How L'Orfeo Changed Opera Forever

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  • Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024

Комментарии • 102

  • @papagen00
    @papagen00 Год назад +39

    Another reason L'Orfeo is often considered the first opera is because it's the earliest opera still performed today.

    • @petergaskin1811
      @petergaskin1811 Год назад

      Long gone are the days when BBC2 could create and stage a version of the 1589 Intermedi "La Pellegrina".

    • @ordinarryalien
      @ordinarryalien 3 месяца назад +1

      That's an illogical reason.

  • @csabrendeki
    @csabrendeki Год назад +13

    "Underworld is portrayed by heavy brass" Shows a part with a regal.

  • @clavichord
    @clavichord Год назад +26

    Monteverdi is certainly a fascinating composer, a giant of Western musical development and key in the exciting emergence of the early baroque style. He was a transitional composer, and he was very aware of this indeed!

  • @conforzo
    @conforzo Год назад +51

    Jordi Savall is a damn genius interpretting Renaissance music. His L'Orfeo on YT is the best thing ever. My favorite parts: Tocatta and Ritornello (of course), Lasciate i monti, Vi ricorda boschio ombrosi, to name a few.

    • @johncrwarner
      @johncrwarner Год назад +1

      I do like the toccata and Jordi Savall's entrance into the theatre.

    • @michaelmcnally1242
      @michaelmcnally1242 Год назад +3

      There's a 1978 Nicholas Harnoncourt Orfeo on RUclips, absolutely worth a watch

    • @petergaskin1811
      @petergaskin1811 Год назад

      The entrance of the conductor is spine tingling. A veritable coup de théâtre.

    • @garrynewnham
      @garrynewnham Год назад

      Yes it is!

  • @TimothyCHenderson
    @TimothyCHenderson Год назад +5

    Monteverdi's work has the feeling of the beginning of something, when forms were not yet codified and rigid, expectations were nebulous and freedom everywhere.

  • @GreenGoddessofGaia
    @GreenGoddessofGaia 9 месяцев назад +3

    I am a professional opera singer and teacher. I want to sincerely thank you for making this. It was a pleasure to watch this but also the information that you share is vital to this art-form which I love and live myself.

  • @Blaqjaqshellaq
    @Blaqjaqshellaq Год назад +17

    Claudio Monteverdi was the DW Griffiths of opera, presenting an already existing form in a fundamentally original way!

  • @hm5142
    @hm5142 Год назад +11

    Monteverdi's operas were important at least in part because he was one of the greatest composers in western music.

  • @MonkeyBars1
    @MonkeyBars1 Год назад +20

    8:09 This is NOT a diminished chord but simply an appoggiatura on the leading tone (G#) of the a minor chord in the continuo.
    Definitely word painting, though

    • @lokmanmerican6889
      @lokmanmerican6889 Год назад +3

      Thank-you!
      Agreed

    • @peenanoman
      @peenanoman Год назад +2

      hahaha so glad I saw this, I was beginning to think I was crazy 😂😂

  • @shelterit
    @shelterit Год назад +5

    Anybody who's studied opera knows Monteverdi didn't invent opera, but that he created the first great one.

  • @bart-v
    @bart-v Год назад +90

    Everybody who's really studied music knows about Dafne and Euridice.

  • @lawrencetaylor4101
    @lawrencetaylor4101 Год назад +6

    Merci beaucoup for putting your passion into these videos.

  • @TonyBittner-Collins
    @TonyBittner-Collins Год назад +8

    Intro: L'Orfeo music with images of modern orchestra instruments is an insult. Come on! Period instruments, please.

  • @polyglot8
    @polyglot8 Год назад +3

    Funny how people talk about "Art of the Renaissance" and "Music of the Renaissance" as if the timelines were roughly symmetrical. In fact, the so-called "Renaissance Period in Art" was well over by the time of Monteverdi's Orfeo in 1607.

    • @caspar_van_walde
      @caspar_van_walde Год назад +1

      They really don't seem to have the right dates. They also claim, around 1600 humanism was emerging 🤦🏻‍♂️. Ignoring it first was mentioned by Francesco Petrarca, who died in 1374...

  • @Assadul-Naml
    @Assadul-Naml 4 месяца назад

    The Toccata banged so crazy that Monteverdi used it for his Vespra beata virgina

  • @charlesbonares
    @charlesbonares Год назад +3

    It would be interesting to compare Orfeo and Ulisse, separated by time, style, technique and place. Monteverdi evolutioned up to a point that everything else in Opera was just a note to his masterpieces Orfeo, Ulisse and Poppaea.

  • @Grabyrdy
    @Grabyrdy Год назад +5

    Why are most of the picturs irrelevant to what is being said ? Were they bought as a job lot ?

  • @ElvisTranscriber2
    @ElvisTranscriber2 Год назад +2

    9:45 Curiously this so called diminished forth f#-bb (f-sharp - b-flat) sounds like a sweet major third right in ET (Monteverdi certainly would have used a temperament that allowed him to access all keys), but is probably the *choice of non diatonic notes rather than the size of the interval that really creates the dissonant effect*

  • @gowanhewlett745
    @gowanhewlett745 Год назад +2

    EXCELLENT. Content and visual style both clear and accurate. Thankyou

  • @johncrwarner
    @johncrwarner Год назад +1

    The local catholic church a few years ago
    did a "production" of
    "Rappresentatione di anima et di corpo"
    which seemed largely intact.
    I have seen several versions of L'Orfeo
    My favourite was the "Balkan" style ENO production
    where the whole cast danced on stage through the ritornello
    and did tableaux vivants when Musica sang. Their tableaux told
    the whole story in microcosm.
    It always struck me that Orfeo is the only singer in all acts
    and all the other singers have one or two acts only.

  • @michelebarbieri4932
    @michelebarbieri4932 Год назад

    Monteverdi is great not only as a musician, but also as a dramatist. The conclusion of "L'incoronazione di Poppea" was, and still is, a scandal of truth and bitterness: Justice does not triumph on earth! And in the "Ritorno di Ulisse in patria" we have the only aria ever written in any litterature (except the memories of war, of course) about the theme of hungriness. Who has ever dared to compose an aria for a starving begger?! I only remember a rather similar, and also unique, case in Puccini's "Bohème": "Vecchia zimarra". Who has ever dared to write an aria for an old rag?! And at last: compliments for the pronunciation of the reader! This is the english I like!

  • @VincentGiza-Composer
    @VincentGiza-Composer Год назад +3

    Could you please do a "why listen to Bruckner" video? I keep coming back to him, but I cannot find many good reasons to get serious about his music, but I would like to!

    • @Quim1441
      @Quim1441 Год назад +1

      Sir Mahler, your music is way better than Bruckner's in my opinion.

  • @CARambolagen
    @CARambolagen Год назад +1

    Well seven years isn't exactly "way down the list"...

  • @cerracarmine
    @cerracarmine Год назад

    He simply perfected it

  • @carolepaul8390
    @carolepaul8390 Год назад

    This was terrific! Learded a great deal. Carole paul Trombonist

  • @bifeldman
    @bifeldman Год назад

    This feels like I missed the opening chapter not knowing what Peri did.

  • @ElsweyrDiego
    @ElsweyrDiego Год назад +3

    i'm entering the opera realm just now because of violin practise. tell me something: the opera "orfeu et euridice", from Gluck, is important?
    curious there's separate operas called orfeu and another called euridice.. are those related to "orfeu et euridice"?

    • @povilzem
      @povilzem Год назад +1

      Of course they are.
      It has been common practice to perform stories from classical mythology on stage in various interpretations ever since the times of Sophokles.

    • @cliffgaither
      @cliffgaither Год назад +3

      Diego Zirih :: Once you become more and more familiar with opera and its history ... you'll see that famous librettists' (Mestastasio) wrote librettos with similar story-lines. Different composers would adapt the same libretto to _their_ version of a famous opera libretto. Mestastasio was one of the most prolific librettists. Many composers were thankful for his imaginative creativity. His librettos were already _there ;_ they just needed a librettists to make sure the storyline was coherent ... because the opera (s) were so well-known, the titles were not always changed ; the name of the characters were the same from opera to opera. It sounds boring, but this is one of the things that made Baroque Music so interesting :: the audiences knew of the operas ... but they never knew what to expect from one composer from another ; same story ; same characters (with maybe one or two additions) ; same circumstances ... but the music would be very individualistic ... very unique to the uniqueness of the composer.
      MAN❗️
      What a time to have lived❗️
      Please❗️
      Excuse my ramblings❗️

    • @cliffgaither
      @cliffgaither Год назад

      Diego Zirih ::
      Gluck's version of this opera (Orfeo and Euridice) was very straightforward and pretty-much without vocal-embellishments. The castratro in the main title was more interested in moving the audience instead of blowing them away with incredible vocal dynamics.

    • @meyerbeer13
      @meyerbeer13 Год назад +2

      People did orpheus because he was a musician in the myth. Thus lending itself to musical treatment.

    • @kaloarepo288
      @kaloarepo288 Год назад +1

      @@povilzem Metastasio is the writer whose libretti have been set to music more than any other in history -I think his most "musicated" story is his "Dido Abandoned" - based on Vergil's "Aeneid" which scores about 50 composers who wrote music for it closely followed by "Artaserse" which scored almost as many including one in English by Thomas Arne . Other very popular ones were the "Olympic Games" about cheating in sport at the ancient Olympics (Some things never change!") Alexander in the Indies was also very popular with a composer like Pacini (Not Puccini) using the story as late as the mid 1800's. I've just watched an epic performance of "Alexander in the Indies" from the rococo opera house in Beyreuth (Not the Wagner theatre there) and the composer for it was Leonardo Vinci - not THE Leonardo da Vinci of "Mona Lisa" fame but a very talented Calabrese composer of the early 1700's - it was an epic nearly 4 hours long an inevitably it was saturated with bollywood dance routines but still very enjoyable. By the way it was on You Tube - I wasn't there in real life.

  • @loathgoogel2703
    @loathgoogel2703 2 месяца назад

    Not true, about "what everyone thinks": In 1980, as an already distracted third year science student, I enrolled in Western Music 101.06, mainly to get access to the music library - 3-4k LPs. The first of my lecturers, Carol Williams, on early to... early baroque, anyway, talked about the transition from the renaissance. She definitely nominated Peri & Caccini as the creators of the first opera. I understood that to be a collaborative effort btw them. Not so? Then she said that it was Monteverdi's Orfeo that really gave it the decisive push into a new era; and I don't think many would dispute that. I did notice the list there of a number of other composers - didn't know about that. I also heard more recently something about a woman being significant in the Peri/Caccini effort... whether one of them was a woman or whether she wrote some of the ... whatever. But basically, bit of a straw man here: anyone who knew anything about music also considered the Peri/Caccini (lost?) opera the first.

    • @loathgoogel2703
      @loathgoogel2703 2 месяца назад

      Having read through some of the other comments, I get the impression that there are some interesting comments in this video. However, I can't watch it through, because that heading is sitting there, effectively as a blocker. The thing is, 90+% of people who would search "Monteverdi" would also know something about music history. So yes, I did click it once, so the "bait" theory worked... perhaps: I might as easily have clicked a more sensibly titled offering. However, I will now be wary of anything under "inside the score." Don't like being effed around with.

  • @povilzem
    @povilzem Год назад +8

    This seems like a good time to remind myself that "opera" is actually plural and means "the works", with the singular form being "opus".
    At least in Latin.

    • @TheSummoner
      @TheSummoner Год назад +8

      "Opera" is plural in Latin and singular in Italian, so it can be seen both ways in that regard.

    • @povilzem
      @povilzem Год назад +1

      @@TheSummoner I know.
      Normally, these would be considered separate, though related, words with different meanings.
      But I like to shitpost.

  • @user-rr2fg8or7m
    @user-rr2fg8or7m Год назад +1

    Could you do a viceo about Frederic Chopin
    ps: love your videos😊

  • @isaiasramosgarcia9771
    @isaiasramosgarcia9771 Год назад +1

    no es la primera,.pero si la primera opera autentica

  • @sathish98654
    @sathish98654 Год назад

    You have to listen to Ilayaraja India, you will be really feeling well... explain us how knowledge he has in music

  • @austinthesan-antonian3932
    @austinthesan-antonian3932 Год назад

    Does anybody know what he says at 5:54? The transcript says 'kitaroni' but I haven't been able to find anything on that (just Instagram hashtags lol).

  • @PitaBorges
    @PitaBorges Год назад

    uma dúvida: e "la serva padrona"? não é anterior?

  • @qwaqwa1960
    @qwaqwa1960 Год назад +3

    Why fill with anachronistic stock footage? Ugh.

  • @markkozlowski9019
    @markkozlowski9019 Год назад +2

    I don't know if it's quite fair to Tallis or Byrd or Josquin des Prez or Lassus to say that Monteverdi invented word-painting, or was the first to really pay attention to the text. Don't get me wrong, I think Monteverdi was amazingly inventive, and managed to do very impressive things with secular texts, but other composers were paying attention to texts long before him.

  • @OnRoadsLessTraveled
    @OnRoadsLessTraveled Год назад +1

    While your main point is excellent, it is a contradiction to imply that the renaissance of Greek and Roman ideas, was about “freedom”. As you say, the Greeks often considered music “simply a mathematical concept”. The truth is that Boethius’, in his “De institutione musica” forbade “taking pleasure in the more lascivious modes” and Plato “prescribes that boys should NOT be trained in all modes” of music. Compare this with plainchant music which rebelliously used all the modes to convey the requisite range of emotions found in scripture. The fact is that one of the staunchest supporters of reviving Greek and Roman restrictions on music was the older music theorist Artusi, who attacked Monteverdi in his thesis “Of the Imperfections of Modern Music." The fights of Monteverdi vs. Artusi, and Lusitano vs. Vicentino should make it clear that the young musicians who founded the Baroque era stood firmly against the government influenced policies that would have constricted emotional expression in music by reviving Greek and Roman ideas. (See the dialogues of Socrates in Plato’s Republic to learn the political motivation behind restricting music).

  • @johnsimca7093
    @johnsimca7093 Год назад

    Mrs Modlish taught me this

  • @davidmdyer838
    @davidmdyer838 Год назад +9

    I've never heard anyone say Monteverdi invented opera, ever.

  • @MileyCyprus2023
    @MileyCyprus2023 Год назад

    0:00

  • @MonkeyBars1
    @MonkeyBars1 Год назад +2

    Whoa he looks exactly like Prince but Italian

  • @VallinSFAS
    @VallinSFAS Год назад +1

    Soooo...as "humanistic expressionism", opera was never intended to be the "classical (academic) high art" form as it has been regarded for the last 200 years, right?

    • @lauraservidei5728
      @lauraservidei5728 4 месяца назад

      Opera became a "high art" after WW2. Before, it was a popular art form.

  • @yoavshati
    @yoavshati Год назад

    3:15 ruclips.net/video/lgAt8GGKbUA/видео.html It's probably not Monteverdi who coined that term

  • @olavtryggvason1194
    @olavtryggvason1194 Год назад +1

    Was there any operatic style before L'Orfeo ? The single previous surviving attempt is boring endless declamation, not opera. Orfeo at least contains a few tunes which can be sung in a living way and which are an early form of opera aria. But also Orfeo is very much declamation which requires an audience that can understand the lyrics in Italian.

  • @mr88cet
    @mr88cet Год назад +2

    Excellent history! Thanks.
    Who wrote the first opera ultimately depends upon at what point you call what the composers wrote, “opera.” Although I certainly wouldn’t agree, some might even argue that opera didn’t fully emerge until, not Monteverdi, but Verdi - that all opera before then was but a “pale imitation,” so to speak.

    • @cliffgaither
      @cliffgaither Год назад +2

      I guess it all depends on the reaction of the audiences & critics ? Verdi was a great composer and his music had a richness and melodic lines and dramatic voices and equally dramatic music, that surpassed Monteverdi ... but the latter's music could be very calming and musical ... but after Vivaldi and Handel and the magnificent voices and music of their time, the above statement about "paleness" has never applied to those geniuses of composition and the super-human, twilight zone voices of Vivaldi and Handel that left the audiences of their time ... trying to find adjectives to describe the phenomenal vocal-sounds of the castratri and females of that period.

    • @mr88cet
      @mr88cet Год назад +1

      @@cliffgaither, yeah, probably largely true. Again, I personally disagree that Verdi “made” opera, so to speak, but some people do. I find it hard to imagine anybody claiming that, for example, Don Giovanni, was not an exceptional work of opera.

    • @cliffgaither
      @cliffgaither Год назад +1

      @Gary Morrison :: Everybody has their favorite composer but that Verdi comment was a new one for me. I think you would agree, only history matters ... chronological order ...

    • @cliffgaither
      @cliffgaither Год назад +1

      @Gary Morrison :: Yeah ! Mozart ?!! The Don was his masterpiece ! I prefer Vivaldi and Handel, but those two masters of opera would have been overwhelmed by Mozart's gifts.

    • @Quotenwagnerianer
      @Quotenwagnerianer Год назад +3

      "some might even argue that opera didn’t fully emerge until, not Monteverdi, but Verdi - that all opera before then was but a “pale imitation,” so to speak."
      Then some might be completely off the mark...

  • @tristramshandy9326
    @tristramshandy9326 Год назад

    Nice try, but in Italian it's "seconda pratica" or "seconda prattica". Italian was a rather fluid set of dialects in the 18th Century, so there were often variations, but never 'seconda practica'.

  • @MileyCyprus2023
    @MileyCyprus2023 Год назад

    0:0

  • @rondunn4336
    @rondunn4336 Год назад +2

    Opera singers. No dynamics except loud and louder.

    • @armandosanchez4978
      @armandosanchez4978 Год назад

      Yeah tell that to Montserrat Caballe, Giuseppe di Stefano, Maria Callas or Renata Tebaldi.

    • @jennifer1329
      @jennifer1329 Год назад +2

      @@armandosanchez4978 or Arleen Auger, Leontyne Price, etc. etc.

  • @keouine
    @keouine Год назад

    Not as happy with this vid as I am normally. Effort to put up big words like "Relationship music to text" ok Give us some examples. Then "DIFFERENT TIMBRES that represent each character." No sample music or text. Instead he dashes forward to "atmosphere specific to scene." yay some brief examples !Other timesI we get a claim/conclusion and just have to take his word.

  • @peidaer
    @peidaer Месяц назад

    first ever? do your reseaech dude! fake news here

  • @DonVueltaMorales
    @DonVueltaMorales 8 месяцев назад

    Terrible visuals. "Act Two" ... where the 19th-c flute and bassoon join the violin. Yeah. Right. All you kids should know that many of these visuals and illustrations are completely bogus.

  • @seanchadwick9036
    @seanchadwick9036 Год назад

    You’re only looking at the history of western Opera, eastern Opera from Asian countries predates the creation of opera in Europe.

  • @graychang-ida
    @graychang-ida Год назад +1

    Well opera origin is not as important as COVID origin:)

    • @gaopinghu7332
      @gaopinghu7332 Год назад +5

      How do these correlate at all?

    • @graychang-ida
      @graychang-ida Год назад

      @@gaopinghu7332 You are logical man. But, you overlook the :)

    • @anewman1976
      @anewman1976 Год назад +4

      @@graychang-ida Could you just answering the effing question? What has origins of opera got to do with a virus 4 centuries later???

    • @graychang-ida
      @graychang-ida Год назад

      @@anewman1976 How does a 1918 flu pandemic start? It is a mystery! So, does COVID origin:)

    • @brankobulovic167
      @brankobulovic167 Год назад

      @@anewman1976 I think it (Gray Chang's original comment) was meant to be a pun (in a form of a completely nonsensical comment) - simple as that
      BTW I only read to the end of the comments because I wanted to see whether anyone had posted something i would agree with - that I find Monteverdi's music excruciatingly boring, but i did not want to create a cause for comments on my taste and listening preferences

  • @camillopellegatta581
    @camillopellegatta581 Год назад

    Bravo !!!

  • @Ukepa
    @Ukepa Год назад +3

    excellent history of one of the most little discussed uses for music

  • @MileyCyprus2023
    @MileyCyprus2023 Год назад

    𝙼𝚎𝚊𝚗𝚒𝚗𝚐 1609

  • @lauterunvollkommenheit4344
    @lauterunvollkommenheit4344 7 месяцев назад +1

    It takes so little to pronounce Italian names properly. It's painful to hear them butchered.

  • @eugenebraig413
    @eugenebraig413 Год назад +3

    I enjoyed. However, for what it's worth, I was never taught that L'Orfeo was the first opera, but rather that it was the first *great* opera.

  • @hauthot287
    @hauthot287 Год назад +1

    L’orfeo will always remain as one of my favorite operas

  • @cerracarmine
    @cerracarmine 28 дней назад

    Wonderful

  • @MileyCyprus2023
    @MileyCyprus2023 Год назад

    𝙲𝚞𝚛𝚎 9:00

  • @hungrymikepencetd5686
    @hungrymikepencetd5686 Год назад

    Anything before Orfeo werent operas, they were cute guesses.

  • @Chompchompyerded
    @Chompchompyerded Год назад +1

    Heh. I know all this, and I learned it as an undergraduate music student.
    Still, very good stuff for the novice. I can't think of anything I'd have changed if I were presenting this to a music appreciation class.

  • @MileyCyprus2023
    @MileyCyprus2023 Год назад

    𝚎𝚟𝚘𝚕𝚞𝚝𝚒𝚘𝚗 𝚘𝚏 𝚖𝚞𝚜𝚒𝚌# 6:32

    • @MileyCyprus2023
      @MileyCyprus2023 Год назад

      # 𝚎𝚟𝚘𝚕𝚞𝚝𝚒𝚘𝚗 𝚘𝚏 𝚖𝚞𝚜𝚒𝚌 6:32