looking for signs of traps), stealth (avoiding detection by minimizing the amount of sound made, and sticking to the shadows), Darkvision (to lessen the need to use light sources to see, which enemies could also see), Polymorph Self into a rat (to hide in plain sight), Invisibility, or a familiar or Wizard's Eye (to scout out what's ahead), with the combat phase possibly starting after the 1st shot has been fired. Kind of like playing a tactical mission in X-Com: Alien Unknown for example, where both the player and alien forces are unaware of eachother's locations until they spot one or the other?

  • @ShadowSerpent2506
    @ShadowSerpent2506 25 дней назад +5

    Prediction before watching: Drow clutches with better spell usage and lucky saving throws?

  • @MrNobu93
    @MrNobu93 24 дня назад +1

    I enjoy seeing the numbers and chat

  • @metallicadragon8802
    @metallicadragon8802 25 дней назад +4

    Let's get ready to rumble 😮

  • @stevenlee.
    @stevenlee. 25 дней назад +2

    I think Strahd von Zarovich vs a mummy lord would make for an interesting match up

  • @zyxyx6754
    @zyxyx6754 25 дней назад +4

    I disagree on your interpretation that the drow mage won 2 out of 3.
    There was only 1 kill in those 3 matches and it went to the mind flayer. The other 2 ended in a draw.
    Therefore, mindflayer won.

  • @scarletfatefan8793
    @scarletfatefan8793 25 дней назад +3

    Looking forward to this

  • @asepsisaficionado7376
    @asepsisaficionado7376 9 дней назад

    The mind flayer could just wait until the duration of fly wears out.

  • @jasonreiyn9311
    @jasonreiyn9311 21 день назад

    I like the display you're using.

  • @Igarappappa
    @Igarappappa 25 дней назад +1

    Werewolf vs Unicorn! :D

  • @ybjtya4366
    @ybjtya4366 25 дней назад

    i prefer the clutter, great video as always tho, fascinating how one sided this matchup always seems to be in either direction

  • @johngleeman8347
    @johngleeman8347 25 дней назад +1

    Good luck selling your module Sir!

  • @MrOsteost
    @MrOsteost 24 дня назад +1

    Mind Flayers played a heavy part of the last arcs of my long running campaign. And my players learnt to fear them, even as they were level 18. Because all it takes is one failed saving throw, and you risk being dominated or out for several rounds (Or the entire battle, especially if they get their tentacles on you). Add some minions, and especially some Intellect devourers and it quickly gets a lot worse.
    The fight against the Elder Brain and its minions was one of the most brutal in the entire campaign. Simply because of the constant abilities to stun and dominate. Like a Mind Flayer with minions is bad enough, but the Elder Brains minions are even more Mind Flayeres. In addition to whatever else they have going for them.

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 23 дня назад +1

      Yes! When a powerfully psychic creature can sense thoughts like we hear noise.....
      That's crazy. When they can turn invisible, teleport, have a host of "pets" that travel with them, attack you from a great distance psionically like a charm person, hold person.... this is dangerous. 5E ruined these creatures. They were an ultimate nightmare. Now a 5th leben human can destroy them easily IN THE UNDERDARK of he's lucky with initiative. Crazy.

    • @MrOsteost
      @MrOsteost 23 дня назад

      @@redfaux74 There was a rather terrifying moment where one of the players was alone in the Mind Flayers underground tunnels, and was being hunted by them as they cast detect thoughts. Allowing them to constantly track what area he was hin.
      Or the level 15-16 Paladin who got Mind Blasted and then had his brain eaten by an Intellect devourer
      But I will say that while they aren´t as dangerous as in earlier editions (TBF Most things were more dangerous back then, the poison of the 2e Imp was fail or die) the 5e Mind Flayers are still pretty terrifying if they get to go. Either through minions or lucky rolls. I find that they make for good boss monsters (Through they should have minions for their battle) for level 5-10, and terrifyingly effective minions/lieutenants in higher levels.
      I will also say the whole scenario here is at odds with how I think a Mind Flayer would typically act. As it would not be caught in a one vs one in this manner, and would not just dash after someone it knew could easily outrun it. Like, to my knowledge Mind Blast don´t care about cover. So it could simply use it where it thinks he might be. Hold it as an action while taking cover, or use detect thoughts to know where he was if he ever got close enough.
      TBF, this is a white room scenario, so it does track with how it plays out. But it is akin to how a smartly played dragon wouldn´t land unless it had a very good reason to, and would simply strafe it´s enemies with its breath weapon.

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 23 дня назад

      @MrOsteost - Exactly. Esper is just doing Death Matches, 2D page rules only. It's entertaining. But Illythids would NEVER go hand to hand in a dungeon by itself. No Illythid would be by itself in a dungeon randomly strolling.
      But 5E has basically turned Illythid into barbarians with a fire extinguisher type attack. Their attacks and defenses are nothing compared to the ultimate nightmares they were.
      My biggest complaint about magic v psionics is spells are very specific. You cannot turn a spell off (normally) and use its unfinished potential. But with Psionics, you can levitate for 1 round, only spend the minimal points for 1 round and levitate is still available for its max potential next round if needed. Making everything into a magical equivalent from Psionics is a mistake to me. Now Psionics can be dispelled magically? That's bizarre.
      But I tweaked everything when I was playing and everyone loved it. They saw the pros and cons and it was too easy to implement. Even those who had no understanding of Psionics transitioned to Psionics in one way or another. Even the fighters. Only Telepathy got complicated. And that only in the beginning.

    • @MrOsteost
      @MrOsteost 23 дня назад +1

      @@redfaux74 I was not all that deep into how Psionics worked in earlier editions, apart from having read up on how it worked in 2e (And forgotten all I read) but I get your point. I have had the same thoughts about psychic abilities, that it is a shame they don´t feel more unique.
      One issue I have in general with 5e, is that it tends to lump a lot of things in together, while also be very vague about it. I especially struggled with this a lot in my game because one of my players had a Spellguard Shield that grants advantage vs magical effects, and I suddenly had to decide quite often whatever or not a creatures effect was magical or not (A classical example I have seen people ask about a lot is dragon breath, I rule it as non-magical but get why some might rule otherwise). Which is just a rather annoying thing having to constantly make judgement calls for.
      Something I think is kinda shame is that Mind Flayers can´t actually levitate horizontally, which I think is a shame because the picture of a Psycher/Mind Flayer hovering over the ground is such an iconic look (One can still just flavor it as such, but I think it is a shame it isn´t supported by the mechanics)
      It is one of the things I like about Pathfinder 2e, that it has a really solid tagging system.

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 23 дня назад

      @MrOsteost - I think Dragons got screwed too. I always took the most dangerous view for whatever a Dragon might have. My Dragons could ALL breathe fire, even the White ones. It was far less than their "Natural" breath weapon but it started from 6d10 plus 10 per age category (unlimited) to 12d10 plus per kind of Dragon. Their other actual Dragon Breath was 3x's per day but I added another variable for their age group and their Con. So minimum of 5 to 15 times (average 10) for that type of nuclear blast. No "recharge on a random d6 roll" crap.
      My Illythid could "Levitate" but it was like the Fly/FeatherFall (best of both worlds) spell. Any direction as effortlessly as we walk (12 move). If it wanted to "jog"/fly, use same rules for jog (24 move). If it wanted to triple its move (36), same rule for running (Con). This made it terrifying, and to me, realistic. But I used its Int for the Con movement duration.

  • @Gnome5150
    @Gnome5150 25 дней назад +5

    Too bad psionicist is no longer available as a class 😂 I'm sure mindflayers would have the edge then lol

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 25 дней назад +2

      That's the way it should be. 5E has destroyed the Illythid.
      No way is a Mind Flayer going to go into Melee combat. 😂😂😂

    • @Gnome5150
      @Gnome5150 25 дней назад +1

      @redfaux74 death of the illithid creeds from 2 edition and most of the in general lore from the Illithiad

    • @YllibD
      @YllibD 25 дней назад +1

      Absolutely.

    • @callanharvey6264
      @callanharvey6264 25 дней назад +2

      ​@redfaux74 yeah for real the few times I have run them I just home-brew them to have more spell-like abilities

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 25 дней назад +1

      @callanharvey6264 - That's better than what 5E did to them.
      But in my old games, they were med to high level Psionicists PLUS whatever extra powers the Monster Manual gave them. They were specialist Psionicists, not average Psionicists. They had powerful mental control over many creatures. They were never randomly encountered without several "pets". Their Psionic senses were extremely acute. They could sense thoughts for miles. And there were never just one Illythid.
      Imagine fighting a creature that can "read your thoughts". Knows what attack you are going to attempt next. Knows who the leader is. Knows your fears.... Illythid were meant to be horrifying monsters.

  • @internetcatfish
    @internetcatfish 25 дней назад

    I like seeing the die rolls and whatnot on the screen. I'm not familiar enough with all the monsters to know what they are actually rolling.

  • @redfaux74
    @redfaux74 25 дней назад

    I like the non cluttered screen but it doesn't bother me.
    Great entertainment Esper. ❤ I was waiting for this rematch.
    I think 5E has destroyed the Illythid like it has 75% of all the other greater monsters but....
    Illythid should have a huge host of psionic abilities in addition to what is listed. 5E has reduced them to almost Melee fighters with a "psychic fire extinguisher". 😂😂😂 In my game, you didn't see a Mind Flayer until you were lunch. The very last thing a Mind Flayer would do is enter Melee combat.
    But I know you are using a specific literal black and white format. And with that.... you did 100% magic. ❤

  • @jamescampbell2353
    @jamescampbell2353 25 дней назад

    I liked seeing the numbers tbh

  • @luchirri
    @luchirri 23 дня назад

    Don't like numbers or chat...this was great and more inmersive for me. Just the dice and you. 👍🤘🤘🤘🤘

  • @jeskebill
    @jeskebill 25 дней назад

    Cool rematch, but personally i preferred it when we saw the hud

  • @futurewario9591
    @futurewario9591 25 дней назад +2

    Gnomes VS Halflings
    or Gnomes VS Kobolds

  • @davidlewis8814
    @davidlewis8814 24 дня назад

    When a best-of-three basically comes down to who wins initiative, you have an even matchup, I think, no?

  • @SheevPalpatine
    @SheevPalpatine 25 дней назад

    What are your magic words for magic missile? I like when people role-play verbal spell components.

  • @nesakysiu4748
    @nesakysiu4748 25 дней назад

    definitely keep the dice UI, its also a learning experience

  • @matthewk320
    @matthewk320 25 дней назад +1

    I say this is a draw. Who starts first wins

  • @fhilbo1701
    @fhilbo1701 25 дней назад

    "Oooo Nae's Foor'sAah!!!"

  • @bastionsea2829
    @bastionsea2829 18 дней назад

    Monster Melee idea vampire vs werewolf, maybe multiple lycanthrope creatures to even the cr
    Perpetual moonlight

  • @takeyouforgranite7850
    @takeyouforgranite7850 24 дня назад

    Acererak vs Vecna would be cool to see next!

    • @LoarvicLoarvic
      @LoarvicLoarvic 21 день назад

      Or Vecna vs Kas. The ultimate rematch!

  • @marcospaniagua2697
    @marcospaniagua2697 25 дней назад

    Chat log is the way

  • @LetMeGetAUhhh
    @LetMeGetAUhhh 25 дней назад

    What software is he using for the dice rolls, monster portraits, movement etc.?

  • @MIDNIGHTBUNS
    @MIDNIGHTBUNS 18 дней назад

    hey esper i always love your monster melee and they are quite fun to watch but honestly i wanna see yeenoghu vs baphomet as in the lore those two always hate each other i wanna see what those two would look like going head to head against each other. altho it might be simple as both seem beastial in battle more so yeenoghu

  • @Shanho69er
    @Shanho69er 24 дня назад +1

    I like the clean interface. The " cluttered" interface didn't bother me. Good fight.

  • @blaringsea8923
    @blaringsea8923 25 дней назад

    Still no Elmar rematch?

  • @wichitadisciple9874
    @wichitadisciple9874 24 дня назад

    The mind flayer destroyed the drow mage last time. Hopefully the mage has a better plan this time.
    How much experience do you have running mages? I’ve always played a spell caster of some sort. They’re unbeatable if you plan right.

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 23 дня назад

      I think 5E is turning mages into Dragon Ball Z nonsense.
      It's becoming another type of damage. More d6 rolls, more colors, more flavors of attacks. The intellect is gone. When you simply "upcast" damage spells to get more dice of damage because higher level spells do not do as much damage as a 3rd level spell (Fireball) then the game needs to drop mages altogether.
      Psychic damage (yellow), necromantic damage (grey), force damage (light blue)... 🤢🤮 It has become dumb. I'm waiting for another color of damage (until that becomes offensive). I guess fire, acid, cold and lightning are over done.

  • @ramondejesus65
    @ramondejesus65 24 дня назад

    I feel like loosing the numbers chat is not worth the "extra" visuals.... Keep it, it's much better with the numbers

  • @markmongan
    @markmongan 25 дней назад

    Grats drow mage!

  • @Luciacanarias
    @Luciacanarias 25 дней назад +1

    ❤❤❤❤

  • @gymhayes4613
    @gymhayes4613 25 дней назад +6

    You ignored the drow mage is an elf. In its home environment. Its basically invisible. Each fight should have given the drow mage a surprise attack at the start.

    • @Solkan55
      @Solkan55 25 дней назад +5

      wouldn't the Mindflayer psychically know the mage was there? the mind blast is aoe so it wouldn't need to have an exact location just a general feeling.

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 25 дней назад +6

      It sounds like you are using 2E rules. 😂😂😂

  • @warsor1186
    @warsor1186 25 дней назад +2

    First

    • @esperthebard
      @esperthebard  25 дней назад +2

      You have won initiative! What do you do?

    • @warsor1186
      @warsor1186 25 дней назад +1

      @esperthebard leave a review. Basically this fight was so asymmetrical that it just boiled down to who wins initiative wins. Thanks to drow mobile options and flayer mind nuke stunlock it was nothing more then a rocket tag game. It does really reiterate your point about monsters designed to fight groups that can out action economy them, 1v1 leads to strange outcomes

  • @RachDarastrix2
    @RachDarastrix2 25 дней назад +1

    In real life when you defeat enemies in a death battle they don't come back, you just have the other enemies state "Actually you lost because"... And somehow most of the world ends up believing them.
    Apparently in DnD they can also get back up and demand a rematch.

  • @tjhookertj6923
    @tjhookertj6923 25 дней назад

    need to start the encounters at greater range, much farther away in general.

  • @bathhatingcat8626
    @bathhatingcat8626 25 дней назад

    With 5e rules? Why not just play mage knight? The board game thing. 5e is shite. I never thought idiocracy would become a documentary.

  • @Variable-2-actual
    @Variable-2-actual 25 дней назад

    Drow are super quick, and the usual first spell they cast is haste, then time stop if possible. It feels like your new to dnd.

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 25 дней назад +5

      That is an unfair and ignorant insult. 😢

    • @BuddhaMonkey7
      @BuddhaMonkey7 25 дней назад +5

      This particular drow mage only has up to 5th-level spells, so he's going to have some trouble casting time stop. He doesn't have haste either but let's leave that aside.
      Also, why would you cast haste before time stop instead of during? And why would a mage want to cast haste on themself instead of fly?

  • @bathhatingcat8626
    @bathhatingcat8626 25 дней назад

    Gods man, go back to your old comtent

    • @bathhatingcat8626
      @bathhatingcat8626 25 дней назад

      Content

    • @redfaux74
      @redfaux74 23 дня назад

      A lot more people are enjoying this than the other.
      He can do both.

    • @bathhatingcat8626
      @bathhatingcat8626 23 дня назад

      @@redfaux74 I tried to like it. Then I compared the Balor pit fiend fight to 3.5/pathfinder or even 1e or 2e. 5e is for 5 year olds.

  • @thegreatkabukino6639
    @thegreatkabukino6639 25 дней назад +2

    Ahhh I'm so happy to see the Drow Mage again lol Drow are my shit.