This is Jen Jewel Brown, a music journalist from Australia that specifically covered counter culture music. At the time this was recorded she worked for the counter-culture music magazine, Daily Planet. She started working there when she was 19.
I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown too and originally posted this thread saying so, but she has come on either here or on my FB page saying it is not her! Why did you think it was her?
@@paulinebutcherbird The year this was filmed, her appearance, and the fact her question is centered around counter-culture music. Another person suggested Lillian Roxon, however she had shorter hair, and I believe she had already passed away before this interview was filmed. Lillian Roxon was 40 in 73, and passed away August 11th. This woman looks fairly young, which was another reason I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown.
@@My-Name-Isnt-Important Certainly it was on this trip to Australia that Frank met Jen Brown which is why I made the wrong conclusion. I agree with you about Lillian Roxon. Baffling as to why no one who knew this woman personally has not come forward. Are they all dead? 🫤
Whoever she is/was, she seems intelligent enough to at least have a conversation w/ Frank, which is a lot more than you can say about the idiots on that Senate committee associated w/ the Parents Music Research Council who Frank just BLISTERED.
@@mcjazzer As was my own experience when I first met Frank and said that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. He debated with me on the issue of the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour. That was my 'in'.
I think so, too. It reminds me of when I first met Frank Zappa and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make it was immoral. He debated with me in a similar way as here but about the morality of lyrics.
Most extremely intelligent people are highly aware that the vast majority of what we perceive as the truth is subjective. It's never about changing the opinion of the one you debate, it's about making strong points, reflecting on other's arguments, and perhaps learning from one another.
some comments here about the young woman , but Frank wasn't one to suffer fools gladly, he gave a very thoughtful answer to her question , he obviously thought it was a valid question and not confrontational like some posters on here think.
The entire show is on youtube and I find the debate herein sober and serious - and Zappa seems to appreciate the high level of conversation and gives straight answers to straight questions. This is Zappa when NOT being asked silly questions :-)
She had good questions. Frank had good answers. Interesting discussion, which answers the general question "Why is there so much crap on the radio/TV/Internet?"
Somebody else in this comments section described how Frank “addressed a political question with an economic answer.” I think that’s exactly the kind of rhetorical reframing the journalist was trying to call out-the question of whether music has a place in politics outside of its branding as *revolutionary, for-the-people “political” music.* People who stand by Frank’s response without seeing the ideological position he’s coming from-a sort of populist libertarianism-aren’t picking up that nuance in her question. He answered like she expected, but did not want, him to. That’s where the tension is coming from. She asks whether it’s appropriate to think about politics in terms of "vote with your dollar" pseudo-economics, given that the concept of “revolutionary rock-n-roll” was already a massive market at the time. We might ask, “are the people determining the economy here, or is the economy determining the people?” And he simply tells her that what the people want is revolution, without himself asking whether the kind of revolution they’re demanding is one they’ve already bought. One they’ve seen before in their Hollywood blockbusters. One they’ve heard before in their record stores. Thanks for posting this video. It’s a very telling exchange. It reminds me of the movie “Network”, in a way-a story about the media’s commodification of the phrase “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”
I'm fascinated by the varied comments on this thread that analyse the exchange between Frank and this unknown woman in so many different ways. And here you come with another different way of seeing it, which I find compelling.
Frank was not only ahead of his time musically, he was an insightful intellectual who understood the real politics behind the business - and the world in general.
@@ButternoteBackingTracks I agree. However, "His music was crap though" comes across as a declaration of fact rather opinion. "I don't like his music, though" is an opinion.
I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't unusual to find such intelligent conversations on TV shows, no need for flashing lights, funny voices, or scripts written in baby talk by marketing teams. Whether or not one agrees with any of the speakers, it's a show by grownups made for grownups. Yeah, there was lots of garbage TV in those days as well, but where today in the open cultural sewer that TV has become would you even find something like this? I'm glad at least some memories of this time are being preserved online.
@@SillyGoose2024Well he did have the temarity to call out coming fascist theocracy in the USA in the 80s. Here we are 40 yrs later going down that road.
There was a time when a challenging and articulate question was welcomed, as well as the back and forth of clarifying the question. Don't be put off by style. This is dialogue. Something we no longer do much of.
To me, this does not seem like a case of Zappa being "persistently questioned" and "challenged." To me, this sounds like a reasonable discussion about the state of the music industry and its political relevance.
The woman's opening question -- whether Zappa can ascribe and political revolutionary implications to rock -- is a serious question that provokes a serious discussion. Zappa gives an interesting answer, which basically implies that corporate radio is focused on profits and thus always caters to the interests of their sponsors. But he doesn't really answer the woman's question directly. He simply implies that corporate radio stifles whatever "political revolutionary" potential rock might have. I think Zappa is one of the smartest and politically most interesting artists in the history of rock, but his answer here is not one of his best moments, especially when one recalls that in 1973 lots of folks where getting their rock radio music from college radio stations, which could be quite radical and which were not beholden to corporate interests. My sense is that the women is scratching her head at the end because Zappa has sidestepped her question. The short answer to her question is: no, you can't really ascribe political revolutionary implications to rock, but it can and it has had political-cultural significance and relevance. Zappa's answer points in that direction.
I think it depends on what is meant by "implications." If you mean, "is rock and roll the cause of political revolutions?," then no, not really. But if you mean to ask whether rock reflects revolutionary politics, or if it contributes to them, then yes, absolutely.
I think Frank went right to the heart of the question. Money/sponsors dictated the music you heard. Life happened and music was written about it. Not the other way around. Political revolution, sex and drugs are a few of many things that inspired the music. Frank supported the young lady's statement.
@@paulinebutcherbird Frank Zappa and Anonymous Student have civil conversation despite differing views! Why can't we talk like this anymore? How's that for a better title?
@@enochlamont877 Actually that is quite good, but it is your copyright to use yourself. I can't change this title after one month but thank you for your response.
Most of the comments are out of context. This clip was taken from an hour-long Australian television programme, the central theme of which is to reflect on the relationship between cultural production and social change. The panel members are not arrogant, they are simply people interested in reflecting on the culture of their time, that's all. Full show: ruclips.net/video/wTLOsoMMDuE/видео.htmlsi=N6d8I6ZIkBwKnFJr
@@paulinebutcherbird Hi Pauline. A lot of people have commented based on what you can see in this clip, which is just a fragment of a program that has a thematic focus. I was just trying to put things into context. I was 10 years old in 1973, and I am South American. I have no idea who that young woman could be. Cheers.
He was sharp, and he wasn't manipulated or intimidated by people who underestimated him bbecause of his unfair public image. Listening to him here, man, did he ever put these people in their places. He wasn't a perfect human being, not a saint. But he was one of the good ones. I wish he were still here today.
This is an amazing video and I’m so wonderfully glad I saw it! I loved your book Pauline and I’m so glad to have found your presence on here to prove just as fruitful ❤
Zappa was well aware of the music business environment in general and knew how it functioned. He was on top of everything and didn't take crap from anyone and his answers were always well thought out !
I can't imagine a world where many different types of music are available on radio stations, for my entire life it's been the same 50 songs repeated ad nauseum.
Are you saying the radio stations today have less variety? Why would you listen to radio today when there is so much stuff you can listen to elsewhere?
Yep. Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish in every goddamn gas station, grocery store, auto body shop, mall, restaurant... it never ends. I honestly wish I could go places where there isn't any music.playing for once. Like just enjoy the silence and then get an earworm of music I actually like at my own discretion.
Zappa always was a bit disregarded by the mainstream industry for the the manner he approached music. He worked out a mix in between contemporary avant-garde and rock. And he was so much aware of the mechanics of everything around him...
Indeed, and the other factor that is so often overlooked is what a brilliant businessman he was. Who else would advertise in comics? And he had no embarrassment in how he gained publicity - for example, in England on their first trip when no one had heard of them, he put on a short dress to reveal hairy legs, together with false boobs and his hair tied in bunches either side of his head to depict a Mother. The photo was all over the front pages of the music papers.
@@paulinebutcherbird Oh... Are you actually the author of the book "Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa"??? (If you are) I just bought it on my kindle and I'm thrilled with, not only with the details on Zappa's personality, but also with the quality and delicious flow of the writing. Since my 14's that I became a fan of that twisted Zappa sound, later when enrolling to study at my home town's conservatorium of music it impacted me that Zappa was actually fascinated by Edgard Varèse as he was also a very rare orchestra conductor that wouldn't play the piano but the guitar instead... and that was another unexpected door to understand his music. But I totally agree with you on Frank's other dimension that also contributes to his musical universe, his natural curiosity and clear mind of the social mechanics that would reject or accept his work. It must have been quite a ride to know him at his own backstage :) Your book is absolute fun to read, and a very smart and amazing human quality approach to the reading of the personality of one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century... :)
Old Zappa fan here, but just because he isn't impressed with the Osmonds or the Jacksons, doesn't mean the people that dig them are unsophisticated. The radio station is in business to make money, so they play what's popular.
exactly.. it's not rocket science... and it also doesn't follow that people who are into more obscure stuff aren't able to find something of their choosing outside the mainstream radio.. It was said of Zappa that he did some "commercially interesting" music.. only to pay for his classical output that wouldn't otherwise see the light of day; one way or the other he was attuned to music that he thought would sell.. I appreciate some of his music for sure (!) but personality wise never understood his unwillingness to see that music to most, is nothing more than an auditive wallpaper that ends up being a soundtrack of life... and not something that people in general want to use to size people's profundity on whatever field with.. because by doing that, it's not so surprising to see that Zappa invariably adopted this holier than thou attitude; making a clear distinction between the plebs and those (like him!) who are supposedly "in the know"... in spite of him being eloquent when talking about politically charged topics, and in some regards well informed.. the subtle - sometimes not so subtle - disdain showed him to have a bit of a blind spot.
It sounded like he had disdain for the Beatles which doesn't make sense to me. Once the Beatles got going, it was pretty clear that they were not pandering to any radio market.
@@Thijs-Kuiken I take his comment that he wrote music the way he liked it and hopefully some other people would like it too. Of course, as you say, in the back of his mind was the constant need to make money and for that reason he turned out songs with contentious titles that brought him attention, together with his wickedly clever publicity stunts.
@@SwingoMatic2024 He's just equating bubble gum for kids, which the Beatles were in their early years. I don't know why FZ wouldn't agree with her on the "marketing to children" note - of course American radio was marketing to kids, which I was one in the 1970s. Jackson 5, Queen, Bee Gees, Cheap Trick, Chic, Elton John, all of it was aimed quite well and right at us. They tried to hit us with the Ramones but radio stations wouldn't play it, sad to say. EDIT: and the Village People!!!
Why "challenged"? The question didn't pose any challenge, and I'm not referring to the fact that Zappa was way ahead of most of his peers, nor am I diminishing the question or the person asking it. It was a very straightforward question that anyone with a fair knowledge of the US music business would answer without breaking a sweat. So... why "challenged"?
Daddydoom, you are not the first person to question me about the use of the word 'challenge' so I'm going to change it to 'question' and let's see if interest falls off!
@@LordVader1094 Which is funny because a lot of presumably older commenters bemoan the "old times" when such intelligent discussion could have taken a place without artificial hype.
@@paulinebutcherbird anything related with Zappa has always its fair share of interest from the get go. Using tricks to get more people to come is just dishonest.
Looks like she asks a good question (about a revolution without musical accompaniment) that he doesn't clearly answer except that music can correspond to the mood of a particular audience (and perhaps inspire them?) She's articulate and focused, but seems to be careful in her approach. Nothing bad meant about Zappa, just complementing the woman. Maybe they need a clear definition of "revolution" that they can both address.
Interesting question/comment from the (I think she is) British woman about revolutions having musical accompaniment in light of the fact that this interview is likely before the rise of British punk as the collective voice of British youth's discontent with their future prospects. The Sex Pistols' "No future for you" was as much an economic statement as it was a political one. Thanks for sharing
Actually, she's an Australian, perhaps a cultured one, because you are not alone in thinking she is English. This exchange took place in 1973 and I believe the Sex Pistols formed in 1975 so your comment is correct.
If you would like to know more such as Frank's daily life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more, then try 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa Laurel Canyon 1968-1971'.
Indeed, but it was this very fact about Frank that hooked me on to him when I met him in London in 1967 and took down the lyrics of Absolutely Free. I told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was an immoral song and he debated with in a similar way as in this video. Long story short, I ended up living and working in his log cabin in Hollywood and write about the experience in my memoir which details Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon 1968-1971.'
Seems like Frank always wanted to make a biting, dead honest comment with his music and was very critical but that was good! I think he was in his way a big hearted person. He strived to be the best he could be and for what he believed in with a tremendous work ethic, the highest artistic standards and he gave lots of opportunites for other musicians to shine. A collaborative artist. Poor Frank - he died too young. Chain smoking probably didnt help. I loved st alfonso’s pancake - father oblivion. But a few of the pure guitar solo ones were so damn magical - like black napkins- and watermelons - that one was so good it still makes me cry. so much feeling! But I also loved jackson five so go figure! This interview was really cool. The lady clearly dug him.
I went backstage after a Zappa concert in Tallahassee in late 1970. It was at the FSU gym and I just walked in to the dressing room as a deep fan of his music. He was so normal it was almost strange, he sat on a sofa with a Nagra portable tape recorder and a very expensive-looking microphone, taping the goings on probably for future use. I asked him specific questions about specific album tracks and he answered them. If you talked music with Frank he took you seriously. It was politics and other subjects where he tended to go off. His sense of humor was astounding.
What a great story. You were lucky it was 1970, a year before he was knocked off stage in England. After that, it was difficult to get near him as his bodyguard stood in the way.
Possibly his best advice to other musicians was to ensure they get music publishing rights on their compositions. It was one of his main sources of income. One of his
My favourite musician. Maverick, iconoclastic, virtuoso, always provocative with a brilliant musical mind- there is none like him in the music scene today.
Conlan Nancarrow before FZ then after, the people you think are not seen, are. But not in the industry as much. The new ones today are mostly on SM making scenes, it's out of mainstream industry vocabulary. FZ had other genus players are now are teaching kids. Check em out - Tommy Mars as a collage gig guest blew my mind - the kids were on fire! Belew is making waves with bringing more audience from other scenes into maverick music... Stuff is bubbling, dude.
What Shame Frank Passed away so young! When he Spoke at the 1985 Senate Hearings on Music records being Labeled! His ⭐As a Brilliant Genius! Shined the Brightest that Day! Along with other Associates Dean Schneider and John Denver
In my estimation the single most intelligent , interesting and advanced musician of the Rock era . Everything was self taught ,but you could bet your last dollar that if you were up for an argument or discussion on any subject with Frank Zappa ,you'd better be researched and prepared for a mauling such was his prodigious intellect ....they don't make ' em like that any more !
I am a huge Zappa fan but I do not put him on that pedestal. He continued with fallible arguments on occasion. For example he claimed that tobacco is a vegetable and further claimed that arguments against smoking were a government conspiracy.
Frank Zappa displays his enormous intelligence, humor and cool here. Not sure what the point of the questions is, that rock wasn't causing political change? First off, rock started as good time music with a strong back beat, way different from the music of our elders, rebellious and wild. It was a revolution in and of itself. Nearly 7 decades later and it has gone through a lot of iterations, but anyone complaining that it doesn't speak to political ideas missed the 60's I guess, for that notion was everywhere back then, rock was the soundtrack for massive civil rights marches, anti war marches, lots of groups sang passionately about the changes that were needed, Dylan was all over it, and all of that music was on the radio. Sorry, no idea who the young lady is, may her identity be revealed to you. Thanks for the Frank video!
Unspeakable and utterly typical Boomer self-importance, believing that your twatty predilection for rock music had revolutionary political consequences. The men in suits didn't give two shits if 20,000 unwashed Jimi Hendrix aficionados were marching in front of the White House, and it had zero bearing on their decision-making.
That is exactly right. In 1967, Frank himself was commissioned to write a book about the political impact of rock on young Americans, but didn't, in the end write it. Perhaps you should!
Former adjunct music professor here. "Good time music with a strong back beat, way different from the music of our elders, rebellious and wild" could very easily be used to describe swing music of the 1930's. In fact, the drum set patterns that would later infuse rock and roll were invented back then. And even before that the jazz, blues, and "hillbilly" music of the 1920's was considered scandalous because the radio stations weren't supposed to be broadcasting that "vulgar" music. And if anyone doesn't understand that these styles of music were, in fact, political then I'd question their understanding of the topic. Jazz was both a "good time music music with a strong backbeat" and an integral part of the Harlem Renaissance. Hillbilly music was giving voice to the downtrodden white working class and blues was doing the same for the black working class, demographics that were basically considered invisible and inconsequential in polite American society.
@@southtxguitarist8926 Thank you for your comment which, combined with those of others on this thread, is giving me at any rate, a pleasant run-through of music's relationship with politics.
" I am gross and perverted I'm obsessed and deranged I have existed for years but very little has changed I'm the tool of the government and industry too for I am destined to rule and regulate you . I may be vile and pernicious but you can't look away I make you think I'm delicious with the stuff that I say I'm the best you can get have you guessed me yet ? I'm the slime oozing out of your TV set. " 17 when I first heard those lyrics even more relevent today. Over to you Main Stream Media.
One thing missing in his amazing comment/opinion is the spectrum of artist to entertainer. The Osmonds were entertainers more than artists (imo and it's not a judgement nor am I suggesting they were "less than"), and Zappa was an artist more than entertainer. Pop music is full of wonderful artists and entertainers and you can be both (but being successful at both is rarer), but at the end of the day, those same marketers and record companies built some of these acts from the ground up, where others were simply "discovered" fully formed (not meaning they didn't evolved, but just that they already had their voice and look with little or no involvement from the record companies). Nothing wrong with either, though I'll admit I lean towards the artists who can entertain vs. the entertainers who have some artistry. Regardless, they got exposure from the record company machine and all had to deal with them. I think that is what Zappa is saying, though he didn't really answer her questions.
The Osmonds did a great album called Crazy Horses, which proved to be influential in the late Eighties. Paul Gilbert refers to it as a seminal influence. They were a bit more than just teen artists.
I'm in the audience when he recorded live tracks for the album A Ship Arriving To Late To Save A Drowning Witch!!!!!!!! Never forget it!!!!!!!!!!! Great show!!!!!! Steve Vai was only 21 years old running around the stage like a mad man!!!!!!!! Frank was on his A game that night!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I see most of the people here completely misunderstood his statements. The music reflects the listeners, it is inherently political. Revolutionaries listen to music.
Frank was singularly, painfully, honest about music. Always. As you say. But he was also capable of not being honest to himself. Especially with regard to his smoking and especially his eventual cancer. Which was likely at least partly due to that habit. No human is without their foibles. And Frank Zappa, as brilliant as he was, was also sometimes frail, and as self-deluded as the rest of us.
I think so, but his own education (changing schools across the country multiple times so that he never solidified friendships and schooling) left him against the concept of university education. He told me, when I complained I'd missed out (for family reasons) not to worry because schooling can 'fuck you up'. He denied further education to his four children, a big mistake, I think.
Colleen Hewitt was already a well-known performer in 1960s so unlikely, though I agree they look similar, but more likely the Australian genes involved.
Interestingly to me, Frank did this interview…probably around 1970…when FM radio was growing in popularity in the USA and various stations were beginning to develop more sharply categorized niche audiences. When I was in grade school in the New York metropolitan area prior to about 1968, the major “pop” station was WABC AM and a tropical top-40 at any given time included, pop, psychedelic rock, Motown soul, James Brown soul (a “thing” unto itself), Memphis / Muscle Shoals Southern soul, occasional jazz, folk, Country (Cash / Gentry), British Invasion and easy listening adult…ALL from a single AM station. It really WAS a wide range. You might have to suffer through Bobby Goldsboro before hitting Jefferson Airplane but they were all there.
This interview took place in summer of 1973 but your comment about the variety of of AM radio still applies. How does this information contribute to what Frank is saying?
@@stefanmatthias Interview between whom? Between Andrew Greenaway and Ahmet Zappa? I'm waiting to hear from Andrew. I don't think he was referring to this woman in this video in that footnote, because he was the first person to question if it was in fact Jen Jewel Brown on here when I posted this thread and asked if this was Jen Jewel Brown. I have since changed the title.
WhiteCamry, Do you refer to the person asking the questions? If so, it's not. Jen Jewel Brown said it was not her. Or do you refer to one of the others on the stage?
@@stefanmatthias Do you mean it's Jen Brown? It's not! Jen Brown has denied it is her. Why would she do that? It doesn''t look like Jen Brown. I have photographs but I can't post them on here.
Yes, I always found the way he listened so carefully to anything I said, and responded in a measured way, or would laugh heartily, very gratifying. I was hooked.
This point has been made several times. I changed 'challenged' to 'questioned' but it took away some of the thread's impact. Go figure. (I'm English but I like occasionally to indulge in Americanism).
@@i_want_my_shuggah when you ask a question you wait for the answer, otherwise you don't do the question and everybody stays at home. I agree with you, in fact I stopped the video half way through... bye
It was exactly that show of respect that Frank gave to me when I said his song, 'Brown Shoes Don't Make It,' was immoral. He debated with me about morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour and I was hooked. In fact, I ended up living and working in his house for three years 1968-1971 and wrote a book, the only one that gives Frank's home life, told from within.
@@paulinebutcherbird thank you for writing that book--I enjoyed it. It was refreshingly different from most of the stuff out there about FZ (and the original Mothers)
Yea, listen to Beatles pre revolver, and tell me that they made challenging music, compared to what came after Sgt Pepper (and some of Revolver/Rubber Soul).
the 'always been' is something that rubs me the wrong way, the arrogance of that generation, as in always he means as far back as 1940s, which was not a long time ago, i can picture all the war generation just laughing at these young people.
@@MiguelBaptista1981 I'm pasting what Bob Dylan has said about early Beatles: "We were driving through Colorado, we had the radio on, and eight of the top ten songs were Beatles songs…’I Want to Hold Your Hand’, all those early ones. They were doing things nobody was doing. Their chords were outrageous, just outrageous, and their harmonies made it all valid.… But I just kept it to myself that I really dug them. Everybody else thought they were for the teeny-boppers, that they were gonna pass right away. But it was obvious to me that they had staying power. I knew they were pointing the direction of where music had to go.”
One of the male Journalist become DJ of triple JJJ radio station...his name was Chris Winter,,,,he has passed away...there was another name which I don't know if male or female but was JJ.Adams....yes...Jodie JJ aDAMS....WORKED on RAM rock magazine
@@paulinebutcherbird yes....i searched as best I could and found two names of Journalists in the video...One was a guy called Chris Winter,,,and one woman was called JJ Adams...or Jodie(JJ)Adams.....she did write for rock magazine RAM....now I don't know if that one who ask the question is JJ but that is the best I could fine down here
You notice how civil this was . She asked a question, she wasnt trying to trip him up, she wasn't trying to say "got ya" or anything thing like that she just asked a valid question and he gave a valid answer.
It was that very fact that hooked me on to Frank Zappa when he employed me to take down the lyrics of Absolutely Free when he was in London. I did so but told him I thought the lyrics of Brown Shoes Don't Make It were immoral. He debated with me for nearly half an hour in the same measured way as he does here, and I was knocked out. Long story short, I ended up living and working in his house in Hollywood for three years. Frank encouraged me to write about it and I did, if you're interested.
@@christopherpetersen9956 Ah! That's nice of you,Christopher, and set me smiling, so thank you. It's available on amazon or I can send you a signed copy but if you're in America or elsewhere abroad from UK, postage is more than the cost of the book as I send them 'tracked'.
This reflects the naivete of the era -- including Frank's. I've lived long enough to realize a person who grew up listening to The Osmonds or The Jackson Five may wind up being more radical in actual terms than someone who listened to Frank Zappa. Being cynical is easy -- any adolescent can pull that off. But showing up day after day to tutor the illiterate, feed the hungry, put together tedious well documented testimony that leads to actual legislative change -- that takes commitment. Someone who listened to "Just Like a Yo Yo" may be more likely to be doing all that hard work than someone who listened to "Joe's Garage." Lots of independent promoters, radio folks, etc. and so on in the ole days could be just as predatory as the corporate overlords. The only truly radical people are the ones who practice the Golden Rule every day, not people who Rage Against the Machine as they take an Uber home from the show instead of a taxi that provides an immigrant breadwinner a living wage job.
Love Frank's music (and the Jackson Five's), but I've always had a problem with the way Frank overly generalizes. He consistently categorizes and places people firmly inside very specific boxes that he feels predict, and even dictate, all of their thoughts and behaviors. It's his own little way of ordering the universe.
@@pkmcburroughs Great way of summing him up. I've found this is true of artists many times -- their lives are based on inspiration and flow and randomness but I've noticed many are drawn to planned economics, leftism, etc. (all the while not showing up for the meetings ...). I think you nailed it when you noted it was his way of ordering the Universe -- we all have those tendencies. Artists, because they're creating, almost have an inherent God-like need to shape their mental view of the world into something like their songs, their paintings, their poems. But the reality of politics is it's pretty mundane and pedestrian much of the time and sometimes you can actually move the needle on progress more with a bake sale at your local school, where everyone is talking to one another, than a rally on a college campus where windows get smashed and the only "change" is the overtime paid to the janitors cleaning up the mess.
You make a very compelling and well-argued point. I agree with you, it is easy to be cynical and much more work to be genuine... and there's no question (in my mind) as to which of the two will find more fulfillment in life. Have a good day.
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She asked him about politics, and he responded with economics. Guy cut to the heart of the matter: marketing product.
Hence the move to more independent radio stations in 68
This is Jen Jewel Brown, a music journalist from Australia that specifically covered counter culture music. At the time this was recorded she worked for the counter-culture music magazine, Daily Planet. She started working there when she was 19.
I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown too and originally posted this thread saying so, but she has come on either here or on my FB page saying it is not her! Why did you think it was her?
@@paulinebutcherbird The year this was filmed, her appearance, and the fact her question is centered around counter-culture music.
Another person suggested Lillian Roxon, however she had shorter hair, and I believe she had already passed away before this interview was filmed. Lillian Roxon was 40 in 73, and passed away August 11th.
This woman looks fairly young, which was another reason I thought it was Jen Jewel Brown.
@@My-Name-Isnt-Important Certainly it was on this trip to Australia that Frank met Jen Brown which is why I made the wrong conclusion. I agree with you about Lillian Roxon. Baffling as to why no one who knew this woman personally has not come forward. Are they all dead? 🫤
Whoever she is/was, she seems intelligent enough to at least have a conversation w/ Frank, which is a lot more than you can say about the idiots on that Senate committee associated w/ the Parents Music Research Council who Frank just BLISTERED.
@@mcjazzer As was my own experience when I first met Frank and said that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was immoral. He debated with me on the issue of the morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour. That was my 'in'.
That was a great conversation, man. I expected a typical takedown-style video, but just got a good back-and-forth.
I think so, too. It reminds me of when I first met Frank Zappa and told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make it was immoral. He debated with me in a similar way as here but about the morality of lyrics.
She didn't challenge, she merely stood their ground as did Frank.
That's how conversation between intelligent people works, or at least used to
It's how my relationship with Frank began when I said Brown Shoes Don't Make It is immoral.
Most extremely intelligent people are highly aware that the vast majority of what we perceive as the truth is subjective. It's never about changing the opinion of the one you debate, it's about making strong points, reflecting on other's arguments, and perhaps learning from one another.
some comments here about the young woman , but Frank wasn't one to suffer fools gladly, he gave a very thoughtful answer to her question , he obviously thought it was a valid question and not confrontational like some posters on here think.
Agreed.
Hear, hear.
Some men like those commentators can't handle an intelligent question by a woman. Frank could.
The entire show is on youtube and I find the debate herein sober and serious - and Zappa seems to appreciate the high level of conversation and gives straight answers to straight questions. This is Zappa when NOT being asked silly questions :-)
How do I find it? I really want to hear the whole thing
@@SingleMalt77005 So do I !
Challenged? She asked intelligent questions, he answered intelligently.
It’s possible to be challenged and also answer intelligently
So he was challenged...
Those are silly questions. You are just buffaloed by her good looks and show-off vocabulary.
Challenged is a compliment
He answers intelligently
She had good questions. Frank had good answers. Interesting discussion, which answers the general question "Why is there so much crap on the radio/TV/Internet?"
Quite right
Asking smart questions to a brilliant man.
Agreed.
I saw Zappa at Wembley years ago and He was the best artist I'd ever seen before and since . Just AMAZING
Somebody else in this comments section described how Frank “addressed a political question with an economic answer.” I think that’s exactly the kind of rhetorical reframing the journalist was trying to call out-the question of whether music has a place in politics outside of its branding as *revolutionary, for-the-people “political” music.*
People who stand by Frank’s response without seeing the ideological position he’s coming from-a sort of populist libertarianism-aren’t picking up that nuance in her question. He answered like she expected, but did not want, him to. That’s where the tension is coming from. She asks whether it’s appropriate to think about politics in terms of "vote with your dollar" pseudo-economics, given that the concept of “revolutionary rock-n-roll” was already a massive market at the time. We might ask, “are the people determining the economy here, or is the economy determining the people?” And he simply tells her that what the people want is revolution, without himself asking whether the kind of revolution they’re demanding is one they’ve already bought. One they’ve seen before in their Hollywood blockbusters. One they’ve heard before in their record stores.
Thanks for posting this video. It’s a very telling exchange. It reminds me of the movie “Network”, in a way-a story about the media’s commodification of the phrase “I’m mad as hell, and I’m not going to take it anymore!”
I'm fascinated by the varied comments on this thread that analyse the exchange between Frank and this unknown woman in so many different ways. And here you come with another different way of seeing it, which I find compelling.
Frank would hate social media with a passion.
@Wayzor_ 🙃maybe, I think he'd run circles around a lot of "content" creators. If he felt like it. Freedom of speach.
I've said for years that we need Frank now, more than ever.
Frank was not only ahead of his time musically, he was an insightful intellectual who understood the real politics behind the business - and the world in general.
@@Gaming-Shedin your opinion, which me and millions of other people would disagree with.
@@Gaming-Shed typical jackson five listener answer
@@ButternoteBackingTracks There's always one in every video featuring Zappa. They can't wait to crap on his music.
@@richardgrier8968we're all entitled to voice our opinion and I don't have a problem as long as it's presented as such 😉
@@ButternoteBackingTracks I agree. However, "His music was crap though" comes across as a declaration of fact rather opinion. "I don't like his music, though" is an opinion.
I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't unusual to find such intelligent conversations on TV shows, no need for flashing lights, funny voices, or scripts written in baby talk by marketing teams. Whether or not one agrees with any of the speakers, it's a show by grownups made for grownups. Yeah, there was lots of garbage TV in those days as well, but where today in the open cultural sewer that TV has become would you even find something like this? I'm glad at least some memories of this time are being preserved online.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Some people argue it's the podcasts these days.
@@supernewsuper True, there are some very intelligent podcasts out there.
Frank was so much more savvy and well informed than just about any other musician. He could see through the business-end BS and the creative-end BS.
Agree with all of that though I might put it more politely!
i don't think of zappa as a genius so much as i see a very thoughtful, knowledgeable, educated man.
Exactly. We throw around the word genius way too often.
@@SillyGoose2024Well he did have the temarity to call out coming fascist theocracy in the USA in the 80s.
Here we are 40 yrs later going down that road.
@@bobbafett1849 That doesn't make him a genius, of course.
Well, his IQ qualified him as genius level. Although I was never a hardcore fan, his impressive body of work qualifies at least as much.
@@GCKelloch IQ has nothing to do with creative genius. Some serial killers had high IQs.
Don’t mess with Frank, he was a genius.
Disputed further down in the thread somewhere!
We miss Frank Zappa.
There was a time when a challenging and articulate question was welcomed, as well as the back and forth of clarifying the question. Don't be put off by style. This is dialogue. Something we no longer do much of.
We've just completed our General Election in UK and there was plenty of debate on that.
To me, this does not seem like a case of Zappa being "persistently questioned" and "challenged." To me, this sounds like a reasonable discussion about the state of the music industry and its political relevance.
I agree. A nice exchange though and worth highlighting.
The woman's opening question -- whether Zappa can ascribe and political revolutionary implications to rock -- is a serious question that provokes a serious discussion. Zappa gives an interesting answer, which basically implies that corporate radio is focused on profits and thus always caters to the interests of their sponsors. But he doesn't really answer the woman's question directly. He simply implies that corporate radio stifles whatever "political revolutionary" potential rock might have. I think Zappa is one of the smartest and politically most interesting artists in the history of rock, but his answer here is not one of his best moments, especially when one recalls that in 1973 lots of folks where getting their rock radio music from college radio stations, which could be quite radical and which were not beholden to corporate interests. My sense is that the women is scratching her head at the end because Zappa has sidestepped her question. The short answer to her question is: no, you can't really ascribe political revolutionary implications to rock, but it can and it has had political-cultural significance and relevance. Zappa's answer points in that direction.
Great comment.
I would however try and squabble about what one implies with the label "political revolutionary" vs. "political-cultural significance".
An excellent and succinct summary.
I think it depends on what is meant by "implications." If you mean, "is rock and roll the cause of political revolutions?," then no, not really. But if you mean to ask whether rock reflects revolutionary politics, or if it contributes to them, then yes, absolutely.
@@Philmoscowitz Well stated and agreed.
Hmm, for me he says, if the audience prefers and listens to hard core revolutionary music, the industry will make a station about it.
Frank Zappa was a great artist and above all a great mind.
His mental clarity is unrivaled.
I agree.
Zappa was a force of nature; his body of work was a truly superhuman output.
Title should read “Frank Zappa gets asked a question and replies”
Hmmmmm.
Right. But we all came here caught by that click-bait....😁
@@alessandrorossini8704 It seems to work!
Many people have complained about the word 'female' included in the title, so I edited it out, but then it lost its lustre so I put it back in.
Full interview
ruclips.net/video/wTLOsoMMDuE/видео.htmlsi=pRUJegA40JJR-htz
Those were great questions, the gave Zappa a chance to explain his ideas on the music industry.
I think Frank went right to the heart of the question. Money/sponsors dictated the music you heard. Life happened and music was written about it. Not the other way around. Political revolution, sex and drugs are a few of many things that inspired the music. Frank supported the young lady's statement.
Sounded like an intelligent conversation to me 🤷
@@Koettnylle yeah 👍
@@Koettnylle Offer me one that is not clickbait.
@@Koettnylle - All I see is she asked if anyone knew who she was!
@@paulinebutcherbird Frank Zappa and Anonymous Student have civil conversation despite differing views! Why can't we talk like this anymore? How's that for a better title?
@@enochlamont877 Actually that is quite good, but it is your copyright to use yourself. I can't change this title after one month but thank you for your response.
Most of the comments are out of context. This clip was taken from an hour-long Australian television programme, the central theme of which is to reflect on the relationship between cultural production and social change. The panel members are not arrogant, they are simply people interested in reflecting on the culture of their time, that's all. Full show: ruclips.net/video/wTLOsoMMDuE/видео.htmlsi=N6d8I6ZIkBwKnFJr
Were you in the audience? Do you know anyone who was?
@@paulinebutcherbird Hi Pauline. A lot of people have commented based on what you can see in this clip, which is just a fragment of a program that has a thematic focus. I was just trying to put things into context. I was 10 years old in 1973, and I am South American. I have no idea who that young woman could be. Cheers.
Wish Frank was around now. He'd probably have a Sirius XM program on a specialty station.
Don't know what that means, but it sound right.
He was sharp, and he wasn't manipulated or intimidated by people who underestimated him bbecause of his unfair public image. Listening to him here, man, did he ever put these people in their places. He wasn't a perfect human being, not a saint. But he was one of the good ones. I wish he were still here today.
This is an amazing video and I’m so wonderfully glad I saw it! I loved your book Pauline and I’m so glad to have found your presence on here to prove just as fruitful ❤
It would have been nice to allow Zappa to continue speaking . They cut him off just when my ears were perking up
That girl might think Zappa is a real man, but she will be shocked once she realises he's a muffin..
She hung around, until she found that she didn't know nothing...
@@BlondieRUclips She'll hang around 'til she finds out he doesn't know nothin'.
He speaks like a time traveler
@@slasher1563 he was a time traveler
Frank Zappa IS an intelligent artist with a complete understanding of what he is doing.
Exactly. Kudos to the woman for asking good questions.
@@harrycooper5231 I'm so glad when she gets compliments. If only she could see them!
WAS ????
Zappa was well aware of the music business environment in general and knew how it functioned. He was on top of everything and didn't take crap from anyone and his answers were always well thought out !
And he was polite.
Don't mess with Frank. There's a genius lurking under that long hair and mustache.
@@michaelthomas366 he was not infaillible
I can't imagine a world where many different types of music are available on radio stations, for my entire life it's been the same 50 songs repeated ad nauseum.
In what country do you live?
@@paulinebutcherbird the USA
Are you saying the radio stations today have less variety? Why would you listen to radio today when there is so much stuff you can listen to elsewhere?
Yep. Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish in every goddamn gas station, grocery store, auto body shop, mall, restaurant... it never ends. I honestly wish I could go places where there isn't any music.playing for once. Like just enjoy the silence and then get an earworm of music I actually like at my own discretion.
he was always very frank
Ha ha.
Jodie JJ Adams or JJ Adams...she is a rock journalist or was a rock journalist for RAM magazine...finding it hard to locate much about her.
I'm impressed.
Zappa always was a bit disregarded by the mainstream industry for the the manner he approached music. He worked out a mix in between contemporary avant-garde and rock. And he was so much aware of the mechanics of everything around him...
Indeed, and the other factor that is so often overlooked is what a brilliant businessman he was. Who else would advertise in comics? And he had no embarrassment in how he gained publicity - for example, in England on their first trip when no one had heard of them, he put on a short dress to reveal hairy legs, together with false boobs and his hair tied in bunches either side of his head to depict a Mother. The photo was all over the front pages of the music papers.
@@paulinebutcherbird Oh... Are you actually the author of the book "Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa"??? (If you are) I just bought it on my kindle and I'm thrilled with, not only with the details on Zappa's personality, but also with the quality and delicious flow of the writing.
Since my 14's that I became a fan of that twisted Zappa sound, later when enrolling to study at my home town's conservatorium of music it impacted me that Zappa was actually fascinated by Edgard Varèse as he was also a very rare orchestra conductor that wouldn't play the piano but the guitar instead... and that was another unexpected door to understand his music. But I totally agree with you on Frank's other dimension that also contributes to his musical universe, his natural curiosity and clear mind of the social mechanics that would reject or accept his work.
It must have been quite a ride to know him at his own backstage :)
Your book is absolute fun to read, and a very smart and amazing human quality approach to the reading of the personality of one of the greatest musicians of the 20th century... :)
Old Zappa fan here, but just because he isn't impressed with the Osmonds or the Jacksons, doesn't mean the people that dig them are unsophisticated. The radio station is in business to make money, so they play what's popular.
Exactly.
exactly.. it's not rocket science... and it also doesn't follow that people who are into more obscure stuff aren't able to find something of their choosing outside the mainstream radio..
It was said of Zappa that he did some "commercially interesting" music.. only to pay for his classical output that wouldn't otherwise see the light of day; one way or the other he was attuned to music that he thought would sell..
I appreciate some of his music for sure (!) but personality wise never understood his unwillingness to see that music to most, is nothing more than an auditive wallpaper that ends up being a soundtrack of life... and not something that people in general want to use to size people's profundity on whatever field with.. because by doing that, it's not so surprising to see that Zappa invariably adopted this holier than thou attitude; making a clear distinction between the plebs and those (like him!) who are supposedly "in the know"... in spite of him being eloquent when talking about politically charged topics, and in some regards well informed.. the subtle - sometimes not so subtle - disdain showed him to have a bit of a blind spot.
It sounded like he had disdain for the Beatles which doesn't make sense to me. Once the Beatles got going, it was pretty clear that they were not pandering to any radio market.
@@Thijs-Kuiken I take his comment that he wrote music the way he liked it and hopefully some other people would like it too. Of course, as you say, in the back of his mind was the constant need to make money and for that reason he turned out songs with contentious titles that brought him attention, together with his wickedly clever publicity stunts.
@@SwingoMatic2024 He's just equating bubble gum for kids, which the Beatles were in their early years. I don't know why FZ wouldn't agree with her on the "marketing to children" note - of course American radio was marketing to kids, which I was one in the 1970s. Jackson 5, Queen, Bee Gees, Cheap Trick, Chic, Elton John, all of it was aimed quite well and right at us. They tried to hit us with the Ramones but radio stations wouldn't play it, sad to say. EDIT: and the Village People!!!
Why "challenged"?
The question didn't pose any challenge, and I'm not referring to the fact that Zappa was way ahead of most of his peers, nor am I diminishing the question or the person asking it.
It was a very straightforward question that anyone with a fair knowledge of the US music business would answer without breaking a sweat.
So... why "challenged"?
Daddydoom, you are not the first person to question me about the use of the word 'challenge' so I'm going to change it to 'question' and let's see if interest falls off!
It made you comment, so you've answered your own question as to "why": engagement for the algorithm
@@LordVader1094 Which is funny because a lot of presumably older commenters bemoan the "old times" when such intelligent discussion could have taken a place without artificial hype.
@@paulinebutcherbird anything related with Zappa has always its fair share of interest from the get go.
Using tricks to get more people to come is just dishonest.
@@DaddyDoom I'm so flabbergasted by your reply, I'm unable to make further comment.
Good questions, no challenge. Smart fella. She is , too.
This was great. Thanks
I hope you've seen my correction that this is not Jen Brown, but whoever she is, your comment is appreciated.
@@paulinebutcherbird thanks for the clarification. No problem. Great post.
He is sorely missed
True. If only he could know that.
Looks like she asks a good question (about a revolution without musical accompaniment) that he doesn't clearly answer except that music can correspond to the mood of a particular audience (and perhaps inspire them?) She's articulate and focused, but seems to be careful in her approach. Nothing bad meant about Zappa, just complementing the woman. Maybe they need a clear definition of "revolution" that they can both address.
Valid point.
@@paulinebutcherbird Thank you.
Interesting question/comment from the (I think she is) British woman about revolutions having musical accompaniment in light of the fact that this interview is likely before the rise of British punk as the collective voice of British youth's discontent with their future prospects. The Sex Pistols' "No future for you" was as much an economic statement as it was a political one.
Thanks for sharing
Actually, she's an Australian, perhaps a cultured one, because you are not alone in thinking she is English. This exchange took place in 1973 and I believe the Sex Pistols formed in 1975 so your comment is correct.
Very 60's counter culture questions...Frank Zappa just gets cooler the more you know.
If you would like to know more such as Frank's daily life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more, then try 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa Laurel Canyon 1968-1971'.
I love this back and forth, both respectful.
Indeed, but it was this very fact about Frank that hooked me on to him when I met him in London in 1967 and took down the lyrics of Absolutely Free. I told him that Brown Shoes Don't Make It was an immoral song and he debated with in a similar way as in this video. Long story short, I ended up living and working in his log cabin in Hollywood and write about the experience in my memoir which details Frank's home life not shown in other books, from getting up to going to bed, composing and rehearsing with the Mothers, visiting rock stars, freaks, family squabbles, and more. 'Freak Out! My Life with Frank Zappa, Laurel Canyon 1968-1971.'
Pete Townshend was once asked a similar long-winded question and replied, "Um..."
Seems like Frank always wanted to make a biting, dead honest comment with his music and was very critical but that was good! I think he was in his way a big hearted person. He strived to be the best he could be and for what he believed in with a tremendous work ethic, the highest artistic standards and he gave lots of opportunites for other musicians to shine. A collaborative artist. Poor Frank - he died too young. Chain smoking probably didnt help. I loved st alfonso’s pancake - father oblivion. But a few of the pure guitar solo ones were so damn magical - like black napkins- and watermelons - that one was so good it still makes me cry. so much feeling! But I also loved jackson five so go figure! This interview was really cool. The lady clearly dug him.
I agree with all of that except I rarely play Water Melon because I'm afraid by doing so, I will dull its magic.
Thanks Pauline! 😊
I hope that means you've seen my correction. So annoyed with myself.
I went backstage after a Zappa concert in Tallahassee in late 1970. It was at the FSU gym and I just walked in to the dressing room as a deep fan of his music. He was so normal it was almost strange, he sat on a sofa with a Nagra portable tape recorder and a very expensive-looking microphone, taping the goings on probably for future use. I asked him specific questions about specific album tracks and he answered them. If you talked music with Frank he took you seriously. It was politics and other subjects where he tended to go off. His sense of humor was astounding.
What a great story. You were lucky it was 1970, a year before he was knocked off stage in England. After that, it was difficult to get near him as his bodyguard stood in the way.
See Frank knew about the music business
Possibly his best advice to other musicians was to ensure they get music publishing rights on their compositions. It was one of his main sources of income. One of his
My favourite musician. Maverick, iconoclastic, virtuoso, always provocative with a brilliant musical mind- there is none like him in the music scene today.
He was a great guitarist for his genre.
He would say your type are shallow and ignorant.
@@USA92 But it would just be his opinion, and quite likely a uniformed one.
Conlan Nancarrow before FZ then after, the people you think are not seen, are. But not in the industry as much. The new ones today are mostly on SM making scenes, it's out of mainstream industry vocabulary. FZ had other genus players are now are teaching kids. Check em out - Tommy Mars as a collage gig guest blew my mind - the kids were on fire! Belew is making waves with bringing more audience from other scenes into maverick music... Stuff is bubbling, dude.
@@USA92 He would not say such a thing. Frank Zappa was polite.
What Shame Frank Passed away so young! When he Spoke at the 1985 Senate Hearings on Music records being Labeled! His ⭐As a Brilliant Genius! Shined the Brightest that Day! Along with other Associates Dean Schneider and John Denver
In my estimation the single most intelligent , interesting and advanced musician of the Rock era . Everything was self taught ,but you could bet your last dollar that if you were up for an argument or discussion on any subject with Frank Zappa ,you'd better be researched and prepared for a mauling such was his prodigious intellect ....they don't make ' em like that any more !
I am a huge Zappa fan but I do not put him on that pedestal. He continued with fallible arguments on occasion. For example he claimed that tobacco is a vegetable and further claimed that arguments against smoking were a government conspiracy.
Frank Zappa displays his enormous intelligence, humor and cool here. Not sure what the point of the questions is, that rock wasn't causing political change? First off, rock started as good time music with a strong back beat, way different from the music of our elders, rebellious and wild. It was a revolution in and of itself. Nearly 7 decades later and it has gone through a lot of iterations, but anyone complaining that it doesn't speak to political ideas missed the 60's I guess, for that notion was everywhere back then, rock was the soundtrack for massive civil rights marches, anti war marches, lots of groups sang passionately about the changes that were needed, Dylan was all over it, and all of that music was on the radio. Sorry, no idea who the young lady is, may her identity be revealed to you. Thanks for the Frank video!
Unspeakable and utterly typical Boomer self-importance, believing that your twatty predilection for rock music had revolutionary political consequences. The men in suits didn't give two shits if 20,000 unwashed Jimi Hendrix aficionados were marching in front of the White House, and it had zero bearing on their decision-making.
@@pruneface90 Zero-bearing on whose decision-making? A pretty hostile response to jesseimpersonal's very measured comment.
That is exactly right. In 1967, Frank himself was commissioned to write a book about the political impact of rock on young Americans, but didn't, in the end write it. Perhaps you should!
Former adjunct music professor here. "Good time music with a strong back beat, way different from the music of our elders, rebellious and wild" could very easily be used to describe swing music of the 1930's. In fact, the drum set patterns that would later infuse rock and roll were invented back then. And even before that the jazz, blues, and "hillbilly" music of the 1920's was considered scandalous because the radio stations weren't supposed to be broadcasting that "vulgar" music. And if anyone doesn't understand that these styles of music were, in fact, political then I'd question their understanding of the topic. Jazz was both a "good time music music with a strong backbeat" and an integral part of the Harlem Renaissance. Hillbilly music was giving voice to the downtrodden white working class and blues was doing the same for the black working class, demographics that were basically considered invisible and inconsequential in polite American society.
@@southtxguitarist8926 Thank you for your comment which, combined with those of others on this thread, is giving me at any rate, a pleasant run-through of music's relationship with politics.
Zappa was one of the most articulate of musicians. And he's dead-on about the advertisers keeping radio "safe". Particularly the past 40 years.
" I am gross and perverted I'm obsessed and deranged I have existed for years but very little has changed I'm the tool of the government and industry too for I am destined to rule and regulate you . I may be vile and pernicious but you can't look away I make you think I'm delicious with the stuff that I say I'm the best you can get have you guessed me yet ? I'm the slime oozing out of your TV set. " 17 when I first heard those lyrics even more relevent today. Over to you Main Stream Media.
I think it's more related to the internet than traditional TV in the UK at any rate.
Oh yeah!
Popular music is, by it's nature, more about fashion than artistic expression.
Hmmm.
when it comes to meanstream, it's more or less the case. It still tells something about the general mindset of society, which is what Frank is saying
@@boxonothing4087 Indeed.
One thing missing in his amazing comment/opinion is the spectrum of artist to entertainer. The Osmonds were entertainers more than artists (imo and it's not a judgement nor am I suggesting they were "less than"), and Zappa was an artist more than entertainer. Pop music is full of wonderful artists and entertainers and you can be both (but being successful at both is rarer), but at the end of the day, those same marketers and record companies built some of these acts from the ground up, where others were simply "discovered" fully formed (not meaning they didn't evolved, but just that they already had their voice and look with little or no involvement from the record companies). Nothing wrong with either, though I'll admit I lean towards the artists who can entertain vs. the entertainers who have some artistry. Regardless, they got exposure from the record company machine and all had to deal with them. I think that is what Zappa is saying, though he didn't really answer her questions.
The Osmonds did a great album called Crazy Horses, which proved to be influential in the late Eighties. Paul Gilbert refers to it as a seminal influence. They were a bit more than just teen artists.
@@Hasil2 Spot On! Crazy Horses the song covered by the Alex Harvey Band!
I'd say she probed him instead of challenged him.
Oh, well.
He's wearing a very persistent jacket - I'm glad the picture is in black and white.
A wonderfully drole comment. Thank you.
The shots of the band at the end are of the lineup with Ponty from the early Seventies. So that might help fix the date.
This video is a section from a longer program on Australian television in 1973. It is stated elsewhere on this thread whose program it was.
I'm in the audience when he recorded live tracks for the album A Ship Arriving To Late To Save A Drowning Witch!!!!!!!! Never forget it!!!!!!!!!!! Great show!!!!!! Steve Vai was only 21 years old running around the stage like a mad man!!!!!!!! Frank was on his A game that night!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It never ceases to impress me the structure of Frank Zappa mind
Yes, that's what got to me, too, among other things, like his ability to listen and debate.
If Zappa were alive today, he would say, the internet made all the idiots come out and show their true stupidity.
Nothing ever changes. It just either gets repackaged, or people forget and repeat.
What does that mean?
@@paulinebutcherbird Listen to what Frank is saying.
@@SRFArtandAudio Your comment is too vague. You need to be more specific.
I see most of the people here completely misunderstood his statements.
The music reflects the listeners, it is inherently political.
Revolutionaries listen to music.
Perhaps add that some of it is political in essence, where there is none in a song like 'Love Me Do.'
She made a relatively simple question sound very complicated. Frank was clearer with his answers than she was with the question!
Frank could play a bicycle like a ring in a bell.
Frank was nothing but honest here, as always.
Frank was singularly, painfully, honest about music. Always. As you say. But he was also capable of not being honest to himself. Especially with regard to his smoking and especially his eventual cancer. Which was likely at least partly due to that habit. No human is without their foibles. And Frank Zappa, as brilliant as he was, was also sometimes frail, and as self-deluded as the rest of us.
Yep. Credit to the woman, good questions.
He should have been a college professor. (And that's a compliment.)
I think so, but his own education (changing schools across the country multiple times so that he never solidified friendships and schooling) left him against the concept of university education. He told me, when I complained I'd missed out (for family reasons) not to worry because schooling can 'fuck you up'. He denied further education to his four children, a big mistake, I think.
That is Colleen Hewitt when she was 24. She is an Australian singer and actress.
No it’s not!
Colleen Hewitt was already a well-known performer in 1960s so unlikely, though I agree they look similar, but more likely the Australian genes involved.
Interestingly to me, Frank did this interview…probably around 1970…when FM radio was growing in popularity in the USA and various stations were beginning to develop more sharply categorized niche audiences.
When I was in grade school in the New York metropolitan area prior to about 1968, the major “pop” station was WABC AM and a tropical top-40 at any given time included, pop, psychedelic rock, Motown soul, James Brown soul (a “thing” unto itself), Memphis / Muscle Shoals Southern soul, occasional jazz, folk, Country (Cash / Gentry), British Invasion and easy listening adult…ALL from a single AM station. It really WAS a wide range. You might have to suffer through Bobby Goldsboro before hitting Jefferson Airplane but they were all there.
This interview took place in summer of 1973 but your comment about the variety of of AM radio still applies. How does this information contribute to what Frank is saying?
The person is Jen Jewel Brown. Source of proof is the footnote (ii) in the Ahmet Zappa interview on the "zappanews" page.
I'm checking this out and will get back to you.
@@paulinebutcherbird The interview from Monday 5th February 2018.
@@stefanmatthias Interview between whom? Between Andrew Greenaway and Ahmet Zappa? I'm waiting to hear from Andrew. I don't think he was referring to this woman in this video in that footnote, because he was the first person to question if it was in fact Jen Jewel Brown on here when I posted this thread and asked if this was Jen Jewel Brown. I have since changed the title.
@@paulinebutcherbird
I'm very much hoping we find out who she was/is.
@@rooruffneck Me, too, but I confess to not understanding why this thread has stimulated so much interest. Is it just to find out who she is/was?
His 1971 london Assault......Made Frank even More Serious..
He was healing here..
Valid point.
The blonde is Jen Jewel Brown.
Yes, I think you're correct!
WhiteCamry, Do you refer to the person asking the questions? If so, it's not. Jen Jewel Brown said it was not her. Or do you refer to one of the others on the stage?
Correct, it's her.
@@stefanmatthias Do you mean it's Jen Brown? It's not! Jen Brown has denied it is her. Why would she do that? It doesn''t look like Jen Brown. I have photographs but I can't post them on here.
He looked handsome, particularly his eyes as he's thinking, and he spoke in an eloquent manner.
Agreed.
eloquent yes, but he is respectfully hideous , and made his music more shocking, he was not the every day joe, he was the antagonist.
Yes, I always found the way he listened so carefully to anything I said, and responded in a measured way, or would laugh heartily, very gratifying. I was hooked.
How can you be respectfully hideous?
best dialogue with Zappa ever-- for the first time we hear and see his big brain, and politics
Very Well Said Frank ! Basically, know your target audience.
It didn't seem as if he was challenged at all by these questions. He answered them very clearly.
This point has been made several times. I changed 'challenged' to 'questioned' but it took away some of the thread's impact. Go figure. (I'm English but I like occasionally to indulge in Americanism).
...question, just starting the answer, another question, just staring the answer, another question, just...
It is a bit like that but they get there in the end.
@@paulinebutcherbird Ok, I stopped watching half way through, was starting getting nervous... bye
@@dario1837you are not forced to watch it, doodoo.
@@i_want_my_shuggah when you ask a question you wait for the answer, otherwise you don't do the question and everybody stays at home. I agree with you, in fact I stopped the video half way through... bye
This is the man that said politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex. I think that's a good answer .
Funnily enough, this is still the exact issue today
Monday Conference Australia 1973 Robert Moore
Melbourne, I believe.
F.V.Z .speaks very respectfully and consideratlely with those less enlightened.
It was exactly that show of respect that Frank gave to me when I said his song, 'Brown Shoes Don't Make It,' was immoral. He debated with me about morality of lyrics for nearly half an hour and I was hooked. In fact, I ended up living and working in his house for three years 1968-1971 and wrote a book, the only one that gives Frank's home life, told from within.
@@paulinebutcherbird thank you for writing that book--I enjoyed it. It was refreshingly different from most of the stuff out there about FZ (and the original Mothers)
@@MikeHarris-nt3xc Thank you, Mike, for reading it and letting me know.
@@paulinebutcherbird incredible! Lucky you!
@@jessesingersongwriter Give you're so literate, why not read it yourself?
"always been groups...like the Beatles...." 🤣
Yea, listen to Beatles pre revolver, and tell me that they made challenging music, compared to what came after Sgt Pepper (and some of Revolver/Rubber Soul).
the 'always been' is something that rubs me the wrong way, the arrogance of that generation, as in always he means as far back as 1940s, which was not a long time ago, i can picture all the war generation just laughing at these young people.
@@Soundeagle3456 I was laughing because he lumped the Beatles in with pop bands. 😝
@@MiguelBaptista1981 I'm pasting what Bob Dylan has said about early Beatles: "We were driving through Colorado, we had the radio on, and eight of the top ten songs were Beatles songs…’I Want to Hold Your Hand’, all those early ones. They were doing things nobody was doing. Their chords were outrageous, just outrageous, and their harmonies made it all valid.… But I just kept it to myself that I really dug them. Everybody else thought they were for the teeny-boppers, that they were gonna pass right away. But it was obvious to me that they had staying power. I knew they were pointing the direction of where music had to go.”
Love his replies!
She is asking intelligent questions. Few American panelists/guests are to found with such legitimate inquiries.
I thought so too. Strange that no one has come forward to say who she is.
@@paulinebutcherbird She's a nobody FFS!
no doubt !!...we could use Mr Zappa and his intellect in the US...right now !!
Indeed.
Always the articulate one!
I hope you've seen my correction that this is not Jen Brown. But still, whoever she is, your comment stands.
One of the male Journalist become DJ of triple JJJ radio station...his name was Chris Winter,,,,he has passed away...there was another name which I don't know if male or female but was JJ.Adams....yes...Jodie JJ aDAMS....WORKED on RAM rock magazine
Are you referring to people in this video?
@@paulinebutcherbird yes....i searched as best I could and found two names of Journalists in the video...One was a guy called Chris Winter,,,and one woman was called JJ Adams...or Jodie(JJ)Adams.....she did write for rock magazine RAM....now I don't know if that one who ask the question is JJ but that is the best I could fine down here
@@mikedemike5393 Fascinating. Is RAM magazine still published? Perhaps I could contact them about Jodie Adams?
well Frank sorted that out
You notice how civil this was . She asked a question, she wasnt trying to trip him up, she wasn't trying to say "got ya" or anything thing like that she just asked a valid question and he gave a valid answer.
It was that very fact that hooked me on to Frank Zappa when he employed me to take down the lyrics of Absolutely Free when he was in London. I did so but told him I thought the lyrics of Brown Shoes Don't Make It were immoral. He debated with me for nearly half an hour in the same measured way as he does here, and I was knocked out. Long story short, I ended up living and working in his house in Hollywood for three years. Frank encouraged me to write about it and I did, if you're interested.
A time when civility between civilians prevailed.
Frank breaks it down, and it remains consistent….
@@paulinebutcherbird
I want to buy your book.
@@christopherpetersen9956 Ah! That's nice of you,Christopher, and set me smiling, so thank you. It's available on amazon or I can send you a signed copy but if you're in America or elsewhere abroad from UK, postage is more than the cost of the book as I send them 'tracked'.
Academics versus creative
Possibly. I think Frank would have benefited, and his four children, had they all attended university.
This reflects the naivete of the era -- including Frank's. I've lived long enough to realize a person who grew up listening to The Osmonds or The Jackson Five may wind up being more radical in actual terms than someone who listened to Frank Zappa. Being cynical is easy -- any adolescent can pull that off. But showing up day after day to tutor the illiterate, feed the hungry, put together tedious well documented testimony that leads to actual legislative change -- that takes commitment. Someone who listened to "Just Like a Yo Yo" may be more likely to be doing all that hard work than someone who listened to "Joe's Garage." Lots of independent promoters, radio folks, etc. and so on in the ole days could be just as predatory as the corporate overlords. The only truly radical people are the ones who practice the Golden Rule every day, not people who Rage Against the Machine as they take an Uber home from the show instead of a taxi that provides an immigrant breadwinner a living wage job.
Love Frank's music (and the Jackson Five's), but I've always had a problem with the way Frank overly generalizes. He consistently categorizes and places people firmly inside very specific boxes that he feels predict, and even dictate, all of their thoughts and behaviors. It's his own little way of ordering the universe.
@@pkmcburroughs Great way of summing him up. I've found this is true of artists many times -- their lives are based on inspiration and flow and randomness but I've noticed many are drawn to planned economics, leftism, etc. (all the while not showing up for the meetings ...). I think you nailed it when you noted it was his way of ordering the Universe -- we all have those tendencies. Artists, because they're creating, almost have an inherent God-like need to shape their mental view of the world into something like their songs, their paintings, their poems. But the reality of politics is it's pretty mundane and pedestrian much of the time and sometimes you can actually move the needle on progress more with a bake sale at your local school, where everyone is talking to one another, than a rally on a college campus where windows get smashed and the only "change" is the overtime paid to the janitors cleaning up the mess.
You make a very compelling and well-argued point. I agree with you, it is easy to be cynical and much more work to be genuine... and there's no question (in my mind) as to which of the two will find more fulfillment in life. Have a good day.
I love your comment because I hate Uber and love taxi cabs.
Sounds like the dude was pretty rigid.