The reason you need to press the GenLock button when switching between legacy AppleII video modes and the newer IIGS Super High-Res modes is because the video pixel clock is changing from 14 MHz to 16 MHz. Hblank timing is also slightly different between HGR and SHR modes.
I wonder if it switching video modes is what triggers the genlock need to press. I think the Apple IIGS starts up in text mode and then when GS/OS is loaded, it switches into 640 mode. IIGS several modes: * Text Mode (40 Columns) - 2 Colors (Selectible in Control Panel) * Text Mode (80 Columns) - 2 Colors (Selectible in Control Panel) * Low Res (40x48) - 16 Colors * Double Low Res (80x48) - 16 Colors * High Res (280 x 192) in 6 Colors With Pixel Placement Limitations * Double High Res (560 x 192) in Monochrome (or 140x192 in 16 colors with Pixel Placement Limitations) * Super High Res 320 Mode (320 x 200) - 16 Colors Selectible from a Pallette of 4096 Colors * Super High Res 640 Mode (640 x 200) - 4 Colors, Selectible from a Pallette of 4096 Colors. There are some additional tricks to get more colors out of the Super High Res Modes: * Dithering can be added to 640 mode to get 16 colors in it. * There are scan line palette swapping using the VGC and some clever programming that use the Super High Res Modes and additional CPU cycles to allow the IIGS to display up to 64, 256, 800, or even 3200 colors simultaneously with scan line color limitations.
when the IIgs is accelerated to 8MHz as God and Steve Wozniak intended, then its THE ultimate Apple II - unaccelerated it is merely Steve Jobs' gravest sin
Regarding using the vise to clamp IDC connectors, I would have obtained some thin pieces of softwood instead. Not sure what all you have down in Oz besides eucalyptus, but it would be easier to use wood to line the jaws (you could probably even take the metal jaws off and replace them with homemade wood ones for when you need to do this kind of clamping work).
Maybe investing in a dedicated card or developing one would mitigate some of the issues but I have to admit, the screen real estate is much larger than the stock display would have been which could be a positive.
Very nice and clean mod! I need to get into the RGB2HDMI business too. I have an Amiga that I need it on. I should make a video on that soon I think. :D
Hats off to you Sir. That was a neatly done and impressive mod that worked very well. (Looks at IIgs) Naw I'll stick to using mu Commodore 1081 plus my home made SCART lead :-D
You need a monitor capable of doing 15KHz video and a simple custom cable. I have an old Dell 24" monitor that does it and also my new AOC adaptive sync gaming monitors can do it.
First, I love your video. I have watched the video at least four times to get information. I do have a question on how you figured out your pin 14 on the cable which you have marked as VSYNC. I have been looking at the circuit diagrams of the 01 and 03 IIGS and I have my doubts about your cabling when it has to do with pin 14. What you are connecting to with pin 14 is FLIP6 which only runs the A6 address lines which connect to the memory modules. Could you possibly have wanted the exact opposite pin on the VGC for RGB? Could someone have counted from the back rather than the front of the motherboard? Those RGB pins (20,21,22,23) might have a VSYNC on them? Plus I am not sure if you need another line with VSYNC. The RGBtoHDMI can take composite sync? Pin 6 on the VGC is supposed to be composite sync which carries both V and H sync. So is pin 14 really needed? Where did you get your logic for connecting to pin 14? Have you tried the RGB2HDMI without pin 14? I guess sometime this weekend I will be seeing if it is necessary. I am doing all my work without actually doing any soldering on the motherboard. I have both ROM 01 and ROM 03 IIGS and on the ROM03 the VGC is not socketed and as such you can put a socket over the top of the VGC and get all the connections directly from the VGC. Here goes nothing.
I verified that pin 14 is not right. You should put both HSYNC and and VSYNC on the same composite location. I do not have the gunlock problem with this setup wither. On the ROM 03 IIgs I was able to do all the changes with no soldering. I have not been able to find a good and cheap plug for the ROM 01. Still looking though. Might want to try the change. It might fix your problem. Of course, I am doing this on the ROM 03 and the ROM 01 might have the problem no matter the sync location.
Great video! I was in the same boat last year, IIgs with no monitor. I ended up attaching the RGB2HDMI to the power supply and left it internal. Then ran a HDMI cable and USB (Booti) out the back. Making me 2nd guess my set up ;) No battery replacement yet? *gasp*
I did consider mounting it internally, but then I'd want to also bring all four buttons to the rear + I use my RGBtoHDMI on several machines - so external was the final decision.
Nice mod! I was wondering, though, why the RGB2HDMI couldn’t simply be connected to the original RGB port? Does the mainboard connections provide TTL level signals, so that you don’t need the additional board in the RGB2HDMI?
@@kazdean Yes I was going to comment on this too - the original output is 15khz analog RGB and actually looks very good on a supported monitor with just a passive adapter cable. My Commodore 1084S required a resistor in the adapter to combine H/V into composite sync but that's it. While having a pure digital output like this mod gives is probably great for capture / streaming, it sure does require a lot of soldering compared to wiring up a simple adapter cable and using a 15khz-supporting VGA monitor or any monitor that works with an Amiga. Being American I don't know enough about it to be sure but my guess is that you can probably passively hook up SCART using a similar method and it would look pretty good too.
Great video and you're right, that monitor isn't a great fit for the IIgs..... I think a VGA CRT monitor will look great for that setup. An HDMI to VGA converter with the RGB to HDMI adapter works quite well and this in turn can be plugged into a VGA CRT monitor. I've done this before, I even use my iMac G3 DV as a CRT monitor for my CoCo 2 with this method. Imagine an iMac G3 as a monitor for a IIgs......
My 4 IIGS outlived my Apple Watch for 35 years. Even my apple Color monitor works better than the watch! And it’s not recapped yet!. How apple is making less and less reliable products every year that passes. It’s a Woz machine, all the other stuff managed by jobs and his crew are crapier every day that passes. Eventually I’ll get my hands on a apple IIe! Apple II for ever
Wow-that’s a lot of work! I’d be afraid to try it-but you made it look easy!
I love your non-destructive mods!
That's brilliant because it makes purchasing a IIGS so much more desirable when it has no monitor with it. Awesome video. Thank you.
And now with the applesquezzer it will reach were mankind never was before.
@@lst141 i have one but waiting for dma support then it will be king
That's slick! I had to wait months before I stumbled across a IIgs monitor and it's as orange as a pumpkin from UV. Well done!
Nice job on this one. It's one of the more difficult ones to mod for the RGBtoHDMI.
Looks great! I’ve an RGBTOHDMI on another system and it’s such a good picture. Maybe my IIgs needs a treat!
The reason you need to press the GenLock button when switching between legacy AppleII video modes and the newer IIGS Super High-Res modes is because the video pixel clock is changing from 14 MHz to 16 MHz. Hblank timing is also slightly different between HGR and SHR modes.
Yup. I figured it was something like that.
Thanks for this video. I actually paused it to take a screenshot of the points to solder to and it really helped when I did this for my IIgs.
Cheers. Yeah, I found the list on GitHub to be a little confusing. So I’m glad the diagram helped.
I wonder if it switching video modes is what triggers the genlock need to press. I think the Apple IIGS starts up in text mode and then when GS/OS is loaded, it switches into 640 mode. IIGS several modes:
* Text Mode (40 Columns) - 2 Colors (Selectible in Control Panel)
* Text Mode (80 Columns) - 2 Colors (Selectible in Control Panel)
* Low Res (40x48) - 16 Colors
* Double Low Res (80x48) - 16 Colors
* High Res (280 x 192) in 6 Colors With Pixel Placement Limitations
* Double High Res (560 x 192) in Monochrome (or 140x192 in 16 colors with Pixel Placement Limitations)
* Super High Res 320 Mode (320 x 200) - 16 Colors Selectible from a Pallette of 4096 Colors
* Super High Res 640 Mode (640 x 200) - 4 Colors, Selectible from a Pallette of 4096 Colors.
There are some additional tricks to get more colors out of the Super High Res Modes:
* Dithering can be added to 640 mode to get 16 colors in it.
* There are scan line palette swapping using the VGC and some clever programming that use the Super High Res Modes and additional CPU cycles to allow the IIGS to display up to 64, 256, 800, or even 3200 colors simultaneously with scan line color limitations.
when the IIgs is accelerated to 8MHz as God and Steve Wozniak intended, then its THE ultimate Apple II - unaccelerated it is merely Steve Jobs' gravest sin
Regarding using the vise to clamp IDC connectors, I would have obtained some thin pieces of softwood instead. Not sure what all you have down in Oz besides eucalyptus, but it would be easier to use wood to line the jaws (you could probably even take the metal jaws off and replace them with homemade wood ones for when you need to do this kind of clamping work).
I really need to get onboard with this RGBtoHDMI thing. Is there anything it can't do? 😁
Maybe investing in a dedicated card or developing one would mitigate some of the issues but I have to admit, the screen real estate is much larger than the stock display would have been which could be a positive.
Very nice and clean mod! I need to get into the RGB2HDMI business too. I have an Amiga that I need it on. I should make a video on that soon I think. :D
If it’s a 500 or 2000, there are some good RGB2HDMI boards available. I have one in a 500 and it’s awesome
@@MrLurchsThings It's a 500 😁
This video got you a new subscriber. I really enjoyed it!
Great work!👍
Cashies 4x3 monitor for the win!
I have no monitor either, just using composite. I have been using the Booti card with the IIGS
Works great.
Is this the same on the ROM3 IIgs?
Nicely done :)
Hats off to you Sir. That was a neatly done and impressive mod that worked very well.
(Looks at IIgs)
Naw I'll stick to using mu Commodore 1081 plus my home made SCART lead :-D
Good on ya Jase!
maybe get a nice white 4:3 LCD and an HDMI to DVI adapter
Hello
Is this applicable to rom03 apple IIGS?
Nice video, I tried it myself and want to ask what firmware version you use and which profile you choose (Apple IIc TTL with IIGS Subprofile?)
Great work! I love the IIgs, but it’s VGA output is different from other computers in that you can’t just hook up a VGA monitor to it.
You need a monitor capable of doing 15KHz video and a simple custom cable. I have an old Dell 24" monitor that does it and also my new AOC adaptive sync gaming monitors can do it.
First, I love your video. I have watched the video at least four times to get information. I do have a question on how you figured out your pin 14 on the cable which you have marked as VSYNC. I have been looking at the circuit diagrams of the 01 and 03 IIGS and I have my doubts about your cabling when it has to do with pin 14. What you are connecting to with pin 14 is FLIP6 which only runs the A6 address lines which connect to the memory modules. Could you possibly have wanted the exact opposite pin on the VGC for RGB? Could someone have counted from the back rather than the front of the motherboard? Those RGB pins (20,21,22,23) might have a VSYNC on them? Plus I am not sure if you need another line with VSYNC. The RGBtoHDMI can take composite sync? Pin 6 on the VGC is supposed to be composite sync which carries both V and H sync. So is pin 14 really needed? Where did you get your logic for connecting to pin 14? Have you tried the RGB2HDMI without pin 14? I guess sometime this weekend I will be seeing if it is necessary. I am doing all my work without actually doing any soldering on the motherboard. I have both ROM 01 and ROM 03 IIGS and on the ROM03 the VGC is not socketed and as such you can put a socket over the top of the VGC and get all the connections directly from the VGC. Here goes nothing.
I verified that pin 14 is not right. You should put both HSYNC and and VSYNC on the same composite location. I do not have the gunlock problem with this setup wither. On the ROM 03 IIgs I was able to do all the changes with no soldering. I have not been able to find a good and cheap plug for the ROM 01. Still looking though. Might want to try the change. It might fix your problem. Of course, I am doing this on the ROM 03 and the ROM 01 might have the problem no matter the sync location.
Great video! I was in the same boat last year, IIgs with no monitor. I ended up attaching the RGB2HDMI to the power supply and left it internal. Then ran a HDMI cable and USB (Booti) out the back. Making me 2nd guess my set up ;) No battery replacement yet? *gasp*
I did consider mounting it internally, but then I'd want to also bring all four buttons to the rear + I use my RGBtoHDMI on several machines - so external was the final decision.
Nice mod! I was wondering, though, why the RGB2HDMI couldn’t simply be connected to the original RGB port? Does the mainboard connections provide TTL level signals, so that you don’t need the additional board in the RGB2HDMI?
I believe it’s something like that. When I went researching, this is the way it’s done on the IIgs.
The outputs are analog RGB, all I did for my GS is make a custom cable and use a vga monitor that can sync to 15khz video
@@kazdean I did the same, except it uses a Scart connector to connect an RGB capable TV.
@@kazdean Yes I was going to comment on this too - the original output is 15khz analog RGB and actually looks very good on a supported monitor with just a passive adapter cable. My Commodore 1084S required a resistor in the adapter to combine H/V into composite sync but that's it. While having a pure digital output like this mod gives is probably great for capture / streaming, it sure does require a lot of soldering compared to wiring up a simple adapter cable and using a 15khz-supporting VGA monitor or any monitor that works with an Amiga. Being American I don't know enough about it to be sure but my guess is that you can probably passively hook up SCART using a similar method and it would look pretty good too.
Why not reproductvnishida device under licence?
Awesome, dood!
This ice interesting, but it wasn't clear to me why you couldn't use the existing monitor connection? I'm sure there's a reason!
Great video and you're right, that monitor isn't a great fit for the IIgs..... I think a VGA CRT monitor will look great for that setup. An HDMI to VGA converter with the RGB to HDMI adapter works quite well and this in turn can be plugged into a VGA CRT monitor. I've done this before, I even use my iMac G3 DV as a CRT monitor for my CoCo 2 with this method. Imagine an iMac G3 as a monitor for a IIgs......
I see you have the "Woz" version of the II GS, does this mod differ for the other rom versions of the motherboard?
I don’t think so. As much as there are various revisions on the IIgs mobo, from my understanding, the video side that this latches onto is consistent.
With all of these vintage systems being supported by the RGB to HDMI project, I wonder if there will ever be a need to get an OSSC or Retrotink ever.
The RGBtoHDMI isn't quick enough for color composite or VGA so we will still need other devices for those video signals for a while.
@@RetroHackShack Are you thinking composite input or VGA to RGB to HDMI?
I don't believe the timings are exactly the same on the IIgs mode and IIe mode.
Ozito tools. Bunnings! Did you at least get a sausage?
My 4 IIGS outlived my Apple Watch for 35 years. Even my apple Color monitor works better than the watch! And it’s not recapped yet!. How apple is making less and less reliable products every year that passes.
It’s a Woz machine, all the other stuff managed by jobs and his crew are crapier every day that passes.
Eventually I’ll get my hands on a apple IIe!
Apple II for ever