I grew up with an abusive mother. It's true that sometimes they can be really kind and sweet. This is what makes it all so confusing and causes abused children to blame themselves. How can a mother one day be kind and the next day be raging and beating you and ridiculing you. It took me until many many years of therapy and questioning myself before I accepted that I was abused. I let her do it until I was about 45 before I walked away for good. I'm 60 now and still have confused feelings about it. The thing with abusive parents is that you don't stop loving the parent, you stop loving yourself. It takes an awful lot of training to change that.
I wish more people understood this. It's annoying how many comments i see blaming the brothers for not leaving and reportingl to police. Because they're rich, they're physically strong they could've just left. Like damn if only it was that simple
@@crazywhirlwind Yes, it's easy to blame the victim when you were never around to witness the chaos of their childhood. The hardest thing to do is walk away from your parents, eventhough or maybe especially when they are abusive.
Thank you for sharing that. You’re not alone at all. I’m so glad you are in a better place and space, somewhere safe you always deserved. It can be hard to accept that because almost no one is 100% bad all of the time but that does not mean you deserve a second of the pain or hurt that a caregiver should never show a child. It is their responsibility to care for the child & not the other way around, & I’m sorry your early years were so warped. I pray you have supportive & kind & unconditionally loving people around you now as you always deserved ❤
@@crazywhirlwindyup, absolutely not that simple. Children are programmed to listen to, love, & need their parents, especially if they are young, but really through their whole childhood, adolescence, & adulthood. It is never, ever their fault for receiving abuse. Often the perpetrator can tell them incorrect information about the abuse, like it’s common, or deserved, or an accident, or telling will result in more harm… but it should never happen period & adults know better. Kids do not know, so I am disheartened at people with so little empathy to know how much bravery & strength to ask for help, particularly when kids are not always believed the first time or any time they tell.
Very well-said! Especially "You don't stop loving the parent, you stop loving yourself." And I'm so proud of you for walking away ans retraining yourself. You deserve love without judgment, friend.
The major issue with shows like this are they are inherently exploitative and twist the truth for drama. A lot of people will not do research on it and take it at face value. What's worse is that people will believe whatever narrative the show sells. Also media literacy among the general watchers is pretty bad. They really don't know how to tell truth from fiction. EDIT: if my comment makes you feel pissed off for some reason, You're overreacting to a GENERALIZED COMMENT. This is my view. I don't claim to be right or anything. It's my OPINION on shows of this type. You're entitled to your own thoughts. I am simply writing mine.
I think Ryan Murphy really sexualized the brothers the sexy dances and having sexual tension and the shower scene felt very gross and exploitive I'm fine with showing different perspectives but he made it tasteless. And him showing the boys side what he did show he didn't get a lot of it accurate. And the portrayal of lyle too. It all just bled together to the point where I was just like this is icky. Even my younger sister watching this who knows nothing about this case was like omg are the two brothers together. People who haven't done the research are getting the wrong idea and when they look up stuff see how exploitative it is
The question is, why did Ryan Murphy feel the need to lie and make the brothers seem incestuous when they were child sexual abuse victims? What is with Hollywood's incessant need to sexualize teenagers (which is the age he showed them in the shower together (something that never happened without their dad, btw)? Why did Ryan need to fabricate Erik questioning his sexuality? And why did Ryan need to make Lyle seem like an asshole psychopath that could cry on command? It's all so strange. The true story is JUST AS INTERESTING. I can only assume that Ryan Murphy got off on some weird thoughts about the brothers (mostly Erik), and then wrote it into the story.
He didn’t just make that ish up though. Those were literal rumors at the time. My mom was a teen when this case happened and everyone talked about it. I’m not saying it’s right. It’s def uncomfy to portray that and I’m sure it’s awful for the brothers themselves to see. And to say putting that in the show is wrong and gross, sure! But it is just a fact that, that was a rumor and assumption that a lot of people put onto the bros at the time. Murphy didn’t throw that in their because he likes incest.
@@AJ-kq8mm In the show, Ryan Murphy doesn't distinguish between rumors and reality. And most people aren't going to look up the truth. It's unnecessarily cruel. The boys were abused in the shower by their dad, so Ryan Murph does a shower scene in jail with Erik admiring one of the inmate's penis?! I mean..come on... that's beyond just getting creative with rumors. There have already been many other shows/movies about the brothers that have skewed the truth. As a society, we have already been there and done that. If Ryan wanted to be creative, maybe he should have tried something new. The truth. I do think Ryan has a thing for the incestuous brothers part; he capitalized on it and used the two boys naked as part of the teaser trailer. It's so gross, considering, in real life, the moment Lyle took the stand and admitted what he did to Erik was one of the most emotional, heartbreaking, and vulnerable parts of their testimonies. I might think Ryan Murphy was more innocent/naive in the situation, but the response he had to Erik's critique of the show (basically Ryan saying Erik hasn't even seen the show bc they don't have Netflix in jail) only confirmed to me that Ryan Murphy is an ass. And while the cast went to visit the brothers, Ryan refused.
@@wb6266I literally agree with you. He does seem like an ass but at the same time to say people won’t look up the case before forming an opinion like that’s Ryan’s fault? That’s on those dumb people for taking a TV show as fact or so literal. Movies and tv shows since their creation have dramatized and redone real life events more often than not quite a bit diff from how they actually happened. They’re very rarely truthful 100 percent because they’re shows. Meant for entertainment. Not meant to be informative. If people want straight facts they should do research or watch a documentary. And even then research and documentaries are never without certain biases. Idk. I get people criticisms. I really do. And I really do think some things in the show could’ve been handled more delicately. But I still also think the show was great and interesting and moving and I think media literacy in general has gone down the drain because to me it was quite obvious that the show is not claiming to be fact when they’re literally showing so many different perspectives. Eg the amount of people saying the show said the brothers touched eachother in the shower and that’s proof Ryan’s trying to say they were in a relationship, when it’s pretty clear that’s meant to be a depiction of a rumor because that scene is shown when the journalist is gossiping with other people. A director of a show shouldn’t have to put a disclaimer before every scene stating whether the scene is dramatized or a lie or made up. Criticize the morality of it, okay. But people’s expectations for this tv show are simply unrealistic and diff from every other tv show and movie that’s out simply cause they feel bad for the brothers.
Everything included in the show, incest and sexuality, were relevant rumors at the time of the original case. Some of those rumors were stared by Dominick Dunne, the character played by Nathan Lane. It sounds like it went over your head.
@@AJ-kq8mmwhat are you talking about ? They litterary admitted to it. Did you watch the trial ? One of the brothers admitted taking his brother into the woods with a toothbrush when he was angry and abusing him
Cant have sympathy for a person who did those things to 6 year old children.. and for another who actively enabled it. Ive seen all the court trials. Saw the cousins testimonies, ive seen the letter one them wrote telling one the cousins that wasnt admitted into evidence. Ive seen all the witnesses testimony addressing how mean kitty was to her children. And despite that how much both of them tried to be there for her and take her of her. And yes, of course they loved their parents. Abused children tend to love their parents regardless. They have no selfesteem at all, no sense of selve. They still want approval and love. Thats what so f/cked about what they went trough. The amount of confusion these men felt throughout their life’s. “We love of our parents, but also.. did what we did” , on trial they kept defending their parents imagine. People who was proven treated them horribly. Kitty’s therapist testified that she told the boys many times about how they ruined her life, how they where to blame for her life being horrible. And jose? Jesus… dont even get me going on that child mol$ster
exactly. that comment made me feel a little icky too. just goes to show how tragic erik and lyle’s story is bc at the end of the day, they were their parents and they loved them. but generational trauma and sayings they weren’t abusing them 24/7 doesn’t rlly humanize them at all. those monsters can’t be and SHOULDNT be humanized.
I saw the court videos too! it's so clear who has seen them and who hasn't. the people spewing cynicism and vitriol towards the brothers clearly have not taken the time to look at the details presented in court, and are just using their own reasoning and/ or what they've seen in the media, to come to conclusions.
@@ricegrain6880 those parents did NOT love those boys. the father stuck needles into Erik while he was r*ping him. he cut off the dog's head and put it in the fridge for the boys to find. he punched lyle in the stomach with the closed fist when Lyle was 5. the mother r*ped Lyle. that is the opposite of love in all ways.
Cooper Koch, the actor who played Erik, not only has been extreme praised for his performance, seemed to be the only one who truly looked at this from the perspective of a victim, has been the only one embraced by the brothers, but he has also been the only one to show regret and pain from how the brothers were portrayed. I think that his performance was so contrasted by the intent of Ryan that he actually might have filmed certain scenes with a different idea of how they would be used. Like, the incest scenes seem so outrageous that I can believably assume he thought they would be used as a tool to demonize the ugly rumors against the brothers. Instead Ryan actually portrayed them as truth. That’s vile. That is my theory because of how apologetic and remorseful he is, the embrace the brothers have given him and how he visited them and advocates for their release. The most telling part is the fact that Erik immediately hugged him when he visited them and this was AFTER the show debuted. That tells a lot. His words about their reaction were: "It definitely affected me and it made me feel things. [...] I understand how difficult it would be to have the worst part of your life be televised for millions of people to see. It's so exposing. I understand how he feels and I stand by him." In a situation in which you screwed up, be a Cooper; Not a Ryan. Ryan, in his comments about the reactions, seems to be wanting to represent the parents as well, and that’s not right.
Regarding Eric Menendez's complicated feelings toward his sexuality- if you're assualted multiple times/ regularly, some of those times you might have a biological response. From a child or young teenager's basic understanding wouldn't a biological response be viewed as liking it to some degree? That could confuse just about anyone let alone someone who has had only limited experiences. They simply do not know better. With regards to the use of the word "nice"- anything less than violent, less than uncomfortable, with even the bare minimum of softness could be categorised as "nice". This would of course be relative to his prior experiences with his father.
A great many men--look to Rome, Greece, or even now where a lot of people have secrets--are bisexual. I can only assume sexual abuse makes such issues more complicated
I do really get where Murphy is coming from when he tries to include different possible theories and perspectives on the story. However, the way it was executed did not sit well with me at all... I am all for nuance, but as we generally view things through the linear story telling, and the "truth" is usually slowly unravelled during a show... The last episodes do carry the most weight. By showing the brothers discussing premeditated murder of their parents, by showing the parents being a flawed but decent couple and by hardly focusing on the abuse in the later episodes, it -at least to me- felt as if this was the supposed main message of the show: that they did not act out of fear for their lives, but that it was premeditated. And because of this, it felt as if the show DID take a stance on what it believed to be te truth, siding with the opposition and framing the brothers as using the "abuse excuse".
Right. The thing is that there weren't too many different perspectives about the parents when it came to friends, family, associates, teachers, coaches, neighbors, etc. They all thought the parents were weird/awful/domineering/abusive/pathological/liars etc. To add nuance to the story Ryan had to lie, I mean, *cough*, get really creative. The show could have explored the nuance of mental stability when it comes to childhood trauma. It could have explored the nuance of spousal abuse. It could have done so many things with the truth. But he chose not to. I just don't get it.
Controversial opinion: Even if the murders were premeditated, a lifetime of abuse will mess up any ones mind. Ofcourse you end up spending alot of time thinking about how to rid yourself of your abuser. They needed rehabilitation not punitive measures. It doesnt have to be self defense for them to still be victims.
@mar-d8472 I know, I was also surprised when I finished the show that I felt that way. When I first heard the story I thought it was just two spoiled rich boys who killed their parents for the money but I watched the show and it made me really empathize with their perspective. I actually think showing it from all the different perspectives and adding in the shadow of doubt with premeditation and them changing their story so much, Lyle portrayed as violent made me empathize with them more because all those would be normal reaction to consistent merciless abuse. And if my father abused me my whole life and didnt buy me the car I wanted, I would be angry also...get atleast one thing right while raising me😄 People say the portrayals were inaccurate and hurt their case but I don't think they need to be "perfect victims" for us to empathize with them. Most victims aren't.
Okay the tapes with lyle talking on the phone aren't incriminating I have listened to them and he sound douchey but it corroborates what the boys said. He doesn't say anything about fake crying or anything. Because the police late searched the women's home and was like we listened to the tapes no one where on there does he say these thing Also the women that supposedly heard lyle say these thing came out and said Dominic DUnne had payed her to lie on lyle because he was pro prosecution
ryan murphy should never be trusted for accuracy, he could have made this show but changed the names and had it “inspired” by the brothers rather than making it seem like an actual dramatic biopic. then people would NOT have the same issues with the weird incest and exaggerations and it would probably do a lot better tbh.
With this cast it could have been an amazing show. The acting was incredible. It was funny. It was sad. It was scary. It depressed me especially the ending. The system failed. The abuse, the torture they went through and the show BARLEY touched just how bad it was for these boys. The incest was not needed to be shown between the boys or hinting that they were lying, because viewers who dont understand the story or the way tramua works. They label them liars and its heartbreaking to be called a liar when youre telling the world you were abused by your parents. I wish they would be released. Its surrel to think they hsve been in prison this long. Also agree the outfits are insanely good. I like a spoiled boy character in tv and movies. Im a sucker for it.
My dad asked me, his gay son, if the cinnamon trick really works. I was SPEECHLESS. then he realized what he was asking me and made the whole time watching the episode sooooo awkward
Chloe Savigney was amazing. She is such an underrated actress. I also love her on AHS and wish they would give her more screen time. The song is called "Dirty Cash" by The Adventures of Stevie V. Amazing 90s dance song. That whole Stevie V album was so good!
A lot people were upset that Jose was shown to be sexual abused by his mother. They assumed that Ryan Murphy made it all up for the drama. Not realizing that it was Jose's sister , Marta, accounts of his sexual abuse. They felt bad for him for a split second and it made them angry. Jose is most definitely not the poster child of a perfect victim. Our society is obsessed with the perfect victim. Life is shades of gray but people judge in black and white.
My husband was watching this and I was just doing other stuff and Nicholas Chavez made me stop in my tracks and become obsessed with this show. What an incredible performance
I disagree with some of your conclusions but I actually enjoyed this review and seeing this show from a different perspective. I totally get what Ryan Murphy was trying to do with the show but don’t think it was executed well. I came away thinking the show was kind of a confusing mess. Other than that my main gripes were some of the weird inaccuracies/creative liberties they took. Lyle’s characterisation in particular was just so ridiculous to me (even though the actor was great). He was just so over the top that it wasn’t believable but I guess if you view it from the angle of an exaggerated version of how the media at the time portrayed them then it kind of makes sense. Lyle also never told Norma Novelli that he fooled the jury. He certainly comes across as obnoxious and somewhat manipulative on those tapes in real life but he never suggests that anything was fake. Overall I mostly enjoyed the show for the performances but the execution just wasn’t there for me.
Yeah, for me, this show was my first introduction to the case. I definitely thought that Lyle was the manipulator/had ASPD, and Eric was "just" dragged into it. But after additional (albeit limited) research, I think the show did a rather bad job at portraying the brothers. Especially Lyle, but somewhat Eric as well.
@@SammyLammy1D The expert who evaluated Lyle also concluded that he didn't have ASPD. He was just extremely repressed due to the abuse and brainwashing he experienced
I do like the point you made about episode 5, how that episode is the show kind of telling us that is the real story of what happened to the brothers. The one issue I have is Erik's face in the final shot of the episode. He stops crying and has that slight smirk as if almost to say "this is the story I am going with, was it convincing?" (at least that's what I get from it). That shot has to be purposeful. I personally think that was done to show how much confusion/mystery there was in the case. No one but the boys and their parents knew their relationship and the show understands that.
I interpret the smile as “yea…that’s it. That’s my story. You happy now?” Because he was so hesitant to answer her questions, and reveal the truth, he smiles through the pain. I have done this, as a victim. Smiled at the ridiculous situation I was in when I was telling the story, usually under pressure to answer someone else’s curiosity.
The thumbnail for this is fucking hilarious 😂 I've been looking forward to your review. I literally watched this series so I could watch your review lmao
I would have watched Netflix's Mendez Series: Monsters even if Marshall had not planned on reviewing it, but I binged it to watch the video immediately.
The bar for appreciation might run along the same lines as people’s ability to hold multiple conflicting truths at once. Using multiple perspectives to tell the story more as the general public would have perceived it, acts as a criticism of how we consume the trauma of other people’s lives for our entertainment. If society wasn’t consuming true crime Ryan Murphy wouldn’t have an audience. We wouldn’t be discussing it on social media. He’s holding up a mirror and if it illicits a strong reaction in some that’s because we aren’t ready to face it. The performance in episode 5 was so clear and compelling. Similar to the testimony of both boys. Any human soul who could watch them and not feel the truth and pain needs to work in their humanity. While skepticism is necessary in life, too many use it as a defense mechanism. The way we saw the reporter over time return to his biases after being moved by the boy’s testimony was very realistic. His POV wasn’t the truth. It was his coping mechanism on display.
you starting this video out praising the series after praising dahmer honestly bothers me. the portrayal of the brothers in this is so far from accurate. please don't praise ryan murphy for this.
Absolutely agree with you, this show was very much about painting the picture that the prosecution, defense, media, were serculating at the time, unfortunately i dont feel that the show was very clear about it. Maybe if they had explored it through the eyes of each juror on the trial, each episode use a different juror it would have been clear that this is how people thought opposed to what the boys were like. I didn't realize what the show was doing till i read the book by Robert Rand. It took me almost 2 days to realize that the director was saying, we know the boys are guilty but did they deserve life in prison, and we know the parents were guilty of abuse but did they deserve to die? Great concept, maybe not the best execution
I got it right away however I was already well versed in the case and all the characters involved as well as the rumours that circulated at the time so that might be why, a person with little or no knowledge of the case who watches this show might not get the directors vision right away or even at all.
there is no nuance in this case. The parents were child rapists and their two sons weren't the only victims. there's no excuse for defending child rapists and painting them in a good light, as Murphy has tried to do in this garbage show.
Finally someone that agrees with me. I think the show was great and depicts the complex relationships that a family dynamic has. This case is so tragic, it also shows how we have grown as a society. I don't belive they would've gotten the same sentence today as they did in the 90's. Also refreshing to not watch a show about yet another serial killer that already has had their story told a million of times. This case is so interesting in so many different ways, the case itself, the public, the 90's and the messy trails.
Also noticed that Lyle never called his parents mom and dad he always said kitty and José in the court room calling their real name or my parents but with Eric he always said my brother😢 i feel like he killed his parents for Eric's freedom from his dad sexual abuse and i think he was guilty to blame him self for what he did to Eric when they were young the wood story😢 ,that's why he so emotional and over protective to his brother he stood up for his brother trew every thing he has for eric
Ok never watched a video from you before but jeepers you really get it, you are smart af. Everyone is so busy pearl-clutching after watching half the show they don’t see how amazing this achievement is
They play Milli Vanilli because Milli Vanilli were two guys that faked it for money and greed, and some of the other guys, and they completely say that they were conceited
my problem with the show is why they felt the need to make things up when the real story is right there? in the court videos, told by actual witnesses? anybody who thinks that the people who hated the show are over reacting obviously never watched the court videos or know a lot about the case. it was grossly exaggerated and about 70% of it was dramatized or completely made up bs. Lyle was basically a fictional character it was laughable
You know what, I really appreciate the creativity that they did in the show, the way that it shows different perspectives for atleast every single episode is really bold and smart. I think the series itself is great. But is this the type of show that the Menendez Brothers really need? Considering the situation that they're in right now? I think that's the reason why I cannot fully love the show, because instead of showing the audience the whole truth, the series kind of takes back the audience to the view of the general public during the times of the trial, which was very conflicting at the time. So is that really what the Menendez Brothers really need?
This happened over 20 years ago, and they’ve had over multiple documentaries published. It’s not about what they need, it’s something Murphy brought attention to just like Dahmer. He has the right to do so and we have the right to critique his work.
Marshall Stannus be THE MAN! Thank you for such a thoughtful, insightful, highly intelligent, and well-researched review. How, oh how, I wish I had Netflix. Thirty years ago, I was disgusted by the court of popular opinion around the Menendez brothers. However, I knew that if one hasn't experienced that kind of abuse firsthand, it would be rather difficult to wrap one's head around such drastic behavior. I was abused every which way growing up. My heart goes out to the Menendez brothers. I believe they acted out of desperation, not knowing how to get proper outside help. (Perhaps, there was no outside help to be had.) Extremely sad situation. Fortunately, my own generational abuse story ends with me. Bless you, Marshall. So very impressive you are.
Thank you so much for mentioning the soundtrack! I thought the music choices were amazing and the score was so well written! I think these both really helped to shape this season and put us in that time period.
I'm glad you brought up episode 5 and how impressive the acting was there. When I was watching it, I realized that that entire segment where Eric is talking to his lawyer was 1 take, and that absolutely blew me away! Being able to keep up that type of an acting performance continually for that long is incredibly impressive!!
Hi guys so, my section on “DIMES” at around 30-35 mins in got butchered by copyright so some of what I say has been removed Basically I loved the section- loved Eric’s body language and Lyle stepping into protect, it was incredibly captivating, well edited, satisfying and compelling, probably my fave part of the show, ashame I couldn’t include my section
pretty crazy for murphy to write lyle as a egotistical angry maniac based off oziels testimony saying he was angry when he called to say his brother confessed vs all of his family member saying he was charming and one of the most kindest people ever since he was a kid
It feels like whenever lyle expressed anger when rightly so. They ran with it as if that is his whole character trait. When everybody who knew him said he was a calm and quiet person.
The disproportionality of the backlash, and how uninformed it seems, is apparently becoming the norm for media. 'Transgressive', or simply honest, is out. I do believe that the biggest problem with the series is that it's about real people, but after seeing the reaction to Dahmer I don't know if the sort who levy that criticism are serious individuals who actually WATCHED either of the shows in their entirety.
I really tried to watch the Netflix version with open mind but having watched the actual trial and all the other documentaries related to this I think the “twisting of truth for tv” is kinda too much. Its probably good for people who doesn’t know or heard of the Menendez Brothers before this series.
I’m glad that I watched your review. It helped provide some perspective as to why Ryan Murphy may have shown some things. I felt like he made some parts perverted in a way that it didn’t belong. I know that a lot of people were upset with the portrayals. One great thing about this series is that it’s renewed interest in the case. During the trial itself, I was too young to understand everything and simply believed they were evil, money hungry people. Now, having lived through so much and knowing we have so many monsters raising children, I absolutely believe them and feel as though they should be released. I don’t necessarily feel as though the crime they committed should’ve gone unpunished, but hearing the actual testimony and realizing two things can be true, they’ve experienced enough. It’s highly possible one or both of them could be cold, psychotic and committed premeditated acts due to sexual abuse. These two things can exist. Finally, as someone who has survived horrible abuse a child, you can absolutely grow into an adult who has no sympathy, empathy or emotional connection to the family member(s) who did that to you. I can absolutely understand how they could go on shopping sprees almost immediately after what happened-that doesn’t make it right.
I just finished and I got to say I love this show. I love how it bounces sides. It does an amazing job at show the monstrous sides of both the brothers and the parents in my opinion
I agree wholeheartedly with your review. The show was not meant to show "the truth" because the truth ultimately can never be known by us, the show highlights the different perceptions and perspectives of the people involved including the mass media and public opinions circulating. The acting was incredible, the show was nuanced and not black and white so for people who do not want to think critically and just see people as all good or bad will obviously not like a show that plays with reality shifting. Also, this show really highlighted what can happen in families who experience intergenerational abuse and I think it advocates for survivors of abuse. I disagree with the rotten tomatoes reviews, I think people are afraid to say they liked the series because of the complicated themes present. This was one of the best series that I have watched in a long time, it was very compelling and I think it was a fair portrayal of this event and these people.
Great commentary man good to see a thoughtful breakdown of the impressive filmmaking through the series. Art like this takes time and dedication and it’s a shame the reception is taking the art that challenges us for granted.
2 месяца назад+4
At first I thought the final scene was meant to be the parents in heaven! The angelic lighting…that thing about the wreck below being circled by the sharks maybe referring to the boys’ situation down on earth. Plus their dark sides are gone and they’re acting like purified versions of themselves.
I am in the middle of it and I have watched the trial and interviews and the personality of Lyle does not fit the one shown in the show. I also find it inappropiate to sexualize the brothers because sex in the whole story is a very serious and harmful matter. Unnecessary.
Your analysis is spot on. Haven't seen nearly enough level-headed, media-literate reactions to this show, so thanks for sharing. You highlight some really great stuff this show is doing that has unfortunately been overshadowed by a lot of mostly overblown, knee-jerk outrage. It's a shame people have such a low tolerance for subtlety, and moreover, that they seem to feel only the purest of saints deserve sympathy, when no such saints exist, and certainly not in this story. For what it's worth, as someone with zero knowledge of this case before watching Monsters, I came to feel a ton of sympathy and sadness for Erik and Lyle both--flaws and all--by the end of the series, even before looking into more factual sources. While it's not by any means a perfect show, it is a compelling and complex one that ultimately gives credence to the brothers and respect to survivors.
I honestly agree with everything you have said! People don’t use critical thinking with most things and the way media is normally portrayed dulls people’s understanding of levels of abuse/emotion and how this affects every person in any situation.
Lyle never said he fooled the jury, he just gave the overall impression that the jury siding with the defense was ultimately more important to him than the truth (at the time)
I think people who criticize the show for misrepresentation do not get the point. Yes the brothers in this show were misrepresented. Yes there were things that were inaccurate. The question is why? There’s a couple of possibilities. Maybe the director was just ignorant but this is highly unlikely as the show producers did extensive research, even pulling court documents, into creating the show. Maybe the producers of the show wanted to over dramatize the show for profit. This is also unlikely considering that an accurate dramatization and an inaccurate dramatization would have likely resulted in about the same amount of profit considering the popularity of the case. You could even argue an accurate portrayal would have spared the show some criticism which would have resulted in more profits. Maybe Ryan Murphy is just vile and enjoys misrepresentation. That’s also highly unlikely considering the compassionate and empathetic light he showed towards the victim in Dahmer and to even Dahmer himself (although he did not ask permission from the victims which would have been the right thing to do). In Dahmer, he showed the racial lens through which the crimes occurred, a take that is extremely understanding and grounded in the politics of the time. So then why would he portray the brothers in such an erratic way, going back and forth from compassionate to nonsensical. The last possibility is the most likely: He is trying to portray the brothers the way the public and the media thought of them at the time. Ryan Murphy, like many of us, knows that the real truth of the murders and what happened will remain secret so there is no point in trying to portray the crimes in an accurate light as doing this would require him to side with one opinion or another. Would he choose the reporters POV, the brothers POV, the prosecutions POV, the media’s POV. Well, he chose to portray all of them in the most disorientating way possible. Much like Dahmer criticizes the inbuilt racism and homophobia in the criminal justice system, The Menéndez Brothers criticizes the media sensationalism that often follows such a crime.
I do believe that they wanted their parents' money, But the abuse is what made them capable of doing what they did. I don't think they're psychopaths, Or sociopaths. They're traumatized. They deserved prison, But with a chance of parole.
I don't think they deserved prison because most people actually don't, I work medical in a men's prison. Prison literally does nothing btw and they come out far more traumatized and more likely to end up back in. The only people I genuinely think should be permanently in prison are people who are genuinely dangerous people and sex offenders as they cannot be in the general population without hurting someone. But what they needed was probably extreme mandatory therapy, restrictions, and to be in a half way house for awhile and continued monitoring throughout their lives to make sure they are stable and safe
I think people are kind of missing the point of this show in a way- It’s to truly show ALL sides of the different stories. Because at the end of the day- we don’t know what is true and what isn’t. And I think that comment at the shrinks office was supposed to portray that- when he said “an aggravated circumstance” and Erik says “yeah they were really aggravating.” I don’t think that was supposed to be comedic relief, I think that was supposed to truly buckle you in for a roller coaster of so what is it? I know I speak for almost everyone when I say no one what’s to deny a victims story, no one wants to questions a victims account of something- BUT, this entire show is to truly capture the fact that it all could just be that. A story- but how it could also be a mix of a lot of different truths. I love how in the final 2 episodes they really show every single possible scenario, of how the boys are brats and abusive to their parents, and that there may also be some abuse from their parents as well, or how the boys are just abusive, and there was no abuse, and this was a fabrication. Or a mix of both. Lyle having those recorded conversations of him basically saying it’s false, or them never bringing it up to the therapist, even when Erik was suicidal at a point riddled with guilt, and the therapist was trying to coax him into telling him something to make it self defense and he was blank- Lyle hyping Erik up, multiple times, telling him he’s an actor. The proof that Lyle was writing and calling friends and family trying to get them to lie for them at trial. I really think the show does an amazing job of covering every possible aspect and situation. The parents eating ice cream watching tv- or that they could have been asleep together on the couch. Every bit of it is to show not the monster in everyone but the innocence in everyone. To show that this could have gone so many ways and at the end of the day we will NEVER know the truth.
I haven't finished it yet (on ep 5 rn) but I'm liking it so far. The only thing that I do agree with twt and clutching-pearls type of people is that since this is based on real people, its definitely side eyeing how they portrayed part of the brothers relationship. If this wasn't a real case, I'd be totally fine with it because ykw, fiction is fiction and I'm tired of people making it as if you're condoning stuff irl just bc you consummed it. However, talking only about the show itself, you're right that it did a great job with the storytelling, acting, the reveals and technical aspect. I just wish such cases didn't exist in real life, it's heartbreaking to think about that.
from even before the show started, i was like, is ryan murphy gonna be weird about the brothers, will this be an incest thing. by the end of the show, it's clear that's not something they're interested in beyond the rumor of. so the shower scene very much read like just that, a rumor that people were speculating about, it was put in with other speculations, it was mean to not be taken seriously. but the scene that bothered me was the one in episode, where coked up lyle kisses eric and they get weirdly sensual on the dance floor with people watching them weird. because, yeah maybe that's also part of "how the public viewed them" with the lavish lifestyle and everything, but that scene felt like it was not there for a narrative purpose. it was there because it's episode 2 of a netflix show, and they wanted a tantalizing clip that would make people talk about them, have people get mad and not click off the show, and be like "look, sexy guys dancing together, they might kiss!" basically everything about that scene, in the context of the show, felt like it was there for exploitative reasons, and it was really unfortunate, considering the show is good, why are you tainting it with this scene
My friend and I literally were talking about how the show would be much better if he based it on these events but made it very clear it was a stand alone show for entertainment. Like change the names and some other things out of respect and it would be much more watchable, I only have a problem with it being real ppl.
The show was well made yes. It is a horrible awful thing that they did yes. The problem is that they sexualized the relationship between Erik and Lyle and if someone goes into the show not knowing anything they’re going to believe everything that they watch and that’s just exploitive and not okay.
Another amazing review! I love how you pointed out how the show produces a confused reaction from the audience as both sides of the case are depicted, which also mirrors the experience of Eric and other abuse victims as their abusers aren't abusing 24/7. I feel like in that way the show subtly provides another defense for the brothers as it shows their inner conflict despite the abuse. The only this i disagree with is I felt like the show was dragging after halfway. And especially during the Dom episode because I felt like his dinner party scenes were repeated a lot. Although, I will admit part of that was because I found the content of the show (as someone not familar with the case) very upsetting and I wanted it to end.
I feel the pacing and placement of the episodes lead to the conclusion they are guilty. I feel like hearing their actual testimony rather than the acted out parts would have been more impactful. like either Lyle and Eric Menendez are some of the greatest actors to walk this earth or they are genuinely in pain while the relay the pain they claim they went through. and I just don't think watching a fabrication of that (which the audience knows is fake cause its tv actors) can ever really imitate that also personally for me the brutality of what happened is irrelevant, my only quip is if they were abused (for the record I believe them). and given how horrendous the abuse was I honestly hope they waited like 15-20 mins before coming back in to finish the job so she had to wait in fear and pain
It is so hard to figure out the truth when it comes to this case. It really was hard for me to understand why they wouldn’t have said anything about the SA sooner if it is true. After thinking about it more & realizing how much different times were back then when it came to SA & especially SA with boys & it being family ppl jus didn’t understand how big of a prob it was back then & figured any guy would fight back ect ect but no1 knows what they will do until in the situation themselves. I do now believe they were SA by there dad & was just to embarrassed or didn’t think people would believe them. I mean they still try & victim blame today so it must have been a lot worse in the past. Thanks & gods bless every1.
They did say!! The hospital found clear evidence of SA because he was in pain and said to the school. The hospital took X-rays and examined one of them and it was clear evidence!! Their dad was part of Hollywood, a well protected man!! Look at diddy, epstine, savile, Tom hanx, Kevin spacey, the SA on the casting couch, operah, the BRF, all the sick stuff at the mansion…… rich people who SA small people are wrapped up in so much protection…… the hospital found it clear as day! Was it allowed into evidence? Of course not! The police the justice system are all In on the game too!
That’s funny, I always thought Ryan Murphy used the Don’t Dream it’s Over song because it is by a band called Crowded House and that was sort of a wink to the viewer that the house was too crowded for the whole family to continue existing with each other…or something along those lines.
They also tried to make Erik “gay” with the prison sequence which was really off putting to me. He and his brother are both straight men, who are married with wives and a daughter. Highly disrespectful to male victims.
I just think they ruined the character with Lyle I can’t tell you how many times I was pissed off at the character for doing stupid shit over and over again. “Fulling the jury” that was just stupid.
I feel like a lot of you haven’t actually seen the show 🤣 the show explores multiple angles of what could have been. Everyone has something to say but most too too brain attention span haven’t watched the ENTIRE season.
Really great review! You hit a lot of good points and made me think a little more open minded. I really enjoyed the performances from Cooper Koch and Nicholas Chavez. Even those who have a distaste for Murphy’s depiction can admit this cast was solid. Keep up the great work!
I haven't seen the show although I'm planning to do so to make my own opinion about it. However, I have heard the different opinions about the show itself and also I've seen the actual tapes of the trial, the accusations and the argument of the defense. If the show made what you are saying, I totally get it. But I also think that Ryan Murphy could have been more respectful on his statments regarding the Menedez family and Erik's critism to the show. Like, at the end of the day are their names and their story. Lastly, I think some of the posters are inapropiate and make the product seem like a completely different thing at first sight.
Not a fan of Ryan Murphy's brand of television and never have been. Feels so exploitive and wrong somehow, super icky. Not denying that the Menendez brothers were almost certainly abused but Ryan Murphy peddles in fear and propaganda so I have no credence re his narrative.
I understand why people feel the way the do towards what Ryan chose to do with the borthers' relationship, however i don't get why they're so up in arms about it... This is a SERIES, not a Documentary, it was meant to entertain, not portray the truth necessarily. Imagine just how boring The Glory would have been had the rest of the story not been added, and then you find out that in real life the abusers walked away scot free.... who would want to watch that??? If it weren't for serializations, i would NOT have had any interest in looking up anything about both stories, which archived exactly what it should have, Entertain and Interest people. I don't even believe people would have talking about this if it weren't for it and the writer/director's choices, and Netflix knew what they were doing given thay they chose to make a series AND a documentary.
Lyle’s character was actually so charming and funny to me lmao but yeah about what people are complaining about-the show was just visualizing different theories it wasn’t saying that the brothers for sure kissed or had a love affair so I think people are being dramatic like even at the end the show said “we probably won’t ever know what happened between that family”. And I get that it can get confusing to the audience but a documentary from the brothers side is coming out soon so there’s that to clear it up. Also I loved their style ALOT. As well ass every-time people get mad at the portrayal I’m like it’s the same thing with gypsy like I’m on their side regardless but they still…killed their parents like stop acting like they’re babies. Also I feel like if they were lying why would they also say Lyle touched him with how close they are like I believe them.
To be fair it’s understandable that people would be mad about presenting a theory that the brothers were incestous with each other because it’s beyond ludicrous and is backed up by no evidence whatsoever. I get what Ryan was trying to do with the show but the execution isn’t great.
As someone who was starting uni when these guys were arrested, the portrayal on the boys is not exaggerated as a device or technique. The glam and conspicuous consumption was the tail end of the 1980s and they were considered odious characters through their demeanour and what they said.
I loved the show but then I feel bad because Eric’s whole life was completely taken from him. That 1 take episode where he talks about his abuse was stellar.
Great review. I do agree with the idea of all the different perspectives recreated showing just how hard people didn’t know what to think of the whole situation at the time. That last scene was really interesting the earlier comment about fishing for sharks late in the day and how that was suspicious to the boys but then Jose saying he doesn’t know the first thing about fishing sharks..
I agree wholeheartedly with this video's thesis, BUT... it's really no surprise the show was so misunderstood. It was so subtle in its portrayal of the brother's characters, I think in a world as media-literacy-uncultured as ours, it was inevitable people would dislike it. I watched it with my mom (she's not stupid, it's just that schools don't really teach us peoper media literacy) and her take-away was that the parents were utterly innocent.
*Vision I’ve been patiently waiting for this video since I watched The Hurt Man episode and was like damn, this is actually really good? In that aspect at least
Also regardless how u feel about the way the show told the story ect ect it was still very well done in my opinion. If it was just fiction show about this I feel that every1 would love it.
I get that this is an interpretation of the real life story, and doesn't have to be 100% accurate, but moments like Lyle's shouting in like every scene he was in first two episodes (while that's not how he acted irl, and it just made him look like an unstable person with anger issues) and constant sexualization of the main characters while them being victims of SA seems like pretty poor choices. Also moments with brothers having sexual tension and kissing at some point...what even is this? As I understood scenes like this portrayed different visions of the situation (brothers', media's), etc., but some scenes felt really unnecessary and confusing of what the director wants to say.
I think the director was personally attracted to the idea of incest between the brothers
It was a known rumor during the time of the murders..so it was in the show like other things portrayed on the show…obviously
He’s a pervert! Disgusting!
@@samiachambers3401um did you watch the trial? One of the brothers admitted taking the other one into the woods with a toothbrush
@@anja480 because he was sexually abused...??? google COCSA thats a common thing that happens with victims.
@@anja480 also that happened when they were like 6 years old not when they were adults
I grew up with an abusive mother. It's true that sometimes they can be really kind and sweet. This is what makes it all so confusing and causes abused children to blame themselves. How can a mother one day be kind and the next day be raging and beating you and ridiculing you. It took me until many many years of therapy and questioning myself before I accepted that I was abused. I let her do it until I was about 45 before I walked away for good. I'm 60 now and still have confused feelings about it. The thing with abusive parents is that you don't stop loving the parent, you stop loving yourself. It takes an awful lot of training to change that.
I wish more people understood this. It's annoying how many comments i see blaming the brothers for not leaving and reportingl to police. Because they're rich, they're physically strong they could've just left. Like damn if only it was that simple
@@crazywhirlwind Yes, it's easy to blame the victim when you were never around to witness the chaos of their childhood. The hardest thing to do is walk away from your parents, eventhough or maybe especially when they are abusive.
Thank you for sharing that. You’re not alone at all. I’m so glad you are in a better place and space, somewhere safe you always deserved. It can be hard to accept that because almost no one is 100% bad all of the time but that does not mean you deserve a second of the pain or hurt that a caregiver should never show a child. It is their responsibility to care for the child & not the other way around, & I’m sorry your early years were so warped. I pray you have supportive & kind & unconditionally loving people around you now as you always deserved ❤
@@crazywhirlwindyup, absolutely not that simple. Children are programmed to listen to, love, & need their parents, especially if they are young, but really through their whole childhood, adolescence, & adulthood. It is never, ever their fault for receiving abuse. Often the perpetrator can tell them incorrect information about the abuse, like it’s common, or deserved, or an accident, or telling will result in more harm… but it should never happen period & adults know better. Kids do not know, so I am disheartened at people with so little empathy to know how much bravery & strength to ask for help, particularly when kids are not always believed the first time or any time they tell.
Very well-said! Especially "You don't stop loving the parent, you stop loving yourself." And I'm so proud of you for walking away ans retraining yourself. You deserve love without judgment, friend.
The major issue with shows like this are they are inherently exploitative and twist the truth for drama. A lot of people will not do research on it and take it at face value. What's worse is that people will believe whatever narrative the show sells. Also media literacy among the general watchers is pretty bad. They really don't know how to tell truth from fiction.
EDIT: if my comment makes you feel pissed off for some reason,
You're overreacting to a GENERALIZED COMMENT. This is my view. I don't claim to be right or anything. It's my OPINION on shows of this type.
You're entitled to your own thoughts. I am simply writing mine.
"media literacy" ..... you people love repeating buzzwords you see on the internet....
@@alejandromolinaclol this is so true. My 17 year old knew it was exaggerated.
@alejandromolinac did you feel personally targeted because you're one of those people I was talking about? Haha
@@may.k_me clearly you did or you wouldn't have @ me ,good try but you're very transparent
Of course it’s exaggerated it’s not a Documentary. If you watch the whole show different episodes play from a different point of view.
I think Ryan Murphy really sexualized the brothers the sexy dances and having sexual tension and the shower scene felt very gross and exploitive I'm fine with showing different perspectives but he made it tasteless. And him showing the boys side what he did show he didn't get a lot of it accurate. And the portrayal of lyle too. It all just bled together to the point where I was just like this is icky. Even my younger sister watching this who knows nothing about this case was like omg are the two brothers together. People who haven't done the research are getting the wrong idea and when they look up stuff see how exploitative it is
Wow. You didnt get the point of this
You are so right!!!!!
Icky is the right word. I can't stand Ryan Murphy. He gives me the ick.
Child abuse is icky.
Was the scene where they blasted the parents to oblivion ya know, when they murdered the parents with shotguns, was that "icky"
The question is, why did Ryan Murphy feel the need to lie and make the brothers seem incestuous when they were child sexual abuse victims? What is with Hollywood's incessant need to sexualize teenagers (which is the age he showed them in the shower together (something that never happened without their dad, btw)? Why did Ryan need to fabricate Erik questioning his sexuality? And why did Ryan need to make Lyle seem like an asshole psychopath that could cry on command? It's all so strange. The true story is JUST AS INTERESTING. I can only assume that Ryan Murphy got off on some weird thoughts about the brothers (mostly Erik), and then wrote it into the story.
He didn’t just make that ish up though. Those were literal rumors at the time. My mom was a teen when this case happened and everyone talked about it. I’m not saying it’s right. It’s def uncomfy to portray that and I’m sure it’s awful for the brothers themselves to see. And to say putting that in the show is wrong and gross, sure! But it is just a fact that, that was a rumor and assumption that a lot of people put onto the bros at the time. Murphy didn’t throw that in their because he likes incest.
@@AJ-kq8mm In the show, Ryan Murphy doesn't distinguish between rumors and reality. And most people aren't going to look up the truth. It's unnecessarily cruel. The boys were abused in the shower by their dad, so Ryan Murph does a shower scene in jail with Erik admiring one of the inmate's penis?! I mean..come on... that's beyond just getting creative with rumors.
There have already been many other shows/movies about the brothers that have skewed the truth. As a society, we have already been there and done that. If Ryan wanted to be creative, maybe he should have tried something new. The truth.
I do think Ryan has a thing for the incestuous brothers part; he capitalized on it and used the two boys naked as part of the teaser trailer. It's so gross, considering, in real life, the moment Lyle took the stand and admitted what he did to Erik was one of the most emotional, heartbreaking, and vulnerable parts of their testimonies.
I might think Ryan Murphy was more innocent/naive in the situation, but the response he had to Erik's critique of the show (basically Ryan saying Erik hasn't even seen the show bc they don't have Netflix in jail) only confirmed to me that Ryan Murphy is an ass. And while the cast went to visit the brothers, Ryan refused.
@@wb6266I literally agree with you. He does seem like an ass but at the same time to say people won’t look up the case before forming an opinion like that’s Ryan’s fault? That’s on those dumb people for taking a TV show as fact or so literal. Movies and tv shows since their creation have dramatized and redone real life events more often than not quite a bit diff from how they actually happened. They’re very rarely truthful 100 percent because they’re shows. Meant for entertainment. Not meant to be informative. If people want straight facts they should do research or watch a documentary. And even then research and documentaries are never without certain biases.
Idk. I get people criticisms. I really do. And I really do think some things in the show could’ve been handled more delicately. But I still also think the show was great and interesting and moving and I think media literacy in general has gone down the drain because to me it was quite obvious that the show is not claiming to be fact when they’re literally showing so many different perspectives. Eg the amount of people saying the show said the brothers touched eachother in the shower and that’s proof Ryan’s trying to say they were in a relationship, when it’s pretty clear that’s meant to be a depiction of a rumor because that scene is shown when the journalist is gossiping with other people. A director of a show shouldn’t have to put a disclaimer before every scene stating whether the scene is dramatized or a lie or made up. Criticize the morality of it, okay. But people’s expectations for this tv show are simply unrealistic and diff from every other tv show and movie that’s out simply cause they feel bad for the brothers.
Everything included in the show, incest and sexuality, were relevant rumors at the time of the original case. Some of those rumors were stared by Dominick Dunne, the character played by Nathan Lane. It sounds like it went over your head.
@@AJ-kq8mmwhat are you talking about ? They litterary admitted to it. Did you watch the trial ? One of the brothers admitted taking his brother into the woods with a toothbrush when he was angry and abusing him
Why’re you getting all involved in the thumbnail 😭😭
😂😂😂 stop
bro thinks he’s on the team 😭😅
Guys that's an old pic of one of the original brothers the case is being portrayed of 😑
I was thinking the same thing😂
He's tryna be the third Menendez brother
Cant have sympathy for a person who did those things to 6 year old children..
and for another who actively enabled it.
Ive seen all the court trials. Saw the cousins testimonies, ive seen the letter one them wrote telling one the cousins that wasnt admitted into evidence.
Ive seen all the witnesses testimony addressing how mean kitty was to her children. And despite that how much both of them tried to be there for her and take her of her.
And yes, of course they loved their parents. Abused children tend to love their parents regardless. They have no selfesteem at all, no sense of selve. They still want approval and love. Thats what so f/cked about what they went trough. The amount of confusion these men felt throughout their life’s. “We love of our parents, but also.. did what we did” , on trial they kept defending their parents imagine. People who was proven treated them horribly.
Kitty’s therapist testified that she told the boys many times about how they ruined her life, how they where to blame for her life being horrible.
And jose?
Jesus… dont even get me going on that child mol$ster
exactly. that comment made me feel a little icky too. just goes to show how tragic erik and lyle’s story is bc at the end of the day, they were their parents and they loved them. but generational trauma and sayings they weren’t abusing them 24/7 doesn’t rlly humanize them at all. those monsters can’t be and SHOULDNT be humanized.
I saw the court videos too! it's so clear who has seen them and who hasn't. the people spewing cynicism and vitriol towards the brothers clearly have not taken the time to look at the details presented in court, and are just using their own reasoning and/ or what they've seen in the media, to come to conclusions.
@@ricegrain6880 those parents did NOT love those boys. the father stuck needles into Erik while he was r*ping him. he cut off the dog's head and put it in the fridge for the boys to find. he punched lyle in the stomach with the closed fist when Lyle was 5. the mother r*ped Lyle. that is the opposite of love in all ways.
Cooper Koch, the actor who played Erik, not only has been extreme praised for his performance, seemed to be the only one who truly looked at this from the perspective of a victim, has been the only one embraced by the brothers, but he has also been the only one to show regret and pain from how the brothers were portrayed.
I think that his performance was so contrasted by the intent of Ryan that he actually might have filmed certain scenes with a different idea of how they would be used. Like, the incest scenes seem so outrageous that I can believably assume he thought they would be used as a tool to demonize the ugly rumors against the brothers. Instead Ryan actually portrayed them as truth. That’s vile.
That is my theory because of how apologetic and remorseful he is, the embrace the brothers have given him and how he visited them and advocates for their release.
The most telling part is the fact that Erik immediately hugged him when he visited them and this was AFTER the show debuted. That tells a lot.
His words about their reaction were:
"It definitely affected me and it made me feel things. [...] I understand how difficult it would be to have the worst part of your life be televised for millions of people to see. It's so exposing. I understand how he feels and I stand by him."
In a situation in which you screwed up, be a Cooper; Not a Ryan. Ryan, in his comments about the reactions, seems to be wanting to represent the parents as well, and that’s not right.
Regarding Eric Menendez's complicated feelings toward his sexuality- if you're assualted multiple times/ regularly, some of those times you might have a biological response.
From a child or young teenager's basic understanding wouldn't a biological response be viewed as liking it to some degree? That could confuse just about anyone let alone someone who has had only limited experiences. They simply do not know better.
With regards to the use of the word "nice"- anything less than violent, less than uncomfortable, with even the bare minimum of softness could be categorised as "nice". This would of course be relative to his prior experiences with his father.
💯
A great many men--look to Rome, Greece, or even now where a lot of people have secrets--are bisexual. I can only assume sexual abuse makes such issues more complicated
Naw, he’s just gay.
Nope. Erik just like men
This! 100% ❤
I do really get where Murphy is coming from when he tries to include different possible theories and perspectives on the story. However, the way it was executed did not sit well with me at all... I am all for nuance, but as we generally view things through the linear story telling, and the "truth" is usually slowly unravelled during a show... The last episodes do carry the most weight. By showing the brothers discussing premeditated murder of their parents, by showing the parents being a flawed but decent couple and by hardly focusing on the abuse in the later episodes, it -at least to me- felt as if this was the supposed main message of the show: that they did not act out of fear for their lives, but that it was premeditated. And because of this, it felt as if the show DID take a stance on what it believed to be te truth, siding with the opposition and framing the brothers as using the "abuse excuse".
Right. The thing is that there weren't too many different perspectives about the parents when it came to friends, family, associates, teachers, coaches, neighbors, etc. They all thought the parents were weird/awful/domineering/abusive/pathological/liars etc. To add nuance to the story Ryan had to lie, I mean, *cough*, get really creative.
The show could have explored the nuance of mental stability when it comes to childhood trauma. It could have explored the nuance of spousal abuse. It could have done so many things with the truth. But he chose not to. I just don't get it.
@@wb6266 I totally agree, there is so much wasted potential... It's sad
Controversial opinion: Even if the murders were premeditated, a lifetime of abuse will mess up any ones mind. Ofcourse you end up spending alot of time thinking about how to rid yourself of your abuser. They needed rehabilitation not punitive measures. It doesnt have to be self defense for them to still be victims.
@@Dee_Dee216 controversial indeed but I do truly agree with your opinion, very well said
@mar-d8472 I know, I was also surprised when I finished the show that I felt that way. When I first heard the story I thought it was just two spoiled rich boys who killed their parents for the money but I watched the show and it made me really empathize with their perspective. I actually think showing it from all the different perspectives and adding in the shadow of doubt with premeditation and them changing their story so much, Lyle portrayed as violent made me empathize with them more because all those would be normal reaction to consistent merciless abuse. And if my father abused me my whole life and didnt buy me the car I wanted, I would be angry also...get atleast one thing right while raising me😄
People say the portrayals were inaccurate and hurt their case but I don't think they need to be "perfect victims" for us to empathize with them. Most victims aren't.
Okay the tapes with lyle talking on the phone aren't incriminating I have listened to them and he sound douchey but it corroborates what the boys said. He doesn't say anything about fake crying or anything. Because the police late searched the women's home and was like we listened to the tapes no one where on there does he say these thing Also the women that supposedly heard lyle say these thing came out and said Dominic DUnne had payed her to lie on lyle because he was pro prosecution
Omg i was wondering about that too, good to know
Even in the show, I felt the tapes were only evidence of Lyle’s need for attention and brattiness
Do you have a link to the tapes with lyle talking on the phone?
thank you!!!
I feel the menendez brothers, especially Lyle, should be able to sue for defamation/slander.
I simply loved the scenes of him freaking out and screaming for 10 cent coins😭 he was a millionaire and they couldn't get simple coins for him
😂
DIMES DIMES DIMES!!
ryan murphy should never be trusted for accuracy, he could have made this show but changed the names and had it “inspired” by the brothers rather than making it seem like an actual dramatic biopic. then people would NOT have the same issues with the weird incest and exaggerations and it would probably do a lot better tbh.
With this cast it could have been an amazing show. The acting was incredible. It was funny. It was sad. It was scary. It depressed me especially the ending. The system failed. The abuse, the torture they went through and the show BARLEY touched just how bad it was for these boys. The incest was not needed to be shown between the boys or hinting that they were lying, because viewers who dont understand the story or the way tramua works. They label them liars and its heartbreaking to be called a liar when youre telling the world you were abused by your parents. I wish they would be released. Its surrel to think they hsve been in prison this long.
Also agree the outfits are insanely good. I like a spoiled boy character in tv and movies. Im a sucker for it.
My mom was so disturbed by the cinnamon thing. She was like “ok, enough of this series for tonight” it took both my mom and dad by surprise haha.
My dad asked me, his gay son, if the cinnamon trick really works. I was SPEECHLESS. then he realized what he was asking me and made the whole time watching the episode sooooo awkward
Chloe Savigney was amazing. She is such an underrated actress. I also love her on AHS and wish they would give her more screen time. The song is called "Dirty Cash" by The Adventures of Stevie V. Amazing 90s dance song. That whole Stevie V album was so good!
She has the saddest eyes. She was great in Gummo
episode 5 was a directional work of art.
A lot people were upset that Jose was shown to be sexual abused by his mother. They assumed that Ryan Murphy made it all up for the drama. Not realizing that it was Jose's sister , Marta, accounts of his sexual abuse. They felt bad for him for a split second and it made them angry. Jose is most definitely not the poster child of a perfect victim. Our society is obsessed with the perfect victim. Life is shades of gray but people judge in black and white.
I didn’t take it as “are they monsters?” But rather it’s their parents who ended up being the monsters.
My husband was watching this and I was just doing other stuff and Nicholas Chavez made me stop in my tracks and become obsessed with this show. What an incredible performance
Both of the "brothers" gave stellar perfomances. Cooper Koch in episode 5 was gut wrenching.
yes Nicholas Chavez is fine ❤he cute like a young Zac Efron
I disagree with some of your conclusions but I actually enjoyed this review and seeing this show from a different perspective. I totally get what Ryan Murphy was trying to do with the show but don’t think it was executed well. I came away thinking the show was kind of a confusing mess. Other than that my main gripes were some of the weird inaccuracies/creative liberties they took. Lyle’s characterisation in particular was just so ridiculous to me (even though the actor was great). He was just so over the top that it wasn’t believable but I guess if you view it from the angle of an exaggerated version of how the media at the time portrayed them then it kind of makes sense. Lyle also never told Norma Novelli that he fooled the jury. He certainly comes across as obnoxious and somewhat manipulative on those tapes in real life but he never suggests that anything was fake.
Overall I mostly enjoyed the show for the performances but the execution just wasn’t there for me.
Yeah, for me, this show was my first introduction to the case. I definitely thought that Lyle was the manipulator/had ASPD, and Eric was "just" dragged into it. But after additional (albeit limited) research, I think the show did a rather bad job at portraying the brothers. Especially Lyle, but somewhat Eric as well.
@@SammyLammy1D The expert who evaluated Lyle also concluded that he didn't have ASPD. He was just extremely repressed due to the abuse and brainwashing he experienced
@@YourEverydaySheep Yes complex trauma can cause people to act like they have personality disorders.
He wasn't a millionaire- his parents were.
@YourEverydaySheep yeah I know. But the show made it seem differently, IMO.
I do like the point you made about episode 5, how that episode is the show kind of telling us that is the real story of what happened to the brothers. The one issue I have is Erik's face in the final shot of the episode. He stops crying and has that slight smirk as if almost to say "this is the story I am going with, was it convincing?" (at least that's what I get from it). That shot has to be purposeful. I personally think that was done to show how much confusion/mystery there was in the case. No one but the boys and their parents knew their relationship and the show understands that.
I think you have actually nailed it.
I interpret the smile as “yea…that’s it. That’s my story. You happy now?”
Because he was so hesitant to answer her questions, and reveal the truth, he smiles through the pain.
I have done this, as a victim. Smiled at the ridiculous situation I was in when I was telling the story, usually under pressure to answer someone else’s curiosity.
Watching them in court, idk Erik would smirk randomly sometimes. It might’ve just been a nervous tick, but that’s all I took from the final shot.
I agree about the final shot of Erik's face. it's clear that the director asked him to do that to make him look like a sociopath.
I'll be thinking about episode 5 for a really fucking long time. Really remarkable performance by the guy who plays Erik.
The thumbnail for this is fucking hilarious 😂 I've been looking forward to your review. I literally watched this series so I could watch your review lmao
I would have watched Netflix's Mendez Series: Monsters even if Marshall had not planned on reviewing it, but I binged it to watch the video immediately.
Loved it! Binged in one day. Glued to the screen. I’m still torn between what I believe…… it’s a crazy ride
You didn't know who Nathan Lane was yet you can recognize he's an amazing actor is a delight.
The bar for appreciation might run along the same lines as people’s ability to hold multiple conflicting truths at once.
Using multiple perspectives to tell the story more as the general public would have perceived it, acts as a criticism of how we consume the trauma of other people’s lives for our entertainment. If society wasn’t consuming true crime Ryan Murphy wouldn’t have an audience. We wouldn’t be discussing it on social media. He’s holding up a mirror and if it illicits a strong reaction in some that’s because we aren’t ready to face it.
The performance in episode 5 was so clear and compelling. Similar to the testimony of both boys. Any human soul who could watch them and not feel the truth and pain needs to work in their humanity.
While skepticism is necessary in life, too many use it as a defense mechanism. The way we saw the reporter over time return to his biases after being moved by the boy’s testimony was very realistic. His POV wasn’t the truth. It was his coping mechanism on display.
Oh man, when Erik was telling his lawyer his story, I had to remember to breathe. It was so sad and disturbing 😢
you starting this video out praising the series after praising dahmer honestly bothers me. the portrayal of the brothers in this is so far from accurate. please don't praise ryan murphy for this.
Absolutely agree with you, this show was very much about painting the picture that the prosecution, defense, media, were serculating at the time, unfortunately i dont feel that the show was very clear about it. Maybe if they had explored it through the eyes of each juror on the trial, each episode use a different juror it would have been clear that this is how people thought opposed to what the boys were like. I didn't realize what the show was doing till i read the book by Robert Rand. It took me almost 2 days to realize that the director was saying, we know the boys are guilty but did they deserve life in prison, and we know the parents were guilty of abuse but did they deserve to die? Great concept, maybe not the best execution
I got it right away however I was already well versed in the case and all the characters involved as well as the rumours that circulated at the time so that might be why, a person with little or no knowledge of the case who watches this show might not get the directors vision right away or even at all.
I think the show said it best "what people hate the most is nuance."
there is no nuance in this case. The parents were child rapists and their two sons weren't the only victims. there's no excuse for defending child rapists and painting them in a good light, as Murphy has tried to do in this garbage show.
Finally someone that agrees with me. I think the show was great and depicts the complex relationships that a family dynamic has. This case is so tragic, it also shows how we have grown as a society. I don't belive they would've gotten the same sentence today as they did in the 90's. Also refreshing to not watch a show about yet another serial killer that already has had their story told a million of times. This case is so interesting in so many different ways, the case itself, the public, the 90's and the messy trails.
Also noticed that Lyle never called his parents mom and dad he always said kitty and José in the court room calling their real name or my parents but with Eric he always said my brother😢 i feel like he killed his parents for Eric's freedom from his dad sexual abuse and i think he was guilty to blame him self for what he did to Eric when they were young the wood story😢 ,that's why he so emotional and over protective to his brother he stood up for his brother trew every thing he has for eric
Ok never watched a video from you before but jeepers you really get it, you are smart af. Everyone is so busy pearl-clutching after watching half the show they don’t see how amazing this achievement is
They play Milli Vanilli because Milli Vanilli were two guys that faked it for money and greed, and some of the other guys, and they completely say that they were conceited
You may want to look up the documentary on the duo. You might have another perspective on them
MV was everywhere when they committed the crime in 1989 too.
It was their parents memorial song too@@natalier7204
my problem with the show is why they felt the need to make things up when the real story is right there? in the court videos, told by actual witnesses?
anybody who thinks that the people who hated the show are over reacting obviously never watched the court videos or know a lot about the case. it was grossly exaggerated and about 70% of it was dramatized or completely made up bs. Lyle was basically a fictional character it was laughable
You know what, I really appreciate the creativity that they did in the show, the way that it shows different perspectives for atleast every single episode is really bold and smart. I think the series itself is great. But is this the type of show that the Menendez Brothers really need? Considering the situation that they're in right now? I think that's the reason why I cannot fully love the show, because instead of showing the audience the whole truth, the series kind of takes back the audience to the view of the general public during the times of the trial, which was very conflicting at the time. So is that really what the Menendez Brothers really need?
This happened over 20 years ago, and they’ve had over multiple documentaries published. It’s not about what they need, it’s something Murphy brought attention to just like Dahmer. He has the right to do so and we have the right to critique his work.
Marshall Stannus be THE MAN! Thank you for such a thoughtful, insightful, highly intelligent, and well-researched review. How, oh how, I wish I had Netflix. Thirty years ago, I was disgusted by the court of popular opinion around the Menendez brothers. However, I knew that if one hasn't experienced that kind of abuse firsthand, it would be rather difficult to wrap one's head around such drastic behavior. I was abused every which way growing up. My heart goes out to the Menendez brothers. I believe they acted out of desperation, not knowing how to get proper outside help. (Perhaps, there was no outside help to be had.) Extremely sad situation. Fortunately, my own generational abuse story ends with me. Bless you, Marshall. So very impressive you are.
Thank you so much for mentioning the soundtrack! I thought the music choices were amazing and the score was so well written! I think these both really helped to shape this season and put us in that time period.
I'm glad you brought up episode 5 and how impressive the acting was there. When I was watching it, I realized that that entire segment where Eric is talking to his lawyer was 1 take, and that absolutely blew me away! Being able to keep up that type of an acting performance continually for that long is incredibly impressive!!
Hi guys so, my section on “DIMES” at around 30-35 mins in got butchered by copyright so some of what I say has been removed
Basically I loved the section- loved Eric’s body language and Lyle stepping into protect, it was incredibly captivating, well edited, satisfying and compelling, probably my fave part of the show, ashame I couldn’t include my section
pretty crazy for murphy to write lyle as a egotistical angry maniac based off oziels testimony saying he was angry when he called to say his brother confessed vs all of his family member saying he was charming and one of the most kindest people ever since he was a kid
It feels like whenever lyle expressed anger when rightly so. They ran with it as if that is his whole character trait. When everybody who knew him said he was a calm and quiet person.
@@ILikeTheIvy exactly, ryan murphy played with his anger just like the court did to make him seem like a sociopath
The disproportionality of the backlash, and how uninformed it seems, is apparently becoming the norm for media. 'Transgressive', or simply honest, is out.
I do believe that the biggest problem with the series is that it's about real people, but after seeing the reaction to Dahmer I don't know if the sort who levy that criticism are serious individuals who actually WATCHED either of the shows in their entirety.
I really tried to watch the Netflix version with open mind but having watched the actual trial and all the other documentaries related to this I think the “twisting of truth for tv” is kinda too much. Its probably good for people who doesn’t know or heard of the Menendez Brothers before this series.
I’m glad that I watched your review. It helped provide some perspective as to why Ryan Murphy may have shown some things. I felt like he made some parts perverted in a way that it didn’t belong.
I know that a lot of people were upset with the portrayals. One great thing about this series is that it’s renewed interest in the case. During the trial itself, I was too young to understand everything and simply believed they were evil, money hungry people. Now, having lived through so much and knowing we have so many monsters raising children, I absolutely believe them and feel as though they should be released. I don’t necessarily feel as though the crime they committed should’ve gone unpunished, but hearing the actual testimony and realizing two things can be true, they’ve experienced enough. It’s highly possible one or both of them could be cold, psychotic and committed premeditated acts due to sexual abuse. These two things can exist.
Finally, as someone who has survived horrible abuse a child, you can absolutely grow into an adult who has no sympathy, empathy or emotional connection to the family member(s) who did that to you. I can absolutely understand how they could go on shopping sprees almost immediately after what happened-that doesn’t make it right.
I just finished and I got to say I love this show. I love how it bounces sides. It does an amazing job at show the monstrous sides of both the brothers and the parents in my opinion
Whoooo glad you enjoyed!
I agree wholeheartedly with your review. The show was not meant to show "the truth" because the truth ultimately can never be known by us, the show highlights the different perceptions and perspectives of the people involved including the mass media and public opinions circulating. The acting was incredible, the show was nuanced and not black and white so for people who do not want to think critically and just see people as all good or bad will obviously not like a show that plays with reality shifting. Also, this show really highlighted what can happen in families who experience intergenerational abuse and I think it advocates for survivors of abuse. I disagree with the rotten tomatoes reviews, I think people are afraid to say they liked the series because of the complicated themes present. This was one of the best series that I have watched in a long time, it was very compelling and I think it was a fair portrayal of this event and these people.
Great commentary man good to see a thoughtful breakdown of the impressive filmmaking through the series. Art like this takes time and dedication and it’s a shame the reception is taking the art that challenges us for granted.
At first I thought the final scene was meant to be the parents in heaven! The angelic lighting…that thing about the wreck below being circled by the sharks maybe referring to the boys’ situation down on earth. Plus their dark sides are gone and they’re acting like purified versions of themselves.
Brilliant work Marshall totally appreciate your take on Monsters👏👏👏
i love the way you broke this show down, and love your perspective on things!
I am in the middle of it and I have watched the trial and interviews and the personality of Lyle does not fit the one shown in the show. I also find it inappropiate to sexualize the brothers because sex in the whole story is a very serious and harmful matter. Unnecessary.
Your analysis is spot on. Haven't seen nearly enough level-headed, media-literate reactions to this show, so thanks for sharing. You highlight some really great stuff this show is doing that has unfortunately been overshadowed by a lot of mostly overblown, knee-jerk outrage. It's a shame people have such a low tolerance for subtlety, and moreover, that they seem to feel only the purest of saints deserve sympathy, when no such saints exist, and certainly not in this story. For what it's worth, as someone with zero knowledge of this case before watching Monsters, I came to feel a ton of sympathy and sadness for Erik and Lyle both--flaws and all--by the end of the series, even before looking into more factual sources. While it's not by any means a perfect show, it is a compelling and complex one that ultimately gives credence to the brothers and respect to survivors.
I honestly agree with everything you have said! People don’t use critical thinking with most things and the way media is normally portrayed dulls people’s understanding of levels of abuse/emotion and how this affects every person in any situation.
You look like you should be in the show. 😂 Love your commentary.
Lyle never said he fooled the jury, he just gave the overall impression that the jury siding with the defense was ultimately more important to him than the truth (at the time)
The song is called Dirty Cash (Money Talks) by Adventures of Stevie V. 😉
I think people who criticize the show for misrepresentation do not get the point. Yes the brothers in this show were misrepresented. Yes there were things that were inaccurate. The question is why? There’s a couple of possibilities. Maybe the director was just ignorant but this is highly unlikely as the show producers did extensive research, even pulling court documents, into creating the show. Maybe the producers of the show wanted to over dramatize the show for profit. This is also unlikely considering that an accurate dramatization and an inaccurate dramatization would have likely resulted in about the same amount of profit considering the popularity of the case. You could even argue an accurate portrayal would have spared the show some criticism which would have resulted in more profits. Maybe Ryan Murphy is just vile and enjoys misrepresentation. That’s also highly unlikely considering the compassionate and empathetic light he showed towards the victim in Dahmer and to even Dahmer himself (although he did not ask permission from the victims which would have been the right thing to do). In Dahmer, he showed the racial lens through which the crimes occurred, a take that is extremely understanding and grounded in the politics of the time. So then why would he portray the brothers in such an erratic way, going back and forth from compassionate to nonsensical. The last possibility is the most likely: He is trying to portray the brothers the way the public and the media thought of them at the time. Ryan Murphy, like many of us, knows that the real truth of the murders and what happened will remain secret so there is no point in trying to portray the crimes in an accurate light as doing this would require him to side with one opinion or another. Would he choose the reporters POV, the brothers POV, the prosecutions POV, the media’s POV. Well, he chose to portray all of them in the most disorientating way possible. Much like Dahmer criticizes the inbuilt racism and homophobia in the criminal justice system, The Menéndez Brothers criticizes the media sensationalism that often follows such a crime.
I do believe that they wanted their parents' money, But the abuse is what made them capable of doing what they did. I don't think they're psychopaths, Or sociopaths. They're traumatized. They deserved prison, But with a chance of parole.
I don't think they deserved prison because most people actually don't, I work medical in a men's prison. Prison literally does nothing btw and they come out far more traumatized and more likely to end up back in. The only people I genuinely think should be permanently in prison are people who are genuinely dangerous people and sex offenders as they cannot be in the general population without hurting someone. But what they needed was probably extreme mandatory therapy, restrictions, and to be in a half way house for awhile and continued monitoring throughout their lives to make sure they are stable and safe
Top notch review, was seeking this kind of commentary with a critical, deep thinking lens outside of rotten tomatoes. Thank you!
Good acting, good casting, excellent!
the way i watched this show just so i could watch your review with the whole context in mind
I think people are kind of missing the point of this show in a way-
It’s to truly show ALL sides of the different stories. Because at the end of the day- we don’t know what is true and what isn’t.
And I think that comment at the shrinks office was supposed to portray that- when he said “an aggravated circumstance” and Erik says “yeah they were really aggravating.” I don’t think that was supposed to be comedic relief, I think that was supposed to truly buckle you in for a roller coaster of so what is it?
I know I speak for almost everyone when I say no one what’s to deny a victims story, no one wants to questions a victims account of something- BUT, this entire show is to truly capture the fact that it all could just be that. A story- but how it could also be a mix of a lot of different truths.
I love how in the final 2 episodes they really show every single possible scenario, of how the boys are brats and abusive to their parents, and that there may also be some abuse from their parents as well, or how the boys are just abusive, and there was no abuse, and this was a fabrication. Or a mix of both.
Lyle having those recorded conversations of him basically saying it’s false, or them never bringing it up to the therapist, even when Erik was suicidal at a point riddled with guilt, and the therapist was trying to coax him into telling him something to make it self defense and he was blank-
Lyle hyping Erik up, multiple times, telling him he’s an actor.
The proof that Lyle was writing and calling friends and family trying to get them to lie for them at trial.
I really think the show does an amazing job of covering every possible aspect and situation.
The parents eating ice cream watching tv- or that they could have been asleep together on the couch.
Every bit of it is to show not the monster in everyone but the innocence in everyone.
To show that this could have gone so many ways and at the end of the day we will NEVER know the truth.
I’m at 20 minutes and I’m loving your well articulated review of this movie, so far! You’re making me come to a new appreciation of this series
Thank you so much!!
We’d be remiss to glaze over the not so subtle connection between the Menendezes and Millie Vanilli.
I haven't finished it yet (on ep 5 rn) but I'm liking it so far. The only thing that I do agree with twt and clutching-pearls type of people is that since this is based on real people, its definitely side eyeing how they portrayed part of the brothers relationship. If this wasn't a real case, I'd be totally fine with it because ykw, fiction is fiction and I'm tired of people making it as if you're condoning stuff irl just bc you consummed it. However, talking only about the show itself, you're right that it did a great job with the storytelling, acting, the reveals and technical aspect. I just wish such cases didn't exist in real life, it's heartbreaking to think about that.
from even before the show started, i was like, is ryan murphy gonna be weird about the brothers, will this be an incest thing. by the end of the show, it's clear that's not something they're interested in beyond the rumor of. so the shower scene very much read like just that, a rumor that people were speculating about, it was put in with other speculations, it was mean to not be taken seriously. but the scene that bothered me was the one in episode, where coked up lyle kisses eric and they get weirdly sensual on the dance floor with people watching them weird. because, yeah maybe that's also part of "how the public viewed them" with the lavish lifestyle and everything, but that scene felt like it was not there for a narrative purpose. it was there because it's episode 2 of a netflix show, and they wanted a tantalizing clip that would make people talk about them, have people get mad and not click off the show, and be like "look, sexy guys dancing together, they might kiss!" basically everything about that scene, in the context of the show, felt like it was there for exploitative reasons, and it was really unfortunate, considering the show is good, why are you tainting it with this scene
Genuinely impressed on how much info n knowledge you got so quickly after the show came out
You are a remarkable reviewer, thank you so much!
My friend and I literally were talking about how the show would be much better if he based it on these events but made it very clear it was a stand alone show for entertainment. Like change the names and some other things out of respect and it would be much more watchable, I only have a problem with it being real ppl.
The show was well made yes. It is a horrible awful thing that they did yes. The problem is that they sexualized the relationship between Erik and Lyle and if someone goes into the show not knowing anything they’re going to believe everything that they watch and that’s just exploitive and not okay.
Not Nathan Lane being in this. So sorry for Nathan Lane
Another amazing review! I love how you pointed out how the show produces a confused reaction from the audience as both sides of the case are depicted, which also mirrors the experience of Eric and other abuse victims as their abusers aren't abusing 24/7. I feel like in that way the show subtly provides another defense for the brothers as it shows their inner conflict despite the abuse.
The only this i disagree with is I felt like the show was dragging after halfway. And especially during the Dom episode because I felt like his dinner party scenes were repeated a lot. Although, I will admit part of that was because I found the content of the show (as someone not familar with the case) very upsetting and I wanted it to end.
Nice review, especially not being familiar with the case.
I feel the pacing and placement of the episodes lead to the conclusion they are guilty. I feel like hearing their actual testimony rather than the acted out parts would have been more impactful. like either Lyle and Eric Menendez are some of the greatest actors to walk this earth or they are genuinely in pain while the relay the pain they claim they went through. and I just don't think watching a fabrication of that (which the audience knows is fake cause its tv actors) can ever really imitate that
also personally for me the brutality of what happened is irrelevant, my only quip is if they were abused (for the record I believe them). and given how horrendous the abuse was I honestly hope they waited like 15-20 mins before coming back in to finish the job so she had to wait in fear and pain
Good job as usual. I couldn't wait for your review and you didn't disappoint. Impressive research too 👏🏾 🙏🏾👏🏾
Kitty actress is in Feud as One of the group of women whom Trueman Capote wrote about. She is a top actress along with Javier.
It is so hard to figure out the truth when it comes to this case. It really was hard for me to understand why they wouldn’t have said anything about the SA sooner if it is true. After thinking about it more & realizing how much different times were back then when it came to SA & especially SA with boys & it being family ppl jus didn’t understand how big of a prob it was back then & figured any guy would fight back ect ect but no1 knows what they will do until in the situation themselves. I do now believe they were SA by there dad & was just to embarrassed or didn’t think people would believe them. I mean they still try & victim blame today so it must have been a lot worse in the past. Thanks & gods bless every1.
They did say!! The hospital found clear evidence of SA because he was in pain and said to the school. The hospital took X-rays and examined one of them and it was clear evidence!! Their dad was part of Hollywood, a well protected man!! Look at diddy, epstine, savile, Tom hanx, Kevin spacey, the SA on the casting couch, operah, the BRF, all the sick stuff at the mansion…… rich people who SA small people are wrapped up in so much protection…… the hospital found it clear as day! Was it allowed into evidence? Of course not! The police the justice system are all In on the game too!
That’s funny, I always thought Ryan Murphy used the Don’t Dream it’s Over song because it is by a band called Crowded House and that was sort of a wink to the viewer that the house was too crowded for the whole family to continue existing with each other…or something along those lines.
I’m on episode five and I doubt I can finish it because of the inappropriate relationships🤢 like I’m quite grossed out
They also tried to make Erik “gay” with the prison sequence which was really off putting to me. He and his brother are both straight men, who are married with wives and a daughter. Highly disrespectful to male victims.
I just think they ruined the character with Lyle I can’t tell you how many times I was pissed off at the character for doing stupid shit over and over again. “Fulling the jury” that was just stupid.
@@daltonhartwell like i read the book with his recordings and he NEVER SAID THAT WTF
I feel like a lot of you haven’t actually seen the show 🤣 the show explores multiple angles of what could have been. Everyone has something to say but most too too brain attention span haven’t watched the ENTIRE season.
You describing Nathan lane as “From Bo Is Afraid” just SENT ME lol! Great review!
Really great review! You hit a lot of good points and made me think a little more open minded. I really enjoyed the performances from Cooper Koch and Nicholas Chavez. Even those who have a distaste for Murphy’s depiction can admit this cast was solid. Keep up the great work!
I haven't seen the show although I'm planning to do so to make my own opinion about it. However, I have heard the different opinions about the show itself and also I've seen the actual tapes of the trial, the accusations and the argument of the defense. If the show made what you are saying, I totally get it. But I also think that Ryan Murphy could have been more respectful on his statments regarding the Menedez family and Erik's critism to the show. Like, at the end of the day are their names and their story. Lastly, I think some of the posters are inapropiate and make the product seem like a completely different thing at first sight.
Not a fan of Ryan Murphy's brand of television and never have been. Feels so exploitive and wrong somehow, super icky. Not denying that the Menendez brothers were almost certainly abused but Ryan Murphy peddles in fear and propaganda so I have no credence re his narrative.
I understand why people feel the way the do towards what Ryan chose to do with the borthers' relationship, however i don't get why they're so up in arms about it...
This is a SERIES, not a Documentary, it was meant to entertain, not portray the truth necessarily.
Imagine just how boring The Glory would have been had the rest of the story not been added, and then you find out that in real life the abusers walked away scot free.... who would want to watch that???
If it weren't for serializations, i would NOT have had any interest in looking up anything about both stories, which archived exactly what it should have, Entertain and Interest people.
I don't even believe people would have talking about this if it weren't for it and the writer/director's choices, and Netflix knew what they were doing given thay they chose to make a series AND a documentary.
Lyle’s character was actually so charming and funny to me lmao but yeah about what people are complaining about-the show was just visualizing different theories it wasn’t saying that the brothers for sure kissed or had a love affair so I think people are being dramatic like even at the end the show said “we probably won’t ever know what happened between that family”. And I get that it can get confusing to the audience but a documentary from the brothers side is coming out soon so there’s that to clear it up. Also I loved their style ALOT. As well ass every-time people get mad at the portrayal I’m like it’s the same thing with gypsy like I’m on their side regardless but they still…killed their parents like stop acting like they’re babies.
Also I feel like if they were lying why would they also say Lyle touched him with how close they are like I believe them.
To be fair it’s understandable that people would be mad about presenting a theory that the brothers were incestous with each other because it’s beyond ludicrous and is backed up by no evidence whatsoever.
I get what Ryan was trying to do with the show but the execution isn’t great.
@@YourEverydaySheepI saw it as just visualizing a theory that people had at the time. Really seeing the different “sides” per day
@princesswells9469 most people watching will not see it just a "visualising" theory...
@@0912sooli If most people watching are not paying attention to the story being told, how is that the fault of the creators?
As someone who was starting uni when these guys were arrested, the portrayal on the boys is not exaggerated as a device or technique. The glam and conspicuous consumption was the tail end of the 1980s and they were considered odious characters through their demeanour and what they said.
I loved the show but then I feel bad because Eric’s whole life was completely taken from him. That 1 take episode where he talks about his abuse was stellar.
Great review. I do agree with the idea of all the different perspectives recreated showing just how hard people didn’t know what to think of the whole situation at the time. That last scene was really interesting the earlier comment about fishing for sharks late in the day and how that was suspicious to the boys but then Jose saying he doesn’t know the first thing about fishing sharks..
Forgot how funny the snickers bit was 😂😂
Mainly here for Nathan frickin Lane. Love of my life.
Take a shot every time he says hero-ing
Take a shot every time he says “these boys”
I agree wholeheartedly with this video's thesis, BUT... it's really no surprise the show was so misunderstood. It was so subtle in its portrayal of the brother's characters, I think in a world as media-literacy-uncultured as ours, it was inevitable people would dislike it. I watched it with my mom (she's not stupid, it's just that schools don't really teach us peoper media literacy) and her take-away was that the parents were utterly innocent.
Media literacy? Really 😂😂 y’all love new buzz word
*Vision
I’ve been patiently waiting for this video since I watched The Hurt Man episode and was like damn, this is actually really good? In that aspect at least
Also regardless how u feel about the way the show told the story ect ect it was still very well done in my opinion. If it was just fiction show about this I feel that every1 would love it.
I get that this is an interpretation of the real life story, and doesn't have to be 100% accurate, but moments like Lyle's shouting in like every scene he was in first two episodes (while that's not how he acted irl, and it just made him look like an unstable person with anger issues) and constant sexualization of the main characters while them being victims of SA seems like pretty poor choices. Also moments with brothers having sexual tension and kissing at some point...what even is this? As I understood scenes like this portrayed different visions of the situation (brothers', media's), etc., but some scenes felt really unnecessary and confusing of what the director wants to say.
what was that clip at 27:05 ???? its really fast and you'll miss it if you don't slow it down. it looked like real footage of the crime scene.
i think it is