Russian Orthodox SHOCKED By Bishop Scandal! w/ Fr. Jason Charron
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- Fr. Jason and Matt Fradd discuss a recently removed Bishop in the Russian Orthodox Church. They talk about the futility of running to a Church because it is more "based" or there is scandal where you are.
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"In the face of scandal, we strive to be saints." Absolutely.
In the face of scandal we pray without ceasing.
Speaking as an Orthodox who is Catholic-friendly, hates triumphalism, and thinks arguing between us as largely useless…
On remarriage, I’m Orthodox, and agree with you guys that divorce and remarriage are generally bad. But if an Achilles’ heel of Orthodoxy is in allowing remarriage, the Achilles’ heel of Catholicism is in its annulments and you can find effective attack on the Catholic practice of that. In short, on both sides there is abuse, and it’s not fair to attack the Orthodox “heel” while ignoring your own.
(The thing around Met Hilarion requires a separate post)
if you want to speak to Catholics who are considering leaving for Orthodoxy, then you must be very careful to avoid triumphalist Catholic sources. You should only reference people who are fully aware of the weakest points of the Catholic Church where Orthodoxy is strongest. They should know the very best Orthodox responses, because if they don’t, then you can get the “ Jack Chick“ effect and your attempts to stop such leaks will backfire.
@@rusmeister7144 Good post!
Also a point I always like to make even to fellow Orthodox that say the Orthodox Church allows divorce. It does not. The Orthodox Church teaches clearly against divorce and it is seen as a great sin and sometimes comes with a period of time without Holy Communion. That being said, the Orthodox Church recognizes human weakness and failings and recognizes that the people that go through the sin of divorce need healing in a pastoral way. Sometimes that healing ends up with a subsequent marriage later on.
@@ZacharyWarfel What was supposed to be radical economia for a few has become the rule. Divorce has been normalized. it is now considered a perfectly ordinary thing to break up Orthodox families. My parish in western Russia was torn up by the epidemic of divorce. The first family divorced in 2012, and then a domino effect followed, where more than a dozen families, most of them with multiple children divorced. In one egregious case, the oldest son of one of the divorcing families married the divorced mother of one of the other families. As the meerkat in the Lion King back in 1994 shouted, “AND EVERYONE IS OK WITH THAT!?!?”
The children of those families are a complete mess as a result. They are the first, and not the only victims, as the divorce affects, not only the couple, but everyone around them in concentric circles, with first children, then in-laws, then friends, neighbors, fellow parishioners, all are affected by it. Divorce is a communal affair, and not the private affair of two individuals just as marriage is a communal affair and the business of the community.
@@rusmeister7144 . You guys always come to Catholic space to talk with both side of you guys mouth. Catholic are not afraid of Orthodox Church. Orthodox Church is not Universal, they are stock in their National identity. They break away from Catholic Church and they are fragmented. Which the speaker pointed out and you guys are livid about it. We are not saying you guys have no valid priesthood, even some heretics have valid priesthood
@@rusmeister7144makes sensd
The church is a hospital for sinners.
We find sick people in a hospital
@@IIZCHAOS the problem is not the sick patients alone but also the sick doctors, nurses & hospital administrators.
Yes and a hospital covering up for malpractising doctors and nurses needs to be thoroughly reorganized but can still be overall helping more people than harming. But we want the least harm possible rather than pretending it's rosy everywhere or allowing it to continue as long as it isn't seen @@CAMcCoy
Yes and a hospital covering up for malpractising doctors and nurses needs to be thoroughly reorganized but can still be overall helping more people than harming. But we want the least harm possible rather than pretending it's rosy everywhere or allowing it to continue as long as it isn't seen @@CAMcCoy
I feel sad and frustrated in hearing both Fradd and Fr Charron parroting Muscovite accusation without mentioning the elephant in the room, that Met Hilarion is prosecuted due to his refusal to give moral support for Ukrainian invasion. Even if he did the scandal, he wouldn't be prosecuted if he still supporting the invasion...
I don’t think that’s fair to say. Unfortunately there have been scandals of this nature in the Russian Church completely independent of the situation in Ukraine, and the Russian Church has actually been quite proactive in handling these cases.
That (him not supporting Russia invasion, if this is true) is irrelevant.
There are strong evidence of his scandals.
While yes the Russian Church’s schism and misinformation campaign is vast and malicious, and should be kept in mind at all times not just in religion but in politics as well, this scandal simply has too much obvious proof. This could have happened in any other apostolic church and it would be wrong and the offender in question would be reprimanded.
I remember in around 2016, when I was active at my local ROCOR church, like it was common gossip around the Babhuska about Met Alvayev sexual orientation, but wouldn't be prosecuted because he was the heir. If we knew back then, I believe so did everyone in Patriarchate...
@Hewhoyettoknowhimself I wouldn't care about his orientation if he didn't act on it. He should have followed the example of Father Seraphim Rose. Instead, he chose to bring disgrace upon the Church. He betrayed us all.
Sadly, there will always be bad apples in the hierarchy
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the Twelve, and one of you is a devil?” - John 6:70
Very true , so we must call out the evil no matter the person or office , no one should be expected to take abuse of any kind from anyone , priest , bishop or whoever , the excuses from our hierarchy and some of the laity must be fought hardest of all.
When I became Orthodox I was reminded by my priest that no Church was perfect and that there would be scandals (I'm an ex Catholic). However, I wasn't going to Orthodoxy because of scandals. I'm old enough to know all humans sin and are subject to the same temptations we all are.
Why'd you go to orthodoxy?
@Tom_McMurtry I know right? Why wouldn't he want to stay in the holy church founded by Christ Jesus, ill never understand human stubbornness to avoid the truth whenever it'd in front of thier face
The Orthodox and Catholics need to stop compare and contrast jabbing eachother. This seems petty.
I speak and read Russian, I've looked into this (whatever info is available to the public), and the whole thing is definitely inconclusive. I would be hesitant to pass judgement on Met. Hilarion on this. It could be be true, but it could be also simple blackmail, or an internal power struggle, or more likely, blackmail of a deranged parishioner that stirred up public controversy that the Patriarchate used to further oust a bishop who has fallen out of line.
I am not Orthodox, but personally I find the story hard to believe for several reasons. Met. Hilarion is certainly not a Church careerman in for the money or such. His life is ascetic, and his start of the career was extremely ascetic. He's a composer of absolutely phenomenal church/classical music (just listen to his St. Mathew's Passion!), his homilies reveal a deep understanding of Christ's teaching, he has devoted an enormous amount of time to writing of books, study of ancient languages, translations from Syriac etc, all of which are outstanding. It's hard for me to believe that a man capable of composing/writing music and books of such profundity is deep down a twisted pervert.
Is it or is it not true that this allegedly g a y 18-year-old prettyboy was living in Metropolitan Hilarion's home, ostensibly as a housekeeper? Regardless of whether or not the young man's allegations are true, doesn't this seems like a serious lapse in judgement? Why would the Metropolitan leave himself vulnerable to such a scan dal? Was there not some pious old babushka available to clean his home? Also, is it true that the site that broke the story has recordings showing that the Metropolitan was living a luxurious lifestyle? Does he really live in a 2 million euro mansion?
I don't want any of this to be true. I have always held Metropolitan Hilarion in very high esteem. I have greatly benefitted from his writings and homilies. This story hit me like a dagger to the heart. It is impossible for me at this point to separate my understanding of this story from my admiration for the man. I hope the truth prevails, whatever it might be.
I'm Catholic, lived in Greece for a while. Attending the Orthodox Liturgy didn't hurt me one bit. Only my bad knee and feet, because it's quite long and you don't get to sit very often.
This was especially painful for me because I really enjoyed Metr. Hilarion’s book on St. Isaac the Syrian.
I'm currently reading this book now as st isaac is my patron saint
This and his books on Christ 😢
You really enjoyed a book by a virulent schismatic and a raging homosexual.
Most of his books are outstanding, and some of his music, I believe, will be considered a classic in the centuries to come. Perhaps it's an insufficient reason to not believe the allegations made against him, but knowing how the Moscow Patriarchate has been run for the last 100 years, I am hesitant to believe the accusers. Slander is easy and cheap.
The church is supposed to be a hospital ♥️ Metropolitan needs it too
What I found in Eastern Roman Catholic churches was a syncretic, watered down Orthodoxy. For instance, the Stations of the Cross on the walls and complete lack of practice of the Jesus Prayer, replaced by the Rosary. No, most of what Roman Catholics find spiritually attractive in Orthodoxy cannot be found in Eastern Roman Catholicism.
Most of what can be found as "spiritually attractive" in Orthodoxy, comes from the Catholic heritage as well. We Catholics have just mostly forgotten about it or ignore it. The 'desert fathers' for example.
When the Orthodox and the Romans were united, St. Basil's nomocanons allowing for divorce and remarriage in specific instances were in use. The East allowed this and the West did not. It has never been a deal breaker in rapprochement as it was never a dealbreaker when in communion.
The jury is still out on this topic. Met. Hilarion is not what he’s painted to be in the title of this video. Patience will reveal the truth. Never run away from a Church; run to a Church; run to God.
So the pictures we saw are AI made? Look, I don’t disbelieve him in his claim that it’s part of a bigger Russian orchestrated blackmail operation. I don’t doubt that for a second. But the fact remains that he did commit the sexual misconduct in question, no?
Based on what evidence?
It is scandalous and morally irresponsible to post horrendous “McCarrick” labels on anyone when McCarrick’s ghastly crimes are equated to the allegation against one person.
There was scandal from the very beginning and Jesus chose him.
Was surprised to see that neither Matt or Father thought to mention 2 books by the great Erick Ybarra!
The Papacy: revisiting the debate between Catholics and Orthodox
And
The Filioque: revisiting the doctrinal debate between Catholics and Orthodox
Catholics of the LR can go and receive Confession, Sacrament of the Sick, and Communion at any Church of any Rite or Form of a Rite at any time. (Communion depends on the state of the Soul.)
If an Eastern Rite is right for you, there is a canonical process of changing your stability from the LR to that Rite.
I have seen in Houston people and families who have gone East, and went through the change of Rites
How did it go for them?
I never did that , I was away from the church , and just started going to an Eastern Rite, I go to a TLM and an Eastern Rite without any qualms .
@@RickW-HGWTYou're free to attend any Mass or Liturgy in communion with Rome. It's if you want to more firmly settle in an Eastern church that you would have to change rites.
He is a really good scholar and writer so its very sad situation. And I quite agree, you don't become Orthodox primarily because of what you are leaving (whether that be Protestantism or Roman Catholicism) but because of the dogmatic truths of Orthodoxy and orthopraxy.
I've met online a Protestant convert to EO, who did so out of his hate for the Catholic Church. What gave him away was his refusal to submit to his Bishop and Patriarch if they were to differ with his opinion.
@@alisterrebelo9013 I have met Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox who would rather obey their own opinions and conspiracy theories over Apostolic Tradition. It's sad but we pray that they will move from milk to meat and mature in Christ. Dogmatic truth anchored in the Patristic & Apostolic witness is the most important dialogue between Christians, but orthopraxy does relate to this of course.
@@barrelagedfaith I hope my previous comment didn't come across as being something that Catholics are immune to. No, we have our own sedevacantists, as an example in that regard.
To be honest, I don't really want to get stuck into the weeds on any topic you might want to discuss about Cathokic Vs Orthodox doctrines. Not because I don't think there value or merit to have it, but rather because you and I, might cause the other to let our emotions get the better of us and throw us into sin.
I am happy to let my legitimate spiritual head (bishop) guide me on that front. In the meantime, I encourage you to pray for the reunification of the schims. So that we can truthfully proclaim the Gospel and show the world the truth.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John 13:34-35
@@barrelagedfaith I hope my previous comment didn't come across as being something that Catholics are immune to. No, we have our own sedevacantists, as an example in that regard.
To be honest, I don't really want to get stuck into the weeds on any topic you might want to discuss about Cathokic Vs Orthodox doctrines. Not because I don't think there value or merit to have it, but rather because you and I, might cause the other to let our emotions get the better of us and throw us into sin.
Part 1 of 2.
@@barrelagedfaith I am happy to let my legitimate spiritual head (bishop) guide me on that front. In the meantime, I encourage you to pray for the reunification of the schims. So that we can truthfully proclaim the Gospel and show the world the truth.
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” - John 13:34-35
Part 2 of 2
Fr. Jason's descriptions of Orthodoxy are as accurate as the "Chick Tracts" against Catholicism.
@noahjohnson2611 Which descriptions of Orthodoxy were inaccurate?
@@FideiDefensatrix "There is no Orthodox Church" 5:27
Church divorce is a bigger sin than gay marriage.
Let me get this straight, Kirill is deposing someone for “moral misconduct”, while blessing and approving the killing of Ukrainians and CatholicChurch there……trads are totally mindboggling…….
It's pretty clear who Putin's little altar-boy actually worships and adores... it most certainly isn't Christ
one way to fail to grasp the situation
Вера вечна вера славна, наша вера, православна.☦☦🇷🇺☦☦
Are saying that Kirill is not an real Orthodox patriach?
@@algotrobertsson8721 Real as in an ordained priest? I don’t think there’s much reason to doubt that. But following the teaching of Christ and His church? Unless I’ve missed the part where the Lord commands us to butcher innocents, we can safely say he has strayed far, far from God
Hilarion was against the war in Ukraine and was transferred to Hungary probably because of his dissent. If you have kept abreast with how the Moscow patriarchate works, moral heterosexual misconduct (not usually homosexual) was used to excommunicate the hierarchs of the Ukrainian orthodox churches not aligned to Moscow. Some if not Many of the Russian bishops kept mistresses at least during the communist period. One Russian told me that it was the talk of the town that the previous Patriarch of Moscow had a long time unofficial wife that served as a nun or helper in his abode.
I think it’s probably unfair to point to compromised clergy and hierarchs in the Russian Church during the Soviet era as typical. These were the only kind who were allowed to serve under state captivity. The truly faithful Priests and Hierarchs were martyred by the thousands or driven underground and into exile. These are the true spiritual manifestation of the Church. That is how ROCOR came into existence.
@@lornadoone8887 Very true and well said! Glory to IC XC for ALL things! ☦️☦️☦️
@@lornadoone8887 The phenomena I was describing extends to beyond Soviet times to the aftermath of the collapse of the Soviet union, to the defrocking of the Ukrainian prelates who were not aligning to Moscow due to the emergence of the nation state that demanded autocephaly : that was the reason for their non alignment but they were excommunicated for reasons of sexual misconduct , to the time of patriarch Aleksi with the talk of the town remark to the same old ruse applied to people who have reservations about the war or who are not aligning themselves with Moscow theologically, like the Ukrainian clergy : many were defined to be heterosexual Lotharios when excommunicated.
Except for certain specific universal functions reserved for some patriarchates , Byzantine Orthodoxy is ( or should I say was!) largely a collection of local churches where the Symphonia doctrine of state and the secular or kingly power function separately but in harmony with regard to collective identity and values.
In this sense , the Moscow patriarchate would not oppose ordinarily any wars sanctioned by the government, and would view citizens opposed to the government in matters of war as being unpatriotic and perhaps not Russian Orthodox. I can understand that argument from the Symphonia development. Orthodox Christianity is not portable and universal in the Latin Platonic sense. There are community and other historical issues involved in attempting to propagate such a religion elsewhere, and often, carelessness of operations has been one unfortunate outcome.
There's something ironic about two Catholics talking about 'chaos' within Orthodoxy when Catholicism, for all of its top-down structure, is marked by utter and complete theological chaos and infighting.
@@alepine1986 You want to name one church that doesn’t involve itself in theological chaos and infighting?
@@FideiDefensatrix Yes. The Orthodox Church. Despite political issues, there is not one theological issue that divides the canonical Orthodox local churches. Not one.
you didn't watch the video? do you? you just think he was badmouthing Orthodox church. FYI He is empathetic and also mentions Catholic scandals.
@alepine1986 There is a literal schism happening between the Russian and Constantinople Patriarchates in orthodoxy, Many Church are being torn apart , like the Ukranian one. "Utter and complete theological chaos" is only happening in social media and media in Catholic church. No schisms.
Birth control.
I appreciate the charitable treatment of the Metropolitan Hilarion situation. Thank you for that. With humility and charity, I’d like to point something out as I’m a big fan. Some of the things said here must be challenged in good conscience. It’s disingenuous to say there is no Orthodox Church. Yes, Orthodoxy is organized into local Churches, as the Early Church, and church in the Empire was, but there is an idea of an overarching Church headed by Christ. And at the moment, there has been a break in communion between the Russian Church and some of the other Local Churches because of the situation in Ukraine, but this is not unlike any number of schisms the Church has seen over its 2,000 year history, and it’s misleading to say “there are Orthodox Churches and they’re not in communion with one another.” Most of the Churches are in communion with one another on a bilateral level, and as a whole as well. And on a final note, it seems misleading to me to lump the Oriental Orthodox into this conversation. I don’t think that’s who people have in mind when Orthodoxy is mentioned. And of course we are not in communion with them due to the issues from the Council of Chalcedon. Thank you very much, and apologies if any offense was caused.
Does this guy look like Matt Damon or what?
☦️I didn’t become orthodox to escape fallen human nature. As a Protestant I compared the two continuing traditions and found one to be more historically continuous.
@@christophermarston6657 Amen same.
In perspective, that’s a kind of blessing and not a pushback, since for the majority of Protestant people I’ve interacted with, a conversion to Catholicism was personally impossible and honestly out of the table, even for emotional and social reasons. It was impossible for so many to even look even-handedly to the Catholic Church, so whatever similar depiction of it that still managed to present an antagonistic presentation got all the benefit from them in relation to Catholicism; some - unfortunately- even converted to Eastern Orthodoxy hugely moved by the sort of anti-Catholic EO apologetics that we can find around online, which became a safeport in this sort of crazy journey in embracing the apostolic churches, when coming from a very (ideologically and theologically) anti-Catholic Protestant low church, which tends to be the case in those recent conversions with fair online contribution. Just now we are starting to see an interesting number of people, many even non-propagandistic about it - after a deep unbiased study, mostly of ecclesiology and of the Filioque theology - coming from EO to Catholicism, what was assumed unthinkable for so many and not even an honest option just to begin with. In that, and in all, we must say: glory to Jesus Christ! And may the Holy Spirit give people guidance, for we may know truths as they are, according to the best of our capacities, up to the fullness of truth and not partial versions of it.
Not always hatred for the Catholic Church comes to play (although it is just too frequent) in those processes, but, as G.K. Chesterton says, still _”It is impossible to be just to the Catholic Church. The moment men cease to pull against it, they feel a tug toward it. The moment they cease to shout it down, they begin to listen to it with pleasure. The moment they try to be fair to it, they begin to be fond of it"._ (G.K. Chesterton, Why I am a Catholic). Never give up asking the Holy Spirit to give you the everlasting peace of heart and the intellectual discernment for the Catholic faith. God bless you, sir!
@@masterchief8179 I was a Mormon. I had no hatred toward the Catholic Church. History and theology brought me to the Orthodox Church.
I really do not understand this especially since Orthodoxy is splintered somewhat like the Protestants are.
@@daniallemmon5453 That’s a blessing indeed, my friend, that you left Mormoning to Eastern Orthodoxy! There is a massive amount of LDS-church followers coming into full communion with the Catholic Church! Keep up the good work and deepen the theological and historical studies, my friend.
One thing that would always make me hesitant about leaving the Catholic Church for the Orthodox Churches is the fact that there is such a disparity between how much of the world has been evangelize by the Catholic vs the Orthodox post-schism. Am I wrong? Please, someone, correct me if I am mistaken. I'm under the impression that the Catholic Church has spread the Gospel *way* more, farther and wider than any of the Orthodox Churches or all of them combined.
*If* this is true, doesn't that suggest something? Wouldn't it be strange for the Gospel to have been mostly propagated by the Catholic Church if it happens to be a "heretical" Church as the Orhodox claim?
Haven't even Protestants evangelized more than Orthodox?
The Orthodox Church would have evangelized as well as much as the Roman Catholics when our orthodox countries had the same Colonial ambitions like all those Roman Catholic countries. And on the other side, orthodox missionaries wouldnt use force and violence to evangelize. Just look up what happened in Alaska. Local people there had been already evangelized in the Orthodox faith and especially protestants used violence to force the to embrace the Protestant faith....
@@boris5428Poor excuse. Orthodoxy lost all the great cities of the Pentarchy that they tried to impose on Rome - namely Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria. The fact that they all fell into Muslim hands and remain so to this day is a clear sign from above that there's only one Peter and only he has the Keys of the Kingdom.
@@damnedmadman
that argument Muslim use as well to claim that God is on their side ;)..
Christ told us that by their fruits we will shall know them. Thats the main reason why I'm orthodox. I was comparing for years the life and theology of orthodox saints with holy people in Roman catholic and protestant church. The level of spirituality and the frequency of spiritual giants within the orthodox church even in modern day, is mindblowing to me.
And Peter had successors not only in Rome, but he was also first bishop in Antioch.
ENough to check what Popes role was during the first Ecumenical councils, then you will automatically see that the Roman Catholic doesnt follow the tradition anymore.
@@boris5428 If it were the case, Rome would fall along the remaining 4 cities, but it didn't 🙂 As to the papacy, the popes usually had their legates present on the councils, the popes rarely traveled back then. For political reasons, many councils were held in the East, but IIRC they always regarded Rome as the see of Peter and counted its opinion of as decisive. And really, calling Catholicism somehow less spiritual is just extreme ignorance. The sheer number of ordinary Catholics, clergy, monks and nuns who built the medieval Europe and expanded the Church around the globe, often by their martyrdom, outnumber the "Orthodox" achievements by a lot. Not to mention the Catholic giants of theology. I'm saying Orthodox in quotes, because that's a misnomer. Nothing is more Orthodox than Catholic orthodoxy 🙂
@@damnedmadman
Not ignorance, that's what also I former well known Romanc catholic hermit and patristic theologian Gabriel Bunge (born 1940) told me personally himself ;). He said, that the most spiritual monk he ever met in the orthodox church was dimensions (!) above the most spiritual on in the roman catholic church.
Its really worth comparing those saints with each other.
It's hardest to stay Catholic for people needing help. Protestants don't lack love for their fellow neighbors, while when it comes to that in the Catholic Church, it's like walking into a graveyard crypt. Cold, dark, and lots of statues, including the living. Maybe all faiths end up like this, though, having enough financial support.
5:58 Copts and Oriental Orthodox are not what we refer to as Eastern Orthodox.
They are not the schism of 1054 to 1095 (or even later in Kyiv, which had double allegiance for a while), but schisms and even heresies of those condemned in Chalcedon and Ephesus (I).
Since scripture all people in the church were prone to sin. The apostles betrayed Jesus and didn’t even think he would rise from the dead.
To expect perfection from Catholic clergy is not a realistic view of humanity or even biblical. What is expected is faith and obedience of what Christ said … his church would last until the end of times and that church has an apostolic initiated leadership. That’s why there are now Catholic Eastern Orthodox church’s that came back from schism
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The most sad in this situation is not the scandal itself but that he had brought up a “ boy” who was interested only in money. All books of theology was useless
I am highly skeptical of this even being vaguely true in this case.
This was a great dialogue, and I especially respect Matt's willingness to stick up for us Orthodox in areas where we and Catholics can agree and celebrate one-another. When the guest spoke about divorce, however, I'm a bit concerned that he was misrepresenting the Orthodox position on divorce. Among all my Orthodox friends and Priests I know in Greece, Bulgaria, and the U.S., no one would say that divorce and remarriage 3 times is supported by the Orthodox Church. A quick Google search seems to suggest this is an obscure myth. Can anybody tell me where that claim comes from?
I’m no specialist in EO theology and even canon law, but it can be found everywhere online explaining that the reason for the admission of up to three divorces is entirely submissive to the “oikonomia” and to Orthodox canon law. In English, just as an example, one can check the webpage of St John the Evangelist Orthodox Church (in Pennsylvania), a parish that is part of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America:
_”The Orthodox Church condemns sin. But at the same time, she also desires to help those who suffer from sin. Thus, she allows second (and in extremely rare cases, third) marriages, as a pastoral concession in the context of oikonomia*. As the apostle Paul says concerning the unmarried and widows: “If they can not control themselves, they should marry” (1 Cor. 7, 9). There is, in other words, a close relationship in every dimension between divorce and the possibility of remarriage. However, this does not mean that the dissolving of a marriage relationship automatically grants someone the right to enter into another marriage. In general, the Orthodox Church approaches second marriages with a sense of reluctance. Thus, it is incorrect to say that any Orthodox Christian can marry two (or even three) times._
_Orthodox canon law _*_can permit a second and even a third marriage out of pastoral care, but strictly forbids a fourth._*_ Typically, if one member of the couple is previously unmarried, a regular marriage service can still be celebrated in the Orthodox Church. However, if both are previously divorced or widowed within the Church, the second (penitential) rite of marriage is used”._
Now how that squares with the Biblical teachings and with the adequate orthopraxis is another point of dispute, since for Catholics the definitive teachings on faith and morals are immutable.
@@masterchief8179 Thanks for the detailed response. Did some searching on lunch break and I do see that. I do still feel that the guest misrepresented the position as if 2nd and 3rd marriages are not discouraged, whereas in these sources (and my experience) it seems like they are discouraged.
I definitely know many Catholics, family members among them, who are 'divorced' and remarried with the blessing of the Church for a plethora of reasons. It appears that Catholics are more faithful to their teaching in that sense - at least in how they sometimes use annulment to circumvent divorce and otherwise largely prohibit it, whereas the Orthodox Church take a 'we don't like it but will work with the reality' kind of view, which makes the practice more pragmatic than morally consistent.
Thanks again!
@@paladinselfdefense I see the point, but a divorce and an annulment are entirely different institutes. I am married in the Catholic Church. By the way many people speak of annulment, it seems to me that juridical/ canonical terminology is entirely unfamiliar to them (not necessarily that’s your case, my friend). Even Orthodoxy has its compendium of Canon Law - maybe not condensed into an uniform text, maybe condensed, like in the Byzantine Nomocanon - but it has canonical rules for the dispensation of the sacraments, yet an underneath theology of the sacraments which is related to faith and morals. That would be an important difference, I guess.
Let me try to briefly explain to you, if I may. A decree of nullity is a declaration by a court that the investigated marriage never existed in the eyes of the law. So if we are talking about Canon Law, the Ecclesiastical Court has to investigate the validity of the sacrament in the eyes of the 1) divine law, the 2) natural law and the 3) ecclesiastical law (the positive law is State’s business, therefore the Church does not investigate it: if a legal positive State system says divorces are admissible, it is irrelevant for the Church: that’s not how one analyzes the validity of the sacrament). Nullity (or annulment), therefore, is not the same as a divorce. Divorce is a declaration ending a valid sacramental marriage - it is inadmissible in any case for the Catholic Church because it is referential to norms concerning Christian faith and Christian morals. Eastern Catholics have a different canonical status from the Latin Church, but even they are not allowed to divorce because a Catholic, according to the Church’s understanding, can’t contradict divine, moral/natural or the ecclesiastical law.
In general, ecclesial annulments refer to what we call the “vices of consent” and the “errors about the person” (I don’t really know how those terms would fit in legal terminology in English). Vices of consent are those referring to the impossibility of contracting matrimony in the eyes of God. The Catholic Church understands a little girl of 7 years, pressed up by her parents, can’t validly marry a guy in his 40s even if she says “I do” before God in His Church, because she is not capable of fully giving valid and crystalline consent. It is not a case for divorce if the priest ever permitted that to be: it is a case for annulment, undoubtedly.
As far as the “errors about a person” go, those can’t be lateral but need to be central, quintessential to the manifestation of consent in one or other direction. If some Catholic wants to get a annulment arguing that he thought his wife was a fan of Los Angeles Lakers, until he discovered she secretly supported Los Angeles Clippers, that is not a thing capable of meaning a fundamental error (wrong perception or deceit) about the other. But if she is a practitioner of magic “wicka” but cautiously omitted that to him, his family and friends in order to desperately marry, and does not cease to practice this pagan stuff in the course of the sacramental union turning to Christ, and puts obstacles in creating the children in the laws of Christ and the Church, it is a case for annulment because it was a sacrament contracted by deception and false testimony (by her actions, in this case) before God, which qualifies as a fundamental “error about the person”. So the “errors about the person” need (necessarily) to be referential to a vice of consent (error, coercion, fraud, etc) and also be fundamental or at least seriously endangering the souls of the one in error or deceit, being this one innocent about it.
But it happens only with solid proof of those circumstances produced in he Ecclesiastical Court (in my country it is called “Tribunal Eclesiástico”).
God bless!
@@masterchief8179 That was an excellent explanation! Thank you so much. It was very interesting and informative into the Catholic experience and view.
I am quite confident that some of the marriages I've seen are annulled among my Catholic family and friends did not quite live up to that standard, but that's also entirely my perception and doesn't necessarily reflect on the Catholic position.
I'm not quite sure which position I believe is ultimately correct, between Catholic and Orthodox, on how the Church should deal with straining marriages of this kind. Gonna do some more reading and research. And prayer!
Thanks again! God Bless!
@@masterchief8179 The question of three marriages and the question of divorce are two distinct matters in canon law. The prohibition on more than three marriages arises out of the dispute between Leo the Wise and Nicholas the Mystic over Leo's fourth marriage; but, of course, Leo never got divorced, his previous three wives had all died. Leo got his fourth marriage, but on the condition he promulgate an imperial decree immediately afterwards banning all future fourth marriages. You won't find this in the ecclesiastical canons, it's in the Basilika, the Civil Law, though it is discussed by the great canonical commentators in the Syntagma, especially by Balsamon, if I recall.
Divorce is a separate matter, it's only canonical in the event of a wife's infidelity (not as a result of a husband's infidelity, as many mistakenly believe, see Canon 9 of St. Basil).
It should also be noted that while the Church did have annulments at one point in the middle ages (and there's a whole litany of canonical impediments to marriage that come out of this that were used as excuses for annulments), but it fell into disuse because it was largely pointless and considered the same as divorce by the Church. As it really doesn't matter if there were impediments to the marriage, whether the marriage was legitimate or not, the only way it could be invalid is if the ceremony itself was not done properly. The conditions around the marriage are irrelevant to the validity of the marriage, only the performing of the marriage ceremony itself mattered in that regard otherwise we would be guilty of Donatism by insisting man's sinfulness can impinge upon the validity of the sacraments, which is not the case. So, for example, if a parent forced their child to marry them at the point of the sword, it might be illegitimate and grounds for annulment or divorce, but it's still a valid marriage if the ceremony was done properly, it still counts as a marriage, even once annulled.
Go to church for god .he is there
For Catholics looking for a book that refutes Eastern Orthodoxy fully, I can’t recommend Answering Orthodoxy by Michael Lofton enough.
If You want to get to know the eastern orthodox church, talk with an orthodox priest. There is a Lot of missinformaction in this video.
Can you name some?
@@whenpiratesattack First of all, there is no "orthodox churches". There is only the orthodox church. The russians, greeks, georgians, etc all teach the same. tradition, doctrines, etc it's the same. The oriental orthodox churches are in schisim because they do not take the 4th ecumenical council as valid. The eastern orthodox recognice the First seven councils. When it comes to marriage, if adultery (cheating) or if there is long absence of one of the partners (passed way, for example) then remarriage may be considered, other way it is not acepted. I really suggest everyone checks out rootsoforthodoxy here in RUclips. Lots of interviews to lots of priests from all over the US. I hope My English is good enough.
@@OrtodoxFitFilosofiaenAccion The Russian Orthodox Church is not in communion with the Ecumenical Patriarchate, the Church of Greece, the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria, and the Church of Cyprus. How can you be one Church when you can’t share communion with each other?
“On the day on which the Russian and Greek Churches formally break with one another the whole world will see that the Ecumenical Eastern Church is a mere fiction and that there exists in the East nothing but isolated national Churches.”
- Vladimir Soloviev
At min 5 he suggests that people choose Orthodoxy because of a feeling rather than because it is true to the Apostolic faith.
Then he says “there is no Orthodox Church…there are Orthodox Churches.” He is defining the “church” in terms of the Magisterium, not in terms of Orthodoxy which confesses belief “in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.” The differences between local Orthodox churches are not dogmatic differences and they are mendable. Some are political, such as the current war between Russia and Ukraine of which the Western powers are a major cause. Other inter-Orthodox conflicts are due to differing approaches to RC and Protestant churches, some being more ecumenically open and others more strict.
Then he notes that the Orthodox Church allows divorce and remarriage up to three times. This is true but the second marriage that is allowed is a penitential one, and the third even more so. Divorce is regarded as a serious sin in the Orthodox Church but people sin and are given a second and even a third chance to get it right. This is on account of human weakness and the mercy of God. It’s much more honest than the charade that goes on in the RC world of annulling marriages, even long term ones which produced children, and pretending they were never real.
“At min 8:25 he says “Orthodoxy was a break from Rome” when actually it was the Roman papal legate who excommunicated the Orthodox Patrarch of Constantinople. It was Rome who strayed from the Orthodox faith and split off from the Church of the apostles preserved by the four other ancient Patriarchates.
Finally, he says that one can find in Eastern- Rite Catholic Churches everything one seeks in Orthodoxy. Well, many Eastern Catholics who have returned to fullness of Orthodoxy will tell you there is a real difference. The Eastern Catholic churches were the result of Vatican power moves.
Pretty tough for our brothers and sisters in the Orthodox Church
In reality not at all . Most of the “ voices” that you see or hear in internet, never had been to church or never have seen him during the mess or services. The person who servers a lot cannot be changed in a month or even year
Have we so quickly forgotten the story of Job? Oh me oh my, we have it so haaaaard? Last time i checked our LORD and SAVIOR was tortured, mocked, beyrayed, and crucified. Buuuuut, we have it soooooo hard. Cowboy up! GOD said for men to labor, build callous and strength of body so these effeminate, low constitution leaders do not affect our belief in Holy Mother Church. Tradition is fine, but obedience is the goal. Long live Papae. Praised be JESUS.
Obedience to what ? more then a few have abused that , i.e the filth mccarrick, mahoney, rupnick, that has destroyed lives and damaged the church.
I'm still waiting to actually meet a EO person in the wild.
When I was being catechized into the Orthodox Church, my priest told me that the road to hell is lined with the skulls of bishops and priests. I don’t think there’s any delusion amongst orthodox that scandals are a part of it. The question is has the tradition been maintained? Has the faith been maintained and from my point of view when I was looking and discerning between Catholicism and orthodoxy it’s not even close. I would say also there is such a tangible difference between the lives of modern day orthodox Saints and Catholic Saints. The modern orthodox Saints lives are so parallel to ancient saints to me. That is the evidence in addition to maintenance of theology. There are a few things this priest is incorrect on and should know orthodoxy before he speaks on things, he is ignorant of some things and he is also aware of some things and spoke correctly, but should be more careful. From my experience, many Catholics online over exaggerate the divisions in orthodoxy and I think they are just human problems that any church with humans will have. But the question is has the faith been maintained and does it still produce holiness?
I've heard Orthodox make this claim before. Can you share some modern Orthodox saints you would recommend to read about? What are the modern Catholic ones you're talking about?
@@briantaylor4808 go and read the life of St Padre Pio
I believe that quote is from St. John Chrysostom and it refers to the floor of hell , and the heads of bishops being lampposts , good point either way , I would add often some saints quotes are used to excuse or mitigate serious abuse from the religious.
@@kevinninja787 Fr. Seraphim Rose and Saint Nektarious
@@kevinninja787 read my life in Christ st.john of Kronstadt. Incredible! St.seraphim of sarov. St.sergius of Russia
I agree that you cannot choose your Church body based on how neat and tidy it all is, but that it must be done by evaluating it's truth claims. But I also know they understand that stuff like this doesn't make that harder to do.
Love your show buddy
The devil hits harder on these priests bishops then all others pray for them
I feel like Matt Fradd is less asking and more begging Father Jason to find something to keep him Catholic
On the Metropolitan whom you reference at the beginning of the video, I would caution you to bear in mind that the Church leadership is very non-transparent, and that many priests have been unjustly punished, very often for disagreeing with the actions of the secular government, or thinking the initiation of war to be wrong. The idea that charges of immorality could be false should not be excluded.
The two heartaches of the Roman Catholic Church are the
schism of
1. Othodoxy and
2. Protestantism
We await your return with open arms and joyful hearts:
@@fritula6200 unity is possible but not under Roman jurisdiction. Period.
Unity is only possible under Rome. That’s the reality. No Rome, no unity.
Source: Alexandria (Coptics), Antioch (Syriac), Russians and Constantinople all not in communion. Compare that to Catholicism, 24 Churches East and West in a complete unity of faith.
Those good times matt is talking about bred so much complacency.
No disrespect intended but....
A break from the Pope IS a break from Apostolic Tradition !
It's not Rocket Science.
No Pope, No Divinely Ordained Authority, No Apostolic Succession, No Hierarchical Priesthood.
The Pope disagrees with you.
The Bishoprics of Jerusalem, Cyprus, and Antioch predate the existence of a Bishop of Rome and Alexandria might, though that's harder to tell, they were instituted right around the same time. How can their Apostolic Authority be dependent on Rome's if it predates Rome's?
@@jdotoz
You should read The writings of Early Church Fathers .
@@costakeith9048 ,
Peter traveled to Rome ("Babylon") and taught, preached, and practiced the Catholic Faith under great persecution...and then was he Martyred and buried there.
That alone qualifies as the first residence of the supreme "Bishopric".
@@carolzappa1804 I'm sorry, it's flat wrong to say that breaking communion with the Pope breaks apostolic succession. To my knowledge, no Pope has ever claimed that but rather the Popes after the Schism regarded the Orthodox bishops as his brother bishops.
I agree with Fr Charron that the Eastern Catholic Churches, of which I'm a member, is a great place for traditional liturgical celebration and a refuge from modern forms of art/worship. That being said though I think Orthodoxy still attracts a lot of people bc traditional liturgical worship is the standard for the entire church. We ECs are 1% of all Catholics. There are traditional Roman parishes like FSSP and even more modern but still traditional ones that use the Novus Ordo. But I still feel like at best we make up together 10-15% of the landscape. So even if your parish is traditional you just know there are so many out there you're in communion with who aren't. Just this past month my wife visited her Aunt's RC parish and the Deacon put on gold chains and rapped the homily. Talk about nuclear grade cringe and, frankly, it's just not something you see in the Orthodox Church (though I suppose pretty much all Western Church communions have these kind of parishes). It's feels strange. On the other hand I suppose my preferences are just that, maybe the Catholic Church is truly Catholic bc it's so broad. I don't know, it's something I think a lot about and haven't figured out how exactly I feel about it.
@@kevinninja787 Ugh! Rapped the homily? Gross! I’m sorry you had to go through that.
While any alleged instances of liturgical abuse are 100% valid (in the sense of having a need for investigation) and should be addressed if needed, I think the focus on these, takes away from what we are supposed to be doing at all times.
We are supposed to be aiming to become saints. Regardless of which liturgy you participate in, if you are not living in a way that puts you on the path to sainthood, then it's all a lot of hollow drum beating.
Participating in the liturgy while being paramount, does not give us an excuse to stop praying, doing works of charity, penance, mortification, raising Christ like children, and all the other things Christ expects us to do. And if we were occupying ourselves with the saintmaking acts and virtues, there would be not much time left for criticism of the clergy.
@alisterrebelo9013 eh I get this response a lot. Yes I agree that the things you listed are important but liturgical beauty and reverence is also hugely important. I feel that the liturgy is explained away too often as just a nice to have but not critical. Liturgy is what we do every Sunday and what we offer up to God. It's an opportunity for us to experience the beauty of the divine outside our normal, everyday experience. It's often what helps people rediscover and maintain their faith.
@@kevinninja787 Where did I say that confirmed liturgical abuses should be ignored, or explained away? I, in fact, specifically said participating in the liturgy is "paramount" = above all else, when it comes to worship.
If a person is trying to live a saintly life outside of the one mandatory liturgical day of the week, I can have sympathy for their complaints. To the rest, it just appears to sound like, they are using this as an excuse to waste time online, doing nothing that is bringing them closer to the total transformation of their souls that we are called to.
@@acaydia2982 I wish I was joking!
I want to remind everyone that there’s been always rotten apples in our blessed Church , Orthodoxy stills the the church that Christ established, remember to pray at all times and put your faith in Christ not in men
I have very little else but love for our Catholic Brothers. But this feels very much like you are casting stones without considering your own sins.
@JohnBloggart The point was to remind Catholics who are contemplating leaving the Church for Orthodoxy that the grass is not greener on the other side.
I think it would be better to speak about orthodoxy with someone who is and is well learned of the practices and doctrines for a more accurate telling.
Let's be honest: Orthodoxy looks way cooler than your average Novus Ordo Catholicism. Luckily, I don't believe that's the future of Catholicism, I think you get generations will bring back truth, goodness, and beauty to the Church.
Hilarion?
During my "excursion" to Orthodoxy (2006 to 2009), I contacted Hilarion hoping to get a way for my compositions to get played and to make me an income.
I'm still waiting for a musician and it's 17 years since 2007, which was probably when I contacted him.
As you may know, he is also a music genius.
6:24 As far as I call, Kirill is vocal against abortion _on a personal level._
He's against abortion like Pope Michael I was against saying "OMG" ...
I recall Kirill saying "banning abortion is Christian Shariah" ... funny enough, Orthodox venerate not just St. Helen, but also her son Constantine as saints, and Constantine was the guy who banned abortion. "Greater Russia" was heir to that ban from whatever subject of St. Volodymyr was in Novgorod to when Vladimir I of Muscovy in 1918 or so allowed abortion.
His pal Vladimir II (of Muscovy, I don't mean Monomakh) is adressing himself to the women of Russia with a "pretty please, don't abort!" ...
Bawden was not, is not, and will never be considered a Pope. No Pontiff has taken the name Michael.
In 1920, the USSR, to which the modern Russian Federation is a condonation of, was the first country to legalize abortions officially, so there is no surprise there is support for it in the ROC.
I think divorce is just allowed in cases of infidelity.
I’m no specialist in EO theology and even canon law, but it can be found everywhere online explaining that the reason for the admission of up to three divorces (I don’t know that those are only limited to cases of infidelity) is entirely submissive to what the EO should define as “oikonomia” (that means the practical reasons of the living faith) and to Orthodox canon law. In English, just as an example, one can check the webpage of St John the Evangelist Orthodox Church (in Pennsylvania), a parish that is part of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America:
_”The Orthodox Church condemns sin. But at the same time, she also desires to help those who suffer from sin. Thus, she allows second (and in extremely rare cases, third) marriages, as a pastoral concession in the context of oikonomia*. As the apostle Paul says concerning the unmarried and widows: “If they can not control themselves, they should marry” (1 Cor. 7, 9). There is, in other words, a close relationship in every dimension between divorce and the possibility of remarriage. However, this does not mean that the dissolving of a marriage relationship automatically grants someone the right to enter into another marriage. In general, the Orthodox Church approaches second marriages with a sense of reluctance. Thus, it is incorrect to say that any Orthodox Christian can marry two (or even three) times._
_Orthodox canon law _*_can permit a second and even a third marriage out of pastoral care, but strictly forbids a fourth._*_ Typically, if one member of the couple is previously unmarried, a regular marriage service can still be celebrated in the Orthodox Church. However, if both are previously divorced or widowed within the Church, the second (penitential) rite of marriage is used”._
Now how that squares with the Biblical teachings and with the adequate orthopraxis is another point of dispute, since for Catholics the definitive teachings on faith and morals are immutable.
In the context of doctrines, "I think" that's your mistake right there.
Even then, it's only canonical in the event of the wife's infidelity, not the husband's. See Canon 9 of St. Basil.
Is this priest serious? Someone hand him a mirror and tell him to repent and go to confession.
James Likoudis' book "Ending the Byzantine Greek Schism" is a good read for people looking east.
i am sad to hear of the problems. I appreciate the fact that Metropolitan stuck up for the Lithuanians when they were seeking their independence from the USSR.
The Orthodox has the Eucharist, which holds them together. Also they aren't completely splintered, there are only so many Orthodox churches, not to the individual.
This isnt funny, but it is Hilarios
I mean yeah, if you're American and the only reason you're Catholic/Orthodox etc is being statistically based and conservative, we should all move to the Bible belt and become Southern Baptists.
I guess the slightly more pressing version of that though is: "Does a compromise within a tradition undermine the claims that tradition makes about itself?"
😂😂😂 oh dear!
Isn't the Primacy and Supremacy of Peter and Obedience part of Apostolic Tradition? Because the Orthodox did break from it.
Our ability to submit to Peter regardless of what we think should be happening will be judged.
I don’t know what God has planned, but I’ve always struggled with a rebellious spirit and struggling with my own will.
I imagine it as if I would be a subject of a king that I didn’t approve of.
6:48 My return to Catholicism was over hearing an Orthodox priest in 2009 consider the words of Ratzinger on Africa as "uncharitable" ...
So, in 2009 at least, at least some patriarchies, were not condemning it.
I really cannot understand why people would leave the Universal Church -- full of sin and sinners as it is -- for one of a plethora of national churches, which is essentially what the Orthodox churches are.
Very misleading on the marrige and divorce statment.
Orthodoxy allowd remarrige in the case of the partner commiting adultary as jesus says in the bible that divorce is permitted in that case.
Followong christs word.
I’m no specialist in EO theology and even canon law, but it can be found everywhere online explaining that the reason for the admission of up to three divorces is entirely submissive to the “oikonomia” and to Orthodox canon law. In English, just as an example, one can check the webpage of St John the Evangelist Orthodox Church (in Pennsylvania), a parish that is part of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America:
_”The Orthodox Church condemns sin. But at the same time, she also desires to help those who suffer from sin. Thus, she allows second (and in extremely rare cases, third) marriages, as a pastoral concession in the context of oikonomia*. As the apostle Paul says concerning the unmarried and widows: “If they can not control themselves, they should marry” (1 Cor. 7, 9). There is, in other words, a close relationship in every dimension between divorce and the possibility of remarriage. However, this does not mean that the dissolving of a marriage relationship automatically grants someone the right to enter into another marriage. In general, the Orthodox Church approaches second marriages with a sense of reluctance. Thus, it is incorrect to say that any Orthodox Christian can marry two (or even three) times._
_Orthodox canon law _*_can permit a second and even a third marriage out of pastoral care, but strictly forbids a fourth._*_ Typically, if one member of the couple is previously unmarried, a regular marriage service can still be celebrated in the Orthodox Church. However, if both are previously divorced or widowed within the Church, the second (penitential) rite of marriage is used”._
Now how that squares with the Biblical teachings and with the adequate orthopraxis is another point of dispute, since for Catholics the definitive teachings on faith and morals are immutable.
No, Marriage is a Sacrament and Jesus did not give authority for divorces. That was invented for Emperor Leo VI to marry up to 3x
@@timcusack9388 Jesus had stated his view on which marriage can be ended: “I say to you that whoever divorces his wife, except on the grounds of sexual immorality, and marries another commits adultery.” (Matthew 19:9) If a married man engaged in sexual immorality, his wife can decide whether to divorce him or not. If she divorced him, that would end the marriage in God’s eyes!
@@sunnyjohnson992 Another translation and one that is more accurate for Matthew 19:9 is this:
"I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.”
That is to say, Christ is not allowing divorce per se but is saying if your original relationship is an unlawful marriage, you are not truly married to that person and therefore are not committing adultery with that unlawfully married spouse when you lawfully marry another.
Wish you were right, but being intimately familiar with Orthodoxy, the divorce and remarriage they practice is a disgrace and free-for-all. Many bishops just rubber stamp all sorts of civil divorces for every reason under the sun. The Oriental Orthodox are much closer to Catholic practice then the Byzantine Orthodox are.
Cope
Kind of Damon like
The flash
A good book to read is Answering Orthodoxy by Michael Lofton
I'm not the biggest fan of Michael Lofton but he does have a book specifically answering Eastern Orthodox objects to Catholicism.
@@MikeOrtego and is pretty bad.
@@IC_XC_NIKA well I haven't read it. Just pointing out there are books on this subject out there.
As apologists go, you can do a lot better.
You didn’t read it, did you?
The bishop of Rome never had universal jurisdiction, nor was there a “magisterium” as we know it today. What the Lord taught, the apostles preached, and thefather’s kept. The Break came from the Romans side, not the eastern orthodox side.
I enjoyed Michael Lofton's book "Answering Orthodoxy."
They removed him? How come they don't just cover it up and then ship him off to another church, like Catholics do?
0:20 I thought the Orthodox were anathema? What has changed? What is the actual Catholic teaching?
@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty Vatican I anathematized those who reject its teaching, but that fact is widely overlooked today.
@@johncollorafi257 Good to know. Ironic how the "one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" deviates from apostolic teachings and its own.
We're blessed to be Ethiopian Oriental Orthodox
☦
Consider the progression of Fr. Hilarion Heagy: to Orthodoxy, then, when he looked around carefully, to Islam.
The "tea party"? Was that a political comment? Inappropriate. Keep it on the spiritual, doctrinal, and clerical, please.
I think he meant it literally - the tea and coffee socializing that often occurs after the mass.
He meant like an actual tea party... Americans need to chill
@@oldtimmy9481 except... tea parties are more an English thing, not American.
7:58 I recall Orthodox (I think Kirill too) going far further than Émile Mangenot did about Genesis 1 in their approach to Genesis 1 to 11.
That's doctrinal chaos for you!
A Catholic should be YEC, to the credit of John Maximovich and Serafim Rose, they rightly rejected Evolution and Deep Time, but they are a bit regarded like some of you might regard Pope Michael II or even Palmarians.
Michael Lofton has a book on Orthodoxy - I haven't read it so can't say how helpful it would be.
Avoid lofton , not a good man .
@@RickW-HGWT His information is solid, and you're guilty of calumny.
I love my Catholic Church bz it’s the church of Christ not mean I like the pope I don’t like has way and I feel it going wrong way
Always entertaining to hear the romanticized Roman version of the great schism.
Dude the version the Orthodox tell themselves is also highly romanticized. I'm always hearing Orthobro converts talk about the Sack of Constantinople yet don't know anything about the Massacre of the Latins 30 years before. I also hear a lot about Photius defending the faith against the Filioque yet not much about how he went back into communion with Rome despite the issue not being resolved.
@@kevinninja787
Rome didn't budge an inch doctrinally on the Filioque AND didn't demand or even request the Western Churches that used it in the Creed to remove it...and yet, Photios reentered communion with Rome and the Western Church.
Every church has problems. That’s not the point though. The point is which church has the real apostolic succession and which church sticks to the real traditions and abides by the Nicene creed. So far the Roman Catholic Church has proven it’s heresies go beyond just the Filioque.
@Akazz1988 Such as? Also interesting note many saints in your church agreed with the Orthodoxy of the Filioque
Papal Infallibility introduced in the 19th century (over the objections of many Catholics according to what I have read), Indulgences, Purgatory, Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary are a few others I am aware of.
Good to hear someone with such a lack of knowledge as this Jason 😂
are you a troll?
@@AyatollahS.A.Khamenei Present an argument or position. Ad has mine attacks show a lack of logic, good faith and integrity. Do better.
What specific errors is he making....