@@baranoid visual studio code isn't open source. The base project is under mit license but the version distributed by Microsoft is proprietary with telemetry and stuff
That sounds like a bug. Find is supposed to notify you if it found something and not hunt you down. Would you like to share your experience and discuss with our team to make the product better. Here is my calendly. /S
Fleet is a game-changer - for existing JetBrains users. Especially multi-lingual developers who find themselves switching between Rider, Webstorm and PyCharm for example. There is this strange cross-language intellisense in JetBrains IDEs that allow you to do smart JavaScript stuff in the non-Webstorm IDEs but that's only to accommodate full-stack development. I think the goal of fleet is certainly not to kill VS Code, it's to unify JetBrains IDEs into one frontend powered by the many language servers on offer by JetBrains.
But then where are the features of all of the other IDEs? I dont know man it does seem to me like they are going for something more minimalistic that their other products here...
2:47 "VS Code users are more concerned with how the editor looks when someone spies on their laptop in starbucks than intellisense" omg what a line lol
Yeah, that's why we should use intellij idea over VS Code (idea first release was 2001, vs code was 2015) :) (Just an example of why that age argument isn't that good, nor is the inverse of it) New shouldn't = bad, nor should Old = good, use what is best for you, I use IntelliJ IDEA not because it's been around for 20 years, I use it because it suits my needs and works better than VS Codium in 99% of uses in my experience with both
I do it unironically because I'm lazy to change EDITOR= to vs code and thus when I do git commit from console, it launches vim (I find that it's easier to type git commit in terminal than to switch tabs in vs code)
@@nickw656 yeah it's a pain. you have to be in normal mode to copy text, and insert mode to paste 🙄 I also use the vim clipboard register for larger blocks of text. "*y to copy, "*p to paste
Thank you for taking a level-headed approach to this lol. I cannot believe all the absolutely explosive takes I've seen about this editor in the 24ish hours it has been available
Год назад+1
To be fair, a lot of people have had access to the private preview as well
Fleet looks more like a replacement for jetbrains' own products. Could easily condense an ecosystem of half a dozen apps into one, making development easier for jetbrains in the process
Honestly that's what I thought it was going to be. Most of the current JetBrains IDEs are very similar, even using the same infrastructure (like shared plugins). There's really no need to have an IDE for every single technology, just do what VS is doing.
@@khatdubell Most people who go headfirst into the jetbrains ecosystem just by the complete pack. Unpopular opinion, I like having different IDE's with different profiles for different languages. My window breakdown looks very different for node as it does for python. I *ALSO* like that they have the same core, so if I want to use a package.json as a launcher for ansible, nobody bats an eyelash. I'm not sure how I feel about fleet, personally. I've only spent a little while with it so far.
I actually think Fireship missed this one a bit on Jetbrains' intent. Jetbrains is getting deeper and deeper into this whole Gateway ecosystem that they think will revolutionize everything. It definitely makes life easier to have a guaranteed homogenous dev environment without any sacrifice. But Gateway is mediocre because it's ultimately an ugly amalgom of X-forwarding and a backloaded thin client on the IDE. Fleet is thin-client forward. You name a remote environment (their preference is for you to use Space, obviously) and it does everything and provides a better experience. Whether this will be a success or not, I think, depends on the next few iterations of Space. Right now, Space has some glaring issues, like a dev instance using up all your damn CPU time, and Jetbrains being either unwilling or just not yet ready to release seamless localization of the dev environment through a VM. Ultimately I *DO* think they'll consider replacing their IDE's with Fleet if that proves to be the financially better option, but I don't think it's the plan right now. I'm a lifer paying for their "full package" every year because of all my various contracting gigs. I highly doubt they'd charge me nearly as much for Fleet. I've met no fewer than 100 people who sub to the same plan.
Not a fair comparison right? Your comparing a preview product to a free years going tool. Sounds like a not fair fight and Fleet still doing strong, imagine when it it actually ready to rumble. I might switch to it since it launches faster for me then vsc (prob cause you do not need 1000 plugins) and I like to have all tools in one place. We'll see where this is gonna end
I'll probably never move away from VS Code. But I trust JetBrains to make a good editor that will work great for people who are already in their ecosystem, and If I ever get a chance I would love to use it as well. For the people calling it a VS Code killer, I think they have no clue what either of these software actually are.
You only need the launcher for Fleet during the preview phase. They mentioned recently that that requirement will be removed once its out of open preview.
It may be a problem for windows users, where users love executing raw exes as setups, but it's a blessing for Linux users. Toolbox is far easier to use than manually unpacking the tar.gz from JetBrains. Updates are also a breeze, and everything JetBrains on the computer can be managed with one app.
@@evryon1810 I always liked that it's optional and I think that's the correct approach to take for companies who offer a lot of different software products that are often, but not always, used alongside each other. I hate it when I just need one application from a company but have to install some launcher/manager anyway because that's the only way to install any of them.
It’s just shiny object syndrome. VsCode is considered bloated by people who use terminal based text editors and swear everyone else needs to do the same. VsCode is fine and honestly ideal for the majority of people.
My experience working on huge php project in vscode compared to phpstorm is pretty terrible. And the memory footprint after you add all the features phpstorm has is *huge*. My 16GB of ram was crying for help.
My second project will be a full-blown ASCII/Extended ASCII IDE. It'll have the startup time of IntelliJ/CLion and the features of Notepad. Like any Jetbrains IDE, it'll require a special build systems to work decently, but you'll need to download and configure the correct plugins yourself with Lisp. Once you've successfully programmed the Lisp plugin, you'll be able to use my macro language to be able to customize the Mavel configuration language to compile your Java code to bytecode for the runtime to interpret it on the underlying virtual machine. To help with the complexity of writing a statement, it'll make sure to show warnings long before you've completed typing your current word just so you know that you might be wrong. Also, since moving files around might also be confusing for your non-existing colleagues, it'll make sure to completely fail with any Intellisense so that you know that you have to start over from scratch. Many think LTS is good, but this IDE will make sure to roll out new upgrades as soon we make a change that compiles. Even if it might break your project, it's still mostly worth it for the largest audience, since we've made the progress bar to feature Nyan cat. Lastly, we made sure to fix all key configurations. Many standards have been made, but it felt reasonable to make a new standard that you could learn because it seemed better. If you take a week to learn them, then you'll be able to quit your program faster than you're able to say "VIM, Vi IMproved terminal text editor".
I used it a bit a few months ago and didn't return. I LOVE some stuff from JetBrains (particularly their code formatting configuration and rules), but this needs a lot more work. One thing though is we're comparing Fleet at day -200 to VS Code at day 2.7k. It took a while for VS Code to get more memory efficient, get all the plugins, etc... So as long as JetBrains keeps working on Fleet, I know it'll improve and get to a point where I'll want to try it again.
I was disappointed, but only because I'm used to getting so much value out of IntelliJ and its third party plugins. Fleet has a great architecture, but it is far too young for now.
I’ve honestly never had problems with vs code and in terms of performance it’s always been lightning fast for most languages and projects I’ve used it on.
I use Android Studio and IntelliJ on the regular. I know Fleet isn't for those who regularly use VSCode. It is for people like me who are usually working in a full blown IDE and occasionally have to edit JS or similar projects. I always find VSCode quite lacking in its default configuration and I don't use it enough to configure plugins. Fleet's smart mode is exactly what I need.
I definitely agree that they're going for a different audience. As a Linux user as much as I do fat shame Electron apps, it has to be said that without it, those apps probably wouldn't have Linux releases, or at least some wouldn't.
Jetbrains has always gone for a different audience. The mentally deficient that think something is better because it's put behind a paywall. Considering how trash their products actually are. I wouldn't use them even if they were all free.
I always preferred JetBrains IDEs over VSCode. I gave a few week trial multiple times to VSCode through my career, but I always went back. I'm using only with cloud editors and as a notepad replacement.
So what's the general opinion on lapce as the next "VS Code killer"? That one also doesn't use Electron, but is fully open source and aims for speed, and supports plugins written in any language that compiles to WASI.
@@skejeton yes, its has bugs. Its in pre-alpha. You cant expect a fully polished product that is in pre-alpha. I think it could potentially compete with vscode
@@afunkymonk7107 true but that's exactly what makes it not a viable vscode replacement yet, sans the pre alpha label, implementation is what matters in the end. the new version is definitely better than the one I tried half a year ago though
@@skejeton VS Code also integrates well with WSL using VS Code Remote. This is a killer feature in my opinion since you can run a VS Code instance (its backend) on WSL, container, or even SSH, while the UI rendered on your machine.
Find feature is revolutionary. Real out-of-the-box thinking there! Gone are the days when you had to scan a document line-by-line to find "hello world"
@@chadcat7 the reason of why many people use vscode over neovim or emacs is because it's a plug and play experience. You don't need to mess with your config file or anything like that
Always nice to get some VSCode love here after watching so much Primagen stuff lately. It's pretty amazing to watch him fly around that thing but honestly, I just want to click on the things I want.
After a year of NeoVim, I checked VSCode again for fun. The arrow keys and the mouse were so soothing. It did feel less healthy, and I adopted a mentality that made me check the manual immediately like that's the obvious thing to do, but VSCode is so soothing.
Please, I will fix one small thing. IntelliJ IDEA is actually a complete platform that's made for everything. You can develop Java, JavaScript, Python, PHP, Rust, Scala, Kotlin etc.. in one IDE. PyCharm , WebStorm, PhpStorm and others are built on top of the IntelliJ itself. IntelliJ is built in Java and Kotlin also uses JVM, meaning it's going to eat memory, but that can be expected on JVM. Otherwise, really nice video :)
Indeed, even if it's 2x better in every way (cpu/memory/plugins/..), even then, most ppl would choose the free alternative which is perfectly adequate.
@@typingcat Because it won't be. It'll be a recurring monthly subscription and not enough people are going to pay for it when there's a perfectly good free option
Devs are just gearheads. We are all excited for shiny new tools, long before there exists a use case for them. Nothing wrong with that. I'm testing Fleet now and... it's nice. Starts up pretty quick. I usually open VSC in the terminal with the "code ./directory" command and Fleet installed a "fleet ./directory" command to open a project automatically. Has similar start time. I like the UI and the shortcuts are actually familiar and not the god awful mess that Jetbrains has their customers to accustomed to. I will say, in your IntelliJ screenshot, there's not actually that much going on; in fact there's less buttons than the Fleet screenshot before it. But I agree, Fleet looks sooooo much better. The homogonous colors alone are much more pleasant, Darkula looks very dated at this point. I adore the concept of how all editor addons like the file explorer, git integration, and terminal are all just tabs that can be moved between any of the 3 panels (actually 4 if you include the editor panel which you can shift tabs betew); I do wish VSC had that. Also underrated UI quality of life improvement: our screens are wider than they are tall. So let vertical panels go from top to bottom and shrink and grow the terminal at will (which is what Fleet does). Somebody really thought about that and I appreciate them for it. Also the preferences opening up in the editor panel as a tab is so much better. It appears that they also have a settings.json file but I can't figure out how to use it; it doesn't come prepopulated with anything even though I've modified preferences. But a JSON file that I can copy & paste is so much better than the exported settings.jar files that Jetbrains used to have; the security implications of that always scared the crap out of me. But it's that indexing time that could be a real dealbreaker. I cannot understand why that takes so long in comparison VSC. But I hope VSC can learn a little bit from Fleet like Fleet has obviously learned from VSC. Also I'm like 80% sure it's pronounced Sky-uh.
Once performance/indexing speeds improve and plugins/themes are added, fleet will be a real contender. In the first public preview, I doubt jetbrains really meant for anyone to start using fleet as a full-time ide, it's more of a "we're doing a thing" showcase imo
@@Anonymous4045 that's what it feels like but it does feel a little limited for how long the private beta period was was. The potential for me full timing this was way better when they first announced it. At this point? It's a bit of a long shot... but there's little things that I really really like about it. It would be interesting to see a contendor that did something like forking VSC (or VSCodium) and make some real progressive changes to the UI in this direction. Like just making everything a tab container and everything into tabs. I started playing with VSC in ways I hadn't normally after trying Fleet and I see the potential that this behavior might be possible without much change. The terminal tabs can be dragged from the bottom right where they're declared (if you have multiple terminals open), into the main editing window, for instance.
As a student, the only thing I was looking forward to was the fact that people claimed that unlike vscode, Fleet would be more light weight. Which would be very useful for students like me who only have a laptop from 2019 with 8gigs of ram, since convincing your parents to buy you a new laptop tends to be *very* hard. After using Fleet for the first time, however. I am utterly convinced we will never get a lightweight competitor of vscode.
I never got on the VScode bandwagon I find it to be very annoying and lacks basic ass features and everything seems to explode all the time. As a student I always had jetbrains stuff for free and that's what I used, it was overkill but it atleast my shit got done. I'm really hopeful for this one
They're going to have to do a _lot_ of feature shoehorning if it's ever gonna stand half a chance of replacing VS Code and/or Nvim for me. Given I am one of the aforementioned poor people, a paid replacement for free tools I find utterly brilliant to use is always gonna be fighting uphill.
@@PravinDahal Oh that's definitely not the case, only IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm have community editions. You can get the other ones for free by using the beta versions but those are very buggy.
@@SKBotNL yeah but they're also some of their most popular products. If some stars align I can see the same happening for fleet as there's definitely been a lot of hype around it. But yeah it'll be hard considering Microsoft doesn't rely on vscode as a business (even though it has telemetry) whole jetbrains main business is IDEs and stuff
I tested with the same project: Pycharm - 1.6gb VSCode - 550mb Fleet - 2.8gb I think they have a lot work to do before 'fleet' becoming a decent IDE, not just because of ram consuming, but the lack of resources and usability. Btw I use a lot of jetbrains products.
I am huge fan of jetbrains !! I use pycharm for my professional python. But for C++/C# I will always go for VS/VScode ❤️❤️.. But if jetbrains makes a ecosystem out of it's IDEs and tools, it will be a cool move.
Jetbrains normally provides previews only through its toolbox. It is likely that the Toolbox will not be a requirement upon release. It seems that Fleet will only require payment for exclusive features; this means it can still rival VSC if its non-exclusive features are as good as VSC.
@@talesvinicius598 Since it seems to be about remote services, I don't think they can be replicated by free plugins. Such features often require powerful servers which cost a lot of money.
Very well said! The next editor I'm rooting for is lapce. That one will probably stay a niche prouct for rust extremists like me though. It is already very promising, similar to VS Code but much lighter and faster and font rendering looks sharper I think.
VS Code's font rendering is perfectly good on macOS but always pissed me off on Windows... Chromium's font rendering is really unpleasant in general IMO as it's way too light compared to the actual font most of the time and there's no way to set it to greyscale if you prefer that. (I personally happen to be a big fan of greyscale font rendering.) Edge is a little bit better in this regard as it respects the user's ClearType contrast settings as set in the tuner, but Electron doesn't do this it seems.
@@luciascarlet Interesting, I always thought it would be rather slightly to bold and blurry, especially in dark mode. I'm using vs code mostly on linux though. Maybe it also depends on the font. I'm actually planing to get a higher DPI monitor mainly because text looks so much better thenñ
@@flyingsquirrel3271 Yeah, I also use a high DPI monitor (5K) on my Mac but Windows and sometimes Linux scaling are too fussy for me to really want to bother with on my PC so I use a 1440p monitor there. Linux font rendering is also a lot better in general though, including subpixel. It's specifically Windows's implementation of subpixel rendering that I really dislike, as it ends up looking oversharpened.
I remember when VS Code was the new kid on the block. Atom and Sublime Text were fine but VS Code really did make the plugin ecosystem better. Still, Vim is better 😂
Personally I've been using Rider as my main C# and my main Web development tool for years and I love it. I'm not really sure if I'd even feel the desire to use Fleet... But I'm happy it exists
As a C# dev myself, I was excited when I heard about an JetBrains' Visual Studio alternative. Once I heard Rider was a paid for product, I stopped caring about it, and never gave it a second thought. Alternative, paid for IDE's is such a turn off.
Intellijidea is even inferiour to vscode, so we'll all be waiting. When a project is open source you can't beat it, usually, especially in this case because anyone can contribute, and I don't have to work for your company, and nor are all the apis and functions obfuscated, or always kept out of the loop in terms of changes.
Me using Sublime Text since v2 and now v4 the latest version with new LSP models for code assist, would like to say FVCK Intellij IDEA. Just change the product name to StupiJ IDEA.
100% the one thing that made me just close down Fleet and ignore it was the lack of VIM. I don't know how you can have a usable IDE that doesn't support it.
At this point it's pretty hard to beat VSCode. I'm mainly using it for typescript, and I'm using it pretty much since release. The amount of improvements, and polish that went into it over time will take a long time to catch up on.
VSCode support refactoring? I feel Intellij better in performance too. Maybe because VSCode is a Electron App. If Jetbrains Fleet will be lightweight I would use that. Nowadays I prefer Intellij IDEA Ultimate for everything.
In general VS Code is good enough for web development but as soon as u start to do some refactoring or renaming or moving stuff around you see it falls apart, unlike webstorm which supports renaming/moving files with reference updates as well or when u delete sth it shows where it is used and what u want to do about that file, or peek definition which most of the times does not work in vs code, webstorm works always etc etc, so yeah fleet may not be a vs code killer but in case it offers features like webstorm it will be a good competitor.
They will actively scan your code and send it to servers so that they can "validate" if it's being used only for "personal" and "opensource" projects. Big no no if you ask me
I use sublime text when I want a fast text editor with limited capabilities. And with limited, I mean 80% of what vscode can do, fleet without smart mode competes with notepad
I'm incredibly bias to JetBrains (I could never go back to VSCode after using their IDEs) and even was in the fleet private beta... but I never really understood what it was going for. I still don't know what it's going for. VSCode seems to hit that sweet spot for small-medium projects. Hard to see what Fleet could bring to the table that VSCode doesn't hit... or even why they would need to. That said, I guess competition is always good. Doing full-stack, I'm usually editing by project. I have 0 issue with loading up PyCharm or Goland and Webstorm for the frontend. Sometimes partitioning editors is good. It's all the same UI/UX so really its just a difference of working in an IDE built for framework x, y or z.
Yeah I didn't get it either - if it's not intended to be free, why wouldn't I just use the already polished IntelliJ for general-purpose, or Webstorm for my node/JS projects (which I do now and use 24/7)? I don't see what it's adding, personally
@@json_bourne3812 Exactly. I've used it for text editing a few things... but if I need to just text edit I've always used VIM. It's always installed, comically lightweight compared to either VSCode or Fleet... I've probably built at least 100 different apps for clients over the years and haven't really run into a use case where the language specific IDEs weren't the best way to develop. I'm a full-stack (mostly backend tho) engineer, so I don't want to extrapolate to everyone's experience.
@@robswc If I need to quickly edit a single file locally, I'll literally go to Vim, or even something like Sublime before I'll open VSCode. Maybe Fleet can fit in somewhere for me once we see its full feature set, but for now, eh, I don't know
VSCode intellisense sucks. JB is much better. I'm gonna switch with no doubt if Fleet autocomplete will be better. 5 or 10 bucks a month is nothing for the whole IDE which is basically everything you need to edit code. For everyone who says paid IDE can't be vsc killer, look at other professional software. Did you see any photographer using GIMP instead of Photoshop, because its open source? Or video editing software, usually costs much more than 5 bucks/month. I'm pretty sure vsc killer should be "paid". Microsoft is a giant company now wants to own your code. They bought github, collected your code from the editor and then released Copilot, that's how they get paid, it's a much bigger business that you may think, doesn't look so "free" now.
I kinda like fleet. For me, it solve what I use vscode for: quick touch up on files not mounted in my intellij. I'm well aware that it is not replacing vscode if you have a full plugin suite and you are using vscode as your main editor.
Jokes apart, i feel very useful to combine Vim and VSCode's advantages through the vscode's vim plug-in. You get the quick text editing skills while having IDE features without wasting tons of hours to mess with standalone vim and its own configs and plugins
If Neovim plugins were as easy to install and configure as VSCode extensions I think it would pull a lot of users away, it's by far my favorite editing experience I just don't have time to tinker with my editor for hours when I should be doing my job and having a life
the vim direction is way to go for Devs. there are many flavours and especially rust ones with Lua plugins open up many possibilities. there will be options running along side fleet with similar offerings and open source ..
Why would *anyone* waste their precious time on earth solving problem that doesn't exist. Rarely there are products that deliver all you need and nothing you don't - VS Code is a (rare) example. Why would you experiment replacing it with something this new and fragile/half-baked. There are so many fascinating things to explore in a (programming) universe, next copycat IDE isn't one of those ;)
Really fair, comparing a product on it’s first day available to the public to an editor that has been out for years… a much more fair comparison would have been to look at vscode base functionality with fleet. As you said correctly: plugin support is coming to fleet and as soon as there is the ecosystem around it, it would be a fair comparison. Also there will be a paid solution, yes… but it’ll only give you features that you basically do not need if you’re not in a company environment, like real time pairing. As I said, I think your current view on fleet wasn’t really fair… maybe check for it again as soon as it has a real stable release
I don't like the dependency on Java. I don't like Java. Also Java's widget toolkit Swing is ugly and not modern. I don't know if this application uses Swing. All of JetBrain's IDEs look kinda ugly. They're okay though, but not great. I think JetBrain's best product is ReSharper plugin for Visual Studio.
Fleet currently uses twice the memory of VSCode and isn't any faster-at least on my machine. Also, it'll be hard for JetBrains to beat Microsoft in the game of TypeScript and Python integration. I know there's Pycharm but that's a bloated mess itself. But I love the fact that they're building a light weight editor that's not built with electron.
pycharms >> vscode from all of my experience. I even open up projects written by other people in vscode and immediately find errors they didn't catch just because the language server is more powerful. And the debugger....... lightyears ahead of vscode
Everyone crying here about missing features and paying for software, its hilarious. Its still just a *preview* and not even announced a year ago. It takes time to build good software and the already achived a lot. Their roadmap is still big and most of their language support isn't even finished yet. Comparing a preview with a 7 year old product doesn't really make sense to me. I also don't really understand why people complain about pricing. Creating such software is extremly expensive and doing it good even more. How should they pay for this? VSCode is backed by Microsoft, a trillion dollar company, they can easily pay for all this. JetBrains is extremly small compared to them. Most features like code completion, refactoring and are far superior than the VSCode counterpart and it improves the ux a lot. That's why I'm paying for them. If you cannot afford it, then ok no problem, but just don't complain about it. Someone has to develop it and put thousands of hours in Fleet and someone has to pay them because developing free software doesn't pay you food. Its just dumb to think everything should be free. Try to think a little bit more, thank you.
I tried using Fleet as my regular IDE for the time of the public preview, but the battery of my new mac book pro m1 pro is just falling like Dogecoin when I'm running fleet.
The best editor/IDE is the one with which you are familiar and has the functionalities or extensions that help with your workflow. vscode javascript/typescript/jsdoc integration is wonderful for most of my app needs, same with html/css. On my linux docker machine the docker extension/pane is my preferred way to monitor/debug dockers while in development. Vim is my go to in super tiny linus distros, sometimes nano. N++ is installed on all my machines just because that's the best text editor for me. Your experience may vary.
So depending what will be monetized ( Smart mode is a hot candidate here) either there will be just lightweight plugins or plugins will be behind a paywall too. The magic behind VScode is that its a "lightweight" editor with heavy plugins. And the plugins can be written by JS code monkeys. I am throwing my hat in the DOA ring.
I highly doubt its even targeted toward vscode users. Really fleet is designed for Jetbrains users who write in multiple programming languages. The text editing mode makes it use less memory and cpu than vscode, which is great when you are on the road or need to load the project up for a quick meeting, and the full featured mode (will) be great so you dont have to open pycharm + webstorm every time you edit your site.
Everything will be monetized. It will be subscription based. Which makes it worse than ST. And free version will snoop git log to decide if it'll cool enough,
VS Code feels like I am walking around with a slightly weighted vest on. Fleet seems like I might be walking around with a fat suit. Vim is as if I had someone kick out both my knees and dump a piano on my head.
I tested it extensively yesterday and also wrote a Medium article about it. In general it feels like a going-to-be-decent IDE to me. The Smart Mode On/Off feature is nice for someone like me who likes a proper IDE, but often also needs only a simple text editor with syntax highlighting. However, I had huge issues with the run configuration, which is definitely only half baked yet. I'm pretty sure JetBrains is going to fix these issues though, and that after some time fleet will be awesome. By the way, I also use PyCharm, CLion and WebStorm, and LOVE those products.
I tried fleet a while ago, even before it was public preview, and I did so with an open mind, but didn't meet my expectations back then. Now that it's public I hope it's a lot better. Will give it a try again anyway just for fun, but don't see myself moving to it any time soon. The massive ecosystem around vscose will be hard to match in the short term.
Wasn't my intention to upset you, maybe you work at Jetbrains building Fleet? Not sure why the strong feelings. I haven't done JS in ages, btw, and don't like it myself, either, though a ton of people do. VSCode is amazing for Dart/Flutter, Golang, Python, and many other languages, and I'm not even saying Fleet can't get there someday. I never knew an IDE could define the experience or level of programming anyone had. IntelliJ, vscode, fleet, atom, vim, whatever, has nothing to do with the kind of programmer you are. The 2 main reasons I like vscode are because I can do pretty much everything on it (except Java, it's still not good for huge projects, still need IntelliJ for that) and because it's very lightweight. It's just one set of keybindings you memorize and boost your productivity by 10x or more. In any case, judging is never a great idea. I might have 5x the experience you have, yet I'm not yelling at you or telling you to grow up. Hope you keep enjoying using Fleet.
i don't need that smart mode. just give me a one click gui package installer like Replit or Codesandbox that just work. i don't need to memorize or mow down the whole internet just to install an npm libraries. i'm tired of all of the packages inventing their own custom flag that will screw you if you forget to use it, or changing their way to install npm for no reason. my project got screwed by those npm installer countless time, it's not even funny
![NOSFERATU - Official Trailer [HD] - Only In Theaters December 25](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nulvWqYUM8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Something that is not free/open-source can't be called a VScode killer
You use vscodium to say this i hope
LOL
@@ioneocla6577 why?
@@baranoid visual studio code isn't open source. The base project is under mit license but the version distributed by Microsoft is proprietary with telemetry and stuff
Well then
Emacs is a vscode killer
But you must know elisp to configure it
That ending killed me. Was not prepared for that. Another great video!
Died of laughter at the office LMAO
how are you writing this comment
hey man, RIP bro🥺
@@turolretar using vim in the youtube comments
a not so subtle jab at vim evangelists that just won't stfu.
alpha vim user reporting for duty
Ignored?
The Find feature will revolutionize coding. No longer will you have to scan a file line by line to find what you're looking for.
I can make it even better. I will bind it to the command "CTRL + L", as in L stands for Locate.
I don't understand why this would revolutionize coding? Don't we have "Find" in all IDEs?
@@vighnesh153 Thats the joke
@@vighnesh153 it's sarcasm bro
Oh god. I am dumb. I deserve to get fired from my company.
The search feature killed me 😂
Find feature* 😒
Hi Mom
"Next gen"
Imagine if we had something that revolutuonary in the old and obsolete vscode
That sounds like a bug. Find is supposed to notify you if it found something and not hunt you down.
Would you like to share your experience and discuss with our team to make the product better. Here is my calendly.
/S
Fleet is a game-changer - for existing JetBrains users. Especially multi-lingual developers who find themselves switching between Rider, Webstorm and PyCharm for example. There is this strange cross-language intellisense in JetBrains IDEs that allow you to do smart JavaScript stuff in the non-Webstorm IDEs but that's only to accommodate full-stack development. I think the goal of fleet is certainly not to kill VS Code, it's to unify JetBrains IDEs into one frontend powered by the many language servers on offer by JetBrains.
Exactly!!
This is a very clever take
then what about webstorm?
But then where are the features of all of the other IDEs? I dont know man it does seem to me like they are going for something more minimalistic that their other products here...
@@1aboPLZ Webstorm still just better at javascript and always will be :)
2:47 "VS Code users are more concerned with how the editor looks when someone spies on their laptop in starbucks than intellisense" omg what a line lol
Underrated comment 😂😂😂
True tho, how many of the regular vscode users have not spent hours finding the best theme...
@@thoughte2432 And after spending hours, I wouldn't be completely satisfied with what I've chosen and regret why I spent those many hours.
@@thoughte2432I spent hours and finally chose "Activate UMBRA protocol" as my default theme for now
Can confirm (I'm a VS Code user)
Hopefully someone makes a VS Code plugin to copy that find feature. Tired of having to read my entire project line by line to find something.
one of the main reason I sticked with Sublime Text
lmao
CTRL + F ?
@@kousikambani4499 it's a joke bro
the duck (CTRL + F)
I cant deny, Fleet is a killer. Kills me when people fall for “new good, old bad”
The true best response
Yeah, that's why we should use intellij idea over VS Code (idea first release was 2001, vs code was 2015) :)
(Just an example of why that age argument isn't that good, nor is the inverse of it)
New shouldn't = bad, nor should Old = good, use what is best for you, I use IntelliJ IDEA not because it's been around for 20 years, I use it because it suits my needs and works better than VS Codium in 99% of uses in my experience with both
VIM wins
I see the other way around "old good, new bad"
I haven't found anything that can replace Vim
The idea of using vim in the VS Code terminal is the funniest thing to me
Vim users (like me): *IT'S MADNESS, IT'S BLASPHEMY!!!! APOLOGIZE!!!* 😂😆
What is the problem of using vim in vscode?
@@khalifaomani1242 is this a joke?
I do it unironically because I'm lazy to change EDITOR= to vs code and thus when I do git commit from console, it launches vim (I find that it's easier to type git commit in terminal than to switch tabs in vs code)
Git noobs do so all the time. ;)
The search feature is what makes it a VS Code killer
@mimo You missed the joke...
@mimo It's a joke. Most apps using text have searches. Notepad (plain notepad, not talking about ++) has a search feature.
@@caenir but notepad doesn't have regex search iirc
Just use ed. It has /. I can't believe they copied ed without giving proper credit. As usual. 😤
@@etopowertwon Ed is the standard text editor! ED! ED!! ED!!!
I use the vim extension for Vscode and now I’m a 10x developer, thanks uncle Jeff
same! i now look up vim commands 10x a minute 💪💪
i tried the extension. but i stopped to use it after i found it hard to copy/paste between the editor and other applications.
@@nickw656 yeah it's a pain. you have to be in normal mode to copy text, and insert mode to paste 🙄 I also use the vim clipboard register for larger blocks of text. "*y to copy, "*p to paste
@@nickw656 you can enable clipboard i guess? I'm pressing "yy" to copy single line and "y" for multi line while in visual mode
@@nickw656 the shortcut to copy to system clipboard is "+y
Finally someone heard us and implemented the search feature.
Now if only someone could let you replace the text you search without typing every time 🤔
@@francocarabajal9021 there is extension in vs for that since ever tho.
Thank you for taking a level-headed approach to this lol. I cannot believe all the absolutely explosive takes I've seen about this editor in the 24ish hours it has been available
To be fair, a lot of people have had access to the private preview as well
That's just creators trying to stay on top of the YT algorithm for you.
Fleet looks more like a replacement for jetbrains' own products. Could easily condense an ecosystem of half a dozen apps into one, making development easier for jetbrains in the process
Honestly that's what I thought it was going to be. Most of the current JetBrains IDEs are very similar, even using the same infrastructure (like shared plugins). There's really no need to have an IDE for every single technology, just do what VS is doing.
Unlikely, since they charge for the products individually
@@khatdubell Most people who go headfirst into the jetbrains ecosystem just by the complete pack.
Unpopular opinion, I like having different IDE's with different profiles for different languages. My window breakdown looks very different for node as it does for python. I *ALSO* like that they have the same core, so if I want to use a package.json as a launcher for ansible, nobody bats an eyelash.
I'm not sure how I feel about fleet, personally. I've only spent a little while with it so far.
I actually think Fireship missed this one a bit on Jetbrains' intent. Jetbrains is getting deeper and deeper into this whole Gateway ecosystem that they think will revolutionize everything. It definitely makes life easier to have a guaranteed homogenous dev environment without any sacrifice.
But Gateway is mediocre because it's ultimately an ugly amalgom of X-forwarding and a backloaded thin client on the IDE.
Fleet is thin-client forward. You name a remote environment (their preference is for you to use Space, obviously) and it does everything and provides a better experience.
Whether this will be a success or not, I think, depends on the next few iterations of Space. Right now, Space has some glaring issues, like a dev instance using up all your damn CPU time, and Jetbrains being either unwilling or just not yet ready to release seamless localization of the dev environment through a VM.
Ultimately I *DO* think they'll consider replacing their IDE's with Fleet if that proves to be the financially better option, but I don't think it's the plan right now. I'm a lifer paying for their "full package" every year because of all my various contracting gigs. I highly doubt they'd charge me nearly as much for Fleet. I've met no fewer than 100 people who sub to the same plan.
I swear I just searched about fleet vs vscode like 10 minutes ago
;)
Firebase hacking you
Search that again when fleet stops being public beta and actually releases 1.0
@@FikiCar0 yeah, sadly it won't be free
Not a fair comparison right? Your comparing a preview product to a free years going tool. Sounds like a not fair fight and Fleet still doing strong, imagine when it it actually ready to rumble. I might switch to it since it launches faster for me then vsc (prob cause you do not need 1000 plugins) and I like to have all tools in one place. We'll see where this is gonna end
I'll probably never move away from VS Code. But I trust JetBrains to make a good editor that will work great for people who are already in their ecosystem, and If I ever get a chance I would love to use it as well.
For the people calling it a VS Code killer, I think they have no clue what either of these software actually are.
Yeah Fleet is a killer. Battery killer. 10-15x higher energy impact than VS Code on my mac.
You only need the launcher for Fleet during the preview phase. They mentioned recently that that requirement will be removed once its out of open preview.
honestly tho that toolbox seems pretty cool
It may be a problem for windows users, where users love executing raw exes as setups, but it's a blessing for Linux users. Toolbox is far easier to use than manually unpacking the tar.gz from JetBrains. Updates are also a breeze, and everything JetBrains on the computer can be managed with one app.
@@saadisave hmm why dont more people use a tool like that for linux then?
I am also a Linux user and find the toolbox to be quite useful for managing jetbrians apps.
@@evryon1810 I always liked that it's optional and I think that's the correct approach to take for companies who offer a lot of different software products that are often, but not always, used alongside each other. I hate it when I just need one application from a company but have to install some launcher/manager anyway because that's the only way to install any of them.
It’s just shiny object syndrome.
VsCode is considered bloated by people who use terminal based text editors and swear everyone else needs to do the same.
VsCode is fine and honestly ideal for the majority of people.
If you're used to vim it looks bloated. If you're used to any JetBrains product it looks simplistic and light weight
My experience working on huge php project in vscode compared to phpstorm is pretty terrible. And the memory footprint after you add all the features phpstorm has is *huge*. My 16GB of ram was crying for help.
a text editor does not have to be written in electron.
it can really mess with a setup with only 8 gb ram.
JVM > NodeJS + Chromium
And yes, I do like to use some terminal based text editors.
It sounds like the majority of problems described here could be solved by just downloading more ram bro
that plot twist with the vim, actually laughed out loud.
Fleet will probably push Vscode to do better which is great for Vscode users. 😊
Still no Wayland suport.
My second project will be a full-blown ASCII/Extended ASCII IDE. It'll have the startup time of IntelliJ/CLion and the features of Notepad. Like any Jetbrains IDE, it'll require a special build systems to work decently, but you'll need to download and configure the correct plugins yourself with Lisp. Once you've successfully programmed the Lisp plugin, you'll be able to use my macro language to be able to customize the Mavel configuration language to compile your Java code to bytecode for the runtime to interpret it on the underlying virtual machine.
To help with the complexity of writing a statement, it'll make sure to show warnings long before you've completed typing your current word just so you know that you might be wrong. Also, since moving files around might also be confusing for your non-existing colleagues, it'll make sure to completely fail with any Intellisense so that you know that you have to start over from scratch.
Many think LTS is good, but this IDE will make sure to roll out new upgrades as soon we make a change that compiles. Even if it might break your project, it's still mostly worth it for the largest audience, since we've made the progress bar to feature Nyan cat.
Lastly, we made sure to fix all key configurations. Many standards have been made, but it felt reasonable to make a new standard that you could learn because it seemed better. If you take a week to learn them, then you'll be able to quit your program faster than you're able to say "VIM, Vi IMproved terminal text editor".
Loved it
I used it a bit a few months ago and didn't return. I LOVE some stuff from JetBrains (particularly their code formatting configuration and rules), but this needs a lot more work.
One thing though is we're comparing Fleet at day -200 to VS Code at day 2.7k. It took a while for VS Code to get more memory efficient, get all the plugins, etc... So as long as JetBrains keeps working on Fleet, I know it'll improve and get to a point where I'll want to try it again.
I was disappointed, but only because I'm used to getting so much value out of IntelliJ and its third party plugins. Fleet has a great architecture, but it is far too young for now.
That David Goggins bit had me belly lauging😂
STAY HARD MFER :D
I’ve honestly never had problems with vs code and in terms of performance it’s always been lightning fast for most languages and projects I’ve used it on.
settings.json and tasks.json, build.json will be the end of me. i switched to java an intellij coz 'it justs works'
That last part, I didn't expect that HAHAHA 😆
Wait, the editor has a search function?! Ingenious
I use Android Studio and IntelliJ on the regular. I know Fleet isn't for those who regularly use VSCode. It is for people like me who are usually working in a full blown IDE and occasionally have to edit JS or similar projects. I always find VSCode quite lacking in its default configuration and I don't use it enough to configure plugins. Fleet's smart mode is exactly what I need.
Woah, I can't believe they finally added hit feature "Find"
I definitely agree that they're going for a different audience.
As a Linux user as much as I do fat shame Electron apps, it has to be said that without it, those apps probably wouldn't have Linux releases, or at least some wouldn't.
Jetbrains has always gone for a different audience. The mentally deficient that think something is better because it's put behind a paywall. Considering how trash their products actually are. I wouldn't use them even if they were all free.
I always preferred JetBrains IDEs over VSCode. I gave a few week trial multiple times to VSCode through my career, but I always went back. I'm using only with cloud editors and as a notepad replacement.
So what's the general opinion on lapce as the next "VS Code killer"? That one also doesn't use Electron, but is fully open source and aims for speed, and supports plugins written in any language that compiles to WASI.
I used it before and it feels smooth, I reinstalled my os so I forgot to install it again lol
Lapce looks promising but they need to work on stability and improving UX, it's really janky in many aspects and has plenty of bugs
@@skejeton yes, its has bugs. Its in pre-alpha. You cant expect a fully polished product that is in pre-alpha. I think it could potentially compete with vscode
@@afunkymonk7107 true but that's exactly what makes it not a viable vscode replacement yet, sans the pre alpha label, implementation is what matters in the end. the new version is definitely better than the one I tried half a year ago though
@@skejeton VS Code also integrates well with WSL using VS Code Remote. This is a killer feature in my opinion since you can run a VS Code instance (its backend) on WSL, container, or even SSH, while the UI rendered on your machine.
David Goggins on VIM was the most hilarious, amazing thing ever!!!!
Completly True!!
VSCode will never die until and unless a contesting IDE comes in the market
*contesting FREE IDE
Find feature is revolutionary. Real out-of-the-box thinking there! Gone are the days when you had to scan a document line-by-line to find "hello world"
Damn that next gen find feature is definitely taking down VSC frfr
Don quote me on that, but I heard that in paid version you can search... ignoring the case! 🤯🤯🤯 Definitely worth the premium
People really expected Jetbrains to make a memory-light IDE? lol
The Real vscode killer is lapce. Made in native rust with gpu acceleration and a very easy to use plugin system
looks like neovim with mouse clicks. no thanks
@@okie9025 neovim already has decent mouse support in the terminal
I'll just use emacs thanks
@@chadcat7 the reason of why many people use vscode over neovim or emacs is because it's a plug and play experience. You don't need to mess with your config file or anything like that
@@chadcat7 99% of people don't use the mouse in the terminal for anything other than copying text
Maybe Lapce which is written in Rust will be next VS Code killer 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Always nice to get some VSCode love here after watching so much Primagen stuff lately.
It's pretty amazing to watch him fly around that thing but honestly, I just want to click on the things I want.
After a year of NeoVim, I checked VSCode again for fun. The arrow keys and the mouse were so soothing. It did feel less healthy, and I adopted a mentality that made me check the manual immediately like that's the obvious thing to do, but VSCode is so soothing.
Please, I will fix one small thing. IntelliJ IDEA is actually a complete platform that's made for everything. You can develop Java, JavaScript, Python, PHP, Rust, Scala, Kotlin etc.. in one IDE. PyCharm , WebStorm, PhpStorm and others are built on top of the IntelliJ itself. IntelliJ is built in Java and Kotlin also uses JVM, meaning it's going to eat memory, but that can be expected on JVM. Otherwise, really nice video :)
Hey Jeff, could you do a video explaining the Nim programming language in 100 seconds please?
That language should be more "marketered"!!
If it costs money, then it's already lost against VSCode. No contest
Indeed, even if it's 2x better in every way (cpu/memory/plugins/..), even then, most ppl would choose the free alternative which is perfectly adequate.
I mean... there are a great number of people who are paid to write code. I wouldn't write it off just because its non free.
It doesn’t cost money necessarily it’s partially open source the only way it would cost money is if you plan to use the cloud features and stuff
If the price is reasonable, then why not?
@@typingcat Because it won't be. It'll be a recurring monthly subscription and not enough people are going to pay for it when there's a perfectly good free option
memory allocation is not necessarily used by JVM. checking the task manager doesn't actually tell what is really used
Devs are just gearheads. We are all excited for shiny new tools, long before there exists a use case for them. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm testing Fleet now and... it's nice. Starts up pretty quick. I usually open VSC in the terminal with the "code ./directory" command and Fleet installed a "fleet ./directory" command to open a project automatically. Has similar start time. I like the UI and the shortcuts are actually familiar and not the god awful mess that Jetbrains has their customers to accustomed to.
I will say, in your IntelliJ screenshot, there's not actually that much going on; in fact there's less buttons than the Fleet screenshot before it. But I agree, Fleet looks sooooo much better. The homogonous colors alone are much more pleasant, Darkula looks very dated at this point. I adore the concept of how all editor addons like the file explorer, git integration, and terminal are all just tabs that can be moved between any of the 3 panels (actually 4 if you include the editor panel which you can shift tabs betew); I do wish VSC had that. Also underrated UI quality of life improvement: our screens are wider than they are tall. So let vertical panels go from top to bottom and shrink and grow the terminal at will (which is what Fleet does). Somebody really thought about that and I appreciate them for it. Also the preferences opening up in the editor panel as a tab is so much better. It appears that they also have a settings.json file but I can't figure out how to use it; it doesn't come prepopulated with anything even though I've modified preferences. But a JSON file that I can copy & paste is so much better than the exported settings.jar files that Jetbrains used to have; the security implications of that always scared the crap out of me.
But it's that indexing time that could be a real dealbreaker. I cannot understand why that takes so long in comparison VSC. But I hope VSC can learn a little bit from Fleet like Fleet has obviously learned from VSC.
Also I'm like 80% sure it's pronounced Sky-uh.
Once performance/indexing speeds improve and plugins/themes are added, fleet will be a real contender. In the first public preview, I doubt jetbrains really meant for anyone to start using fleet as a full-time ide, it's more of a "we're doing a thing" showcase imo
@@Anonymous4045 that's what it feels like but it does feel a little limited for how long the private beta period was was. The potential for me full timing this was way better when they first announced it. At this point? It's a bit of a long shot... but there's little things that I really really like about it.
It would be interesting to see a contendor that did something like forking VSC (or VSCodium) and make some real progressive changes to the UI in this direction. Like just making everything a tab container and everything into tabs. I started playing with VSC in ways I hadn't normally after trying Fleet and I see the potential that this behavior might be possible without much change. The terminal tabs can be dragged from the bottom right where they're declared (if you have multiple terminals open), into the main editing window, for instance.
As a student, the only thing I was looking forward to was the fact that people claimed that unlike vscode, Fleet would be more light weight. Which would be very useful for students like me who only have a laptop from 2019 with 8gigs of ram, since convincing your parents to buy you a new laptop tends to be *very* hard.
After using Fleet for the first time, however. I am utterly convinced we will never get a lightweight competitor of vscode.
2019 is old now 😖
I never got on the VScode bandwagon
I find it to be very annoying and lacks basic ass features and everything seems to explode all the time.
As a student I always had jetbrains stuff for free and that's what I used, it was overkill but it atleast my shit got done.
I'm really hopeful for this one
They're going to have to do a _lot_ of feature shoehorning if it's ever gonna stand half a chance of replacing VS Code and/or Nvim for me. Given I am one of the aforementioned poor people, a paid replacement for free tools I find utterly brilliant to use is always gonna be fighting uphill.
@@PravinDahal Oh that's definitely not the case, only IntelliJ IDEA and PyCharm have community editions. You can get the other ones for free by using the beta versions but those are very buggy.
@@SKBotNL yeah but they're also some of their most popular products. If some stars align I can see the same happening for fleet as there's definitely been a lot of hype around it. But yeah it'll be hard considering Microsoft doesn't rely on vscode as a business (even though it has telemetry) whole jetbrains main business is IDEs and stuff
I tested with the same project:
Pycharm - 1.6gb
VSCode - 550mb
Fleet - 2.8gb
I think they have a lot work to do before 'fleet' becoming a decent IDE, not just because of ram consuming, but the lack of resources and usability.
Btw I use a lot of jetbrains products.
yeah, this is a preview version. They’re still working on it, it isn’t like it’s fully blown released
My guess is that vscode is using webview2, while fleet is not
I am huge fan of jetbrains !! I use pycharm for my professional python. But for C++/C# I will always go for VS/VScode ❤️❤️.. But if jetbrains makes a ecosystem out of it's IDEs and tools, it will be a cool move.
Jetbrains normally provides previews only through its toolbox.
It is likely that the Toolbox will not be a requirement upon release.
It seems that Fleet will only require payment for exclusive features; this means it can still rival VSC if its non-exclusive features are as good as VSC.
Yeah but what happens if someone does a plugin that replaces the function that requires payment tho?
@@talesvinicius598 Since it seems to be about remote services, I don't think they can be replicated by free plugins.
Such features often require powerful servers which cost a lot of money.
That find feature tangent had me rolling
my fleet was only using about 800MB but as soon as you turn on smart mode it increased to several 3000 - 6000MB
Something worth mentioning, fleet does not yet support debugging on many languages, including typescript/Javascript and python.
That's... weird
Very well said! The next editor I'm rooting for is lapce. That one will probably stay a niche prouct for rust extremists like me though. It is already very promising, similar to VS Code but much lighter and faster and font rendering looks sharper I think.
VS Code's font rendering is perfectly good on macOS but always pissed me off on Windows... Chromium's font rendering is really unpleasant in general IMO as it's way too light compared to the actual font most of the time and there's no way to set it to greyscale if you prefer that. (I personally happen to be a big fan of greyscale font rendering.) Edge is a little bit better in this regard as it respects the user's ClearType contrast settings as set in the tuner, but Electron doesn't do this it seems.
@@luciascarlet Interesting, I always thought it would be rather slightly to bold and blurry, especially in dark mode. I'm using vs code mostly on linux though. Maybe it also depends on the font. I'm actually planing to get a higher DPI monitor mainly because text looks so much better thenñ
@@flyingsquirrel3271 Yeah, I also use a high DPI monitor (5K) on my Mac but Windows and sometimes Linux scaling are too fussy for me to really want to bother with on my PC so I use a 1440p monitor there. Linux font rendering is also a lot better in general though, including subpixel. It's specifically Windows's implementation of subpixel rendering that I really dislike, as it ends up looking oversharpened.
2:07 remember the old times when sex used to be a boolean. now its 64bit floating point smh
Nice one
We all agree that vs code will always be the best right?
Always is a pretty strong word
Yes
nope.
@@krazymeanie as long as it has a open community.
It's not the best even now
That fleet light theme almost knocked me out
I remember when VS Code was the new kid on the block. Atom and Sublime Text were fine but VS Code really did make the plugin ecosystem better. Still, Vim is better 😂
Yes, but I do think that VScode sets the golden standard for editors, even if it’s not THE best.
vimscode doesnt exist, it cant hurt you
vimscode: 3:40
Personally I've been using Rider as my main C# and my main Web development tool for years and I love it.
I'm not really sure if I'd even feel the desire to use Fleet... But I'm happy it exists
As a C# dev myself, I was excited when I heard about an JetBrains' Visual Studio alternative.
Once I heard Rider was a paid for product, I stopped caring about it, and never gave it a second thought.
Alternative, paid for IDE's is such a turn off.
Intellijidea is even inferiour to vscode, so we'll all be waiting. When a project is open source you can't beat it, usually, especially in this case because anyone can contribute, and I don't have to work for your company, and nor are all the apis and functions obfuscated, or always kept out of the loop in terms of changes.
How long do you think it will take for someone to make a Fleet extension that brings all those features to our beloved VS Code?
Me using Sublime Text since v2 and now v4 the latest version with new LSP models for code assist, would like to say FVCK Intellij IDEA.
Just change the product name to StupiJ IDEA.
The ONLY thing that has a remote chance of killing VSCode is something that is free and Open source. Otherwise its not happening.
100% the one thing that made me just close down Fleet and ignore it was the lack of VIM. I don't know how you can have a usable IDE that doesn't support it.
Just happy that a company from Prague is producing a worldwide-used product.
On Linux with Smart Mode disabled it's "only" around 700MB. In Smart Mode it takes up 2GB RAM for a WordPress + Vue Project
At this point it's pretty hard to beat VSCode. I'm mainly using it for typescript, and I'm using it pretty much since release. The amount of improvements, and polish that went into it over time will take a long time to catch up on.
VSCode support refactoring? I feel Intellij better in performance too. Maybe because VSCode is a Electron App. If Jetbrains Fleet will be lightweight I would use that. Nowadays I prefer Intellij IDEA Ultimate for everything.
The main issue for Fleet to take off is that it is absolutely proprietary.
I'll stick to neovim.
In general VS Code is good enough for web development but as soon as u start to do some refactoring or renaming or moving stuff around you see it falls apart, unlike webstorm which supports renaming/moving files with reference updates as well or when u delete sth it shows where it is used and what u want to do about that file, or peek definition which most of the times does not work in vs code, webstorm works always etc etc, so yeah fleet may not be a vs code killer but in case it offers features like webstorm it will be a good competitor.
I dont remember if it's a plugin, but vscode will also ask you if you want to update references when you rename/move a file
@@chy4e431 tried that in a vue js project and it screwed most of the files
They will actively scan your code and send it to servers so that they can "validate" if it's being used only for "personal" and "opensource" projects. Big no no if you ask me
Just like every new js framework will kill all other frameworks
I use sublime text when I want a fast text editor with limited capabilities. And with limited, I mean 80% of what vscode can do, fleet without smart mode competes with notepad
I'm incredibly bias to JetBrains (I could never go back to VSCode after using their IDEs) and even was in the fleet private beta... but I never really understood what it was going for. I still don't know what it's going for. VSCode seems to hit that sweet spot for small-medium projects. Hard to see what Fleet could bring to the table that VSCode doesn't hit... or even why they would need to. That said, I guess competition is always good.
Doing full-stack, I'm usually editing by project. I have 0 issue with loading up PyCharm or Goland and Webstorm for the frontend. Sometimes partitioning editors is good. It's all the same UI/UX so really its just a difference of working in an IDE built for framework x, y or z.
Yeah I didn't get it either - if it's not intended to be free, why wouldn't I just use the already polished IntelliJ for general-purpose, or Webstorm for my node/JS projects (which I do now and use 24/7)?
I don't see what it's adding, personally
@@json_bourne3812 Exactly. I've used it for text editing a few things... but if I need to just text edit I've always used VIM. It's always installed, comically lightweight compared to either VSCode or Fleet... I've probably built at least 100 different apps for clients over the years and haven't really run into a use case where the language specific IDEs weren't the best way to develop. I'm a full-stack (mostly backend tho) engineer, so I don't want to extrapolate to everyone's experience.
@@robswc If I need to quickly edit a single file locally, I'll literally go to Vim, or even something like Sublime before I'll open VSCode.
Maybe Fleet can fit in somewhere for me once we see its full feature set, but for now, eh, I don't know
VSCode intellisense sucks. JB is much better. I'm gonna switch with no doubt if Fleet autocomplete will be better. 5 or 10 bucks a month is nothing for the whole IDE which is basically everything you need to edit code. For everyone who says paid IDE can't be vsc killer, look at other professional software. Did you see any photographer using GIMP instead of Photoshop, because its open source? Or video editing software, usually costs much more than 5 bucks/month. I'm pretty sure vsc killer should be "paid".
Microsoft is a giant company now wants to own your code. They bought github, collected your code from the editor and then released Copilot, that's how they get paid, it's a much bigger business that you may think, doesn't look so "free" now.
I kinda like fleet. For me, it solve what I use vscode for: quick touch up on files not mounted in my intellij.
I'm well aware that it is not replacing vscode if you have a full plugin suite and you are using vscode as your main editor.
Emmm... somehow I feel you just wasted your time by creating this video..
Can't see any features or mind blown functionality..
Jokes apart, i feel very useful to combine Vim and VSCode's advantages through the vscode's vim plug-in. You get the quick text editing skills while having IDE features without wasting tons of hours to mess with standalone vim and its own configs and plugins
Mango's 1.19 bucks a piece?!?!? That's basically free! They usually aren't even that cheap even when they are on sale here in Norway.
If Neovim plugins were as easy to install and configure as VSCode extensions I think it would pull a lot of users away, it's by far my favorite editing experience I just don't have time to tinker with my editor for hours when I should be doing my job and having a life
the vim direction is way to go for Devs. there are many flavours and especially rust ones with Lua plugins open up many possibilities. there will be options running along side fleet with similar offerings and open source ..
Why would *anyone* waste their precious time on earth solving problem that doesn't exist. Rarely there are products that deliver all you need and nothing you don't - VS Code is a (rare) example. Why would you experiment replacing it with something this new and fragile/half-baked. There are so many fascinating things to explore in a (programming) universe, next copycat IDE isn't one of those ;)
Really fair, comparing a product on it’s first day available to the public to an editor that has been out for years… a much more fair comparison would have been to look at vscode base functionality with fleet.
As you said correctly: plugin support is coming to fleet and as soon as there is the ecosystem around it, it would be a fair comparison.
Also there will be a paid solution, yes… but it’ll only give you features that you basically do not need if you’re not in a company environment, like real time pairing.
As I said, I think your current view on fleet wasn’t really fair… maybe check for it again as soon as it has a real stable release
I don't like the dependency on Java. I don't like Java. Also Java's widget toolkit Swing is ugly and not modern. I don't know if this application uses Swing. All of JetBrain's IDEs look kinda ugly. They're okay though, but not great. I think JetBrain's best product is ReSharper plugin for Visual Studio.
Fleet currently uses twice the memory of VSCode and isn't any faster-at least on my machine. Also, it'll be hard for JetBrains to beat Microsoft in the game of TypeScript and Python integration. I know there's Pycharm but that's a bloated mess itself. But I love the fact that they're building a light weight editor that's not built with electron.
pycharms >> vscode from all of my experience. I even open up projects written by other people in vscode and immediately find errors they didn't catch just because the language server is more powerful. And the debugger....... lightyears ahead of vscode
Everyone crying here about missing features and paying for software, its hilarious.
Its still just a *preview* and not even announced a year ago. It takes time to build good software and the already achived a lot. Their roadmap is still big and most of their language support isn't even finished yet. Comparing a preview with a 7 year old product doesn't really make sense to me.
I also don't really understand why people complain about pricing. Creating such software is extremly expensive and doing it good even more. How should they pay for this? VSCode is backed by Microsoft, a trillion dollar company, they can easily pay for all this. JetBrains is extremly small compared to them.
Most features like code completion, refactoring and are far superior than the VSCode counterpart and it improves the ux a lot. That's why I'm paying for them. If you cannot afford it, then ok no problem, but just don't complain about it. Someone has to develop it and put thousands of hours in Fleet and someone has to pay them because developing free software doesn't pay you food. Its just dumb to think everything should be free.
Try to think a little bit more, thank you.
lapce will (eventually) be the real vscode killer. no electron + wasi extensions + built-in modal editing
I hope we get more good competition, I'll check out Lapce.
+1 on this. It also uses tree-sitter instead of slow regex, and its devs and community are doing a really good job this year
It takes a lot of RAM when you turn on the smart thing, and it can't replace copilot anyways...
I tried using Fleet as my regular IDE for the time of the public preview, but the battery of my new mac book pro m1 pro is just falling like Dogecoin when I'm running fleet.
00:59 proof fireship does not use Arch btw
The best editor/IDE is the one with which you are familiar and has the functionalities or extensions that help with your workflow.
vscode javascript/typescript/jsdoc integration is wonderful for most of my app needs, same with html/css.
On my linux docker machine the docker extension/pane is my preferred way to monitor/debug dockers while in development.
Vim is my go to in super tiny linus distros, sometimes nano.
N++ is installed on all my machines just because that's the best text editor for me.
Your experience may vary.
3gbs of ram for a modern IDE is the reason I use VIM, return to tradition
So depending what will be monetized ( Smart mode is a hot candidate here) either there will be just lightweight plugins or plugins will be behind a paywall too. The magic behind VScode is that its a "lightweight" editor with heavy plugins. And the plugins can be written by JS code monkeys. I am throwing my hat in the DOA ring.
I highly doubt its even targeted toward vscode users. Really fleet is designed for Jetbrains users who write in multiple programming languages.
The text editing mode makes it use less memory and cpu than vscode, which is great when you are on the road or need to load the project up for a quick meeting, and the full featured mode (will) be great so you dont have to open pycharm + webstorm every time you edit your site.
Everything will be monetized. It will be subscription based. Which makes it worse than ST. And free version will snoop git log to decide if it'll cool enough,
VS Code feels like I am walking around with a slightly weighted vest on. Fleet seems like I might be walking around with a fat suit. Vim is as if I had someone kick out both my knees and dump a piano on my head.
Only an IDE written in Rust can be better than VSCode
lapse + helix are on that podium.. there are few other rust vim flavours around too
I scrolled through comments to find this, which i was going to say same thing. Absolutely next-gen IDE will be written with Rust.
@@engingurelli6334 yup, there is no doubt in that.
VSCode is beyond awesome, but it has the performance limitations of being a JS software.
I tested it extensively yesterday and also wrote a Medium article about it.
In general it feels like a going-to-be-decent IDE to me. The Smart Mode On/Off feature is nice for someone like me who likes a proper IDE, but often also needs only a simple text editor with syntax highlighting. However, I had huge issues with the run configuration, which is definitely only half baked yet. I'm pretty sure JetBrains is going to fix these issues though, and that after some time fleet will be awesome.
By the way, I also use PyCharm, CLion and WebStorm, and LOVE those products.
Somehow you keep finding ways to making better and better videos every time!
It's just his opinion, you can use it to form yours or ignore it altogether, no? The choice is yours. That doesn't mean the video has less quality.
I tried fleet a while ago, even before it was public preview, and I did so with an open mind, but didn't meet my expectations back then. Now that it's public I hope it's a lot better. Will give it a try again anyway just for fun, but don't see myself moving to it any time soon. The massive ecosystem around vscose will be hard to match in the short term.
Wasn't my intention to upset you, maybe you work at Jetbrains building Fleet? Not sure why the strong feelings. I haven't done JS in ages, btw, and don't like it myself, either, though a ton of people do. VSCode is amazing for Dart/Flutter, Golang, Python, and many other languages, and I'm not even saying Fleet can't get there someday. I never knew an IDE could define the experience or level of programming anyone had. IntelliJ, vscode, fleet, atom, vim, whatever, has nothing to do with the kind of programmer you are. The 2 main reasons I like vscode are because I can do pretty much everything on it (except Java, it's still not good for huge projects, still need IntelliJ for that) and because it's very lightweight. It's just one set of keybindings you memorize and boost your productivity by 10x or more.
In any case, judging is never a great idea. I might have 5x the experience you have, yet I'm not yelling at you or telling you to grow up. Hope you keep enjoying using Fleet.
i don't need that smart mode.
just give me a one click gui package installer like Replit or Codesandbox that just work.
i don't need to memorize or mow down the whole internet just to install an npm libraries.
i'm tired of all of the packages inventing their own custom flag that will screw you if you forget to use it,
or changing their way to install npm for no reason.
my project got screwed by those npm installer countless time, it's not even funny