The one thing I love about the Book of the New Sun is that Wolfe is on your side against a mysterious universe. Reading the book feels like life in the full. And it gets better and better in re-readings. It comes to life.
100%. Every time I go back to it like I’m realising more. The podcast Alzabo Soup is worth doing a page turn with, makes you realise how much you missed
What really stands out, and what I really like when I compare your reviews to others on youtube (and its not a diss to others as I enjoy a bunch of them too) is that I leave your reviews thinking 'man I really need to grow my vocabulary'. What's more is that you don't sound like you're being verbose just to be different but rather you're using each word to be very precise with what you want to convey.
The thing about the works of Gene Wolfe is that the reader needs to take his time with him - if you're the type of reader who likes to race through a book so that he can get to the next book, you probably should leave the books of Gene Wolfe alone.. The 4 volume Book of the New Sun series needs to be treated like one novel - not 4 separate novels. I liked it, but I liked his short story collection, The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories, & The Fifth Head of Cerubus, much more. For those who like him, Gene Wolfe was quite productive, with many titles to his credit.
This is what I expected your take of the book to be. It's a shame, I definitely am that intended Wolfe reader, for me this is everything I'm after when it comes to literature, the zero hand-holding, the fever dream atmosphere, the accumulation of symbols, subtext and intertextual connections, the juxtaposition between depraved cynicism and sublime heart, Wolfe has it all in quantity and quality. Either way, I really recommend you give Fifth Head of Cerberus a go now despite what you though of New Sun. It's worth the read both as a great SF book on it's own, but also as a counterpiece to New Sun as well.
If a dark souls game/Elden ring was a book, it would be this. Both in metaphor of the combats zero handholding and difficulty. And literally in its vague story telling or story telling that requires a deeper intentional search to see what's actually going on. It is genuinely my favourite series, I've read it twice now. I'm currently reading the rest of the solar cycle books for the first time. But I haven't read fifth head of Cerberus. Can you explain without spoilers how you feel it's a counterpart to botns? I loved your explanation of the book too btw
And so the 100-book challenge comes to a close! It’s a shame Matt’s ascending from Earth now and won’t be able to make any more videos. It was fun while it lasted. 🫡
Being a veteran also inluenced his writing and I see a lot of that in Severian. The general consensus when finishing the first time is 'what did I just read?' Some then immediately plan on a reread the rest are 'nah, I'm good.' I would be the former, someday. I also found it interesting that he tells you how the series ends about 50 pages in.
I've read this twice and all of Wolfe's stuff. He's probably my favorite author. I first read it years ago and it clicked for me. I don't know why. I kept a list of all the words I did not know and looked them up. I was amazed at how many words I did not know considering the amount of reading I've done and that was what I went to college for long ago. So I was no stranger to words. I did not understand all of it. I still don't and probably never will. I don't understand everything in every book he wrote. I guess that is what makes me like it. The vibe I get from reading him. I have read his short story "Mute" a dozen times and I have no idea what is going on, yet it still intrigues me and does not piss me off. "Peace" is the favorite of his works for me. It is so creepy when you realize what is happening beyond the surface story.
your style of speaking combined with your fluid word choices and phrasing is on par with some of the best books ever written. it's pretty badass. just saying. oh and the background... inspirational! thanks for another awesome honest and real review.
As someone who read BotNS last year and loved it, this is video has been reported. Nah I'm kidding. Gene Wolfe is one of the most "not for everyone" writers that ever lived. I think these books are a masterpiece, but within the first chapter I could easily see why it's so divisive. For me, the prose was absolutely perfect and the atmosphere it created is the strongest I've ever read. I don't understand these books at all pretty much, but man, I _feel_ them. Since reading them, I've been seeking more atmospheric, prose-heavy work and have discovered Lord Dunsany, Fritz Leiber and Clark Ashton Smith and they're all incredible. I honestly enjoy that stuff a lot more than the rigid world building stretched across 8 massive books we see so much today. Gene Wolfe, like Le Guin, to me, represents a development of that old style of fantasy that practically died out once Lord of the Rings started showing its influence.
well stated - i could use a blast of fantasy after all the hard sf i read. my only background in it is everything robt e howard and larry niven’s terrific short story ‘not long before the end.’
You've made a great point that I haven't heard from anyone else that would really effect my reading of the book, Thank You. I can handle a story with an open-ended conclusion, but one that continually poses questions, and promises answers, but never really provides them would drive me to distraction! It would really build the resentment. Something about your response (and, possibly, also the vintage cover to the Urth of the New Sun that you showed as well) really made me consider a new filter with which to read it (which I haven't yet): trying to imagine what it was like to be reading it in its original setting (by that I mean both intended audience as well as time written.) This is just such a great review / reaction piece. I really appreciate it.
I thought the first two thirds of Shadow was some of the most compelling literature I'd ever read. I loved the setting and the situation surrounding Severian's wobble over torturing one of his 'clients'. The prose and revelatory style was brilliant to me and there was an exciting emotional hook at the heart of the story. I couldn't quite believe it... However, once the main character leaves this chapter behind, it became rather harder to contend with...!🙄 I still like dipping into it on Audible every now and then. It feels like revisiting a half-remembered dream.
Excellent review and a very honest expression of your thoughts and feelings about the book. I am a Wolfe fan and intend to read everything written by him - I have read BOTNS as well as Long and Short Sun and am absolutely humbled by the scope and beauty of the solar cycle . If in the future you do decide to give Wolfe another shot - do try Long Sun, I think the first two books are a lot more explicit than most of his other works. If you do finish the Solar cycle I would be very interested to hear your thoughts - though that seems unlikely at this time. Keep the reviews coming and Happy reading !
Absolutely fair review. All that you did not like though I loved among other things. But I loved it on the second read-through where everything just fell into place and I did not feel like Wolfe was teasing me. First read was really taxing and confusing I'll admit. With context it feels like Wolfe is shouting the book's narrative and answers at you but without it, the mystery, references, and the sedate style can become too much. I understand your desire not to read it again but by god if you do try it again some improbable day ahead, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it again.
I want to recommend the podcast ReReading Wolfe for when you choose to reread it. As they say, "there is no such thing as reading a Gene Wolfe book, you can only reread it"
Very interesting! I read Book of the new sun back when I was 16 or so, and was so so fascinated with its otherworldliness, with its escaping any explanation (from what I remember), and many of the images it conjured up still stick with me 30 years later. But I read it at a very impressionable young age when I didn't have much of an idea of what I like or don't like to read in novels. I was very accepting of most of what I read back then. These days? I wonder what I'd think now if I were to re-read it.
I had a similar experience and decided to reread it this year. I understood so much more and it enchanted me so much stronger. It was difficut for me to pick up any other book after that. Suddenly all the stuff I had on "to read shelf" looked so infantile. I also found that authors considered 'great' (also by me) looked like amateurs compared to Wolfe. I am still raving about this book at almost every meeting with friends, testing their patience.
My feelings/thoughts on books rarely align with yours but this time you perfectly articulated the way I felt about these books. By the time I finished Urth I had no desire to ever come back and re-read them or continue with the spin-offs.
I was glad to finally see this video posted, mainly because I thought you would have many of the same feelings about Wolfe’s writing as I do. And you do. I was finally drawn to read BotNS by it’s heavy gothic feel, etc. But I congratulate you on getting through all 5 books. I could not. The 1st book I enjoyed, but I ended up putting the 2nd down for reasons I won’t get into here. Wolfe could write amazing things and not so amazing things. The one truly amazing novel that I never hear anyone talk about is “Peace.” A somewhat straightforward novel, sometimes marketed as “fantasy.” For me, he achieved in this book, what he kept trying to repeat in later books, like BotNS.
I think your analysis is spot on. I managed to get through the first two books (collected in one volume) several years ago, and enjoyed some of it, but could never bring myself to start the second volume. I'm not against literature that makes you work a bit, but when it becomes a tedious slog, with no payout in sight, I tend to think it might be time to move on. But more power to those who enjoy it.
Knew zero about Wolfe and his work when I got the new sun books for Christmas. Was so absorbed in the freaky world I couldn’t put books down for three weeks till I’d finished. Loved not being spoon fed and was entertained by the procession of Odyssey like monsters and villains the lead character came across. I’m Catholic and didn’t notice any deep Catholic feel to the series. Couple of generic biblical references that made sense in the context of Earths history thousands of years in the future, when a muddy memory of the Bible would persist.
I loved it the first time, the open-ended strangeness, and devoured it all - nothing like anything I'd ever read before - and when it ended I wanted more. So I read it all again.
Very well said and I really like the sense of engagement I get from this (as I do from all your videos). For me, the key (but not the only) problem with the book is that all of the Byzantine misdirection and linguistic play is in the service of a boring and shallow conceit: it’s yet *another* SF story about a guy who finds out he’s The One. The narrative and stylistic hijinks don’t actually change or reframe or undercut this conceit - they simply decorate it. Their effect is to make a very familiar type of story (grandiose sci-fi wish-fulfillment) seem more interesting than it truly is.
Appreciate you wrangling with the book. Well put. It is to me both maddening and entrancing. The Book of the Long Sun is better I think. So are The Short Sun books. The puzzles continue as does the genius. I’ll just say, in the rereads, these books display uncanny ability to morph into entirely different books. That’s the heart of his work.
Wolfe's world is cryptic and confusing and so is his writing, so the fact that you're always on the fence about understanding or fully understanding what's going on tends to reinforce this reality that is so different to ours that we'll never fully understand that, either. It's not so much a narrative journey (though of course it is in every sense), but a visit to a world so fascinating and potentially, weirdly plausible that you really don't need a conventional story to propel you through the work. Rather than watching a series of pictures presented in order that makes a movie, it's a series of pictures in semi-random order based on multiple themes, many of which you feel like you can almost but not quite discern. When reading it, you can't allow yourself to get frustrated with the fact that everything doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to. Once you get that it's not because you're not reading carefully enough (or you're not smart enough to understand) and that the confusion and ambiguity and absurdity is an intentional part of the experience, it's easier to just go with it.
This is the first review I’ve seen that hasn’t been filled with unabashed praise, and I appreciate that. It’s on my list, probably next. I’ll keep an open mind but take stock after book 1. Thanks
I appreciate the honesty even when so many people were expecting you to fall in love with this book. Dying Earth didn't jive with me and I know what you mean about overly performative writing so I'll be skipping this one. Thanks 👍
My impression is its better as a vibe book then a puzzle book. As a puzzle book its way to hard and slow, as a experience book were your not supposed to know whats happening or figure anything out its enjoyable.
The "I am sick of puzzles" only really hit me once he got to the observation tower in Citadel of the Autarch. I could not for the life of me figure out why Severian was attempting to kidnap the observer, why Severian was witnessing different phases of the earth, and the bombing of the Pellerine camp: I just didn't understand why I had to know any of this stuff at that particular point in the story. By Citadel I'm more or less aware that Urth is Earth, and we're very far flung into the future, so why am I being shown all of this stuff for nearly 60 pages only for it to be immediately discarded after Severian leaves? With Citadel, I feel like it was time to pump the brakes on the mystification and to begin dispelling illusions. Wolfe does do that, but only after introducing half a dozen more mysteries right before. This is for sure my favorite speculative fiction series of all time, but it's hard to disagree that the series can become mentally taxing for no good reason.
I appreciate a good allegorical mystery throughout, but as you said, it can get exhaustive. For me, I personally like a few safety nets with it though so the text doesn't feel like work.
I’m always directed to these books because Jack Vance is one of my favorite authors. I’ve tried them several times but I dislike the unreliable narrator type of fiction so much I never proceed past the first few chapters. Beautiful prose, though.
You are missing out, ...on so much 😂 He is not that unreliable, few scattered instances in the book & Wolfe always gives you a clue so you can figure everything for yourself. He is not some " choose your own meaning " author... Of course, three or four readings minimum to appreciate Wolfe's books, but it's worth it...
Your experience was almost identical to mine. I read this a couple months ago. Since then I've read some of Wolfe's short stories (in the collection 'The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories') and I feel like I "get" Wolfe a lot more now, so I will re-read BOTNS at some point. I would actually suggest readers unfamiliar with him start with something like Alien Stones or The Death of Doctor Island first to get a feel for what to expect, and maybe more importantly what NOT to expect. You really have to trust him to make it through BOTNS without going crazy and he doesn't actually earn that trust in BOTNS, he just takes it for granted.
You should read Alien Stones since you love Blindsight so much. A lot of the themes and ideas in Blindsight I think were borrowed straight from that story. Wolfe was definitely a visionary when it comes to scifi. That story has a lot of ideas you see pop up in tons of scifi since.
I haven't read this yet but this review reminds me of a lot of reviews I've seen done on Malazan and I loved that. So, I think I will move it up on my list.
This video is why i just putchased the first book. I love the dark souls games and I adore the mystery about them. So if this can evoke that same mystery thats great. Like having some pieces of the puzzle but maybe having to fill in some gaps. Thats great Looking forward to it
I felt pretty much the exact same way. By the end I just did not give a shit. You need more little payoffs along the way to keep the reader giving you of the benefit of the doubt and keeping interest high so that you can buy into the big philosophical message at the end.
Have you read the Gormenghast books? I feel like it's the greatest work of world building written, with fantastic characters on top. I often think that Gormenghast works well for people who have similar views on Wolfe as yours.
Excellent. I'm counting on you doing a further 100 book challenge. Maybe mix it up a little, with a bit of SF, lit-fic, horror, crime, good obscure books that everyone should read... Just a thought. Anyway, I have hugely enjoyed this series and tracked down a lotta books as a result!
One of the best reviews I have come across. This is a VERY demanding work. All the internal and external references as well as word plays polarize readers in my experience. To me it is an absolute masterpiece while for others so many demands on the reader for what is ultimately a morality play is just too much to ask.
I think you're really missing some of the complexity of Severian's role as a narrator. He's not just unreliable to us, our awareness of his reliability is altered throughout the narrative, and not often in time for us to appreciate it! There's also many factors that affect this, like Thecla being carried along with him. Even the first chapters drop jewels and hints that would never be understood except in hindsight or a second reading.
Exceptional review. Thanks. I'm one of diehards but I completely understand that Wolfe's style could so exasperate otherwise engaged and attentive readers.
Sorry you didn't love the books-they are a bit long to read if you aren't enjoying yourself. I enjoyed them, but I didn't feel any desperate need to work everything out. I just loved the richness of the world he slowly builds up and sense of deep time. I also enjoyed Severian who starts out for me as a sort of horror figure and grows gradually more sympathetic. I just loved the wooden intergalatic space ship with sails in Urth of the New Sun that seems to be Yggdrasil. That was just so cool.
Definitely a great series, but not the easiest read. I remember starting a list of unfamiliar words and once I hit about 50 while maybe a third of the way through Shadow of the Torturer (can't remember exactly, it has been a couple decades), I gave up. Then I realized the words were either archaic or made-up. Anyhow, the coda book Urth was may favorite of the lot. FYI, the UK mass markets from Arrow in the early 80s are just gorgeous, with wrap-around Bruce Pennington art.
Omg I literally just finished reading The Urth of the New Sun a little while ago. :D Probably didn't understand a lot of it, but it was a helluva ride. Definitely some of the most literary sci-fi I've ever read.
A near the end of career book by Wolfe which I enjoyed was Home Fires which had Wolfe stepping into Joe Haldeman territory with a future military adventure and the problem of time dilation on relationships.
Good, honest review, it does remind me of my thoughts after the first time I read BOTNS. However, the Vance-like atmosphere really left an impression on me and despite the exhaustive puzzles and intricacies which really detracted from the enjoyment of the book, I returned for a second reading after about 10 years. Second time around really made a difference. Not only does it add clarity but the enjoyment factor is enhanced once you start putting the puzzles together. I am a Wolfe devotee now and consider this the greatest sci-fi book ever written. Wolfe’s catholicism was a challenge, I am an atheist with strong feelings against being raised catholic but I still think Wolfe deserves the accolades he gets. Most books are not worth rereading, there are so many great books out there and so little time. This one really pays in dividends.
Very good review. Very thoughtful. I read the books in highschool, I liked/intrigued the books, definitely did not love them but I felt the reading had much to offer and my Jack Vance high carried over a little to Wolf's Sun. The writing style does draw you in slightly butt repels with it's difficulty. I wish I could say I loved them but that would be a lie!
I think the audiobook helps a lot. The performance is so great and it really guides you in how it’s supposed to be read and the time with which it should be read. I think if I had only read it and not been listening to the audiobook I probably wouldn’t have liked it as much
Fascinating review. I sense your respect but not empathy. It resonated with me, though not to perfection. After for years hearing about it, my reaction was not that there were not enough answers, but for me it stuck the landing TOO well crafted. Delaney and Zelazny and Vance himself answer the questions I think more mysteriously and abstractly. I think this series is literally the best of the bunch, but other SF masterfully written was to me more mysterious.
I agree with your review completely... I read the first of the two volumes and was both exchanted and exhausted by Wolfe's labyrinthian exposition. I've yet to generate the energy to tackle the remaining volume... not sure I will... I did, based on your review, greatly enjoy Aldiss's Hothouse! Interested in your thoughts on Edgar Rice Burroughs at some time in the future... the 1st three John Carter novels are great pulp fun and the combined pair of Tanar of Pellucidar and Tarzan at the Earth's Core quite entertaining...
I love The Book of the New Sun (and the other 'Sun Cycle" books, especially The Book of the Short Sun) but I can definitely understand why others don't. Severian claims to have a perfect memory, but he's also something of a unreliable narrator (which is typical with Wolfe.) He describes things the reader would easily recognize otherwise in ways that a person today would not, obscuring what would otherwise be clear. He asks questions that are never directly answered but only implied, often from parts of the text earlier than the question. It rewards re-reading, but it isn't for everyone.
Read this when I got covid and absorbed the whole thing through a haze of fever dreams. I would wake up, drink some ginger ale, read in bed for a few hours, then fall asleep and dream of Urth for 20 hours.... Repeat for a week. That's how I recommend everyone encounter BOTNS. I don't think I'll be revisiting it as a healthy person.
This is a very well spoken and thoughtful review. He’s 100% correct. And definitely the book CANNOT be understood on a single reading. After 2 or 3 readings it unlocks.
I did read the BOTNS cycle when it was first published. I was suitably impressed. However BOTNS doesn't hold a candle to Wolfe's extensive collection of short fiction. Wolfe disciplined himself to sharpen his focus - due to length limitations. In a way I kind of regret the attention New Sun gets as it detracts from his rep as a short story master. At any rate, I recommend Storeys From the Old Hotel, or any of his collections.
the only book i read from him was Castleview and it was ok. not sure if that was a good starting point to reading him as his writing style is very strange compared to others iv read and maybe im just not used to it. but id like to try out something like this
Ahh interesting.. If I had to, I would humbly guess you'd like it more :) from the little i know of your taste I love the sense of being out of my depth, when reading Wolfe.. the nebulous connections.. the labyrinthine structures; feels to me like a great symphony does, with motives reprising and morphing and connecting.. I too don't much care for his views and sensibilities. So I don't read him in the same way I read Le Guin for example.. The lack of closure can be offputing indeed. Last book I read of his, is Peace.. and I adored it.. and felt frustrated at the same time, by the end of it.. It's one of the reasons I love Urth, this sense of closure... with some narrative clarification, i found it more of a reward, emotionally. Feeling that the Severian at the end of Urth, would not do almost any of the f'd up things he did throughout BOTNS.. shone a redemptive light, retrospectively, on the whole work for me. PS: I got back to reading after months, and with Roadside Picnic, inspired by your latest Top 15. Amazing book. Started Solaris as well, and might be following the list backward ^.^
I agree with much of this on the seeming "overwrittenness" of a bunch of it. Sort of unnecessary complexity. But man those books are so weird and intriguing. I still think about the world and worldbuilding aspects of BotNS, 15 years after reading it.
it's been forever since I read these. My, very vague, recollection of them is that I didn't care for them that much....sounds like I might need to give it another shot!
This is entirely unrelated to this video, but I was just wondering if you've read any more Kim Stanley Robinson since you finished Red Mars? I'd be super interested to hear your take on the remainder of the Mars Trilogy, and also some of his other works. :)
I DNF'd Claw on like the second page when I realized it was not picking up directly after the cliffhanger of the first book. You might like his short fiction such as the cycle of stories that begins with "The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories" or the main novella from Fifth Head of Cerberus. The style is usually a bit less enigmatic and obviously the issue with delayed resolution is minimal.
I'm 90 seconds in, and I think he's made a perfect argument as to why all readers should experience this book. (Now I'll be watching the rest of the video lol)
If you'd like something similar, but a bit easier to parse and pull apart I'd recommend Terra Ignota by Ada Palmer (who wrote the most recent foreword for Book of the New Sun). Rather than Dying Earth, it's set in a "mid-future" in which spaceflight is beginning to happen, there's a lunar city and terraforming has begun on Mars and people use flying cars that can travel the world in a couple of hours. Like BotNS, it is being narrated as a script that is written as a history for other future peoples, but Myles Canner is a significantly more stylish and less subtle writer, though admits that he is biased in the way he describes people. It follows his attempts to help several world leaders navigate an unusual break-in, while at the same time is trying to hide and raise a possible God-child. I think I've said/spoiled enough to tease without ruining anything major. There are a few more ways in which it is more similar to BotNS and a few which differ even more, but Palmer herself has noted it as a favourite of hers and a clear influence, though not the biggest (that would be Voltaire).
I'm too much of a Neanderthal to read something like this (for instance, I've enjoyed a Dan Brown book, as well as the one Scalzi I've tried); heck, David Morrell's 'First Blood' is up there with a couple of Hornblower books, and all of George G. Gilman's 'Edge' series as my favorite reads ever... and yet... and yet... I find your takes on works I'll likely never find the intellectual fortitude (let alone ability!) to tackle still to be among the most fascinating videos I watch on this platform. Thanks for your channel.
One of the things I like most about Wolfe is that he can blur the line that exists between what we think of as "part of the story" and what we think is not. For example: Included at the beginning of each of the 3 volumes of The Book of the Short Sun, there is a list of the names of signifcant people and places. This list is not there merely for the convenient reference of the reader; it is part of the story. It actually contains information not found in the main body of the book, and can help a person make better sense of the plot. He does something adjacent to this in The Book of the New Sun when he frames himself as the TRANSLATOR of that work rather than the author, thereby creating the fictionalized character "Gene Wolfe" which makes the appendices at the end of each of that book's 4 parts not appendices at all, but rather another part of the story. The cheeky show-off. Lol
Really good review. Similar to my response. I found it really opaque, like deep future Nixon writing his self serving memoirs but he's really space Jesus or something. I thought I (sort of) had a sense of what was happening, but fuck all idea of why it was happening. Stalled out on Urth of the New Sun after a couple chapters. Maybe I'll get back to it someday.
Been a while since I read these , but I remember having the same feeling I had from reading Philip k Dick novels. Interesting premise and characters, great ideas that pull you in a couple of directions and ultimately mostly forgettable prose. Asks the same question. What is reality?
I only read this once about 10 years ago and I am not sure if I want to read it again (I didn't read the "5th book" either). I loved the dreamlike atmosphere of some sections and I think I like the general style better than you do but overall I definitely share the "being sick of riddles" and I'd also say that Wolfe is "overegging the pudding". It's just too much allegory, too many riddles and stuff put into one book and it feels like being difficult and weird for its own sake.
Have you read the fifth head of Cerberus ? ‘Tis a stranger and more complex book than book of the new sun me thinks .Maybe dare I venture a more enjoyable read also ! Certainly worth investigating .
Jack Vance is my personal favorite author of all time. I agree with you on the tone, the masterly creation of an alien society like some kind of mad cultural anthropologist. Never be another like Vance.
A fondness for monarchism is endemic to conventional fantasy fiction (farm boy becomes king), so Wolfe may just be employing the trope rather than arguing for it.
Everything you say is 100% true, and I shouldn’t have liked it based on my general taste. But I loved it. I’m still not sure why. I think it was because there are sections of prose I just loved. I recommend it to a friend, and he stopped 1/2 way, which is completely reasonable. Thanks for sharing your POV
If you want answers, don't read Wolfe. I read these as they were coming out, then again when they were all out. Then again when the Long Sun came out, and again when the Short Sun came out. Still not sure about what happens. Gotta read it all again. This is modern picaresque, and even better than Cervantes or Grimmelshausen. By the way, The Long Sun is much more straight forward than the New Sun. The Short Sun is a bit more like The Fifth Head of Cereberus--halfway between the New and the Long. Personally, the Long Sun is my least favorite by a good distance.
Really enjoyed Shadow of The Torturer, but Claw was almost completely impenetrable for me. It's been a few years since I even read that though so I'm not sure I could come back to the series without rereading the first two now so... idk if it will ever happen.
It fell apart for me because the notion of an erudite, thoughtful, and obviously intelligent writer (the protagonist) failing to grasp what’s actually happening in his world doesn’t work as a concept. Imagine this same writer describing his life on the starship Enterprise yet totally failing to explain why Worf and Data are fundamentally different from the rest of the crew. Doesn’t work.
I have only read the first chapter and it was so "bad" that it made me want a break from reading. I really, really don't want to give it a second chance. It was like the worst date I ever had lolol. I genuinely believe this is a "snobby" book that booktubers just want to say they have read and liked.
I personally really like it just for the sheer weirdness and how unlike most other fantasy books I’ve read it is. Also like the trippy archaic writing style of a lot of 60’s fantasy/sci books in general. Not necessarily better than other books, I just like stuff that is weird, trippy and offputting lol. I totally understand why people wouldn’t like it though.
I think you're completely correct on most specifics. I've read the four about three times and, it must be said, enjoy them more every time (the latter titles in the 'series' just heighten all the faults you mentioned imho). Awareness of the narrative conceit* pays dividends for re-reads, unlike simple twists. However, it is my favourite book that I do not recommend to other people. Not everyone's cup of tea, certainly. Not as good as some people claim, true enough. Significant, rewarding and in many ways brilliant? Yep, that too. *And he does love his conceits - 'Soldier of the Mist' has the main character suffer the opposite of Severian: he wakes up every morning and has forgotten everything. And, because I am both pretentious and shallow, I liked his 'Island of Dr Death and other stories' story as the title story in his collection, therefore titled 'The Island of Dr Death and other stories and other stories'. Which also includes 'The Death of Dr Island' and 'The Doctor of Death Island'. Probably just makes other people sigh and walk away though.
Hmm interesting. I haven't read it yet but I will at some point. I've read books that sounds like that though where they tease endlessly and never truly deliver and those were deeply frustrating reads for me.
For me they are near perfect but after having read The Wizard Knight I would say that would be everyone's first Wolfe book. It's much more like reading a book instead of a text. The 3 Sun series are to Sci-Fi what Malazan is to Fantasy, though Wolfe's prose is untouchable.
I think this is one of your most thoughtful and well-stated reviews, and I would say that even if I didn't agree with it. I read the first volume when it was new and was intrigued enough to read the second, after which I gave up, for many of the reasons you outlined. As a palate cleanser, do yourself a favor and read Vance's Demon Prince series.
So it wasn’t quite *your* Book of Gold. :) I do think it would your while to once read the essays collected in Castle of Days. Stylistically they’re like the opposite of his stories, very plain and chatty and attempting entirely to reveal. There’s one where a bunch of the characters each tell a joke. There are a couple about the names and vocabulary, with etymologies and commentary. There’s one on cavalry warfare and the destriers. There’s a self-interview that has one of the funniest praises of DNFing ever. And so on. A great way to spend a day.
That self-interview bit: Q: You have the reputation of being one of the nicest guys in the field. We both know you’re a hyena on its hind legs. How have you fooled everyone? A: By keeping my mouth shut when I read garbage. Q: Have you found that difficult? A: No. I’m constantly running into people who’ve read bad books clean to the end. I admire them more than I can say, but I can’t do that-when I get shit in my eyes I close them fast and cry. Q: You also throw the book at the wall and scare the dog. A: Yeah. And then when somebody asks me how I liked the book, I say I haven’t read it, because it’s really not fair for me to judge without finishing the book. Maybe the last nine-tenths is marvelous. But I doubt it.
The one thing I love about the Book of the New Sun is that Wolfe is on your side against a mysterious universe. Reading the book feels like life in the full. And it gets better and better in re-readings. It comes to life.
100%. Every time I go back to it like I’m realising more. The podcast Alzabo Soup is worth doing a page turn with, makes you realise how much you missed
The best book I have ever read. Pure perfection with enough mystique and ambiguity to make it extremely rereadable.
Read Long Sun and Short Sun then. Their re-reads are even better than New Sun.
@@kredonystus7768 I have, multiple times, and I completely agree
What really stands out, and what I really like when I compare your reviews to others on youtube (and its not a diss to others as I enjoy a bunch of them too) is that I leave your reviews thinking 'man I really need to grow my vocabulary'.
What's more is that you don't sound like you're being verbose just to be different but rather you're using each word to be very precise with what you want to convey.
The thing about the works of Gene Wolfe is that the reader needs to take his time with him - if you're the type of reader who likes to race through a book so that he can get to the next book, you probably should leave the books of Gene Wolfe alone..
The 4 volume Book of the New Sun series needs to be treated like one novel - not 4 separate novels.
I liked it, but I liked his short story collection, The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories, & The Fifth Head of Cerubus, much more.
For those who like him, Gene Wolfe was quite productive, with many titles to his credit.
This is what I expected your take of the book to be. It's a shame, I definitely am that intended Wolfe reader, for me this is everything I'm after when it comes to literature, the zero hand-holding, the fever dream atmosphere, the accumulation of symbols, subtext and intertextual connections, the juxtaposition between depraved cynicism and sublime heart, Wolfe has it all in quantity and quality.
Either way, I really recommend you give Fifth Head of Cerberus a go now despite what you though of New Sun. It's worth the read both as a great SF book on it's own, but also as a counterpiece to New Sun as well.
I love your summary of the book. You summed up all the reasons I loved it too. I much check out the Fifth Head of Cerberus.
If a dark souls game/Elden ring was a book, it would be this. Both in metaphor of the combats zero handholding and difficulty. And literally in its vague story telling or story telling that requires a deeper intentional search to see what's actually going on. It is genuinely my favourite series, I've read it twice now. I'm currently reading the rest of the solar cycle books for the first time. But I haven't read fifth head of Cerberus. Can you explain without spoilers how you feel it's a counterpart to botns? I loved your explanation of the book too btw
And so the 100-book challenge comes to a close! It’s a shame Matt’s ascending from Earth now and won’t be able to make any more videos. It was fun while it lasted. 🫡
Eyes that blue don’t ascend. They are designed for the darkness. He will roar the catacombs forevermore.
Being a veteran also inluenced his writing and I see a lot of that in Severian.
The general consensus when finishing the first time is 'what did I just read?'
Some then immediately plan on a reread the rest are 'nah, I'm good.' I would be the former, someday.
I also found it interesting that he tells you how the series ends about 50 pages in.
I've read this twice and all of Wolfe's stuff. He's probably my favorite author. I first read it years ago and it clicked for me. I don't know why. I kept a list of all the words I did not know and looked them up. I was amazed at how many words I did not know considering the amount of reading I've done and that was what I went to college for long ago. So I was no stranger to words. I did not understand all of it. I still don't and probably never will. I don't understand everything in every book he wrote. I guess that is what makes me like it. The vibe I get from reading him. I have read his short story "Mute" a dozen times and I have no idea what is going on, yet it still intrigues me and does not piss me off. "Peace" is the favorite of his works for me. It is so creepy when you realize what is happening beyond the surface story.
your style of speaking combined with your fluid word choices and phrasing is on par with some of the best books ever written. it's pretty badass. just saying. oh and the background... inspirational! thanks for another awesome honest and real review.
As someone who read BotNS last year and loved it, this is video has been reported.
Nah I'm kidding. Gene Wolfe is one of the most "not for everyone" writers that ever lived. I think these books are a masterpiece, but within the first chapter I could easily see why it's so divisive. For me, the prose was absolutely perfect and the atmosphere it created is the strongest I've ever read. I don't understand these books at all pretty much, but man, I _feel_ them. Since reading them, I've been seeking more atmospheric, prose-heavy work and have discovered Lord Dunsany, Fritz Leiber and Clark Ashton Smith and they're all incredible. I honestly enjoy that stuff a lot more than the rigid world building stretched across 8 massive books we see so much today. Gene Wolfe, like Le Guin, to me, represents a development of that old style of fantasy that practically died out once Lord of the Rings started showing its influence.
He'll read it all again
check out john crowley's stuff like...engine summer. he might be for you
well stated - i could use a blast of fantasy after all the hard sf i read. my only background in it is everything robt e howard and larry niven’s terrific short story ‘not long before the end.’
@@athoszubiaur2144Yeah the more everyone describes Gene Wolfe, I gotta read him since I love John Crowley
@@athoszubiaur2144 I'm absolutely keeping that one in mind. Thanks, man.
You've made a great point that I haven't heard from anyone else that would really effect my reading of the book, Thank You.
I can handle a story with an open-ended conclusion, but one that continually poses questions, and promises answers, but never really provides them would drive me to distraction! It would really build the resentment.
Something about your response (and, possibly, also the vintage cover to the Urth of the New Sun that you showed as well) really made me consider a new filter with which to read it (which I haven't yet):
trying to imagine what it was like to be reading it in its original setting (by that I mean both intended audience as well as time written.)
This is just such a great review / reaction piece. I really appreciate it.
Thanks Walt
Millennial problem 😂
I thought the first two thirds of Shadow was some of the most compelling literature I'd ever read. I loved the setting and the situation surrounding Severian's wobble over torturing one of his 'clients'. The prose and revelatory style was brilliant to me and there was an exciting emotional hook at the heart of the story. I couldn't quite believe it... However, once the main character leaves this chapter behind, it became rather harder to contend with...!🙄 I still like dipping into it on Audible every now and then. It feels like revisiting a half-remembered dream.
That’s exactly how I felt
Excellent review and a very honest expression of your thoughts and feelings about the book.
I am a Wolfe fan and intend to read everything written by him - I have read BOTNS as well as Long and Short Sun and am absolutely humbled by the scope and beauty of the solar cycle .
If in the future you do decide to give Wolfe another shot - do try Long Sun, I think the first two books are a lot more explicit than most of his other works.
If you do finish the Solar cycle I would be very interested to hear your thoughts - though that seems unlikely at this time.
Keep the reviews coming and Happy reading !
Absolutely fair review. All that you did not like though I loved among other things. But I loved it on the second read-through where everything just fell into place and I did not feel like Wolfe was teasing me. First read was really taxing and confusing I'll admit. With context it feels like Wolfe is shouting the book's narrative and answers at you but without it, the mystery, references, and the sedate style can become too much. I understand your desire not to read it again but by god if you do try it again some improbable day ahead, I'd love to hear your thoughts on it again.
I want to recommend the podcast ReReading Wolfe for when you choose to reread it. As they say, "there is no such thing as reading a Gene Wolfe book, you can only reread it"
Very interesting!
I read Book of the new sun back when I was 16 or so, and was so so fascinated with its otherworldliness, with its escaping any explanation (from what I remember), and many of the images it conjured up still stick with me 30 years later. But I read it at a very impressionable young age when I didn't have much of an idea of what I like or don't like to read in novels. I was very accepting of most of what I read back then.
These days? I wonder what I'd think now if I were to re-read it.
ive had the exact same experience and thought line! a decision to make...
I had a similar experience and decided to reread it this year. I understood so much more and it enchanted me so much stronger. It was difficut for me to pick up any other book after that. Suddenly all the stuff I had on "to read shelf" looked so infantile. I also found that authors considered 'great' (also by me) looked like amateurs compared to Wolfe. I am still raving about this book at almost every meeting with friends, testing their patience.
My feelings/thoughts on books rarely align with yours but this time you perfectly articulated the way I felt about these books. By the time I finished Urth I had no desire to ever come back and re-read them or continue with the spin-offs.
I was glad to finally see this video posted, mainly because I thought you would have many of the same feelings about Wolfe’s writing as I do. And you do. I was finally drawn to read BotNS by it’s heavy gothic feel, etc. But I congratulate you on getting through all 5 books. I could not. The 1st book I enjoyed, but I ended up putting the 2nd down for reasons I won’t get into here. Wolfe could write amazing things and not so amazing things. The one truly amazing novel that I never hear anyone talk about is “Peace.” A somewhat straightforward novel, sometimes marketed as “fantasy.” For me, he achieved in this book, what he kept trying to repeat in later books, like BotNS.
I think your analysis is spot on. I managed to get through the first two books (collected in one volume) several years ago, and enjoyed some of it, but could never bring myself to start the second volume.
I'm not against literature that makes you work a bit, but when it becomes a tedious slog, with no payout in sight, I tend to think it might be time to move on. But more power to those who enjoy it.
Knew zero about Wolfe and his work when I got the new sun books for Christmas. Was so absorbed in the freaky world I couldn’t put books down for three weeks till I’d finished. Loved not being spoon fed and was entertained by the procession of Odyssey like monsters and villains the lead character came across. I’m Catholic and didn’t notice any deep Catholic feel to the series. Couple of generic biblical references that made sense in the context of Earths history thousands of years in the future, when a muddy memory of the Bible would persist.
I loved it the first time, the open-ended strangeness, and devoured it all - nothing like anything I'd ever read before - and when it ended I wanted more. So I read it all again.
Listening to you talk about the books so elequently makes my day.
Very well said and I really like the sense of engagement I get from this (as I do from all your videos).
For me, the key (but not the only) problem with the book is that all of the Byzantine misdirection and linguistic play is in the service of a boring and shallow conceit: it’s yet *another* SF story about a guy who finds out he’s The One.
The narrative and stylistic hijinks don’t actually change or reframe or undercut this conceit - they simply decorate it.
Their effect is to make a very familiar type of story (grandiose sci-fi wish-fulfillment) seem more interesting than it truly is.
Absurdly reductionistic
The reason I enjoy watching your videos is your honesty. When you don’t connect with a book, you still present pros and cons in a articulate manner.
Appreciate you wrangling with the book. Well put. It is to me both maddening and entrancing. The Book of the Long Sun is better I think. So are The Short Sun books. The puzzles continue as does the genius. I’ll just say, in the rereads, these books display uncanny ability to morph into entirely different books. That’s the heart of his work.
It is my favourite book series but totally understand that it won’t be for everyone. I dedicated a lot of time during lockdown to it.
I just read this and then Urth of the New Sun, I can't wait to re-read them. Beautiful prose and a book that really stays with you
Wolfe's world is cryptic and confusing and so is his writing, so the fact that you're always on the fence about understanding or fully understanding what's going on tends to reinforce this reality that is so different to ours that we'll never fully understand that, either. It's not so much a narrative journey (though of course it is in every sense), but a visit to a world so fascinating and potentially, weirdly plausible that you really don't need a conventional story to propel you through the work. Rather than watching a series of pictures presented in order that makes a movie, it's a series of pictures in semi-random order based on multiple themes, many of which you feel like you can almost but not quite discern. When reading it, you can't allow yourself to get frustrated with the fact that everything doesn't make sense because it's not supposed to. Once you get that it's not because you're not reading carefully enough (or you're not smart enough to understand) and that the confusion and ambiguity and absurdity is an intentional part of the experience, it's easier to just go with it.
This is the first review I’ve seen that hasn’t been filled with unabashed praise, and I appreciate that. It’s on my list, probably next. I’ll keep an open mind but take stock after book 1. Thanks
thats what im going to do for sure - we’ll see after the first one
Definitely need to get to this someday. However, that backdrop would go great with a Zelazny Lord of Light video! Safe travels!
You took the words right out of my mouth! ... or keyboard...
good call! 😂
I appreciate the honesty even when so many people were expecting you to fall in love with this book.
Dying Earth didn't jive with me and I know what you mean about overly performative writing so I'll be skipping this one. Thanks 👍
My impression is its better as a vibe book then a puzzle book.
As a puzzle book its way to hard and slow, as a experience book were your not supposed to know whats happening or figure anything out its enjoyable.
The "I am sick of puzzles" only really hit me once he got to the observation tower in Citadel of the Autarch. I could not for the life of me figure out why Severian was attempting to kidnap the observer, why Severian was witnessing different phases of the earth, and the bombing of the Pellerine camp: I just didn't understand why I had to know any of this stuff at that particular point in the story. By Citadel I'm more or less aware that Urth is Earth, and we're very far flung into the future, so why am I being shown all of this stuff for nearly 60 pages only for it to be immediately discarded after Severian leaves? With Citadel, I feel like it was time to pump the brakes on the mystification and to begin dispelling illusions. Wolfe does do that, but only after introducing half a dozen more mysteries right before. This is for sure my favorite speculative fiction series of all time, but it's hard to disagree that the series can become mentally taxing for no good reason.
This sounds like an interesting series. Looking forward to reading it.
I appreciate a good allegorical mystery throughout, but as you said, it can get exhaustive. For me, I personally like a few safety nets with it though so the text doesn't feel like work.
Congratulations Matt, it’s been a joy to see you do this 100 book challenge
I’m always directed to these books because Jack Vance is one of my favorite authors. I’ve tried them several times but I dislike the unreliable narrator type of fiction so much I never proceed past the first few chapters. Beautiful prose, though.
You are missing out, ...on so much 😂
He is not that unreliable, few scattered instances in the book & Wolfe always gives you a clue so you can figure everything for yourself. He is not some " choose your own meaning " author...
Of course, three or four readings minimum to appreciate Wolfe's books, but it's worth it...
Your experience was almost identical to mine. I read this a couple months ago. Since then I've read some of Wolfe's short stories (in the collection 'The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories') and I feel like I "get" Wolfe a lot more now, so I will re-read BOTNS at some point. I would actually suggest readers unfamiliar with him start with something like Alien Stones or The Death of Doctor Island first to get a feel for what to expect, and maybe more importantly what NOT to expect. You really have to trust him to make it through BOTNS without going crazy and he doesn't actually earn that trust in BOTNS, he just takes it for granted.
You should read Alien Stones since you love Blindsight so much. A lot of the themes and ideas in Blindsight I think were borrowed straight from that story. Wolfe was definitely a visionary when it comes to scifi. That story has a lot of ideas you see pop up in tons of scifi since.
I had never heard of it. I do live under a rock. Best wishes.
I haven't read this yet but this review reminds me of a lot of reviews I've seen done on Malazan and I loved that. So, I think I will move it up on my list.
Something I've been curious about for a while. I've yet to read any Wolfe. For those who've read both, how would you compare him with Pynchon?
This video is why i just putchased the first book.
I love the dark souls games and I adore the mystery about them.
So if this can evoke that same mystery thats great. Like having some pieces of the puzzle but maybe having to fill in some gaps. Thats great
Looking forward to it
I felt pretty much the exact same way. By the end I just did not give a shit. You need more little payoffs along the way to keep the reader giving you of the benefit of the doubt and keeping interest high so that you can buy into the big philosophical message at the end.
Have you read the Gormenghast books? I feel like it's the greatest work of world building written, with fantastic characters on top. I often think that Gormenghast works well for people who have similar views on Wolfe as yours.
I have that trilogy but haven’t read it yet. Still have to finish Endymion duology and book of the new Sun books 3 and 4.
I've seen several sci fi book review channels, and I think yours is consistently the best. Keep it up. I also love the background pictures.
Excellent. I'm counting on you doing a further 100 book challenge. Maybe mix it up a little, with a bit of SF, lit-fic, horror, crime, good obscure books that everyone should read... Just a thought. Anyway, I have hugely enjoyed this series and tracked down a lotta books as a result!
One of the best reviews I have come across. This is a VERY demanding work. All the internal and external references as well as word plays polarize readers in my experience. To me it is an absolute masterpiece while for others so many demands on the reader for what is ultimately a morality play is just too much to ask.
I love it as an adventure in a mysterious dying world and that's enough for me. Similar to Vance.
I think you're really missing some of the complexity of Severian's role as a narrator. He's not just unreliable to us, our awareness of his reliability is altered throughout the narrative, and not often in time for us to appreciate it! There's also many factors that affect this, like Thecla being carried along with him. Even the first chapters drop jewels and hints that would never be understood except in hindsight or a second reading.
Exceptional review. Thanks. I'm one of diehards but I completely understand that Wolfe's style could so exasperate otherwise engaged and attentive readers.
Sorry you didn't love the books-they are a bit long to read if you aren't enjoying yourself. I enjoyed them, but I didn't feel any desperate need to work everything out. I just loved the richness of the world he slowly builds up and sense of deep time. I also enjoyed Severian who starts out for me as a sort of horror figure and grows gradually more sympathetic. I just loved the wooden intergalatic space ship with sails in Urth of the New Sun that seems to be Yggdrasil. That was just so cool.
Definitely a great series, but not the easiest read. I remember starting a list of unfamiliar words and once I hit about 50 while maybe a third of the way through Shadow of the Torturer (can't remember exactly, it has been a couple decades), I gave up. Then I realized the words were either archaic or made-up. Anyhow, the coda book Urth was may favorite of the lot.
FYI, the UK mass markets from Arrow in the early 80s are just gorgeous, with wrap-around Bruce Pennington art.
"Narrative indulgence" about sums Wolfe up in a nutshell.
Omg I literally just finished reading The Urth of the New Sun a little while ago. :D Probably didn't understand a lot of it, but it was a helluva ride. Definitely some of the most literary sci-fi I've ever read.
A near the end of career book by Wolfe which I enjoyed was Home Fires which had Wolfe stepping into Joe Haldeman territory with a future military adventure and the problem of time dilation on relationships.
Good, honest review, it does remind me of my thoughts after the first time I read BOTNS. However, the Vance-like atmosphere really left an impression on me and despite the exhaustive puzzles and intricacies which really detracted from the enjoyment of the book, I returned for a second reading after about 10 years. Second time around really made a difference. Not only does it add clarity but the enjoyment factor is enhanced once you start putting the puzzles together. I am a Wolfe devotee now and consider this the greatest sci-fi book ever written. Wolfe’s catholicism was a challenge, I am an atheist with strong feelings against being raised catholic but I still think Wolfe deserves the accolades he gets. Most books are not worth rereading, there are so many great books out there and so little time. This one really pays in dividends.
Very good review. Very thoughtful. I read the books in highschool, I liked/intrigued the books, definitely did not love them but I felt the reading had much to offer and my Jack Vance high carried over a little to Wolf's Sun. The writing style does draw you in slightly butt repels with it's difficulty. I wish I could say I loved them but that would be a lie!
I think the audiobook helps a lot. The performance is so great and it really guides you in how it’s supposed to be read and the time with which it should be read. I think if I had only read it and not been listening to the audiobook I probably wouldn’t have liked it as much
Fascinating review. I sense your respect but not empathy. It resonated with me, though not to perfection. After for years hearing about it, my reaction was not that there were not enough answers, but for me it stuck the landing TOO well crafted. Delaney and Zelazny and Vance himself answer the questions I think more mysteriously and abstractly. I think this series is literally the best of the bunch, but other SF masterfully written was to me more mysterious.
I agree with your review completely... I read the first of the two volumes and was both exchanted and exhausted by Wolfe's labyrinthian exposition. I've yet to generate the energy to tackle the remaining volume... not sure I will... I did, based on your review, greatly enjoy Aldiss's Hothouse! Interested in your thoughts on Edgar Rice Burroughs at some time in the future... the 1st three John Carter novels are great pulp fun and the combined pair of Tanar of Pellucidar and Tarzan at the Earth's Core quite entertaining...
I love The Book of the New Sun (and the other 'Sun Cycle" books, especially The Book of the Short Sun) but I can definitely understand why others don't. Severian claims to have a perfect memory, but he's also something of a unreliable narrator (which is typical with Wolfe.) He describes things the reader would easily recognize otherwise in ways that a person today would not, obscuring what would otherwise be clear. He asks questions that are never directly answered but only implied, often from parts of the text earlier than the question. It rewards re-reading, but it isn't for everyone.
aah well put - this makes sense - thx
Read this when I got covid and absorbed the whole thing through a haze of fever dreams. I would wake up, drink some ginger ale, read in bed for a few hours, then fall asleep and dream of Urth for 20 hours.... Repeat for a week. That's how I recommend everyone encounter BOTNS. I don't think I'll be revisiting it as a healthy person.
This is a very well spoken and thoughtful review. He’s 100% correct. And definitely the book CANNOT be understood on a single reading. After 2 or 3 readings it unlocks.
I read Gene Wolfe's stuff. Very good.
I did read the BOTNS cycle when it was first published. I was suitably impressed. However BOTNS doesn't hold a candle to Wolfe's extensive collection of short fiction. Wolfe disciplined himself to sharpen his focus - due to length limitations. In a way I kind of regret the attention New Sun gets as it detracts from his rep as a short story master. At any rate, I recommend Storeys From the Old Hotel, or any of his collections.
the only book i read from him was Castleview and it was ok. not sure if that was a good starting point to reading him as his writing style is very strange compared to others iv read and maybe im just not used to it. but id like to try out something like this
I love Book of The New Sun and your criticism is one of the most cogent I have heard.
Ahh interesting.. If I had to, I would humbly guess you'd like it more :) from the little i know of your taste
I love the sense of being out of my depth, when reading Wolfe.. the nebulous connections.. the labyrinthine structures; feels to me like a great symphony does, with motives reprising and morphing and connecting..
I too don't much care for his views and sensibilities. So I don't read him in the same way I read Le Guin for example..
The lack of closure can be offputing indeed. Last book I read of his, is Peace.. and I adored it.. and felt frustrated at the same time, by the end of it.. It's one of the reasons I love Urth, this sense of closure... with some narrative clarification, i found it more of a reward, emotionally. Feeling that the Severian at the end of Urth, would not do almost any of the f'd up things he did throughout BOTNS.. shone a redemptive light, retrospectively, on the whole work for me.
PS: I got back to reading after months, and with Roadside Picnic, inspired by your latest Top 15. Amazing book. Started Solaris as well, and might be following the list backward ^.^
imo roadside is the greatest sf novela of all time.
I agree with much of this on the seeming "overwrittenness" of a bunch of it. Sort of unnecessary complexity. But man those books are so weird and intriguing. I still think about the world and worldbuilding aspects of BotNS, 15 years after reading it.
it's been forever since I read these. My, very vague, recollection of them is that I didn't care for them that much....sounds like I might need to give it another shot!
Actually, it sounds like you might not need to give it another shot
@@chriswright9096 You may be correct sir! ....still there's that little worm of curiosity...
This is entirely unrelated to this video, but I was just wondering if you've read any more Kim Stanley Robinson since you finished Red Mars? I'd be super interested to hear your take on the remainder of the Mars Trilogy, and also some of his other works. :)
Haven't circled back to it but probably will eventually
I DNF'd Claw on like the second page when I realized it was not picking up directly after the cliffhanger of the first book.
You might like his short fiction such as the cycle of stories that begins with "The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories" or the main novella from Fifth Head of Cerberus. The style is usually a bit less enigmatic and obviously the issue with delayed resolution is minimal.
Great, fair review of a singular reading experience!
Everything Wolfe wrote was interesting. I really liked Pirate Freedom, and the Soldier series are also good.
I'm 90 seconds in, and I think he's made a perfect argument as to why all readers should experience this book. (Now I'll be watching the rest of the video lol)
If you'd like something similar, but a bit easier to parse and pull apart I'd recommend Terra Ignota by Ada Palmer (who wrote the most recent foreword for Book of the New Sun). Rather than Dying Earth, it's set in a "mid-future" in which spaceflight is beginning to happen, there's a lunar city and terraforming has begun on Mars and people use flying cars that can travel the world in a couple of hours. Like BotNS, it is being narrated as a script that is written as a history for other future peoples, but Myles Canner is a significantly more stylish and less subtle writer, though admits that he is biased in the way he describes people. It follows his attempts to help several world leaders navigate an unusual break-in, while at the same time is trying to hide and raise a possible God-child.
I think I've said/spoiled enough to tease without ruining anything major. There are a few more ways in which it is more similar to BotNS and a few which differ even more, but Palmer herself has noted it as a favourite of hers and a clear influence, though not the biggest (that would be Voltaire).
I'm too much of a Neanderthal to read something like this (for instance, I've enjoyed a Dan Brown book, as well as the one Scalzi I've tried); heck, David Morrell's 'First Blood' is up there with a couple of Hornblower books, and all of George G. Gilman's 'Edge' series as my favorite reads ever... and yet... and yet... I find your takes on works I'll likely never find the intellectual fortitude (let alone ability!) to tackle still to be among the most fascinating videos I watch on this platform. Thanks for your channel.
Egad man! Dan Brown!!?
Dont sell yourself short. You might get something else out of the books that others dont. Try it anyways
Try the audiobooks
One of the things I like most about Wolfe is that he can blur the line that exists between what we think of as "part of the story" and what we think is not.
For example: Included at the beginning of each of the 3 volumes of The Book of the Short Sun, there is a list of the names of signifcant people and places. This list is not there merely for the convenient reference of the reader; it is part of the story. It actually contains information not found in the main body of the book, and can help a person make better sense of the plot. He does something adjacent to this in The Book of the New Sun when he frames himself as the TRANSLATOR of that work rather than the author, thereby creating the fictionalized character "Gene Wolfe" which makes the appendices at the end of each of that book's 4 parts not appendices at all, but rather another part of the story.
The cheeky show-off. Lol
to answer your question, yes
I put it up there with Solaris, Roadside Picnic, and Neuromancer. But at the end of the day, I respect your opinion.
Really good review. Similar to my response. I found it really opaque, like deep future Nixon writing his self serving memoirs but he's really space Jesus or something. I thought I (sort of) had a sense of what was happening, but fuck all idea of why it was happening. Stalled out on Urth of the New Sun after a couple chapters. Maybe I'll get back to it someday.
lol
Been a while since I read these , but I remember having the same feeling I had from reading Philip k Dick novels. Interesting premise and characters, great ideas that pull you in a couple of directions and ultimately mostly forgettable prose. Asks the same question. What is reality?
I only read this once about 10 years ago and I am not sure if I want to read it again (I didn't read the "5th book" either). I loved the dreamlike atmosphere of some sections and I think I like the general style better than you do but overall I definitely share the "being sick of riddles" and I'd also say that Wolfe is "overegging the pudding". It's just too much allegory, too many riddles and stuff put into one book and it feels like being difficult and weird for its own sake.
You're not wrong about The Sword of the Lictor. I read it in 2 days. The Claw of the Conciliator however is the best thing I've ever read.
Have you read the fifth head of Cerberus ? ‘Tis a stranger and more complex book than book of the new sun me thinks .Maybe dare I venture a more enjoyable read also ! Certainly worth investigating .
Jack Vance is my personal favorite author of all time. I agree with you on the tone, the masterly creation of an alien society like some kind of mad cultural anthropologist. Never be another like Vance.
Well, that's too bad. I guess I stand with Gaiman and Le Guin and feel this is one of the best if not the best SF novel.
Sounds like Wolfe is the Cormac McCarthy of sci-fi.
A fondness for monarchism is endemic to conventional fantasy fiction (farm boy becomes king), so Wolfe may just be employing the trope rather than arguing for it.
I've responded to other books the way you seem to be responding to this: "I admired it a lot more than I enjoyed it."
Everything you say is 100% true, and I shouldn’t have liked it based on my general taste. But I loved it. I’m still not sure why. I think it was because there are sections of prose I just loved.
I recommend it to a friend, and he stopped 1/2 way, which is completely reasonable.
Thanks for sharing your POV
thats exactly what has me interested in giving the first book a whirl and then we’ll see.
If you want answers, don't read Wolfe. I read these as they were coming out, then again when they were all out. Then again when the Long Sun came out, and again when the Short Sun came out. Still not sure about what happens. Gotta read it all again. This is modern picaresque, and even better than Cervantes or Grimmelshausen. By the way, The Long Sun is much more straight forward than the New Sun. The Short Sun is a bit more like The Fifth Head of Cereberus--halfway between the New and the Long. Personally, the Long Sun is my least favorite by a good distance.
Really enjoyed Shadow of The Torturer, but Claw was almost completely impenetrable for me. It's been a few years since I even read that though so I'm not sure I could come back to the series without rereading the first two now so... idk if it will ever happen.
It fell apart for me because the notion of an erudite, thoughtful, and obviously intelligent writer (the protagonist) failing to grasp what’s actually happening in his world doesn’t work as a concept. Imagine this same writer describing his life on the starship Enterprise yet totally failing to explain why Worf and Data are fundamentally different from the rest of the crew. Doesn’t work.
If you want to step gently into Wolfe's worlds, you might want to read The Devil in a Forest first.
I have only read the first chapter and it was so "bad" that it made me want a break from reading. I really, really don't want to give it a second chance. It was like the worst date I ever had lolol. I genuinely believe this is a "snobby" book that booktubers just want to say they have read and liked.
I personally really like it just for the sheer weirdness and how unlike most other fantasy books I’ve read it is. Also like the trippy archaic writing style of a lot of 60’s fantasy/sci books in general. Not necessarily better than other books, I just like stuff that is weird, trippy and offputting lol. I totally understand why people wouldn’t like it though.
@@TPizzle96 uh huh
@@TPizzle96 You said it, not me, lolololol
@@TPizzle96 It's crazy how you don't realize how unstable you are for passionately replying to my simple replies lolol. Now I hate the book even more.
@@TPizzle96 You're so butthurt lolololol
I think you're completely correct on most specifics. I've read the four about three times and, it must be said, enjoy them more every time (the latter titles in the 'series' just heighten all the faults you mentioned imho). Awareness of the narrative conceit* pays dividends for re-reads, unlike simple twists.
However, it is my favourite book that I do not recommend to other people.
Not everyone's cup of tea, certainly. Not as good as some people claim, true enough. Significant, rewarding and in many ways brilliant? Yep, that too.
*And he does love his conceits - 'Soldier of the Mist' has the main character suffer the opposite of Severian: he wakes up every morning and has forgotten everything. And, because I am both pretentious and shallow, I liked his 'Island of Dr Death and other stories' story as the title story in his collection, therefore titled 'The Island of Dr Death and other stories and other stories'. Which also includes 'The Death of Dr Island' and 'The Doctor of Death Island'. Probably just makes other people sigh and walk away though.
Hmm interesting. I haven't read it yet but I will at some point. I've read books that sounds like that though where they tease endlessly and never truly deliver and those were deeply frustrating reads for me.
For me they are near perfect but after having read The Wizard Knight I would say that would be everyone's first Wolfe book. It's much more like reading a book instead of a text. The 3 Sun series are to Sci-Fi what Malazan is to Fantasy, though Wolfe's prose is untouchable.
I think this is one of your most thoughtful and well-stated reviews, and I would say that even if I didn't agree with it. I read the first volume when it was new and was intrigued enough to read the second, after which I gave up, for many of the reasons you outlined. As a palate cleanser, do yourself a favor and read Vance's Demon Prince series.
So it wasn’t quite *your* Book of Gold. :)
I do think it would your while to once read the essays collected in Castle of Days. Stylistically they’re like the opposite of his stories, very plain and chatty and attempting entirely to reveal. There’s one where a bunch of the characters each tell a joke. There are a couple about the names and vocabulary, with etymologies and commentary. There’s one on cavalry warfare and the destriers. There’s a self-interview that has one of the funniest praises of DNFing ever. And so on. A great way to spend a day.
That self-interview bit:
Q: You have the reputation of being one of the nicest guys in the field. We both know you’re a hyena on its hind legs. How have you fooled everyone?
A: By keeping my mouth shut when I read garbage.
Q: Have you found that difficult?
A: No. I’m constantly running into people who’ve read bad books clean to the end. I admire them more than I can say, but I can’t do that-when I get shit in my eyes I close them fast and cry.
Q: You also throw the book at the wall and scare the dog.
A: Yeah. And then when somebody asks me how I liked the book, I say I haven’t read it, because it’s really not fair for me to judge without finishing the book. Maybe the last nine-tenths is marvelous. But I doubt it.