Nightcloud vs Crowfeather - Who Was Worse? Warrior Cats Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
- TLDR: Nightcloud shouldn't have been so annoying about something Crowfeather did in his past but Crowfeather should have made a better effort to get to know her and his own son.
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i'm not sure that i can say one is worst then the other, because they both where bad to each other. Crowfeather using her for reputation, and being distant towards her and breezepelt. Nightcloud for getting physical. Both of them for the treatment of breezepelt. i do think breezepelt did care for nightcloud though, he did always take her side and seemed to like her in Crowfeather's trail.
Crowfeather never used her for reputation. The closest thing we have is that one scene in Leafpool’s Wish, and he never said he got with her for it. He’s praising her reputation and saying her reputation helped, yes, but he never implied that’s why he’s with her. If anything, Nightcloud distanced Breezepelt from Crowfeather, (literally pushing her jealousy issues onto him, and literally not letting him see Breezepaw after he almost died), stood by while he almost killed Leafpool, then scarred Crow when he told Leaf to leave the family alone. Or when he stopped their son from killing her. Either or. Thing is, Crow didn’t do ANYTHING. Literally. There’s one scene where he doesn’t kiss her back. When he’s about to go visit his ex-fiancée’s grave. Then there’s one where he compliments Lionpaw instead of Breezepaw, just to be polite. Crowfeather literally abandoned the three for Night+Breeze, and tried to save his failing marriage and cleaned up the mess of his murderous son. The closest thing we have to him doing literally anything wrong is one scene where literal demons are telling Breeze Crow doesn’t love him. The books literally finish in OOTS with Crow stating he didn’t hate Breeze, he just wanted to believe that, and Night encouraged him. Which is how he’s written. But the fans hated him so of course, in Crow’s trial, he once again does nothing but the best for everyone, and has to apologize for ‘uwu being bad.’ It’s victim blaming to the fullest, and it pisses me off the Erin’s don’t even know who they’re writing anymore. (Honestly there’s multiple scenes where Night is making snide remarks and clearly using Breeze against Crow, a couple bickering scenes and the announcement scene where Crow is once again saying the three aren’t his, but I’m not gonna make a Moonkitti comment on a 6 month old thread 😅)
@@jaelyyymar8071 I just don’t like Crowfeather, I honestly believe he did use her for reputation because how does someone move on so quickly from a relationship and it does say in Crowfeather’s Trial. (If I remember correctly.)
@@newabbmantics As a person who loves him, I do think he did use her quite a bit. Since what can help a clan forgive you? By dating a cat who is well respected and having kits with them! Duh. As in CFT, the 4 Clans were all devastated by her ‘Death’ And if they didn’t respect her, why would they be worried? If Berrynose was thought to be dead (which he is) the Clans wouldn’t notice besides Poppyfrost and Honeyfern
Let's not pretend that Nightcloud went into the relationship blind. Every cat in WindClan knew that Crowfeather had run away with Leafpool.
She knew that Crowfeather wasn't in love with her.
And in the super edition she revealed never loved crowfeather
@@Amanecer458 But she did want a son to love.
I dont get how any cat was surprised that Crow and Leaf had kits. At least Windclan and TC should have realized that Leaf and Crow ran off together.
I do prefer Crow, mostly because of an AU/rewrite of PO3 of mind, where Crow gets to be a dad(to Holly and Breeze) and we see Night being manipulative
It’s like fork in the kitchen, is this new news for anyone? Then again they might not have been caught as they were only away for a day and everyone was still dealing with settling in + the WindClan civil war.
also hollyleaf is a black cat. Nobody in brambleclaw’s, squirrel’s or leafpool’s family is close enough to affect her pelt that much (or at least I don’t think so). Leafpool ran away with crowfeather, squirrelflight didn’t get preggo- how nobody was bringing up red flags is beyond me. Also HOW DIDNT BRAMBLE GET EVEN THE SLIGHTEST SUSPICIOUS-
@@K1ng_Sl4y3r
Bramblestar’s Grandmother from Tigerstar’s side is a black cat
And based off Mapleshade’s Vengeance these cats have the most basic and simplistic parts of genetics down so it’s not entirely unbelievable if Bramblestar met his Grandmother in Starclan
@@whoopihyena8961 Leopardfoot was NOT alive during NP nor POT, hell I don’t think Bramblestar ever actually met her. I’m also pretty sure none of the cats in TC at the time met her, so I’m pretty sure there’s no way any of they wouldn’t be suspicious over Hollyleaf’s pelt color because they wouldn’t know that Bramblestar descended from a black cat.
@@magena120 They will have basic understanding of Genetics so regardless
They most likely assumed someone from either side of the family had a black cat
Adding on, if they were suspicious of HollyLeaf why aren’t they suspicious of Leafpool? Firestar had an orange pelt Sandstorm had a Sandy coloured pelt yet the books describe her as a brown tabby with white paws (Even shown in mangas if I remember correctly)
Adding on even MORE, when has warriors shown basic accurate genetics? How do a tabby and black cat have a silver tom and a yellow pseudo tom? This has happened all throughout the series
They both have an ego, Crowfeather wants to keep his reputation high, Nightcloud wants the picture perfect family. They don’t focus on their son whom is having all of this weight built onto his shoulders, that turned into negativity. Crowfeather and Nightcloud should’ve never been parents, practically in retrospect, abusing their child mentally.
I think night took it too far by getting physical.
She was just pulling him away from leafpool. I mean how would you react if your partner (That you had a child with) was talking to their ex? I would upright slap them if it were me.
Well correction, I wouldn’t slap them, I would just be upset about it.
I never liked nightcloud for personal reasons. She reminds me of all the negatives of my own parental figure(s).
But i also don't think crowfeather is a good father either.
I do want to point out in the ultimate edition book rock states nightcloud only became mates with crowfeather because she was getting too old to have a family. This can imply she seeks an idealized version of a family. She wants her family to be perfect, even though it never will be. I think the map "Gotham city guys" captures this idea very well.
Definitely. Both of them are assholes for bringing a child into their self-serving relationship.
After watching this video
I’ve come to the conclusion
*That you should really make a video about the Fandom’s double standards when it comes to cats like Blackstar, Bluestar, Mapleshade, and even Hawkheart and Moonflower*
Hey, could you explain me this? I'm not that in fandom to know the double standards but blackstar is one of my faves and im interested in this now
@@y88yt56rff
Blackstar gets hate for murdering Stonefur
Lionblaze gets no hate for murdering Russetfur, suggesting to kill a medicine cat, purposefully killing a clan leader, wanting to kill his father and nearly did so knowing exactly what he was doing, and wanted to kill Heathertail because he was mad at her
Lionblaze did way worse stuff yet Blackstar gets all the hate
@@whoopihyena8961 😳 oh thank you
@@whoopihyena8961 Those are two very different situations. Blackstar murdered Stonefur (a defenceless weak cat) in cold blood based on an order he’d been giving. He’d had multiple chances not to blindly follow both Tigerstar and Brockenstar yet he did. That’s very different to killing someone in the heat of a battle, who was trying to kill his clan leader.
@@thepetobsessedrainbow
No he PURPOSEFULLY killed Harestar in TBC arc and even suggested to kill a MEDICINE CAT over something that medicine could not control
Blackstar only killed Stonefur under Tigerstar’s reign
Lionblaze wanted to murder Crowfeather and nearly did so, he also wanted to kill heathertail just because he was upset with her, like he was actually contemplating DOING IT
Blackstar was a blind follower that’s kinda it
Lionblaze suggested, contemplated doing, and did a lot of horrid things
Blackstar would also be the only DECENT choice when it came to comparing some cat to Lionblaze
I think nightcloud is worse, not going to rant about it cuz im lazy
I like Crowfeather. I've liked him since he was introduced. The thing is, he was NOT a very good father. I don't like Nightcloud very much, but I like the ship better than Leaf x Crow. Personally, Leaf x Crow is my least favorite ship. Don't know why, I just don't see Leafpool with Crowfeather. I'd rather have had Feathertail live and had a forbidden romance with him than Nightcloud and Leafpool.
Same, but not the part about Leaf x Crow. Always has been my favorite ship.
@@OrcathecatSR My favorite ship is probably Rootspring and Bristlefrost
@@MambaDraws My second favorite is that too.
No just no he’s not the right one for Feathertail!
I've been saying this since forever! Sure, Nightcloud was in the wrong too and I dislike her, but Crowfeather was a poor excuse of a father AND a mate!
And to people that actually like Leafpool and ship Crow x Leaf; how can you still ship them after how he treated her? Like, I do respect your opinions and all, is just that I think that she was horribly mistreated by him after they broke up, and this is coming from someone that does not care for Leafpool either..
Nightcloud didn’t actually attack Crowfeather. She sank her claws into his fur and pulled him. She wasn’t trying to hurt him, she was trying to get him away from Leafpool. Pulling him without his permission was definitely not the best, but it was at least better than attacking him
At the same time, she could have blocked his way or pushed him with her muzzle or shoulder. She must've been aware that pulling him with her claws causes pain.
@@essaytime
She could have, but she didn’t. And I don’t think another cat pulling someone by their fur would hurt that much.
@@Cloverrfrostt It's hard to tell. I think the use of "sank" and "dragged" indicates that it was rather violent. As for fur, I don't know how similar it is to our hair pulling, but with "sinking" it might have damaged the skin a little, and she probably didn't "drag" him carefully, so her claws could get caught in the fur.
Ya no there is no justification for that she shouldn’t have been putting her paws on him PERIOD I don’t care how she pulled him it was still attacking him no matter how she did it
@@essaytime Eh i think it really comes down to interpretation. I always saw it as like 'you drag a child away from something when they are having a tantrum'. I just think they would have emphasized it more if she did hurt him.
Both interpretations can be right I genuinally believe.
CrowFeather cared for his son. But wasnt shown well in the books
I remember this passage from one of the books where Breeze and lion were stuck in a ditch and JayPaw saved them both
CrowFeather was trying to see if his son was alright
Then NightCloud pushed him away
CrowFeather is not innocent in this
But NightCloud is a karen
NightCloud and CrowFeather arent good cats
Either way
I agree with this, I don't think either were perfect parents, but there were a few cases were you can tell he cared and Breeze / Night reacted coldly to him.
I remember Moonkitti's video on him - its unlisted now but I still have it saved in my favorites list. She brings up a lot of good points about it tbh.
@@TigerSwipes yeah I agree
I dont think CrowFeather is nearly in the wrong as the fandom thinks
I dont like nightcloud they victimize her in Crows trial
Thats all im gunna say
But good point
Adding on, remember how he stayed up all night caring for a sick breezekit when nightcloud was mourning her other kits? It says he was absolutely relieved he made the night. He definitely cared for breeze, maybe not overtly, but inside he did.
fandom perception of nightcloud really got out of hand just bc shes a woman who's even mildly negative to sad emo boy the fandom loves to woobify and ignore all problems he causes for himself and others
its important to remember that charged border fight scene takes place After crowfeather publicly denounced leafpool/the three at the gathering. lionblaze has almost killed crowfeather in the past and he sits there and does nothing while breezepelt is losing the fight- very much at risk at being killed too. he lets this go on uninterrupted until leafpool attempts to intervene. crowfeather only steps in defense of leafpool so i think nightcloud is understably furious that she walks in on crowfeather attacking his own son and clanmate in defense of this thunderclan woman that he claimed means nothing to him. and he has the gall to have this booo hoo you didnt love me enough comment to leafpool in front of them.
but even before this point there have been scenes of crowfeather making nasty comments about thunderclan/kittypets specifically to be shady to leafpool after their breakup (and this imo had more influence on breezepelt's hostility towards outsider than anything nightcloud has ever done)
people skim over the multiple instances of how badly crowfeather treats breezepaw specifically in the book they spend the most time together in - crowfeather hits breezepaw for minor infractions, undercuts and makes nasty putdowns towards him, and never acknowledges his accomplishments; literally all three of the pov characters notice this and feel sorry for him and lucky that brambleclaw isn't like crowfeather towards them. the dark forest barely had to manipulate him because most of the 'lies' they tell about him are based in truth. traveling to the mountains was a perfect opportunity to bond with breezepaw without nightcloud's influence if shes supposedly the 'obstacle' but no he just treats him terribly for no good reason.
and even when breezepelt finally confronts him in the dark forest battle crowfeather takes no responsibility and shifts blame onto nightcloud. frankly i think it seems like breezepelt is afraid of crowfeather because in every physical fight they've been in breezpelt isnt really described fighting back hes 'thrown aside like a piece of prey' even. hes easily pinned by crowfeather even though hes barely wounded. he was 100 percent certain crowfeather would have hit nightcloud if he hadnt stepped in the way.
crowfeather is just trash hes utterly selfish, spiteful, and spineless theres literally no reason he should have been appointed deputy
I prefer nightcloud, crowfeather was literally telling leafpool she chose her clan over him infront of nightcloud, as to say that he would have absolutely bailed on his clan for her, making it obvious he was just salty over her decision and hasn’t moved on at all, yet he moved on pretty quickly from feathertail, as soon as leafpaw shows vague interest bc a dream told her like (ofc a dream will tell you what you want to hear). I would have preferred him to be sad for a while then find a good mate over him playing the victim his entire life then being super manipulative to his ex while being super nonchalant about how his actions are effecting his current mate and son.
Though I do like how they tapered down all the bs with them in their later years, while I still don’t like crowfeather based off his personality he’s less insufferable now that he’s being at least a little respectful…. I didn’t like nightcloud in the beginning bc when I read the book she was “introduced” in i saw that she was supporting mudclaw but maybe I read it wrong lol. She grew on me the more crowfeather mistreated her and breeze.
While fawning over leafpool
Though she was too focused on crowfeathers bs she also neglected breezes emotions but was a helicopter parent at the same time.
Though my opinions are massively different from the average wc fan on most things. As always I appreciate people talking about their views on this type of lighthearted stuff, I like seeing opinions even if I don’t share the same ^^
Thank you for acknowledging Crowfeather being manipulative to Leafpool. Its all "woe is me" this and that with him but he made the choice to leave her instead of join Thunderclan and Leafpool has a duty to be a medicine cat.
@@sparkledust3578 I mean, him joining ThunderClan wouldn't solve anything? Leafpool would still be a medicine cat, so it's not like they could be mates there.
He DID offer to leave his clan for her, when they were going to run away together. I don't think saying she chose her clan over him is manipulative?? A bit rude/insensitive, but not manipulative?
Damn, my man wrought an entire essay😂. But that’s why I like the fandom, such dedication
Crowfeather sucks! And is pretty toxic i mean he was literally like " choose me youre youre literal home where all youre friends and family are, oh? You choose them? Well then you dont love me! Now excuse me, im going to go and marry some random chick who i dont love and create an neglectful environment for my soon to be son "
I feel like they shouldn't be together and were toxic to not each other but their son as well. I haven't read the newer books, so I don't know their relationship now with each other and their son.
Wasn't it cannon or a off message that Nightcloud only used Crowfeather because she was getting older and wanted to have kits?
I always thought it would be a mutual agreement that they would just use each other for the benefits they would get.
Crowfeather "clearing" His name and showed to be a loyal WindClan cat again
Nightcloud gaining the kits she wanted too.
Have him leave after the kits are born and let it be out of "he couldn't bare the thought of losing his kits" and couldn't be around Breezekit/pelt.
Is it kinda still shitty? Maybe. I seen and read stories about that kind of thing. Sometimes it would be for the better or for the worse if they choose to have a relationship (Crow and Breeze).
I think they shouldn't been together as they tried so hard. It was toxic and made a toxic son.
Again I don't know the Breezepelt in the newer books so if he changed, I hope for it's the better and not the worse.
I think it was just a very bad relation ship, if either of them chose a different mate it would have been better. Crow-feather had just lost the second cat he truly loved and night-cloud was a desperate karen. It was just very bad timing. I also think that breeze-pelt got some of his anger just from crow-feather. It was a toxic relationship, what we should be focusing on is that they revived it a little for there son. Why do we always have to look back on the negatives, can’t we just forgive and forget for once?
the ultimate ship is nightcloud x leafpool x feathertail
?
rip crowfeather lmao
I prefer Nightcloud. She was just trying to have a happy life with Crowfeather and Breezepelt, but Crowfeather couldn't let go of his past. He didn't care about his new family. He used them to prove he was "Loyal" Nightcloud had good reason to act the way she did.
Nightcloud pretty much only became mates with Crowfeather to have kits however, fearing that she was becoming to old to have kits and got desperate. Maybe apart of her did want Crowfeather to love her, but I feel like she wanted Crowfeather to be her ideal mate and have a perfect family. She never actually loved Crowfeather for who he was, she just wanted him to be her perfect baby maker if you ask me.
I think Crowfeather and Nightcloud should be blamed for their actions. I personally like Crowfeather more than Nightcloud. Also, your channel was made a day before my birthday.
I personally love all 3 of them, though I'd say I prefer Crowfeather and BreezePelt, since they seem more developed, even with NightCloud's growth in CrowFeather's Trial. Plus, grumpy, angsty lads.
How do 0 fans not know about the Dovewings eye thing. I guess that’s what happens when people join less then 2 years ago.
Lol honestly I just don’t care about her eyes
I don't think Night was all in the wrong.Crowfeather literally used her for status and never showed any affection to her or her kit. She was just trying to cling on to any part of him because she was scared then that they're family would break up even more. And when she was captured and the kittypet took care of her, maybe she understood what families were supposed to be like and she broke up with Crowfeather.
>> Crowfeather literally used her for status and never showed any affection to her or her kit.
I may be wrong, but when breeze was born, wasn’t he relived that he survived and stayed with him while night mourned her other kits?
Nightcloud also used him for kits
They were both using eachother
As much as I despise nightcloud with every fiber in my body-
They are both equally bad
Nightcloud still sucks though
alot of yall fail to realize that crowfeather has also been physically abusive as well as emotionally abusive towards breezepaw and that it alot of said physical abuse and emotional abuse on his part happened in outcast during the tribe journey. he hits and yells at breezepelt, tho some of the stuff he does can be slightly warranted. but the narrative very much treats how he acts towards breeze like its a problem and abnormal because it *is* both of those things. hollypaw and the rest of the three notice very well that crowfeather is being cold and rude to breezepaw and they even feel bad for the kid. nightcloud never got physically abusive, the scene where she drags crowfeather back never mentions him bleeding at all. even tho it very much shows lion and breeze fighting and bloodying eachother up. so all in all crowfeather is physically abusive but nightcloud really isnt, she just did the cat equivalent to pulling on crowfeathers arm nothing too physical.
Nah, you wouldn’t be beating a dead cat.
You’d be beating a live one lol
You make good points but "need for a girlboss" is stupid.
Mapleshade is evil but its not her faulth (at least not really) the kits died and ppl either apologize her fully or blane her fully. Neither is correct.
She had derelized opinions and was mad. But it was her choice to bend the truth too. The true villian would also be Oakstar who did number of bad things and ended up being glorified by his clan. Discusting.
Ppl also claim she had a "plan" which is overreactive and stupidly described. Sh ewanted to end the rivalry and her talking about how wonderful their kits will be is merely a mother talking about her children. After all as Cloudberry said "to a mother her kits are the best things in the world".
How moonkitti and other describe it is over the top and stupid and blatantly seeking to antagonize Mapleshade. We get it, shes evil. But nit for this. Those people are just as deluded in their opinions as she was with hers.
Frecklewish and Ravenwing are innocent with resoect to some bad behavior. They are not bad cats. Appledusk is a jerk perhaps didnt deserve to die but he didnt deserve to have been so apologized infrobt of his clan. He deserved to be thrown out with her.
This book is a wobderful ibe and as an abuse victim it gives me the joy of "murder kitty vengence loool" even tho i relize Mapleshade is not justified. I still enjoy it tho.
I personally hate Crowfeather more because of how he was to leafpool I always loved leafpool and him being like that rlly annoyed me. I rlly think leafpool and Mothwing would be an adorable relationship
* insert Cheeto puffs *
Honestly, I feel like Nightcloud had every right to be emotionally aggressive and upset at Crowfeather since he never cared for her or their son, but she also was too passive aggressive towards Leafpool to the point that she acted like Leafpool was gonna steal Crowfeather away from her but there wasn't really a relationship between NC and CF to begin with. And Crowfeather didn't make it any easier when he's naturally aggressive towards people he doesn't like (mostly cats outside his clan) and he didn't take the time to get to know NightCloud or treat her or Breezepelt right (it'd be okay if he didn't get along with Nightcloud but he could've gotten along with Breezepelt in the very least) and he seemed to be a bit hung up on Feathertail.
crow feather. night cloud was acting like this because of crow feather neglect and betrayal
What is the point of being in love and then run away with someone else
I have a video idea what if sunny was an animus
Crowfeather was worse poor nightcloud
As a Nightcloud lover I think Crowfeather was worse,he literally tried to attack Nightcloud.Nightcloud only true to drag him away,not attack him.Breezepelt literally had to stop Crowfeather from attacking Nightcloud. Not to mention he only tried to use Nightcloud and neglected his own son,probably expecting nothing to happen. I always hated Crowfeather.this is just my opinion though. Nightcloud was rightfully angry at Crowfeather.
I like both
Busy mechanic 99
I think Nightcloud is worse.
Nightcloud is horrible. She’s so much worse than Crowfeather. People need to stop ignoring the bad things Nightcloud did just because they think “Crowfeather is worse”.
Crowfeather might have not been an amazing parent to Breezepelt, but I don’t think he “hated” Breezepelt at all honestly. Nightcloud also contributed to Crowfeather having a bad relationship with Breezepelt because she convinced Breezepelt that Crowfeather hated him, and always argued with Crowfeather in front of him.
Crowfeather also never physically harmed Nightcloud. It literally quotes in the book “She sank her claws into Crowfeather’s pelt and dragged him away from Leafpool.” Yes, she might have been mad that he was talking to Leafpool, but she didn’t need to act like a fkn Karen about it! She could have handled it MUCH better. People complain that crowfeather is “sooo much worse” but I didn’t read about him doing anything like that 💀
Nightcloud was also insanely jealous and possessive. Crowfeather is not perfect of course, but no one is and at least Crowfeather has some good personality traits and has shown kindness multiple times in his life. Nightcloud has literally done nothing good. She’s extremely possessive over Crowfeather, and acts like a psychopath whenever she sees him even LOOK at Leafpool. She’s also so overprotective of Breezepelt and needs to chill out. Not to mention how jealous she is of Leafpool. I’m a huge Leafpool hater but I honestly think even Leafpool is better than Nightcloud. Nightcloud is just a jealous, possessive, dramatic brat.
Literally, I hate Nightcloud so much and would be so happy if she died. I actually go insane every time I see a video of her crying. Please stop pretending Nightcloud is a victim, because she is NOT. Crowfeather deserved much better than Nightcloud- too bad Feathertail died. FeatherxCrow FOREVER!
Leafpool hater?? Tf did she do?😭
@@soursoulz Well first of all she lied to everyone about her kits and destroyed Squirrelflight, Bramblestar, and her kits’ lives..😐
I liked her when she was younger but later on in TNP she became really annoying and entitled
@Stardust ·˚ ༘ She didn't destroy their lives. Bramble was the problem in he and Squirrel's relationship. Plus, she most likely would not have lied about her kits had starclan told her not to. STARCLAN is the one you should hate, they told her to do what she did
@@soursoulz Bramble did do some bad things, but I don’t completely blame him for being upset. I think it’s mostly Leafpool’s fault. And yes maybe starclan told Leafpool to lie about the kits and I do blame them partially but Leafpool could have lied about the kits in a different way without having to bring Squirrelflight into the situation. For example maybe she could have gone into camp and told everyone she found them in the forest and she didn’t know whose they were.
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