Acoustic panels that actually look GOOD
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- In this video, we try to make some acoustic panels that don't look like tacky 70's sci-fi movie props. And we do it using a product called Sonopan, a sound insulation material that I've never seen used in acoustic panels before. The first 1,000 people to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/zacbuil...
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I would attach Led strips behind the fabric. Might look very cool.
How much did this project cost?
isnt trial supposed to be free?
DUDE.....why not go for LOGIC: get large shawls or beach blankets or curtains or WHATEVER cheap fabric you like, and hang them to eat sound waves.
It would NEVER occur to me to use wasteful foam padding that costs money!
At the same time, if you are given a ton of those foam paddings that look like POTATO CHIPS with Ridges....just hang XMAS LIGHTS OVER THEM.
The shadows alone will be lovely!
There needs to be a clear distinction between SOUND PROOFING ... and ACOUSTICAL TREATMENT. They are entirely different things - and hence why different materials are typically used for each application. If you are trying to sound proof a room - you are largely concerned with sound transmission - and will largely be working at the level of room construction,. If you are trying to improve the sound within a room - you are largely concerned with sound absorption, and preventing the build-up of reflected sound within the space. The sciences and materials used in pursuit of each objective are distinctly different.
This product is used to dampen vibration through the wall assembly - not the best for wall absorbers... Okay solution but not effective for many locations.
That's why these kinds of videos are so frustrating to see get popularity, it's basically just acoustic misinformation.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
And, yet the creator in question doesn't bother to respond to the best comment on his video pointing out the misinformation is this video. But, he sure as hell responds to the ones praising his misinformation. Yet another example of why removing the dislike button is a terrible decision.
I mean, these are easy approachable projects to do, so they gain a lot of traction and views. But if he was worried about audio quality then he would start with carpet... that is the qucik-and-easy cheap fix. Even a short area rug will provide a huge amount of benefit for that kind of room just because it would be on the largest and most reflective surface in the room.
But I whole-heartedly agree, this is just the wrong product for the project. In an open room you want something dense, movable, and with lots of air space, dense foam is stupidly expensive, which is why rockwool is such an easy 2nd place (but still extremely good!) option. And I believe there are some thinner rockwool batts out there if you need something with a lower profile - It won't perform as well, but it would work better than light-weight fiber board. Heck, he probably could have bought cheap foam board and put fabric around a few layers of it for similar results, and no need for woodwork at that point.
"Better to be too big than too small." My man why you gotta do me like that.
😂😂😂
It's true my friend 😅
Zac, a few suggestions. 1. Float your panel a few inches off the walls. 2. Place your panels for primary reflections (think of mirror reflections from you to microphone off walls…if you’re not already doing this. 3. (Perhaps the last large improvement) Put panels on the ceiling (and thick rugs on the floor).
Very curious my guy, why off the wall a few inches? Spare no detail (that youre willing to share). And by the mirror are you referring to directly behind him or directly in front ?
you can also use layers of towels instead of sonopan behind picture frames. cheaper and much better than most materials.
@@Straixin Hi Straixin, basically you want to space the panel with a gap between the wall because it will absorb more sound. The sound not only goes thru and returns back through the panel, but the more sound traveling in parallel to the panel can be absorbed. Gapping can vary based on material and thickness, but most sites seem to recommend 3-6 inches. More is better but become impractical for small rooms as it eats up so much space. Experiment with gap distance if possible, considering what is still practical (eating up too much space or wide acceptance factor, etc.)
The placement should be for first reflection lines from each speaker off of one “bounce” to each ear. This means from each angle (primary reflections), from front, sides, floor, rear and ceiling. For example, for your left speaker to you left ear, you will need to cover six reflections: L. Speaker to front wall to L ear; L. Speaker to rear wall to L. ear, L. Speaker to L. Wall to L. Ear; L. Speaker to R. Wall to R. Ear; so on and so forth from ceiling and floor too. Also remember to not only do right speaker to right ear, but also the cross from L speaker to R ear and R. Speaker to L. Ear.
This sounds like a ton, but usually panels can be positioned to hit multiple reflection points, so hopefully you do not need to make 24 panels, but hopefully can be managed with as few as six panels.
From there, every reflection after that is also reduced because you reduced the primary. Think of all reflections in your room as a form of noise that interferes with (boosts and attenuates with varying frequency phase/timing of) your original sound/signal.
Once those are addressed to help as much as easily possible, treating corners with bass traps can also tame rooms. Unfortunately, small rooms like bedrooms (8x10’ and up to I believe 14’ wide) will have a difficult time sounding really good due to length of low frequency sound waves , but these starting tips can help make a room much more useable.
The original video by Zac may have already considered these, and I have not watched other videos of his, and it looks likely he did. Just wanted to chime in if those wanting to do something like this want to try and get more mileage from their effort. Hope this helps!
@@1stontario if you go this route, get cheap towels at GoodWill or the like.
good advice. Many overlook the 5th and 6th wall. (ceiling and floor). Every music studio I have seen has a large persian rug.
I’ve just made similar panels but using 3-4 bath towels, stretched and stapled into the frame, covered with a quality black bed sheet. They work great. I had the wood from old bed slats and the towels were $2 each (from a hotel) so they cost me around $10 each to make. They are very large.
Ha! That's an awesome idea and something I never would've thought to do. Nice one Craig!
@@ZacBuilds someone else on RUclips gave me the idea. He did tests with towels and they were the most effective
Commenting so I can come back. Thanks for the idea!!
Recyclable ♻️ cotton is the best for acoustic panels and ceiling clouds. And you'll never have an issue with harmful particles in the air. Demin is the way to go. Nevertheless, it's more expensive, but just buy cheap bath towels, and you have it.
Hey Zac, fellow Canadian checking in! Appreciate the videos, but I'd like to clear up some misinformation for people reading the comments!
The foam panels you show at the beginning only reduce flutter echo and are a cheap, not-so-great solution. They are not similar to the diffusion panel you made because diffusion and absorption are different concepts. As an aside, the wooden diffuser could've been improved by using an online calculator for proper block lengths and placement rather than randomly gluing pieces.
Back to the panels, there's a reason why thicker panels are used and that's because they're meant to absorb sound waves. Sonopan is a material used for sound proofing, which is different than sound treating. The purpose of Sonopan is to keep the sound from travelling through the wall, but if you use it in a panel, it's like covering up a wall by adding another wall. Rockwool does a much better job letting sound waves bounce around and get "trapped" in the panel.
Finally, flutter echo is not the only thing you're trying to fix with sound treating. A major issue is bass build up, which is at its worst in triplanar areas (corners). Panels should be placed where you're likely to have first reflections, but also in corners to mitigate bass build up. Your room has multiple windows and tall ceilings which is kind of a nightmare for acoustic treatment. You could certainly do it, but you'd need a lot more panels and better placement for more effective treatment. There really isn't a huge difference in your audio test.
Hope this helps you and other people reading and if you want to hear my own DIY acoustic panels at work, feel free to check out my music. Cheers!
Hey! Thanks for the insightful comment. Got a link to an online calculator for a wooden diffuser? Thanks!
+1
also, 'i think ...' is never a good way to discern if something is better or not... always measure or at least compare technical specification
Just my two cents here. I wouldn't call it a bass build up, but it's reflections in the corners that cause issues. It makes you pretty much hear the bass 3 times. It's best, if possible, with a normal listening setup, to move the sub forward (same with speakers, move them a bit away from the wall). Depending on the sub size, order, specs, room setup, it can be a third of the length of the room inwards to really improve the sound, to improve sound quality and sharpness of the bass. Especially for bass, it really matters if it's a second, third or fourth order design. If it's a fourth order, where is the vent located, etc. But on the other hand, build up might be a nice way to put it.
Bass traps do work, and work well. Not only on the vertical parts, but also horizontal, at the bottom of the wall.
I fully agree with everything else you said here.
_"Sonopan is a material used for sound proofing, which is different than sound treating"_ -- can you elaborate? Here's my thinking: the problem is sound reflections off the smooth wall surface. If Sonopan is designed to block sound (and it seems you agree it is), then it's preventing sound from reaching the reflective wall surface, preventing echo. And of course, if some sound does make it to the wall, it has to come back out through the sound-blocking Sonopan, further attenuating the sound.
As long as Sonopan sheets aren't _reflecting_ the sound back into the room, isn't "blocking" really the same as "absorbing" (i.e. what rockwool does)? How are those two things actually different? How would a material block sound without actually absorbing it or vice a versa?
@@harvey66616 accoustic panels are not designed to block sound. Accoustic panels are designed to diffuse sound. These panels now block sound, not diffuse sound. They take audio out of the room, instead of spreading it around. Let me give an example. Let's say you have headphones on. The headphone you bought have 100% separated channels. The left signal is only in the left ear, the right signal only in the left ear. After 30 minutes or so, you start feeling tired. That's because audio isn't supposed to work like that. These headphones are blocking the sound to the other ear. Now modify the headphones to let, let's say 10% of the audio pass to the other ear with a 2ms delay. Suddenly you can listen to it for hours and hours.
Both rockwoll and sonopan are therefor kind of a problematic way of solving something. The wooden structure behind him in the beginning would do a much better job. It still reduces echoes, but by diffusing not by absorbing.
Recently found your channel and been binge watching. You attention to detail is how I work myself. Im not a professional carpenter but a retired auto body tech so perfection is still how I approach any projects car/home related. Love the channel dude keep on rocking!!
Thanks Kevin, thats really nice of you to say and I hugely appreciate the support. Thank you so much man!
@@ZacBuilds my pleasure 💪🏼
The corners are always the worst part of covering frames with fabric. But always start each side in the center of all sides and work your way toward the corners. It makes it much easier to keep it all smaooth and straight
Appreciate the tip man! I'll keep that in mind for next time
Ok, first the big problem with the foam panels, besides their being ugly, is that they only absorb in the very upper frequencies, which definitely helps but is not ideal. The reason why Rockwool is chosen is due precisely to it's thickness. The thicker the panel, the greater the sound absorption and the better it performs at absorbing a wider range of frequencies (but not bass, that is a whole other story). The other thing most folks do not do is to mount the panels a few inches off the walls, which when measuring shows significant increase in sound absorption across a maximum frequency range. And the viewed below is entirely correct that sound absorption and sound proofing are very different goals requiring different materials. Those stiff, flat panels may reflect sound waves as much as they absorb them, which is not that much help, whereas rockwool will not tend to produce any reflections. It should also be mentioned that sound diffusion panels should be constructed and installed along with absorption panels, at nearly 50/50 ratio, and some will suggest mixing them along any given wall space. But hey, much better to treat your walls with something vs nothing. I have seen so many pictures of extremely expensive top line hifi systems set up in entirely untreated rooms, which likely sounded horrible.
Hey Zac, great idea! Sound tech here and I see so many people in the DIY space turning to definitely less safe options like fiberglass insulation in their home-made panels. It was great to see an alternative use for something like Sonopan. Honestly, and this is probably due more to how perhaps have your Yeti set up with its back/rejection towards the windows (particularly if you have it set to any thing other than omni), I heard the most monumental change on your lav mic even before you started doing the tests so it’s definitely doing the job! Though it still did help tame some of the mids/upper mids for a definitely cleaner sound over the Yeti. Great idea!
Thanks Matt, unfortunately I think I'm a bit of an idiot. I forgot I had my yeti set to automatically apply a light reverb reduction to all recordings. (It saves time before the wall treatment haha) So ya the lav mic actually gave a much more realistic demonstration of the effect of these panels. Ahhh well you live and you learn right?
Nothing dangerous about rockwool panels , especially because they are covered in fabric
Rockwool isn’t fibreglass.
From my laptop, I wasn't able to hear a difference. However, when I put in my headphones, it was a big difference.
Great work man!
It definitely improves the sound, but you can only go so far if you want to keep it minimal. Cause there's still quite clear echo from it just being a small room with parallel surfaces.
Some random easy things to improve it could be carpet, close curtains, open closet.
You could try tackling some nice basstraps in another video.
There’s a trick for getting upholstery tight and wrinkle free. Start with one staple tacking down each side, then do opposite sides working from the middle outwards. For the tacks, put a small scrap of cardboard in there so you can easily pull out the staple if needed. I’d start with the two long sides, pulling tight both across and away from the tack. Pulling both ways will keep it nice and taught the whole way across. After that, you might find that the ends are too loose and need pulled tighter, you can rip off the cardboard and there’s space to get a flat head in without damaging the fabric.
For the corners, stop a few inches from the corner. This is where cutting off the extra really helps, all that excess makes it harder to keep it looking nice. What you want to do is cut off the corner at a 45, leaving the sides longer. This is one of those spots where you need to fudge things, the less excess you have the easier it is to hide the extra in the back. Cutting off the extra also keeps bulky fabrics from getting too thick. If you think of something like leather, it’s about 1/32 to 1/8” thick, having 3-4 layers at the corner can be enough to prevent staples from biting the wood and creates enough bulk to keep the seat of a dinning room chair from sitting flush against the frame (think about posts and apron pieces).
With the trimmed corners, fold up the long side. You can tack it on the back and on the short side to keep things nice and smooth. The staple on the short side will get covered when you fold up that side. With that side done, you can take your time folding up the last edge until you get it looking nice. Don’t worry about anything more than 1” past the corner, you can cut that off and ignore it (that’s where you’re fudging it, only the actual corner needs to look good).
Great info, thank you! I'll definitely keep this in mind for next time.
Mr. Rogers used to say to look for the helpers. Found one :)
This is such solid advice, the only thing I'd add to it is that you can steam as you go, this will help the fabric stretch and sit crease free.
I built some with rockwool insulation in a wooden frame, then I got burlap coffee bags from a local roaster and stapled them over it. They looked fantastic and worked a treat.
The thing with sounds is the"frequency" wave length absorptions of the material used.. So the thickness and material density has a great absorption. High pitch is easily absorb, because of small wave length. The lower frequency like bass are longer wave length, therefore need more material to be absorbed. So rockwool versus sonopan and how thick you go. Both would the best but at different wave length. The ultimate would be using both, and varying the thickness.
Nope. Its like saying, on a trip you sometimes drink allot, sometimes little. So therefore you need to varying the size of waterbottle you bring.
Thick material also absorb the high frequencies. The "ultimate" is thick panels combines with diffusors. Thin panels often do more damage than good.
@@haknys I meant you can go thinner depending on the frequency you want to absorb... but definitely the thicker the better.
@@sebastiendesormeaux1853 Yep, 100% agree! The deeper the material, the better it is at absorbing lower and lower frequencies. Absorption where room boundaries meet (corners especially) is the best way to absorb at lower frequencies.
I've seen this video a hundred times by a hundred different creators. This is by far my favorite because you took the time to research the plausibility of using a different damping material. Good job.
Those panels indeed look very good. However, I would suggest that to make the difference more noticeable in the test recording, you should record from a slight distance to the microphone so it has a chance to mix up with the room sound too. At a closer distance, the primary sound source (your voice) is too strong to be affected much by the room reflections. Cheers
Probably will apply effects later during mixing and mastering.
For the microphone I agree it's no problem. But to do a correct mix, the room acoustics will affect that..
We did this with rock wool and about 180 panels. Stripping down wood from our old pews to use as frames for my church sanctuary. It took a long time. We used thicker material and took two people per panel to stretch fabric as we stapled it and got it down pretty well.
I have various canvas prints on my wall - if the frames are 1" thick, presumably I can just put this Sonopan straight into the back of the frames and get some acoustic dampening from those, which seems great
That's an interesting idea, though I worry that the canvas wouldn't be transparent to sound. Probably depends on the type of canvas used, but hey it's worth a shot!
Thank you for including your mistakes, It makes the videos more realistic and relatable.
My pleasure! Its all part of the process and an important part of how things get done.
old school tip: start stretching from the middle, outward to the corners -- while pulling fabric flat/wrinkless. don't pull too tight, dependings on fabric.
Appreciate the tip Scott!
I'm not handy so I love watching your videos. This time I watched with my 8 year old son, who also enjoyed it! Keep them coming!!
That makes me really happy to read! Thank you for the feedback :)
Sound better! Nice. Thanks for sharing the build!
Curtains make a huge difference as the windows will be causing a lot of reflections. Some sound blankets (from B and H) up on the ceiling make a huge difference in my home project studio, too and they never appear in the background.
Although the panels reduce reverb, there is still significant reverb. It's largely because you are only covering a relatively small portion of the wall surface.
… A fraction of the total room reflective area, walls but also floor and ceiling
nope, you can only cover 10-50 percent of a wall before benefits to the impact on sound starts start rolling off
Love the video thank you! Just an FYI if you have thicker panel’s then they will capture more low end frequencies. You would also prefer to float them off the wall about an inch so sound can get behind the panels and be captured as well.
ZAC is proof that communication is 90% of success.
On my phone, the difference in audio was very minimal. But I definitely agree that the wide open windows are an issue, too.
Fabric can definitely have a huge impact on reflected acoustics. There's a reason speaker grill cloths look the way they do.
This is not very true. Grill cloths mostly never affect the sound coming of the speakers since the thickness is so thin that it is not an obstacle for most frequencies. It could maybe only disturb the very high frequencies (but then you’d need some thick cloth).
The key is that the sound hits the dense sound absorption. If the fabric isn’t breathable then yes it would but if it’s breathable, then no.
@@NewHopeAudio If you ever visit an old movie theater, or most stage theaters, you will find that they have great big deep 10-15" rockwool or foam absorbing panels wrapped in huge heaps of thick dense velvety cloth. It has fallen out of style, but mostly because of the look rather than the effectiveness. Free moving mass is the key to great sound absorbtion, nice thick padded blankets are actually the perfect topper for sound panels. They don't need to 'breathe' because you are not passing air 'through' the panels at all. What you want to do is absorb reflections of vibrations in the air, and those vibrations move in waves. Literally a thick padded blanket hanging on a rod would probably do more good than these panels... but it would look like a granny youtuber space which is probably not what he is going for?
The idea of wanting thin and light breathable material on your sound panels is actually the wrong move, especially with a sturdy wooden frame. You want to pad that thing out as much as possible with heavy material. Big loose sheets and layers of jean, denim, or other such materials may look a little odd, but would help more than the board he is using.
Magnets !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh heck Zac, that's THE answer to cover my metal door. The noise in and out of door gaps are the worst. Now I can cover the gaps easily and simply release the magnets if I need the door. Brilliant.
They're truly magic! Great for covering any metal surface. Thanks for watching Thomas
Nice concept. I did something similar for my home studio a few years ago. I used 2x4 ceiling tiles for my acoustic dampening material. Framed them with 1x2 pine, so there would be an empty space behind the ceiling tile material. Much of the sound is absorbed by the ceiling tiles at first contact. Any sound that gets through the ceiling tile (transmission) hits the wall, and has to go back through the tile again to affect the room acoustics. Covered each panel with felt from the fabric store (alternating between black and dark red panels). Ceiling tile is not quite as efficient as Rockwool or other materials (I started with Rockwool but the project would have been very pricey). However, my budget solution still made a big difference in my studio, and the cost was very reasonable. The stiffness of the ceiling tiles made them much easier to work with compared to rockwool. I made 10 total panels, used primarily on 2 opposite walls. Thought about making some panels for the corners of the room, too. I have wood-laminate flooring, so another huge help was laying a large area rug on the floor.
well done Sir. and thank you! for ironing those panels. really helps the OCD not seeing creases everywhere
Haha ya it made a big difference in making them look nice and uniform
here in germany we can buy rockwool in plenty different thicknesses, 4cm to 10cm in 1cm increments. that's 1.6 inches up to 4 inches in 0.4 inch increments in imperial units.
but wood fiber acoustic panels are absolutely a thing even in recording studios. they are generally speaking more efficient in absorbing bass frequencies though. towards the highs they are less absorbant and more reflective, atleast compared to rockwool.
This is true of plain fiberboard, which we manufacture also. SONOpan is less dense than normal board and has over 17,000 impressions to create differing densities within the panels to absorb a wide range of sound frequencies. Right now though they're only available in Canada, US and Japan. Stay tuned though, we have big plans :)
The new panels definitely look better. When it comes to acoustic treatment. Different thicknesses of the panels and a variation of material affect the different represented frequencies which cause the reverb. And the placement of the panels is just as important especially when we live in square or rectangular rooms.
I'm going for a minimal, all-white '2001: A Space Odyssey' look for my studio and it's hard finding white acoustic foam (that doesn't yellow). I think I'll follow this tutorial to make my own panels. Thank you
you could just spray pain the panels/acoustic material white after assy
I would definitely be interested in the comparison to rockwool, I'm planning a studio right now and would love to know what performs better. There's not a lot of info about it online - I could only find one sparse reddit thread on the subject. There's one single comment suggesting that because sonopan is designed for soundproofing (stopping sound transmission between rooms), it may not be as optimized for sound absorption (because the sound reflecting back is not the primary concern, but rather just whether it can pass through.) Sonopan left a comment saying it's effective for acoustic treatment but does not offer NRC data for comparison to insulation like rockwool (and of course they would say that.) Rockwool safe n sound is the most popular option, but their comfortboard 80 may be better because it's more dense and absorbs more of the problematic low frequencies. A comparison to either of those would be really helpful since no such comparison seems to exist at the moment. Opinions on acoustic treatment seem to vary incredibly widely even among experts, so deciding what to buy is difficult as an amateur. Being able to listen to the difference 1:1 would be a big help.
My final project in university was noise transmission, and I've done several successful noise transmission projects since. My projects have mostly been related to transmission of noise, rather than sound reflecting in a space. For transmission from one room to another, you want to prevent the drywall from passing vibrations to the studs, because the studs will pass the vibrations to the next room's drywall. Sonopan does this. You also want to stop sound that is vibrating the first layer of drywall from passing through the wall's cavity and causing the drywall on the next wall from vibrating. Insulation, like Rockwool, is effective for this.
To prevent sound from reflecting/echoing within a room, consider the wall to be a non-moving surface. If you think of the sound as a sine wave, it has the greatest amplitude at 1/4 of its wavelength away from a node-- the non-moving wall is a node. So the sound-absorbing material will be most effective when it is about 1/4 of the wavelength away from the wall. This is why acoustic panels are often quite thick.
Male speech is mostly over 250 Hz (female is mostly over 500 Hz). The corresponding wavelength for men is a little over 5 feet (female 2 feet), so you would want the panels to be over a foot thick (one quarter of the wavelength) to be the most effective at male speech (or 6-8 inches for female). That's not to say that thin panels won't help-- they will help quite a bit, but they're not optimal. Think of how much of a difference having carpet installed in an echoey room makes-- it makes a huge difference in a room. This is partly because carpets cover a huge surface area, so they work well to reduce reflections, even though they're not thick.
I guess I would say: thin panels are a lot better than nothing. But thick panels are even better. Or you could even do something creative, like hanging thin panels a few inches off the wall, so that they are in the location of the sound wave's peak amplitude (even if the panel isn't the full thickness).
Also, as you noted, the density of the sound-absorbing material matters as well. Generally, heavier materials are more effective. Solid materials like cement board are great at stopping transmission, but terrible for reflection-- soft open-celled materials are effective.
Anyway, think of the frequency range that of the echoes that you want to damp out the most, and you can tailor your panels to suit the application.
Sonopan is not designed as a sound absorber neither does it have any given sound absorption coefficients, it looks semi porous, good sound absorbers are usually made from a dens fiber making lots of sound and air go tru but still having it pretty dens to make a lot of sound change into heat. i think as its made as a sound insulator and not a absorber the fibers in sonopan is glued pretty much together like OSB and not a lot of air going through it, therefore reducing sound absorption. therefor my advice is to use rockwool based absorber.
You can look up the absorption coefficients for this product and compare it to rock wool. but spoiler rockwool will do better at absorbing lower frequencies based on thickness.
@@thestomach SONOpan has over 17,000 impressions of varying sizes on each side of the panel. This is what allows it to absorb a wide range of frequencies. YES, we make the panels for soundproofing which is to stop noise travelling into or out of a room but they have been proven to absorb sound well. Don't believe us? That's ok, the folks who are using SONOpan on their walls to control acoustics do and they're very happy with the results. Is there a better option? Of course, there are products specifically made for this purpose, but they're more expensive and you can't customize the look of them.
@@sonopan_msl “don’t believe us? That’s ok…” I think people are looking for data. Additionally, density matters and these are super thin panels.
I'd recommend the Bessey Corner clamps, each side have their own little clamp so you can prefit your test piece and keep one side clamped so you can get a tighter fit between the seams
Nice! I'll check those out, thanks for the tip
Thats got to be one the coolest staplers I've ever seen
Looks Good! some full wall height heavy curtains over the windows will also make a big impact
Great video. I've been having to record at home for nearly two years and my main room for recording can always do with more panels to absorb reverb.
When you attach a fabric to a frame, *start from the middle* of the length, a couple stapples, then do *the opposide side,* also couple stapples, after you've _stretched the textile_ a bit.
Then do the two other sides thes same way.
Then, stapple some more spots, each time going from center to corners and stretching the fabric a little bit.
Stapple the corners in the end.
YES! Rockwool vs. Sonopan
Great Effect 👍
I did some "Bass Traps" out of cheap foam mattresses and made the frames out of drywall frames. Reason for these frames is that I needed to shape the absorbers triangular to fit floor to ceiling in my funny shaped "under the roof" listening room 🦇 and I didn't have woodworking tools.
Keep on spreading ideas in your very pleasant style and thank You 💚
Instant sub! My entire entertainment room is done in nautical and the whole reason I've had the panels for 9 months and never installed them, is I don't want to ugly-up my Atlantis vibe. I understand that if you have a couple inches of air between the doubled panels, they're more effective, but that would defeat your goal of the low-profile anesthetics.
Great idea! I'm always on the lookout for new sound absorption materials. I'm going to give this one a try!
Those huge mirror sliding doors will make quite a difference if treated
Try to do sound acoustic with the same basic frame but inside put 5/8 layers of towels... I saw this experiment on some YT channel i dont remember but the sound was so stupid good that i was blown away! Even better than professional acoustic panels . The sound was perfect , no reverb and a perfect straight line from lows's to high Freq. !
There may be an added benefit by spacing the panels about 1" from the wall. The space would act as a trap and the exposed surface area of the back side may add a tiny bit more. This is usually done on ceiling panels.
LOL, "a little fussing and a lot of swearing...", I can relate. I found a replacement for an overused expletive, "fork".
I'll have to remember that next time I'm in a rage 😂
Hey! We seamstress gals LOVE to see guys buying stuff in fabric stores! I always wonder about what their project is and how close they’ll come to actually replicating their ideas. This would reflect on newbies and DYI-ers…….I would never question the outcome of a professional upholsterer - I don’t think!! Glad this turned out - it might be the solution for our echo-y family room.
I have made 4 panels of 1.2 x 2.5 meter with 80mm rock wool, standing from floor to ceiling dividing the living room in 2 separate rooms but are only friction fit with foam and is easy to move. I plan to move 1 or 2 panels to the wall making a passage and join the two rooms during the summer. The difference is a lot bigger than your smaller panels, it's almost completely dead. Just some window and ceiling reflections remain but these are caught quicly and don't bounce around in the room anymore. I also saved 1000 euro's of the energy bill per year, so the cost was recovered two fold in just one year. The rockwool isn't so bad, just unroll in the frame, fix with some screws, cover with canvas, very little dust while building and no dust when covered. And no saw required to cut panels, just a sharp knife, drill, hand saw and a stack of 90mm wide boards. I've placed 3.6mm plywood boards as backing to make it airtight.
At least you know they're acoustic panels.
I don't mind the industrial look. Makes me feel like I'm in a studio.
I know full well the 'um, actually' of this comment, but in case anyone is interested... the phrase, "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog", contains every letter of the alphabet. But if you say "jumped" instead of "jumps", it loses the 'S', and is then just a very weird sentence. (insert Homer nerd yell)
Loved this video, thank you for making it!
This is cool. I love building my own things vs. buying them. It saves money and custom is almost always better.
I think the size of the room plays a big factor with sound deadening. (think of the referee in a football stadium echo!)
If you covered the walls and ceiling with these panels in a small closet, the sound would be perfect.
You still have lots of area that will bounce the sound around. Many people overlook the floor and ceiling. Have you ever talked inside an empty room with hardwood flooring? 6 faces of echo!
If I am not mistaken, isn't there mathmatical equations of how many panels are needed in a room depending on size?
I've heard putting panels on a 45degree angle on wall corners top to bottom really helps.
I'm sure someone already said this so throw this comment away if not needed 😊 but float those panels off the wall a bit. Air is the best dampener. Think about the angles of sound absorption like light bouncing off a mirror. Put panels up in the spots the "light source" (your mic) would bounce light back toward itself.. Also, treat your ceiling the same way. With the ceiling, however, you might want to angle the panels towards your mic set-up. I'm guessing you have hardwood floors so I would also put a nice big rug down (something with some plush or cushion) and maybe some stuff in the corners of the room. Bookshelves full of books work great if you're not trying to build bass traps 😁
All those "not a pro" suggestions aside. Awesome video. Definitely gives me ideas for my studio 😎👍
I wish I could source sonopan locally, but can't so I went with dense recycled foam. Tip... I ordered a few extra sound absorbing curtains when I did my windows so that I could use that fabric to cover the panels. They match/blend in with the window treatment and with their extra felt linings, it provided a bit extra sound absorption. Put the felt on first wrapping front and rear, then use the top layer of the curtain to finish the panels off. Make sure to mount the panels an inch or two off the walls if possible... improves performance.
I luck out... my main diffusion "panel" is a large 8x9' rubble stone fireplace directly opposite to my AV setup. Works perfectly to breakup the sound and I only needed a few acoustic panels opposite the sliding doors to the patio I put the curtains on (both to the sides of the AV setup).
i'm glad this was in my recommendations, you're so cute! and this was an interesting build
The timing of this video is perfect, I was just thinking about getting some acoustig panels
Nice! Might be fun to make your own :)
@@ZacBuilds Oh definitely gonna make some now, thanks!
Really need this stuff in the US
Great video! I've got a bunch of sonopan I want to use to make a sound dampening box for my compressor at the shop!
Thanks bro, It will 100% work for that application. I once saw a boom box sealed in Sonopan that was completely muffled at max volume. A compressor should be a walk in the park in comparison
Please do a Rockwoll comparision! Im about to start my project and I have no idea where to get the mats you've gotten. Rockwoll however, that I'll find! Thaanks bud
One more thing I highly suggest is putting foam in the 90° corners of the room. That should help significantly.
I just lost it over your shop! So dope
You would also benefit from bass traps where any two or three flat surfaces (two walls > ceiling or floor) meet. They absorb rogue low frequencies where they gather up in corners. I see you have an RPG diffusor, which is great. You can also use bookshelves at empty wall spots filled with books on the shelves at random depths, to form a non-uniform face of spines on each shelf. Parallel surfaces are the enemy, so if you can slightly pitch your ceiling or use an acoustic ceiling cloud, it helps a lot.
Recording voice over comparison sounded the same but when you did the 360, when camera is facing the windows, the quality of sound is so much worse. Panels help but legit, the windows are the main problem, with or without the wall panels. Blinds will probably fix the issue.
Curtains would be a huge help for the sound defusion for sure!
The point of Rockwool is mass absorption, and it works AMAZING when you install it right. Inside walls it is mostly going to kill midrange and bass noises, and won't be as effective for higher frequencies, but that isn't what they are made for, and those are going to leak through the 2x4s rather than the rockwool.
The green board sits between drywall and 2x4s, which allows for sound isolation more than absorption. Hang some heavy drywall on one side, and use isolating screws, and rockwool between the studs, and you have true sound-proofing for a room.
When hanging sound treatments ON the wall instead of behind, you actually want loose dense material that covers a broad even spectrum of sound. Rockwool is truly the best application for this kind of stuff as it will absorb most frequencies pretty evenly. I'm sure this also works pretty well too, but I would bet that rockwool would work better, and cover more frequencies more evenly.
Lastly, don't forget the floor and ceiling. You have a big fat bass-trap (couch) sitting directly behind you, which is probably your best audio treatment. But adding a short carpet, and having a couple diffusers or absorption panels to the ceiling will probably make a larger overall difference in the room than your panels.
Neat project though! And they do look nice and seem to help at least a bit! I'll have to look up that material for my upcoming project. I'm in a 1950s style basement space, and it makes for a very live room with lots of concrete, cinderblock and aged hardwood... it's live down here lol. But I also hate working with rockwool, but keep using it because it is like magic for my house! Every time a wall is opened up, some rockwool goes in, and it makes a small house feel so much larger! Just that audio distance of not hearing every word that everyone says at all times from anywhere really makes a difference! Anywho, if the price on those panels isn't too bad, I might have to try backing a rockwool panel with them. The fabric will keep it in the front, and the paneling can hold in the bakc, and add a little extra depth and rear transparency so it can more effectively be used to 'double absob' audio without needing a literal air-gap behind the panel.
But seriously, people don't give enough thought to their audio environment. Having a nice quiet 'dead' sound space... you can just feel the tension melt when it is done right. It is so nice, even if most people don't have any idea why.
You had me at "I'm just ironing my sound panels" LOL!😂😂😂
I was caught myself doing it and just thought "this is so weird..." 😂😂
I really enjoy all your vides. It makes me sad that you don't have more followers and views. The quality of your content deserves so much more.
"It's really hard to find straight 2x2's" -The most relatable phrase of 2022
I bet cutting sono pan at a 45° angle and mounting in the panels would help a bit, but then they may not hold in as well as yours did. Awesome build and good way to show everyone that it can be easier to do than most people think, if you have some tools or at least access to them. I would love to give this a shot, as I like the lower profile compared to rock wool. Keep up the amazing content
Pro tip, get a helper to hold a mirror up against the side walls. Sit where you will speak. Move the mirror panels across the wall until you can see the mic in the mirror reflection. This is your primary reflection point and most effective place to put your sound deadening. If using a cardoid, directly in front and behind the mic also.
I subscribed because of the “Kobe!” And also because you do a lot of amazing builds.
Haha thanks Andrew! Happy to have you onboard :)
You could also paint the frames to help them blend in.
This is a very nice alternative to those who dont want the fire prone polyurethane foam, the expensive melamine foam, or the idea of having fibreglass or rockwool with only a cloth barrier in their room.
If I were using those foam acoustic panels, I would pair them with decorative ceiling tiles, or what ever is handy, painted black, with occasional lighting and bits of chrome, and go for a Death Star corridor look.
Nice vid. Just the 1 thing I think nobody caught in that full alphabet sentence is 'jumps' instead of 'jumped'...would also be able to test the ssssss sound which is similar to the harsher zzzzzzz sound.
Still a good video. Going to try this new material out myself.
The Best Sound Studios used the reverb/echo in the room to there advantage, The panels work. I will admit the voice samples are much clearer with the acoustic panels on the wall.
This just made me think of Tech Ingredients "world's greatest speakers" video and I think you should make a pair
I can hear the difference better through your lav mic than I can with your boom mic on your PC.
floor, roof and DEFINETLY windows do make the room still echoey, hence why alot of music studio's use a special type of plexiglass in front of the window (with a big gap between). So the reflection gets trapped, and doesn't go back inside. Get a Rug, and sum skypanels, maybe make a star sky panel? With led strips, or led string and some holes in the fabric? Might be best to use the same fabric you used in this video tho, since you can layer it two times; one time, led stripo/strings, then second time, poke holes in the front layer.
Just an idea, might be cool to see!
I should definitely do somethings similar for the studio.
Not keen on rock wool either. So use medium density, fireproof, furniture foam. Works great and can be found in any desired thickness. It does cost more, but in some long lost comparison tests, worked better too. Used to build industrial silencers and fit out control rooms with it.
Great idea Philip! Where do you get that stuff from generally?
I would like to know this as well!
Not gonna lie- the bare room had a slightly brighter EQ that I kind of liked. That said, as a musician, this stuff is a major quality of life booster for anyone doing a lot of practicing or teaching.
The Tech Ingredients channel did a somewhat scientific test of various sound absorption/dampening solutions a couple years ago, and found a surprising result with a cheap alternative: layered terry towels.
I cut this stuff with a razor knife and a drywall square, takes a couple passes but it you cut into the front flip it over and line your drywall square up with the cut and score the back it snaps off nice and clean js
curtains and carped did the most for my space
If you leave a small air gab between the 2 panels you will get better result
Interesting! I'll have to test that out
Yeah, there are a lot of videos on the proper way to do this.
Nice option for sound panels. I haven’t seen that material before. For sure those blinds will help.
Thanks Dave, and ya blinds are definitely down during normal recording for optimal performance 😀
Thank you for your time and sharing
good job
One way to make those panels even more special is you can get some custom printed fabric (printful is one company that does this, but there are many) and you can cover them in that fabric with any pattern you want to use.
You can hear more of a natural reverb tail as the word "Fox" decays. It's not a huge difference but the treated room clips do sound more focused and professional.
Yeah, yeah! Need good looking acoustic panels! 😍
the quick brown fox was way less discernable but the other two tests were way better
Looks great and works well!
Zac, I think you may have forgotten to place treatment above the mic (recording/listening area)...clouds. I'm not sure if your ceiling is flat or angled, but have clouds set up may cut down on the slap-back echo and might improve your recording space even more. Just my two cents.
Clouds are the key to it all.
Beautiful build. I like the sleek look. Add one more panel above your recording PC. I did this on my setup and it helped a lot with reverb and echo, when I play at night times and could here myself talk. Also I will try to find that material here in Germany and build one for myself.
Thanks! And that's a good idea about having one above, I'll have to see if that's feasible some how. I'm slowly starting to wonder if Sonopan might be a Canada only product, so let me know if you have any luck finding it locally
yeah like data says that super dense glass wool is gonna have a better alpha than any foam. But like the foam is obvs easier to work with because it’s less likely to bulge against your fabric. just always make sure to use an “open weave” fabric because if it’s like a super tightly woven fabric it might be a bit more reflective. These kinda panels only work for higher frequencies but if you wanna absorb a little bass then put a chonky upholstered couch in your studio.
If it’s more your look you can try hanging some heavy velour curtains in the space (lotsa gather)
oh and for any rectangular room where you have two treated walls and two reflective walls you must put the absorbent walls perpendicular to each other (so you dont have parallel reflective surfaces). this is to avoid a flutter echo zing.
the cheapest thing to always do is to use acoustic ceiling tiles and a carpet to get the total reverberation down. Like a class C or glass A grid ceiling tile
1. Sound insulation and killing reflections (which is what absorbers are used for) are two completely different things. So, your argument that Sonopan is better for insulation than rockwool, therefore it must be better for absorbers is wonky, at best.
2. You should allow for a bit of air behind your absorbers. Either leave a bit of space between them and the wall or make the frame deeper, so it forces that space. That really improves absorption in the lower frequency range a lot. There are pretty neat online absorber calculators that can help you find your preferred balance between absorber material, thickness and covered frequency range.
3. It doesn't matter all that much how thin your cover material is. We're talking about sound waves you want to absorb anyway. Either thicker cloth already absorbs that frequency spectrum (in which case it's "less work your absorber") or it passes through to your absorber, which is what you made that thing for. The one thing you don't want is a cover material that would reflect high frequencies... but other than that, it really shouldn't matter.
Since I might have been interested in Sonopan for another project, though: It seems that Sonopan doesn't have any retailers in Europe.
Location and placement is much more important than just randomly placing them to be segmetric or visually pleasing.
This is good for the highest frequencies and reflections, but like others have said, for a more even frequency response space from wall and I’d even double up those pads. With sound waves, distance matters. Only the shortest waves will be affected up against the wall
I have 80mm Rockwool Sonorock in all my walls (2x4's, 12mm OSB + 9mm plasterboard) and 120mm Sonorock in all my ceilings. I do not hear a sound from other rooms, except for contact noises. So mineral wool definately works for me in that application.